Ukrajina

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JoseMujica
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#64001 Re: Ukrajina

Post by JoseMujica »

Preparing for Defeat
Francis Fukuyama
10 Mar 2022, 4:03 pm

I’m writing this from Skopje, North Macedonia, where I’ve been for the last week teaching one of our Leadership Academy for Development courses. Following the Ukraine war is no different here in terms of available information, except that I’m in an adjacent time zone, and the fact that there is more support for Putin in the Balkans than in other parts of Europe. A lot of the latter is due to Serbia, and Serbia's hosting of Sputnik.

I’ll stick my neck out and make several prognostications:

Russia is heading for an outright defeat in Ukraine. Russian planning was incompetent, based on a flawed assumption that Ukrainians were favorable to Russia and that their military would collapse immediately following an invasion. Russian soldiers were evidently carrying dress uniforms for their victory parade in Kyiv rather than extra ammo and rations. Putin at this point has committed the bulk of his entire military to this operation—there are no vast reserves of forces he can call up to add to the battle. Russian troops are stuck outside various Ukrainian cities where they face huge supply problems and constant Ukrainian attacks.
The collapse of their position could be sudden and catastrophic, rather than happening slowly through a war of attrition. The army in the field will reach a point where it can neither be supplied nor withdrawn, and morale will vaporize. This is at least true in the north; the Russians are doing better in the south, but those positions would be hard to maintain if the north collapses.
There is no diplomatic solution to the war possible prior to this happening. There is no conceivable compromise that would be acceptable to both Russia and Ukraine given the losses they have taken at this point.
The United Nations Security Council has proven once again to be useless. The only helpful thing was the General Assembly vote, which helps to identify the world’s bad or prevaricating actors.
The Biden administration’s decisions not to declare a no-fly zone or help transfer Polish MiGs were both good ones; they've kept their heads during a very emotional time. It is much better to have the Ukrainians defeat the Russians on their own, depriving Moscow of the excuse that NATO attacked them, as well as avoiding all the obvious escalatory possibilities. The Polish MiGs in particular would not add much to Ukrainian capabilities. Much more important is a continuing supply of Javelins, Stingers, TB2s, medical supplies, comms equipment, and intel sharing. I assume that Ukrainian forces are already being vectored by NATO intelligence operating from outside Ukraine.
The cost that Ukraine is paying is enormous, of course. But the greatest damage is being done by rockets and artillery, which neither MiGs nor a no-fly zone can do much about. The only thing that will stop the slaughter is defeat of the Russian army on the ground.
Putin will not survive the defeat of his army. He gets support because he is perceived to be a strongman; what does he have to offer once he demonstrates incompetence and is stripped of his coercive power?
The invasion has already done huge damage to populists all over the world, who prior to the attack uniformly expressed sympathy for Putin. That includes Matteo Salvini, Jair Bolsonaro, Éric Zemmour, Marine Le Pen, Viktor Orbán, and of course Donald Trump. The politics of the war has exposed their openly authoritarian leanings.
The war to this point has been a good lesson for China. Like Russia, China has built up seemingly high-tech military forces in the past decade, but they have no combat experience. The miserable performance of the Russian air force would likely be replicated by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force, which similarly has no experience managing complex air operations. We may hope that the Chinese leadership will not delude itself as to its own capabilities the way the Russians did when contemplating a future move against Taiwan.
Hopefully Taiwan itself will wake up as to the need to prepare to fight as the Ukrainians have done, and restore conscription. Let’s not be prematurely defeatist.
Turkish drones will become bestsellers.
A Russian defeat will make possible a “new birth of freedom,” and get us out of our funk about the declining state of global democracy. The spirit of 1989 will live on, thanks to a bunch of brave Ukrainians.
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JoseMujica
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#64002 Re: Ukrajina

Post by JoseMujica »

zigzag wrote: 14/03/2022 19:12 Kako se na engleskom kaže suncokretio?
sunflowerio :lol: :lol: :lol:
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SanskiBiser
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#64003 Re: Ukrajina

