AMERIKA

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jeza u ledja
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#11701 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

JohnnyS wrote: 12/07/2024 15:24
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:19
JohnnyS wrote: 12/07/2024 15:15

To nitko ne može bez viska znati hoće li fetus preživjeti ili ne s 25 tjedana (premda je u toj dobi funkcionalan život dobitak na lotu) pa opet mnoge države dozvoljavaju pobačaj do 27.tjedna (dakle do početka sedmog mjeseca trudnoće), a u par država SADa nema vremenskog ograničenja za izvođenje pobačaja, a jedna od tih država je ako se ne varam Aljaska.


https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion ... -in-alaska
Kako mislis niko ne moze? Moze. Nije u pitanju gatanje, vec biologija.

Sad koja je sedmica u pitanju to je od drzave do drzave (ili zemlje). Mozda se doktori ne slazu jel 23, 25 ili 27 sedmica, ali sigurno nece sa 16 ili tako nesto.
Pa ne prežive sve bebe/fetusi porod s 25 tjedana. Ne preživi ih dosta ni s 27, a i dobrom dijelu rođenih u 30.tjednu treba značajna postporođajna skrb i liječenje.

To nije baš egzaktna znanost pa da se svaki fetus/beba u određenoj sekundi trudnoće postane viable.

Zato kažem, kad već postoji pobačaj, najpoštenije je kao u tih par država, dozvoljen je dok ne krene porod i gotovo, osoba se postaje tek rođenjem, a prije toga nema nikakvih prava, samo ženino tijelo, ženin izbor.
Ali sa 16, 18 ili 22 nece sigurno prezivjeti. Nisu ti zakoni crno-bijeli. Ono tipa do 24 moze sta god, a od 24 dozivotna robija. Vecina ljudi ce se sloziti da ako fetus ne moze ama bas nikako prezivjeti onda abortus treba biti dozvoljen (postoje o tome ankete). Nakon toga misljenja se razilaze.
Ja vise naginjem tvom. No to da li je egzaktna nauka ili ne, je, kako bih rekao, misleading komentar. Postoji siva zona. No postoji zona i gdje je sve jasno. Ta zona moze biti osnovica za bilo kakav zakon.
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ultima_palabra
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#11702 Re: AMERIKA

Post by ultima_palabra »

JohnnyS wrote: 12/07/2024 15:26
ultima_palabra wrote: 12/07/2024 15:23 Ma to treba da je potpuno u medicinskom domenu, ogranicenja treba da postavi struka a ne politika.

I zanimljivo kako se desnicari u Evropi uopste ne loze na to pitanje, nisam nigdje vidio da kandidati AfD ili RN pricaju o tome.
Naprotiv, pitanje pobačaja je političko, a ne stručno pitanje. Većina ginekologa koje znam ili s kojima sam u kontaktu, rade ih što moraju, a ne što žele.
Pa nikom nije drago to da radi, to je sigurno. Zato treba biti neka granica da se doktor ne dovodi u situaciju da bude mesar bez prije potrebe.
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jeza u ledja
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#11703 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

breuer wrote: 12/07/2024 15:27
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:24Danas i juce ankete, Biden ili vodi ili je nerjeseno. Kazaljka se jedva pomjerila i nakon katastrofalno lose debate.

Ljudi bi glasali i za mrtvaca prije nego Trumpa, i obratno.
najiskrenije se nadam ovome...
Prosjek anketa se pomjetio sa cirka 0.8% prednosti Trumpa na cirka 2.8%.
breuer
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#11704 Re: AMERIKA

Post by breuer »

jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:35
breuer wrote: 12/07/2024 15:27
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:24Danas i juce ankete, Biden ili vodi ili je nerjeseno. Kazaljka se jedva pomjerila i nakon katastrofalno lose debate.

