Ukrajina

[sumirprimus]

nad rovom mrtvi orci

[statixx]

Jeli bila neka reportaža o njima ili su u pitanju drugi otac i sin na frontu?

Ne znam, ali objavljeno je na više profila.

Orci lete u nebo.

[mishic]

Rat je puno složenija "igra" nego što to mnogi ovdje shvataju. Neko je ranije spominjao koliko vojnika je potrebno u pozadini da opskrbljuje jednog ofanzivca u borbi a o naoružavanju, privredi i svemu drugom što stoji iza borbenih jedinica da ne govorimo. Kada se spomene samo zbrinjavanje i liječenje ranjenika onome ko se u to razumije koža se naježi. Mnogi su prema ovome što pišu zaboravili i arkanovce i šešeljevce i vikend četnike i ruse, grke i da ne nabrajam... A sve i jedan oficir je bio uposlenik bivše JNA kroz različite modifikacije (da bi se sakrilo učešće Srbije) a to onda podrazumijeva i platu, osiguranje, brigu o porodici i još mnogo toga.

Ipak od svega ja hoću spomenuti dvije činjenice a to je kada imate odakle izvršiti popunu oružjem i municijom i pogonskim gorivom u ogromnoj ste prednosti u odnosu na onoga ko posjeda novodostignuti položaj sa 7 (sedam) metaka po borcu. Ali to razumiju samo oni koji imaju to iskustvo a ovo teoretisanje je šupljak koji uz sve ostalo zanemaruje saradnju agresorskih snaga i koordinaciju njihovih dejstava...

[statixx]

[agent_zero]

Šta je ovo, isto Afganistan?
Siverski Donjec

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Ovdje su linije nepripremljene, eno vidi se i krampa u jednom dijelu videa, kao da su rusi negdje napredovali prema Siversku, pa se ovo krpi linija.

Evo i geolokacija, iznad Lisičanska, kažu da je stari video:

[agent_zero]

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kontejner pun rutaljskih klošara uspješno razvaljen

Al se oni izvukoše.

[agent_zero]

Daj malo odvadite, daleko da umanjujem naš otpor, ali 30 milionska UkrajinA se borI protiv 120 milionske Rusije, ekvivalent bi bio borrba 2 milonskih Bošnjaka protiv 8 miliona Srba, a to SE NIJE DESILO, osim na pocetku rata, kada je npr. Uzički korpus prešao uDrinu i okupirao Višegrad, ja znam da godi egu Bošnjaka da su borili protiv JNA, ali mi smo se borili protiv vojske bosanskih Srba kojih je bilo 1,3 miliona, koji su naslijedili infrastrukuturu, opremu i komandnu strukturu JNA, ali u ratu u punom obimu nisu učestvovali Srbi iz Srbije, da je Srbija punim kapacitetom napala BIH sa svom svojom vojskom, kao što je Rusija Ukrajinu, budimo iskreni, druga bi se priča pričala

Onaj reče 140 miliona rusa. I uz daleko nepovoljniju geografiju za odbranu od BiH.

[agent_zero]

Srećom, pa blata nema.

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I ovako ih onda zaspu granatama.

[agent_zero]

i nema potrebe da poredimo nas i ukr rat u smislu omalovazavanja nit jednih niti drugih. oba rata su agresije i obje drzave su u borbi za opstanak, ali u drugim vremennskim i geopolitickim okolnostima. posteno i ljudski je skinut kapu i jednim i drugim. i tu stavit tacku. nas nasa rana vise boli njih njihova i tjt... nema potreba za antagoniznom, ko sto su neki na pocetku ne sagledavsi siru sliku u pocetku ovde prosipali, u smislu ko ih jbe nisu ni oni nas zalli. i na tom fonu prica, a ko ce plin placa? to je usko i neuko razmisljanje, i ide na mlin ruske propagande...
Dakle pozdrav domovini ,Slava Ukrajini

Tako je, svakom je njegov rat najgori, najteži...

Zato se i historija realnije sagledava sa određene vremenske distance.

[sumirprimus]

Zelenskyy has no choice but to ask his fighters to hold Bakhmut — for now
US generals say the Ukrainian president is right not to disengage from the meat-grinder of a battle.

BY JAMIE DETTMER
MARCH 10, 2023 4:00 AM CET
Jamie Dettmer is opinion editor at POLITICO Europe.

French emperor Napoleon Bonaparte was famously averse to retreating. “However skillfully effected a retreat may be, it always lessens the morale of an army,” he noted. “In a battle the enemy loses practically as much as you do; while in a retreat you lose and he does not.”

