Zadnji pogon zimi

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Brdar
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Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Brdar » 15/01/2012 16:31

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Last edited by Brdar on 21/09/2012 23:09, edited 1 time in total.


wolfie
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by wolfie » 15/01/2012 16:42

Please delete this thread. :run:

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AmADin_gospo
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by AmADin_gospo » 15/01/2012 17:34

pretpostavljam da je postavljac topika vlasnik gola 2 s Sava S3 gumama prve serije koje i "dan danas drze ko orije 10godina iako nemaju sare".

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HardCore
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by HardCore » 15/01/2012 17:41

Pretpostavljam da vi vozate BMW-ove, modeli 2011 ako ne i 2012 imate vi para za posebno modifikovana auta :)

Brdar
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Brdar » 15/01/2012 21:15

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olensoner
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by olensoner » 15/01/2012 21:59

Gume su kljucne u citavoj prici, bez dobrih guma ni auto sa prednjom vucom nije sigurno po snijegu i ledu, a tek sa zadnjom.

Brdar
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Brdar » 15/01/2012 22:29

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AmADin_gospo
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by AmADin_gospo » 15/01/2012 22:35

ma ja, mercedes, bmw, ferrary, lamborghini nemaju pojma da zadnji pogon nevalja. prave sranje auta, nema pogona bez prednjeg.

stvarno, treba sva ova sa-x forumaška inteligencija das e pokupi i održi lekciju gore navedenim kako se prave dobra auta, pošto kako vidimo, nemaju pojma... :-)

Brdar
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Brdar » 15/01/2012 22:52

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zli_hordas
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by zli_hordas » 15/01/2012 22:55

Deveraju ko Kemal Malovcic.

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chuchumbamayumbe
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by chuchumbamayumbe » 15/01/2012 22:59

Ja sam uživao zimi voziti moju Opel Omegu karavana (zadnji pogon). Stavim po vreću cementa iznad svakog pogonskog točka, pa ga prema Odobašinoj izguštam bez problema, po snijegu.
Ili gore po Bjelašnici, onih krivina, samo malo jačeg gasa, zanese je, upravljač, ma ljepota.
Problem je što raja nema mjeru, nema osjećaja za gas i volan, za obrtaje, uglavnom, nisu naučili voziti po kiši i snijegu.

p.s.Naravno, moraš imati dobre gume, dapače. odlične (valjda se to podrazumijeva zimi). :)
Last edited by chuchumbamayumbe on 15/01/2012 23:04, edited 1 time in total.

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beco
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by beco » 15/01/2012 23:02

Moj Brdar ESP nema veze sa tim sto ti ne mozes krenuti na strmom brdu po kisi, tebi treba traction control a ne ESP. A da su toliko opasni kao sto vi pricati automobili sa zadnjim pogonom po kisi i snijegu davno bi bilo zabranjeno ili barem ograniceno njihovo koristenje u mokrim i zimskim mjesecima. Vozio sam taj isti MB 190D 5 godina u Sa i nikad nije me ostavio. Najvise je do guma a poslije toga do vozaca.

Potpisujem ovo sto chuchumbamayumbe prica, ne treba ti 200 KS da se zabavis, meni bilo dovoljno i 75 KS sa MB stim da ja cement nisam koristio. I kao sto chuchumbamayumbe samo dozirano. Ma ko zna ljepota je voziti auta sa zadnjim pogonom zimi.

vnm
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by vnm » 15/01/2012 23:12

nije se preslo na prednji pogon zbog zime nego zato jer ti je lakse dovesti pogon na prednje tockove, ne trebas kardan, smanjujes troskove i proizvodnje i odrzavanja.

