Afganistan

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Zmaj_od_Panonije
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#326 Re: Afganistan

Post by Zmaj_od_Panonije »

aldinjo wrote: 16/12/2019 20:33
zarko.filip wrote: 16/12/2019 19:25
aldinjo wrote: 16/12/2019 18:48
Gruzijci i Amerikanci. Nevjernici u svakom slučaju.
Pa ako je neko od njih bio musliman jel i o nevjernik?
Čim se bori na strani nevjernika protiv muslimana isti je kao oni.
Aldinjo, sviđa mi se ta logika.

Hajmo je primijeniti na Saudijsku Arabiju, koja je izvor tumačenja Islama kojim se vodiš.

Saudijska Arabija kupuje oružje od Amerike, direktno finansira američku vojnu industriju milijardama dolara (prvenstveno Boeing in Northrop Grumman) nabavkom supersoničnih aviona i krstarećih projektila. Uz to, nikad nije stavila embargo na Izrael ali zato vrlo vješto je izvojevala sankcije protiv Irana.

Dakle, 99% muslimanskoj zemlji više smeta druga 99% muslimanska zemlja (Iran) nego li većinski kršćanska (Amerika) ili većinski jevrejska (Izrael) zemlja.

Da li ti, koristeći ovu logiku, podržavaš Saudijsku Arabiju?
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MorningStar
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#327 Re: Afganistan

Post by MorningStar »

aldinjo wrote: 16/12/2019 20:36
MorningStar wrote: 16/12/2019 19:26
aldinjo wrote: 16/12/2019 18:48
Gruzijci i Amerikanci. Nevjernici u svakom slučaju.
Opet puse s nogu.
Ako imaš psihičkih problema i zdravstveno osiguranje posjeti ubrzo neuropsihijatrijsku bolnicu. To ti je moj iskreni savjet. Izgleda da ti "puše" oko glave.
Moguce - mada ne vjerujem ja u te bolnice i psihologe kontam hodzi ili kakvom ucacu rukje dzine da iscera.
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AleksoMKD
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#328 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... documents/

A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable.

Americke vlasti lagale javnost (ko bi reko) 18 godina.

Posle potrosenih preko 900 milijardi dolara i bezbrojnih ljudskih zivota zakljucak je da je rat u Avganistanu nemoguce dobiti.
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General War
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#329 Re: Afganistan

Post by General War »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 13:10 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... documents/

A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable.

Americke vlasti lagale javnost (ko bi reko) 18 godina.

Posle potrosenih preko 900 milijardi dolara i bezbrojnih ljudskih zivota zakljucak je da je rat u Avganistanu nemoguce dobiti.
ALi zato toliko godina Americke unutrasnje granice mirne...niko nije ni drugacije rekao koliko ja pratim, vec ako vec nece talibani i ostala bagra da se smire...ok, bolje rat ratovati na neprijateljskoj teritoriji nego kod kuce.
aldinjo
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#330 Re: Afganistan

Post by aldinjo »

Zmaj_od_Panonije wrote: 16/12/2019 21:32
aldinjo wrote: 16/12/2019 20:33
zarko.filip wrote: 16/12/2019 19:25

Pa ako je neko od njih bio musliman jel i o nevjernik?
Čim se bori na strani nevjernika protiv muslimana isti je kao oni.
Aldinjo, sviđa mi se ta logika.

Hajmo je primijeniti na Saudijsku Arabiju, koja je izvor tumačenja Islama kojim se vodiš.

Saudijska Arabija kupuje oružje od Amerike, direktno finansira američku vojnu industriju milijardama dolara (prvenstveno Boeing in Northrop Grumman) nabavkom supersoničnih aviona i krstarećih projektila. Uz to, nikad nije stavila embargo na Izrael ali zato vrlo vješto je izvojevala sankcije protiv Irana.

Dakle, 99% muslimanskoj zemlji više smeta druga 99% muslimanska zemlja (Iran) nego li većinski kršćanska (Amerika) ili većinski jevrejska (Izrael) zemlja.

