Ukrajina

[odmor]

Gledam na HRT, u Hrvatsku vec je stiglo 800 izbjeglica.
Hrvati su dobro pripremljeni, kazu da ce primiti 10.000 hiljada izbjeglica odmah i pozivaju Ukrajince da se zapute prema Hrvatskoj ako ne znaju gdje bi.

Dakle nece ih udarat na granici kao ove migrante sirijske, marokanske, pakistanske (odakle su vec) ?

[daddy-kool]

Jako interesantan thread koji objasnjava napustena ruska vozila - nekad nije u pitanju nedostatak benzina, vec im pucaju gume od neodrzavanja. Takodjer objasnjava zasto se ovo desava na sjeveru Ukrajine, ali ne i na jugu:

Koriste lose kineske gume. Bukvalno smece

[L u c i f e r]

Odlična analiza Putinovog lika i djela i trenutne situacije.

"War brought Vladimir Putin to power in 1999. Now, it must bring him down
Jonathan Littell"

Twenty-two years ago, a vicious war brought Vladimir Putin to power. Ever since, war has remained one of his main tools, which he has used without flinching throughout his reign. Vladimir Putin exists thanks to war, has thrived through war. Let us now hope that a war will finally bring him down.

In August 1999, a then-unknown Vladimir Putin was named prime minister when his predecessor refused to condone a full reinvasion of Chechnya. Putin, however, was ready, and in return for their unconditional support he granted the military a free rein, allowing them to avenge their humiliating 1996 defeat in blood and fire. On the night of 31 December, an ageing and broken Boris Yeltsin stepped down, handing the presidency like a gift to the newcomer. In March 2000, after famously promising to “grease the terrorists even in the outhouse”, Putin was triumphally elected president. With the exception of his four years as prime minister (2008-2012), he has ruled Russia ever since.

I returned to Chechnya as an aid worker when the second war began. In February 2000, I had dinner with Sergey Kovalev, the great Russian human rights defender, and I asked him the question on everyone’s lips: who was this new unknown president? Who was Putin? I still remember Kovalev’s answer: “You want to know who Vladimir Putin is, young man? Vladimir Putin is a lieutenant colonel of the KGB. And do you know what a lieutenant colonel of the KGB is? Absolutely nothing.” What Kovalev meant was that a man who had never even made full colonel was simply a small-minded operative, incapable of thinking ahead more than a move or two. And while Putin, over his 22 years in power, has grown immensely in stature and experience, I still believe the late Kovalev was fundamentally right.

Tactically, however, Putin soon proved brilliant, especially at exploiting the weakness and divisions of the west. It took him years to crush the Chechens and install a puppet regime there, but he succeeded. In 2008, four months after Nato promised a path to accession for Ukraine and Georgia, he gathered his armies for “maneuvers” at the Georgian border and invaded the country in five days, recognizing the independence of two breakaway “republics”. The western democracies mumbled protests, and did practically nothing.

In 2014, when the Ukrainian people, after a bloody revolution, overthrew their pro-Russian president, who had turned his back on Europe fully to align himself with Moscow, Putin swiftly invaded and annexed Crimea, the first overt landgrab in Europe since the second world war. When our leaders, shocked and bewildered, responded with sanctions, he upped the ante and provoked uprisings in Donbas, a Russian-speaking area of Ukraine, using his forces covertly to crush a weak Ukrainian army and carve out two new breakaway “republics”, where a low-level war has simmered ever since.

Thus he began what the French would call his fuite en avant, his “flight forward”. At every step, the west condemned and attempted to punish him, with mild and ineffective measures, in the vain hope of discouraging him. And at every step, he doubled down, and went further.

Putin is a small man, physically, and growing up in postwar Leningrad must have been tough for him. It clearly taught him a lesson: if you are the smaller boy, hit first, hit hard and keep hitting. And the bigger boys will learn to fear you, and will back off. It is a lesson he has taken to heart. The US’s military budget for 2021 was about $750bn, Europe’s combined budget $200bn, and Russia’s about $65bn. Yet he still scares us a lot more than we scare him. It’s the advantage of fighting like a cornered rat, rather than like a pudgy boy gone soft on a diet of Coca-Cola, Instagram and 80 years of peace in Europe.