Post by SanskiBiser »

sumirprimus wrote: 14/03/2022 19:24 Dobro sii to upratio a gdje si pratio :mrgreen:
Bilo na telegramu neka od grupa ukrajinskih sinoc kasno listao i naletim na taj info, to juce popodne bilo, bilo mislim cak objavljeno na ruskim kanalima da su Bajraktar oborili...
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husein_kapetan
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#64004 Re: Ukrajina

Post by husein_kapetan »

GandalfSivi wrote: 14/03/2022 19:19
husein_kapetan wrote: 14/03/2022 19:13
Ne mogu a da ne repliciram.. Ma koji je vama djavo..ratuju dojucerasnja braca izmedju sebe jer jedan nesto slagao a drugom motka u rukama pa odlucio da mu silom vrati..i sada nastupa kolektivna histerija koja presedana nema..izbore i odluke trecih treba konstatirati i ne prepoznavati se ni u kome ni u cemu..imamo i mi ovdje debeo problem koji se naslonio na krizu tamosnju..skutori hahare dizuci cijene u nebo zarad sicara bolesnog i blasfemnog..politicari..eh..bolje da se suzdrzim..bez da se ista ovdje desava mnogi ostre naume svoje nebi li kao nesto usicarili..hiljade stranica glupog blebetanja i projekcija bez da najveci dio ovdje dalje od nosa ne vidi..
Ovaj telefonirani rat je samo kockica rastuceg globalnog sukoba koji se veoma jasno profilira..busije su se uglavnom zauzele..ovo je samo pocetak ustrojavanja nekog novog poretka i lomice se uglavnom preko ledja trecih..cuvajte energiju za ono sto nama u narednom periodu predstoji.. ovom besmislenom mlacenju prazne slame ovdje ne vidim svrhu..
Ratova ovog tipa u zadnih 20 godina vidjesmo barem 10..mjenja samo fakat da su "treci" oni koji iniciraju agresije ovog tipa.. i naravno da se geometrije globalnog pozicioniranja mijenjaju nepovratno..
Racionalan pristup ovom problemu koji je upeo prste i u prilike ovdasnje bi za sve nas trebala biti "via maestra"..a ne puko navijacko blebetanje..
Aha, isto da si prepisao od cetnika kako su nas Amerikanci posvadjali, dzaba sto su guslali haman 40 godina Juge, dzaba sto su preuzeli armiju, napali Sloveniju, Hrvatsku, dovukli sve oruzje u BiH, podijelili isto, ukopali se oko Sarajeva, doveli bruku dobrovoljaca, pobili 100 hiljada ljudi, napravili genocid u Srebrenici, dzaba sve to, Ameri su krivi.

I tako i tvoja prica ovdje…
Boga ti procita li ti ista od onog sto napisah..ne baljezgaj ovdje praveci se da si nesto shvatio..ja sam mrco 4 puta ranjen od onih koje meni pod nos kao ideologiju guras..poklopi se usima i pisi onda kada neso susvislo imas reci..moja je greska sto te kvotah..nece se vise desiti..analiticaru cipela mojih
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#64005 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »


Bio jednom jedan vdv propo ko pdv :izet:
homer2go
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#64006 Re: Ukrajina

Post by homer2go »

husein_kapetan wrote: 14/03/2022 19:30
GandalfSivi wrote: 14/03/2022 19:19

Aha, isto da si prepisao od cetnika kako su nas Amerikanci posvadjali, dzaba sto su guslali haman 40 godina Juge, dzaba sto su preuzeli armiju, napali Sloveniju, Hrvatsku, dovukli sve oruzje u BiH, podijelili isto, ukopali se oko Sarajeva, doveli bruku dobrovoljaca, pobili 100 hiljada ljudi, napravili genocid u Srebrenici, dzaba sve to, Ameri su krivi.

