koja crna kraljica i njeno carstvo. mozda je odsjedala u nekakvoj stali...RPM wrote:Više stotina vjernika, vojnika, policajaca, političara te kulturnih i javnih djelatnika, okupili su se jučer na starom gradu Bobovcu, gdje se obilježava 526. obljetnica od smrti posljednje bosanske kraljice Katarine...
U svojoj nadahnutoj propovijedi kardinal Puljić istaknuo je važnost ovog mjesta u povijesti Hrvata, te se još jednom zauzeo za mir i toleranciju među svim narodima, ali se malo kritički osvrnuo i na jedinstvo hrvatskog naroda u BiH.
http://www.bljesak.info/modules.php?nam ... &sid=12644
... sama kraljica Katarina je bila odgojena kao patarenka. Prije vjencanja presla je na katolicku vjeru i vjencala se sa Stjepanom Tomasem po katolickom obredu. Vjencanje je obavljeno po svoj prilici na Uzasasce na 26. maja/svibnja 1446. ... najglavnija oporucna odluka kraljice Katarine, kao zakonite predstavnice bosanskog kraljevstva, odnosi se upravo na kraljevinu Bosnu: ostavila je Svetoj stolici, ako se njezina djeca ne povrate na katolicku vjeru.
(Izvor: Bazilije Pandzic, "Bosanska Kraljica Katarina" Hrvatski Kalendar 1978 Str. 179-184)
... elem ne kontam (ma kontam ba) ... srednjevjekovna bosna bastini bosansko krstjanstvo a ne hrvatstvo, bastiniti katolicanstvo ne znaci hrvatstvo, primiti katolicanstvo ne znaci primiti hrvatstvo, cemu i do kada svojatanje (povjesti) bosne od strane onih koji su se dobrovoljno odrekli i odricu bosanstva ???
Bobovac postaje oltar domovine Hrvatima BiH ???
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seas of cheese
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#26 Re: Bobovac postaje oltar domovine Hrvatima BiH ???
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Prenj
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#27 Re: Bobovac postaje oltar domovine Hrvatima BiH ???
U vrijeme kada se cijela prica o Katarini desava tvoji vec uveliko slave 70+ godina pod Turcima ...seas of cheese wrote:koja crna kraljica i njeno carstvo. mozda je odsjedala u nekakvoj stali...
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#28 Re: Bobovac postaje oltar domovine Hrvatima BiH ???
moji? a tvoji? sta rade tvoji?Prenj wrote:U vrijeme kada se cijela prica o Katarini desava tvoji vec uveliko slave 70+ godina pod Turcima ...seas of cheese wrote:koja crna kraljica i njeno carstvo. mozda je odsjedala u nekakvoj stali...
ja sam mislio da smo svi bosanci, nasi....
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#29 Re: Bobovac postaje oltar domovine Hrvatima BiH ???
Zasto onda omalovazavanje zadnje bosanske kraljice?seas of cheese wrote:moji? a tvoji? sta rade tvoji?Prenj wrote:U vrijeme kada se cijela prica o Katarini desava tvoji vec uveliko slave 70+ godina pod Turcima ...seas of cheese wrote:koja crna kraljica i njeno carstvo. mozda je odsjedala u nekakvoj stali...
ja sam mislio da smo svi bosanci, nasi....
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#30 Re: Bobovac postaje oltar domovine Hrvatima BiH ???
zato sto je to cisto supljiranje.Prenj wrote:Zasto onda omalovazavanje zadnje bosanske kraljice?seas of cheese wrote:moji? a tvoji? sta rade tvoji?Prenj wrote: U vrijeme kada se cijela prica o Katarini desava tvoji vec uveliko slave 70+ godina pod Turcima ...
ja sam mislio da smo svi bosanci, nasi....
ona je bila kraljica a bobovac kraljevski grad otprilike onoliko koliko je i josip pejakovic visoki predstavnik.
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#33
ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...Prenj wrote:Stavrogine,
ako Bobovac to nije, gdje je onda bosanski kraljevski grad u XV stoljecu?
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#34
Kakvo god, to 'smetljiste' opstaje 70 godina dulje no smetljiste na istoku. A Jajce se drzi jos skoro 70 godina ... za to vrijeme tri pokoljenja istocnih susjeda vrijedno kuluce ...seas of cheese wrote:ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...Prenj wrote:Stavrogine,
ako Bobovac to nije, gdje je onda bosanski kraljevski grad u XV stoljecu?
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vodolija_33
- Posts: 2068
- Joined: 11/11/2003 00:00
- Location: Sarajevo
#35
A ja ti mišljenja, Allahselametseas of cheese wrote:ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...Prenj wrote:Stavrogine,
ako Bobovac to nije, gdje je onda bosanski kraljevski grad u XV stoljecu?