Da li ti, koristeći ovu logiku, podržavaš Saudijsku Arabiju?
Kakva Saudijska Arabija!? Vladajuća elita je zlo koje treba svrgnuti pa se tek onda može očekivati neki pomak u islamskom svijetu. Trenutno stanje u islamskom svijetu je tako da se muslimanskih država vjerovatno niko ne boji, mislim na ove najjače kršćanske države. Jadno i bijedno.
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#331 Re: Afganistan

Post by aldinjo »

MorningStar wrote: 16/12/2019 22:33
aldinjo wrote: 16/12/2019 20:36
MorningStar wrote: 16/12/2019 19:26

Opet puse s nogu.
Ako imaš psihičkih problema i zdravstveno osiguranje posjeti ubrzo neuropsihijatrijsku bolnicu. To ti je moj iskreni savjet. Izgleda da ti "puše" oko glave.
Moguce - mada ne vjerujem ja u te bolnice i psihologe kontam hodzi ili kakvom ucacu rukje dzine da iscera.
Nemaš ti čime kontati. Mozak ti veoma slabo radi.
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MorningStar
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#332 Re: Afganistan

Post by MorningStar »

A tebi je samo do bojanja , puse li puse ispod nogavica.
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AleksoMKD
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#333 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 13:57 ALi zato toliko godina Americke unutrasnje granice mirne...niko nije ni drugacije rekao koliko ja pratim, vec ako vec nece talibani i ostala bagra da se smire...ok, bolje rat ratovati na neprijateljskoj teritoriji nego kod kuce.
Americke unutrasnje granice nikad nisu ni bile u opasnosti od Talibana, a clanak je vrlo dobro objasnio da je uradjeno vise stete nego koristi.

U.S. officials tried to create — from scratch — a democratic government in Kabul modeled after their own in Washington. It was a foreign concept to the Afghans, who were accustomed to tribalism, monarchism, communism and Islamic law.

“Our policy was to create a strong central government which was idiotic because Afghanistan does not have a history of a strong central government,” an unidentified former State Department official told government interviewers in 2015. “The timeframe for creating a strong central government is 100 years, which we didn’t have.”

Meanwhile, the United States flooded the fragile country with far more aid than it could possibly absorb.

One unnamed executive with the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) guessed that 90 percent of what they spent was overkill: “We lost objectivity. We were given money, told to spend it and we did, without reason.”

Many aid workers blamed Congress for what they saw as a mindless rush to spend.

One unidentified contractor told government interviewers he was expected to dole out $3 million daily for projects in a single Afghan district roughly the size of a U.S. county. He once asked a visiting congressman whether the lawmaker could responsibly spend that kind of money back home: “He said hell no. ‘Well, sir, that’s what you just obligated us to spend and I’m doing it for communities that live in mud huts with no windows.’ ”

The gusher of aid that Washington spent on Afghanistan also gave rise to historic levels of corruption.

In public, U.S. officials insisted they had no tolerance for graft. But in the Lessons Learned interviews, they admitted the U.S. government looked the other way while Afghan power brokers — allies of Washington — plundered with impunity.

Christopher Kolenda, an Army colonel who deployed to Afghanistan several times and advised three U.S. generals in charge of the war, said that the Afghan government led by President Hamid Karzai had “self-organized into a kleptocracy” by 2006 — and that U.S. officials failed to recognize the lethal threat it posed to their strategy.


Ili ce Amerikanci vecno ostati u Avganistanu ili ce sve otici u p.m. cim se povuku.
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AleksoMKD
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#334 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

aldinjo wrote: 17/12/2019 14:59 Kakva Saudijska Arabija!? Vladajuća elita je zlo koje treba svrgnuti pa se tek onda može očekivati neki pomak u islamskom svijetu. Trenutno stanje u islamskom svijetu je tako da se muslimanskih država vjerovatno niko ne boji, mislim na ove najjače kršćanske države. Jadno i bijedno.
Kina nije krscanska.

Ali u pravu si, nemaju se cega bojati sve doh Islamske drzave guse nauku.
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#335 Re: Afganistan

Post by aldinjo »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 15:05
aldinjo wrote: 17/12/2019 14:59 Kakva Saudijska Arabija!? Vladajuća elita je zlo koje treba svrgnuti pa se tek onda može očekivati neki pomak u islamskom svijetu. Trenutno stanje u islamskom svijetu je tako da se muslimanskih država vjerovatno niko ne boji, mislim na ove najjače kršćanske države. Jadno i bijedno.
Kina nije krscanska.