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy appears to be of like mind — over the course of the war, he was reluctant to pull out of the salt-mining town of Soledar earlier this year after a nearly six month-long fight, and he has now rejected calls to withdraw from an even more prolonged and ferocious fight in nearby Bakhmut.


There’s been some behind-the-scenes disquiet among the Ukrainian ranks about continuing with this almost 9-month-long battle at Bakhmut. And earlier this week, United States Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters that “if the Ukrainians decide to reposition, I wouldn’t view that as an operational or strategic setback.”

Russia, meanwhile, has been determined to record a victory at Bakhmut — located just 6 miles southwest of Soledar, which was overrun two months ago after Russia’s mercenary Wagner Group sacrificed thousands of its untrained fighters there.

So, for Ukraine, is Bakhmut really worth it? Or is Zelenskyy being Napoleon-like in his refusal to disengage from what appears to be a meat-grinder of a battle?

Bakhmut is the longest and bloodiest battle of the war so far, and it has seen Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin once again hurl his men — mostly recruited from Russian jails — into the maelstrom with a reckless abandon that’s shocked observers and seasoned fighters on both sides. Andrey Medvedev, a Russian defector who recently fled to Norway, told reporters last month that the former convicts were being used as cannon fodder at Bakhmut. “In my platoon, only three men out of 30 survived. We were then given more prisoners, and many of them also died,” he said.

But the Ukrainians acknowledge they’ve also been suffering significant casualties at Bakhmut, which Russia is coming ever closer to encircling. They claim Russia’s losing seven soldiers for each Ukrainian life lost — though NATO military officials put the ratio closer to 5-to-1.

Among those killed last week was Ukraine’s youngest battalion commander, 27-year-old Dmytro Kotsiubailo — a veteran who was awarded the Hero of Ukraine medal for his bravery after joining up to fight in the Donbas in 2014. One of his men, U.S. volunteer James Vasquez, tweeted: “This is a devastating loss to all our men. A prolific young leader and fearless respected battalion commander. Tomorrow we will go in with heavy hearts.”

Amid such losses, some analysts have questioned the tactical sense in fighting over the now wrecked town that once had a population of 70,000, arguing this has become more of a symbolic confrontation — one Ukraine could disengage from without risk to neighboring and more important towns. And some Western officials have been privately contending that Zelenskyy may have been better advised to withdraw from Bakhmut much sooner, in much the same way Russia made a tactical retreat in November — albeit, in their case, belatedly.

But this week, Zelenskyy defended his decision to keep the country’s forces fighting in the besieged town. In a television address and an interview with CNN, the leader said “this is tactical,” and emphasized that Ukraine’s top generals were united behind his decision. Zelenskyy’s office had also issued a statement making it clear he had the backing of the popular Valerii Zaluzhny, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and Oleksandr Syrskyi, the commander of Ukraine’s ground forces, who said the importance of holding the town was “only increasing.”

According to Zelenskyy, if Russia succeeds in finally capturing Bakhmut, they could go further. “They could go to Kramatorsk, they could go to Sloviansk, it would be open road for the Russians after Bakhmut to other towns in Ukraine, in the Donetsk direction,” he said. “That’s why our guys are standing there.”

He also included an additional reason for asking his troops to doggedly slog it out as well: “Russia needs at least some victory — a small victory — even by ruining everything in Bakhmut, just killing every civilian there,” he said. Adding that if Russia is able to “put their little flag” on top of the town, it would help “mobilize their society in order to create this idea they’re such a powerful army.”

This decision to hold for as long as possible in Bakhmut is now gaining support from some top U.S. generals too, who say Zelenskyy’s right to not order a retreat. But their thinking differs from Zelenskyy’s public reasoning.

“I think, at this moment, using Bakhmut to allow the Russians to impale themselves on it is the right course of action, given the extraordinary casualties that the Russians are taking,” retired general and former CIA Director David Petraeus told POLITICO.


Petraeus added that “the Russian troops in Bakhmut are not just Wagner conscripts and former felons. Some of Russia’s best troops are there as well. So, the Russians are committing an enormous amount of their resources on a very costly offensive, the outcome of which is still uncertain.”

“Obviously, this all hinges a bit on an assumption that the Russians don’t have inexhaustible manpower, and I think that’s the case right now,” he said. “For example, they literally only have one division that’s not already committed in battle. That’s a very small reserve to have available to exploit any battlefield success.”

