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pinkzelena wrote:
Stani bona..kad sam rekla mogu svi osim jevreja...ocekivala sam da je dovoljno da to kaze 10ak ljudi... i da je zbog toga provjerena informacija.Nema to veze sa mojim misljenjem..Boze sacuvaj..
Ispostavilo se da je dezinformacija sto mi je drago i rjesen problem,nit sam ljuta,nit imam bilo kakvog razloga da se ljutim..nego mi smijesno da se na mene neko takari i postavlja mahalska "zivota ti tvojega" pitanja kao da sam JA to izjavila..
pinkzelena wrote:
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:
pinkzelena wrote:Mene zanima jel istina da jevrejin ne može nikad preći na Islam,kao ne prihvata mu se?
Čak ni kad pređe na pravoslavlje,pa na katoličanstvo,pa sa katoličanstva pokuša na Islam ne priznaje se,jer su jevreji proklet narod po Islamu!??
Zašto su prokleti? Može li mi to neko rastumačiti??
radi se o dezinofromaciji, na islam moze prec svako ko zeli.
a po islamu jesu proklet narod jer su preksili obecanja data Bogu i ubijali su Bozije poslanike.
Mogu svi,osim jevreja..provjerena informacija,zato me i interesuje detaljnije objašnjenje.
pinkzelena wrote:
Stani bona..kad sam rekla mogu svi osim jevreja...ocekivala sam da je dovoljno da to kaze 10ak ljudi... i da je zbog toga provjerena informacija.Nema to veze sa mojim misljenjem..Boze sacuvaj..
Ispostavilo se da je dezinformacija sto mi je drago i rjesen problem,nit sam ljuta,nit imam bilo kakvog razloga da se ljutim..nego mi smijesno da se na mene neko takari i postavlja mahalska "zivota ti tvojega" pitanja kao da sam JA to izjavila..
pinkzelena wrote:
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:
radi se o dezinofromaciji, na islam moze prec svako ko zeli.
a po islamu jesu proklet narod jer su preksili obecanja data Bogu i ubijali su Bozije poslanike.
Mogu svi,osim jevreja..provjerena informacija,zato me i interesuje detaljnije objašnjenje.
hahahahahhaha! netko je napokon iznio sustinu stvari!
Last edited by Leonid Breznjev on 05/08/2007 02:46, edited 1 time in total.
pinkzelena wrote:
Stani bona..kad sam rekla mogu svi osim jevreja...ocekivala sam da je dovoljno da to kaze 10ak ljudi... i da je zbog toga provjerena informacija.Nema to veze sa mojim misljenjem..Boze sacuvaj..
Ispostavilo se da je dezinformacija sto mi je drago i rjesen problem,nit sam ljuta,nit imam bilo kakvog razloga da se ljutim..nego mi smijesno da se na mene neko takari i postavlja mahalska "zivota ti tvojega" pitanja kao da sam JA to izjavila..
pinkzelena wrote:
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:
radi se o dezinofromaciji, na islam moze prec svako ko zeli.
a po islamu jesu proklet narod jer su preksili obecanja data Bogu i ubijali su Bozije poslanike.
Mogu svi,osim jevreja..provjerena informacija,zato me i interesuje detaljnije objašnjenje.
I postira "plakat" osoba koja je IDIOT od dana svoje registracije....
Ovo ti je neko poslao na PP???
pinkzelena wrote:
Stani bona..kad sam rekla mogu svi osim jevreja...ocekivala sam da je dovoljno da to kaze 10ak ljudi... i da je zbog toga provjerena informacija.Nema to veze sa mojim misljenjem..Boze sacuvaj..
Ispostavilo se da je dezinformacija sto mi je drago i rjesen problem,nit sam ljuta,nit imam bilo kakvog razloga da se ljutim..nego mi smijesno da se na mene neko takari i postavlja mahalska "zivota ti tvojega" pitanja kao da sam JA to izjavila..
pinkzelena wrote:
Mogu svi,osim jevreja..provjerena informacija,zato me i interesuje detaljnije objašnjenje.
I postira "plakat" osoba koja je IDIOT od dana svoje registracije....
Ovo ti je neko poslao na PP???
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:1.Jel ima neko da mi objasni zasto su Jevreji izabran narod po Bibliji i da mi da tacne navode?
Zasto recimo Inuiti(Eskimi) nisu izabran narod, zasto bas Jevreji?
P.S. ZABOG OSJETLJIVOSTI MOLIM POSTOVE SAMO U VEZI TEME
Jevreji su bili "izabrani da sire vjeru u jednog boga" sto mozes reci i da je pravo jer su mozda prvi monoteisti.... Cionisti pokusavaju da utrpaju ljudima u glavu verziju koja samo kaze "izabrani narod".
bosmen wrote:
Taj svoj izvor i tvrdnju reci nekom od jevreja pa nek ti ga prokomentarise.
Nije dovoljno samo citati nego i procitati.
A to drugo sto tvrdis da izjednacavam malo si pobrkala.
Samo povlacim paralelu nekad i sad.
I jos kad smo kod jevreja,interesantno kako se javljas samo na teme o njima.Ili ja ne primjecujem komentare na drugim temama.A mozda i sto nemsa drugih izvora osim....
Al nije nivazno....
Moj izvor mosez slobodno pokazati bilo kojem jevreju da ga komentarise... kol'ko god hoce. Jer Pentateuk = Tora = pet Mojsijevih knjiga. Ali ti to natavno vec znas - cim tako pises
Kako savremeni jevreji tumace svoje knjige - do njih je. Sto se tice citanja knjiga o religijama - mislim da ih nisi vidio onoliko koliko sam ih ja procitala, te svoja filozofiranja o kvalitetu moga citanja ostavi za nekog drugog.
Paralele - neparalele, ukoliko zelis biti ispravno shvacen, izrazavaj se precizno. To se obicno (ukoliko se ne savlada ranije - urodjenom inteligencijom) nauci u srednjoj skoli.