Ali u pravu si, nemaju se cega bojati sve doh Islamske drzave guse nauku.
Nisam na Kinu ni mislio. Ali oni šta rade muslimanima u Kini je blago rečeno katastrofalno.
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AleksoMKD
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#336 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

aldinjo wrote: 17/12/2019 15:12 Nisam na Kinu ni mislio. Ali oni šta rade muslimanima u Kini je blago rečeno katastrofalno.
Ono u Kini je davno preslo katastrofu.

I niko ne sme da pisne, ni protestnu notu da ulozi, ma ni da spomene.

Kako god, cim odu Amerikanci pojacava se haos.
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General War
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#337 Re: Afganistan

Post by General War »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 15:03
General War wrote: 17/12/2019 13:57 ALi zato toliko godina Americke unutrasnje granice mirne...niko nije ni drugacije rekao koliko ja pratim, vec ako vec nece talibani i ostala bagra da se smire...ok, bolje rat ratovati na neprijateljskoj teritoriji nego kod kuce.
Americke unutrasnje granice nikad nisu ni bile u opasnosti od Talibana, a clanak je vrlo dobro objasnio da je uradjeno vise stete nego koristi.

U.S. officials tried to create — from scratch — a democratic government in Kabul modeled after their own in Washington. It was a foreign concept to the Afghans, who were accustomed to tribalism, monarchism, communism and Islamic law.

“Our policy was to create a strong central government which was idiotic because Afghanistan does not have a history of a strong central government,” an unidentified former State Department official told government interviewers in 2015. “The timeframe for creating a strong central government is 100 years, which we didn’t have.”

Meanwhile, the United States flooded the fragile country with far more aid than it could possibly absorb.

One unnamed executive with the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) guessed that 90 percent of what they spent was overkill: “We lost objectivity. We were given money, told to spend it and we did, without reason.”

Many aid workers blamed Congress for what they saw as a mindless rush to spend.

One unidentified contractor told government interviewers he was expected to dole out $3 million daily for projects in a single Afghan district roughly the size of a U.S. county. He once asked a visiting congressman whether the lawmaker could responsibly spend that kind of money back home: “He said hell no. ‘Well, sir, that’s what you just obligated us to spend and I’m doing it for communities that live in mud huts with no windows.’ ”

The gusher of aid that Washington spent on Afghanistan also gave rise to historic levels of corruption.

In public, U.S. officials insisted they had no tolerance for graft. But in the Lessons Learned interviews, they admitted the U.S. government looked the other way while Afghan power brokers — allies of Washington — plundered with impunity.

Christopher Kolenda, an Army colonel who deployed to Afghanistan several times and advised three U.S. generals in charge of the war, said that the Afghan government led by President Hamid Karzai had “self-organized into a kleptocracy” by 2006 — and that U.S. officials failed to recognize the lethal threat it posed to their strategy.


Ili ce Amerikanci vecno ostati u Avganistanu ili ce sve otici u p.m. cim se povuku.
Ne od talibana vec od terorista koji su se tamo lijepo smjestili uz odobravanje talibana....to su nikakve pare u poredjenu sta jedan teroristicki napad moze napraviti a kamo li vise njih. Od vojske do USAID-a postoji i bez avganistana.
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#338 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:09 Ne od talibana vec od terorista koji su se tamo lijepo smjestili uz odobravanje talibana....to su nikakve pare u poredjenu sta jedan teroristicki napad moze napraviti a kamo li vise njih. Od vojske do USAID-a postoji i bez avganistana.
Tu se slazemo.

Ali kako god, morat ce se kad tad povuci a tek onda krece krkljanac.
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General War
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#339 Re: Afganistan

Post by General War »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 16:17
General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:09 Ne od talibana vec od terorista koji su se tamo lijepo smjestili uz odobravanje talibana....to su nikakve pare u poredjenu sta jedan teroristicki napad moze napraviti a kamo li vise njih. Od vojske do USAID-a postoji i bez avganistana.
Tu se slazemo.

