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#126 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 07/09/2009 12:59
by Orbini
oldplague wrote:Nema to neke veze s tim ko je novinar i pod materijalnom greškom ne podrazumijevam samo pogrešne podatke, već čitave konstrukcije. Mnogo drame, ali supstance ni od korova, pa se ona nadomješćuje atraktivnim prizivanjem nesretnog Franje Ferdinanda, koji se redovito nađe u analizama bez kraja i početka. Također mi je smiješna ta teza o političarima koji su uradili nešto "nepromišljeno", međunarodnoj zajednici bez ideje i plana, olako povučenim potezima, itd. Svaki, ali baš svaki potez međunarodne zajednice je dobro promišljen, koordiniran i usaglašen unutar same MZ prije nego što je realiziran na terenu u BiH. Dakle, brojnost mirovnih snaga na terenu u BiH nema žive veze sa njihovom reaktivnom sposobnošću, toliko je i budali jasno. Svaki volumen snaga ima isti potencijal, samo drugačiji geografski raspored (mind you, ovo je 21. stoljeće, nevažno je gdje su ti efektive kad ih možeš razmjestiti za sat vremena).
Drugo, efekt sarajevskog atentata ne postoji, MZ je najprije potpuno izolirala bh. problem (a višnja na taj šlag je i postepeno ukidanje viznog režima u susjednim zemljama) tako da se nikakav sukob u BiH ne bi mogao preliti na susjedstvo ni kad bismo se baš potrudili u tom smislu. Uostalom, sarajevski atentat i nije bio uzrok, već posljedica. Mi smo s njim imali najmanje veze. Nemojmo si pripisivati historijsku važnost koju u stvarnosti nemamo.
Amerikanci su odavde otišli zato što su svoj posao završili i svoj cilj postigli, a ne zbog "kratkovidnosti" tamošnje administracije. Takvo što je smiješno i pomisliti. U tom grmu i leži zec: nestabilnost u BiH više nema višeg cilja, nema svrhe, ona je sada sama sebi svrha. Kosovo je steklo neovisnost, Srbi su se iselili iz Hrvatske, CG je samostalna država na putu ka EU, mamac za kapital... Budućnost BiH više nije ničiji problem doli naš. Ona mora opstati, ali njen budući ustroj nikoga ne zanima i oko toga vlada popriličan konsenzus u MZ: šta god se sami dogovorimo, nikoga nije briga.
Rata neće biti jer ga nema ko voditi. Za rat, ozbiljan rat koji bi dao nekakve kvalitativne promjene, potrebna je obučena, opremljena vojska, mlada vojska, mnogo tehnike, logistike, pravci opskrbe, snažni saveznici koji i sami imaju ulog u takvom ratu... ovdje toga nema, samo iscijeđena zemlja i malodušan narod navikao na život u čistilištu.
Istina nije tako strašna kao u ovom članku. Daleko je strašnija.
Da ne repliciram pojedinacno recenice,...
Nebih se slozio da je svaki potez MZ prema BiH dobro smisljen i planiran,.. Prije bih rekao daje fleksibilan i da se prilagodjava aktuelnim prilikama u regionu i sire. Popustaj onome ko najvise talasa, pritisni onog a koga mozes i ne zamjeri se previse saveznicima kao Rusiji napr.
Najbitnije je da ne dodje do rata i tu je Mz jedino besprjekorno oprezna jer uvijek moze nekome popustiti a nekoga pritisnuti. Da se slucajno svi pocnu qrciti ko Dodik & Co. nasla bi se u neobranom grozdju. Dejton je bio maksimum diplomatije svojevremeno, danas je nemoguce naci kompromisno rjesenje za sve politicke platforme i nacionalne ciljeve te sve visi u zraku. Definitivno je jasno da u BiH moze biti samo jedan ili dva pobjednika a nikako tri.

Sarajevski atentat se ne spominje slucajno. Postoji ipak paralela a to su interesi vecih sila koji isprobavaju misice na ovakvim terenima kao sto je BiH. I onda su sile upravo preko ovog terena isprobavali misice,.. i to se isto i sad desava.
U prijevodu - pomognes li nekome u Bih na stetu drugog - to uvijek povlaci reakciju i politicku cjenu od neke velike sile.

A rat je onda poceo sa ulicnim bandama i seoskim milicijama pa se od nicega stvorila Armija BiH. Bez neke dirljivog srcedrapajuceg patriotizma,.. to je jednostavno bilo tako. Znaci u momentu haosa, anarhije, odrijesenih ruku,. uvijek ima neko ko ce napraviti teze incidente i uvijek se silom prilika ima neko za rat - htio to ili ne. U Bosni si obicno silom prilika uvucen u to,.. ne moras stojati u redu za zaduzenje uniforme kao dobrovoljac. Dogadjaji su obicno brzi od naseg slobodnog izbora i preko noci sí u necemu a nemas pojma kako se u to uvali.

Tekst je defakto tacan i realan - za promjenu posto Times cesto zna lupati,...

#127 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 07/09/2009 14:33
by dallton
oldplague wrote:Nema to neke veze s tim ko je novinar i pod materijalnom greškom ne podrazumijevam samo pogrešne podatke, već čitave konstrukcije. Mnogo drame, ali supstance ni od korova, pa se ona nadomješćuje atraktivnim prizivanjem nesretnog Franje Ferdinanda, koji se redovito nađe u analizama bez kraja i početka. Također mi je smiješna ta teza o političarima koji su uradili nešto "nepromišljeno", međunarodnoj zajednici bez ideje i plana, olako povučenim potezima, itd. Svaki, ali baš svaki potez međunarodne zajednice je dobro promišljen, koordiniran i usaglašen unutar same MZ prije nego što je realiziran na terenu u BiH. Dakle, brojnost mirovnih snaga na terenu u BiH nema žive veze sa njihovom reaktivnom sposobnošću, toliko je i budali jasno. Svaki volumen snaga ima isti potencijal, samo drugačiji geografski raspored (mind you, ovo je 21. stoljeće, nevažno je gdje su ti efektive kad ih možeš razmjestiti za sat vremena).
Drugo, efekt sarajevskog atentata ne postoji, MZ je najprije potpuno izolirala bh. problem (a višnja na taj šlag je i postepeno ukidanje viznog režima u susjednim zemljama) tako da se nikakav sukob u BiH ne bi mogao preliti na susjedstvo ni kad bismo se baš potrudili u tom smislu. Uostalom, sarajevski atentat i nije bio uzrok, već posljedica. Mi smo s njim imali najmanje veze. Nemojmo si pripisivati historijsku važnost koju u stvarnosti nemamo.
Amerikanci su odavde otišli zato što su svoj posao završili i svoj cilj postigli, a ne zbog "kratkovidnosti" tamošnje administracije. Takvo što je smiješno i pomisliti. U tom grmu i leži zec: nestabilnost u BiH više nema višeg cilja, nema svrhe, ona je sada sama sebi svrha. Kosovo je steklo neovisnost, Srbi su se iselili iz Hrvatske, CG je samostalna država na putu ka EU, mamac za kapital... Budućnost BiH više nije ničiji problem doli naš. Ona mora opstati, ali njen budući ustroj nikoga ne zanima i oko toga vlada popriličan konsenzus u MZ: šta god se sami dogovorimo, nikoga nije briga.
Rata neće biti jer ga nema ko voditi. Za rat, ozbiljan rat koji bi dao nekakve kvalitativne promjene, potrebna je obučena, opremljena vojska, mlada vojska, mnogo tehnike, logistike, pravci opskrbe, snažni saveznici koji i sami imaju ulog u takvom ratu... ovdje toga nema, samo iscijeđena zemlja i malodušan narod navikao na život u čistilištu.
Istina nije tako strašna kao u ovom članku. Daleko je strašnija.

prvo boldirano - da je svaki potez mz-a usaglasen i dogovoren je blago receno smijesno...jedino oko cega se slazu je da nece rat, a oko svega ostalog se nikako ne slazu, samo sto su prvo i drugo povezani

drugo boldirano - nikakav sukob ne moramo prenositi mi, on bi se sam po sebi dogodio - ako mislis da bi kosovo, makedonija i srbija ostali mirni, mogu ti reci da je to tesko izvodljivo jer bi svako u gunguli i zanimanju mz-a oko bosne vidjeo priliku da za sebe nesto usicari, da li srbija sjever kosova, da li albanci jug srbije i dio makedonije, da li bosnjaci sandzak...niko ne bi ostao s mirom da sjedi, imajuci u vidu blisku proslost

usporedba s francom ferdinandom nije bila smisljena na to da se kaze da je "bosna uzrok sukoba" - svaki skolarac zna da to nije tacno, pa tako i ovaj novinar i niko sebi time ne pridaje vaznost - ono sto covjek hoce da kaze jeste da je ono sto se desilo s ferdinandom bilo samo odraz vec postojeceg konflikta izmedju razlicitih faktora a da je ubistvo bilo samo okidac koji je sve sranje iznijeo na vidjelo...ista logika vrijedi i u danasnjem slucaju

#128 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 07/09/2009 15:50
by oldplague
prvo boldirano - da je svaki potez mz-a usaglasen i dogovoren je blago receno smijesno...jedino oko cega se slazu je da nece rat, a oko svega ostalog se nikako ne slazu, samo sto su prvo i drugo povezani
Ali ne shvataš: samo to je i dovoljno. Dovoljno je to što je MZ saglasna da ovdje više neće biti rata. Dovoljno je njima, ne tebi ili meni. Ti i ja nismo važni. Zamah eventualnih čarki u BiH jedva da bi bio dovoljan da dobaci do granice, a kamoli preko nje, otrijeznite se. Ništa osim izoliranog sukoba niskog intenziteta ovdje nije moguće, iako je meni teško i zamsiliti ko bi to ratovao protiv koga. Jednostavno, na forumima sve izgleda mnogo jasnije, ali u stvarnosti ništa nije tako crno-bijelo.
Za taj pokušaj da se nešto teritorije ušićari nije potreban oružani sukob: dovoljan je dogovor, ako su to stvarne ambicije naroda na Balkanu: zaokružiti svoj ekskluzivni etnički prostor. To su davno mogli uraditi, a mogu i sada. Ali ti prostori nisu potpuno samoordživi, a da bi se to promijenilo potrebna je barem po jedna atomska bomba u rukama svakog od aktera. Najjednostavnije rečeno, sretan spoj etnički čistog, ekskluzivnog prostora, koji pritom ima neku perspektivu i donekle je samoodrživ, moguć je samo protjerivanjem miliona ljudi. Nije da se to ne bi htjelo, ali nema se više čime. Osim toga, nestao je najvažniji sastojak te čorbe: interes MZ.