Zmajček
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Zmajček » 15/01/2012 23:36

Potpisujem AmADin_gospo za sve što je rekao, a čudi me što nisu spomenuli kako je ABS presudan faktor kod prednje vuče.
I prednji i zadnji pogon imaju svoje prednosti i mane. Naravno, držite se vi prednjeg pogona, a odabrani znaju koji je osjećaj u vožnji jednog BMW-a.
A da možda ove sezone krene i Formula 1 sa prednjim pogonom, oni imaju i ABS i ESP i ASR sve u paketu

--usnee--
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by --usnee-- » 16/01/2012 01:44

najbolje da jos pocnete pisat o tome kako je samo jedna guma bitna nisu vise ni 2 ako je prednji pogon ccc, a kod zadnjeg je bitno da je dobra i rezervna guma tj 5 guma je bitno, 90% ljudi koji raspravljaju o prednjem ili zadnjem pogonu nisu imali uopste doticaja i sa prednjim i sa zadnjim par godina da bi mogli reci to je bolje ili to je losije. Sve neka nagadjanja cuo vidio. Sta znate uopste kakav je vozac za volanom kod mercedesa, ja npr negdje sa prednjim nmg glatko proci kao jaran kojem da das mercedesa ili fiata ili bmw a nebitno on prolazi glatko. Ukratko ako nemas dobre gume i na jednom i na drugom nije dobro. Kod prednjeg kad nemas zadnje gume kako treba plese ti zadnji kraj, kod zadnjeg kad nemas prednje dobre onda te iznosi prednji kraj.

Kindzadza
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Kindzadza » 16/01/2012 01:54

Baci u gepek teret... Npr. Dzak-dva peska i mirna Bosna.

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Qler
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by Qler » 16/01/2012 08:40

Ne treba nista u gepeku, samo dobre gume i znati kako sa gasom.

Gore vam je covjek napisao sto se prave auta sa prednjom vucom, samo zbog manje cijene proizvodnje. Zadnja da ne valja sto audi na DTM-u u svom starom TT-i ima zadnju vucu? Sto F1 bolidi imaju zadnju vucu? Mislim ako je lakse upravljati sa prednjom, zar nije logicnije onda da F1 bude prednja vuca, mozda ce brze u krivine :D:D:D


Nikad, nikad sa prednjom vucom ne mozes uci u krivinu tako brzo kao sa zadnjom, i ko se imalo razumije u auta, a i u osnovne zakone fizike, to mu je jasno...

shin
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by shin » 16/01/2012 08:59

Brdar wrote:zadnji pogon je jako nesiguran po zimi,kisi,ja nikad nebi vozio auto sa zadnjim pogonom a da nije quattro
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ma ja, da nije audija kako bi mi vozili sada :lol:

Jesu vas isprepadali ko djecu sa babarogama :skoljka:

Why are rear-drive cars more fun? Every enthusiast may know the answer, but I didn't. So I called up a helpful GM suspension expert, Vehicle Chief Engineer Ed Zellner. There are, I learned, five basic reasons:

1) "Balance": The car rides on four patches of rubber, each about as big as your hand. An ideal car would distribute its weight evenly, so each tire had to bear the same load, and none would give way earlier than all the others. The ideal weight distribution, then, would be split about 50/50 between front and rear (actually, 48/52 to help with forward pitch during braking). "A rear-drive car can typically approach that," says Zellner. Engineers can move the front wheels forward, so that the engine – which doesn't have to be connected to those wheels -- sits behind the front axle. Meanwhile, the driveshaft and rear differential (necessary to send power to the rear tires) add weight in the rear. Front-drive cars, which must connect the engine and transmission to the front axle, typically have their engines mounted way forward and can't do much better than a 60/40 front/rear weight distribution.

2) Center of Gravity: This is the point the car wants to "rotate around" in a turn. On a rear-drive car, it's "about where the driver sits," says Zellner. In a turn, in other words, the car seems to be rotating around you – you're at the center. It's a natural pleasant effect, suggesting you're in control, the way you're in control when you're walking or running around a corner and your weight is centered inside you. (Analogy No. 2: It's like wearing stereo headphones and having the sound centered between your ears!) A front-drive car, in contrast, with its massive front weight bias, wants to rotate around a point in front of the driver. So in a corner, the driver isn't just rotating around his spine. He's moving sideways, as if he were a tether ball on the end of a rope, or Linus being dragged when Snoopy gets hold of his blanket. Not such a pleasant feeling, or a feeling that gives you a sense of natural control.

