Ukrajina

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geralt
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#153976 Re: Ukrajina

Post by geralt »

Novi izvjestaj RUSI instituta, ovaj put o ruskoj obavjestajnoj aktivnosti u Ukrajini. Vecinu informacija smo mi na temi vec znali, ali je jako dobro sumirano na jednom mjestu. Neki interesatni detalji, kao npr. da su dobar dio "nacista" u Ukrajini bili placeni ruski provokatori.
Prior to the invasion, Ukrainian law enforcement accuses him of receiving money to organise protests in Kyiv and three other oblasts at which extreme right-wing symbols would be prevalent and in which the protesters would accuse the government of failing to confront the threat from Russia. The intent was to infiltrate these protests with paid criminals and agent provocateurs to spark violent confrontations with the police. The original idea was to present the protests as an attempted ‘far-right coup’ and to use them as a justification for the invasion. It was also intended to sow internal instability among the Ukrainian resistance.
Before joining the pro-Russia camp in 2019, Kiva pretended to be a radical Ukrainian nationalist known for his aggressive Russophobia. Immediately after the Revolution of Dignity, Kiva joined the leadership of the paramilitary organisation Right Sector, and soon after joined the National Police of Ukraine, where he headed the Department of Anti-Drug Trafficking, as well as the trade union of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
The population was divided into five core categories:

1. Those deemed leaders of Ukrainian nationalism who were specified for physical liquidation on a high-priority target list, or for capture to enable show trials.

2. Those suspected of intending to support acts of resistance who needed to be recruited or suppressed including anyone associated with Ukrainian law enforcement, local government, the military or related to officials that were not actively collaborating.

3. Those who were deemed apathetic.

4. Those actively collaborating with Russian forces.

5. Individuals who were necessary for running critical national infrastructure and had to be controlled.

Within each town the TOG would appoint a garrison commander from the Russian military who would have an assigned detachment of garrison troops. These troops would occupy a building – usually the police or fire station – and set up facilities for detention, processing, interrogation and torture. The fact that the layout of these facilities is consistent throughout the country, and the equipment used in torture chambers, including specialised electrocution machines, were the same across multiple oblasts demonstrates that this was a systematic plan and not improvised sadism.
Based on its experiences in Chechnya, the planning assumption was that 8% of the population needed to collaborate, whether proactively or under coercion, to enable the counterintelligence regime to be effective. The Ukrainian intelligence community, based on assessments of those areas where the Russians did establish control, concluded that the FSB was broadly correct in its requirements for local support.
For those in senior positions or responsible for critical national infrastructure who were not active collaborators, the Russians worked to build leverage over them. In most cases this was first achieved through direct intimidation. Mayors, for example, were often taken in for questioning and received beatings, only to be released. Additionally, many persons in this category had members of their family detained and tortured. It was usually made clear to the person who was a target for leverage that other members of their family could also be detained, or the detained family members tortured further, if they did not comply with Russian instructions. This was also done by targeting Ukrainian officials within Ukrainian-controlled territory who had family members on the occupied territories. Generally speaking, the purpose of torture was to build leverage, evident from both the communications sent by the TOG to the target and as the victim was not subjected to questioning during or after their torture, but was simply tortured and then released.
Prior to the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the number of Spetsnaz units in Russian formations had been expanding rapidly. Most military analysts anticipated that this would lead to Russian formations having a much stronger reconnaissance and direct action capability organic to their brigades. In the Second Chechen War, and in Syria, the Russian military had extensively employed Spetsnaz as reconnaissance troops to screen its advances and in other special forces roles. This was done for some formations during the invasion. For example, Spetsnaz punched into Kharkiv significantly ahead of the conventional forces. Although these formations could have been employed more widely in this way, the expansion of Spetsnaz units had contributed to a shortage of competent contract infantry for the wider Russian military – as most competent infantry had been pushed toward Spetsnaz and airborne units. For the invasion of Ukraine, the Kremlin limited the number of conscripts in its battalion tactical groups, while the size of the invasion force prevented the concentration of personnel from across the force to bring those units committed to their full complement.

As a result, many Battlegroups were significantly under strength. Russian armoured personnel carriers often contained as few as three infantry. This may not have been a problem if the purpose of the Ground Force was to shock and awe the Ukrainians into folding, enabling the mechanisms of repression to get into Ukraine’s cities and establish control. Once the Russian military found itself in heavy fighting, however, the shortage of infantry became a serious problem. The lack of effective line infantry units caused Spetsnaz units to be deployed mostly as light infantry, which also led to a high level of casualties among these units. Far fewer Spetsnaz were therefore available for special forces missions.
https://static.rusi.org/202303-SR-Uncon ... al.pdf.pdf
mishic
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#153977 Re: Ukrajina

