Odlazak u Tekiju!

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paja patak
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#276 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by paja patak »

ljubav_aha wrote:
kamen spoticanja wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote: a ti si posebna prica,doticni je pisao o meni,a nikoga nije uopste pitao za misljenje o meni :lol:
nesto se ne sjecam da je i tebe iko pitao za misljenje o meni...pa si ga iznijela...dakle ovo je slobodan forum...i svako ima pravo pisati svasta...u okviru pravilima dozvoljenog...a psovanje to svakako nije ;-)
i ne prilici brate jednoj mladoj dami da psuje ;-)
misljenje o tebi pisem,kad ti se obratim :oops:

postedi me bonoton-iranja :mrgreen:
kupit cu ti ja jedan bonton :D
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ljubav_aha
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#277 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

bijela wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:
bijela,zasto se toliko pise o tome ,znaci svi prave senzaciju,cak i osobe koje profesionalno istrazuju doticnu oblast :!: :?:
da, ali te osobe koje istražuju dotičnu oblast ne prilaze joj jednostrano jer to nije u duhu akademske objektivnosti.

bijela,ipak je sumnjivo da vecina imaju takav "problem" :!: hvala
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BHF_Manijak
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#278 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by BHF_Manijak »

bijela wrote:
kamen spoticanja wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:eh to kult-iranje licnosti sejha je uzas :!:
ma niko nikog ba ne kultira...to se manijaku samo ucinilo ;-)
ne, fazon je napraviti senzaciju ovdje.
A fazon je i u tome da ti jedva docekas,kako mi se cini,da opletes po meni...nasla zrtveno janje na forumu :mrgreen:

Ja samo govorim na osnovu onoga sto sam vidio i sto vidim,a ne mora znaciti da je to generalno tako,ustvari i nije 100% no uvijek ima ljudi koji malo vise pretjeraju u necemu... :wink:
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kamen spoticanja
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#279 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

BHF_Manijak wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:eh to kult-iranje licnosti sejha je uzas :!:
Ma nije problem u sejhu kao sejhu,Nursi je jedna ljudska gormada bio,cak nije htio ni da mu se za mezar zna gdje je,upravo radi tih stvari,stvaranja kulta licnosti...I ja sam malo pretjerao sa izjavom,nije to sad toliko izrazeno,ali u jednoj mjeri jeste,po meni vise no treba...

@Kamen_spoticanja...Generalno gledajuci jesu sufije,Nurdzijskog pravca,slijede put Sajida Nursija,neizbjezna literatura kod nurdzija jeste Risala i nur(ah sta sam samo pridika o toj knjizi se naslusao :mrgreen: )Sajida Nursija,inace Nursijeve knjige su zaista beton,malo poteze ali se mogu citati,mislim da cak ovu Risalu i nur ubrajaju u tefsire,ne mogu se sjetiti,mogo bi na Arzuhal o tome sta reci,ako znaDE naravno i ako je upucen u ovaj pravac... :mrgreen:


Ince,nevezano za temu,preporucio bih ti Ljubav_aha,a i tebi Kamen_spoticanja,ako vas zanima naravno,knjigu "Povratak" od Halita Ertugrula,turski pisac,sjajna knjiga i najcescim pitanjima koja danasnjem covjeku mogu naumpasti i koja vecinom ateisti postavljaju,a i mi na samom startu naseg vjerovanja i preispitivanja...ima jos jedna knjiga od njega,ali ne mogu se tacnog naziva sjetit,nesto kao "Od sumnje do vjerovanja" ili sl :thumbup:
da otprilike to je i moje misljenje...no citao sam risale na turskom...doduse one se tesko moze nazvati turskim jezikom...i uz moje zaista solidno poznavanje tog jezika trebalo mi je jos 6 turaka da zajednicki savladamo ono sto je nursi pisao...no zaista si upravu...briljantan je ;-)
nego bosanska filija hizmecara vidim radi punom parom...prevodi nursijevih i gulenovih knjiga su na svakom koraku :thumbup:
cak su gulena pominjali u zadnjem broju preporoda kao kontratezu s. huntigtonu i njegovom sukobu civilizacija...
mora se priznat rade ko singerice...
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kamen spoticanja
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#280 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

ljubav_aha wrote: a stalno pises redke meni ili o meni ,haman na svkoj temi :lol:
:-) ima i za tebe doktor :D
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bijela
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#281 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by bijela »

ljubav_aha wrote:
bijela wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:
bijela,zasto se toliko pise o tome ,znaci svi prave senzaciju,cak i osobe koje profesionalno istrazuju doticnu oblast :!: :?:
da, ali te osobe koje istražuju dotičnu oblast ne prilaze joj jednostrano jer to nije u duhu akademske objektivnosti.