Putin must have rejoiced when the west, eager to freeze the active conflict in Donbas, quietly allowed Crimea off the discussion table, effectively conceding the illegal annexation to Russia. He saw that while sanctions hurt, they didn’t bite deep, and would allow him to continue building his military and extending his power. He saw that Germany, the greatest economic power in Europe, was unwilling to wean itself off his gas and his markets. He saw that he could buy European politicians, including former German and French prime ministers, and install them on the boards of his state-controlled companies. He saw that even the countries that nominally opposed his moves still kept repeating the mantras of “diplomacy”, “reset”, “the need to normalize relations”. He saw that each time he pushed, the west would roll over and then come fawning, hoping for an ever-elusive “deal”: Barack Obama, Emmanuel Macron, Donald Trump – the list is long.

Putin began murdering his opponents, at home and abroad. When it happened, we squeaked, but it never went further. When Obama, in 2013, callously ignored his own “red line” in Syria, refusing to intervene after Bashar al-Assad’s poison gassing of a civilian neighborhood in Damascus, Putin paid attention. In 2015, he sent his own forces into Syria, developing his naval base in Tartus and gaining a new air base in Khmeimin. Over the next seven years, he used Syria as a testing ground for his military, granting invaluable field experience to his officer corps and honing their tactics, coordination and equipment, all the while bombing and slaughtering thousands of Syrians, and helping Assad to regain control of large swaths of the country.

In January 2018, he began confronting western powers directly in the Central African Republic, sending his Wagner mercenaries there. The same process is now under way in Mali, where the military junta, with Russian support, has just forced the French anti-Isis mission out of the country. Russia is also actively involved in Libya, foiling western attempts to bring peace to the country, and deploying forces along the southern flank of the Mediterranean, in a position to directly threaten European interests. Every time, we protested, flailed, and did exactly nothing. And every time, he took good note.

Ukraine represents the moment when he finally decided to put his cards on the table. He clearly believes he is strong enough to openly defy the west by launching the first land war in Europe since 1945. And he believes it because everything we have done, or rather failed to do over the last 22 years, has taught him that we are weak.

Putin might be a tactical genius, but he is incapable of thinking strategically. Our leaders have refused to truly understand him, but he has also had no interest in understanding us. Completely isolated for the past two years because of Covid, he seems to have become increasingly paranoid and imbued with his own pan-Slavic, neo-imperialist and Orthodox ideology, originally a wholly artificial creation designed to give a thin veneer of legitimacy to his corrupt regime.

He seems to have truly swallowed his own propaganda when it comes to the Ukrainians. Did he believe they would welcome their Russian “liberators”? That they would just surrender? If he did, he was very wrong. The Ukrainians are fighting, and though outnumbered and outgunned, they are fighting hard. Schoolteachers, office clerks, housewives, artists, students, DJs and drag queens are taking up guns and going out to shoot Russian soldiers, many of whom are mere children who have no idea what they are doing there. Ukraine is not giving up an inch of ground, and it seems Putin will not be able to take their cities without leveling them, as he once leveled Grozny and Aleppo. And do not think that just because Kyiv is a “European” city, Putin will shrink from leveling it. Bombing has already started.


After the initial shock, the western democracies – finally! – seem to have understood the existential threat that Putin poses to the postwar world order, to Europe, and to our “way of life” which he so despises. Crushing sanctions are being put into place, no matter what the economic cost to us. Arms are pouring into Ukraine. Germany seems to have realized overnight that it can no longer continue to depend on the kindness of others for its security, and that it needs an army of its own, a real and functional one. Russia is being massively isolated on the international level, and its economy and capacities will be severely diminished.

But this is not enough. As long as Putin remains in power, he will continue to double down, to push further, and to do as much harm as he can. Because he hates the west, and because his power is entirely based on violence: not just the threat, but the systematic use of it. It is the only way he knows how to behave. Can we really believe his nuclear threat is just a bluff? Can we afford to? As long as he continues to rule Russia, no one will be safe. No one.

The only way out of this crisis is to make Putin’s failure in Ukraine so disastrous for Russia and its genuine interests that his own elite will have no choice but to remove him. And for this much more could be done. Our governments seemed focused on punishing the Russian “oligarchs”, but they must understand that Putin has nothing but contempt for them, and doesn’t care a fig for their opinions or their assets; he considers them mere cash cows, there to be milked for his needs.