Post by mishic »

sumirprimus wrote: 30/03/2023 10:24 sto je i glavni argument u tezu da nama vise treba protuoklopa i pvo sredstava negoli oklopa i letjelica.
Jasno kao dan, protuoklopi i ovo ako ćemo se braniti od daljih napada a oklopi i letjelice ako ćemo u oslobađanje zemlje.
Ova dilema može biti poturena i građanima jer oni u neokupiranom dijelu zemlje bi radije protuoklope i pvo za razliku od onih iz okupiranog dijela koji bi da se vrate svojim kućama i na svoja imanja i radna mjesta.
CrveniKuk
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#153978 Re: Ukrajina

Post by CrveniKuk »

zigzag wrote: 30/03/2023 15:29 Taj pekar može kritikovati poslije rata, sad može pušku u ruke i u rov.
Ništa nije slučajno obajavljeno, pogotovo ovakav način razmišljanja. Znaju Rusi, isto kao i mi, da dok Ukrajinci imaju morala i voolje za borbu, neće moći ostvariti svoje interese i rat će biti nastavljen sa mogućnosti da ga izgube. Na ovo treba posmatrati kao dio propagande, slično kao kada se Ukrajinci dijele na zapad i istok, gdje niko sa zapada Ukrajine i iz Kijeva nezeli ici u vojsku da se bori na istoku.
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bordo gandalf
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#153979 Re: Ukrajina

Post by bordo gandalf »

sumirprimus wrote: 30/03/2023 16:32
Dajgle snjega u bahmutu danas :skoljka:
Babine huke :D
zigzag
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#153980 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

Babuškine hyke
Crvene_brigade
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#153981 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Crvene_brigade »

Bitka za grad-heroj Bahmut je početak kraja Putinovih agresorsko-fašističkih falangi...



Last edited by Crvene_brigade on 30/03/2023 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
CrveniKuk
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#153982 Re: Ukrajina

Post by CrveniKuk »

Oryx pretpostavlja, da Holanđani poslali preko 300 YPR-765.
mishic
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#153983 Re: Ukrajina

Post by mishic »

Ne bih se složio sa onima koji olahko minimiziraju stepene razaranja, rušenja privrede i cijene rata u Ukrajini.
Možda kada se govori o procentima u odnosu na teritorij i broj stanovnika to nisu cifre koje dostižu neke još ugroženije sredine ali rat ovakvog inteziteta sa svim svojim kako trenutnim tako i dugoročnim posljedicama je zastrašujući. Kada se prave takve kalkulacije i određuje "cijena" rata onda te cifre nisu ni približno realne.
statixx
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#153984 Re: Ukrajina

Post by statixx »

Zviz

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geralt
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#153985 Re: Ukrajina

Post by geralt »

Pustanje ex-Wagner robijasa na slobodu ima sasvim ocekivane rezultate. Osudjeni ubica koji se vratio iz Ukrajine poceo prijetiti i razbijati, policija ga prvo privela pa pustila, jer gdje ces ratnog heroja privesti. Nakon pustanja ubio zenu.

adelkam
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#153986 Re: Ukrajina

Post by adelkam »




To je neka moja pretpostavka ili mozda vise zelja, da budem iskren :izet:
Panter KF51 (T-14 Armata killer)
Morati cu otici da vidim ovaj tenk prvom prilikom :-D
statixx
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#153987 Re: Ukrajina

Post by statixx »

Orci opet u panici dok napadaju.

zigzag
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#153988 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

Ne mogu ja ovo shvatiti. Znaju da će biti sprženi i opet na isti način sjedaju u tenkove i kreću u koloni.
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pici
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#153989 Re: Ukrajina

Post by pici »

VLADIMIR Putin potpisao je uredbu o pozivanju 147.000 ruskih državljana na služenje vojnog roka u sklopu proljetne regrutacije, izvijestili su ruski državni mediji, a prenosi The Guardian. Ruski predsjednik je ovakvu odredbu posljednji put potpisao u rujnu, pozivajući 120.000 građana u redovitu službu, objavila je državna novinska agencija TASS.

U to je vrijeme rusko ministarstvo obrane priopćilo da jesensko novačenje "nije ni na koji način povezano sa specijalnom vojnom operacijom", službenim ruskim izrazom za invaziju na Ukrajinu. Svi muškarci u Rusiji u dobi od 18 do 27 godina moraju odslužiti vojni rok u trajanju od godinu dana.

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zigzag
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#153990 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

Mlada teletina :mrgreen:
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pici
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#153991 Re: Ukrajina

Post by pici »

