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#26
Posted: 24/01/2005 16:00
by sekiracija1
Ma sta vas briga
vazno je da imate jaku dijasporu
Jer oni koji su jos u Bosni ili su zaduzeni za cuvanje nekretnina(starci)ili su tajkuni,a o vim trecim se nema sta reci ,njima je kako da Bog
#27 Treba frku napraviti
Posted: 24/01/2005 16:01
by darky
Mislim da se treba dici i napraviti frku u sarajevu. Oni gore trose grdne pare na toalet papire i na odijela, a zna se ko ce to placati. Mi i nasa djeca. jest da smo svi vjerovatno mladi da razmisljamo o djeci ali tako ce biti ako nastave dalje ovako. Pitam se samo gdje je kraj ovim ludostima. Svi kradu a niko ne reaguje. Kao da smo zamrli. Dobro kaze ova mala camelina, prije su studenti bili strah i trepet. Mislim da bi i dana s moglo biti tako. Mala je vjerovatnoca da ce sminkeri i babini sinovi podrzati bilo koga jer je njima fino, ali mora se neko pobuniti protiv sranja koja nam se desavaju.
Neka ovo bude nasa space kafana pa mozda se i izrodi stagod,
Pobuna do jajajavascript:emoticon(':evil:')
Evil or Very Mad
#28
Posted: 24/01/2005 16:10
by rajvosa
#29
Posted: 24/01/2005 16:13
by camelina
nidje veze!
pojasni, garant spremas ispit pa ti u glavu udarilo
#30
Posted: 24/01/2005 16:15
by rajvosa
camelina wrote:
nidje veze!
pojasni, garant spremas ispit pa ti u glavu udarilo
Davno sam ja spremao ispite...Doslo vrijeme da ispitujem
#31
Posted: 24/01/2005 16:24
by EecC
reaktor wrote:camelina duso
znas li ti da revolucija jede svoju djecu... nego, uhvati se ti knjige i jan-feb rokova, pa kada lijepo narastes razmisli jos jednom... mozda ti do tada bude sasvim svejedno
smack, ti si zaista u nekom gadnom loopu, sta mislis da te resetujem?
#32 Re: Da vas sada vidimo?
Posted: 24/01/2005 23:20
by :)
#33
Posted: 24/01/2005 23:24
by winetou
Avangardan10 wrote:Chat Nick wrote:Avangardan10 wrote:
U parvu si care nigdje nema takve zemlje kao sto je Bosna!
dali je to dobro ili lose?
dobro bolan... pa evo ovdje u svici
oni koji rade imaju love , zive solidno, ali su stalno pod nekim stresom
pa oni lijezu i ustaju u strahu za posao , pa ovdje ne mozes zivjet ni mjesec ako ne radis, a uBosni ljudi godinama zive bez posla i bez plate...
Ma vara se svako kao misli da na zapadu cvjetaju ruze,,..
, al ima nešto u tome, što jest jest.
#34
Posted: 24/01/2005 23:36
by :)
sustinski problem je u sistemu...
cinjenica je da sve zemlje koje su prosle kroz tranziciju- komunizam u kapitalizam su ustvari prolazile kroz manju ili vecu socijalnu krizu, nedostatak zaposlenja itd...
ovisno o kvalitetu vlasti taj proces je tekao brze ili sporije.
e nas problem je sto je sistem podesen da stiti nacionalne interese. sve ostalo je nebitno osim toga da budu zasticeni nacionalni interesi tri konstitutivna naroda. jebes ekonomiju, jebes pomirenje, bitno je da smo mi podijeljeni u svakom aspektu zivota: na srbe , hrvate i bosnjake.
tako je nasa izvrsna, zakonodavna a donekle i sudska vlast postala svrha sama sebi, sto je kao sto znamo, apsurd...
vecina rasprava u vlasti se svodi zapravo na grabljenje fotelja a ne na donosenje nekog zakona...
u stvari, zakonodavna vlast uopste ne funkcionise zadnjih par mjeseci, tako da nam je drzava jednim dijelom paralizovana.
eto tako je to, dakle moramo ukinuti entitete i kantone, a to se nece desiti dok se studenti BiH ne ujedine, dakle sami Bog zna kada
#35
Posted: 25/01/2005 00:56
by Vodenjak
Zox wrote:Sto bi rekao jedan ugledni clan foruma, sad smo barem "svoji na svom"
#36
Posted: 25/01/2005 01:25
by hananah
A zasto zacitavate temu, i zasto se svadjate na njoj
Je li vam zbilja svejedno kuda nas politicari vode
Da li kao stoka trebamo mirno stajati kad ih kolju, pa i ovce zableje kad im se noz pod grlo stavi, samo mi ne, sutimo, ponosni Bosanci
ili sta li
Stulic kaze: Zbog cega primatima nikad ne iskljucuju elektriku, oni u principu i onako rijetko citaju, a i to sto citaju krive stvari citaju, pa zasto im onda ne iskljucuju elektriku...
Moja skolska prijateljica koja je bas dobro voljela Stulica se ubila prije par godina. Zasto li? Zato (procitajte prvi post na temi)
#37
Posted: 25/01/2005 01:54
by kekec
Valjda ce doci dan, kada ce mnogi shvatiti, da su crkve i dzamije samo OBJEKTI
koji ne stvaraju dohodak, ne ostvaruju profit (istina, cine to za pojedine-odabrane).
Doci ce valjda dan, kada ce otvaranje fabrika i stvaranje uslova za zaposljavanje
strucnih ljudi (koji danas besposleni lutaju) znaciti mnogo vise od "zastite nacionalnih interesa".
A da dodje taj dan, treba ukloniti ove koji danas vladaju (zapravo nas "vozaju").
Jedini nacin za njihovo uklanjanje su IZBORI. Zbog toga, iskoristite svoje pravo i glasajte, ne (opet) za njih,
nego za one koji su bolji od njih. A te cete lako prepoznati, samo ako se malo potrudite kada za to dodje vrijeme.