Ljudi bi glasali i za mrtvaca prije nego Trumpa, i obratno.
najiskrenije se nadam ovome...
Prosjek anketa se pomjetio sa cirka 0.8% prednosti Trumpa na cirka 2.8%.
pa ne kontam sad, čije su šanse veće i u čiju korist se mijenjaju te projekcije?

ne treba nam Grenel i raznorazni 'greneli' nikako...
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JohnnyS
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#11705 Re: AMERIKA

Post by JohnnyS »

ultima_palabra wrote: 12/07/2024 15:33
JohnnyS wrote: 12/07/2024 15:26
ultima_palabra wrote: 12/07/2024 15:23 Ma to treba da je potpuno u medicinskom domenu, ogranicenja treba da postavi struka a ne politika.

I zanimljivo kako se desnicari u Evropi uopste ne loze na to pitanje, nisam nigdje vidio da kandidati AfD ili RN pricaju o tome.
Naprotiv, pitanje pobačaja je političko, a ne stručno pitanje. Većina ginekologa koje znam ili s kojima sam u kontaktu, rade ih što moraju, a ne što žele.
Pa nikom nije drago to da radi, to je sigurno. Zato treba biti neka granica da se doktor ne dovodi u situaciju da bude mesar bez prije potrebe.

A vezano uz tvoj prvi post, treba razlikovati desnicu u istočnoj i zapadnoj Europi. Ta zapadna desnica se nekako više naslonila na priču o standardu, migranti kradu posao domaćim, ruše cijenu rada, pljačkaju i ubijaju, Brisel radi zamijenu stanovništva i slična tematika. Ali zato je istočnoeuropska desnica na tragu MAGA-e po pitanju abortusa, evo uzmi Poljsku, Hrvatsku, Mađarsku. Tu je pitanje obitelji na prvom mjestu, kršćanski identitet, zaštita života od začeća, gayevi, brak, ovo ono.

Zajednička im je mržnja prema EU i briselskim birokratima, što nije teško razumjeti, evo me deset dana u Hrvatskoj i muka mi je od kartonskih slamki koje dolaze u plastičnim kesicama
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jeza u ledja
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#11706 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

breuer wrote: 12/07/2024 15:38
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:35
breuer wrote: 12/07/2024 15:27

najiskrenije se nadam ovome...
Prosjek anketa se pomjetio sa cirka 0.8% prednosti Trumpa na cirka 2.8%.
pa ne kontam sad, čije su šanse veće i u čiju korist se mijenjaju te projekcije?

ne treba nam Grenel i raznorazni 'greneli' nikako...
Trumpove su sanse vece, a nakon debate su se jos malo povecale.
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geralt
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#11707 Re: AMERIKA

Post by geralt »

jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:24
Naslovnica wrote: 12/07/2024 15:19 Ne kontam nešto...već dugo vremena se govori o Bajdenovom loše mentalnom i fizičkom stanju.
Otkud to da su najednom ljudi koji podržavaju i glasaju za Bajdena i politiku koju predvodi okrenuli ploču vezano za njegovo stanje. Da li nisu vidjeli ono što su svi vidjeli, ili su vidjeli ali su lagali sami sebe?!
Ne kontam, pa Bajden je vidno narušenog mentalnog i fizičkog zdravlja već godinama, to je svako o objektivan mogao da vidi.
Ama ocigledno su mu spremili “atentat” iznutra. Zato su i napravili debatu ovako rano. Politicke igre unutar stranke.
Nepobitno je senilan i star, ali bio je i prije 6 mjeseci, a i godinama. Da su napravili standardan narativ poslije debate, raja bi samo vikala jes jes. Ovako samo otkidaju bodove.

Danas i juce ankete, Biden ili vodi ili je nerjeseno. Kazaljka se jedva pomjerila i nakon katastrofalno lose debate.

Ljudi bi glasali i za mrtvaca prije nego Trumpa, i obratno.
Ne glasa se samo za predsjednika u novembru. Imas veliki broj demokratskih senatora, kongresmena, guvernera, gradonacelnika, parlamentaraca u saveznim drzavama, vijecnika u gradovima... koje ce dobar rezultat na predsjednickim izborima ostaviti na funkciji, a los ukopati. Cak bi i tanka Bajdenova pobjeda bila losa za mnoge od njih. Na prvom mjestu im je svoja guzica a ne Bajdenova.