A to sto ti je interesantno - slobodno pitaj...mojne insinuacija...ne lezi ti...
bosmen wrote:
Taj svoj izvor i tvrdnju reci nekom od jevreja pa nek ti ga prokomentarise.
Nije dovoljno samo citati nego i procitati.
A to drugo sto tvrdis da izjednacavam malo si pobrkala.
Samo povlacim paralelu nekad i sad.
I jos kad smo kod jevreja,interesantno kako se javljas samo na teme o njima.Ili ja ne primjecujem komentare na drugim temama.A mozda i sto nemsa drugih izvora osim....
Al nije nivazno....
Moj izvor mosez slobodno pokazati bilo kojem jevreju da ga komentarise... kol'ko god hoce. Jer Pentateuk = Tora = pet Mojsijevih knjiga. Ali ti to natavno vec znas - cim tako pises
Kako savremeni jevreji tumace svoje knjige - do njih je. Sto se tice citanja knjiga o religijama - mislim da ih nisi vidio onoliko koliko sam ih ja procitala, te svoja filozofiranja o kvalitetu moga citanja ostavi za nekog drugog.
Paralele - neparalele, ukoliko zelis biti ispravno shvacen, izrazavaj se precizno. To se obicno (ukoliko se ne savlada ranije - urodjenom inteligencijom) nauci u srednjoj skoli.
A to sto ti je interesantno - slobodno pitaj...mojne insinuacija...ne lezi ti...
Naravno hvalisanjem i pametovanjem se sve rijesi
Ja nisam komentarisao niti sam tebi rekao da komentarises izvor nego tvrdnju iz zvora da Bog nije jedini.
Kazes savremeni jevreji?
1+1 je uvjek bilo 2,ako stoji da nije jedini onda stoji ili da jeste,nevazno.
Time si se diskvalificirala odmah,jer ocigledno da nisi jedna od tih tumaca.Ili mozda jesi?
A to koliko si ti knjiga procitala to je tvoj problem(Ocito problem) ne moj
Insinuacija sto se tice,nesto ih vise kod tebe primjetih
Posto ja nisam procitao knjiga kao ti,ja sad odoh citat a ti to shvati kao nedostatak argumenata za ovu diskusiju,
Mada ne bi bilo lose da i ti jos sta procitas,nije na odmet.MOzda pomogne
Shalom
K'o sto se da vidjeti - ja ne insinuiram, ja ti lijepo i otvoreno rekoh da mislim da si rasista....
A sta si ti htio insinuirati tvojom opaskom o mom javljanju na iskljucivo 'jevrejske teme' kao i o mom jedinom izvoru (valjda ti moj nick nije bio dovoljan pokazatelj, pa se jos nesto i dvoumis) - uglavnom potvrdjuje moje misljenje...
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:1.Jel ima neko da mi objasni zasto su Jevreji izabran narod po Bibliji i da mi da tacne navode?
Zasto recimo Inuiti(Eskimi) nisu izabran narod, zasto bas Jevreji?
P.S. ZABOG OSJETLJIVOSTI MOLIM POSTOVE SAMO U VEZI TEME
pogledaj toru a ne bibliju... i samo ce ti sa kasti
ne znam, nisam jos procitao ovu temu od pocetka do kraja, a trenutno i nemam bas mnogo vremena i nisam siguran koliko dugo cu pisati, te cu prvo reci nesto sto je mozda netko vec zakljucio: odgovor "pogledaj toru a ne bibliju" je ne samo neispravan vec vodi i neispravnim zakljuccima. zasto? zato sto je TORA dio BIBLIJE! Tora je ustvari prvih pet knjiga u Starom Zavjetu (tzv. 5 knjiga Mojsijevih).
dalje, tu se navodi da je Bog pozvao Abrahama da izadje iz grada Ura (Mezopotamija, danasnji Irak) i ide u 'zemlju koju ce mu Bog pokazati'. Abraham se tako nastanio u danasnjoj Palestini/Izraelu te se zbog toga taj predio svijeta naziva i "Obecana zemlja".
osim toga, Abrahamu je bio obecan sin od koga ce postati "narod veliki", tj. i taj narod ce biti "izabrani narod". tu sad ima jedna stvar u koju ja trenutno ne bih dublje ulazio, jedan razlog je sto je to teoloski problem, a drugi sto zahtijeva vise vremena za pisanje i objasnjavanje kojeg ja trenutno nemam.
dakle, Bog je Abrahamu obecao sina, ali je on je on i ostario a on i njegova zena Sara jos uvijek nisu imali djece, tako da je Sara pokusala "pomoci" Bogu da on ispuni svoj zavjet, i to na taj nacin sto je (na njen prijedlog) dozvolila Abrahamu da spava s njenom sluzavkom/robinjom Agarom i da joj ona rodi dijete koje bi bilo njeno. po mojim saznanjima, takvo sto je bio obicaj u nekim narodima tadasnjeg svijeta, kako bi zena nerotkinja, odnosno njena familija mogla ipak imati nasljednika.
i tako se i desilo. Abraham je spavao sa Agarom i ona mu je rodila sina Ishmaela. medjutim, prema zapisanom izvjestaju, Bog je rekao da to nije bio njegov plan, premda ce i od Ishmaela nastati velik narod, njegova namjera je bila iskusati Abrahamovu vjeru da je Bog kadar uciniti i ono sto covjeku izgleda nemoguce, tako da je Bog ucinio da konacno Abraham negdje u dobi od 100 godina i Sara u dobi od 90 godina dobiju sina koji je dobio ime Izak.
e sad, od Izaka su nastali Zidovi/Jevreji (Izak je bio otac Jakova, koji je dobio ime Izrael), a od Ishmaela su nastali Arapi, koji su od samog pocetka zivjeli u pustinji, jer je i Ishmael sa svojom majkom zavrsio u pustinji. samo o ovom detalju moglo bi se jos dosta toga pricati. ja cu se ipak zadrzati samo na jos nekoliko detalja.