#129 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 07/09/2009 16:09
by dallton
oldplague wrote:
prvo boldirano - da je svaki potez mz-a usaglasen i dogovoren je blago receno smijesno...jedino oko cega se slazu je da nece rat, a oko svega ostalog se nikako ne slazu, samo sto su prvo i drugo povezani
Ali ne shvataš: samo to je i dovoljno. Dovoljno je to što je MZ saglasna da ovdje više neće biti rata. Dovoljno je njima, ne tebi ili meni. Ti i ja nismo važni. Zamah eventualnih čarki u BiH jedva da bi bio dovoljan da dobaci do granice, a kamoli preko nje, otrijeznite se. Ništa osim izoliranog sukoba niskog intenziteta ovdje nije moguće, iako je meni teško i zamsiliti ko bi to ratovao protiv koga. Jednostavno, na forumima sve izgleda mnogo jasnije, ali u stvarnosti ništa nije tako crno-bijelo.
Za taj pokušaj da se nešto teritorije ušićari nije potreban oružani sukob: dovoljan je dogovor, ako su to stvarne ambicije naroda na Balkanu: zaokružiti svoj ekskluzivni etnički prostor. To su davno mogli uraditi, a mogu i sada. Ali ti prostori nisu potpuno samoordživi, a da bi se to promijenilo potrebna je barem po jedna atomska bomba u rukama svakog od aktera. Najjednostavnije rečeno, sretan spoj etnički čistog, ekskluzivnog prostora, koji pritom ima neku perspektivu i donekle je samoodrživ, moguć je samo protjerivanjem miliona ljudi. Nije da se to ne bi htjelo, ali nema se više čime. Osim toga, nestao je najvažniji sastojak te čorbe: interes MZ.
ja sam ti upravo napisao da je prvo i drugo povezano - nije samo dovoljno da se mz slaze da rata nece biti, jer ako nema rjesenja kako ce to izgledati onda ce stagnacija voditi nekom belaju - i tu ja i ti nismo vazni, taj dio ne moras ponavljati

#130 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 08/09/2009 04:01
by Shoba
Iz danasnjeg NY Timesa
........
While Europe Sleeps, Bosnia Seethes
By NICHOLAS KULISH

BERLIN

NEARLY 14 years after peace for Bosnia was hammered out in Ohio, the hills rising up around Sarajevo can still lead a visitor to uncomfortable thoughts about sightlines for snipers.

As I stood there in person on a visit back in May with Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., the violence of the ’90s didn’t feel so far away. Mr. Biden barnstormed through the Balkans on Air Force 2, also stopping in Serbia and Kosovo, with the goal of trying to draw flagging attention back to the region, delivering his sternest lecture to the Bosnian Parliament, warning against falling back onto “old patterns and ancient animosities.”

Mr. Biden is not alone in his warnings. In the latest issue of Foreign Affairs, under the headline “The Death of Dayton,” Patrice C. McMahon and Jon Western write that because of ethnic divisions that refuse to heal, widespread corruption and political deadlock, “the country now stands on the brink of collapse” and “unless checked, the current trends toward fragmentation will almost certainly lead to a resumption of violence.”

Whether or not that happens, the peacekeeping force meant to crack down on any outbreaks now has fewer than 2,000 troops. And the American contingent, a promise and a deterrent to those who justifiably doubt the European Union’s resolve if force is needed, has left entirely.

These circumstances might be cause for widespread alarm, if anyone had noticed them in the first place. It didn’t used to be that way. It used to be that you didn’t have to shout to get heard on the subject of Bosnia. The name alone was enough to evoke the rape, torture, burned-out homes and mass graves that marked a three-and-a-half-year war in which roughly 100,000 people were killed, a majority of them Muslims.

But that was a long time ago. For much of the Western world Bosnia is an all-but-forgotten problem, far down the list of priorities after countries like Iraq, Iran and North Korea. As if to drive the point home, the chief architect of the Dayton peace accords in the Clinton administration, Richard C. Holbrooke, now a special envoy in the Obama administration, has his hands full with the war in Afghanistan and the even more complex situation in neighboring, nuclear-armed Pakistan. Mr. Holbrooke has complained in recent years of a “distracted international community.”

If the drift of public attention away from Bosnia is a result of more pressing issues in an age of terrorism and rogue nuclear states, it is also a function of the simple fact that this ethnically divided country finds itself in the middle of a far more united, stable and at times downright boring Europe than in the days of the civil war.

Bosnia could well return to violence, but it has lost a large measure of what might be called its Franz Ferdinand threat. For all of the moral and humanitarian arguments for getting involved in the violent dissolution of Yugoslavia, there was also the severe lesson from Archduke Ferdinand’s assassination in 1914, which provided the spark for World War I. That lesson was simple: conflicts start in the Balkans, but they do not necessarily stay there.

The end of the cold war brought elation but also trepidation. In hindsight, the march of countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania from the Warsaw Pact into NATO and the European Union may appear steady and all but predestined, but the paths of those newly freed countries were anything but certain at the time. Bosnia was a starkly destabilizing factor in a far more unstable continent. The fighting that began in the spring of 1992 was not quite three years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and less than a year after the attempted coup of August 1991 in Russia, and came hard on the heels of the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Today, the picture has changed again. Now that Europe is no longer the fault line of a divided world, it looks ever more like a retirement community with good food and an excellent cultural calendar. Spies cut from the George Smiley cloth could really come in from the cold, retiring with legions of their countrymen to the Spanish coast, with no more to worry about than the decline of the pound against the euro and the sinking value of their condos.

The European Union has its share of problems, including a rapidly graying population projected to shrink by 50 million people by 2050 and deep troubles in integrating the immigrants — particularly from Muslim countries — it so drastically needs to reverse the demographic slide. And the union’s energy security depends on its often capricious and at times menacing neighbor to the east, Russia.

Russia’s invasion of Georgia last summer served as a stern reminder that things can still get rough outside of the gated community, and certainly made newer members like Poland and Estonia nervous about the sturdiness of the fence.

Renewed fighting in Bosnia may not launch World War III, but it could well spread to other parts of the former Yugoslavia, including Kosovo. Kosovo declared independence last year, and the United States Embassy in the Serbian capital, Belgrade, burned at the hands of angry rioters. I walked the streets in the aftermath, interviewing Serbs, and found rage, sadness and desperation even among the most pro-Western elements of society.

It was something of a pleasant surprise, then, to return with Mr. Biden this year and find average Serbs on the same streets sounding deeply pragmatic about the visit by an American politician who not only represented the superpower that had bombed them but was personally an early and staunch supporter of Muslims in both Bosnia and Kosovo. While there were holdouts, most said that jobs and freedom to travel trumped old enmities.

With any luck the sentiment will find more traction in neighboring Bosnia too, drowning out the extreme voices and their loose talk of war. Given how far the world’s attention has wandered, supporters of peace in the Balkans will have to hope they find their own path to moderation. Otherwise the crack of snipers’ bullets and the whistle of mortar shells could herald the terrible spectacle of a preventable return to bloodshed.

#131 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 08/09/2009 09:12
by dallton
@shoba, taj tekst je vec 3 dana bajat, raspravili smo ga gore

mnogo realnija izjava
Iako u BiH još traje proces dejtonske stabilizacije i definisanja države, ipak je započeo i evrointegracioni proces. Ti procesi bi trebalo da dovedu do promjene u strukturi države, kažu u Međunarodnoj kriznoj grupi.


Situacija u BiH jeste napeta, ali nije opasna, procjena je Međunarodne krizne grupe. Odnosi unutar političke elite jesu usijaniji nego što su bili u posljednjih godina, ali seNema više onoga straha kao nakon potpisivanja Daytonskog sporazumaBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Nema više onoga straha kao nakon potpisivanja Daytonskog sporazuma ipak ne osjeća egzistencijalni strah koji je postojao u godinama poslije potpisivanja Dejtonskog sporazuma, kaže za DW Marko Prelec, direktor za Balkan u Međunarodnoj kriznoj grupi (International Crisis Group – ICG).

Iako svi govore o suštinskim pitanjima države - kakva će ona biti, može li opstati bez međunarodnog prisustva i slično - svi zapravo znaju da će država opstati. Odatle i ta čudna dvojnost u političkoj atmosferi u BiH. Retorika je, sa jedne strane veoma usijana, ali je sa druge i ležerna,” navodi Prelec.

Visoki predstavnik garancija da se država neće raspasti

Ono što posebno stvara tenziju u BiH jeste i najava zatvaranja Kancelarije Visokog predstavnika. Odluka o tome mogla bi biti donijeta u novembru, a provedena na proljeće sljedeće godine. U posljednjih 14 godina su Zastave BiH i OHR-aBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: OHR garancija za sigurnost?!političari u BiH navikli da rade u okruženju u kome je bio dominantan međunarodni kontekst, i umjesto da sami nađu način za upravljanje zemljom, uglavnom su tražili način da međunarodni predstavnici budu ti koji odlučuju, ali u skladu sa njihovim željama.

Tome mora da dođe kraj, a bosanskohercegovački lideri moraju da preuzmu svoju odgovornost, smatra Prelec: “Ono što Visoki predstavnik još uvijek nudi jeste jedna doza stabilnosti i garancije da se država neće raspasti. Međutim postoje i dugi mehanizmi, unutar same BiH, ali i od spolja, koji će moći da zamijene tu ulogu garancije.”



BiH potrebna nova arhitektura odlučivanja

Odluka Evropske komisije da izostavi BiH iz “paketa” zemalja koje bi trebalo da dobiju bezvizni režim od 2010. godine takođe može da dovede do povećanja tenzija, smatra Prelec. On kaže da je proces liberalizacije viznog režima tehničke, ali i političke prirode, kao i da je EU Izbjeglice se na konjskim kolima vraćaju u TurbeBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Ljudi se vratili svojim kućama, ali sada bez vize nikud ne mogu izvan BiH - za mnoge frustrirajućeimala dosta prostora da donese odluku u skladu sa svojim političkim potrebama i željama.

“Mislim da je Evropa pogriješila kada je dozvolila da se napravi razmak između BiH i drugih zemalja. Postoji taj 'razmak' u tehničkom smislu, i činjenica je da je Srbija tu naprednija, ali nije toliko naprednija da se nije moglo reći da će svi u paketu dobiti bezvizni režim sljedeće godine,
” kazao je Prelec.

Direktor Programa za Balkan u Međunarodnoj kriznoj grupi, kaže da BiH danas funkcioniše kao država, doduše sporo i neadekvatno, ali funkcioniše. Međutim, prema njegovim riječima, sadašnji model konsenzusa teško će se moći zadržati, a BiH će biti potrebna nova arhitektura odlučivanja.

#132 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 08/09/2009 12:26
by dallton
Predavanjima o Bosni od bogumila do danas, okruglim stolovima i prikazivanjem filma "Tunel" obilježeni su Bosanski dani u Kelnu. U publici je pored Bosanaca bilo i dosta Nijemaca. Manifestaciju je organizovao Europe Direkt - Informativni centar Evropske Komisije u Kelnu. To je dio evropske mreže EU, koja za cilj ima da građanima približi ne samo druge zemlje, članice EU već i zemlje koje žele da postanu njen dio.

Najzaslužnija za organizaciju skupa Aleksandra Schmidt Pendarovska pojašnjava kako je došlo do toga da i BiH bude predstavljena. "Počeli smo sa Makedonskim danima, ali da ne bi ispalo da samo Makedonce favoriziramo, organizovali smo Hrvatske dane, pa onda i dane Srbije. A onda smo pomislili da ne možemo a da nemamo i Bosanske dane. To su sve zemlje nasljednice Titove Jugoslavije, rekli smo ne može jedno bez drugog. Bosna ima i divne umjetnike, pjevače, muzičare sportiste, ali mi smo željeli ići na političku razinu".

Šta je međunacionalna mržnja, a šta manipulacija?