bijela,ipak je sumnjivo da vecina imaju takav "problem" :!: hvala
eto, to je ta neakademština i neupoznavanje sa materijom sa svih strana.

@manijak - obraćala sam se ljubavi :razz: , biž tamo na VDŽ, ovo nije za maloljetničke uši
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#282 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

BHF_Manijak wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:eh to kult-iranje licnosti sejha je uzas :!:
Ma nije problem u sejhu kao sejhu,Nursi je jedna ljudska gormada bio,cak nije htio ni da mu se za mezar zna gdje je,upravo radi tih stvari,stvaranja kulta licnosti...I ja sam malo pretjerao sa izjavom,nije to sad toliko izrazeno,ali u jednoj mjeri jeste,po meni vise no treba...

@Kamen_spoticanja...Generalno gledajuci jesu sufije,Nurdzijskog pravca,slijede put Sajida Nursija,neizbjezna literatura kod nurdzija jeste Risala i nur(ah sta sam samo pridika o toj knjizi se naslusao :mrgreen: )Sajida Nursija,inace Nursijeve knjige su zaista beton,malo poteze ali se mogu citati,mislim da cak ovu Risalu i nur ubrajaju u tefsire,ne mogu se sjetiti,mogo bi na Arzuhal o tome sta reci,ako znaDE naravno i ako je upucen u ovaj pravac... :mrgreen:


Ince,nevezano za temu,preporucio bih ti Ljubav_aha,a i tebi Kamen_spoticanja,ako vas zanima naravno,knjigu "Povratak" od Halita Ertugrula,turski pisac,sjajna knjiga i najcescim pitanjima koja danasnjem covjeku mogu naumpasti i koja vecinom ateisti postavljaju,a i mi na samom startu naseg vjerovanja i preispitivanja...ima jos jedna knjiga od njega,ali ne mogu se tacnog naziva sjetit,nesto kao "Od sumnje do vjerovanja" ili sl :thumbup:
hvala BHF_Manijak ,ali ostajem u sektoru enciklopedija
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ljubav_aha
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#283 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

bijela wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:
bijela wrote: da, ali te osobe koje istražuju dotičnu oblast ne prilaze joj jednostrano jer to nije u duhu akademske objektivnosti.

bijela,ipak je sumnjivo da vecina imaju takav "problem" :!: hvala
eto, to je ta neakademština i neupoznavanje sa materijom sa svih strana.

@manijak - obraćala sam se ljubavi :razz: , biž tamo na VDŽ, ovo nije za maloljetničke uši
bijela,nesto ipak ne stima,nemoguce je da cak i jedan dio manjine ima doticni problem,pa nisu svi obrazovani pogresnom literaturom :!:
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kamen spoticanja
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#284 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

lilla wrote:
kamen spoticanja wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote: a stalno pises redke meni ili o meni ,haman na svkoj temi :lol:
:-) ima i za tebe doktor :D
vas dvoje isto djeca kad se posvađaju :D :-)
ne znas ti da sam ja jednu vakvu ozenio :D i iz iskustva znam da je lakse medjedu objasnit neke stvari...
doduse ova moja ne psuje ko neke :D
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#285 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

kamen spoticanja wrote:ne znas ti da sam ja jednu vakvu ozenio :D i iz iskustva znam da je lakse medjedu objasnit neke stvari...
doduse ova moja ne psuje ko neke :D
oh,pa tu ja razlog jasan: ona je hasanaginica koja psuje u sebi ,a ti nisi ni hasan ni aga :D :lol:
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kamen spoticanja
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#286 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