The western sanctions need to target the people who actually enable Putin’s actions: his entire senior security and administrative apparatus. Not just the few dozen people already targeted, but the thousands of second-tier officials in the presidential administration, the military and the security services. These people are not billionaires, but all are multimillionaires, with much to lose. Ruin the lives of these several thousand people, and let them judge who is to blame. Seize the mansions in England and Spain, forbid the vacations in Courchevel and Sardinia, throw their children unceremoniously out of Harvard and Oxford, and let them stay in Russia, with no way out and no imported goods to spend their stolen money on. Make the cost a real one, a personal one, and let them see if it is worth the price to maintain a deranged, power-hungry tsar on his throne. Let them decide if they want to follow him into the abyss.

Over the past 22 years Russia has fallen prey to a demented, corrupt and totalitarian regime, one we have in many ways facilitated. But it is a great country, one I have loved deeply, and one that has produced wonderful, humane, just men and women. It deserves better than this clique of thieves looting its wealth under the cover of illusory imperial fantasies, and ravaging its neighbors to maintain their grip on total power. Russia deserves freedom, the same freedom Ukraine has painfully obtained over the past three decades. A ceasefire in Ukraine is a vital, urgent first step, and a full Russian withdrawal a second one. But after that, Putin must go.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-chechnya

Najbolji clanak o putku dosad.
Sve 1/1.

Samo fula da je ovo prvi kopneni rat u evropi nakon 45e. Sta ono bi kod nas, teferic?

[Naslovnica]

Evolucija, ipak je četvorka, ali opet Golf

[sumirprimus]

Ne znam.meni su ukri neki miks poljskog i ruskog kad pricaju.
Lakse ruse razumijem nego ukre.

[elcaliente]

Gledam na HRT, u Hrvatsku vec je stiglo 800 izbjeglica.
Hrvati su dobro pripremljeni, kazu da ce primiti 10.000 hiljada izbjeglica odmah i pozivaju Ukrajince da se zapute prema Hrvatskoj ako ne znaju gdje bi.

Dakle nece ih udarat na granici kao ove migrante sirijske, marokanske, pakistanske (odakle su vec) ?

Naravno da nece ovo su ljudi koji bjeze od rata.

[Truba]

Gledam na HRT, u Hrvatsku vec je stiglo 800 izbjeglica.
Hrvati su dobro pripremljeni, kazu da ce primiti 10.000 hiljada izbjeglica odmah i pozivaju Ukrajince da se zapute prema Hrvatskoj ako ne znaju gdje bi.

Dakle nece ih udarat na granici kao ove migrante sirijske, marokanske, pakistanske (odakle su vec) ?

Kakav spin
Rusija izvrsila invaziju maroka?

[Olaf1]

Ima i ovoga....

Ruska Armija dijeli humanitarnu pomoć građanima Melitopola 03.03.2022.

Vidi isto sratko mladić kad je dijelio čokolade djeci pa im poslije poklao roditelje.

[sbdoge]

33 civila poginula, 18 ranjeno

[starii]

pogledajte letove ukrajinskog Antonova An-124, danas je letio na neki aerodrom kod Marseja pa se vatio u Constantu u Rumuniju, sad leti prema Italiji, ima još jedan antonov koji je danas letio, vjerovatno dovlače nove rakete, teško da ukrajinci mogu izgubiti

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... 7#2b01c21f

mislim da bi se ovo moglo zavrišiti tako da putin popije cijanid i poselami se kao slični generali

[Naslovnica]

Ima i ovoga....

Ruska Armija dijeli humanitarnu pomoć građanima Melitopola 03.03.2022.

Vidi isto sratko mladić kad je dijelio čokolade djeci pa im poslije poklao roditelje.

Bukvalno.
Okupirali tuđu zemlju, došli nepozvani, pobili ljudi ko zna koliko, i sada dijele humanitarnu?
Povrać

[llull]

Ima i ovoga....

Ruska Armija dijeli humanitarnu pomoć građanima Melitopola 03.03.2022.

Vidi isto sratko mladić kad je dijelio čokolade djeci pa im poslije poklao roditelje.

Zanimljivo, ostala je i ukrajinska zastava na sred trga niko je ne dira !?