I tako i tvoja prica ovdje…
Boga ti procita li ti ista od onog sto napisah..ne baljezgaj ovdje praveci se da si nesto shvatio..ja sam mrco 4 puta ranjen od onih koje meni pod nos kao ideologiju guras..poklopi se usima i pisi onda kada neso susvislo imas reci..moja je greska sto te kvotah..nece se vise desiti..analiticaru cipela mojih
Ko nas bre zavadi, brale!
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geralt
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#64007 Re: Ukrajina

Post by geralt »

TomANDJerry wrote: 14/03/2022 19:24 Ovo sam poprilicno siguran da radi neko drugi, Ukrajinci su tu mozda samo paravan :D ponekad je tesko znati zasto GPS, Internet ili racunar ne radi kako si zamislio :D
Poobarali su i Ukrajinci dosta ovih Orlana ranije u Donbasu, nesto direktno oruzjem, nesto elektronskim blokiranjem. Nije bas da nemaju sredstva i znanje da to sami rade.
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pici
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#64008 Re: Ukrajina

Post by pici »

geralt wrote: 14/03/2022 19:20

Izgleda da ih Ukrajinci elektronski ometaju, i onda besciljno lete u jednom smjeru dok imaju goriva. Tako je vjerovatno i onaj drugi dron zavrsio u Zagrebu.
Avaksi i avioni za ometanje su vec odavno na granici istoka NATO-a.Elektronsko ometanje je veliki adut koji zapad ima na konto rusije i kine.
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#64009 Re: Ukrajina

Post by MUNAFIK »

asurbanipal wrote: 14/03/2022 19:11
sumirprimus wrote: 14/03/2022 18:22 Mostar!

Image

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Don't forget :bih:

Gledaj ti sta su nama susjedi ustase i komšije cetnico radili...

Kako samo brzo zaboravljamo :(
Milenkov buraz
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#64010 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Milenkov buraz »

zigzag wrote: 14/03/2022 19:12 Kako se na engleskom kaže suncokretio?
Sunflowerio :mrgreen:
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#64011 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

Joj kapetane jarane ti stvarno trazis :lol:
Tema je ukrajina a ne tvoja predavanja i zbilja imas cudna razmisljanja za nekog ko je bio u arbih a nisi jedini bio a toliko branis nase neprriatelje. Spusti taj stav da te ne bi na svaku preskakali . Kakva ba neutrlanost u trenutlu la dse svijet dijeli i kad i eu trazi od nas isto sankcije rusiji.
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#64012 Re: Ukrajina

Post by mO k3 »

geralt wrote: 14/03/2022 19:33
TomANDJerry wrote: 14/03/2022 19:24 Ovo sam poprilicno siguran da radi neko drugi, Ukrajinci su tu mozda samo paravan :D ponekad je tesko znati zasto GPS, Internet ili racunar ne radi kako si zamislio :D
Poobarali su i Ukrajinci dosta ovih Orlana ranije u Donbasu, nesto direktno oruzjem, nesto elektronskim blokiranjem. Nije bas da nemaju sredstva i znanje da to sami rade.
NATO je tu , Ukrajinci dobijaju od njih sve info koje trebaju i ne samo to nego naoruzanje ...
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#64013 Re: Ukrajina

Post by vjeshalica »

da hoce dobiti po picy ovaj samodopadni turbo čafirčina kadirov
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husein_kapetan
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#64014 Re: Ukrajina

Post by husein_kapetan »

homer2go wrote: 14/03/2022 19:32
husein_kapetan wrote: 14/03/2022 19:30
Boga ti procita li ti ista od onog sto napisah..ne baljezgaj ovdje praveci se da si nesto shvatio..ja sam mrco 4 puta ranjen od onih koje meni pod nos kao ideologiju guras..poklopi se usima i pisi onda kada neso susvislo imas reci..moja je greska sto te kvotah..nece se vise desiti..analiticaru cipela mojih
Ko nas bre zavadi, brale!
A ti mrco ko si? Imas p.p ako mi nesto direktno zelis reci..
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#64015 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Naslovnica »

sumirprimus wrote: 14/03/2022 19:27

Ookeeej ovo vec postsje simptomaticno.
Hvala velikom bratu i dajdzi dzou nema dalje :bih:
Hoće to kada ih natovariš kineskim petardama.
:lol:
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#64016 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