ljubav_aha wrote:
kamen spoticanja wrote:ne znas ti da sam ja jednu vakvu ozenio :D i iz iskustva znam da je lakse medjedu objasnit neke stvari...
doduse ova moja ne psuje ko neke :D
oh,pa tu ja razlog jasan: ona je hasanaginica,a ti nisi ni hasna ni aga :D :lol:
velis :-) nego nesto mi sad sumnjivo plaho...jesi se to opet negdje pronasla :dance: :D
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kamen spoticanja
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#287 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

lilla wrote:
kamen spoticanja wrote: ne znas ti da sam ja jednu vakvu ozenio :D i iz iskustva znam da je lakse medjedu objasnit neke stvari...
doduse ova moja ne psuje ko neke :D

Nemoj se samo služiti onim: i medo igra kad prut zaigra :D
yok canim...zanat sam ispekao...zar se ne vidi iz prilozenog :D
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#288 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

kamen spoticanja wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote:
kamen spoticanja wrote:ne znas ti da sam ja jednu vakvu ozenio :D i iz iskustva znam da je lakse medjedu objasnit neke stvari...
doduse ova moja ne psuje ko neke :D
oh,pa tu ja razlog jasan: ona je hasanaginica,a ti nisi ni hasna ni aga :D :lol:
velis :-) nego nesto mi sad sumnjivo plaho...jesi se to opet negdje pronasla :dance: :D

to ti zelis :D Boze sacuvaj :lol:
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bijela
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#289 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by bijela »

ljubav_aha wrote: bijela,nesto ipak ne stima,nemoguce je da cak i jedan dio manjine ima doticni problem,pa nisu svi obrazovani pogresnom literaturom :!:
ne znam ko sa čim ima problema, ali znam da većina savremenih (neću govoriti o prošlim) intelektualaca ima pozitivno mišljenje o sufizmu. da je kult šejha opšte uvriježena stvar u sufizmu, ne bi ni oni imali pozitivno mišljenje.

sad ako ćeš mi porediti s. jasevića (i ljude njegovog profila) sa s.h.nasrom, m. lingsom, hafizovićem (i ljudima njihovog profila) - onda nećemo imati o čemu pričati.
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kamen spoticanja
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#290 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

ljubav_aha wrote:to ti zelis :D Boze sacuvaj :lol:
tjesi se ti tjesi...u postu se pominjali medvjedi i oni sto psuju... :D uglavnom ;-)
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#291 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

bijela wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote: bijela,nesto ipak ne stima,nemoguce je da cak i jedan dio manjine ima doticni problem,pa nisu svi obrazovani pogresnom literaturom :!:
ne znam ko sa čim ima problema, ali znam da većina savremenih (neću govoriti o prošlim) intelektualaca ima pozitivno mišljenje o sufizmu. da je kult šejha opšte uvriježena stvar u sufizmu, ne bi ni oni imali pozitivno mišljenje.

sad ako ćeš mi porediti s. jasevića (i ljude njegovog profila) sa s.h.nasrom, m. lingsom, hafizovićem (i ljudima njihovog profila) - onda nećemo imati o čemu pričati.

ali isto tako ima intelektualaca koji posjeduju odlicno znanje,ali su putem istih,slicnih i razlicitih izvora zakljucili i negativne elemente

ma jasevic je samo jednom spomenut,on me najmanje sekira :lol:

mene brine sto je uzrok posotojanja suprotnih misljenja kod inteletkualaca koji su vrlo dobro potokovani :!:
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bijela
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#292 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by bijela »

ljubav_aha wrote: ali isto tako ima intelektualaca koji posjeduju odlicno znanje,ali su putem istih,slicnih i razlicitih izvora zakljucili i negativne elemente

ma jasevic je samo jednom spomenut,on me najmanje sekira :lol:

mene brine sto je uzrok posotojanja suprotnih misljenja kod inteletkualaca koji su vrlo dobro potokovani :!:
daj mi njihova imena.
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kamen spoticanja
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#293 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

ljubav_aha wrote: mene brine:!:
:-)
evo abla tebi za lahku noc

tvoja najdraza :D
hajd hajirli dzuma
selam alejk :)
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osmanlija
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#294 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by osmanlija »

