Ukrajina

[geralt]

Ma kakvi.

Treba herojski mahat zastavicom ispred rusa.

Pokusavam zamisliti Slavisu Vajnera Cicu i Hasana Brkica kako u ljeto '41. organizuju protestnu setnju Ferhadijom protiv njemacke okupacije.

[TDK-90]

Bosna i Srbija podrzavaju Rusiju i Putina a Kosovo Ukrajinu - ovakvo je misljenje prosjecnon stanovnika Njemacke danas opet svjedocim ovome..... nema sanse da im se pojasni sta i kako- samim tim jer je nas glas podrske Ukrajini tanak .... a i "glavesine" ne bi da se puno "talasa" jer ko zna sta od ovog moze biti

Mislim ni da u west Hercegovina nema nekih skupova podrske Ukrajini taman da se ne izaziva saveznik ( SNSD)


Podrska Ukrajini

[cLo]

A jbg, ovo je fakat moralna dilema: zrtvovati Ukrajinu ili riskirati svjetski rat? Sta da ti odgovorim, a da bude ispravno? Imas internet, gledas te uzase, sad zamisli to isto puta 100.

Bolje i svjetski rat, nego dopustiti da se ovo ponovi. Naredni put to moze biti BIH.

Stvarno mislis da ce poslije Putina u svijetu cvjetati lale? Uvijek se pojavi neki pacijent.

[pici]

Nazalost ocekivano. Protiv diktature se ne bori mirnim protestima i ostrim rijecima, vec s puskom u ruci. Nadam se da ce ostali "aktivisti" izvuci pouku.

o tome se vec danima trubi da je pod okupacijom pocela tortura, represija, hapsenja, ubistva, silovanja itd... negdje je pisalo da za Volnovakha, grad sjeverno od marijoplova uopste se nema informacija sta je sa civilima... tamo su oni iz donjecka i ceceni... bojim se da nije napravljen ratni zlocin...

[agnostic_front]

Dobro, vidio sam ti ranije postove, ti ne bi ništa poduzeo/la dok ti u vlastitom dvorištu ne zapuca.

A stara poslovica kaže, "dom se ne brani na kućnom pragu".

A jbg, ovo je fakat moralna dilema: zrtvovati Ukrajinu ili riskirati svjetski rat? Sta da ti odgovorim, a da bude ispravno? Imas internet, gledas te uzase, sad zamisli to isto puta 100.

A kako je to dilema? Ako se Ukrajina pusti niz vodu, kepec ce dati svoju rijec da nece nikog vise napadati?

[Nierika]

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Nazalost ocekivano. Protiv diktature se ne bori mirnim protestima i ostrim rijecima, vec s puskom u ruci. Nadam se da ce ostali "aktivisti" izvuci pouku.

Mislim da su Amerikanci upozoravali da Rusi prave listu za odstrel ranije još, na to me ove otmice podsjećaju.

[zigzag]

Ma kakvi.

Treba herojski mahat zastavicom ispred rusa.

Pokusavam zamisliti Slavisu Vajnera Cicu i Hasana Brkica kako u ljeto '41. organizuju protestnu setnju Ferhadijom protiv njemacke okupacije.

Zato kažem, da se ukrajinci ozbiljno dignu mogli bi ih zubima rastrgat.
Pogledajte liveuamap stranicu. I ove razvučene linije. Rusi uzimaju neko mjesto po dubini od bar 70 ili 100 kilometara. I ništa nisu osigurali okolo. A ovi mašu zastavicama i priča se o kako su svi ukrajinci pod oružjem angažovani. A pola juga kulira po kućama.

[Nierika]

o tome se vec danima trubi da je pod okupacijom pocela tortura, represija, hapsenja, ubistva, silovanja itd... negdje je pisalo da za Volnovakha, grad sjeverno od marijoplova uopste se nema informacija sta je sa civilima... tamo su oni iz donjecka i ceceni... bojim se da nije napravljen ratni zlocin...

I za Ivankiv sam pročitala da danima već nema informacija.