Demokratskoj partiji kao cjelini nije u interesu da im predizborno lice partije pred glasacima bude mrtvac.
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jeza u ledja
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#11708 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 15:45
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:24
Naslovnica wrote: 12/07/2024 15:19 Ne kontam nešto...već dugo vremena se govori o Bajdenovom loše mentalnom i fizičkom stanju.
Otkud to da su najednom ljudi koji podržavaju i glasaju za Bajdena i politiku koju predvodi okrenuli ploču vezano za njegovo stanje. Da li nisu vidjeli ono što su svi vidjeli, ili su vidjeli ali su lagali sami sebe?!
Ne kontam, pa Bajden je vidno narušenog mentalnog i fizičkog zdravlja već godinama, to je svako o objektivan mogao da vidi.
Ama ocigledno su mu spremili “atentat” iznutra. Zato su i napravili debatu ovako rano. Politicke igre unutar stranke.
Nepobitno je senilan i star, ali bio je i prije 6 mjeseci, a i godinama. Da su napravili standardan narativ poslije debate, raja bi samo vikala jes jes. Ovako samo otkidaju bodove.

Danas i juce ankete, Biden ili vodi ili je nerjeseno. Kazaljka se jedva pomjerila i nakon katastrofalno lose debate.

Ljudi bi glasali i za mrtvaca prije nego Trumpa, i obratno.
Ne glasa se samo za predsjednika u novembru. Imas veliki broj demokratskih senatora, kongresmena, guvernera, gradonacelnika, parlamentaraca u saveznim drzavama, vijecnika u gradovima... koje ce dobar rezultat na predsjednickim izborima ostaviti na funkciji, a los ukopati. Cak bi i tanka Bajdenova pobjeda bila losa za mnoge od njih. Na prvom mjestu im je svoja guzica a ne Bajdenova.

Demokratskoj partiji kao cjelini nije u interesu da im predizborno lice partije pred glasacima bude mrtvac.
Pa se zato svojski trude da ga naprave jos vecim mrtvacem i sebi jos vise umanje sanse?

Prije bih rekao da bjeze sa broda koji tone da bi poslije bilo i told you so.
Last edited by jeza u ledja on 12/07/2024 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
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dale cooper
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#11709 Re: AMERIKA

Post by dale cooper »

Mislim da su Bidenove šanse nakon one debate minimalne. Gafovi se nastavljaju, a slijede i nove debate gdje Biden ne može biti bitno bolji,
a velike su šanse da bude i gori.
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geralt
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#11710 Re: AMERIKA

Post by geralt »

jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:48
geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 15:45
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:24

Ama ocigledno su mu spremili “atentat” iznutra. Zato su i napravili debatu ovako rano. Politicke igre unutar stranke.
Nepobitno je senilan i star, ali bio je i prije 6 mjeseci, a i godinama. Da su napravili standardan narativ poslije debate, raja bi samo vikala jes jes. Ovako samo otkidaju bodove.

Danas i juce ankete, Biden ili vodi ili je nerjeseno. Kazaljka se jedva pomjerila i nakon katastrofalno lose debate.

Ljudi bi glasali i za mrtvaca prije nego Trumpa, i obratno.
Ne glasa se samo za predsjednika u novembru. Imas veliki broj demokratskih senatora, kongresmena, guvernera, gradonacelnika, parlamentaraca u saveznim drzavama, vijecnika u gradovima... koje ce dobar rezultat na predsjednickim izborima ostaviti na funkciji, a los ukopati. Cak bi i tanka Bajdenova pobjeda bila losa za mnoge od njih. Na prvom mjestu im je svoja guzica a ne Bajdenova.