Ovo sa Bahmutom me podsjeca na Ardene u ww2.Njemci ostvarili kontraofanzivu i okruzili amerikance i njihovu slavnu 101 vazdusno desantnu i sta se desilo.Saveznicki stab bio zatecen, nije imao dovoljno udarnih jedinica da odgovori švabama.I desilo se nesto neocekivano, u glavnom stožeru okupili se svi generali i sta da se radi, katastrofa na pomolu, ostadose bez njzesce udarne divizije i jos brigada boga pitaj koliko.Svi generali u bunilu, treba im mjesec do dva da se pregrupitaju i krenu na švabe, to nevjerica, kad jedan general koji je bio bezkrupulozan, naravno Patton, kaze ja za par sati mogu da krenem u proboj.Svi u nevjerici, zapravo sta se desilo.Njegova 3 armija je krenula preko Siegfriedove linije, zapravo on je ocekivao njemacki udar sjeverno u Ardenima i unaprijed okrenuo nekoliko divizija na sjever dok je lagano isao bez zurbe prema njemackoj granici.E to su trebali Ukrajinski generali predvidjeti.Jer su elitne trupe rusa i placenika bile usmjerene prema Bahmutu.Doooosta ranije su morali poslati svoje elitne brigade i specijalce da ih zaustave kod Krasne Gore i Soledara.Lako je biti general poslije bitke, al eto jedno zapazanje da u Ukrajinskom stabu fali jedan vizioner general tipa Pattona ili cak Romela.Ruske generale necu da spominjem jer oni su slali meso i čelik i to nije nikakva taktika vec klaonica.Treba da ljube japance u dupe sto su uvukli ameriku u rat i tako poslali milion i po svjezih vojnika sa kinesko-sovjetske granice na Staljingrad.-et toliko.



p.s. ovo sam postao na drugoj temi, jebga zajbo se. :mrgreen:
DebelinJoe
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#153992 Re: Ukrajina

Post by DebelinJoe »

zigzag wrote: 30/03/2023 20:37 Mlada teletina :mrgreen:
Mlada rusetina...
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#153993 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

pici wrote: 30/03/2023 20:39



p.s. ovo sam postao na drugoj temi, jebga zajbo se. :mrgreen:
Postao na temi : gdje na more
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studiorum_tuzlaensis
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#153994 Re: Ukrajina

Post by studiorum_tuzlaensis »

Mobilizacija 0.1% populacije...

Sad radi guza ko meduza, dissent u porastu. ;)

Prve grupe otpora ce niknuti, pokreti za nezavisnost, ocepljenjaaa itd...
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karanana
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#153995 Re: Ukrajina

Post by karanana »

standardni poziv i regrutovanje mladih vojaka koje rade dva puta godisnje.
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#153996 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

Čekaj , 24.02 prošle godine ruski regruti gurnuti iz Bjelorusije u Ukrajinu.
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drug_profi
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#153997 Re: Ukrajina

Post by drug_profi »

Dope_Man wrote: 30/03/2023 15:55 Procentualno gledano Ukrajini uopste nece biti potrebno mnogo u poredjenju sa BiH. U BiH je unisten ogroman procenat privrede, u Ukrajini je to veoma malo jer dosta dijelova zemlje, osim mozda ponekog dalekometnog projektila u par mjeseci, uopste nisu vidjeli rat, privreda i dalje fercera i ide dalje.

Naravno, bitno je da se samo nakon rata sredstva koja ce generisati zdravi dio privrede usmjere tamo gdje treba zbog oporavka, a svakako ce biti i para k'o kise u vidu donacija. Bice tu "dobrih" kao i svugdje, samo je bitno da se vlast pobrine da ne bude previse toga, al sudeci po hapsenjima koja vec sad rade, moglo bi to na hajr.
Ono sto se zna zasigurno sada: Ukrajina ima sačuvanu tehnološku bazu za razliku od BiH.
Oni će i dalje servisirati helikoptere i avionske motore, i razvijati nove.
Ukrajina će morati cijelu svoje zeljeznicku mrzu prebaciti sa Ruske na evropsku sirinu. Kolika je tu investicija? Garantujem da ce je EU Platiti.Ukrajina mora izgraditi svoju ratnu flotu. To je ogromna investicija.
Ukrajina ima svoja gasna i naftna polja i moze znacajno zamjeniti ruski gas.
Ukrajina ce sasvim sigurno imati u ponudi vrhunske ratne masine koje ca sama proizvoditi i za sebe i za izvoz.
Ukrajina ima tradiciju autoindustrije i veliki broj kvalitetnih mašinaca, tradiciju precizne mehanike, a nizak standard, pa je očekivati velika ulaganja automobilskih giganta u proizvodne kapacitete tamo. Itd. itd.
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studiorum_tuzlaensis
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#153998 Re: Ukrajina

Post by studiorum_tuzlaensis »

Porediti Ukrajinu od 40mil stanovnika i Bosnu koja je bila vukojebina i ispod prosjeka razvijenosti tadašnje Juge je smiješno, pa tako i bilo sta u ovom ratu.
mishic
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#153999 Re: Ukrajina

Post by mishic »

"Putin potpisao ukaz o regrutiranju još 147.000 vojnika"

Ako odmah nije raspisao i tender za izradu makar 120.000 mrtvačkih sanduka u velikim je gubitcima.
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drug_profi
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#154000 Re: Ukrajina

Post by drug_profi »

sumirprimus wrote: 30/03/2023 16:27
Bice klipova
Ovo ce biti prva ratna primjena novog gospodara bojista. Zapamtite taj dan. Bili su avioni, bili su tenkovi, a biće FPV dronovi.
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