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#36
koliko si iskompleksiran srbofobijom, to nije normalno...Prenj wrote:Kakvo god, to 'smetljiste' opstaje 70 godina dulje no smetljiste na istoku. A Jajce se drzi jos skoro 70 godina ... za to vrijeme tri pokoljenja istocnih susjeda vrijedno kuluce ...seas of cheese wrote:ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...Prenj wrote:Stavrogine,
ako Bobovac to nije, gdje je onda bosanski kraljevski grad u XV stoljecu?
nego, sta ima veze to sto su oni "tada" vec 70 godina pod turcima?!
sta fali turcima?! toliko toga su ostavili u bosni, kako tursku upravu u srbiji mozes da vidis kao nesto lose po srbe, a da budes bosanski patriota?! ako nista, to bi trebala biti dobra stvar, jer je turska ostavila duboke korjene u bosni, a ako je srbija imala slicno iskustvo, utoliko su im i proslost i sudbina slicnije...
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RPM
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: 11/01/2004 00:00
#37
... srednjevjekovna bosna je imala 99 gradova, i prva kovala svoj novac od svih juznoslavenskih drzava ... bosanski gradovi su bili skromni kao i njeni stanovnici bosanki krstjani, minimalisti koji su prezirali ovozemaljsko materijalno sto je posljedica samog heretickog ucenja.seas of cheese wrote: ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...
... btw. seas of cheese jel' to najbolje sto znas? ...
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#38
da si malo putovala, vidila bi da sam u pravu.vodolija_33 wrote:A ja ti mišljenja, Allahselametseas of cheese wrote:ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...Prenj wrote:Stavrogine,
ako Bobovac to nije, gdje je onda bosanski kraljevski grad u XV stoljecu?Kako je bezze
nijedna zemlja u evropi ne moze se pohvaliti siromasnijom "kulturnom" ostavstinom od bosne. dzaba sad falsifikovanje i uvelicavanje proslosti koje nije bilo, ili je istoriski nebitna.
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#39
najbolje sto znam?!RPM wrote:... srednjevjekovna bosna je imala 99 gradova, i prva kovala svoj novac od svih juznoslavenskih drzava ... bosanski gradovi su bili skromni kao i njeni stanovnici bosanki krstjani, minimalisti koji su prezirali ovozemaljsko materijalno sto je posljedica samog heretickog ucenja.seas of cheese wrote: ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...
... btw. seas of cheese jel' to najbolje sto znas? ...
a ko je tebe informisao? tunjo filipovic? rusmir mahmutcehajic? ili neki novi kvaziintelektualac i politikant?
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#40
Za dalje studije o predmetu diskusije toplo preporucujem knjigu koju je napisao akademik Pavao Andjelic "Bobovac i Kraljeva Sutjeska, stolna mjesta bosanskih vladara u XIV i XV stoljeću", Veselin Masleša, Biblioteka Kulturno nasljeđe, Sarajevo 1973. koja je ponovo izdata ove godine.
Kvazi i nacional-istoricarima referentna literatura svakako nije potrebna. Oni zakljucke i inace stvaraju iz svog bolesnog mozga.
Kvazi i nacional-istoricarima referentna literatura svakako nije potrebna. Oni zakljucke i inace stvaraju iz svog bolesnog mozga.
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vodolija_33
- Posts: 2068
- Joined: 11/11/2003 00:00
- Location: Sarajevo
#42
Ali se zato može pohvalit' hajvanom, raznovrsnim.seas of cheese wrote:da si malo putovala, vidila bi da sam u pravu.vodolija_33 wrote:A ja ti mišljenja, Allahselametseas of cheese wrote: ama kakav bobovac, o cemu pricas, to je obicno smetiliste. i moldavija i somalija i tunguzija ima vece dvore i kraljevske gradove...Kako je bezze
nijedna zemlja u evropi ne moze se pohvaliti siromasnijom "kulturnom" ostavstinom od bosne. dzaba sad falsifikovanje i uvelicavanje proslosti koje nije bilo, ili je istoriski nebitna.
Last edited by vodolija_33 on 25/10/2004 16:29, edited 1 time in total.
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#43
zaboravi dobricu decko, idi na department za slavistiku ili eastern european studies na bilo koji respektovani univerzitet u svijetu (oxford, cambridge, yale, hrvard, stanford, sorbone...), i nadji mi katedru za bosanski jezik ili za bosansku istoriju - ne postoji.RPM wrote:seas of cheese wrote:
najbolje sto znam?!
a ko je tebe informisao? tunjo filipovic? rusmir mahmutcehajic? ili neki novi kvaziintelektualac i politikant?![]()
... no dobrica cosic and san company sigurno nisu ....![]()
... Prenj, slazem se s tobom ...
falsifikovana istorija nepostojeceg naroda nepostojeceg jezika ne priznaje se nigdje osim na sarajevskom univerzitetu - cija diploma, naravno, nigdje nije priznata.
zna se zasto.