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Reinhardt Grieb, šef Akademija za mlade iz Walbeberga
Na predavanju i diskusiji bilo je govora o evropskoj budućnosti Bosne i Hercegovine i cijelog regiona. Bivši visoki predstavnik u BiH, Christian Schewarz Schilling, govorio je o mirovnom procesu, medijacijama i problemima sa kojima se susreće BiH. Politolog Zenahir Mraković govorio je o suživotu, naglašavajući da ono što u Evropi smatraju mržnjom zapravo nije mržnja među građanima, već manipulacija. Iz publike se javilo nekoliko Nijemaca.

Riječ je uzeo Reinhardt Grieb, rekavši da on, kao voditelj Akademije za mlade u Walberbergu između Kelna i Bona, često sa učenicima putuje u Republiku Srpsku i organizuje susrete mladih. Njegovi partneri su jedna škola u Kozarskoj Dubici i nevladina organizacija Putevi mira. On je naglasio da doživljava veliki nacionalizam i kulturno razdvajanje, koje se ne smanjuje već pojačava. Grieb navodi primjer da je na nastavi o demokratiji i ljudskim pravima, vidio kako su učenici kada su dobili zadatak da nacrtaju grb i zastavu BiH, crtali kartu Republiku Srpske.

Problemi se potiskuju

Grieb je rekao da postoji niz nepravilnosti na uštrb manjina, koje se pojavljuju posebno onda kada su Bošnjaci u konkurenciji sa Srbima, kada se radi o ocjenama, svjedočanstvima ili dobijanju radnih mjesta i dodao:

"Za razliku od Njemačke, gdje postoji tradicija socijalnog pokreta i kultura diskusije, mislim da ćemo u Bosni dugo čekati da se tamo organizuju diskusije između Bošnjaka i Srba. Gradonačelnik Dubice nam je rekao: "Ovdje nema problema." Naši njemački učenici su iskolačili oči i rekli da to ne može biti istina, jer ono što smo čuli od tamošnjih đaka i familija koje su nas primili, pa čak, da budemo fer, i od nekih učenika Srba bilo je suprotno. Problemi se dakle potiskuju, nema konfrontacije s prošlošću i tu sam pesimista."

Grieb je zaprepašten i činjenicom da se po Banjaluci u kioscima u samom centru prodaju majice sa likom Karadžića i Mladića. On se pita i šta radi pravosuđe: "Nikog nema da ode tamo i kaže, imaš 10 minuta da skloniš majice, inače ćemo ti zatvoriti kiosk. To je nešto što meni nedostaje."
a on se kao cudi sto je tako

#133

Posted: 10/09/2009 10:48
by Richard Peti
.

#134 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 17/09/2009 13:04
by ins
Bolji dio o BiH u stranim medijima:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32789005/ns ... inations//

Iliti samo tekst:
Bosnia: a model for the planet
In many ways, the country has what the rest of Europe has lost

By Richard Bangs

As reported on http://www.msnbc.com

“One of those places where you come as a guest, leave as an acquaintance, and return as a friend” — Nenad Velickovic


Laura Hubber
Pocitelj, an art colony among the fig trees, shaded by the labyrinthine walls of Sahat-kula, the Ottoman fort strategically situated above the Neretva so that watchmen could see approaching invaders for miles. The mosque in the fort has been superbly rebuilt after being razed during the war, and the grand watchtower allows unobstructed views of the limestone-encased river with water clear as local brandy.

The Bosnia we know from images of the war — the bombed and bullet-ridden buildings, the scars from the 1,200-day siege of Sarajevo — has kept from view a Bosnia we don’t know, a place where Nature has been big-hearted with its gifts. The country described sometimes as the heart between the mouths of two lions, hosts one of the two greatest tracks of primeval forests in Europe, unmatched biodiversity, daunting mountain faces yet to be climbed, deep gorges yet to be traversed, wild rivers with water so pure you can cup your hand to drink, some of the highest concentrations of wildlife, and perhaps the last highland tribes of semi-nomadic peoples on the continent. In many ways, Bosnia today has what the rest of Europe has lost.

With Laura Hubber of the BBC, who in the 90s served as a teacher in Sarajevo, I head to Bosnia with a skeptic’s shrug to do some hiking, rafting and climbing throughout the country. We began with a bear quest in Sutjeska National Park, about two twisting hours by car from Sarajevo. The park is 17,500 hectares, larger than some small countries, with no trail maps or guides. When we step into this cathedral of old-growth beech and black pine, there is recognition that we are probably the only ones here.

Tourism is still a secret here. We make our way to an overview at the base of Bosnia’s highest peak, the 7,828-foot-high Maglic Mountain on the Montenegrin border, the last great sigh of the Alps extending south from Switzerland. From here we set out to hike to an Alpine aerie to look for bears, wolves, and wild goats, chamois. Before the war, Bosnia had the second highest concentration of brown bears in the world, after Canada, and perhaps the greatest number of wolves in Europe, and chamois were so ubiquitous they would sometimes leap over hikers’ heads. Now, nobody knows how many remain, but some in the area guess perhaps as many as 1,000 bears, which would still rank highest in the region.

But we find no bears on our quest. Nor wild goats, nor wolves. Just waving fields of wildflowers, and the perfumed Alpine wind. But that is fine, as the beauty is exquisite, almost intoxicating, and I sit for an hour or so in some sort of state of bliss.


Laura Hubber
The Kravica Waterfalls on the crystal-clear Trebizat River are almost 1000’ wide and drop over 75’, a short drive from the religious pilgrimage site of Medjugorje.

As the sun burns out the remnants of the day, we make our way to one of the first eco-lodges in the country, Motel Sunce, up a long dirt road atop the windswept Podvelezje Plateau, roosting beneath a stunning mountain ridge called Velez. The lodge is modest and fashioned from concrete — not the western vision of an eco-lodge, but the food is organically grown, and certainly the staff is local. No monies being drained away to multinationals here. After we sup on organically grown peppers stuffed with beef and rice, traditional salad and soup with hyper-crisp fresh vegetables, farmers’ cheese, and share a glass of homemade Herzegovinian rakija, there is a feeling of having found a little peace of mind on a wilderness table in the back of Bosnia.

The Neretva River is the Nile of Bosnia. For centuries it was the passageway from the sea to the riches of the interior, the river road up which sailed explorers, settlers, traders, and conquerors, from the Illyrians to the Romans to the Ottomans to the Austro-Hungarians to the Serbs and Croats in attempts to plunder or possess this land. And just as the Nile has the pyramids, the Thames its London Bridge, the Seine its Eiffel Tower, San Francisco its Golden Gate, all emblems that transcend the tyranny of geography and politics, Bosnia for 500 years had Stari Most, the gracious single-span link across the Neretva. Commissioned by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1559, completed seven years later, the elegant bow withstood earthquakes, floods, battles, and two world wars. But on November 9, 1993, Croat forces pummeled the little footbridge with tank shells, and after long resistance, it fell like a proud warrior into the crying, hissing currents. For a moment, denominations on all sides were united in grief over a cherished monument destroyed. The hearts of thousands sank with the stone.

But on July 22, 2004, nine years after the war ended, the bridge reopened, and the sky was lit not with the lights of conflict, but with fireworks, the pyrotechnics of peace. The symbolism happily cried with cliché, the bridge over the ethnic gap, connecting East and West, church to mosque, the past to the future. And it brought back a proud tradition that dated back to the Ottomans: the Mostari Bridge Divers.

The Mostaris were the original bridge keepers, who maintained the 100-foot span and took tolls from those who passed. In the 17th century, however, a Turkish travel writer described how young men would jump from the 80-foot-high bridge as a rite of passage. The Mostari today jump for tourists, and their touro-euros.


Laura Hubber
River guide leaping off Strbacki Buk, the waterfall at the put-in on the Una River, Bosnia.


On the bridge’s western abutment at the entrance to the Mostari Divers Club, we meet Ermin Saric, one of the eight official bridge divers, meaning he dives professionally, it’s his job. He’s been diving since age 14, and is 24 now, and says he will dive as long as he can. He thinks the body can handle the punishment until around 50, at which point the shock of the cold water might trigger a heart attack. Ermin says about one or two people die each year diving, and there are many injuries, but all these casualties are from nonprofessionals—swaggering tourists, locals on a dare, Saturday night drunks. As long as Ermin can remember there have been no fatalities among club members, as they know how to dive it right.

Ermin offers to demonstrate. He skips the part where he passes a floppy hat to tourists lining the parapets — ever since the bridge was listed as a World Heritage Site, the number of visitors has steadily increased, as have the fortunes of the divers. As he stands at the apex, he drenches his head and limbs in cold, cold water from a big bottle to acclimatize his body for the freezing Neretva. He climbs over the matrix of metal bars that protect innocents from the precipice, and then he “enters into the world of diving.” There are butterflies in his stomach; they have yet to go away after all these years and countless jumps. Then he spreads his arms as though flying in the wind and leaps into the void.

About two-thirds of the way down, he draws his arms tight against his sides, and firms his legs straight and fast against one another. He tucks his chin against his chest, and points his toes to the fast-approaching water. Then he hits the river “like a bullet,” and with a sound like glass shattering he disappears. There is an awful silence as all who watch hold a collective breath ... and then, whoosh, Ermin’s head pops to the surface, and he swims to shore. If the demand is there, Ermin will jump six or seven times today.


Laura Hubber
Old Jajce Watermills near Pliva Lake, Bosnia.
There’s no health care or insurance with this job, certainly no job security. But Ermin is thankful to be a Mostari, and he admits there are perks: no local women are divers, but they admire the men who are, and Ermin is never without girlfriends, he grins.


Although Mostar is far and away the most famed feature of the Neretva, there is more delight downstream. A short drive takes us to the delta, where the Neretva begins its fan into the Adriatic, right on the Croatian-Bosnian border. Not only have waves of armies flowed up this waterway, but also thousands of birds, who biannually migrate from Africa, across the Mediterranean, up this corridor into Europe for the summer, then back again. The biggest bird resort in Europe sits along these banks.

A bit farther up the river is Pocitelj, an art colony among the fig trees, shaded by the labyrinthine walls of Sahat-kula, the Ottoman fort strategically situated above the Neretva so that watchmen could see approaching invaders for miles. The mosque in the fort has been superbly rebuilt after being razed during the war, and the grand watchtower allows unobstructed views of the limestone-encased river with water clear as local brandy.


Laura Hubber
Rafting in Bosnia ... the rapids are world-class; the water so clean you can cup your hand and drink it.


Up the Buna River, a Neretva tributary near Mostar, there is a karst cave that seems to deliver cherished secrets as clearly as if uttered with a voice. At its side shines the 17th-century Velagic House, a dervish monastery. The water, filtered by the porous rock, spills like the translucent eyes of an eagle. Swallows sing and flit. This is a back eddy of Bosnia, spared the wounds of war. Glades of trees stand tall, the stream runs pure, the monastery lusters as it has for 400 years. This the way Bosnia used to be, and what it aspires to be again in the future.

Down the road is Medugorje, famous for its apparitions of the Virgin Mary, which first appeared to six boys in 1981, and in wake has prompted countless pilgrims to visit, spawning a considerable religious tourism industry. Less known are the wineries of the region, including some of the oldest in Europe, such as the Vinarija Stankela Stanko winery. Climbing down into a 400 year-old wine cellar where the walls are lined with bottles stacked in terracotta earthenware tubes, the owner, Vasilj Stanko, produces the largest tasting glasses in the world, and fills them to the brim with a 90-year-old vintage.