Kamen spoticanja je napisao:
deder ahbab nemoj se sekirat...ovde zene tako rade :D
a mlada dama tek treba da nauci osnove lijepog ponasanja...nego nek si ti nama ziv i zdrav...i nis se ne sekirat ;-)
Ih, da sam se tako sikiro...
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kamen spoticanja
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#295 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by kamen spoticanja »

osmanlija wrote: Ih, da sam se tako sikiro...
:thumbup: ;-)
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#296 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

bijela wrote:
ljubav_aha wrote: ali isto tako ima intelektualaca koji posjeduju odlicno znanje,ali su putem istih,slicnih i razlicitih izvora zakljucili i negativne elemente

ma jasevic je samo jednom spomenut,on me najmanje sekira :lol:

mene brine sto je uzrok posotojanja suprotnih misljenja kod inteletkualaca koji su vrlo dobro potokovani :!:
daj mi njihova imena.

"Many of the traditions about the life of Muhammad which are often referred to by Sufis are not found in the major hadith collections (Bukhari, Muslim, Kulayni, Ibn Babuya), having been rejected by the collectors as unsound.15 However, within Sufi spheres the traditions are maintained - and viewed by Sufis as giving full legitimacy to the Sufi way of Islam. Yet, as Andrew Rippin suggests, “[this] simply indicates that they [Sufis] have, like all other Muslims, always gone back to the prime sources of Islam for inspiration as well as justification of their position.”16 The ulama regarding the shari‘a as the organizing principle in the life of the Islamic community, as the revealed way - guaranteed by Allah; have and continue to largely oppose Sufism.17 As one scholar has stated, “[opponents] have never been wanting; [Sufis’] beliefs have been refuted, their practices condemned, their dervishes ridiculed and occasionally executed, and their shaikhs castigated.”18 Thus the question remains whether the Quran and sunna were used for justification or inspiration, an area requiring extensive research which does not yet seem to have been undertaken. "



Sufism:
An Interview with Imam Mohamad M. Algalaleni

Imam Mohamad M. Algalaleni, is the leader of the London Mosque, and has lived in Canada for five years. A Syrian by birth, the Imam studied the Quran, Islamic theology, and law, for twelve years in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Imam Mohamad M. Algalaleni’s grandfather was a Sufi leader. These questions were put to him as part of the initial research towards this paper in Islamic studies at The University of Western Ontario. The purpose of the interview was to gain an understanding of the present day view of Sunni Muslim clerics towards Sufism, as well as to attempt to discern the influences of Sufism upon North American Muslims. The interview took place on March 19, 1996.

1. Was Sufism present from the very beginnings of Islam, in the life of Muhammad and in the Quran?

In regards to the history of Sufism, the Holy Quran and the sunna of the Prophet don’t actually mention this word. However, the main idea behind Sufism was in the Holy Quran and the sunna. In other words, Allah urged the Muslims to purify themselves from diseases and from evil in general, and this is the main purpose, in my opinion, behind Sufism. But, this title, this word [Sufism or tasawwuf], isn’t found at all in the Quran or the sunna. This title actually came into being some 200 years later.

2. One author of a book on Sufism states that Sufism is presently “frowned upon by Muslim orthodoxy.” Other scholars, such as Fazlur Rahman, argue that Sufism contained many un-Islamic influences, but that these were corrected by Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, who purified Sufism and made it a legitimate part of Islam. Which do you feel is correct, and why?

I think the reason behind Sufism was the materialism which the Muslim society faced at the time, as the Muslim society had become more and more widespread and wealthy. Materialism infected the hearts of many Muslims, and then those [Sufi] scholars came forward with the call to “go back to your God, purify yourself, go back to the reality of Islam.” They told the people not to be influenced by materialism, that they had to be closer to Allah, that they had to practice their religion, and remember the approaching hereafter. This is the reason why Sufism was establsihed at the time - because of the civilization which took place in the Western society at that time.

3. An important and influential Sufi living after al-Ghazali was Ibn al-‘Arabi. al-‘Arabi stated “When you know yourself, your ‘I’ness vanishes and you know that you and Allah are one and the same.” This clearly states the belief that everything that exists is one, having the same essence and reality. Is this contrary to orthodox Islam? How have Muslim scholars responded to al-‘Arabi’s teachings?