#38
Posted: 25/01/2005 02:07
by :)
ne znam sta imas protiv crkava i dzamija...
meni je drago sto se one grade....
jer neko i tu dzamiju mora napravit, a to znaci da ima posla bilo kakvog...
a ko god da dodje na vlast bice isto, jer sistem skoro da sili ljude da budu lopovi...
#39 Re: Da vas sada vidimo?
Posted: 25/01/2005 02:27
by digger
camelina wrote:Pozdrav svima!
Hajde da pokrenemo pitanje organizovanja revolucije kojom bi se sadasnja garnitura idiotiziranih politicara zbacila sa vlasti i javno izvrgnula kamenovanju ogorcenih narodnih masa.
Studenti su nekada bili strah i trepet i sve se cinilo da se zadovolje njihovi interesi. Danas su studenti neorganizovana gomila cije apatiju politicari koriste da materijalno obezbjede svojih X pokoljenja.
Studenti, radnici... recite NE idiotima!!!
A ja cu k'o papiga: posjeti http://www.ulbih.netfirms.com
#40
Posted: 25/01/2005 02:35
by kekec
ne znam sta imas protiv crkava i dzamija...
Cak naprotiv. Zahvaljujuci njima narod nema hrane, a nije gladan. Nema posla, a ima para. Sve tone i propada, a narod sretan i zadovoljan, jos pjeva. A kako i ne bi, kada im se nacionalni interesi tako dobro "cuvaju".
jer neko i tu dzamiju mora napravit, a to znaci da ima posla bilo kakvog...
Zna se ko pravi te objekte. Dobrovoljni prilozi i dobrovoljni rad. Nema tu zarade za radnike. I koliko vremena treba da se jedan takav objekat sagradi. E, sve to uporedi sa jednom prosjecnom, nekadasnjom fabrikom/tvornicom.
a ko god da dodje na vlast bice isto, jer sistem skoro da sili ljude da budu lopovi...
Valjda ima ljudi koji su sposobni da bar zapocnu mjenjanje onoga sto u danasnjem sistemu ne funkcionise. Ima i oni treba da su vlast, a ne ovi koji su se nakrali ili stite lopove. Ako je promjenjen sistem u toliko drzava, koji je ipak bio mnogo cvrsci od ovog naseg danasnjeg, nema razloga, da se i ovaj nas, nazovi sistem, ne rasprsi kao mjehur od sapunice. Za to je potrebno vrlo malo, ali od strane svih koji danas zive, a ne znaju kako prezivljavaju. IZBORI i ne glasati za ove danasnje, a onda ce se poceti kretati ka boljem.
#41 Re: Da vas sada vidimo?
Posted: 25/01/2005 02:51
by _MaYa_
camelina wrote:Pozdrav svima!
U nasoj drzavi stanje je krajnje kriticno a svoju kulminaciju ce dozivjeti nakon uvodjenja PDV-a. Tada ce ljudi sebi poceti oduzimati zivote jer ce doci u bezizlaznu situaciju da svojoj porodici ne mogu priustiti osnovne egzistencijalne potrebe. ovi politicari nece rijesiti nihove probleme jer, ustvari, politicari nemaju nikakvih problema. Oni, jadni, stanuju u Dimenziji u kojoj se svi politicari smatraju polubozanstvima i jednostavno nemaju cula da percipiraju "obicne ljude" oko i "ispod"sebe.
Da ne bih vise filozofirala predlozicu nesto!
Hajde da pokrenemo pitanje organizovanja revolucije kojom bi se sadasnja garnitura idiotiziranih politicara zbacila sa vlasti i javno izvrgnula kamenovanju ogorcenih narodnih masa.
Studenti su nekada bili strah i trepet i sve se cinilo da se zadovolje njihovi interesi. Danas su studenti neorganizovana gomila cije apatiju politicari koriste da materijalno obezbjede svojih X pokoljenja.
Studenti, radnici... recite NE idiotima!!!
P.S. Znam da cete sada napisati:"Mala, ne seri"! Ali i to je nasa svakodnevno ponasanje
mala ne seri :p
a ne,svidja mi se tvoj revolucionaran duh , eh ali toga sad nema i bas je zalosno. imala sam na faxu jednog profacha koji nas je natjeravao da seborimo da protestujemo da ne dozvoljavamo da nam rade ovo sto rade (ovi s faksa) i ja onako nabr4ijana poslje predavanja sva hepi ustanem i pridjem grupi kolega i ono izvalim nesto tipa da se borimo za neko poglavljekoje ja mislim dabi se trebali, a oni me onako pasivno pogledase, kao "dijete odrasti" i tako ja samo sjednem malo tugujem, napunim baterije iskljucim se iz zivopta u bosni i opet dok mi se ne isprazne baterije zujim...
jadna...
nedavno su nam poskupile prijave...i ja kontam zasto? sta su oni to nama bolje ponudili, pa se na studentima zaradjuje i pukne me film, odem kuci nazovem prijatele i pocnem pokretati inicijativu da grad osvane sav oblijepljen , pa makar ce tv to snimiti...aaa oni su me onako na trenutak smirtil i ja seohladila...
sad zele graditi dzamiju da da, dzamiju u sklopu koje ce biti bazen? heloooo u sklopu dzamije ce biti gradski bazen(pa kontam ko ce se kupati ako tamo idu zamotane bule i zamotani bulani) ono zar ce dzamija tolerirati da mi dodjemo u tangama na bazen...al nije mene to potreslo...
najveci problem, sto meni ne treba dzamija vec seljacinama koji su sisli s brda pa im treba avion dzamija...dzamija je i previse...nema ni toliko ljudi da ide u dzamije...i svaonako sjedim i kontam koga ce dzamija nahraniti? kome posao dati? ko ce profitirati? koga ce usreciti...mene nece
kad skontam da ce u centru biti dzamijaogromna i toliko lopova koji ce u nju odlaziti s namjerom da "odrade" i taj namaz...
ma zajebi to se...i protest i jamogu da sederem kolkoocu al ja stvari promjeniti ne mogu, ne sama, a moje kolegice? one vise brinu o svom izlgedu , a neke vjerujte su spremne "odraditi" i neke glaonje samo da ulete na neki dobarposao...
eto surova stvarnost! ode ja mastati!