He offers up cheese, bread, and a dry cured dried ham on a cutting stand, and we slowly try to sip the hospitality. But before we make much of a dent, he serves up another specialty, Extra Loza, the local grape brandy, and we capitulate and offer to buy a trunk-load of his wines, and head to the sunlight.

We are in the mountain valley of Diva Grabovica, just off the Neretva River, in the stony heart of the Dinaric Alps. Behind us is Velki Kuk, the largest rock face in the Balkan Peninsula, over 3,400 feet sheer, taller than Yosemite’s El Capitan. Framing it are ragged beech and pine-covered peaks, which some locals have tagged the “Herzegovinian Himalaya.” This is a the mnemonically inhospitable Prenj-Cvrsnica-Cabulja National Park, after the three mountain chains that connect here, along with the interface of the Mediterranean and Alpine ecosystems. This was once the hunting grounds for Tito and his Communist elites—packed with European mouflon, chamois, boar, and bear.

We continue our trek up the Neretva River, filtered to a glassy sheen from its limestone frame; it almost seems lit from beneath as we glance down from the precipitous road. At the little way-station of Konjic, where some of the finest wood furniture in Europe is crafted, we stop at a riverside restaurant and meet Samir Krivic, owner of Rafting Europe.

Over a glass of Rafterica ( a plum brandy brewed by a former Olympic whitewater coach now a raft guide on the Una River in north), Samir offers to take us on a 14-mile bolt down the Neretva, the river he calls the best rafting run in the world. He’s prejudiced; he admits. He’s been running the Neretva for 30 years, since he was 8. Now he is a physical education teacher at the nearby elementary school in the winters, and runs his rafting operation in the summers, mixing the two as often as he can, teaching students environmental education during school, then taking them down the river on clean-up expeditions during vacation.

At the put-in, Samir brags the run is ranked class III-IV, with one Class V “jump,” which would place the course in same league as the Rogue, Selway, Tuolumne, and many of the great white-water rivers of the American West, but the wimpy Slovenian life jackets, and the 1,000-cubic-feet-per-second river volume seem to belie the boast.


Laura Hubber
Bosnia crafts some of the finest furniture in Europe. Here an artisan applies his skill at the Brothers Niksic family furniture studio in Konjic, on the banks of the Neretva River.


Minutes later, we’re riding through a glacially carved canyon, where once a river of frozen water spilled, then thawed, cracking the gorge like an egg. The sail is dreamlike, down a delirium of blue-gray limestone, with trout-filled vitreous pools and sudden springs spewing from the walls. At one spout Samir pulls us over and tugs a bouquet of wild mint from the ground, grinds it in his palms, and then mixes it with the cold, clear water, creating instant iced tea, or a mojito without the rum. There remains virtually no rafting river in the U.S. where drinking its water doesn’t risk catching Giardia lamblia or some other nasty flagellated protozoan parasite, but here the luminous water is eminently potable, and we all drink with wild abandon.

At last we ride the vectors into the rapids, and thankfully they are not the uncorked tempests Samir seemed to describe. Instead they are delightful drops of interference waves, little sacraments of crests and troughs. But what the Neretva lacks in muscle it more than makes up in the spectacle it has scrawled from the rock, towering walls, temples, buttes and monuments: feathery waterfalls, and gardens of wildflowers and stately trees inhaling the warm coastal breezes.


Laura Hubber
Canoe, at Hutovo Blato Nature Park, the biggest bird resort in Europe. Thousands of birds biannually migrate from Africa, across the Mediterranean, up this corridor into Europe for the summer, then back again.

In the slanted light of evening, a mist begins to gyre, and as we drift closer we see it doodling lazy curlicues up the abutments of a bridge. If, as some have postured, water is the next oil, the precious global resource in limited supply, then Bosnia might be a one-country OPEC with its luxury of freshwater fonts.

As we make the last paddle strokes, we glide over the rusted magazine to an AK-47 among the colored pebbles, and I ask Samir if he fought in the war. Everyone we’ve met in Bosnia over 30 harbors memories of the horror and typically wants to tell the stories, to relive the searing moments. But Samir says he doesn’t want to talk about the war. “We’re all in the same raft now. We all breathe the same air, drink the same water. Let’s just enjoy our river. It is the best river in the world.”

We grind up a dirt road high above the Neretva River canyon and stop at various overlooks, where we gaze down at screaming rafters on the limpid ribbon, and then upward across a green countenance of 100-year-old pines and beeches. We wind higher and higher, rising fluently into an immense horizon, until at last we spill across a rocky plateau above the tree line, into the village of Umoljani. The klix Muslim community near where several events were staged in the 1984 Winter Olympics was burned down during the war.

But it has rebuilt itself and discovered new economies for a traditional way of life. Spread across the tableland are gardens of organically grown potatoes, carrots, onions, lettuce, cabbage, and wheat, fertilized with manure, grown without pesticides or herbicides or chemicals of any kind. It is the method of growing they’ve practiced for centuries, yet today they are exporting these crops to groceries and restaurants in Sarajevo and beyond for a market increasingly willing to pay premiums for organically grown food.

Looking about the village we see several buildings in various stages of construction. Of late adventure travelers on treks have come to this scenic outpost in increasing numbers, and now village entrepreneurs are building eco-lodges in childlike bright colors to accommodate the visitors. The people of Umoljani see ecotourism and organic farming as their future; the alternative sustainable economies to felling forests, damming rivers, or abusing this singular land for short-term profits. This is the living hope and opportunity for Bosnia.

One of the nice little sleights of logic in the wake of the Bosnian war is that land mines may have saved the country’s greatest asset, its large swaths of old-growth forest. As we wend our way up the edge of the Rakitnica Canyon, a tributary gorge to the Neretva that may be the most unexplored in southern Europe, we pass a seductively alluring leafy copse marked with a red sign sporting skull and crossbones: “Pazi”: “Mine,” where loggers fear to tread.

We’re in the boundaries of the proposed Bjelašnica National Park. In the middle of what seems the end of the world, we pull to a wide spot, jump out, and start walking into something that seems from a fairy tale: the highest and most remote community in Bosnia, perhaps the Balkans, the little feudal village of Lukomir.

The village itself seems hung with rusty nails to the rim of the Rakitnica, with collapsed roofs, pieces of tin patched over broken tiles, rotting timbers, abandoned wood carts, even an ancient red Yugo that looks like it took a wrong turn in the quondam Yugoslavia and ran out of gas.


Laura Hubber
The beverage of choice for hard-core Bosnian rafters: Rafterica. Richard Bangs shares a bottle of the homemade rakija with brewer and legendary Bosnian rafter Senad Zulic (aka Coach White) along the banks of the Una River.

One of the matriarchs of Lukomir, Rahima Comor, offers to show us around her community, which looks more relic than real. She points out roofs crafted of cherry wood shingles, a technique klix back hundreds of years; the men cutting grass as the women gather it into mounds, preparing for the harsh six-month winter when the snowbound village is cut off from the outside; the stecci, medieval tombstones, that have washed down from the hill, and are now adjacent to a newer cemetery where I can’t help but notice that most of the occupants lived to ripe old ages. “There is very little stress here; and the food is as healthy as you can get. No added hormones, the air is pure, the water clean. Everything is authentic and simple,” she tells us.

As if to prove this ecumenicalism, we’re invited into her home, which is a portal to Europe 1,000 years ago. It has just three low-ceilinged rooms and an attic. The first is an all purpose mudroom for footwear and clothes, and where raw food is prepared.

The second has a wood-burning stove, a worn Persian rug, and a low round table where the family dines cross-legged. On the wall hangs a sheepskin prayer rug, as this room is also for worship. The third is the bedroom, where Rahima raised her six children. We peek into the dark, smoky attic and see hanging cheese and shanks of meat. There are no chimneys in the Lukomir homes; the wood smoke circulates in the attic as a sealant, and to cure food. There is a clock ticking through the quiet somewhere in the house, but it has no need — time has stopped here.


Laura Hubber
Garden wall, Muslibegovic House, traditional Ottoman residence, Mostar, along the Neretva River.


Rahima turns a coffee grinder as a potato pie cooks in the stove. She wears clothes suitable for a Renaissance Faire, though this is her daily ensemble: a head scarf, wool pantaloons, cotton nightgown shirt, wool vest, and socks, all handmade. Rahima and other villagers have found a modest market in selling hand-knitted socks, sharing their homes for overnights, and serving traditional shepherds’ meals; economics that help them live and stay in a place they love.

Back outside we sit on a log, sip thick coffee and share a view across a chasm that seems to transcend time. In the heart of this uncommon culture, in this unequaled environment, it does seem that while the rest of the world has made irrevocable mistakes, Bosnia is at a magical inflection point, a crossroads, where it has the opportunity to be a model for the planet ... and visiting now is not only personally rewarding in ways distinctive to this place and time, but it can only help to bolster and point the way for the good path.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

#135 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 17/09/2009 13:10
by Maxwell2008

#136

Posted: 17/09/2009 13:20
by Richard Peti
.

#137

Posted: 19/09/2009 15:37
by Richard Peti
.

#138 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 19/09/2009 15:47
by liquidhorse
ins wrote:Bolji dio o BiH u stranim medijima:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32789005/ns ... inations//

Iliti samo tekst:
Bosnia: a model for the planet
In many ways, the country has what the rest of Europe has lost

By Richard Bangs

As reported on http://www.msnbc.com

“One of those places where you come as a guest, leave as an acquaintance, and return as a friend” — Nenad Velickovic


Laura Hubber
Pocitelj, an art colony among the fig trees, shaded by the labyrinthine walls of Sahat-kula, the Ottoman fort strategically situated above the Neretva so that watchmen could see approaching invaders for miles. The mosque in the fort has been superbly rebuilt after being razed during the war, and the grand watchtower allows unobstructed views of the limestone-encased river with water clear as local brandy.

The Bosnia we know from images of the war — the bombed and bullet-ridden buildings, the scars from the 1,200-day siege of Sarajevo — has kept from view a Bosnia we don’t know, a place where Nature has been big-hearted with its gifts. The country described sometimes as the heart between the mouths of two lions, hosts one of the two greatest tracks of primeval forests in Europe, unmatched biodiversity, daunting mountain faces yet to be climbed, deep gorges yet to be traversed, wild rivers with water so pure you can cup your hand to drink, some of the highest concentrations of wildlife, and perhaps the last highland tribes of semi-nomadic peoples on the continent. In many ways, Bosnia today has what the rest of Europe has lost.

With Laura Hubber of the BBC, who in the 90s served as a teacher in Sarajevo, I head to Bosnia with a skeptic’s shrug to do some hiking, rafting and climbing throughout the country. We began with a bear quest in Sutjeska National Park, about two twisting hours by car from Sarajevo. The park is 17,500 hectares, larger than some small countries, with no trail maps or guides. When we step into this cathedral of old-growth beech and black pine, there is recognition that we are probably the only ones here.