Actually, all the scholars, or at least the majority of them did not accept what Ibn Arabi brought to the Islamic thinking or belief. Because, as you know, Islam is based on the ‘oneness’ or tawhid, a Muslim should worship Allah alone, and Allah Almighty is not, or we as human beings are not part of Allah. Thus Ibn Arabi’s concepts created divisions or differentiation between scholars and himself. Up to today, many scholars have written books against Arabi’s ideas, even though some of his students try to defend Ibn Arabi by saying he didn’t mean what people understood him to teach - that mankind and God are one unit. Yet the majority of Muslims rejected Arabi’s teaching because it is the opposite of tawhid, of oneness; believing in Allah. Nonetheless, I feel that this kind of high feeling [in Ibn Arabi] was because he was very sensitive towards God and as a result said this teaching - actually this teaching was mistaken; but maybe he didn’t mean it in this way. There are people who didn’t go deeply into his philosophy and blamed him... but this is actually a long story. In conclusion, I would say that we don’t agree with this statement anyway.

4. Do Sufis have their own separate set of hadith or traditions, supporting their beliefs? Do they interpret parts of the Quran differently than other Muslims?

Sufism considers the two main sources, the Quran and the sunna. However, on occasion they explained some of the sayings of the Quran and the sunna in different ways. That is, some but not all of these. The verses which relate to the purpose of Sufism - purifying the soul - they [Sufis] talk about these verses deeply, and maybe sometimes they added some meaning which other scholars don’t agree with. But all of them, the Sufis, agreed on one thing - that there were two sources for authority, the Quran and the sunna.


5. In the regions of India and Pakistan, Sufism seems to have had a particularly strong impact. Yet, many Sufis in these areas seem to be influenced by Hinduism. One author, Martin Lings, who is a practicing Sufi, quite boldly states that “Prince Dara Shikoh (or Shukuh), the Sufi son of the Mogul Emporer Shah Jahan, was able to affirm that Sufism and Advaita Vendantism (Hinduism) are essentially the same, with a surface difference in terminology.” Another Muslim scholar, Seyyed Hossein Nasr states that the “orthodox Naqshbandi saint Mirza Mazhar Jan Janan considered the Hindu Vedas as divinely inspired.” According to orthodox Islam, are these types of statements correct? Why is it that Sufism seems so prone to the influences of other religions such as Hinduism, which are in many ways contrary to the Islamic standards of monotheism?

Actually, I think - this is a personal opinion - for those who are in India, Muslims, Hindus who claim that Hinduism and Sufism are the same or equal; it is in my opinion wrong, absolutely wrong. Environments affect the people who live in them - this is a usual issue as you know. Perhaps Muslims in India became closer to Sufism because of their environment. This may be because Bhuddism and Hinduism take care of these issues - spiritual issues.. but in a different way.

I have an idea about the Naqshbandi because we have those in my country - in Syria, and in Turkey. They are Muslims, and they don’t believe in Hinduism at all, they practice Islam. Maybe the author who wrote this statement noticed the appearance of both groups but didn’t go deeply by studying these circumstances for Muslims and non-Muslims in India. But they are different, even though some authority stated this statement.

6. What does Sufism offer as an aspect of Islam, especially in comparison to the Islamic sharia? Is it a search for a more spiritual dimension in response to the traditional legal nature of Islam?

Sufism gives special attention for the spiritual issues, because they believe that when a Muslim has good faith and good spiritual life then he will be a good Muslim. He will practice Islam perfectly, and he will follow the sharia - the Islamic law at the same time. So they insisted on this point of rituals... Yes, I agree with you. As I mentioned at the beginning the reason behind that is materialism which established shortly before Sufism, then this movement we consider it as a reaction in our Islamic history. Even now some Muslims are following Sufism, for the same reasons. As you know as well, the whole world is running to materialism.

7. To what extent are Sufi ideas and practices influential among Muslims in Canada and the United States? Are there Sufi orders present here in North America?

Actually, the Sufism movement in Canada and North America is very weak in my opinion, because Sufism depends on shaikhs [guru-type leaders], special scholars who lead their students, teaching them and watching them, and we don’t have those scholars to lead this movement. This is largely because no shaikhs will come from the Middle East because of the materialism in North America - they cannot live here. However, maybe some people, probably very few, had involvement with Sufism before, when they were still in their countries, and they still have it inside their hearts. And perhaps they practice it partially, but they cannot practice it completely because there is no Sufism without shaikhs, without religious leaders, at all.