#42
Posted: 25/01/2005 02:57
by Fair Life
hananah wrote:Da li kao stoka trebamo mirno stajati kad ih kolju, pa i ovce zableje kad im se noz pod grlo stavi, samo mi ne, sutimo, ponosni Bosanci : ili sta li ?
Mjera nase tuge je predvidljiva zbog jednog, uzasnog razloga: mi smo navikli gubiti i vlastite poraze smatramo prirodnim. U ovoj zemlji i s nasim parama, uostalom, radi ko sta hoce, niko se vise ne zacrveni praveci milione ljudi budalama, nikome vise nije vazno koliko nam je lose, jer zna da ce studenti, penzioneri, radnici na cekanju, bivsi vojnici, invalidi… sta god im se cinilo, samo slijegati ramenima i jos se osjecati krivim sto svojim postojanjem iritiraju gospodare nasih zivota.
PETAR LUKOVIC wrote:Ustaj stoko, sta jos cekas ?
Cekas da ovi smradovi sami sidju sa vlasti?
Cekas da umru prirodnom smrcu?
Cekas da ih sahrane o drzavnom trosku?
Cekas da ti obnove zemlju oni koji su je srusili?
Cekas da zivis veselo, srecno i bogato kao u TV dnevniku?
Cekas da bude bolje tek onako, samo od sebe?
Cekas da gledas na televiziji kako neko drugi rusi ovu vlast?
Cekas da se opameti opozicija koja deset godina svira kurcu?
Cekas da ti pomogne Bog koji je odavno digao ruke?
Cekas da neko drugi pocisti i baci ovo nase djubre?
Cekas da dodje neko bogat, lud i glup, donese pare i sve sredi?
Cekas da ti dijete postane kriminalac?
Cekas da ti dijete postane mrtav kriminalac?
Cekas da cijelog zivota ostanes svercer?
Cekas da odes u vrazju mater?
Cekas da postanes najveca bijeda na Svijetu?
Cekas da ti vrate pare iz banke?
Cekas da ti vrate deset godina zivota?
Cekas da dobijes cetiri zaostale penzije?
Cekas da dobijes februarsku platu u novembru?
Cekas da ne docekas ni jedno ni drugo?
Cekas da umres a da ne provozas nov auto?
Cekas da te i dalje handri ko stigne, gdje stigne, kako stigne i kad stigne?
Cekas da se useres od muke a nemas ni za toalet papir?
Cekas da se razbolis od muke a doktora ni za lijek?
Cekas da crknes od muke a tvoji nemaju pare za sahranu?
Cekas da te i dalje laze i krade i gori i gluplji od tebe?
Cekas da postanes bukvalno go i bos, jad i bijeda, niko i nista?
Cekas da se ove zime smrznes ko 'ona stvar'?
Cekas da propadnes?
Cekas da te nema?
Sta koji 'moj' jos cekas i dokle cekas, sta jos treba da se desi pa da ti bude jasno, da se probudis i otrijeznis? Samo ti narode vjeruj u onu poslovicu 'ko ceka taj doceka'. Ako nastavis ovako bogami ces se nacekati, ali neces docekati! A u medjuvremenu svijet ne ceka, nego ide dalje! Svi su vas stigli i prestigli, ostadoste poslednji a niste najgluplji, ostadoste bijeda a niste najsiromasniji, ostadoste slijepa mrlja, crna rupa, bruka i sramota, a znate ko ste i sta ste, sta sve mozete i umijete! Dosta je bilo price i velikih rijeci! Nema za vas vise cekanja, nema drugog zivota osim ovog, nema druge zemlje za vas osim BiH, nikog drugog osim vas! I nema vam druge nego pamet u glavu, sudbinu u svoje ruke i da zajebete, prejebete i odjebete sve te politicare i oceve nacija, narodne majke i 'cuvare' zemlje koje boli 'ona stvar' za sve i kojima je stalo do vas ko do lanjskog snijega!
Da ih otjerate u 'neku stvar', sjebete govna i gotova stvar!
Jer, pazite, ako vas za neku godinu vase dijete upita, pod uslovom da prezivi: "Oce ili majko koji ste 'moj' cekali", sta cete da kazete ?
BiH nema ni novinara poput Petra Lukovica, a narod... ovce.
#43
Posted: 25/01/2005 08:14
by kike
Meni nista nije jasno, a pogotovo povodom PDV koji ima svaka drzava pa je cak i SCG uvela od pocetka ove godine
Sluzi upravo da se disciplinira fiskalna politika i vrsi adekvatna preraspodjela budzeta
O kakvim samoubojstvima ti naprica povodom PDV?
Odakle ta predvidjanja?
Gledala u kasike ili solju?
#44
Posted: 25/01/2005 09:52
by camelina
kike wrote:Meni nista nije jasno, a pogotovo povodom PDV koji ima svaka drzava pa je cak i SCG uvela od pocetka ove godine
Sluzi upravo da se disciplinira fiskalna politika i vrsi adekvatna preraspodjela budzeta
O kakvim samoubojstvima ti naprica povodom PDV?
Odakle ta predvidjanja?
Gledala u kasike ili solju?
Kako si to lijepo rekao:"Adekvatna preraspodjela budzeta"!