Tourism is still a secret here. We make our way to an overview at the base of Bosnia’s highest peak, the 7,828-foot-high Maglic Mountain on the Montenegrin border, the last great sigh of the Alps extending south from Switzerland. From here we set out to hike to an Alpine aerie to look for bears, wolves, and wild goats, chamois. Before the war, Bosnia had the second highest concentration of brown bears in the world, after Canada, and perhaps the greatest number of wolves in Europe, and chamois were so ubiquitous they would sometimes leap over hikers’ heads. Now, nobody knows how many remain, but some in the area guess perhaps as many as 1,000 bears, which would still rank highest in the region.

But we find no bears on our quest. Nor wild goats, nor wolves. Just waving fields of wildflowers, and the perfumed Alpine wind. But that is fine, as the beauty is exquisite, almost intoxicating, and I sit for an hour or so in some sort of state of bliss.


Laura Hubber
The Kravica Waterfalls on the crystal-clear Trebizat River are almost 1000’ wide and drop over 75’, a short drive from the religious pilgrimage site of Medjugorje.

As the sun burns out the remnants of the day, we make our way to one of the first eco-lodges in the country, Motel Sunce, up a long dirt road atop the windswept Podvelezje Plateau, roosting beneath a stunning mountain ridge called Velez. The lodge is modest and fashioned from concrete — not the western vision of an eco-lodge, but the food is organically grown, and certainly the staff is local. No monies being drained away to multinationals here. After we sup on organically grown peppers stuffed with beef and rice, traditional salad and soup with hyper-crisp fresh vegetables, farmers’ cheese, and share a glass of homemade Herzegovinian rakija, there is a feeling of having found a little peace of mind on a wilderness table in the back of Bosnia.

The Neretva River is the Nile of Bosnia. For centuries it was the passageway from the sea to the riches of the interior, the river road up which sailed explorers, settlers, traders, and conquerors, from the Illyrians to the Romans to the Ottomans to the Austro-Hungarians to the Serbs and Croats in attempts to plunder or possess this land. And just as the Nile has the pyramids, the Thames its London Bridge, the Seine its Eiffel Tower, San Francisco its Golden Gate, all emblems that transcend the tyranny of geography and politics, Bosnia for 500 years had Stari Most, the gracious single-span link across the Neretva. Commissioned by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1559, completed seven years later, the elegant bow withstood earthquakes, floods, battles, and two world wars. But on November 9, 1993, Croat forces pummeled the little footbridge with tank shells, and after long resistance, it fell like a proud warrior into the crying, hissing currents. For a moment, denominations on all sides were united in grief over a cherished monument destroyed. The hearts of thousands sank with the stone.

But on July 22, 2004, nine years after the war ended, the bridge reopened, and the sky was lit not with the lights of conflict, but with fireworks, the pyrotechnics of peace. The symbolism happily cried with cliché, the bridge over the ethnic gap, connecting East and West, church to mosque, the past to the future. And it brought back a proud tradition that dated back to the Ottomans: the Mostari Bridge Divers.

The Mostaris were the original bridge keepers, who maintained the 100-foot span and took tolls from those who passed. In the 17th century, however, a Turkish travel writer described how young men would jump from the 80-foot-high bridge as a rite of passage. The Mostari today jump for tourists, and their touro-euros.


Laura Hubber
River guide leaping off Strbacki Buk, the waterfall at the put-in on the Una River, Bosnia.


On the bridge’s western abutment at the entrance to the Mostari Divers Club, we meet Ermin Saric, one of the eight official bridge divers, meaning he dives professionally, it’s his job. He’s been diving since age 14, and is 24 now, and says he will dive as long as he can. He thinks the body can handle the punishment until around 50, at which point the shock of the cold water might trigger a heart attack. Ermin says about one or two people die each year diving, and there are many injuries, but all these casualties are from nonprofessionals—swaggering tourists, locals on a dare, Saturday night drunks. As long as Ermin can remember there have been no fatalities among club members, as they know how to dive it right.

Ermin offers to demonstrate. He skips the part where he passes a floppy hat to tourists lining the parapets — ever since the bridge was listed as a World Heritage Site, the number of visitors has steadily increased, as have the fortunes of the divers. As he stands at the apex, he drenches his head and limbs in cold, cold water from a big bottle to acclimatize his body for the freezing Neretva. He climbs over the matrix of metal bars that protect innocents from the precipice, and then he “enters into the world of diving.” There are butterflies in his stomach; they have yet to go away after all these years and countless jumps. Then he spreads his arms as though flying in the wind and leaps into the void.

About two-thirds of the way down, he draws his arms tight against his sides, and firms his legs straight and fast against one another. He tucks his chin against his chest, and points his toes to the fast-approaching water. Then he hits the river “like a bullet,” and with a sound like glass shattering he disappears. There is an awful silence as all who watch hold a collective breath ... and then, whoosh, Ermin’s head pops to the surface, and he swims to shore. If the demand is there, Ermin will jump six or seven times today.


Laura Hubber
Old Jajce Watermills near Pliva Lake, Bosnia.
There’s no health care or insurance with this job, certainly no job security. But Ermin is thankful to be a Mostari, and he admits there are perks: no local women are divers, but they admire the men who are, and Ermin is never without girlfriends, he grins.


Although Mostar is far and away the most famed feature of the Neretva, there is more delight downstream. A short drive takes us to the delta, where the Neretva begins its fan into the Adriatic, right on the Croatian-Bosnian border. Not only have waves of armies flowed up this waterway, but also thousands of birds, who biannually migrate from Africa, across the Mediterranean, up this corridor into Europe for the summer, then back again. The biggest bird resort in Europe sits along these banks.

A bit farther up the river is Pocitelj, an art colony among the fig trees, shaded by the labyrinthine walls of Sahat-kula, the Ottoman fort strategically situated above the Neretva so that watchmen could see approaching invaders for miles. The mosque in the fort has been superbly rebuilt after being razed during the war, and the grand watchtower allows unobstructed views of the limestone-encased river with water clear as local brandy.


Laura Hubber
Rafting in Bosnia ... the rapids are world-class; the water so clean you can cup your hand and drink it.


Up the Buna River, a Neretva tributary near Mostar, there is a karst cave that seems to deliver cherished secrets as clearly as if uttered with a voice. At its side shines the 17th-century Velagic House, a dervish monastery. The water, filtered by the porous rock, spills like the translucent eyes of an eagle. Swallows sing and flit. This is a back eddy of Bosnia, spared the wounds of war. Glades of trees stand tall, the stream runs pure, the monastery lusters as it has for 400 years. This the way Bosnia used to be, and what it aspires to be again in the future.

Down the road is Medugorje, famous for its apparitions of the Virgin Mary, which first appeared to six boys in 1981, and in wake has prompted countless pilgrims to visit, spawning a considerable religious tourism industry. Less known are the wineries of the region, including some of the oldest in Europe, such as the Vinarija Stankela Stanko winery. Climbing down into a 400 year-old wine cellar where the walls are lined with bottles stacked in terracotta earthenware tubes, the owner, Vasilj Stanko, produces the largest tasting glasses in the world, and fills them to the brim with a 90-year-old vintage.

He offers up cheese, bread, and a dry cured dried ham on a cutting stand, and we slowly try to sip the hospitality. But before we make much of a dent, he serves up another specialty, Extra Loza, the local grape brandy, and we capitulate and offer to buy a trunk-load of his wines, and head to the sunlight.

We are in the mountain valley of Diva Grabovica, just off the Neretva River, in the stony heart of the Dinaric Alps. Behind us is Velki Kuk, the largest rock face in the Balkan Peninsula, over 3,400 feet sheer, taller than Yosemite’s El Capitan. Framing it are ragged beech and pine-covered peaks, which some locals have tagged the “Herzegovinian Himalaya.” This is a the mnemonically inhospitable Prenj-Cvrsnica-Cabulja National Park, after the three mountain chains that connect here, along with the interface of the Mediterranean and Alpine ecosystems. This was once the hunting grounds for Tito and his Communist elites—packed with European mouflon, chamois, boar, and bear.

We continue our trek up the Neretva River, filtered to a glassy sheen from its limestone frame; it almost seems lit from beneath as we glance down from the precipitous road. At the little way-station of Konjic, where some of the finest wood furniture in Europe is crafted, we stop at a riverside restaurant and meet Samir Krivic, owner of Rafting Europe.

Over a glass of Rafterica ( a plum brandy brewed by a former Olympic whitewater coach now a raft guide on the Una River in north), Samir offers to take us on a 14-mile bolt down the Neretva, the river he calls the best rafting run in the world. He’s prejudiced; he admits. He’s been running the Neretva for 30 years, since he was 8. Now he is a physical education teacher at the nearby elementary school in the winters, and runs his rafting operation in the summers, mixing the two as often as he can, teaching students environmental education during school, then taking them down the river on clean-up expeditions during vacation.

At the put-in, Samir brags the run is ranked class III-IV, with one Class V “jump,” which would place the course in same league as the Rogue, Selway, Tuolumne, and many of the great white-water rivers of the American West, but the wimpy Slovenian life jackets, and the 1,000-cubic-feet-per-second river volume seem to belie the boast.


Laura Hubber
Bosnia crafts some of the finest furniture in Europe. Here an artisan applies his skill at the Brothers Niksic family furniture studio in Konjic, on the banks of the Neretva River.


Minutes later, we’re riding through a glacially carved canyon, where once a river of frozen water spilled, then thawed, cracking the gorge like an egg. The sail is dreamlike, down a delirium of blue-gray limestone, with trout-filled vitreous pools and sudden springs spewing from the walls. At one spout Samir pulls us over and tugs a bouquet of wild mint from the ground, grinds it in his palms, and then mixes it with the cold, clear water, creating instant iced tea, or a mojito without the rum. There remains virtually no rafting river in the U.S. where drinking its water doesn’t risk catching Giardia lamblia or some other nasty flagellated protozoan parasite, but here the luminous water is eminently potable, and we all drink with wild abandon.

At last we ride the vectors into the rapids, and thankfully they are not the uncorked tempests Samir seemed to describe. Instead they are delightful drops of interference waves, little sacraments of crests and troughs. But what the Neretva lacks in muscle it more than makes up in the spectacle it has scrawled from the rock, towering walls, temples, buttes and monuments: feathery waterfalls, and gardens of wildflowers and stately trees inhaling the warm coastal breezes.


Laura Hubber
Canoe, at Hutovo Blato Nature Park, the biggest bird resort in Europe. Thousands of birds biannually migrate from Africa, across the Mediterranean, up this corridor into Europe for the summer, then back again.

In the slanted light of evening, a mist begins to gyre, and as we drift closer we see it doodling lazy curlicues up the abutments of a bridge. If, as some have postured, water is the next oil, the precious global resource in limited supply, then Bosnia might be a one-country OPEC with its luxury of freshwater fonts.

As we make the last paddle strokes, we glide over the rusted magazine to an AK-47 among the colored pebbles, and I ask Samir if he fought in the war. Everyone we’ve met in Bosnia over 30 harbors memories of the horror and typically wants to tell the stories, to relive the searing moments. But Samir says he doesn’t want to talk about the war. “We’re all in the same raft now. We all breathe the same air, drink the same water. Let’s just enjoy our river. It is the best river in the world.”

We grind up a dirt road high above the Neretva River canyon and stop at various overlooks, where we gaze down at screaming rafters on the limpid ribbon, and then upward across a green countenance of 100-year-old pines and beeches. We wind higher and higher, rising fluently into an immense horizon, until at last we spill across a rocky plateau above the tree line, into the village of Umoljani. The klix Muslim community near where several events were staged in the 1984 Winter Olympics was burned down during the war.