Petraeus sees no chance that Russia will be able to turn its significantly larger national population to its military advantage anytime soon. “Russia’s next scheduled conscription cycle doesn’t start until April 1. It appears they are doing another what’s called ‘ghost conscription,’ a sort of irregular local draft once again. But that has not been particularly successful in the past,” he said. So, the big difference in kill-ratios — whether it’s 7-to-1 or 5-to-1 — does mean there are serious battlefield ramifications for Russia.

This meat-grinder argument is maybe one Zelenskyy can’t make explicit himself because, in a sense, Ukrainian lives are being “sacrificed.” Just this week the Ukrainian leader had said, “of course, we have to think about the lives of our military.” But this is a key reason, according to Petraeus, for continuing the fight at Bakhmut — Ukraine’s losses are justified by the much larger toll being taken by the Russian military.

That toll is especially high thanks to Russia’s infighting and lack of coordination, according to Mark Hertling, another retired U.S. general and former commander of the U.S. Army Europe and the Seventh U.S. Army. According to Hertling, the battle of Bakhmut is showing the lack of unity of command in the Russian forces, with various commanders seemingly at cross-purposes the whole time. “Soldiers thrown into a fight where there is no ‘unity of purpose’ suffer the most,” he tweeted.

“It is to Ukraine’s benefit to leverage the advantage the defense [at Bakhmut] gives them to inflict as many casualties as possible on Russia, before Russia can bring more forces to bear in a large offensive this spring,” said John Barranco, a U.S. Marine colonel. “Bakhmut itself will not strategically alter the course of the war significantly for either side, but every piece of ground Ukraine yields, gives Russia — a larger force — the opportunity to dig in and have the defensive advantage” when Ukrainians launch their own summer offensive, he added.

So, for now, Zelenskyy has little choice but to ask his doughty fighters to hold at Bakhmut. The cost is much higher for Russia.

ok iza odluke ukra da drze bahmut sada stize i validacija od strane likova poput petreusa i hartlinga.. valjda znaju sta pricaju..
o svemu pa i o kill ratiu..
objektivan nisam u vezi ovog rata ko i uvezi naseg totalno sam pristrasan, no opet uvijek cu prije vjerovat ukrima i amerima nego ijednom proruskom izvoru. nima nistane vjerujem ne uzimam ih u obzir, u jednacinu, ne interesuje me. samo klipovi bubova.

[lajkujMe]

Ovaj sistem ako ne bude cuvan od manjih PVO ce brzo biti unisten bojim se.
Ovo kad se upali sljasti mu radar kao sunce i vidi se s daleka

[agent_zero]

"DaVinci" bataljon, od onog heroja što je neki dan poginuo, nadam se da su ga dobro osvetili:



Geolokacija:



Puno su zapadno došli rusofašisti.

[sumirprimus]

Ovaj sistem ako ne bude cuvan od manjih PVO ce brzo biti unisten bojim se.
Ovo kad se upali sljasti mu radar kao sunce i vidi se s daleka

to se radi po sopu no sikiriki.u prstenima.

[F&N]

isto tako cinjenica je da srbija nikad nije presla drinu sa svojim regularnim jedinicama od brigade do divizije sta su vec imali i napali komplet granicom otvoreno.
uvijek je to bilo umotano u formi dobrovoljaca, loklanih milicija i jedinica.fakticki nasa 92ga je ukrajinska 2014ta i tu je ralzikau poredjenju sa ovim ratom iz 2022...

A sta je sa specijalnim jedinicama Legije, Niskih specijalaca, I ostalim specijalnim jedinicama kojima su pravljali ljudi poptu Simatovica isl. Logicno da nisu slali cijelu armiju koju su imali ali jesu kompletnu logistiku. Ljudi se su svakako imali na frontu.
U tom smislu mozemo reci da je trenutna vojska rusije kao vojska RSa. Dobrovoljci i mobiksi.

S druge strane Ukr je i 2014 imala svoju vojsku, kakva je takva je ali je njihova bila. Mi 92 osim milicije (nekompletne) i TO nismo imali nikakvu vojnu strukturu.

Druga stvar mi smo se borili od 93. na 2 fronta tako da opet je neuporedivo s Ukrainom. I ne bih ja rekao ni da je nama niti njima teze... Hejrojska je nasa borba koliko i Ukrainska.

