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drndalo wrote: ↑13/12/2022 12:08

madner wrote: ↑13/12/2022 11:32 istocna Evropa je bila saveznik Njemaca, minus Poljska.

Kakva sranja pises i onda jos kao tvrdis da si vjerodostojan za "Poljsku propagandu"...

Sta je bilo i sa kojim zemljama u Ist. Evropi ? Neke jesu bile sa kvislinskim vladama saveznicama Njemacke, a neke su bogami bile okupirane od Njemacke... Tebi je to ocito isto ? Pravi historicar, nema sta...

Poljska propaganda je i podjela Poljske izmedju Rajha i CCCP-a k'o da gledam... Nisu nikad usli oni u Poljsku izmedju '39-'44...? Zar ne... Poljski oficiri se samoubili u Katinskoj sumi, samo da napakoste "zlim komuLJarama"...? Sve price bez osnova ikakvog, zar ne ?

Čitalac wrote: ↑13/12/2022 12:11 Dobro, nisu stvari baš tako jednostavne i jasne kako ih predstavlja moskovska istorijska škola. U korpusu deklasifikovanih dokumenata iz sovjetskih arhiva koji su objavljeni 2004. godine (priredili Leonid Gibianski – Ruska akademija nauka i Norman Naimark – Univerzitet Stanford), nalazi se i očit dokaz direktne Staljinove intervencije po pitanju Varšavskog ustanka.

Also important in this connection are the orders to the Soviet troops in Poland on August 23, 1944, mandating urgent measures to be taken against the Polish Government-in-exile’s Home Army (Armija Krajowa, AK) units in areas occupied by the Red Army. These units were to be prevented from reaching Warsaw and thus aiding the Warsaw Uprising, and were to be arrested and disarmed.
The order is a rare documentary example of the Kremlin’s policy not only not to aid or abet the Warsaw Uprising, but to prevent the insurgents from receiving reinforcements in men or arms. This signifies that Stalin preferred that the uprising, which was organized by the emigre government, be put down by the Nazis, which indeed happened in September-October 1944, rather than be at all successful and serve as an impediment for the imposition of Moscow’s authority in Warsaw.
This evidence is relevant to the question, often discussed in the historiography of the period, whether the halt of the Red Army’s advance at the Vistula in mid-September, 1944, rather than crossing the river and coming to the aid of the Warsaw Uprising, derived from nefarious political calculations on Stalin’s part, or whether logistical and tactical considerations by the Soviet military dictated the need to cease offensive actions. (Available military documents regarding this question are inconclusive).

https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/2004_8 ... anskii.pdf

drndalo wrote: ↑13/12/2022 12:08

madner wrote: ↑13/12/2022 11:32 istocna Evropa je bila saveznik Njemaca, minus Poljska.

Kakva sranja pises i onda jos kao tvrdis da si vjerodostojan za "Poljsku propagandu"...

Sta je bilo i sa kojim zemljama u Ist. Evropi ? Neke jesu bile sa kvislinskim vladama saveznicama Njemacke, a neke su bogami bile okupirane od Njemacke... Tebi je to ocito isto ? Pravi historicar, nema sta...

Poljska propaganda je i podjela Poljske izmedju Rajha i CCCP-a k'o da gledam... Nisu nikad usli oni u Poljsku izmedju '39-'44...? Zar ne... Poljski oficiri se samoubili u Katinskoj sumi, samo da napakoste "zlim komuLJarama"...? Sve price bez osnova ikakvog, zar ne ?

Almost no one knows about it, but the first combat use of "Neptunes" took place not in April, but in the first days of the full-scale invasion of Russia.

It was then that three Russian amphibious ships emerged from the ports in Crimea and headed towards the Ukrainian coast in the Mykolaiv region. The landing of Russian troops in this area gave them a springboard to attack both Mykolaiv and Odessa.

It was to defeat these ships that the first three Neptunes were launched.

" The first launches were from the south of the Odesa region, and were fired in the direction of Mykolaiv. Therefore, the rockets had to pass over Odesa, and in order for it to be safe for the city, they were launched not at a height of 5-6 meters above the water, as it should be, but somewhere on 120 meters. It is obvious that the Russians detected them and most likely destroyed them. It is interesting that they even shot down their own plane, which was hunting Neptunes in that area, - an interlocutor in military circles related to the Neptune project told UP .

None of the "Neptunes" hit their target, but, according to UP interlocutors, the Russian amphibious ships, startled by the very possibility of such missile strikes, turned around and dozed off to Crimea.

Due to the fact that there were dense clouds over the sea, the signal from the radar reflected from them to the surface of the water, and from the water back to the clouds.

"At the time of the invasion, we did not have over-the-horizon radars, and Russia knew about it. But since the clouds were very low and the signal from this corridor between the water and the clouds was nowhere to go, the radar unexpectedly reached Moscow," the interlocutor explains UP

The Russians were so sure of their own inaccessibility to Ukrainian forces that, as our interlocutors suggest, they probably did not even activate the air defense systems.

GandalfSivi wrote: ↑13/12/2022 15:29

drndalo wrote: ↑13/12/2022 12:08

Kakva sranja pises i onda jos kao tvrdis da si vjerodostojan za "Poljsku propagandu"...

Sta je bilo i sa kojim zemljama u Ist. Evropi ? Neke jesu bile sa kvislinskim vladama saveznicama Njemacke, a neke su bogami bile okupirane od Njemacke... Tebi je to ocito isto ? Pravi historicar, nema sta...

Poljska propaganda je i podjela Poljske izmedju Rajha i CCCP-a k'o da gledam... Nisu nikad usli oni u Poljsku izmedju '39-'44...? Zar ne... Poljski oficiri se samoubili u Katinskoj sumi, samo da napakoste "zlim komuLJarama"...? Sve price bez osnova ikakvog, zar ne ?

Volim meziti madnera, ali ovdje je vise manje u pravu. Zaboravio je doduse Jugoslaviju, za Cesku je upitno, ali se definitivno slazemo za Madjarsku, Rumuniju i Bugarsku.

Malo poznata cinjenica, Rumunija i Bugarska su zadnje zemlje ikada kojima je Amerika objavila rat…

madner wrote: ↑13/12/2022 11:05

mishic wrote: ↑13/12/2022 11:01
To treba da ih nazovemo oslobodiocima zemalja na čije tlo su kročili uključujući i Istočnu Njemačku?

Ne bih isao tako daleko, podrska nacistima je u svim zemljama bila dosta siroka.

splinter wrote: ↑13/12/2022 16:58 Danas je svjetski dan violine.
P,a da obilježimo