Zidovi/Jevreji su tako postali "izabrani narod" koji je trebao okolnim narodima, tj. svijetu (koji je vec postao mnogobozacki) pokazati pravog Boga, koji je jedan i jedini Bog, a svi ostali "bogovi" su bogovi. nadam se da razlikujete sto zelim reci upotrebom malog i velikog slova, te navodnika.
Bog postoji ILI ne postoji. ako postoji, onda postoji samo jedan pravi Bog, jer ako postoje bogovi, onda nijedan od njih nije Bog, vec neki "bogici". Jevreji su trebali svijetu obznaniti pravog i jedinog Boga, onakvog kako se On otkrio. medjutim, Jevreji su podbacili, jer su jedinog Boga ucinili "svojim Bogom", zatvorili su se i nisu ucinili ono sto su trebali uciniti. da su Jevreji ucinili ono sto su bili duzni, nikada do pojave krscanstva ne bi ni trebalo doci. Isus Krist i njegovi sljedbenici su se samo nadovezali na prijasnju objavu Boga, ali i pokazali da Jevreji vise nisu "izabran narod" (citati vise o tome u knjigama Novog zavjeta, drugi dio Biblije - o zivotu i radu Isusa Krista i njegovih ucenika/apostola). ako postoji Bog i ako je On stvorio prve ljude sigurno je to ucinio s odredjenom namjerom. pitanje je da li su ljudi ispunili njegovu namjeru.
cinjenica je i to da ni jevreji a ni krscani nisu ostvarili sve sto su trebali, tako da bi se tu moglo postaviti jos dosta pitanja. cini mi se da je upravo iz tog razloga i otvorena ova tema, jer tako dolazimo do 7. stoljeca A.D. i do pojave Muhameda i islama. medjutim, s pojavom islama nije doslo do nestanka krscanstva (premda je u 11. stoljecu doslo do razdiobe na istocnu i zapadnu crkvu, tj. na katolicku i pravoslavnu/otodoksnu crkvu), a negdje u 15/16 stoljecu (znakovi jos ranije) dolazi i do reformacije i pojave novih pojedinaca, grupa i crkava koje su isticale da oni drze "pravu vjeru" u jednog Boga. koliko je to stvarno tako vrijedno je istraziti.
ovdje cu sad zavrsiti, jer vjerujem da je netko o tome na ovoj temi sigurno nesto vec pisao (nazalost ja nisam procitao vise od prve stranice), ali cu se njoj vratiti kasnije kad budem u mogucnosti.
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:1.Jel ima neko da mi objasni zasto su Jevreji izabran narod po Bibliji i da mi da tacne navode?
Zasto recimo Inuiti(Eskimi) nisu izabran narod, zasto bas Jevreji?
P.S. ZABOG OSJETLJIVOSTI MOLIM POSTOVE SAMO U VEZI TEME
pogledaj toru a ne bibliju... i samo ce ti sa kasti
ne znam, nisam jos procitao ovu temu od pocetka do kraja, a trenutno i nemam bas mnogo vremena i nisam siguran koliko dugo cu pisati, te cu prvo reci nesto sto je mozda netko vec zakljucio: odgovor "pogledaj toru a ne bibliju" je ne samo neispravan vec vodi i neispravnim zakljuccima. zasto? zato sto je TORA dio BIBLIJE! Tora je ustvari prvih pet knjiga u Starom Zavjetu (tzv. 5 knjiga Mojsijevih).
pa dalje sam objasnila sta je dio cega... gornje je napisano iz odredjene perspektive (da ne kazem lijenosti) jer ovdje gdje zivim se idiomski cesto samo za novi zavjet kaze biblija, valjda da se naglasi hriscanski aspekt... a za stari zavjet se posebno kaze stari zavjet, a prvih pet knjiga tora... mada je svakako stari + novi zavjet = biblija, kao sto rekoh post kasnije...
WizzardFromBOZ wrote:
ne znam, nisam jos procitao ovu temu od pocetka do kraja, a trenutno i nemam bas mnogo vremena i nisam siguran koliko dugo cu pisati, te cu prvo reci nesto sto je mozda netko vec zakljucio: odgovor "pogledaj toru a ne bibliju" je ne samo neispravan vec vodi i neispravnim zakljuccima. zasto? zato sto je TORA dio BIBLIJE! Tora je ustvari prvih pet knjiga u Starom Zavjetu (tzv. 5 knjiga Mojsijevih).
dalje, tu se navodi da je Bog pozvao Abrahama da izadje iz grada Ura (Mezopotamija, danasnji Irak) i ide u 'zemlju koju ce mu Bog pokazati'. Abraham se tako nastanio u danasnjoj Palestini/Izraelu te se zbog toga taj predio svijeta naziva i "Obecana zemlja".
osim toga, Abrahamu je bio obecan sin od koga ce postati "narod veliki", tj. i taj narod ce biti "izabrani narod". tu sad ima jedna stvar u koju ja trenutno ne bih dublje ulazio, jedan razlog je sto je to teoloski problem, a drugi sto zahtijeva vise vremena za pisanje i objasnjavanje kojeg ja trenutno nemam.
dakle, Bog je Abrahamu obecao sina, ali je on je on i ostario a on i njegova zena Sara jos uvijek nisu imali djece, tako da je Sara pokusala "pomoci" Bogu da on ispuni svoj zavjet, i to na taj nacin sto je (na njen prijedlog) dozvolila Abrahamu da spava s njenom sluzavkom/robinjom Agarom i da joj ona rodi dijete koje bi bilo njeno. po mojim saznanjima, takvo sto je bio obicaj u nekim narodima tadasnjeg svijeta, kako bi zena nerotkinja, odnosno njena familija mogla ipak imati nasljednika.
i tako se i desilo. Abraham je spavao sa Agarom i ona mu je rodila sina Ishmaela. medjutim, prema zapisanom izvjestaju, Bog je rekao da to nije bio njegov plan, premda ce i od Ishmaela nastati velik narod, njegova namjera je bila iskusati Abrahamovu vjeru da je Bog kadar uciniti i ono sto covjeku izgleda nemoguce, tako da je Bog ucinio da konacno Abraham negdje u dobi od 100 godina i Sara u dobi od 90 godina dobiju sina koji je dobio ime Izak.
e sad, od Izaka su nastali Zidovi/Jevreji (Izak je bio otac Jakova, koji je dobio ime Izrael), a od Ishmaela su nastali Arapi, koji su od samog pocetka zivjeli u pustinji, jer je i Ishmael sa svojom majkom zavrsio u pustinji. samo o ovom detalju moglo bi se jos dosta toga pricati. ja cu se ipak zadrzati samo na jos nekoliko detalja.