[geralt]

Nazalost ocekivano. Protiv diktature se ne bori mirnim protestima i ostrim rijecima, vec s puskom u ruci. Nadam se da ce ostali "aktivisti" izvuci pouku.

Mislim da su Amerikanci upozoravali da Rusi prave listu za odstrel ranije još, na to me ove otmice podsjećaju.

Znam, zato mi nije jasno zasto su ovi sjedili kuci i cekali da im dodju na vrata. Ko da niko nije historijsku knjigu u zivotu procitao. Ili su mislili da ih nece slavenska braca dirati.

[Nierika]

Mislim da su Amerikanci upozoravali da Rusi prave listu za odstrel ranije još, na to me ove otmice podsjećaju.

Znam, zato mi nije jasno zasto su ovi sjedili kuci i cekali da im dodju na vrata. Ko da niko nije historijsku knjigu u zivotu procitao. Ili su mislili da ih nece slavenska braca dirati.

Ne piše pod kojim su ih uvjetima uhvatili i odveli, možda i tokom borbe, ne znam.

[stetoskop]

Više je to od klika. Vjerovatno su vlasnici plaćeni da puste četničko-ustaško-rusofilsko orgijanje na portalu, mada ni bakirove turkofilske balije ne ostaju dužne. To treba biti svalkom jasno kad vidi masu plaćenih članaka, naročito onih u korist sda-ovaca.

Ma kakvi, nije to Kiks proda XY impresija i to treba prikazati. Što više komentara, više impresija. Nisu oni direktni promotori, vec jednostavno biznis logika, neka ide kako ide. Uradi se nesto malo, uklone oni najgori, a ostlai puste.

Iskreno i ja bih isto, ne bih glumio djevicu mariju, a drzava ladi jaja. Neka donese zakon i onda cemo ga poštovati, a ovako, sloboda govora

Na portalu je nemoguće biti normalan i ne pokupiti trajni ban. Dovoljno je samo napisati da je Hrvatska izvršila agresiju na BiH i gotov si. Zato i jeste pun komentara i pozitivnih lajkova onih koji podržavaju zločine.

[Lopez1981]

Naoružavaju se Ukrajinci

[mk ultra]

ne može ga odavde ni kran izvuci

jbt nije humano koliko su izgubuli tenkova

[stetoskop]

Pokusavam zamisliti Slavisu Vajnera Cicu i Hasana Brkica kako u ljeto '41. organizuju protestnu setnju Ferhadijom protiv njemacke okupacije.

Zato kažem, da se ukrajinci ozbiljno dignu mogli bi ih zubima rastrgat.
Pogledajte liveuamap stranicu. I ove razvučene linije. Rusi uzimaju neko mjesto po dubini od bar 70 ili 100 kilometara. I ništa nisu osigurali okolo. A ovi mašu zastavicama i priča se o kako su svi ukrajinci pod oružjem angažovani. A pola juga kulira po kućama.

Neki dan gledam dokumentarac o Hadžićima u doba agresije i govori jedan policajac kako su ljudi u kafićima sjedili i na TV-u gledali slike ubijenih Bošnjaka u Bijeljini i komentarisali kako je to daleko, neće to do nas doći.
Mi smo još puno manja država, ali eto tako je to bilo dok u jednom dijelu države ljudi normalno žive, u drugom dijelu ih ubijaju.
Na žalost ubrzo poslije toga Hadžići su doživjeli tešku sudbinu.

I meni stvarno nisu jasne ove razvučene linije, ali mi smo proživjeli to i sada malo iskusnije gledamo na svu tu situaciju.

[Haris.ba]

Neki dan gledam dokumentarac o Hadžićima u doba agresije i govori jedan policajac kako su ljudi u kafićima sjedili i na TV-u gledali slike ubijenih Bošnjaka u Bijeljini i komentarisali kako je to daleko, neće to do nas doći.
Mi smo još puno manja država, ali eto tako je to bilo dok u jednom dijelu države ljudi normalno žive, u drugom dijelu ih ubijaju.
Na žalost ubrzo poslije toga Hadžići su doživjeli tešku sudbinu.