[jeza u ledja]

Cijela prica u Rusiji je da su Ukrajinci isti narod. Ista religija, ista zajednicka historija, haman pa isti jezik, te da su zarobljenici marionetske vlade Zapada. Da ne govorim o tome da je Kijev skoro pa centar ruskog historijskog nasljedja. Nije usporedivo sa odnosom srpskih nacionalista prema ostalima. I definitivno nije usporedivo sa odnosom Rusa prema nekoj tamo Ceceniji.

Neznam bas. Sve sto si rekao mozes preslikati na Balkan ako uporedjujes Rusku i Srpsku nacionalisticku retoriku.

Ista religija = prodali ste staru vjeru
isti jezik = BSH jedan jezik prakticno
zarobljenici marionetske vlade zapada = treba eliminisati visokog predstavnika i OHR
zajednicka historija = prakticno kompletna kolektivna historija Balkana

Pa nije ista religija.

Kako da napisem drukcije - mrznja prema Hrvatima, Bosnjacima i Albancima je bila maksimalna.

Odnos Rusa i Ukrajinaca je mnogo slicniji odnosu Srba i Crnogoraca. Mada naravno i to je samo donekle tacno jer Podgorica za Srbe nije za jbg ko Kijev za Ruse.

Inace kao i svemu drugom, ne treba praviti gresku pa bukvalno shvatati sve sto se desava u svijetu kroz prizmu odnosa na Balkanu, ili ako je jedan dio situacije slican bukvalno sve drugo preslikavati. Postoje slicnosti, ali nije to isto. Mi ovdje na forumu uvijek upadamo u tu zamku.

Moja poenta je da niko u Rusiji nije ocekivao ovakav razvoj situacije, i da njima nije bio cilj razaranje gradskih jezgri, pogotovo ne historijskih gradova. Kad je u pitanju Grozni, ili cak i kad je u pitanju neka zabit u Sibiru, prosjecan Rus eventualno razaranje grada, a i ljudska stradanja, posmatra potpuno drukcije. (Naravno pod uslovom da to do njega dodje, a doci ce ako je razmjera razaranja dovoljno velika.)

[MUNAFIK]

i koji argument bi trebao da pobije ovo što je PM72 napisao? imao si nekoliko puta nadmoćnijeg neprijatelja (usudit ću se reći nekoliko puta nadmoćnijeg nego što je sada Rusija vs Ukraina) i 0 oružja + embargo i uspio si se odbraniti

Pa tadasnja JNA, se ne moze porediti sa danasnjom Rusijom..
a kako je se Posavina a kako srednja Bosna branila..
malo razmisli..

Ukraina ima svoju VOJSKU koja je vec 8 godina u nekom ratu sa Rusijom.

Dakle to je vojska koja je vec pripremljena na rat, to je vojska koja ima upute, pomoc i informacije od najjacih obavjestajnih službi na svijetu i na kraju to je vojska koja ima pomoc sa svih strana u novcu i oruziju.

Sa druge strane i mi smo imali vojsku koja nas je trebala braniti i zvala se JNA.

Ta nasa JNA vojska se mjesecima ukopavala oko gradova pod izgovorom vježbe, ta naša JNA vojska je imala kasarne
u centrima naših gradova i ta naša JNA vojska nas je napala. Napadnuti su civili, dezorijentosani, nespremni, neinformisani CIVILI.

Detonacije i srusene zgrade su jedino isto što dijelimo Ukraina i mi... Sve ostalo je razlicito.

Da smo imali ovaku pomoc( a imali smo embargo) siguran sam da ni jednom cetniku ni ustasi vise ne bi balo na pamet da javno pisnu....