Zidovi/Jevreji su tako postali "izabrani narod" koji je trebao okolnim narodima, tj. svijetu (koji je vec postao mnogobozacki) pokazati pravog Boga, koji je jedan i jedini Bog, a svi ostali "bogovi" su bogovi. nadam se da razlikujete sto zelim reci upotrebom malog i velikog slova, te navodnika.
Bog postoji ILI ne postoji. ako postoji, onda postoji samo jedan pravi Bog, jer ako postoje bogovi, onda nijedan od njih nije Bog, vec neki "bogici". Jevreji su trebali svijetu obznaniti pravog i jedinog Boga, onakvog kako se On otkrio. medjutim, Jevreji su podbacili, jer su jedinog Boga ucinili "svojim Bogom", zatvorili su se i nisu ucinili ono sto su trebali uciniti. da su Jevreji ucinili ono sto su bili duzni, nikada do pojave krscanstva ne bi ni trebalo doci. Isus Krist i njegovi sljedbenici su se samo nadovezali na prijasnju objavu Boga, ali i pokazali da Jevreji vise nisu "izabran narod" (citati vise o tome u knjigama Novog zavjeta, drugi dio Biblije - o zivotu i radu Isusa Krista i njegovih ucenika/apostola). ako postoji Bog i ako je On stvorio prve ljude sigurno je to ucinio s odredjenom namjerom. pitanje je da li su ljudi ispunili njegovu namjeru.
cinjenica je i to da ni jevreji a ni krscani nisu ostvarili sve sto su trebali, tako da bi se tu moglo postaviti jos dosta pitanja. cini mi se da je upravo iz tog razloga i otvorena ova tema, jer tako dolazimo do 7. stoljeca A.D. i do pojave Muhameda i islama. medjutim, s pojavom islama nije doslo do nestanka krscanstva (premda je u 11. stoljecu doslo do razdiobe na istocnu i zapadnu crkvu, tj. na katolicku i pravoslavnu/otodoksnu crkvu), a negdje u 15/16 stoljecu (znakovi jos ranije) dolazi i do reformacije i pojave novih pojedinaca, grupa i crkava koje su isticale da oni drze "pravu vjeru" u jednog Boga. koliko je to stvarno tako vrijedno je istraziti.
ovdje cu sad zavrsiti, jer vjerujem da je netko o tome na ovoj temi sigurno nesto vec pisao (nazalost ja nisam procitao vise od prve stranice), ali cu se njoj vratiti kasnije kad budem u mogucnosti.
A sta li je ispravan zakljucak, 'nako po tebi?
Cuj, kaze pogresno bi bilo citati Toru, pa preprica pet odlomaka iz iste
I jos, kaze, pogresno je citati Toru, jer je Tora dio Biblije I to ce vas dovesti do pogresnik zakljucaka?
Shoshana wrote: Cuj, kaze pogresno bi bilo citati Toru, pa preprica pet odlomaka iz iste
I jos, kaze, pogresno je citati Toru, jer je Tora dio Biblije I to ce vas dovesti do pogresnik zakljucaka?
jasta radi...sve je to sejtanska literatura
draga gospodjice/gospodjo, gore iznad danas je objasnila sve i ja nemam sta dodati, osim da sam u medjuvremenu procitao svih pet stranica na ovoj temi i nisam se bas osjetio nesto bogatijim. pogotovo s nacinom vodjenja diskusije gdje je vidljivo da pojedini izgleda imaju toliko slobodnog vremena napretek da ne znaju sta bi s njime te redovito citiraju kompletne postove a sve radi jedne, dvije ili cak tri rijeci. a nerijetko cak nijedne, thanks to smileys.... jah, sejtanski komentari.
stante sad malo, kolko ja procita u citatima nigdje ne pise u Tori da su Jevreji bili izabrani da sire vjeru u jednog Boga, vec su samo ''nako'' izabrani
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:stante sad malo, kolko ja procita u citatima nigdje ne pise u Tori da su Jevreji bili izabrani da sire vjeru u jednog Boga, vec su samo ''nako'' izabrani
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:stante sad malo, kolko ja procita u citatima nigdje ne pise u Tori da su Jevreji bili izabrani da sire vjeru u jednog Boga, vec su samo ''nako'' izabrani
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:stante sad malo, kolko ja procita u citatima nigdje ne pise u Tori da su Jevreji bili izabrani da sire vjeru u jednog Boga, vec su samo ''nako'' izabrani
ja ovo zaista prvi put cujem. judaizam je jedina od abrahamovskih religija koja ne proselitizira, cak je tradicionalno jako tesko bilo preci na judaizam -- ova praksa postaje prihvatljivija rabinima tek poslije WWII (rabini su inace ti koji su generalno odgovarali ljude od konvertiranja). koliko se sjecam cak postoji i ritual u kojem jevreji 'odgovaraju' nekoliko dana osobu koja se zeli konvertovati od te ideje... tako da mi zaista nije jasna tvrdnja da su jevreji izabrani da ista sire?!?! voljela bih da mi neko ovo pojasni jer zaista prvi put cujem...
koliko je meni poznato, judaizam tvrdi da je bog (jahwe, koji nigdje za sebe ne kaze da je jedini bog koji postoji) sa njima sklopio 'ugovor', pocevsi od proroka abrahama i zavrsivsi sa mojsijem i torom. to je sve.
pa i ja bi volio da nam sad neko dodje da nam to objasni.