Demokratskoj partiji kao cjelini nije u interesu da im predizborno lice partije pred glasacima bude mrtvac.
Pa se zato svojski trude da ga naprave jos vecim mrtvacem i sebi jos vise umanje sanse?
Ako smatraju da su sanse da pobijedi nula posto, a mnogi ocigledno smatraju, onda nemaju sta da izgube.
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jeza u ledja
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#11711 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 15:49
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:48
geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 15:45
Ne glasa se samo za predsjednika u novembru. Imas veliki broj demokratskih senatora, kongresmena, guvernera, gradonacelnika, parlamentaraca u saveznim drzavama, vijecnika u gradovima... koje ce dobar rezultat na predsjednickim izborima ostaviti na funkciji, a los ukopati. Cak bi i tanka Bajdenova pobjeda bila losa za mnoge od njih. Na prvom mjestu im je svoja guzica a ne Bajdenova.

Demokratskoj partiji kao cjelini nije u interesu da im predizborno lice partije pred glasacima bude mrtvac.
Pa se zato svojski trude da ga naprave jos vecim mrtvacem i sebi jos vise umanje sanse?
Ako smatraju da su sanse da pobijedi nula posto, a mnogi ocigledno smatraju, onda nemaju sta da izgube.
Niko to ne smatra.
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geralt
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#11712 Re: AMERIKA

Post by geralt »

jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 16:01
geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 15:49
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 15:48

Pa se zato svojski trude da ga naprave jos vecim mrtvacem i sebi jos vise umanje sanse?
Ako smatraju da su sanse da pobijedi nula posto, a mnogi ocigledno smatraju, onda nemaju sta da izgube.
Niko to ne smatra.
Imas bezbroj anonimnih demokrata koji upravo to izjavljuju za medije u zadnjim danima. Govorimo o ljudima koji imaju pristup informacijama sa terena koje mi nemamo.

Stvorena je iluzija da glasaci imaju izbor samo da glasaju za Bidena, ili da glasaju za Trumpa, i to je to. U stvarnosti oni mogu izabrati i da glasaju za RFK-a, ili da glasaju za Paju Patka, ili da ubace prazan listic. A najgori izbor koji mogu napraviti (po demokrate i njihove kandidate) je da ostanu kuci jer nemaju entuzijazma. Jer Trumpovi glasaci nece ostati kuci.
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JohnnyS
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#11713 Re: AMERIKA

Post by JohnnyS »

Meni samo nije jasna Bidenova familija, kako njima nije žao čovjeka kojeg ismijavaju milijuni ljudi (jest da su mahom idioti, ali svejedno) i čije se mentalno propadanje pretvara u najgledaniji reality show na svijetu. Pa mogu li mu oni reći makni se čovječe, jebote i Trump i Kamila i izbori.

U nas familije nagovore ovakvu starčad na operaciju od koje se nikad neće oporaviti za pet minuta, a oni da njega ne odogovore od kandidature koja je neizvjesnog ishoda, a može mu itekako narušiti i imidž i ukupni legacy
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ultima_palabra
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#11714 Re: AMERIKA

Post by ultima_palabra »

Koliko ja vidim, Biden je po nekoliko procenata iza D kandidata za Senat u swing drzavama. Eh sad imaju interni pollsteri koji mogu reci jel to samo zbog njega i moze li se promijeniti uskoro. I da li ima kandidat koji ce moci bolje.

Striktno matematika i analiza, nista emocije.
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geralt
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#11715 Re: AMERIKA

Post by geralt »

Evo teksta bas na tu temu: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... allot.html
On Monday night, Democratic Sen. Michael Bennet told CNN that the White House “has done nothing to really demonstrate that they have a plan to win this election” and that Republicans could win the election in a “landslide.” Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Tuesday that Biden should “reexamine” his decision to run. A group of center-left House Democrats met Wednesday with Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to convey their fears about Biden’s ability to campaign and win.

They aren’t just worried about Trump winning a second term. They fear that a sinking Biden candidacy might doom the party to minority status in both chambers of Congress, and in many cases, sink their individual campaigns. These are not idle fears. Current polling suggests that the Democrats’ position in the battle for Congress has deteriorated since Biden’s debate fiasco, and recent history does not provide much comfort down-ballot. Anything can happen, but if Biden goes down, a lot of House and Senate Democrats are highly likely to go down with him.