3) "Torque Steer": One of the most annoying habits of many powerful front-drive cars is that they don't go straight when you step on the accelerator! Instead, they pull to one side, requiring you to steer in the other direction to compensate, like on a damn boat. This "torque steer" usually happens because the drive shafts that connect the engine to the front wheels aren't the same length. Under power, the shafts wind up like springs. The longer shaft -- typically on the right -- winds up a bit more, while the shorter left shaft winds up less and transmits its power to the ground more quickly, which has the effect of pulling the car to the left. (This winding-up phenomenon occurs the moment you step on the pedal. After that, the wind-up relaxes, but "torque steer" can still be produced by the angles of the joints in the drive axles as the whole drivetrain twists on its rubber mounts.)

Veer madness?
Engineers try various strategies to control this veering tendency, but even designing shafts of equal length (as in all Cadillacs) doesn't completely solve the problem because the engine still twists a bit in its mounts and alters the angles of the drive shafts. True, some manufacturers -- Audi, for example -- are said to do a particularly good job of repressing torque steer . But even a top-rank company such as Nissan has problems -- its otherwise appealing new front-drive Maxima is said to be plagued by big-time, uninhibited torque steer. Rear-drive cars, meanwhile, don't really have a torque-steer problem that needs repressing. Their power goes to the rear through one driveshaft to a center differential that can a) have equal-length shafts coming out from it and b) be more firmly mounted.

4) Weight Shift: Suppose you just want to go in a straight line. What's the best way to get traction? Answer: Have as much weight over the driving wheels as possible. Front-drive cars start with an advantage -- but when any car accelerates, the front end tips up, and the rear end squats down. This transfers weight to the rear wheels -- away from the driving wheels in a FWD car but toward the driving wheels in a rear-drive car, where it adds to available traction. In effect, the laws of physics conspire to give RWD cars a bit more grip where they need it when they need it. (This salutary effect is more than canceled out in slippery, wet conditions, where you aren't going to stomp on the accelerator. Then, FWD cars have the edge, in part, because they start out with so much more of their weight over both the driving and the turning wheels. Also, it's simply more stable to pull a heavy wheeled object than to push it -- as any hotel bellhop steering a loaded luggage cart knows. In snow, FWD cars have a third advantage in that they pull the car through the path the front tires create, instead of turning the front tires into mini-snowplows.)

5) "Oversteer" and the Semi-Orgasmic Lock-In Effect: In a rear-drive car, there's a division of labor -- the front tires basically steer the car, and the rear tires push the car down the road. In a FWD car, the front tires do all the work – both steering and applying the power to the road – while the rears are largely along for the ride. That, it turns out, is asking a lot of the front tires. Since the driving wheels tend to lose traction first, the front tires of front-drive cars invariably start slipping in a corner before the lightly loaded rear tires do -- a phenomenon known as "understeer." If you go too fast into a curve -- I mean really too fast -- the car will plow off the road front end first. In rear-drive cars, the rear wheels tend to lose traction first, and the rear of the car threatens to swing around and pass the front end -- "oversteer." If you go too fast into a corner in an oversteering car, the car will tend to spin and fly off the road rear end first.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ingle.html

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PapakizSarajeva
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by PapakizSarajeva » 16/01/2012 09:05

Zadnji pogon kod mercedesa i bmw-a, nemaju nikakvih slicnosti sa zadnjim pogonom kod ferrary-ja i lamborghini-ja. Pogledajte polozaj motora, a samim tim i polozaj tezista automobila u odnosu na pogonske tockove (odnosno opterecenja na zadnje tockove) pa cete doci do istog zakljucka.