E stvar je sto prvo trebamo imati napravljene socijalne programe koji ce moci zadovoljiti "potrebe" nagomilanih nezaposlenih nakon sto uvedeni PDV izazove povecane cijena i propadanje "kompanija" koje kakve-takve zaposljavaju odredjen broj ljudi. Fisikalni politika se mogla efikasno provesti sa diferencijalnom stopom PDV-a sa kojom bi se moglo provesti efikasnije ubiranje poreza, a kojom bi se zastitili i nasi proizvodjaci.
Ovakav PDV ce omoguciti da strane firme udju u nasu jadnu, pokupuju sve sto imamo, izvuku kapital i ostave nas da umiremo...polagano.Medjunarodna zajednica nam ne zeli dobro i varaju se svi koji misle da su bjelosvjetski lupezi nasi dobrocinitelji
Oderace nas ko zeceve
je li ti ista jasnije, kikicu ?
#45
Posted: 25/01/2005 16:42
by kike
Diferenciran PDV ima samo Danska i niko vise to pod borj jedan
Socijalna politika je dio fiskalne politike, pa ide usporedo sa poreskom i zato nije posebno tretirana u mom postu
Domaca industrija se stiti protekcionistickim mjerama koje jesu usko vezane, ali ne te koje determiniraju poresku politiku
Sa uvodjenjem PDV se upravo izbjegava brzo bogacenje i siva ekonomija koja je sada prisutna
Ako ce stranci pokupovati dobro dosli, ali da izvuku nemaju sta kapitala izvuci, srecice moja lijepa
#46
Posted: 25/01/2005 23:43
by Vodenjak
kike wrote:Diferenciran PDV ima samo Danska i niko vise to pod borj jedan
Socijalna politika je dio fiskalne politike, pa ide usporedo sa poreskom i zato nije posebno tretirana u mom postu
Domaca industrija se stiti protekcionistickim mjerama koje jesu usko vezane, ali ne te koje determiniraju poresku politiku
Sa uvodjenjem PDV se upravo izbjegava brzo bogacenje i siva ekonomija koja je sada prisutna
Ako ce stranci pokupovati dobro dosli, ali da izvuku nemaju sta kapitala izvuci, srecice moja lijepa
A Svedska? "Samo" 4 stope...
Pardon, TRI! Cetvrta je 0 %
Za one koji su oslobodjeni placanja istog!
#47
Posted: 26/01/2005 02:22
by Sen-Chi
e nek je sada obradjena i poreska situacija zemalja za koje bi meni bilo drago da dodju ovdje i da pokupuju sve, jer na kraju krajeva samo ulaganje, koje ce prouzrokovati pokret ekonomije i pogotovo izvoza, moze pomoci ovoj zemlji na noge. samo sto tu ima jedan veliki problem, cime se ponovo vracamo na politicku situaciju.
za skoro sva ulaganja, koja raznoraznim putevima dolaze u bih, lokalni politicari nadju puteve da te novce podzepe i uloze u privatne svrhe. rijesenje ovog problema, bar po meni, itekako jesu studenti, ali nikakve revolucije nece pomoci, jer situacija nije vise toliko losa da bi bilo potrebe za revolucijom, za tu soluciju smo zakasnili.
sada vec dolaze, polako ali sigurno, smjene generacija, tj. studenti koji su se uspjeli izboriti za tu svoju jadnu diplomu, i koji su uspjeli otjerati nekog guzonju iz njegove fotelje, sto je, moram priznati, jako tesko, ali desava se sve cesce i cesce. a takodjer, cuo sam o slucajevima
, gdje se i osobe srednjih godina preokrecu u produktivan clan naseg drustva, dakle adaptiraju svoje misljenje u tekuci milenij.
tako svako od nas mora donijeti svoj doprinos i jednostavno izdrzati do kraja...
#48 Re: Da vas sada vidimo?
Posted: 26/01/2005 04:31
by elijas
smackhead wrote:camelina wrote:Pozdrav svima!
U nasoj drzavi stanje je krajnje kriticno a svoju kulminaciju ce dozivjeti nakon uvodjenja PDV-a. Tada ce ljudi sebi poceti oduzimati zivote jer ce doci u bezizlaznu situaciju da svojoj porodici ne mogu priustiti osnovne egzistencijalne potrebe. ovi politicari nece rijesiti nihove probleme jer, ustvari, politicari nemaju nikakvih problema. Oni, jadni, stanuju u Dimenziji u kojoj se svi politicari smatraju polubozanstvima i jednostavno nemaju cula da percipiraju "obicne ljude" oko i "ispod"sebe.
Da ne bih vise filozofirala predlozicu nesto!
Hajde da pokrenemo pitanje organizovanja revolucije kojom bi se sadasnja garnitura idiotiziranih politicara zbacila sa vlasti i javno izvrgnula kamenovanju ogorcenih narodnih masa.
Studenti su nekada bili strah i trepet i sve se cinilo da se zadovolje njihovi interesi. Danas su studenti neorganizovana gomila cije apatiju politicari koriste da materijalno obezbjede svojih X pokoljenja.
Studenti, radnici... recite NE idiotima!!!
P.S. Znam da cete sada napisati:"Mala, ne seri"! Ali i to je nasa svakodnevno ponasanje
zaboravi. studenti su zauzeti, dzumom, postom, iftarom, bajramom, zaklanim ovcicama, fatvom prema salmanu rusdiju, i kako to vec dalje ide... studenti su presretni da im je ova garnitura ostalivla u naslijedje milje plodan za klanjanje bogu. jer na kraju krajeva, covjek je stvoren samo da bi slavio boga i nizasta vise. revolucija je gubljenje vremena, treba se fokusirati na univerzalne istine kurana. tu je kljuc za sve. ne u ovozemaljskim kvazi-vrijednostima. studenti su spoznali istinu i tvoj apel je smijesn i suvisan.
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Will the Hague try crimes against Autonomy supporters?