That winning presidential candidates have a positive effect on other races is hardly controversial. It is known as the “coattail effect,” and while it isn’t the most studied question in political science, the research that’s out there is fairly clear: Congressional candidates tend to rise or fall in conjunction with the top of the ticket. Political scientist Robert Erikson found in 2016 that for “every percentage point that a presidential candidate gains in the two-party vote, their party’s down-ballot candidates gain almost half a point themselves.” A 1990 study by James E. Campbell and Joe A. Sumners found that for every 10 points that a presidential candidate gains in a state, it boosts that party’s Senate contender by 2 points, and its House hopefuls by 4. This basic logic is a large part of why the past five presidents brought congressional majorities into office with them when they were elected to their first term.

Democrats can also ill afford a visibly aging void at the top of the ticket because the party’s quest for congressional majorities started off this cycle at a major disadvantage to begin with. Democrats are defending 23 Senate seats (counting independents who caucus with them) to the GOP’s 10. Many of these endangered seats are in states Trump has won twice, including Montana and Ohio, or once, as in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. Because Sen. Joe Manchin’s retirement means that West Virginia is all but lost, Democrats would either have to run the table in the races they are defending or offset losses with flips elsewhere on the map. The problem is that no one seriously believes that any Republican-held Senate seats are in play this cycle. The House also likely maintains a modest Republican bias—especially after North Carolina Republicans aggressively gerrymandered their state’s map—meaning that Democrats would likely need to win 51 percent or more of the total House vote to emerge with a majority. At the moment, both the FiveThirtyEight and RealClearPolitics polling averages show an extremely tight race in the “generic ballot” question: whether voters want Republicans or Democrats in Congress.
It gets worse. Let’s say that Biden ultimately emerges with less than 40 percent of the vote on Election Day, as the RealClearPolitics average currently suggests. (FiveThirtyEight has him a hair over that number as of Thursday afternoon.) What happened to the political parties of the last major-party candidates to do that badly? No major-party nominee has dipped below that bleak threshold since George H.W. Bush’s 1992 campaign, when he won 37.4 percent. Republicans that year won 176 seats in the House and 43 seats in the Senate. Yes, they gained a few seats in the House over their 1990 numbers—but they didn’t get anywhere near a majority.
Would a new nominee at the top of the ticket change this grim reality? Those of us convinced that Biden needs to exit this race pronto have to acknowledge that there is not a ton of hard evidence that swapping out the nominee at this stage would help. A FiveThirtyEight analysis suggested that putting Vice President Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket would only improve the odds of winning the Electoral College by 3 percent. Polls testing lesser-known candidates like Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer look even worse on the surface but are likely the result of many respondents not knowing who she is. A CNN poll that showed Harris doing marginally better than Biden also had so-called “double haters”—those who dislike both Trump and Biden—breaking heavily for any conceivable Democratic replacement for Biden. And on Thursday, an ABC News/Washington Post/Ipsos poll found Harris beating Trump 49 percent to 47 percent—a net 3 points better than Biden’s standing in the poll. For the first time, Harris now does better in the RealClearPolitics head-to-head average against Trump than the president does.

It is also possible that Democrats’ struggles in congressional races are simply baked in at this point, because a new presidential nominee might also be blamed for inflation and housing woes, bear the brunt of the public’s dissatisfaction with immigration policy, inherit outrage over the Gaza war, and become a vessel for the public’s generally dyspeptic disposition. But there are two pieces of evidence suggesting that Biden is a unique drag on the party’s fortunes: A number of battleground state Democratic Senate candidates are running way ahead of Biden, including Wisconsin Sen. Tammy Baldwin and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey. And that’s not just the value of strong incumbents. Democratic candidates Ruben Gallego in Arizona and Elissa Slotkin in Michigan are also polling well in front of the president. And a November New York Times/Siena College swing-state poll also found Biden losing to Trump by 4 but a “generic Democrat” beating him by 8. That all suggests someone else would likely do better. At the least, having a national nominee capable of making a forceful case for the Democratic vision would be an improvement over what the party has now.