a kolko znam u Tori nigdje ne pise da neZidovi ne smiju prec na judaizam, ali su to rabini uopste nisu forsirali, i takodje sam cuo da nigdje ne pise da se judaizam prenosi sa majke na djecu, ako ima neko nek me ispravi sa dokazimai narafno
Bosanac sa dna kace wrote:pa i ja bi volio da nam sad neko dodje da nam to objasni.
a kolko znam u Tori nigdje ne pise da neZidovi ne smiju prec na judaizam, ali su to rabini uopste nisu forsirali, i takodje sam cuo da nigdje ne pise da se judaizam prenosi sa majke na djecu, ako ima neko nek me ispravi sa dokazimai narafno
ne, nema zabrane... mislim da tora cak i pojasnjava ko se moze i pod kojim uslovima smatrati konvertitom. rabini nisu forsirali to previse; ja mislim jer za vecinu jevreja biti jevrej nije samo vjerska vec i etnicka/rasna odrednica. pa kao sto se neko ne moze konvertovati u crnca ili azijata, ne moze ni postati jevrej etnicki. ali mozda grijesim, to je moje shvatanje. ono sto je interesantno je da judaizam ne priznaje konverzije na druge vjere -- odrasla osoba koja je recimo presla na hriscanstvo, iako odmetnik od vjere (po praksi) se smatra i dalje jevrejem po nekim vjerskim zakonima. jedina iznimka je dijete koje je prevedeno na judaizam bez svoje volje.
da, judaisam se prati po majcinoj liniji a ne ocevoj. jevrej je onaj koga je rodila jevrejka.
danas wrote:
da, judaisam se prati po majcinoj liniji a ne ocevoj. jevrej je onaj koga je rodila jevrejka.
ja sam cuo da za to nema osnova u Tori, ispravi me ako grijesim, da cuo sam i to da u judaizmu nema definicje raja i pakla
pa valjda ima osnove jevrejima, koji tako shvataju bozju rijec. mislim da je ova definicija jevrejstva zasnovana na pasusu iz tore, ne znam sad napamet kojem (negdje pri kraju, kad govori sa kim s eko smiej zeniti i tako to). sve je do interpretacije. mislim, dijetalni zakoni recimo zabranjuju mijesanje mlijecnih i mesnih proizvoda, a to je sve zasnovano na recenici -- ne kuhaj jagnje u mlijeku njegove majke. meni recimo to znaci upravo sto kaze ili mozda da ne koljes mlade zivotinje koje jos sisaju, jer je to okrutno. njima znaci ne jedi cheeseburger i pazi da ti se ne dotakne serpa u kojoj kuhas mlijeko sa viljuskom kojom jedes burek. jebiga.
PS
jevreji vjeruju u besmrtnost duse, pa imaju i neki koncept raja i pakla (gehenom -- dzehenem ). ali koncept im je drugaciji od hriscanskog i islamkog raja/pakla, i ostaje podosta nedefinisan... jer naglasak nije na kazni/nagradi poslije smrti vec na ovozemaljskim djelima. mislim da se zivot poslije smrti jedva spominje u tori.
izvinjavam se da je copy-paste, i da je tako dugo, ali neda mi se prekucavati ni prepričavati, ako imaš za esej, onda ćeš nešto izabrati....
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Unlike other ancient religions and cultures, Judaism is rooted in history, not in mythology.
…. the roots of the Jewish religion go back some 4,000 years in history and other major religions are indebted to its Scriptures to a greater or lesser degree. Christianity, founded by Jesus (Hebrew, Ye•shu´a‛), a first-century Jew, has its roots in the Hebrew Scriptures. And as any reading of the Qur’ān will show, Islām also owes much to those scriptures. (Qur’ān, surah 2:49-57; 32:23, 24) Thus, when we examine the Jewish religion, we also examine the roots of hundreds of other religions and sects.
…. the Jewish religion provides an essential link in mankind’s search for the true God. According to the Hebrew Scriptures, Abram, the forefather of the Jews, was already worshiping the true God nearly 4,000 years ago. Reasonably, we ask, How did the Jews and their faith develop?—Genesis 17:18. How Did the Jews Originate?
Generally speaking, the Jewish people are descendants of an ancient, Hebrew-speaking branch of the Semitic race. (Genesis 10:1, 21-32; 1 Chronicles 1:17-28, 34; 2:1, 2) Nearly 4,000 years ago, their forefather Abram emigrated from the thriving metropolis of Ur of the Chaldeans in Sumeria to the land of Canaan, of which God had stated: “I will assign this land to your offspring.” (Genesis 11:31–12:7) He is spoken of as “Abram the Hebrew” at Genesis 14:13, although his name was later changed to Abraham. (Genesis 17:4-6) From him the Jews draw a line of descent that begins with his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. (Genesis 32:27-29) Israel had 12 sons, who became the founders of 12 tribes. One of those was Judah, from which name the word “Jew” was eventually derived.—2 Kings 16:6.
In time the term “Jew” was applied to all Israelites, not just to a descendant of Judah. (Esther 3:6; 9:20) Because the Jewish genealogical records were destroyed in 70 C.E. when the Romans razed Jerusalem, no Jew today can accurately determine from which tribe he himself is descended. Nevertheless, over the millenniums, the ancient Jewish religion has developed and changed. Today Judaism is practiced by millions of Jews in the Republic of Israel and the Diaspora (dispersion around the world). What is the basis of that religion? Moses, the Law, and a Nation In 1943 B.C.E., God chose Abram to be his special servant and later made a solemn oath to him because of his faithfulness in being willing to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice, even though the sacrifice was never completed. (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:1-14) In that oath God said: “By Myself I swear, the LORD [Hebrew: יהוה, YHWH] declares: Because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your favored one, I will bestow My blessing upon you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven . . . All the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by your descendants [“seed,” JP], because you have obeyed My command.” This sworn oath was repeated to Abraham’s son and to his grandson, and then it continued in the tribe of Judah and the line of David. This strictly monotheistic concept of a personal God dealing directly with humans was unique in that ancient world, and it came to form the basis of the Jewish religion.—Genesis 22:15-18; 26:3-5; 28:13-15; Psalm 89:4, 5, 29, 30, 36, 37 (Psalm 89:3, 4, 28, 29, 35, 36, ).