106 Grave Charges Against Fighters of Fifth Corps
The divorce of the political marriage between Fikret Abdic and Alija Izetbegovic was paid by deaths of about 2,000 individuals. Namely, that is the estimated number of total casualties on both sides of the frontline between the Fifth Corps of the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina and the Autonomous Province of Western Bosnia. The war between Bosniaks did not differ in its cruelty from other wars waged in Bosnia-Hercegovina. Victims included civilians, children, women and the elderly. Those prisoners of war who were only beaten until they fainted could consider themselves lucky... This Dani journalist visited Cazin Krajina, where the war wounds are still raw and recorded tragic stories of witnesses who accuse fighters of the Fifth Corps of maltreatment, executions and rapes
by Emir SULJAGIC
Dani, Sarajevo, Federation Bosnia-Hercegovina, B-H, October 19, 2001
It was 5 in the morning when he woke up. As every other morning, he went straight to the stable, to take care of the cattle. Another wartime morning was dawning above Krkaca, a village on the road between Velika Kladusa and Cazin. On the hill, about hundred meters behind his house, there was still a bunker of the soldiers of the People's Defense, while somewhere in the dark, on the other side of the road which split the village in two, the Fifth Corps of the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina had is positions. His grandson Amir woke up a bit later and headed towards the stable, following the grandfather. And while the shots rang through the air and ended as suddenly as they started, Ajka, Alaga's wife, heard the boy shouting: "Oh, my grandpa is gone!" Then the silence fell. Ajka Buljubasic, now aged 71, hid in the cellar and stayed there until the morning listening to the shouts of the soldiers of the 511th brigade who on that morning broke through the lines of the People's Defense. When she finally dared leave the house, she saw her husband dead, killed at the threshold of the stable; some ten meters away from him, in front of the house she saw the lifeless body of her 14-years-old grandson. He was shot in the head. Ajka today still lives in the ruins of the house burnt down a few days later, with a tarpaulin instead of a roof. On that day, she buried with her relatives and neighbors her husband and grandson. The last rites were read by four neighbors and the graves are still in the yard, next to each other.
Hunting season: Late afternoon on the same day, August 4, six hundred members of the Fourth Brigade of People's Defense surrendered after negotiations that lasted for several hours. The Autonomous Province Western Bosnia was nearing her end and Atif Dudakovic, commander of the Fifth Corps, had reasons to be satisfied. Only two weeks later his soldiers entered Velika Kladusa and raised the flag with six lilies on top of Muja Hrnjica's fort. Their advance was followed by looting, burning and numerous murders. The war against autonomy, actually only its first part, was over, but the war against autonomy supporters would go on for years. Cazin Krajina remained branded for years, the hunting season for supporters of Fikret Abdic, branded as traitors, remained open even after the end of the war, and the terror of minority against majority was carried out unpunished first by the soldiers of the Fifth Corps and then by local bullies.
"At four o'clock we shall fire a warning shot, and if you do not surrender by then we shall continue shooting(...) If you do not surrender we shall fire from tanks, cannons and mortars. I do not know what the consequences will be, but I will not be responsible for them," Dudakovic warned the soldiers of the Fourth Brigade of the People's Defense before the start of negotiations. In the meantime, in the café bar "Man" at the entrance to Pecigrad negotiations between Besim Muhamedagic, the commander of the 4th brigade on the one side, and Dudakovic, on the other, went on. When Muhamedagic returned to the Pecigrad fort, to convey to the soldiers Dudakovic's conditions for surrender, Dudakovic lost patience and at five minutes before five o'clock a tank grenade fired from the positions of the Fifth Corps hit the fort. Muhamedagic was killed, with a few more soldiers who were standing on one of the fortress walls, and Zuhra Kovacevic, one of civilians who had sought shelter in the fort, was wounded in the belly. Soldiers of the People's Defense started to surrender, and Dudakovic promised, before they laid their arms, on behalf of the commander and my behalf that no one would be maltreated, beaten and that everyone would have the right to his own word [sic]." All prisoners were taken to the camp in the barracks "Adil Basic", together with many civilians arrested on that day.
Muhamed Skrgic, who spent his whole life in Pecigrad, was arrested on that day and taken to Bihac. "They did not beat me in the camp, but they did beat me on the bus. They beat me so hard that I pissed in my pants," he says. When after 12 days he came back from Bihac to Pecigrad, his house had been burnt to the ground. He says that all the houses in the neighborhood had been destroyed. Only one was standing, but it was thoroughly looted. Since then he had had to report three times a day to the police station, and in his late sixties, under Police supervision, he was forced to do physical work for families of the members of the Fifth Corps. "We mostly cleaned roads and harvested wheat," Muhamed says.
Unlike Muhamed, some prisoners remained in captivity until the end of the war, and many of them disappeared in the prisons of the Fifth Corps. Some of them were killed, some died while digging trenches, others were released and then arrested a few more times.
Picking, picking grapes: Hakija Beganovic, morale officer of the Fourth Brigade of the People's Defense, also surrendered on August 4 1994. "I kneeled in the bus all the way to Bihac, with hands behind my neck, while they beat me with batons. When we arrived in Bihac, I could not stand," Beganovic recalls. He was held, with another 1,600 prisoners, in the hangars of the Bihac barracks "Adil Besic". Walls and roof of the hangars are made of sheet metal, so that the inside was extremely hot during the day and cold at night. All prisoners had at their disposal 20 tin dishes and the same number of cups and spoons. "We had to line up for food and the first twenty would get food. Then the twenty first person in line would get the dish and spoon from the first person, regardless of whether he had finished the meal or not," he says.