There is no public polling testing congressional races with different presidential nominees atop the ticket. So exactly what a new nominee would accomplish down-ballot is, ultimately, anyone’s guess. But the fact that many Democrats are hoping that Biden steps aside—especially the most vulnerable candidates like Montana Sen. Jon Tester—indicates that they feel like they’d have a better shot with someone else up there. They believe, with reason, that they are almost certainly holding a losing hand. Why wouldn’t they want to trade in some cards for new ones even if it carries some risk of making their hand worse?
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jeza u ledja
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#11716 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 16:09
jeza u ledja wrote: 12/07/2024 16:01
geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 15:49
Ako smatraju da su sanse da pobijedi nula posto, a mnogi ocigledno smatraju, onda nemaju sta da izgube.
Niko to ne smatra.
Imas bezbroj anonimnih demokrata koji upravo to izjavljuju za medije u zadnjim danima. Govorimo o ljudima koji imaju pristup informacijama sa terena koje mi nemamo.

Stvorena je iluzija da glasaci imaju izbor samo da glasaju za Bidena, ili da glasaju za Trumpa, i to je to. U stvarnosti oni mogu izabrati i da glasaju za RFK-a, ili da glasaju za Paju Patka, ili da ubace prazan listic. A najgori izbor koji mogu napraviti (po demokrate i njihove kandidate) je da ostanu kuci jer nemaju entuzijazma. Jer Trumpovi glasaci nece ostati kuci.
Mogu izjavljivati sta hoce. To misliti je jednostavno besmisleno. To ne misli apsolutno niko, ukljucujuci i Republikance.

Nije stvorena iluzija. Glasaci uvijek imaju izbor treceg kandidata ili ostanka kuci. O tome se jedino i prica, i to jedino pitanje - ko ce izaci da glasa i ko ce glasati za treceg kanidata
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jeza u ledja
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#11717 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

JohnnyS wrote: 12/07/2024 16:11 Meni samo nije jasna Bidenova familija, kako njima nije žao čovjeka kojeg ismijavaju milijuni ljudi (jest da su mahom idioti, ali svejedno) i čije se mentalno propadanje pretvara u najgledaniji reality show na svijetu. Pa mogu li mu oni reći makni se čovječe, jebote i Trump i Kamila i izbori.

U nas familije nagovore ovakvu starčad na operaciju od koje se nikad neće oporaviti za pet minuta, a oni da njega ne odogovore od kandidature koja je neizvjesnog ishoda, a može mu itekako narušiti i imidž i ukupni legacy
Cijela americka politicka elita je takva. A i bizsnis elita. Koga boli kurac za ismijavanjem, bitna je power.
Osmi Socrates
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#11718 Re: AMERIKA

Post by Osmi Socrates »

Najbitnije pitanje je da li je Biden sposoban da obavlja funkciju predsjednika, a ne da li je sposoban da pobjedi Trumpa.

Ako se na osnovu današnjih informacija raspravlja da li je mentalno sposoban da obavlja funkciju predsjednika od januara 2025 pa nadalje, pitanje bi se trebalo postaviti da li je sposoban da obavlja funkciju predsjednika danas.

Ako nije, najodgovorniji čin bi bio da podnese ostavku i da Harris postane predsjednica. Nije pet-šest mjeseci na poziciji predsjednika nebitno, da ih se otpisuje zbog predsjedničkih izbora i stranačkih (ili privatnih) kalkulacija.

Pa čak i ako gledaš striktno stranački, Harris bi bila u nešto boljoj poziciji ako bi u izbore ušla kao incumbent president.
Last edited by Osmi Socrates on 12/07/2024 17:28, edited 1 time in total.
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_BataZiv_0809
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#11719 Re: AMERIKA

Post by _BataZiv_0809 »

geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 16:09 Jer Trumpovi glasaci nece ostati kuci.
Oni ko glasaci SDA :mrgreen:
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jeza u ledja
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#11720 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

Osmi Socrates wrote: 12/07/2024 17:25 Najbitnije pitanje je da li je Biden sposoban da obavlja funkciju predsjednika, a ne da li je sposoban da pobjedi Trumpa.