8. Where, in the world today, is Sufism the most prevalent?

I don’t know the exact proportions, but India, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, and some in Syria. But the first four are the main countries where Sufism takes place.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sufism or Tassawuf .Therefore is not a new sect, innovation or reaction but rather an inner dimensional part of Islam, which was referred to as Ihsan by the prophet in the famous tradition known as Hadith Jibril[10]. It is understood and taught as an Islamic discipline, like Quranic exegesis (Tafsir), Ahadith, Quran recital (tajweed), tenents of faith or any other, each of which have preserved some particular aspect of the religion[11].

Although, Tassawuf was not present in the time of the prophet as a science or discipline, yet the prophet taught it and enlightened his companions with its noor (light) as he was the fountain of all knowledge of external and internal aspects of the deen. Thus, the companions did not need to develop any regulations or sciences for each discipline as the prophet was the fountain of guidance. However after the prophet the scholars of the Ummah specialised, taught and propagated each of the branches of knowledge such as: Aqaid (theology), fiqh (jurisprudence) and Tassawuf (spirituality), as they could not attain the perfection of the prophet in encompassing all knowledges and assuming all the various roles.

Nonetheless in order to reach the level of Ihsan (perfection) Muslims need to strive and struggle to attain the pleasure, closeness and love of Allah through muraaqaba (meditation), mujahada (struggle), tafakkur (reflection), tadabbur(contemplation), mushahdah, Ikhlas(sincerity), taqwa(piety), zuhd(renunciation), zikr (rememberance), shukr (gratitude) and sabar(patience) which are all subjects of Tassawuf derived from the Quran and sunnah. As the great Imaam Junayd al Baghdadi said “This knowledge of ours is built of the Quran and sunnah”[12]

[11](N.keller(1995) Sufism is not Bidah cited in http://sunnah.org/tasawwuf/sufisnk.htm)

[12] ( Keller. N (1994) Reliance of the Traveller: revised Edition . Amana publications. USA)


A Glimpse at Sufism in the Balkans

Huseyin Abiva


sto je vec spomenuo arzulah,kao i ja u jednom od prethodnih pisanja o radu sufija na balkanu

"These early Sufis often established zawiyas or hospices that served not only as symbols of Ottoman authority over a newly conquered region but as bases for the diffusion of Islam among the local people. Two of these distinguished hospices were established in the Bosnian city of Sarajevo immediately after the conquest of the area in 1463. Both of these were built through grants made by local Ottoman notables and administered by members of the Naqshibandi Order. Later, as imperial administration became more entrenched and the Islamic religious establishment more present, tekkes were built to cater to the spiritual needs of the dervishes and local populations"

"In other areas of the Balkans, such as Bosnia-Hercegovina and in large urban centers (in both where their functioning was limited due the strength of the orthodox Sunni establishment), the Bektashi found restricted appeal and were limited in operation to the Janissary garrisons. These tekkes were established as a result of the Ottoman military presence and disappeared as that crumbled."

"At the beginning of the 17th century, two more tariqats, the Qadiris and the Mevlevis, were to make their appearance in the Balkans, both of which were to play an important role in the Sufism in the region. The Qadiri Order began to fan out from its base in Istanbul under the initiative of Shaykh Ismail Rumi "

"As the Qadiris made their entrance into the Balkan Peninsula, so did the order founded by the great mystic Jalaluddin Rumi. In a short space of fifty years the Mevlevis were able to establish noticeable tekkes in Plovdiv, Serres, Salonika, Elbasan, Skopje, Belgrad, Pécs (in Hungary) and Sarajevo. Due to the highly sophisticated outlook of the order, its appeal was generally restricted to the cities and to the educated elite. During the Ottoman era, scores of Balkan Mevlevis ranked among the finest literati of the empire. Such figures as Habib Dede (d.1643), Fevzi Mostarac (d.1707) and Fazil Pata Šerifovic (d.1882) left their indelible mark on Ottoman religious literature."