Vec 12 zadnjih godina vozim nekakve 4x4 i stalno sam imao probleme ( sa kojima sam doduse izlazio uvijek na kraj ) zimi kako po snijegu tako i po ledu kada sam vozio samo sa zadnjim pogonom, pogotovo kad sam bio sam u vozilu (dakle bez ikakvih dodatnih tereta i opterecenja). Pri svakom dodavanju gasa zadnji kraj auta je plesao, a da ne govorim sta mi se dogadjalo cak i pri malim promjenama pravca. Sada sam se urahatio jer vozim SUV sa konstantnim pogonom na sva cetiri tocka (plus svi ovi dodaci tipa ESP i sl.)

U svakom slucaju, kod luskuznih vozila ( koja nemaju mogucnosti QUATTRO, 4WD I SL.), u zimskim uslovima uvijek glasam za prednji pogon ...

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holowey
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by holowey » 16/01/2012 09:08

shin wrote:
Brdar wrote:zadnji pogon je jako nesiguran po zimi,kisi,ja nikad nebi vozio auto sa zadnjim pogonom a da nije quattro
3) "Torque Steer":
e zbog ovoga imati zadnji pogon je priceless...

nego, da se osvrnem na zadnji pogon i zimu...

pao snijeg, neocisceno brdo, i bmw se okrene u rikverc da se pokusa ispeti? ili to uradi auto sa prednjim pogonom? sve je do vozaca, ko zna zna, ko ne zna djaba mu sva elektronska pomagala i lanci

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2AK-47
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by 2AK-47 » 16/01/2012 09:11

nije ko ima nego ko je naučio

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piatc
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by piatc » 16/01/2012 09:14

Qler wrote:Ne treba nista u gepeku, samo dobre gume i znati kako sa gasom.
Samo ovo. E30 325i bez ikakvog pijeska i sa dobrim MS gumama me čitavu prošlu zimu vozio na Jahorinu bez ikakvih problema. Cestu čiste samo vikendom, tako da bi se pred kraj sedmice znalo desiti da je na cesti sloj leda pa preko njega sloj snijega i u takvim uslovima sam se nagledao više desetina zaglavljenih prednjepogonaša dok sam plovio pored njih. Nikakvo proklizavanje niti zanošenje, osim namjerno.

Kao što kolega koji me uputio u čari BMW-a zna reći: Postoje ljudi koji znaju voziti i postoje ljudi koji voze auta sa prednjim pogonom.
:thumbup:

goran16v
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by goran16v » 16/01/2012 09:16

Ma mi smo svi strucnjaci kad je rijec o autima i voznji... :lol:

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PapakizSarajeva
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by PapakizSarajeva » 16/01/2012 09:17

Pa evo ja imam konkretan prijedlog :

Hajde da se nadjemo na Bjelasnici i Igmanu par ljudi sa BMW-ima, Mercedesima ( zadnji pogon) i par ljudi sa Audijem i Passatom i da ove sve stvari odmah isprobamo na licu mjesta. Naci cemo adekvatnu strminu pod utabanim snijegom, cjelcom, a i moci testirati malo po krivinama na putu prema Sabicima ...

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alcho
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Re: Zadnji pogon zimi

Post by alcho » 16/01/2012 09:21

piatc wrote:
Qler wrote:Ne treba nista u gepeku, samo dobre gume i znati kako sa gasom.
Samo ovo. E30 325i bez ikakvog pijeska i sa dobrim MS gumama me čitavu prošlu zimu vozio na Jahorinu bez ikakvih problema. Cestu čiste samo vikendom, tako da bi se pred kraj sedmice znalo desiti da je na cesti sloj leda pa preko njega sloj snijega i u takvim uslovima sam se nagledao više desetina zaglavljenih prednjepogonaša dok sam plovio pored njih. Nikakvo proklizavanje niti zanošenje, osim namjerno.

Kao što kolega koji me uputio u čari BMW-a zna reći: Postoje ljudi koji znaju voziti i postoje ljudi koji voze auta sa prednjim pogonom.
:thumbup:
Ovakve ublehe su mi vazda najbolja argumentacija :lol: :lol:

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