[Truba]

Rusi spominju 200 hrvata u ukrajini kao da ce oni odnijeti prevagu

[L u c i f e r]

pogledajte letove ukrajinskog Antonova An-124, danas je letio na neki aerodrom kod Marseja pa se vatio u Constantu u Rumuniju, sad leti prema Italiji, ima još jedan antonov koji je danas letio, vjerovatno dovlače nove rakete, teško da ukrajinci mogu izgubiti

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... 7#2b01c21f

mislim da bi se ovo moglo zavrišiti tako da putin popije cijanid i poselami se kao slični generali

Prije ce ga neko od njegovih pocastiti maxuzijom u kahvi

Unisti sad ludjak samu rusiju

[sumirprimus]

(AP) -- MOSCOW — Maj. Gen. Andrei Sukhovetsky, the commanding general of the Russian 7th Airborne Division, was killed in fighting in #Ukraine earlier this week.
Kad ste se pitali koga su ukri koknuli.
Ovo je u ratu posteno vrh jebte koknuli im geenerala vdv nije mi zao

[sbdoge]

Naprijed Bayrooooo

[House]

Ovakve ne možeš pobijediti
Šifra: Yugosport tene

Haha

[House]

samo rokaj

[sumirprimus]

Jis malo koga su skinuli

Paratroopers hold more legendary status than any other troops in Russia. They are elite force comprising the Reserve of the Supreme High Command. They are supposed to lead the offensive, being dropped behind the enemy lines and holding the ground before the rest of the army comes

Except they aren't used this way. If you look at this picture you'll understand why. It's just to easy to shoot them all in the air before they reach the ground. That's why in pretty much every conflict - Afghanistan, Karabakh, Georgia, Chechnya they were used as regular infantry https://t.co/MZszRxd3Fn

Since WWII there were only three cases when Russian paratroopers were actually dropped on the enemy from the air:

Hungary 1956
Czechoslovakia 1968
Ukraine 2022

Ergo, paratroopers act as paratroopers only when they don't expect resistance from another regular army
The entire concept of VDV, Russian paratroopers makes total sense if we consider that they are not so much soldiers as the riot police. They don't need to fight other regular armies, they need to suppress disorganised mutinies and protests

Since paratroopers are the shock troops of regime, they absolutely need to look scary to scare off any mutineers. Their entire legendary status is one huge psyop. That's not a secret, really well-trained forces such as those of GRU consider these guys to be fraudsters

For this reason paratroopers absolutely need to be very tall. Physical fitness is not enough, you need to be very big. Why? Because they need to be scary. Because their main weaponry is purely psychological. People should see these big guys and realise resistance is meaningless https://t.co/IFEvFstlnG
Hence the entire "legendary" status, well-developed mythology and iconography. There's no other troops with so developed symbolics, such as paratroopers. Consider this one where Elia the Prophet gets a blue paratrooper beret https://t.co/VXLX90vCnc

Malo o plavim beretkama, vdv to su oni u gostomelu prvi

[sbdoge]

da se odbranite i da vam brak potraje aBd

[Toffee karamela]

Ja se nesto ne obuzdam u sposobnost oligarha da prave drzavne udare. Ako ga ko smakne to ce biti neki likovi iz njegovog uzeg okruzenja u okviru drzavnog aparata.

ili možda udruženo oligarsi i sile tame KGB koje ne vidimo

jedni će obezbijediti opremu a drugi egzekutore

[Labirint]

Rusi spominju 200 hrvata u ukrajini kao da ce oni odnijeti prevagu

Ako su iz Kreševa ili Suice.. Sve je moguće

[elcaliente]

Ma Putin je u ovih 7 dana izgubio bilo kakav kredit kojeg je mogao imati u vecini svijeta, a i u Rusiji. Hem se pokazao kao zlocinac, hem mu vojska ispada amaterska, hem razara "bratsku" Ukrajinu, hem mu ekonomija propada, hem mu propagandna masina u rasulu, hem vlastiti narod a niti vojsku uopste nije spremio na rat.
Ocigledno je mislio da ce sve zavrsiti lagano bez ikakvog otpora i prolivanja krvi.

Kakvo kolosalno nerazumijevanje situacije.

Al tako je to kad si 20+ godina diktator. Izgubis dodir sa stvarnoscu. Vec vidjeno, mnogo puta do sada.

A mozda je istorijski gledano ipak to ono sto cini istorijske licnosti i pravi zemlje velikima.
Hebe im se za ekonomiju i 100 hiljada zrtava ako pokazu svjetu da su spremi na sve i da ce prosititi utjecaj svoje zemlje u regionu.

Kod nas kada bi se sutra zaratili vecina bi se prikljucila 5. Minhenskoj. Zato i nismo kao narod sposobni za velike stavri.
Nego suti, trpi, neka se ne puca i nemoj da izgubim 500 maraka plate.