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#44
pavao andjelic 1973... proustaska propaganda za vrijeme maspoka, nista neobicno. ni to da ti je ovo mala cinjenica promakla...Prenj wrote:Za dalje studije o predmetu diskusije toplo preporucujem knjigu koju je napisao akademik Pavao Andjelic "Bobovac i Kraljeva Sutjeska, stolna mjesta bosanskih vladara u XIV i XV stoljeću", Veselin Masleša, Biblioteka Kulturno nasljeđe, Sarajevo 1973. koja je ponovo izdata ove godine.
Kvazi i nacional-istoricarima referentna literatura svakako nije potrebna. Oni zakljucke i inace stvaraju iz svog bolesnog mozga.
- manijak1
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#45
i nadji mi katedru za bosanski jezik ili za bosansku istoriju - ne postoji.
Pa nisi ti tako lošzna se zasto.
Džaba i tebi podmetanja i laži i Velika Nemanjina
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#46
Evo kako najpoznatija enciklopedija svijeta - Britannica, opisuje taj dio bosanske istorije:seas of cheese wrote:zaboravi dobricu decko, idi na department za slavistiku ili eastern european studies na bilo koji respektovani univerzitet u svijetu (oxford, cambridge, yale, hrvard, stanford, sorbone...), i nadji mi katedru za bosanski jezik ili za bosansku istoriju - ne postoji.RPM wrote:seas of cheese wrote:
najbolje sto znam?!
a ko je tebe informisao? tunjo filipovic? rusmir mahmutcehajic? ili neki novi kvaziintelektualac i politikant?![]()
... no dobrica cosic and san company sigurno nisu ....![]()
... Prenj, slazem se s tobom ...
falsifikovana istorija nepostojeceg naroda nepostojeceg jezika ne priznaje se nigdje osim na sarajevskom univerzitetu - cija diploma, naravno, nigdje nije priznata.
zna se zasto.
Britannica wrote:A Bosnian state of some kind existed during most of the period from 1180 to 1463, despite periodic aggression from the neighbouring kingdom of Hungary, which maintained a theoretical claim to sovereignty over Bosnia. Bosnia enjoyed periods of power and independence, especially under three prominent rulers: Ban Kulin (1180-1204), Ban Stjepan Kotromanic (1322-53), and King Tvrtko I (1353-91). Under Kotromanic, Bosnia expanded southward, incorporating the principality of Hum (modern Herzegovina). During the reign of Tvrtko I, Bosnia expanded farther south and acquired a portion of the Dalmatian coast. For a brief period in the late 14th century, Bosnia was the most powerful state in the western Balkans, though the Greater Bosnia of Tvrtko's final decades was an exception: for most of the medieval period, Bosnia was mainly a landlocked state, isolated and protected by its impenetrable terrain.
The final decades of the medieval Bosnian state were troubled by civil war, Hungarian interference, and the threat of Turkish invasion. Turkish armies began raiding Serbia in the 1380s and crossed into Bosnian-ruled Hum (Herzegovina) in 1388; King Tvrtko I sent a large force to fight against them alongside the Serbian army at the Battle of Kosovo Polje in the following year. Tvrtko's successor, King Ostoja, struggled for possession of the crown against Tvrtko's illegitimate son, Tvrtko II, who was supported first by the Turks and then by the Hungarians after Ostoja's death. The nobleman Stefan Vukcic also engaged in tactical alliances against the Bosnian rulers, establishing his own rule over the territory of Hum and giving himself the title herceg (duke), from which the name Herzegovina is derived. Turkish forces captured an important part of central Bosnia in 1448, centred on the settlement of Vrhbosna, which they developed into the city of Sarajevo. In 1463 they conquered most of the rest of Bosnia proper, although parts of Herzegovina and some northern areas of Bosnia were taken over by Hungary and remained under Hungarian control until the 1520s. Vukcic and his son were gradually forced out of their domains, and the last fortress in Herzegovina fell to the Turks in 1482.