To carry out His promises to Abraham, God laid the foundation for a nation by establishing a special covenant with Abraham’s descendants. This covenant was instituted through Moses, the great Hebrew leader and mediator between God and Israel. Who was Moses, and why is he so important to Jews? The Bible’s Exodus account tells us that he was born in Egypt (1593 B.C.E.) to Israelite parents who were slaves in captivity along with the rest of Israel. He was the one “whom the LORD singled out” to lead His people to freedom in Canaan, the Promised Land. (Deuteronomy 6:23; 34:10) Moses fulfilled the vital role of mediator of the Law covenant given by God to Israel, in addition to being their prophet, judge, leader, and historian.—Exodus 2:1–3:22.
The Law that Israel accepted consisted of the Ten Words, or Commandments, and over 600 laws that amounted to a comprehensive catalog of directions and guidance for daily conduct. It involved the mundane and the holy—the physical and the moral requirements as well as the worship of God.
This Law covenant, or religious constitution, gave form and substance to the faith of the patriarchs. As a result, the descendants of Abraham became a nation dedicated to the service of God. Thus the Jewish religion began to take definite shape, and the Jews became a nation organized for the worship and service of their God. At Exodus 19:5, 6, God promised them: “If you will obey Me faithfully and keep My covenant, . . . you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” Thus, the Israelites would become a ‘chosen people’ to serve God’s purposes. However, the fulfillment of the covenant promises was subject to the condition “If you will obey.” That dedicated nation was now obligated to its God. Hence, at a later date (the eighth century B.C.E.), God could say to the Jews: “My witnesses are you—declares the LORD [Hebrew: יהוה, YHWH]—My servant, whom I have chosen.”—Isaiah 43:10, 12. A Nation With Priests, Prophets, and Kings
While the nation of Israel was still in the desert and heading for the Promised Land, a priesthood was established in the line of Moses’ brother, Aaron. A large portable tent, or tabernacle, became the center of Israelite worship and sacrifice. (Exodus, chapters 26-28) In time the nation of Israel arrived at the Promised Land, Canaan, and conquered it, even as God had commanded. (Joshua 1:2-6) Eventually an earthly kingship was established, and in 1077 B.C.E., David, from the tribe of Judah, became king. With his rule, both the kingship and the priesthood were firmly established at a new national center, Jerusalem.—1 Samuel 8:7.
After David’s death, his son Solomon built a magnificent temple in Jerusalem, which replaced the tabernacle. Because God had made a covenant with David for the kingship to remain in his line forever, it was understood that an anointed King, the Messiah, would one day come from David’s line of descent. Prophecy indicated that through this Messianic King, or “seed,” Israel and all the nations would enjoy perfect rulership. (Genesis 22:18, JP) This hope took root, and the Messianic nature of the Jewish religion became clearly crystallized.—2 Samuel 7:8-16; Psalm 72:1-20; Isaiah 11:1-10; Zechariah 9:9, 10.
However, the Jews allowed themselves to be influenced by the false religion of the Canaanites and other nations round about. As a result, they violated their covenant relationship with God. To correct them and guide them back, Jehovah sent a series of prophets who bore his messages to the people. Thus, prophecy became another unique feature of the religion of the Jews and constitutes much of the Hebrew Scriptures. In fact, 18 books of the Hebrew Scriptures bear prophets’ names.—Isaiah 1:4-17.
klix among such prophets were Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, all of whom warned of Jehovah’s impending punishment of the nation for its idolatrous worship. This punishment came about in 607 B.C.E. when, because of Israel’s apostasy, Jehovah allowed Babylon, the then dominant world power, to overthrow Jerusalem and its temple and take the nation into captivity. The prophets were proved right in what they had foretold, and Israel’s 70-year exile for most of the sixth century B.C.E. is a matter of historical record.—2 Chronicles 36:20, 21; Jeremiah 25:11, 12; Daniel 9:2.
In 539 B.C.E., Cyrus the Persian defeated Babylon and permitted the Jews to resettle their land and rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. Although a remnant responded, the majority of the Jews remained under the influence of Babylonian society. Jews later were affected by the Persian culture. Consequently, Jewish settlements sprang up in the Middle East and around the Mediterranean. In each community a new form of worship came into being that involved the synagogue, a congregational center for the Jews in each town. Naturally, this arrangement diminished the emphasis on the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. The far-flung Jews were now truly a Diaspora.—Ezra 2:64, 65. Judaism Emerges With a Greek Garment By the fourth century B.C.E., the Jewish community was in a state of flux and was thus prey to the waves of a non-Jewish culture that was engulfing the Mediterranean world and beyond. The waters emanated from Greece, and Judaism emerged from them with a Hellenistic garment.
In 332 B.C.E. the Greek general Alexander the Great took the Middle East in lightning-quick conquest and was welcomed by the Jews when he came to Jerusalem. Alexander’s successors continued his plan of Hellenization, imbuing all parts of the empire with Greek language, culture, and philosophy. As a result, the Greek and Jewish cultures went through a blending process that was to have surprising results.
Diaspora Jews began to speak Greek instead of Hebrew. So toward the beginning of the third century B.C.E., the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, called the Septuagint, was made into Greek, and through it, many Gentiles came to have respect for and familiarity with the Jews’ religion, some even converting. Jews, on the other hand, were becoming conversant with Greek thought and some even became philosophers, something entirely new to the Jews. One example is Philo of Alexandria of the first century C.E., who endeavored to explain Judaism in terms of Greek philosophy, as if the two expressed the same ultimate truths.