Only rare individuals managed to finish their meal, on the occasions when there was food. "Sometimes we would line up for food, but they would only tell us that there was no food that day." While he was in Bihac, two prisoners died, Beganovic says. Even after the other prisoners were released after an amnesty, he was transferred together with another 33 prisoners to prison Luka and from there to Cazin... "I can recall some 30 locations at which I was imprisoned." Forced labor followed. On one occasion they cut firewood, another time dug trenches, then exhumed dead Serb soldiers for exchange... "We had to cut firewood for days and carry it from Pljesevica to the apartments of the officers of the Fifth Corps. At the end of the day, although totally exhausted, I was taken out by the guards and forced to pretend to be picking grapes and shout 'picking, picking grapes!'" After fifteen months spent in prisoner camps, Beganovic was released on August 21, 2995. Although the International Committee of the Red Cross had registered him as a prisoner of war, upon release the command of the Fifth Corps gave him a document confirming that he had spent the whole year being "processed for security reasons".
Members of the Fifth Corps, judging by other witnesses, treated members of the People's Defense without mercy. One of the witnesses, he refused to give his name, surrendered to the soldiers of the Fifth Corps with another three soldiers in June 1994. "We discarded our weapons, and they started shooting at us from machine guns. Senad Libic, Mirsad Brkic, and certain Osmankic were killed on the spot, and I was wounded in the chest," he testifies. After the soldiers approached them, they realized that he was still alive and one of them put the barrel of the gun into his mouth and fired. "However, he did not hold the gun straight, so that the bullet passed through my cheek." He was found a day later by his neighbors, who drove him to Velika Kladusa and from there to a long recovery in a hospital in Karlovac [in Croatia].
His fellow fighter Amir Karajic, who was also captured, had worse luck. After being captured on August 4, 1994, he was taken to Buzim and imprisoned in the cellar of the hotel "Buzim" (the headquarters of the 505th Buzim Knightly Brigade were in that hotel). Another two soldiers of the People's Defense were kept in the same cell with him. Late in the afternoon on that day, according to one of them, Suljo Karajic, member of the 506th Velika Kladusa Brigade, came to the prison and ordered them to come close to the bars. "I stood on the left from Amir, and Cisic (the third prisoner, author's remark) was next to me. Suljo Karajic placed a gun on the bars, roughly where Amir's chest was. He asked Amir what he had fought for. While they talked, Fikret Karajic, Amir's cousin, came by. He was the member of the Fifth Crops, also from Velika Kladusa. He told Amir: 'What's up cousin?' Suljo Karajic asked Fikret 'What, you feel sorry for him?' and fired a bullet in Amir Karajic's chest," this witness testifies. He was imprisoned in the Buzim prison until the March of 1995.
Karajic's beastly crimes: Suljo Karajic today lives in Velika Kladusa. After the war he opened a restaurant, then another one, and residents of Kladusa mostly speak about him with fear. "I know for sure that he killed my brother. And I meet him every day," says one of our interlocutors, who also requested to remain anonymous. At the time Dani tried to contact him, Karajic could not be found in either of his restaurants. One of his employees first said that he was praying in the town mosque, and ten minutes later that he had gone to the bank. Another ten minutes and several calls later, Karajic in a short telephone conversation said the following: "I've already responded to those accusations. I have nothing to say. As far as I am concerned, that case is over. That's that."
On July 19, 1999, officer of the International Criminal tribunal Brid O'Toole took over in Velika Kladusa voluminous evidence about crimes committed against the autonomy supporters. The document stamped with the Hague Prosecutor's Office stamp states that he took over "three folders with statements, two envelopes full of photographs, four video tapes, and four audio tapes" with testimonies of the victims. According to the statement of one of the witnesses, in January 1995 Karajic cut off the head of Rasim Dizdarevic, captured soldier of the People's Defense. The witness, at the time a member of the work platoon of the 506th Brigade, claims that Dizdarevic lay on the ground, on his back and begged for life in pain, trying to defend himself with his arms, while Karajic was trying to saw his head off. Then he ordered another prisoner to give him an axe and finished Dizdarevic off. The body was found on the spot of the murder, while the head was found buried a few kilometers away. Dani was also shown a video tape of the exhumation and autopsy conducted in March 1995, which clearly shows cuts on the hands and arms of the victim, as well as head wounds.
The bloodthirsty nature of the above described murder confirms that, regardless of how bloody, the end of what is in the Krajina jargon known as "the first autonomy", cannot be compared with its definite end in August 1995. Between October 1993 and August 1994, when the "second autonomy" was destroyed, there were hardly any clashes between the soldiers of the People's Defense and the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina. Furthermore, civilians daily crossed the front line in columns several miles long going from Bihac to Pecigrad, Jabukovac or Trzac, on the territory of the Autonomous Province of Western Bosnia to buy food. "We proposed to the authorities in Bihac to take food to every village in the district with two conditions. That the price be the same as in Velika Kladusa and that they guarantee security of the drivers. However, the then representative of the Bosnia-Hercegovina government for the district, Mirsad Veladzic, rejected that proposal," Ibrahim Djedovic, at the time responsible for the transport of food through Abdic's "economic corridor", says. For the sake of comparison, the price of one kilogram of flour in Bihac was at the time $5 and in Velika Kladusa $1; a box of cigarettes was selling in Bihac for $5 while in the autonomous province the price fluctuated between $.5 and $.6; cooking oil was five times more expensive in Bihac, sugar seven times and coffee twenty times!
Madam, we killed your husband...: The state of neither war not peace ended in July 1994 when the Fifth Corps attacked the Autonomous Province of Western Bosnia and by the end of August crashed all resistance of the soldiers of the autonomy. During the following months, between the two attempts to establish the autonomy, a new wave of violence struck the territory around Cazin and Velika Kladusa. Soldiers of the Fifth Corps, following their old custom, at night arrested former members of the People's Defense and people suspected of supporting Abdic. These individuals would then disappear. Several days after arrests they would return home beaten up or their corpses would appear in front of their homes. As a rule, village imams refused to conduct religious burials of the victims, and families were forced to bury them in front of their houses, without a religious ceremony.