Ali kako god, morat ce se kad tad povuci a tek onda krece krkljanac.
...nisu se ni iz njemacke povukli...
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AleksoMKD
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#340 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:33 ...nisu se ni iz njemacke povukli...
Nije isto. Ni priblizno.
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General War
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#341 Re: Afganistan

Post by General War »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 16:49
General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:33 ...nisu se ni iz njemacke povukli...
Nije isto. Ni priblizno.
Pa sta mislis ko placa baze po njemackoj i sve ostalo?
aldinjo
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#342 Re: Afganistan

Post by aldinjo »

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:09
AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 15:03
General War wrote: 17/12/2019 13:57 ALi zato toliko godina Americke unutrasnje granice mirne...niko nije ni drugacije rekao koliko ja pratim, vec ako vec nece talibani i ostala bagra da se smire...ok, bolje rat ratovati na neprijateljskoj teritoriji nego kod kuce.
Americke unutrasnje granice nikad nisu ni bile u opasnosti od Talibana, a clanak je vrlo dobro objasnio da je uradjeno vise stete nego koristi.

U.S. officials tried to create — from scratch — a democratic government in Kabul modeled after their own in Washington. It was a foreign concept to the Afghans, who were accustomed to tribalism, monarchism, communism and Islamic law.

“Our policy was to create a strong central government which was idiotic because Afghanistan does not have a history of a strong central government,” an unidentified former State Department official told government interviewers in 2015. “The timeframe for creating a strong central government is 100 years, which we didn’t have.”

Meanwhile, the United States flooded the fragile country with far more aid than it could possibly absorb.

One unnamed executive with the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) guessed that 90 percent of what they spent was overkill: “We lost objectivity. We were given money, told to spend it and we did, without reason.”

Many aid workers blamed Congress for what they saw as a mindless rush to spend.

One unidentified contractor told government interviewers he was expected to dole out $3 million daily for projects in a single Afghan district roughly the size of a U.S. county. He once asked a visiting congressman whether the lawmaker could responsibly spend that kind of money back home: “He said hell no. ‘Well, sir, that’s what you just obligated us to spend and I’m doing it for communities that live in mud huts with no windows.’ ”

The gusher of aid that Washington spent on Afghanistan also gave rise to historic levels of corruption.

In public, U.S. officials insisted they had no tolerance for graft. But in the Lessons Learned interviews, they admitted the U.S. government looked the other way while Afghan power brokers — allies of Washington — plundered with impunity.

Christopher Kolenda, an Army colonel who deployed to Afghanistan several times and advised three U.S. generals in charge of the war, said that the Afghan government led by President Hamid Karzai had “self-organized into a kleptocracy” by 2006 — and that U.S. officials failed to recognize the lethal threat it posed to their strategy.


Ili ce Amerikanci vecno ostati u Avganistanu ili ce sve otici u p.m. cim se povuku.
Ne od talibana vec od terorista koji su se tamo lijepo smjestili uz odobravanje talibana....to su nikakve pare u poredjenu sta jedan teroristicki napad moze napraviti a kamo li vise njih. Od vojske do USAID-a postoji i bez avganistana.
Klasična "šuplja" priča koja se širi u svijetu već skoro dvije decenije. Jadan je onaj ko vjeruje u tu priču i širi istu ovdje na forumu i van njega.
aldinjo
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#343 Re: Afganistan

Post by aldinjo »

MorningStar wrote: 17/12/2019 15:01 A tebi je samo do bojanja , puse li puse ispod nogavica.
Kako ti ne dosadi te maloumnosti ponavljati? Jesi li se registrovao samo da bi trolao i nekoga provocirao? Nisi ni svjestan koliko si dosadan.
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#344 Re: Afganistan

Post by Challenger_ »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 13:10Americke vlasti lagale javnost (ko bi reko) 18 godina. Posle potrosenih preko 900 milijardi dolara i bezbrojnih ljudskih zivota zakljucak je da je rat u Avganistanu nemoguce dobiti.
Prekombinovalo se.