"However, due to the limited attraction of the order and its elaborate ceremonies, which required considerable practice, the Mevlevis soon vanished from the Balkans once the Ottoman Empire left the region and the main center of Konya was later closed by Atatürk. The last functioning Mevlevi establishment in the Balkans was located in the city of Skopje. It was demolished in the 1950’s after its last shaykh, Hakki Dede left for Turkey."

"The end of Ottoman rule in Bosnia-Hercegovina in 1878 did not spell the end of Sufism in the area. Though greatly affected by a mass migration of a considerable portion of the Muslim population out of the province, several new Sufi shaykhs managed to establish new centers of influence in Bosnia. For instance, the Naqshibandi-Khalidi Order was introduced into central Bosnia by Mufti Shaykh Husnija Numanagic (d.1931) and the Halveti-Sabanis of Shaykh Sejfudin Iblizovic (d.1889) opened tekkes in the northeastern parts of the country. During the Austro-Hugarian occupation, Sufis were allowed to maintain their contacts with their brethren elsewhere in the Muslim World"

"Following the end of WWII and the establishment of communist rule over Yugoslavia, a period of general decline marked the Sufi Orders. In 1952 all tariqat activities were banned, not as might be though by the communist government, but by the modernist minded `ulama of the government sanctioned Islamic Community, who saw the orders and their shaykhs as a remnant of archaic superstition and innovation. As a result all tekkes were officially closed in Bosnia-Hercegovina, but they continued to function in Kosova and Macedonia simply because there the shaykhs’ residences were often the tekke itself."

"
During the wars that racked Yugoslavia between 1991-1995, the Sufi Orders and their followers played an active role in the defense of the Muslim community against the might of Serb and Croat aggression. Shaykhs of both the Naqshibandi and Qadiri tariqats had their dervishes formed into fighting units that took to the fronts notably in central Bosnian and along the Brcko corridor. The current situation for Sufism in Bosnia-Hercegovina is bright. Never having had the stigma of heresy attached to it, Sufism is accepted overall by both the religious establishment (many of whose members are openly involved in the orders) and the laity. Except for the Wahhabi presence that has now invaded Bosnia thanks to missionaries of the sect from Arab countries, the legitimacy of Islamic mysticism was never in question both during the Ottoman period and at the present."


TAJANSTVENOST SUFIZMA:

-jedan od glavnih uzroka sukoba je : sufizam ,misticizam i ezotericki prevod Kur'an :!:
-postavlja se pitanje:kako neko ko odluci na pravi put zna ko mu je najbolji ucitelj :!:
-sufijska terminologija jos nije dovoljno objasnjena ,vrlo je bazirana na individualnim iskustvima , a tremini nisu smao koritsteni iz Kur'an vec i iz hadisa ,i mnogi sufijski pravci su uveli svoje termine :!: ZASTO :?:

ovaj dio sufuzma niko nikad nece biti u mogucnosti u potpunosti razumjeti jer je pristup vlro individulan :!:
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arzuhal
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#297 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by arzuhal »

Man'te se svojih iskustava o bilo čemu! Dajte šta c/p! Šta, bio u Indiji? To se ne pika ako nisi gledao Indiju na slikama...
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paja patak
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#298 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by paja patak »

arzuhal wrote:Man'te se svojih iskustava o bilo čemu! Dajte šta c/p! Šta, bio u Indiji? To se ne pika ako nisi gledao Indiju na slikama...
:lol: :lol: :thumbup:
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bijela
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#299 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by bijela »

ljubav_aha wrote:
bijela wrote:
daj mi njihova imena.
pazi, stvarno nisam htjela čitati još tekstova, dok iščitam izvorove imat ću dovoljno materijala za izradu magistarske teze. s druge strane, htjela sam ići "tvojim putem" i razgovarati o savremenim intelektualcima liberalnijeg pogleda na islamski život.

no, otkud ovolika razlika pa mi ti (koja plaho ne fermaš hadisku tradiciju) spominješ imena Buharija i Muslima? ko je taj imam londonske džamije pa da o njegovom intervjuu raspravljamo u ovom smislu (bez ikakvih predrasuda, ali ne vidjeh njegovo ime ni u kakvoj fus-noti)?