But it has rebuilt itself and discovered new economies for a traditional way of life. Spread across the tableland are gardens of organically grown potatoes, carrots, onions, lettuce, cabbage, and wheat, fertilized with manure, grown without pesticides or herbicides or chemicals of any kind. It is the method of growing they’ve practiced for centuries, yet today they are exporting these crops to groceries and restaurants in Sarajevo and beyond for a market increasingly willing to pay premiums for organically grown food.

Looking about the village we see several buildings in various stages of construction. Of late adventure travelers on treks have come to this scenic outpost in increasing numbers, and now village entrepreneurs are building eco-lodges in childlike bright colors to accommodate the visitors. The people of Umoljani see ecotourism and organic farming as their future; the alternative sustainable economies to felling forests, damming rivers, or abusing this singular land for short-term profits. This is the living hope and opportunity for Bosnia.

One of the nice little sleights of logic in the wake of the Bosnian war is that land mines may have saved the country’s greatest asset, its large swaths of old-growth forest. As we wend our way up the edge of the Rakitnica Canyon, a tributary gorge to the Neretva that may be the most unexplored in southern Europe, we pass a seductively alluring leafy copse marked with a red sign sporting skull and crossbones: “Pazi”: “Mine,” where loggers fear to tread.

We’re in the boundaries of the proposed Bjelašnica National Park. In the middle of what seems the end of the world, we pull to a wide spot, jump out, and start walking into something that seems from a fairy tale: the highest and most remote community in Bosnia, perhaps the Balkans, the little feudal village of Lukomir.

The village itself seems hung with rusty nails to the rim of the Rakitnica, with collapsed roofs, pieces of tin patched over broken tiles, rotting timbers, abandoned wood carts, even an ancient red Yugo that looks like it took a wrong turn in the quondam Yugoslavia and ran out of gas.


Laura Hubber
The beverage of choice for hard-core Bosnian rafters: Rafterica. Richard Bangs shares a bottle of the homemade rakija with brewer and legendary Bosnian rafter Senad Zulic (aka Coach White) along the banks of the Una River.

One of the matriarchs of Lukomir, Rahima Comor, offers to show us around her community, which looks more relic than real. She points out roofs crafted of cherry wood shingles, a technique klix back hundreds of years; the men cutting grass as the women gather it into mounds, preparing for the harsh six-month winter when the snowbound village is cut off from the outside; the stecci, medieval tombstones, that have washed down from the hill, and are now adjacent to a newer cemetery where I can’t help but notice that most of the occupants lived to ripe old ages. “There is very little stress here; and the food is as healthy as you can get. No added hormones, the air is pure, the water clean. Everything is authentic and simple,” she tells us.

As if to prove this ecumenicalism, we’re invited into her home, which is a portal to Europe 1,000 years ago. It has just three low-ceilinged rooms and an attic. The first is an all purpose mudroom for footwear and clothes, and where raw food is prepared.

The second has a wood-burning stove, a worn Persian rug, and a low round table where the family dines cross-legged. On the wall hangs a sheepskin prayer rug, as this room is also for worship. The third is the bedroom, where Rahima raised her six children. We peek into the dark, smoky attic and see hanging cheese and shanks of meat. There are no chimneys in the Lukomir homes; the wood smoke circulates in the attic as a sealant, and to cure food. There is a clock ticking through the quiet somewhere in the house, but it has no need — time has stopped here.


Laura Hubber
Garden wall, Muslibegovic House, traditional Ottoman residence, Mostar, along the Neretva River.


Rahima turns a coffee grinder as a potato pie cooks in the stove. She wears clothes suitable for a Renaissance Faire, though this is her daily ensemble: a head scarf, wool pantaloons, cotton nightgown shirt, wool vest, and socks, all handmade. Rahima and other villagers have found a modest market in selling hand-knitted socks, sharing their homes for overnights, and serving traditional shepherds’ meals; economics that help them live and stay in a place they love.

Back outside we sit on a log, sip thick coffee and share a view across a chasm that seems to transcend time. In the heart of this uncommon culture, in this unequaled environment, it does seem that while the rest of the world has made irrevocable mistakes, Bosnia is at a magical inflection point, a crossroads, where it has the opportunity to be a model for the planet ... and visiting now is not only personally rewarding in ways distinctive to this place and time, but it can only help to bolster and point the way for the good path.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

svo vrijeme mislimo da smo u qurcu a u stvari mi smo primjer za cijeli svijet.

#139 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 22/09/2009 15:13
by Shoba
New York Times
.....
Letter
A Bosnia at Peace

Published: September 21, 2009

To the Editor:

“While Europe Sleeps, Bosnia Seethes” (Week in Review, Sept. 6) paints a picture of Bosnia and Herzegovina that few of its citizens will recognize.

Although it has become unfashionable to say so, ours is a country at peace. The leaders of Bosnia and Herzegovina are democratically elected, its people are working to regain living standards they enjoyed before the 1992-95 war, and it has a single military, responsible to the state of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

We have been affected by the international financial crisis, although I am proud to say that the impact has been less in the entity that I serve as prime minister than in the rest of the country.

Every elected political leader in Bosnia and Herzegovina supports the country’s candidacy for membership in the European Union, an aspiration shared by the majority of Bosnian citizens. Although grass-roots support for NATO membership is weaker, it remains an objective for the country’s political leaders.

It should be neither surprising nor a cause for alarm that people of good will differ about the structure most appropriate for this new state. Many of us believe that a decentralized architecture is both more faithful to the Dayton Accords and more suitable for the country. We do not support the centralized model that some in the international community have sought to impose on Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Although we continue working on the institutional shape of Bosnia and Herzegovina, there is absolutely no threat of a return to violence. We look forward to the transition from “protectorate” status under the Office of the High Representative to a European Union-led mission.

The time has come for the people of Bosnia and Herzegovina and their democratically elected leaders to be given full responsibility for their future and to put aside the alarmist cries of those who would make this country a permanent dependency of the international community.

Milorad Dodik

Banja Luka, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Sept. 18, 2009

The writer is prime minister of the Republika Srpska, an entity in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

#140 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 23/09/2009 20:33
by salter071
Jeli to onaj Marcus Tanner sto se motao na press-konferencijama u ratu?
Slucajno nas ima par s ove strane ekrana koji smo imali ne-bas-cast da ga upoznamo.
Dozvoli samo da pojasnim...
Prateci njegov "rad" primjetili smo da vecina njegovih aktivnosti na terenu ne potpada pod ono sto bi zvali novinarstvom, a dio koji se objavi u medijima se sastoji od toga da pokupi imena lokalnih ljudi te im stavi rijeci u usta onako kako odgovaraju njemu, tj. interesima koji god da su, a koje on ocigledno zastupa.
Na zalost, nije to osoba kojoj se moze previse vjerovati.
A sto se tice njegove knjige to su vjerojatno deklasificirani dokumenti i prljavstine tokom rata.
Samo je pitanje zasto je ponovo izronio sa ovim temama nakon sto se usutao neko vrijeme. "Tajming" mu nije bas "koser".

#141 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 07:18
by Shoba
NYTimes

October 1, 2009
In Balkans, a Daunting Money Pit for the E.U.
By STEPHEN CASTLE

SARAJEVO — In Bosnia and Herzegovina - scene of Europe's bloodiest recent war, and an alternately wild, entrancing, and deeply divided place - the need for sharper, more focused European foreign policy could hardly be clearer.

For starters, there are the Bosnians, riven into two barely functioning administrative entities, a Bosnian Serb Republic and a Muslim-Croat Federation. If they have dreams left 14 years after war killed 100,000 people and reduced millions to refugees, those dreams center on Europe.

But, while Sarajevo is a mere hour's flight from Vienna, or Rome, the distance is hard to cover. With little progress on reforms, Bosnians were left out of a recent plan to free up visas for Balkan visitors to the European Union.

Standing outside the Austrian Embassy, Nedeljko Maric, a 42-year-old engineer, pondered the visa he finally secured to travel in Europe. It took two long visits, and a week for his papers to be processed. He feels "a second class citizen," with Bosnian membership of the E.U. "more a dream than a reality."

Whether his plight, and the vacuum of Bosnia's sour politics, eases depends in part on the outcome of the vote Friday in Ireland - another place that knows the bitter cost of sectarian strife.

If the Irish, in their second referendum on the matter, vote for the Lisbon Treaty, the E.U.'s 27 members should be able to enact the accord, which aims in part to streamline the Union's ramshackle foreign policy structures, in turn bolstering it as a global force.

In many ways, Bosnia and Herzegovina ought already to be a showcase success for European "soft power." In the years since the United States brokered the 1995 Dayton accord, the E.U. has largely taken charge here. Its special representative, Valentin Inzko, doubles as the international community's high representative, and has wide powers to overrule feuding local politicians.

Yet analysts fear that nationalist tensions are so strong, and European officials so unable to deliver progress for the hundreds of millions of euros poured in here, that violence could surge anew.

"We are now in a dangerous dynamic," said Paddy Ashdown, former high representative, "and if we fail to operate in a cohesive fashion we could end up with the de facto disintegration of Bosnia- Herzegovina."

In principle, the E.U. has a wealth of tools to shape Bosnia's future: a 2,000-strong military force, a police mission, a special representative, huge investment and leverage on local politicians who aspire to join the bloc.

In practice, Bosnia and Herzegovina illustrates Europe's shortcomings.

In Sarajevo, the E.U. has four missions at separate offices. Its officials hold coordination meetings most weekdays with each other, staff from the 20 embassies of individual E.U. nations in Sarajevo, and/or from international bodies.

Few can envy Stefan Feller, head of the E.U.'s police mission, whose job is to improve law enforcement in a country of less than 4 million people with 15 police agencies. As for his own side, Mr. Feller routinely attends three meetings a week liaising with E.U. and international colleagues and reports back to two different bureaucracies in separate buildings in Brussels. Though his mission was set up by one arm of the sprawling European bureaucracy, some of his funding comes from another.

The Lisbon Treaty would combine these foreign policy jobs, something Mr. Feller would welcome. "Power and money go together," he noted drily.

Mr. Ashdown also believes this melding is long overdue. "The reality," he said in a telephone interview, "is that the E.U. institutions, and mechanisms for the execution of foreign policy in their present form, are a disaster."

"The E.U.," he added, "puts into Bosnia at least twice as much money as any other country, including the U.S., but if people want to get things done they go to the U.S. Embassy. That's because the U.S. speaks with a single voice and could get things done without taking 18 months. Bosnia is dysfunctional, but not as dysfunctional as Brussels."

Many Bosnians feel the same. From the 34th floor of his newspaper's shiny, twisty tower, Saed Numanovic, editor in chief of Dnevni Avaz, has a view of the hills from which the city was once shelled by Bosnian Serb guns. "You cannot find a place in the world," he said, "where the E.U. had such a bad performance - such poor results - from such a lot of money."

The European Commission spent €75 million, about $110 million, last year here in grants; loans from other European institutions usually amount to another €100 million a year.

The E.U., said Kurt Bassuener, senior associate at the Democratization Policy Council, a U.S.-based research and advocacy group, is seen as "a desirable address and a deep pockets donor - it throws money at problems - rather than a serious political actor."