[sumirprimus]

isto tako cinjenica je da srbija nikad nije presla drinu sa svojim regularnim jedinicama od brigade do divizije sta su vec imali i napali komplet granicom otvoreno.
uvijek je to bilo umotano u formi dobrovoljaca, loklanih milicija i jedinica.fakticki nasa 92ga je ukrajinska 2014ta i tu je ralzikau poredjenju sa ovim ratom iz 2022...

A sta je sa specijalnim jedinicama Legije, Niskih specijalaca, I ostalim specijalnim jedinicama kojima su pravljali ljudi poptu Simatovica isl. Logicno da nisu slali cijelu armiju koju su imali ali jesu kompletnu logistiku. Ljudi se su svakako imali na frontu.
U tom smislu mozemo reci da je trenutna vojska rusije kao vojska RSa. Dobrovoljci i mobiksi.

S druge strane Ukr je i 2014 imala svoju vojsku, kakva je takva je ali je njihova bila. Mi 92 osim milicije (nekompletne) i TO nismo imali nikakvu vojnu strukturu.

Druga stvar mi smo se borili od 93. na 2 fronta tako da opet je neuporedivo s Ukrainom. I ne bih ja rekao ni da je nama niti njima teze... Hejrojska je nasa borba koliko i Ukrainska.

dakle kao sto sam rekao nasa 1992 bi vise odgovarala njihovoj 2014tu po upotrebi "malih zelenih" logistickoj art podrsci finansiskoj i zamaskiranoj kroz lokalne jedinice, specijalce, dobrovoljce. ali drugo vrijeme i druge geopolticke okolnosti. vrs bi vise odgovoarala dnr vojsci 1 i 2 koruppusu. paralela prvi krajiski korpus. mali zeleni /nislije mada ne znam u kom obimu su oni kristeni realno, arkanovci, seseljevci, to su te... wagner, obrovovoljci. i slicno.
sami tim sto su ukri imali drzavu iako pod ruskim kisobranom od 1993 govori da su bili i vise drzava u trenutku kad su napadnuti odn kad su htjeli da se otrgnu iz ruskog zagralja mislim na 2014tu..
otvorene invazie srbijanske vojske u obimu u kom je rusija napala ukrajinu 2022 nije bilo daj to su istorijski fakti. ne umanjujem znacaj nase borbe za opstanak i drzavu, niti negiram ucesce srbije u agresiji valjda je to jasno. kraj od mene na ovu temu.

[agent_zero]

Zar nije više dosta offtopica i poređenja ratova?

Ovo je bitnije, izgleda da rusofašisti, kao što sam napisao, ipak i dalje napreduju sjeverozapadno (više zapadno) od Bahmuta:

[Dimu1927]

Zar nije više dosta offtopica i poređenja ratova?

Ovo je bitnije, izgleda da rusofašisti, kao što sam napisao, ipak i dalje napreduju sjeverozapadno (više zapadno) od Bahmuta:

napadaju i dalje nemaju kontrolu jos cim ih ovako skidaju. kako ono kazu contested area...

sjeverno od ceste khromove-bakhmut

Dropped pin
https://maps.app.goo.gl/A81DEhMezjAB81Kr6

[sumirprimus]

bogme opasno su poceli spominjat i dzordziju zadnjih par dana...
e zato dzordzijci i imaju procentualno najvise zrtava van ukr u ovom ratu...znaju sta njh ceka sa smecem..

[sumirprimus]

kme kme mi smo mocna ork armada mordora, a oni imaju vise dronova od nas, ubise nas, heljp kme

[agent_zero]

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bogme opasno su poceli spominjat i dzordziju zadnjih par dana...
e zato dzordzijci i imaju procentualno najvise zrtava van ukr u ovom ratu...znaju sta njh ceka sa smecem..

Jedna od prvih na listi za sud za ratne zločine.

Rijetko odvratno stvorenje.

[sumirprimus]

kako oni pricaju jedna od elitnijih jedinica ruskih kopnenih snaga.. opet ginu od proslog mjeseca nemilice...
sta je penta, sta imaju to i bacaju u meljaju ruje, ne stede nijednu jedinicu. pa da se kaze da ne idu punim gasom na ukre.. par stotina k mobilisanih mobiksa ih drzi u zivotu inace ne bi sad ni pricali vise o ratu vjerovatno.. otliko su nagrdjeni prosle godine u ukrajini, epsko istorijska pobjeda ukra.

[madner]

Uglavnom nema labavo.

[drndalo]

1x PVO Osa manje... 155mm ga je urnisala.

[drndalo]

Ups, dupli.

[drndalo]

U koju ovo statistiku ide...? Mornarica? Marinci? Pjesadija?