Ko drugom jamu kopa sam u nju pada.

Ispali su glupi k'o *urac.
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#345 Re: Afganistan

Post by Naslovnica »

Odavno nešto bolje nisam pročitao

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... documents/

THE AFGHANISTAN PAPERS A secret history of the war
AT WAR WITH THE TRUTH
U.S. officials constantly said they were making progress. They were not, and they knew it, an exclusive Post investigation found.
By Craig Whitlock Dec. 9, 2019
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#346 Re: Afganistan

Post by Challenger_ »

To je otkriće samo za totalno neupućene.
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#347 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:56 Pa sta mislis ko placa baze po njemackoj i sve ostalo?
Ne ratuje se, ne ginu Americki vojnici, kontraktori niti NATO vojnici u Nemackoj.

Nemacka je sredjena drzava a Avganistan je labavo povezana grupa medjusobno zaracenih plemena sa centralnom "vladom" koja ne kontrolise ni ceo glavni grad i koja se davi u korupciji.

U ruralnim delovima Avganistana ljudi cesto sporove resavaju na Talibanskom serijatskom sudu, tamo jednom presude i kraj spora. Na drzavnim sudovima danas jedan podkupi sudiju a sutra drugi i sporu nikad kraja. Karikiram ali otprilike je to.

Ni iz daleka nije isto.
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General War
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#348 Re: Afganistan

Post by General War »

AleksoMKD wrote: 17/12/2019 17:21
General War wrote: 17/12/2019 16:56 Pa sta mislis ko placa baze po njemackoj i sve ostalo?
Ne ratuje se, ne ginu Americki vojnici, kontraktori niti NATO vojnici u Nemackoj.

Nemacka je sredjena drzava a Avganistan je labavo povezana grupa medjusobno zaracenih plemena sa centralnom "vladom" koja ne kontrolise ni ceo glavni grad i koja se davi u korupciji.

U ruralnim delovima Avganistana ljudi cesto sporove resavaju na Talibanskom serijatskom sudu, tamo jednom presude i kraj spora. Na drzavnim sudovima danas jedan podkupi sudiju a sutra drugi i sporu nikad kraja. Karikiram ali otprilike je to.

Ni iz daleka nije isto.
Bas citam prije neki dan izvjestaj za 50 sedmica, 36 policajaca poginulo na duznosti u Americi...koliko je poginulo u avganistanu americkih vojnika?
Pricamo o "bacenim parama"...ako se ne puca u njemackoj, zasto su tamo?
Ovo zadnje me podsjeca da pricas o Bosni (ili makedoniji) :D
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General War
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#349 Re: Afganistan

Post by General War »

Challenger_ wrote: 17/12/2019 17:12 To je otkriće samo za totalno neupućene.
...a Jesi i upucen sa ruskom pricom na kavkazu?
..ah doduse ne mozes...novinara upucali :D
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#350 Re: Afganistan

Post by AleksoMKD »

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 17:31 Bas citam prije neki dan izvjestaj za 50 sedmica, 36 policajaca poginulo na duznosti u Americi...koliko je poginulo u avganistanu americkih vojnika?
Pritisak javnosti je velik. Amerikanaca je (relativno) malo poginulo u Avganistanu, najvece zrtve trpe Avganistanci.
General War wrote: 17/12/2019 17:31 Pricamo o "bacenim parama"...ako se ne puca u njemackoj, zasto su tamo?
To keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.

A i zadnji put kada su se Nemci sami brinuli o bezbednosti, nisu se lepo igrali sa drugima. Sto je sigurno sigurno je.

General War wrote: 17/12/2019 17:31 Ovo zadnje me podsjeca da pricas o Bosni (ili makedoniji) :D
:lol:
Jos je gore, momentalno "sudimo" bivskoj sefici specijalnog javnog tuzilastva (zaduzenu za borbu protiv korupcije) za reketiranje velikih biznisa, dok su ostali javni tuzioci sebi "legalno" isplacivali bonuse od oko 100.000 EUR po tuziocu godisnje iako nisu nista radili.
Jos ne znamo koliko je to trajalo.
Umesan je i Boki 13. :-)
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