Asim Kovacevic, retired policemen from Pecigrad, was arrested in the evening on August 4, 1994, together with his neighbor, village teacher Hazim Beganovic. This was the first one in the series of arrests both of them would go through. They were escorted by the police to Bihac the following day, to the headquarters of the Fifth Corps military police. Kovacevic's son Asmir, captured as a policeman of the People's Defense, was in the neighboring cell. Both of them survived a week in that prison. Deformed by daily beatings, they were moved to the prison Luke. "They spit in our mouth, some of them would come and defecate in our cell, and one night guards let in some twenty soldiers who came to our cell and beat us up." Both of them spent a month in the prison and returned home convinced that they had repaid their debt to the authorities that had accused them of treason.
But both of them went through a few more similar arrests; Kovacevic was arrested for the last time in December 1994, when he was killed. This was the peak of "the second autonomy", and Kovacevic was "suspicious". "That night, at about 7pm, someone knocked on the door. When I opened, I saw three armed men in uniforms," his wife Ajka recalls. She says that they were looking for Asim, who quickly put on some clothes and went with them. She went to the local police station, which was located in the neighboring house, to find out what was going on, but the policemen did not know anything about the abduction of her husband. Three days later, Asim's corpse was found next to the road between Pecigrad and Cazin. His clothing was strewn around and the corpse, according to Ajka, was covered with wounds, black and blue. Doctor Miroslav Rakocevic in his autopsy report claimed that Kovacevic had died from natural causes. Two years later Ajka Kovacevic received an anonymous letter from one of the alleged murderers. In a brief message, obviously written with a lot of trouble in large capital letters, someone wrote: "Madam Kovacevic, I feel bad for writing this to you. Your husband was killed by Ale Samardzic from Coralic, Sisic Hasim and I. The police paid us. Halil commander, Juso Hodzic and Saned the policeman. I am from Sana."
505 carved in with knife: Meho Jusic is another victim of night raids. He was seventy-years-old and lived in Gornja Vidovska. Unfortunately for him, he lived on the front line and was frequently visited by the patrols of the opposing armies. "It was five in the morning. Someone knocked on the door and shouted 'Meho, open up!'," says Meho's daughter in law Zekira, seven months pregnant. According to her, the soldier who stood in the yard told Meho to get ready and follow them. He refused and while he was closing the door the soldier fired two bullets into him. One bullet hit Meho in the arm and the other one, probably the deadly one, in the belly. Because of this murder the Bihac district prosecutor issued in June 1999 an indictment against Zuhdija Tahirovic. His fellow fighter Muhamed Dzakulic confirmed in court that Tahirovic killed the old man on the threshold of his house. "When we came to the house where the old man lived (Jusic, author's remark), he (Tahirovic, author's remark) told me to bang on the door and set my gun to automatic fire. I refused his order and he started banging on the door.(...) Zuhdija in silence cocked his gun and fired in the direction of the old men through the entrance door." Bullet traces can still be seen on the door. Behind the house there is the grave in which old Jusic had been buried until his body was moved to the local cemetery. The panel of judges of the Cantonal Court in Bihac acquitted Tahirovic of all charges on September 27, 2001.
The worst was yet to come. The violence culminated with the final destruction of the Autonomous Province of Western Bosnia in August 1995, which was followed by rapes and executions.
"Fifteen days after the fall of the second autonomy, a man in military fatigues broke into my home. (...) I escaped to the garden (...) and he caught up with me... and then threw me on the ground," one of the rape victims testifies. She recalls that the attacker put a gun on her neck, tore her clothes off and then raped her. "I managed to get back into the house through a window, with a lot of trouble, went into the room and covered myself with a comforter. I was hurting a lot, so that I cried because of pain and fear. Fifteen minutes later, he came back and raped me again."
B.D. from Polje near Velika Kladusa was also raped. She was aged 22 at the time, and was raped by the members of the 505th Brigade in September 1995. Namely, during the check up conducted by Dr. Ivo Navratil in the Karlovac hospital, Dr. Navratil noted that B.D. had been raped, but also that her "right thigh had 505 carved on it. The numbers were about 10 centimeters long and 5 centimeters wide and were carved by double cuts, separated by 1 cm. All together there are three cuts, each measuring 1 by 45 cm and 2 by 33 cm."
Supporters of autonomy and of the Fifth Corps: During those days people disappeared without trace, they were murdered without fear of punishment, as if the war would never end. Twenty-years-old Senad Pilipovic was arrested in his family home in Mala Kladusa and has not been seen since then. His wife Zumreta, after her return from the refugee camp in Kuplensko, started an exhausting and seemingly hopeless search for her husband. In February 1999, with the assistance of the Ombudsman's office in Bihac, she finally managed to find out his fate. The cantonal prosecutor sent to the Ombudsman's office the explanation in which he claimed that Pilipovic had been arrested by "members of the 510th Brigade of the Fifth Corps". "He was brought to the INCEL premises in Cazin, where he died after being beaten by soldiers," this document states.
Fikret Pilipovic is another one out of tens of hundreds of those who never came back from the prisoner camps. He, although at the time had the status of prisoner of war ("member of paramilitary formations of Fikret Abdic") died digging trenches at the positions held by the 511th Brigade, near Cazin well. The letter sent to his wife Munira by the municipal defense office in Velika Kladusa states that he died of August 12 "when the Serb-Chetnik aggressor fired a grenade from the direction of Koliste". What a consolation!
Apparently the only consolation that numerous families from Kladusa and Cazin that are still searching for their loved ones can count on. Unfortunately, this small war within the war, apparently still hasn't ended. Inhabitants of Cazin Krajina are still divided to the "supporters of autonomy" and the "supporters of the Fifth Corps". Actually, that is the only important distinction. While I was leaving the office of the Democratic People's Union in Velika Kladisa, a group of high school students, leaving a bar across the road from the office, obviously drunk, broke the heavy (or at least that is how it seemed to me) silence that shrouds this town by singing and chanting "Babo, Babo!" [Fikret Abdic] I had a premonition that a few hundreds of meters or a few kilometers away another group of young men or boys was also stumbling around chanting "SDA! SDA!". Actually, it was not a premonition. I knew.