Ako se na osnovu današnjih informacija raspravlja da li je mentalno sposoban da obavlja funkciju predsjednika od januara 2025 pa nadalje, pitanje bi se trebalo postaviti da li je sposoban da obavlja funkciju predsjednika danas.

Ako nije, najodgovorniji čin bi bio da podnese ostavku i da Harris postane predsjednica. Nije pet-šest mjeseci na poziciji predsjednika nebitno, da ih se otpisuje zbog predsjedničkih izbora i stranačkih (ili privatnih) kalkulacija.

Pa čak i ako gledaš striktno stranački, Harris bi bila u nešto boljoj poziciji ako bi u izbore ušla kao incumbent president.
Trump nikada nije bio sposoban da obavlja tu funkciju, pa evo prezivismo.
Sad je takmicenje ko je manje nesposoban.
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#11721 Re: AMERIKA

Post by Chmoljo »

_BataZiv_0809 wrote: 12/07/2024 17:27
geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 16:09 Jer Trumpovi glasaci nece ostati kuci.
Oni ko glasaci SDA :mrgreen:
Svaka desnica je takva manje vise.
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#11722 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

geralt wrote: 12/07/2024 16:26 Evo teksta bas na tu temu: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... allot.html
On Monday night, Democratic Sen. Michael Bennet told CNN that the White House “has done nothing to really demonstrate that they have a plan to win this election” and that Republicans could win the election in a “landslide.” Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Tuesday that Biden should “reexamine” his decision to run. A group of center-left House Democrats met Wednesday with Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to convey their fears about Biden’s ability to campaign and win.

They aren’t just worried about Trump winning a second term. They fear that a sinking Biden candidacy might doom the party to minority status in both chambers of Congress, and in many cases, sink their individual campaigns. These are not idle fears. Current polling suggests that the Democrats’ position in the battle for Congress has deteriorated since Biden’s debate fiasco, and recent history does not provide much comfort down-ballot. Anything can happen, but if Biden goes down, a lot of House and Senate Democrats are highly likely to go down with him.

That winning presidential candidates have a positive effect on other races is hardly controversial. It is known as the “coattail effect,” and while it isn’t the most studied question in political science, the research that’s out there is fairly clear: Congressional candidates tend to rise or fall in conjunction with the top of the ticket. Political scientist Robert Erikson found in 2016 that for “every percentage point that a presidential candidate gains in the two-party vote, their party’s down-ballot candidates gain almost half a point themselves.” A 1990 study by James E. Campbell and Joe A. Sumners found that for every 10 points that a presidential candidate gains in a state, it boosts that party’s Senate contender by 2 points, and its House hopefuls by 4. This basic logic is a large part of why the past five presidents brought congressional majorities into office with them when they were elected to their first term.

Democrats can also ill afford a visibly aging void at the top of the ticket because the party’s quest for congressional majorities started off this cycle at a major disadvantage to begin with. Democrats are defending 23 Senate seats (counting independents who caucus with them) to the GOP’s 10. Many of these endangered seats are in states Trump has won twice, including Montana and Ohio, or once, as in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. Because Sen. Joe Manchin’s retirement means that West Virginia is all but lost, Democrats would either have to run the table in the races they are defending or offset losses with flips elsewhere on the map. The problem is that no one seriously believes that any Republican-held Senate seats are in play this cycle. The House also likely maintains a modest Republican bias—especially after North Carolina Republicans aggressively gerrymandered their state’s map—meaning that Democrats would likely need to win 51 percent or more of the total House vote to emerge with a majority. At the moment, both the FiveThirtyEight and RealClearPolitics polling averages show an extremely tight race in the “generic ballot” question: whether voters want Republicans or Democrats in Congress.
It gets worse. Let’s say that Biden ultimately emerges with less than 40 percent of the vote on Election Day, as the RealClearPolitics average currently suggests. (FiveThirtyEight has him a hair over that number as of Thursday afternoon.) What happened to the political parties of the last major-party candidates to do that badly? No major-party nominee has dipped below that bleak threshold since George H.W. Bush’s 1992 campaign, when he won 37.4 percent. Republicans that year won 176 seats in the House and 43 seats in the Senate. Yes, they gained a few seats in the House over their 1990 numbers—but they didn’t get anywhere near a majority.
Would a new nominee at the top of the ticket change this grim reality? Those of us convinced that Biden needs to exit this race pronto have to acknowledge that there is not a ton of hard evidence that swapping out the nominee at this stage would help. A FiveThirtyEight analysis suggested that putting Vice President Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket would only improve the odds of winning the Electoral College by 3 percent. Polls testing lesser-known candidates like Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer look even worse on the surface but are likely the result of many respondents not knowing who she is. A CNN poll that showed Harris doing marginally better than Biden also had so-called “double haters”—those who dislike both Trump and Biden—breaking heavily for any conceivable Democratic replacement for Biden. And on Thursday, an ABC News/Washington Post/Ipsos poll found Harris beating Trump 49 percent to 47 percent—a net 3 points better than Biden’s standing in the poll. For the first time, Harris now does better in the RealClearPolitics head-to-head average against Trump than the president does.