- manijak1
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#47
Maspok je bio okončan krajem '72 .proustaska propaganda za vrijeme maspoka pa nešto 73
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#48
Prenj wrote:Evo kako najpoznatija enciklopedija svijeta - Britannica, opisuje taj dio bosanske istorije:seas of cheese wrote:zaboravi dobricu decko, idi na department za slavistiku ili eastern european studies na bilo koji respektovani univerzitet u svijetu (oxford, cambridge, yale, hrvard, stanford, sorbone...), i nadji mi katedru za bosanski jezik ili za bosansku istoriju - ne postoji.RPM wrote:
... no dobrica cosic and san company sigurno nisu ....![]()
... Prenj, slazem se s tobom ...
falsifikovana istorija nepostojeceg naroda nepostojeceg jezika ne priznaje se nigdje osim na sarajevskom univerzitetu - cija diploma, naravno, nigdje nije priznata.
zna se zasto.Britannica wrote:A Bosnian state of some kind existed during most of the period from 1180 to 1463, despite periodic aggression from the neighbouring kingdom of Hungary, which maintained a theoretical claim to sovereignty over Bosnia. Bosnia enjoyed periods of power and independence, especially under three prominent rulers: Ban Kulin (1180-1204), Ban Stjepan Kotromanic (1322-53), and King Tvrtko I (1353-91). Under Kotromanic, Bosnia expanded southward, incorporating the principality of Hum (modern Herzegovina). During the reign of Tvrtko I, Bosnia expanded farther south and acquired a portion of the Dalmatian coast. For a brief period in the late 14th century, Bosnia was the most powerful state in the western Balkans, though the Greater Bosnia of Tvrtko's final decades was an exception: for most of the medieval period, Bosnia was mainly a landlocked state, isolated and protected by its impenetrable terrain.
The final decades of the medieval Bosnian state were troubled by civil war, Hungarian interference, and the threat of Turkish invasion. Turkish armies began raiding Serbia in the 1380s and crossed into Bosnian-ruled Hum (Herzegovina) in 1388; King Tvrtko I sent a large force to fight against them alongside the Serbian army at the Battle of Kosovo Polje in the following year. Tvrtko's successor, King Ostoja, struggled for possession of the crown against Tvrtko's illegitimate son, Tvrtko II, who was supported first by the Turks and then by the Hungarians after Ostoja's death. The nobleman Stefan Vukcic also engaged in tactical alliances against the Bosnian rulers, establishing his own rule over the territory of Hum and giving himself the title herceg (duke), from which the name Herzegovina is derived. Turkish forces captured an important part of central Bosnia in 1448, centred on the settlement of Vrhbosna, which they developed into the city of Sarajevo. In 1463 they conquered most of the rest of Bosnia proper, although parts of Herzegovina and some northern areas of Bosnia were taken over by Hungary and remained under Hungarian control until the 1520s. Vukcic and his son were gradually forced out of their domains, and the last fortress in Herzegovina fell to the Turks in 1482.
a evo kako katolicka enciklopedija tvrdi da u bosni odvajkada zive etnicki srbi (ili samo 98%).
Population
According to the census of 22 April 1895, Bosnia has 1,361,868 inhabitants and Herzegovina 229,168, giving a total population of 1,591,036. The number of persons to the square mile is small (about 80), less than that in any of the other Austrian crown provinces excepting Salzburg (about 70). This average does not vary much in the six districts (five in Bosnia, one in Herzegovina). The number of persons to the square mile in these districts is as follows: Doljna Tuzla, 106; Banjaluka, 96; Bihac, 91; Serajevo, 73, Mostar (Herzegovina), 65, Travnik, 62. There are 5,388 settlements, of which only 11 have more than 5,000 inhabitants, while 4,689 contain less 500 persons. Excluding some 30,000 Albanians living in the south-east, the Jews who emigrated in earlier times from Spain, a few Osmanli Turks, the merchants, officials. and Austrian troops, the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs. Although one in race, the people form in religious beliefs three sharply separated divisions: the Mohammedans, about 550,000 persons (35 per cent), Greek Schismatics, about 674,000 persons (43 per cent), and Catholics, about 334,000 persons (21.3 per cent). The last mentioned are chiefly peasants. The Mohammedans form the mass of the population in the region called the Krajina in the north-west, in the district of Serajevo and in the south-eastern part of the territory; the Greek Schismatics preponderate in the district of Banjaluka. The Catholics of the Latin Rite exceed the other two denominations only in the district of Travnik and in northern Herzegovina. There are in addition 8,000 Jews and 4,000 Protestants. Divided according to occupation 85 per cent of the population are farmers or wine-cultivators (1,385,291). There are 5,833 large estates, the owners of which are chiefly Mohammedans, 88,970 cultivators of land not their own (kmeten), 88,867 free peasants who own the land they till, and 22,625 peasants who own farming-land and also cultivate the land of others. The population of the towns is small.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm
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seas of cheese
- Posts: 211
- Joined: 01/10/2004 14:20
#50
logicno da knjiga ne moze biti izdata istog momenta, nego par mjeseci poslje.manijak1 wrote:Maspok je bio okončan krajem '72 .proustaska propaganda za vrijeme maspoka pa nešto 73