Summing up this period of give-and-take between Greek and Jewish cultures, Jewish author Max Dimont says: “Enriched with Platonic thought, Aristotelian logic, and Euclidian science, Jewish scholars approached the Torah with new tools. . . . They proceeded to add Greek reason to Jewish revelation.” The events that would take place under Roman rule, which absorbed the Greek Empire and then Jerusalem in the year 63 B.C.E., were to pave the way for even more significant changes. Judaism Under Roman Rule
The Judaism of the first century of the Common Era was at a unique stage. Max Dimont states that it was poised between “the mind of Greece and the sword of Rome.” Jewish expectations were high because of political oppression and interpretations of Messianic prophecies, especially those of Daniel. The Jews were divided into factions. The Pharisees emphasized an oral law rather than temple sacrifice. The Sadducees stressed the importance of the temple and the priesthood. Then there were the Essenes, the Zealots, and the Herodians. All were at odds religiously and philosophically. Jewish leaders were called rabbis (masters, teachers) who, because of their knowledge of the Law, grew in prestige and became a new type of spiritual leader.
Internal and external divisions, however, continued in Judaism, especially in the land of Israel. Finally, outright rebellion broke out against Rome, and in 70 C.E., Roman troops besieged Jerusalem, laid waste the city, burned its temple to the ground, and scattered its inhabitants. Eventually, Jerusalem was decreed totally off-limits to Jews. Without a temple, without a land, with its people dispersed throughout the Roman Empire, Judaism was in need of a new religious expression if it was to survive.
With the destruction of the temple, the Sadducees disappeared, and the oral law that the Pharisees had championed became the centerpiece of a new, Rabbinic Judaism. More intense study, prayer, and works of piety replaced temple sacrifices and pilgrimages. Thus, Judaism could be practiced anywhere, at any time, in any cultural surroundings. The rabbis put this oral law into writing, in addition to composing commentaries on it, and then commentaries on the commentaries, all of which together became known as the Talmud.
What was the result of these varied influences? Max Dimont says in his book Jews, God and History that though the Pharisees carried on the torch of Jewish ideology and religion, “the torch itself had been ignited by the Greek philosophers.” While much of the Talmud was highly legalistic, its illustrations and explanations reflected the clear influence of Greek philosophy. For example, Greek religious concepts, such as the immortal soul, were expressed in Jewish terms. Truly, in that new Rabbinic era, veneration of the Talmud—by then a blend of legalistic and Greek philosophy—grew among the Jews until, by the Middle Ages, the Talmud came to be revered by the Jews more than the Bible itself. Judaism Through the Middle Ages
During the Middle Ages (from about 500 to 1500 C.E.), two distinct Jewish communities emerged—the Sephardic Jews, who flourished under Muslim rule in Spain, and the Ashkenazi Jews in Central and Eastern Europe. Both communities produced Rabbinic scholars whose writings and thoughts form the basis for Jewish religious interpretation until this day. Interestingly, many of the customs and religious practices current today in Judaism really got their start during the Middle Ages.
In the 12th century, there began a wave of expulsions of Jews from various countries. As Israeli author Abba Eban explains in My People—The Story of the Jews: “In any country . . . which fell under the unilateral influence of the Catholic Church, the story is the same: appalling degradation, torture, slaughter, and expulsion.” Finally, in 1492, Spain, which had once again come under Catholic rule, followed suit and ordered the expulsion of all Jews from its territory. So by the end of the 15th century, Jews had been expelled from nearly all Western Europe, fleeing to Eastern Europe and countries around the Mediterranean.
Through the centuries of oppression and persecution, many self-proclaimed Messiahs rose up among the Jews in different parts of the world, all receiving acceptance to one degree or another, but ending in disillusionment. By the 17th century, new initiatives were needed to reinvigorate the Jews and pull them out of this dark period. In the mid-18th century, there appeared an answer to the despair the Jewish people felt. It was Hasidism, a mixture of mysticism and religious ecstasy expressed in daily devotion and activity. In contrast, about the same time, philosopher Moses Mendelssohn, a German Jew, offered another solution, the way of Haskala, or enlightenment, which was to lead into what is historically considered to be “Modern Judaism.” From “Enlightenment” to Zionism According to Moses Mendelssohn (1729-86), Jews would be accepted if they would come out from under the restraints of the Talmud and conform to Western culture. In his day, he became one of the Jews most respected by the Gentile world. However, renewed outbursts of violent anti-Semitism in the 19th century, especially in “Christian” Russia, disillusioned the movement’s followers, and many then focused on finding a political refuge for the Jews. They rejected the idea of a personal Messiah who would lead the Jews back to Israel and began to work on establishing a Jewish State by other means. This then became the concept of Zionism: “the secularization of . . . Jewish messianism,” as one authority puts it.
The murder of some six million European Jews in the Nazi-inspired Holocaust (1935-45) gave Zionism its final impetus and gained much sympathy for it worldwide. The Zionist dream came true in 1948 with the establishment of the State of Israel, which brings us to Judaism in our day and to the question, What do modern Jews believe? God Is One
Simply put, Judaism is the religion of a people. Therefore, a convert becomes part of the Jewish people as well as the Jewish religion. It is a monotheistic religion in the strictest sense and holds that God intervenes in human history, especially in relation to the Jews. Jewish worship involves several annual festivals and various customs. Although there are no creeds or dogmas accepted by all Jews, the confession of the oneness of God as expressed in the Shema, a prayer based on Deuteronomy 6:4 (JP), forms a central part of synagogue worship: “HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.”
This belief in one God was passed on to Christianity and Islām. According to Dr. J. H. Hertz, a rabbi: “This sublime pronouncement of absolute monotheism was a declaration of war against all polytheism . . . In the same way, the Shema excludes the trinity of the Christian creed as a violation of the Unity of God.” But now let us turn to Jewish belief on the subject of the afterlife. Death, Soul, and Resurrection
One of the basic beliefs of modern Judaism is that man has an immortal soul that survives the death of his body. But does this originate in the Bible? The Encyclopaedia Judaica frankly admits: “It was probably under Greek influence that the doctrine of the immortality of the soul came into Judaism.” However, this created a doctrinal dilemma, as the same source states: “Basically the two beliefs of resurrection and the soul’s immortality are contradictory. The one refers to a collective resurrection at the end of the days, i.e., that the dead sleeping in the earth will arise from the grave, while the other refers to the state of the soul after the death of the body.” How was the dilemma resolved in Jewish theology? “It was held that when the individual died his soul still lived on in another realm (this gave rise to all the beliefs regarding heaven and hell) while his body lay in the grave to await the physical resurrection of all the dead here on earth.”