I meni stvarno nisu jasne ove razvučene linije, ali mi smo proživjeli to i sada malo iskusnije gledamo na svu tu situaciju.

Bas tako za Bijeljinu. Raja mislila da ih loze.

Helem, ogromna je Ukraina zemlja. Ogromne su linije tenkovskih prodora. Ali, to znaci da treba i doci do tih prodiranja da bi se napala.

[Olaf1]

[Tesnjak_91]

i jedna dosadasnja rekapitulacija bajrinog rokanja po mrskom ruskom agresoru!davaj davaj

Ne znam dal' si vidio, možda će te zanimati

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https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3 ... 7xjKga2WQ

[Grean]

Pokusavam zamisliti Slavisu Vajnera Cicu i Hasana Brkica kako u ljeto '41. organizuju protestnu setnju Ferhadijom protiv njemacke okupacije.

Zato kažem, da se ukrajinci ozbiljno dignu mogli bi ih zubima rastrgat.
Pogledajte liveuamap stranicu. I ove razvučene linije. Rusi uzimaju neko mjesto po dubini od bar 70 ili 100 kilometara. I ništa nisu osigurali okolo. A ovi mašu zastavicama i priča se o kako su svi ukrajinci pod oružjem angažovani. A pola juga kulira po kućama.

Treba imati muda za to a lako je nama to govoriti, svi smo imali priliku pokazati to 92'.

Evo ako uzmemo Mauripolj, ni jedan bh grad nije pretrpio ovakva razaranja po onom sto se moze vidjeti. Mozda je jedino poredjenje Otes u kojem smo izdrzali cetiri dana uz ogromne gubitke kako vojne tako i civilne prije nego je pao.

Malo realnosti treba imati. Hajde kad ovo napisu Ameri, Englezi ili Svedjani koji nisu imali rat na svojoj teritoriji ali od nas se ocekuju realniji komentari.

[A_A_AKCIJA]

Kad si ruski agresor, onda ti dođe isto pukovnik i pokojnik.

[Naslovnica]

Zato kažem, da se ukrajinci ozbiljno dignu mogli bi ih zubima rastrgat.
Pogledajte liveuamap stranicu. I ove razvučene linije. Rusi uzimaju neko mjesto po dubini od bar 70 ili 100 kilometara. I ništa nisu osigurali okolo. A ovi mašu zastavicama i priča se o kako su svi ukrajinci pod oružjem angažovani. A pola juga kulira po kućama.

Neki dan gledam dokumentarac o Hadžićima u doba agresije i govori jedan policajac kako su ljudi u kafićima sjedili i na TV-u gledali slike ubijenih Bošnjaka u Bijeljini i komentarisali kako je to daleko, neće to do nas doći.
Mi smo još puno manja država, ali eto tako je to bilo dok u jednom dijelu države ljudi normalno žive, u drugom dijelu ih ubijaju.
Na žalost ubrzo poslije toga Hadžići su doživjeli tešku sudbinu.

I meni stvarno nisu jasne ove razvučene linije, ali mi smo proživjeli to i sada malo iskusnije gledamo na svu tu situaciju.

A nekoliko mjeseci prije toga desilo se i Ravno...

[karanana]

iskreno govoreci, ja ni bi smio ni na ove mirne proteste izaci, zato svaka cast ovim ljudima. ko je ukljucen u oruzane borbe nadam se da je napustio grad i da se grupisu i izvode akcije van grada jer trenutno posto je grad okupiran nema potrebe ni da se rizukuju zivoti i razaranja civila u samom gradu nego im nanositi stetu van grada ako je moguce.

[geralt]

Tamosnje trupe su bile predvidjene za originalni plan "docek cvijecem", i sad ih je previse komplikovano povuci odatle i raspodijeliti na druge dijelove fronta. To ne znaci da nisu opasni, jer vezu Ukrajince da se fokusiraju na odbranu Kijeva umjesto na istok i jug zemlje.