It is also possible that Democrats’ struggles in congressional races are simply baked in at this point, because a new presidential nominee might also be blamed for inflation and housing woes, bear the brunt of the public’s dissatisfaction with immigration policy, inherit outrage over the Gaza war, and become a vessel for the public’s generally dyspeptic disposition. But there are two pieces of evidence suggesting that Biden is a unique drag on the party’s fortunes: A number of battleground state Democratic Senate candidates are running way ahead of Biden, including Wisconsin Sen. Tammy Baldwin and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey. And that’s not just the value of strong incumbents. Democratic candidates Ruben Gallego in Arizona and Elissa Slotkin in Michigan are also polling well in front of the president. And a November New York Times/Siena College swing-state poll also found Biden losing to Trump by 4 but a “generic Democrat” beating him by 8. That all suggests someone else would likely do better. At the least, having a national nominee capable of making a forceful case for the Democratic vision would be an improvement over what the party has now.

There is no public polling testing congressional races with different presidential nominees atop the ticket. So exactly what a new nominee would accomplish down-ballot is, ultimately, anyone’s guess. But the fact that many Democrats are hoping that Biden steps aside—especially the most vulnerable candidates like Montana Sen. Jon Tester—indicates that they feel like they’d have a better shot with someone else up there. They believe, with reason, that they are almost certainly holding a losing hand. Why wouldn’t they want to trade in some cards for new ones even if it carries some risk of making their hand worse?
Ako tako misli vecina Demokrata, mogli su na vrijeme palamuditi o tome, kao sto trube sada. Posto nisu, ne mogu kriviti nikog do sebe.
Moglo se o tome razgovarati i prije 4 godine.

Poenta je da je sad KASNO. Imas to sto imas. Vrijeme za odabir ne proslo.

Oni koji ga danas javno kritikuju ukalkulisali su da im je tako bolje radi vlastite koristi.
Cijela americka politika je samo gledanje vlastite koristi.

Tako ce isto poslije Trumpa izmiliti svi “kriticari”.
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#11723 Re: AMERIKA

Post by Osmi Socrates »

Za neodlučene glasače, nije pitanje ko je manje nesposoban. Na njima dobijaš ili gubiš izbore. Ako ne izađu na izbore jer nemaju kandidata za koga mogu glasati, Biden će izgubiti izbore.

A mnoge druge demokrate se boje da će i oni izgubiti izbore zbog toga.
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#11724 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

Osmi Socrates wrote: 12/07/2024 17:52 Za neodlučene glasače, nije pitanje ko je manje nesposoban. Na njima dobijaš ili gubiš izbore. Ako ne izađu na izbore jer nemaju kandidata za koga mogu glasati, Biden će izgubiti izbore.

A mnoge druge demokrate se boje da će i oni izgubiti izbore zbog toga.
ok
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#11725 Re: AMERIKA

Post by GandalfSivi »

Vi se zajebajete a vamo se rekordi obaraju 🍾🎊🎉💰💰💰
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