Brussels can exert huge leverage in countries that want to join the E.U., but not here. "The politicians believe that the E.U. wants them really bad, and will fudge its own criteria to bring them in," Mr. Bassuener said. He cited as an example of E.U. weakness its acceptance of what he called a neutered reform of local police, while agreeing to pursue a formal accord on closer ties.

That serves local politicians who love to cite alleged progress toward joining Europe while playing to distinct ethnic groups with no interest in compromise.

When that leads to paralysis, and Mr. Inzko is forced to overrule them, they hide behind him - which has left the international community with an imminent, unpalatable decision on whether to scrap Mr. Inzko's wide powers.

Even supporters of the Lisbon Treaty admit that it would not solve the E.U.'s problems here. But it would streamline foreign policy in Brussels; in Sarajevo, that could combine the job held by Mr. Inzko with that of the head of the European Commission's delegation, Dimitris Kourkoulas. More importantly, it would end a veto from France and Germany on further E.U. expansion until the Lisbon Treaty is passed.

"The Lisbon Treaty would definitely make a difference here," said Mr. Inzko. "It would be a strong ray of hope that the enlargement process is going on and that the E.U. has found the mechanisms it needs to deal with problems, that it is speaking with one voice, and that it can offer a strengthened perspective."

Mr. Ashdown fears that Europe, which failed the Balkans in the 1990s, risks doing so again, and could destroy its credibility as a foreign policy player.

"If the E.U., which has, in Bosnia, all its instruments of foreign policy - including a police mission and a military mission - if it can't get things done there, what hope is there?" he asked. "It is simply pathetic if we have to rely on the U.S. in our own backyard."

#142 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 07:48
by muha_sa
neka ba Shoba :D ima nas koji bi ovo procitali al ne umijemo stranjski :D

#143 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 10:17
by Bosnolog
Shoba wrote:NYTimes

October 1, 2009
In Balkans, a Daunting Money Pit for the E.U.
By STEPHEN CASTLE

SARAJEVO — In Bosnia and Herzegovina - scene of Europe's bloodiest recent war, and an alternately wild, entrancing, and deeply divided place - the need for sharper, more focused European foreign policy could hardly be clearer.

For starters, there are the Bosnians, riven into two barely functioning administrative entities, a Bosnian Serb Republic and a Muslim-Croat Federation. If they have dreams left 14 years after war killed 100,000 people and reduced millions to refugees, those dreams center on Europe.

But, while Sarajevo is a mere hour's flight from Vienna, or Rome, the distance is hard to cover. With little progress on reforms, Bosnians were left out of a recent plan to free up visas for Balkan visitors to the European Union.

Standing outside the Austrian Embassy, Nedeljko Maric, a 42-year-old engineer, pondered the visa he finally secured to travel in Europe. It took two long visits, and a week for his papers to be processed. He feels "a second class citizen," with Bosnian membership of the E.U. "more a dream than a reality."

Whether his plight, and the vacuum of Bosnia's sour politics, eases depends in part on the outcome of the vote Friday in Ireland - another place that knows the bitter cost of sectarian strife.

If the Irish, in their second referendum on the matter, vote for the Lisbon Treaty, the E.U.'s 27 members should be able to enact the accord, which aims in part to streamline the Union's ramshackle foreign policy structures, in turn bolstering it as a global force.

In many ways, Bosnia and Herzegovina ought already to be a showcase success for European "soft power." In the years since the United States brokered the 1995 Dayton accord, the E.U. has largely taken charge here. Its special representative, Valentin Inzko, doubles as the international community's high representative, and has wide powers to overrule feuding local politicians.

Yet analysts fear that nationalist tensions are so strong, and European officials so unable to deliver progress for the hundreds of millions of euros poured in here, that violence could surge anew.

"We are now in a dangerous dynamic," said Paddy Ashdown, former high representative, "and if we fail to operate in a cohesive fashion we could end up with the de facto disintegration of Bosnia- Herzegovina."

In principle, the E.U. has a wealth of tools to shape Bosnia's future: a 2,000-strong military force, a police mission, a special representative, huge investment and leverage on local politicians who aspire to join the bloc.

In practice, Bosnia and Herzegovina illustrates Europe's shortcomings.

In Sarajevo, the E.U. has four missions at separate offices. Its officials hold coordination meetings most weekdays with each other, staff from the 20 embassies of individual E.U. nations in Sarajevo, and/or from international bodies.

Few can envy Stefan Feller, head of the E.U.'s police mission, whose job is to improve law enforcement in a country of less than 4 million people with 15 police agencies. As for his own side, Mr. Feller routinely attends three meetings a week liaising with E.U. and international colleagues and reports back to two different bureaucracies in separate buildings in Brussels. Though his mission was set up by one arm of the sprawling European bureaucracy, some of his funding comes from another.

The Lisbon Treaty would combine these foreign policy jobs, something Mr. Feller would welcome. "Power and money go together," he noted drily.

Mr. Ashdown also believes this melding is long overdue. "The reality," he said in a telephone interview, "is that the E.U. institutions, and mechanisms for the execution of foreign policy in their present form, are a disaster."

"The E.U.," he added, "puts into Bosnia at least twice as much money as any other country, including the U.S., but if people want to get things done they go to the U.S. Embassy. That's because the U.S. speaks with a single voice and could get things done without taking 18 months. Bosnia is dysfunctional, but not as dysfunctional as Brussels."

Many Bosnians feel the same. From the 34th floor of his newspaper's shiny, twisty tower, Saed Numanovic, editor in chief of Dnevni Avaz, has a view of the hills from which the city was once shelled by Bosnian Serb guns. "You cannot find a place in the world," he said, "where the E.U. had such a bad performance - such poor results - from such a lot of money."

The European Commission spent €75 million, about $110 million, last year here in grants; loans from other European institutions usually amount to another €100 million a year.

The E.U., said Kurt Bassuener, senior associate at the Democratization Policy Council, a U.S.-based research and advocacy group, is seen as "a desirable address and a deep pockets donor - it throws money at problems - rather than a serious political actor."

Brussels can exert huge leverage in countries that want to join the E.U., but not here. "The politicians believe that the E.U. wants them really bad, and will fudge its own criteria to bring them in," Mr. Bassuener said. He cited as an example of E.U. weakness its acceptance of what he called a neutered reform of local police, while agreeing to pursue a formal accord on closer ties.

That serves local politicians who love to cite alleged progress toward joining Europe while playing to distinct ethnic groups with no interest in compromise.

When that leads to paralysis, and Mr. Inzko is forced to overrule them, they hide behind him - which has left the international community with an imminent, unpalatable decision on whether to scrap Mr. Inzko's wide powers.

Even supporters of the Lisbon Treaty admit that it would not solve the E.U.'s problems here. But it would streamline foreign policy in Brussels; in Sarajevo, that could combine the job held by Mr. Inzko with that of the head of the European Commission's delegation, Dimitris Kourkoulas. More importantly, it would end a veto from France and Germany on further E.U. expansion until the Lisbon Treaty is passed.

"The Lisbon Treaty would definitely make a difference here," said Mr. Inzko. "It would be a strong ray of hope that the enlargement process is going on and that the E.U. has found the mechanisms it needs to deal with problems, that it is speaking with one voice, and that it can offer a strengthened perspective."

Mr. Ashdown fears that Europe, which failed the Balkans in the 1990s, risks doing so again, and could destroy its credibility as a foreign policy player.

"If the E.U., which has, in Bosnia, all its instruments of foreign policy - including a police mission and a military mission - if it can't get things done there, what hope is there?" he asked. "It is simply pathetic if we have to rely on the U.S. in our own backyard."

NIsta novo od Njujork Tajmsa ,samo konstatacije o hebenoj,kilavoja i razjedinjenoj Evropi sampionu ljigavluka,cinizma i suplje.Evropa samo potvrdije da je bez USA jedno veliko nista.Amerika jedina ima kapacitet promjeniti ili nametnti rijesenje a sto ce i biti na kraju kada se Evropa razgoli do kraja i osramoti kao mnogo puta do sada.

Amerika ce uletjeti da pospremi Balkan i dovrsi svoju misiju a nakon toga nadgledati sve one koje je zaduzila kako izvrsaaju svoje zadace.

Pady je bo najbolji i jedini VP koji je imao gard i znao kako da radi taj posao a za vrijeme njegove supervizije su se desile najvece promjene ka jacanju BH drzave.Svi ostal mu nisu ni do koljena.Isti danas najbolje upozorava na ozbljnist siuacije u BiH prje nego izmakne kontroli.

#144 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 10:54
by 1gorstak
Shoba wrote:The E.U.," he added, "puts into Bosnia at least twice as much money as any other country, including the U.S., but if people want to get things done they go to the U.S. Embassy. That's because the U.S. speaks with a single voice and could get things done without taking 18 months. Bosnia is dysfunctional, but not as dysfunctional as Brussels
Sto ce reci, sami smo i ne mozemo racunati na pomoc iz Brisela ako se velikosrpski faktor odluci blokirati drzavu. Ako Dodik u manjem entitetu sprijeci djelovanje SIPA-a, OBA-e, Oruzanih Snaga, Granicne policije ili Uprave za indirektno oporezivanje ....

1. Visoki predstavnik ce to ostro osuditi i pozvati "strane" na dijalog. Reci ce da ocekuje puno od narednog sastanka politicara iz oba entiteta i da im stoji na raspolaganju kako bi se sto prije izaslo iz novonastale krize.
2. EUFOR nece djelovati bez zelenog svjetla iz Brisela, a u Briselu ce se prvo morati sastati relevantna podkomisija, imenovana od strane odbora koji podnosi izvjestaj nadleznom savjetu u kojem svaka od drzava clanica ima pravo veta.
3. SAD ce povuci konkretne poteze ali samo kako bi se izbjeglo sukob sirih razmjera. Da bi se uvjerilo SAD da je sukob sirih razmjera moguc, morace se djelovati na terenu, sto nas dovodi do ...
4. Sluzbeno Sarajevo mora djelovati u skladu sa zakonom i obezbjediti nesmetano djelovanje drzavnih organa na tlu citave drzave. Nadleznost SIPA-e u okviru bosanskohercegovacke teritorije nije stvar dobre volje entiteta i kantona nego zakonom definisana materija, tuzilastvo bi u tom slucaju trebalo podici optuznicu protiv onih lica koja ometaju djelovanje drzavnih organa, a SIPA ih nakon toga treba (pokusati) lisiti slobode. Sukob je u tom slucaju neizbjezan, a tek se tada moze ocekivati reakcija SAD-a, koje bi zatim prisilile Visokog predstavnika i EU cinovnike da prestanu s onanisanjem i silom EUFOR-a obezbjede funkcionisanje drzavnih agencija na tlu citave drzave.

Ako sluzbeno Sarajevo izda, SAD se nemaju zbog cega mjesati jer se oni nece boriti umjesto nas. Oni pomazu BiH, ali ako nema spremnosti da se BiH brani iznutra, niko je izvana nece sacuvati. EUFOR ce se u tom slucaju nastaviti igrati gluhih telefona sa centralom u Briselu, a Visoki predstavnik ce preostala dva mjeseca u BiH provesti stvarajuci email korespodenciju s univerzitetima u svijetu na kojim bi mogao s vremena na vrijeme odrzati predavanje o ulozi medjunarodne zajednice u BiH, drzavi koju se (znao je on) nije moglo sacuvati.