[stetoskop]

[Samprotivsviju]

Sta ce sada Putko, povuci vojsku sa drugih lokacija ili poslat nove jedinice, iako je ako se dobro sjecam svom narodu obecao da nece vise ljudi mobilizovati...trebati ce par dana da dodju sirijci, ako dolaze uopste

[JoseMujica]

America’s Hesitation Is Heartbreaking
As the leader of NATO and of the free world, the United States needs to think much bigger than it has thus far.

By Eliot A. Cohen

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“When you’re at war, you’re at war,” the saying goes, and if so, you have to accept the implications. So too in the present circumstance. The United States and its NATO allies are engaged in a proxy war with Russia. They are supplying thousands of munitions and hopefully doing much else—sharing intelligence, for example—with the intent of killing Russian soldiers. And because fighting is, as the military theorist Carl von Clausewitz said, “a trial of moral and physical forces through the medium of the latter,” we must face a fact: To break the will of Russia and free Ukraine from conquest and subjugation, many Russian soldiers have to flee, surrender, or die, and the more and faster the better.


Thus far the Biden administration has done an admirable job of winning the information war, mobilizing the NATO alliance, and imposing crippling (if not yet complete) sanctions on the Russian economy. It has, it appears, sped the delivery of some weapon systems (notably Javelin anti-tank missiles and Stinger man-portable surface-to-air missiles) to Ukrainian forces. But beyond those measures to prosecute this proxy war as a war, it is stumbling.

The recent dustup about a Polish proposal to hand MiG-29 fighter planes to the United States to then pass to Ukrainian forces, the deficit being made good by spare U.S. F-16 fighters to Poland, is a prime example of this. On March 6, Secretary of State Antony Blinken told Face the Nation:

That gets a green light. In fact, we’re talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if in fact they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians. What could we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they're handing over to the Ukrainians? We’re in very active discussions with them about that.

Two days later, the Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby said, “We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one … It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it.”

What followed were a set of petulant comments and leaks about how the United States had been blindsided by the Poles, that the planes would not do the Ukrainians much good, and that the proposed exchange would pose unacceptable escalatory risks.


Each of these criticisms was misplaced, and that is putting it kindly. More of the problem lies on the American rather than on the Polish side, it would appear, where the Department of State and the Department of Defense were not coordinated—the job of the National Security Council staff. For close observers of last summer’s Afghanistan fiasco, this foul-up was disturbingly familiar. When you are at war, you need to be disciplined in your decision making, and once again, the United States was not.

Whether the MiG-29s could be successfully operated by the Ukrainians (who have their own MiG-29s) with just a few weeks of familiarization is an unclear technical point. The Poles have just under 100 fighter aircraft, of which 28 are MiG-29s. They also have 48 F-16s. The swap, from that point of view, was not only doable but sensible: The Poles would be strengthened by the F-16s. But even if the Ukrainians would struggle to use the MiG-29s effectively, the point is that Ukraine is a friendly nation fighting for its life, and sometimes, in coalition war, you do things that make a statement and build morale even if they are not militarily optimal. The Allies sent convoys of equipment to the Soviet Union at horrendous cost during World War II, in order to keep Stalin in the war, for exactly this reason. And in the same vein, the snide remarks about uncontrollable Poles come from American officials whose border is not a front line with a war zone, and who have not been willing to take in refugees by the hundreds of thousands, let alone by the million. A wartime coalition leader has to act like one, reassuring besieged and risk-taking allies even if they are not always technically correct. Instead, American officials whinged.

But perhaps the most pernicious note here was the hand-wringing over escalation. On the face of it, that is an absurd notion. Javelins kill Russian soldiers. Stingers kill Russian pilots and soldiers. A MiG-29 is just one more weapon that would kill Russian pilots and soldiers. And having already hinted that the United States would supply more sophisticated surface-to-air weapons to Ukraine, the notion that transferring fighter planes would escalate the conflict is simply preposterous.


The American fear of escalation has been a repeated note throughout this conflict. But to the extent American leaders express that sentiment, or spread such notions to receptive reporters, they make matters worse, giving the Russians a psychological edge. The Russians can (and do) threaten to ratchet things up, knowing that the West will respond with increased anxiety rather than reciprocal menace. We have yet to see, for example, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin telling the world what a wretched hand the Russians are playing militarily, and how superior ours is—a message he is particularly fit to deliver.