Padaju na sve strane i razne tipe :mrgreen:
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geralt
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#64017 Re: Ukrajina

Post by geralt »

vjeshalica wrote: 14/03/2022 19:35 da hoce dobiti po picy ovaj samodopadni turbo čafirčina kadirov
Bice Rusima na Kavkazu opet "veselo" ako on suncokreti, a dobre su sanse da hoce. Vjerujem da su Ukrajinci barem nekoliko Bajraktara rezervisali za njega, a debil je sigurno aktivan na drustvenim mrezama i nosi licni mobitel sa sobom.
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#64018 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

I ne mora on jvalio se brojevima, a ovde se brojevi brzo tope :oops:
Kad lokalci namirisu krv bice veselo i sa ramzanom a i cijelom njegovom klanu.
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Bloo
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#64019 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Bloo »

vjeshalica wrote: 14/03/2022 19:35 da hoce dobiti po picy ovaj samodopadni turbo čafirčina kadirov
:mrgreen:
Naslov: Ramazan Kadirov šokirao: "Sumnjate da li smo u Kijevu? Možda smo već tu!"
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JoseMujica
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#64020 Re: Ukrajina

Post by JoseMujica »

sumirprimus wrote: 14/03/2022 19:34 Joj kapetane jarane ti stvarno trazis :lol:
Tema je ukrajina a ne tvoja predavanja i zbilja imas cudna razmisljanja za nekog ko je bio u arbih a nisi jedini bio a toliko branis nase neprriatelje. Spusti taj stav da te ne bi na svaku preskakali . Kakva ba neutrlanost u trenutlu la dse svijet dijeli i kad i eu trazi od nas isto sankcije rusiji.
nemoj tako sumi...ako je kapetan Bakirovac ne smije iskakati iz partijske linije...Kumrovačka je to škola :evil:
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#64021 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »


Oco je ozbiljan lik sa podacima i citajte sta pise, kako god da prevedete isto zvuci!!!
:izet:
1.45 :bih:


Not to mention, Russia has struggled to meet its targets for contract servicemen in the Russian military. It is losing many of them here and of course there will be a question as to whether future conscripts decide to continue their service after watching this war. 2/
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#64022 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

Nemaju brojeve!
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vjeshalica
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#64023 Re: Ukrajina

Post by vjeshalica »

geralt wrote: 14/03/2022 19:39
vjeshalica wrote: 14/03/2022 19:35 da hoce dobiti po picy ovaj samodopadni turbo čafirčina kadirov
Bice Rusima na Kavkazu opet "veselo" ako on suncokreti, a dobre su sanse da hoce. Vjerujem da su Ukrajinci barem nekoliko Bajraktara rezervisali za njega, a debil je sigurno aktivan na drustvenim mrezama i nosi licni mobitel sa sobom.
Šehidio Amin Ya Rabb 8-)
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#64024 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

sumirprimus wrote: 14/03/2022 19:27

Ookeeej ovo vec postsje simptomaticno.
Hvala velikom bratu i dajdzi dzou nema dalje :bih:
Ne valjaju ove zelene baterije. Mora da su kineske.
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JoseMujica
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#64025 Re: Ukrajina

Post by JoseMujica »

vjeshalica wrote: 14/03/2022 19:47
geralt wrote: 14/03/2022 19:39
Bice Rusima na Kavkazu opet "veselo" ako on suncokreti, a dobre su sanse da hoce. Vjerujem da su Ukrajinci barem nekoliko Bajraktara rezervisali za njega, a debil je sigurno aktivan na drustvenim mrezama i nosi licni mobitel sa sobom.
Šehidio Amin Ya Rabb 8-)
ispravka krivog navoda...suncokretio se kaže :lol: :lol: :lol:
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