And the silence shrouding this town will be as heavy as on that day, in spite of their youthful noise, for a long time to come. At least until they, boys, become ready to look each other in the eye and stop blaming each other for the sins of their parents. Or some other parents who pushed their parents to the point of desperation where they had no other choice but to slaughter each other. Until then, Velika Kladusa will transmit to the rest of the country silence that has been coming from there until now and crimes will remain carefully hidden.
License to Kill
"When my father in law went to Todorovo to ask the imam to read the last rites at the funeral, he refused, so that we had to bury him on our own without a religious service." The interlocutor of Dani whose husband died as the member of People's Defense, in the fighting against the units of the Fifth Corps, is only one of hundreds of individuals who could not be buried by their loved ones with a religious ceremony. At the very beginning of the conflict between the Fifth Corps and the People's Defense, Bihac Mufti Hasan ef. Makic issued a fatwah excommunicating all supporters of Fikret Abdic from the Muslim faith. Village hodjas, threatened by possible loss of job, or perhaps even life, refused then to bury their parishioners, fellow villagers and neighbors, obeying Mufti's order. The text of the fatwah, which is essentially a call for persecution of groups of individuals is as follows:
Considering the recent developments in Bihac muftidom, which led to mutual spilling of Muslim blood, and regarding different interpretations of the treatment of slain members of the Bosniak nation who support the rebels, Bihac Mufti professor Hasan ef. Makic issued the following
FATWAH
All those for whom it can definitively be established that they consciously and voluntarily fought against Islam and the Bosniak nation are murteds [apostates]. This above all applies to all those at leadership positions in the rebel army or the authorities of the autonomy. After death, such individuals cannot be buried with a religious ceremony nor can they be buried in the Muslim cemetery as they are to be treated as infidels.
Those who have been forcibly mobilized by Abdic's authorities, in case of death, are to be treated as Muslims.
All those who die on the path of Allah in defense of Islam and the homeland of the Bosniak nation from the rebels will earn the title of shehids [martyrs fallen for Islam] and as such are to be given all religious honors.
Bihac, November 23, 1993, Hasan ef. Makic
The literal meaning of fatwah a permission or instruction. According to sharia law, fatwah used to be issued by Mufti's as the supreme religious authority for a certain region, mostly in form of answers and questions. The supreme authority that at first issued all fatwahs was Sheik-ul-Islam [the religious head of all Muslims], but that right was later passed on to the muftis as well. Fatwahs always deal with religious issues and never encroach on the domain of politics or secular law. Therefore, the Bihac fatwah sets a precedent. Besides of regulating relations already regulated by the war law, it is actually a call for war, permission for killing of hundreds of individuals who differ only by their opinion. Dani tried to obtain the official comment on the content of this fatwah from the Bihac muftidom. Unfortunately, we were unable to reach anyone there, despite persistent phone calls.
Tapes Accuse
We know for sure that the tape that was given to Dani, and whose authenticity has been confirmed, has also been sent to the Hague Tribunal prosecutor's office. No one knows what the Hague will do with the tape and in which case it may be used as evidence. Dani decided to publish the transcript of the tape fully aware of the sensitivity of the current context, in which chauvinist generalizations are again rife, and according to which every Arab and Muslim who fought for the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina in the war must be an evil terrorist. However, precisely this tape, more correctly and tangibly than anything else, demonstrated a very obvious thing - a criminal has a very specific name and surname, and the same applies to all those who with approval watch while he is committing a crime. Therefore, the publication of such information can only work in favor of those who are innocent, regardless of their origin, religioun, color of skin, or side on which they fought in the war.
In December 1995, units of the Fifth Corps of the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina liberated a large territory between Bihac and Banja Luka. Near Sanski Most, members of the 505th Buzim Brigade, somewhere between Jesenica and Lusci-Palanka, captured a soldier of the Army of the Republic of Srpska who had fallen behind his unit. The interrogation that was recorded by an amateur camera, as well as this whole expedition, was led by two members of that unit. One of them is an Arab, the other one a Bosniak. The prisoner is visibly scared and other soldiers of the 505th Brigade stand in semicircle around him.
FATWAH
All those for whom it can definitively be established that they consciously and voluntarily fought against Islam and the Bosniak nation are murteds [apostates]. This above all applies to all those at leadership positions in the rebel army or the authorities of the autonomy. After death, such individuals cannot be buried with a religious ceremony nor can they be buried in the Muslim cemetery as they are to be treated as infidels.
Those who have been forcibly mobilized by Abdic's authorities, in case of death, are to be treated as Muslims.
All those who die on the path of Allah in defense of Islam and the homeland of the Bosniak nation from the rebels will earn the title of shehids [martyrs fallen for Islam] and as such are to be given all religious honors.
Bihac, November 23, 1993, Hasan ef. Makic
evo jos jedne fetve,kad se vec govori o fetvama
#49
Posted: 26/01/2005 09:20
by kike
Svedska? "Samo" 4 stope...
Pardon, TRI! Cetvrta je 0 %
Za one koji su oslobodjeni placanja istog!
Pa i ovdje ce biti 0% za neke proizvode, pametnice, ali to se ne racuna u poresku stopu, ekonomsito
#50
Posted: 26/01/2005 09:49
by Vodenjak
kike wrote: Svedska? "Samo" 4 stope...
Pardon, TRI! Cetvrta je 0 %
Za one koji su oslobodjeni placanja istog!
Pa i ovdje ce biti 0% za neke proizvode, pametnice, ali to se ne racuna u poresku stopu, ekonomsito
E nek´ si mi odbrusio, bistrooki....