As for the nuclear question: We should not signal to the Russians that they have a trump card they can always play to stop us from doing pretty much anything. Nuclear weapons are why the United States should refrain from attacking Russia directly, not why it should fear fighting Russians in a country they invaded. Only a few years ago, the United States Air Force killed Russian Wagner mercenaries by the hundreds in Syria; American and Russian pilots tangled in the skies over Korea and possibly Vietnam. Nuclear deterrence cuts both ways, and the Russian leadership knows it. Vladimir Putin and those around him are ill-informed but not mad, and the use of nuclear weapons would threaten their very survival.

When the Ukrainians are willing to spill their blood, seemingly without limit, in a wholly admirable cause, American hesitation is heartbreaking. New Hampshire license plates bear the state motto live free or die, attributed to the Revolutionary War General John Stark. The Ukrainians are acting on that belief, which previous generations of Americans acted upon as well.

And it is all completely unnecessary. In many ways, American decision makers are still acting on the basis of widespread prewar analysis of the Russian military that has proved utterly unjustified by events. The Russians do not have what is technically termed escalation dominance. NATO (and above all, American) air power could sweep the skies over Ukraine clear of Russian aircraft, and after a week or two of smashing Russian air defenses, devastate its ground forces. The Russian army is not advancing implacably; it is plagued by incompetence, poor supplies, corruption, terrible morale, bad tactics, and a cause in which its soldiers do not believe. Russian reserves are not like the Israeli reserves, the Finnish reserves, or for that matter the American National Guard: They are badly equipped and do not train. The truth is, with enough arms, the Ukrainians can break the invaders, and in some areas they have begun to do so.


It is not just the fact and the atmospherics of arms supply to Ukraine that matter now, but scale and urgency. The United States has said that it has begun shipping $200 million in aid. That sounds well enough, but when Javelin missiles cost in the low six figures each, that is less than it sounds—and at least an order of magnitude less than is necessary. As the leader of NATO and of the free world, the United States needs to think much bigger than it has thus far. The stream of arms going into Ukraine needs to be a flood.

This is a war of desperate importance not just to Europe but to international order and freedom everywhere. American officials need to rise to the moment. They cannot snipe on or off the record at allies, they cannot dodge the extent of what needs doing, and they most definitely cannot talk as though they are afraid of what Putin may do. That is the most ruinous error of all. They need to say, and say repeatedly, that a Russian war with NATO would only consummate the destruction that the Russian military is suffering at this very moment.

In the movie The Untouchables, the cop Jim Malone tells Eliot Ness what bringing down the gangster Al Capone is going to require: “You wanna know how to get Capone? Here’s how you get him. He pulls a knife; you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital; you send one of his to the morgue … Now, do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that?”

Putin and his subordinates are, in fact, less politicians than gangsters, and need to be treated as such. Instead of talk of off-ramps, for example, there should be promises of war-crimes trials (names included) for those who kidnap mayors, shoot at fleeing civilians, and target maternity hospitals; instead of worry about escalation, there should be promises of the eradication of the Russian army in Ukraine should it use chemical weapons. Instead of carefully titrated military aid, there should be a massive effort to arm people who know why they are fighting and are good at it.


This is all bloody and brutal stuff. But, to quote Clausewitz again, “If one side uses force without compunction, undeterred by the bloodshed it involves, while the other side refrains, the first will gain the upper hand.” We are dealing with an enemy that is vicious but weak, menacing but deeply fearful, and that is likely to crack long before our side does—if only we have the stomach for doing what needs to be done.

Eliot A. Cohen is a contributing writer at The Atlantic, a professor at The Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, and the Arleigh Burke chair in strategy at CSIS. From 2007 to 2009, he was the Counselor of the Department of State. He is the author most recently of The Big Stick: The Limits of Soft Power and the Necessity of Military Force.

Slava Ukraini!