raspravljajući na ovom temi mislim da ćeš se najprije sporazumjeti sa izvorom istine, s kojim inače ne diješ nikakav drugi pogled na svijet. jesu li to dvostruki aršini?

rizikujući da ispadnem površna reći ću da stvarno nisam ni pročitala ovaj tekst koji si postirala, ne volim duge c/p stvari. pročitah samo obojeno i ne shvatih o čemu sada razgovaramo. evo na primjer:
Sufism gives special attention for the spiritual issues, because they believe that when a Muslim has good faith and good spiritual life then he will be a good Muslim. He will practice Islam perfectly, and he will follow the sharia - the Islamic law at the same time. So they insisted on this point of rituals...
šta je problematično u ovom iskazu?

no, preskočimo tuđi govor. da vidimo ono o čemu ti pitaš
TAJANSTVENOST SUFIZMA:

-jedan od glavnih uzroka sukoba je : sufizam ,misticizam i ezotericki prevod Kur'an :!:
gdje je to draga ezoterički komentar Kur'ana uzrok sukoba? ne može jer on ne govori o društvu, a sukobi su u društvu. ezoterički komentar Kur'ana govori o unutrašnim čovjekovim svjetovima, o tom poznatom mikrokosmosu naših duša.
-postavlja se pitanje:kako neko ko odluci na pravi put zna ko mu je najbolji ucitelj :!:
zato što provjeri posjeduje li taj čovjek (šejh) sve one kvalitete koje treba posjedovati jedan izniman vjernik od njegove vjere, prakse i "pretjerane" pobožnosti do njegovog čuvenja. i to sve ako osjeća u sebi da mu treba konkretni, tu-prisutni vodič.
kako ti znaš vrijedi li pročitati knjigu od određenog autora?
-sufijska terminologija jos nije dovoljno objasnjena ,vrlo je bazirana na individualnim iskustvima , a tremini nisu smao koritsteni iz Kur'an vec i iz hadisa ,i mnogi sufijski pravci su uveli svoje termine :!: ZASTO :?:
kako nije dovoljno objašnjena? vidi gore šta nam je c/p izvor o sufijskoj terminologiji. zašto nauka o hadisu ima svoju terminologiju, zašto filozofija ima svoju terminologiju, zašto Hegel ima svoj posebni jezik?
otkud tolika uskogrudnost u svekolikom ogromnom carstvu islama na koje se svi pozivamo?
ma daj Boga ti.
ovaj dio sufuzma niko nikad nece biti u mogucnosti u potpunosti razumjeti jer je pristup vlro individulan :!:
tesavvuf i jeste individualan, kakvo bi inače pregnuće na putu ka Bogu moglo biti? kolektivno? sumnjam.

vidi, meni uopšte nije stalo do toga da ti ili bilo ko postane simpatizer tesavvufa, ali ako ćemo se već razbacivati znanjem i pameću red bi bio da na takav - naučan - način pristupimo i tesavvufu. dakle, sa svih strana, ne selektivno.

i sjetit ćeš se da davno rekoh kako ne želim ulaziti u forumsku raspravu o tesavvufu upravo iz razloga polovičnog poznavanja koje se ponavlja na ovim stranicama. no, pošto sam već sebi dopustila da se uvučem u raspravu, zbog bošnjačkog inata i bosanske tvrde glave - ovo ćemo istjerati na čistac.

ako pristaješ na debatu, hajdemo ustanoviti neka pravila:
1. nema c/p tekstova, najviše može biti rečenica-citat
2. postavljena pitanja mogu sadržavati naviše do 5-6 riječi, budući da preveliko pitanje gubi smisao i suštinu.
3. razgovaramo o tesavvufu, ne nužno o svim ljudima koji sebe nazivaju sufijama. isto kao što kada govorim o šerijatu - govorim o Zakonu, ne i pravnoj praksi muslimana u pojedinoj državi.
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#300 Re: Odlazak u Tekiju!

Post by ljubav_aha »

bijela,pitanja koja sam postavila,sa i danas postavljaju i istrazuju od strane akdemika,jednostavno sufizam nije dovljno istrazen,u kopiranim tekstovima su postavljena imena,jer si me pitala,naravno,poslala sam ti P.P.
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