#145 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 13:40
by muha_sa
Bosnolog wrote:

NIsta novo od Njujork Tajmsa ,samo konstatacije o hebenoj,kilavoja i razjedinjenoj Evropi sampionu ljigavluka,cinizma i suplje.Evropa samo potvrdije da je bez USA jedno veliko nista.Amerika jedina ima kapacitet promjeniti ili nametnti rijesenje a sto ce i biti na kraju kada se Evropa razgoli do kraja i osramoti kao mnogo puta do sada.

Amerika ce uletjeti da pospremi Balkan i dovrsi svoju misiju a nakon toga nadgledati sve one koje je zaduzila kako izvrsaaju svoje zadace.

Pady je bo najbolji i jedini VP koji je imao gard i znao kako da radi taj posao a za vrijeme njegove supervizije su se desile najvece promjene ka jacanju BH drzave.Svi ostal mu nisu ni do koljena.Isti danas najbolje upozorava na ozbljnist siuacije u BiH prje nego izmakne kontroli.
hvala Bosnolog :)
vec 17.godina živimo i na svojoj koži kurvaluk stare dame osjecamo.
Njujork Tajms samo konstatovo da je tako kako je :D

#146 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 15:19
by Shoba
najveci kocnicar Evrope je Anglo-Americko sabotiranje. Ujedinjena i funkcionalna evropa smeta englezima (a samim tim amerikancima koji pusu u iste jasle). Svo vrijeme se zele staviti do znanja kako evropa ne zna nista da rijesi, da je potreban upliv sa strane. Taj upliv s nikad ne desi, on je samo tu da pravi konfuziju. Francuzi i Nijemci bi od evrope napravili konkretnu drzavu po uzoru na USA, ali englezima to ne odgovara. (Zavadi pa vladaj.)

Amerikanci nisu nikad hjeli da Bosnu izvuku iz govana, vec su po dogovoru sa englezima ostaviili ranu da krvari. Da su htjeli, vec bi sve davno bilo gotovo, kao sa Kosovom (koje je platilo nezavisnost parama). BiH treba da ostane simbol nefunkcionalnosti EU. Zato je sve ovako sjebano i dalje ce biti. :roll:

#147 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 18:49
by MFToonyo
Shoba wrote:najveci kocnicar Evrope je Anglo-Americko sabotiranje. Ujedinjena i funkcionalna evropa smeta englezima (a samim tim amerikancima koji pusu u iste jasle). Svo vrijeme se zele staviti do znanja kako evropa ne zna nista da rijesi, da je potreban upliv sa strane. Taj upliv s nikad ne desi, on je samo tu da pravi konfuziju. Francuzi i Nijemci bi od evrope napravili konkretnu drzavu po uzoru na USA, ali englezima to ne odgovara. (Zavadi pa vladaj.)

Amerikanci nisu nikad hjeli da Bosnu izvuku iz govana, vec su po dogovoru sa englezima ostaviili ranu da krvari. Da su htjeli, vec bi sve davno bilo gotovo, kao sa Kosovom (koje je platilo nezavisnost parama). BiH treba da ostane simbol nefunkcionalnosti EU. Zato je sve ovako sjebano i dalje ce biti. :roll:
bravo, to je tako.

utoliko su veci jadovi ovi koji zagovaraju veci angazman amerike za navodnu dobrobit bosne. ne kontaju, jadni, sutinu.

#148 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 01/10/2009 20:04
by BaileyS
Pa najbolje da nam Srbija uredjuje drzavu.....posto je USA nedobronamjerna :D Nisam zaljubljenik u americku politiku ali kad pogledam alternativu kazem fala bogu da ih ima.


Sve i da zaboravimo odnos Evrope spram BiH i skoncentrisemo se samo na njihove unutrasnje politicke procese dovoljno je da kazemo daleko im kuca bila. Desnica jaca u svim zemljama Evrope, kako onim zapadnim tako i istocnim i hvala bogu da ima USA za ne daj boze. Desetine mini Hitlera iz godine u godinu sve su uticajniji i bitniji na evropskoj politickoj sceni. Cini mi se da je to nezaustavljiv trend.

#149 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 02/10/2009 09:15
by MFToonyo
BaileyS wrote:Pa najbolje da nam Srbija uredjuje drzavu.....posto je USA nedobronamjerna :D Nisam zaljubljenik u americku politiku ali kad pogledam alternativu kazem fala bogu da ih ima.


Sve i da zaboravimo odnos Evrope spram BiH i skoncentrisemo se samo na njihove unutrasnje politicke procese dovoljno je da kazemo daleko im kuca bila. Desnica jaca u svim zemljama Evrope, kako onim zapadnim tako i istocnim i hvala bogu da ima USA za ne daj boze. Desetine mini Hitlera iz godine u godinu sve su uticajniji i bitniji na evropskoj politickoj sceni. Cini mi se da je to nezaustavljiv trend.
pa i srbija bi imala bolju politiku.

#150 Re: Bosna u stranim medijima

Posted: 02/10/2009 11:20
by Bourne
Evropska unija nesposobna, Amerika preuzima posao u BiH
02.10.2009.

Evropski zvaničnici nisu sposobni donijeti napredak stotinama miliona uloženih eura, nacionalističke tenzije u BiH su jake i sve je više straha da bi nasilje u BiH ponovo moglo buknuti, piše jučerašnji "New York Times".

Iako je Sarajevo tek nekoliko sati leta od Beča ili Rima, tu udaljenost je teško preći. Zbog malog napretka u procesu reformi, građani BiH su izostavljeni iz nedavnog plana bezvisnog režima za građane Balkana. Ovako počinje tekst u jučerašnjem "New York Timesu" pod naslovom "BiH je nefunkcionalna, ali ne kao Brisel".

Ugledni Američki list pozabavio se aktuelnom krizom u BiH koja dostiže vrhunac i ozbiljno prijeti nasiljem i raspadom naše države. Zaključak "New York Timesa" je nedvosmislen: "Na različite načine, Bosna i Hercegovina već je trebala biti pokazatelj uspjeha evropske "meke snage". Nakon što su Sjedinjene Američke Države postigle potpisivanje Dejtonskog sporazuma, Evropska unija je preuzela većinu nadležnosti nad BiH. Njen specijalni predstavnik Valentin Inzko ima široke ovlasti da nadjača feudalne lokalne političare. Dok evropski zvaničnici nisu sposobni donijeti napredak stotinama miliona uloženih eura, analitičari se boje da su nacionalističke tenzije u BiH jake i da bi nasilje ponovo moglo buknuti", piše "New York Times".

Prekjučer je kongresmen sa Floride Elis Hastings, govoreći o BiH, otvoreno kazao: "Ja tamošnju situaciju vidim kao bure baruta koje čeka da ekslodira. Svakako da se nikako pod slučajnost ne može podvesti to što se jučerašnji "New York Times" bavi Bosnom i Hercegovinom. Američki senator Bendžamin Kardin prije dva dana je kazao da je adiministracija predsjednika Baracka Obame odmah shvatila da situacija na Balkanu, posebno u BiH, nije sređena i to je dovelo do posjete potpredsjednika SAD-a Josefa Bidena Sarajevu, Beogradu i Prištini. Međutim, i nakon te posjete BiH se nije pokrenula. - BiH vapi za dobrim liderstvom kojeg u ovom trenutku ne vidimo. Centralne institucije vlasti BiH treba biti djelotvorne i ne bi se trebali poduzimati nikakvi koraci kojima bi se nagrađivali nacionalisti...

"Trebamo nastaviti sarađivati sa Evropom, ali je pitanje da li Evropa dijeli taj osjećaj hitnosti", kaže senator Kardin. Sve ukazuje da se dolazi do definitivnog zaključka da Evropska unija nije sposobna da riješi probleme u BiH i da će taj posao preuzeti zvanični Washington. Uostalom, Američki državni tajnik Hillary Clinton to je na izvjestan način najavila kada je prezela tu funkciju kazavši da Amerika nije završila započeti posao u BiH i da će to svakako uraditi. Činjenica je da Amerika sve više gubi strpljenje, a EU se prilično ležerno ponaša prema krizi u BiH što samo ohrabruje BH. političare koji je potpiruju. Izvori lista San kažu da je američka administracija itekako razočarana ne samo Miloradom Dodikom nego i Sulejmanom Tihićem i Draganom Čovićem od kojih je puno više očekivala. Sve trojica su u različitim fazama svog rada imali izvjesni stepen američke podrške i ona se sada, sa razlogom, istopila.

"U principu, Evropska unija ima dovoljno instrumenata da oblikuje bosansku budućnost: 2.000 vojnika, policijsku misiju, specijalnog predstavnika, velike investicije i uticaj na lokalne političare. Međutim, u praksi BiH ilustruje evropske mane. U Sarajevu EU ima četiri misije smještene u različitim uredima. Njeni zvaničnici imaju sastanke tokom radnih dana nakon čega izvještaje šalju u dvije različite birokratcije u različitim zgradama u Briselu. Paddy Eshdaun, bivši visoki predstavnik, kaže da je EU u BiH uložila dva puta više novca nego bilo koja druga zemlja, uključujući i SAD, ali ljudi u BiH, ako žele nešto da završe, odlaze u američku Ambasadu, a razlog tome je jedinstven stav Amerike kojoj nije potrebno 18 mjeseci da nešto uradi. Jednostavno BiH je nefunkcionalna, ali ne toliko kao Brisel", piše jučerašnji "New York Times" i podvlači:

"Evropska komisija je prošle godine potrošila 75 miliona eura i 110 miliona dolara u grantovima. Posudbe od drugih evropskih institucija godišnje iznose dodatnih 100 miliona eura. Čak i oni koji podržavaju Lisabonski ugovor tvrde da on ne bi riješio probleme u BiH, ali bi u istom pravcu usmjerio vanjsku politiku Brisela koja bi kombinovala Inzkov posao sa onim šefa Delegacije Evropske komisije Dimitrisa Kourkulasa. Još važnije, uknuo bi veto Francuske i Njemačke na dalje proširenje EU sve dok Lisabonski sporazum ne prođe. List citira i aktuelnog visokog predstavnika Valentina Inzka koji kaže: "Lisabonski ugovor napraio bi ovdje razliku. Bio bi velika zraka nade da će se proširenje nastaviti i da je Evropska unija našla mehanizme da se nosi sa problemima, da govori jednim jezikom i da može ponuditi bolju perspektivu. "Nakon greški koje je na Balkanu napravila 90-tih godina, Evropa rizikuje da ponovi istu stvar čime bi uništila kredibilitet uticajnog igrača na polju vanjske politike", zaključuje "New York Times". "Amerika planira povećati svoju angažiranost. Dejton je poslužio BiH neposredno poslije rata i struktura od dva entiteta će morati ostati u bližoj budućnosti. Jasno je, međutim, da Dejtonski sporazum treba modernizirati kako bi BiH krenula naprijed i konačno ispunila uvjete za prijem u NATI i EU. Smatramo da bi proces reformi trebao odmah započeti s ciljem postizanja umjerenog početnog reformskog paketa dobro prije izbora u oktobru 2010.", kazao je Stjuart Džons, pomoćnik američkog državnog sekretara Hilyrry Clinton, zaduženog za Evropu i Euroaziju.