University lecturer Arthur Hertzberg writes: “In the [Hebrew] Bible itself the arena of man’s life is this world. There is no doctrine of heaven and hell, only a growing concept of an ultimate resurrection of the dead at the end of days.” That is a simple and accurate explanation of the Biblical concept, namely, that “the dead know nothing . . . For there is no action, no reasoning, no learning, no wisdom in Sheol [mankind’s common grave], where you are going.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Daniel 12:1, 2; Isaiah 26:19.
According to the Encyclopaedia Judaica, “In the rabbinic period the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead is considered one of the central doctrines of Judaism” and “is to be distinguished from the belief in . . . the immortality of the soul.” Today, however, while the immortality of the soul is accepted by all factions of Judaism, the resurrection of the dead is not.
In contrast with the Bible, the Talmud, influenced by Hellenism, is replete with explanations and stories and even descriptions of the immortal soul. Later Jewish mystical literature, the Kabbala, even goes so far as to teach reincarnation (transmigration of souls), which is basically an ancient Hindu teaching. In Israel today, this is widely accepted as a Jewish teaching, and it also plays an important role in Hasidic belief and literature. For example, Martin Buber includes in his book Tales of the Hasidim—The Later Masters a tale about the soul from the school of Elimelekh, a rabbi of Lizhensk: “On the Day of Atonement, when Rabbi Abraham Yehoshua would recite the Avodah, the prayer that repeats the service of the high priest in the Temple of Jerusalem, and would come to the passage: ‘And thus he spoke,’ he would never say those words, but would say: ‘And thus I spoke.’ For he had not forgotten the time his soul was in the body of a high priest of Jerusalem.”
Reform Judaism has gone so far as to reject belief in the resurrection. Having removed the word from Reform prayer books, it recognizes only the belief in the immortal soul. How much clearer is the Biblical idea as expressed at Genesis 2:7: “The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (JP) The combination of the body and the spirit, or life-force, constitutes “a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7; 7:22; Psalm 146:4) Conversely, when the human sinner dies, then the soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) Thus, at death man ceases to have any conscious existence. His life-force returns to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 3:19; 9:5, 10; 12:7) The truly Biblical hope for the dead is the resurrection—Hebrew: techi•yath´ ham•me•thim´, or “revival of the dead.”
While this conclusion might surprise even many Jews, the resurrection has been the real hope of worshipers of the true God for thousands of years. About 3,500 years ago, faithful, suffering Job spoke of a future time when God would raise him from Sheol, or the grave. (Job 14:14, 15) The prophet Daniel was also assured that he would be raised “at the end of the days.”—Daniel 12:2, 12 (13, JP; NW).
There is no basis in Scripture for saying those faithful Hebrews believed they had an immortal soul that would survive into an afterworld. They clearly had sufficient reason to believe that the Sovereign Lord, who counts and controls the stars of the universe, would also remember them at the time of the resurrection. They had been faithful to him and his name. He would be faithful to them.—Psalm 18:26 (25, NW); 147:4; Isaiah 25:7, 8; 40:25, 26. Do Jews Still Await the Messiah? There are many prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures from which Jews over 2,000 years ago derived their Messianic hope. Second Samuel 7:11-16 indicated that the Messiah would be of the line of David. Isaiah 11:1-10 prophesied that he would bring righteousness and peace to all mankind. Daniel 9:24-27 gave the chronology for the appearance of the Messiah and his being cut off in death.
As the Encyclopaedia Judaica explains, by the first century, Messianic expectations were high. The Messiah was expected to be “a charismatically endowed descendant of David who the Jews of the Roman period believed would be raised up by God to break the yoke of the heathen and to reign over a restored kingdom of Israel.” However, the militant Messiah the Jews were expecting was not forthcoming.
Yet, as The New Encyclopćdia Britannica notes, the Messianic hope was vital in holding the Jewish people together throughout their many ordeals: “Judaism undoubtedly owes its survival, to a considerable extent, to its steadfast faith in the messianic promise and future.” But with the rise of modern Judaism between the 18th and 19th centuries, many Jews ended their passive waiting for the Messiah. Finally, with the Nazi-inspired Holocaust, many lost their patience and hope. They began to view the Messianic message as a liability and so reinterpreted it merely as a new age of prosperity and peace. Since that time, although there are exceptions, Jews as a whole can hardly be said to be waiting for a personal Messiah.
tezu o "odabranom" narodu treba teoloski razumjeti. Ne znaci nikakvo favoriziranje u odnosu na druge narode vec strogu obvezu ponasanja u skladu sa bozjim zakonima i vise je otezavajuca nego privilegirajuca u svjetovnom smislu. Judaizam je najstarija monoteisticka religija, prethodnica krscanstva i islama i historijski gledano Zidovi se vide kao narod od Boga izabran u masi pagana
Exodus govori o tome kako se Bog javlja Mojsiju da odvede njegov narod iz egipatskog ropstva u obecanu zemlju u kojoj teku med i mlijeko, 600 000 ljudi. Pesah je praznik koji podsjeca Zidove na exodus, danas on znaci oslobodjenje i pocetak zidovske povjesti kao naroda a ne saveza plemena
basta sljezove boje wrote:tezu o "odabranom" narodu treba teoloski razumjeti. Ne znaci nikakvo favoriziranje u odnosu na druge narode vec strogu obvezu ponasanja u skladu sa bozjim zakonima i vise je otezavajuca nego privilegirajuca u svjetovnom smislu. Judaizam je najstarija monoteisticka religija, prethodnica krscanstva i islama i historijski gledano Zidovi se vide kao narod od Boga izabran u masi pagana
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