Tsipras učinio više u tri dana, nego Bih u dvadeset godina

[Dozer]

Zapravo, osnovni problem Grcke je nastao kada su se zaduzili vise nego sto su mogli podnijeti, a to su uradili najvise radi gradnje autoputeva na relaciji Solun-Patria-Atina. Mislim da su tu planirali nekih 20-ak miljardi, a na kraju ih je to doslo oko 60-ak milijardi EUR. Od tada, u stvari, kola krecu nizbrdo.

[Captain Ahab]

Zapravo, osnovni problem Grcke je nastao kada su se zaduzili vise nego sto su mogli podnijeti, a to su uradili najvise radi gradnje autoputeva na relaciji Solun-Patria-Atina. Mislim da su tu planirali nekih 20-ak miljardi, a na kraju ih je to doslo oko 60-ak milijardi EUR. Od tada, u stvari, kola krecu nizbrdo.

Ima tu i olimpijada i jos dosta toga...

[Dozer]

Ima, znam, ali ih je najvise "zaklao" autoput jer su lose isplanirali troskove, pogotovo za dionicu Solun-Kozani. Tu dio puta od oko 30-ak km ide kroz planine i morali su napraviti more tunela i vijadukta, a koji su kostali vise od kompletnog ostatka autoputa na dionici Solun-Janjina.
Ili je neko tu uzeo lopatom, a povalio sve redom

[Zeljoooo]

Ima, znam, ali ih je najvise "zaklao" autoput jer su lose isplanirali troskove, pogotovo za dionicu Solun-Kozani. Tu dio puta od oko 30-ak km ide kroz planine i morali su napraviti more tunela i vijadukta, a koji su kostali vise od kompletnog ostatka autoputa na dionici Solun-Janjina.
Ili je neko tu uzeo lopatom, a povalio sve redom

Pa sta je raulima 30-tak milijardi EUR-a nije ih to pokopalo. To je sica u odnosu na 327 milijardi EUR-a koliko vec sad iznosi.

[Dozer]

Jeste, ali mislim da 60 bas i nije tolika sica... Tek s tim su oni presli 300, i to ih je onda zakucalo. Ali, sve je to ionako uradjeno namjerno i ciljano, jer ko ce ti normalan i bez pozadinskig cilja dati dodatni kredit od 60 milijardi, a ti vec duzan 250
S druge strane, oni su prosle godine od turizma imali prihod od skoro jednu milijardu EUR, sto nije nimalo zanemarljivo i sto bi se dobrim planiranjem i usmjeravanjem i te kako moglo iskoristiti.

Pored toga, u 2014. su imali i rast BDP-a od 1,7%, koji je u poredjenju sa padom iz 2012. od skoro -8 drasticna razlika i pokazuje da oni i te kako znaju kada hoce, jer ovo, u stvari, znaci da su od 2012 - 2014 imali rast od skoro 10%, a za 2015. se predvidja rast od dodatnih 3,5%.
Pri tome je bitno znati da je oko 77% njihove ekonomije bazirano na uslugama, dok na industriju otpada oko 19%, od cega na proizvodnju oko 11%, a na poljoprivredu i ribarstvo oko 4%.
Iz ovoga je lijepo vidljivo da tu ima i te kakvog potencijala za sirenje kojecega.

[Captain Ahab]

Jeste, ali mislim da 60 bas i nije tolika sica... Tek s tim su oni presli 300, i to ih je onda zakucalo. Ali, sve je to ionako uradjeno namjerno i ciljano, jer ko ce ti normalan i bez pozadinskig cilja dati dodatni kredit od 60 milijardi, a ti vec duzan 250
S druge strane, oni su prosle godine od turizma imali prihod od skoro jednu milijardu EUR, sto nije nimalo zanemarljivo i sto bi se dobrim planiranjem i usmjeravanjem i te kako moglo iskoristiti.

Pored toga, u 2014. su imali i rast BDP-a od 1,7%, koji je u poredjenju sa padom iz 2012. od skoro -8 drasticna razlika i pokazuje da oni i te kako znaju kada hoce, jer ovo, u stvari, znaci da su od 2012 - 2014 imali rast od skoro 10%, a za 2015. se predvidja rast od dodatnih 3,5%.
Pri tome je bitno znati da je oko 77% njihove ekonomije bazirano na uslugama, dok na industriju otpada oko 19%, od cega na proizvodnju oko 11%, a na poljoprivredu i ribarstvo oko 4%.
Iz ovoga je lijepo vidljivo da tu ima i te kakvog potencijala za sirenje kojecega.

Ima potencijala definitivno, ali se moraju rijesiti korupcije, reformisati poreski sistem, smanjiti birokratiju, liberalizirati pojedine ekonomske segmente i prilagoditi troskove prihodima. Prosla vlada je to jednim dijelom pocela raditi, a sad cemo da vidimo kako ce Syriza nastaviti.

Ja sam i dalje optimista da ce biti dogovor izmedju Grka i eurozone (makar privremeni po starom dobrom obicaju EU). Vec se nesto suska i po novinama o kompromisu, a i berze rastu...

[Captain Ahab]

Opa, Njemacka igra "hardball" u pregovorima s Grckom, ali sutra se tek odlucuje...

"Greece formally requested a six-month extension to its euro zone loan agreement on Thursday, offering major concessions as it raced to avoid running out of cash within weeks, but immediately ran into strong objections from EU paymaster Germany.

Berlin's reaction was hostile, with the finance ministry describing the Greek proposal as "not a substantial solution" as it failed to fulfil conditions of an EU/IMF bailout programme which leftist Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had promised to ditch when he won an election last month."
...

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/02/1 ... KZ20150219

[madner]

Zapravo nije nista obecala u prijedlogu osim da prihvata jos jedan monitoring.

Pokera se igra, javili da nece mjenjat prijedlog. EU moze prihvatiti ili odbiti.

[Captain Ahab]

Vidjecemo sutra.

Realno mislim da su vrlo blizu dogovora (cak ni berze ne reaguju negativno, ocekuje se dogovor), ali po starom dobrom obicaju EU bice u 5 do 12 i uz odredjenu dozu neophodne semanticke muljaze tako da svi mogu reci da su pobijedili te odgadjanje dogovora o spornim tackama uz prihvatanje "principa"...

[Grover]

- Švabenzi..

Link

[jastuk1]

Vidjecemo sutra.

Realno mislim da su vrlo blizu dogovora (cak ni berze ne reaguju negativno, ocekuje se dogovor), ali po starom dobrom obicaju EU bice u 5 do 12 i uz odredjenu dozu neophodne semanticke muljaze tako da svi mogu reci da su pobijedili te odgadjanje dogovora o spornim tackama uz prihvatanje "principa"...

Znači cipiripis kapitulirao. A na klixu slika sa njegovim osmjehom, a pregovore izgubili, jer ni centa dodatnog nisu dobili, a nastavljaju zaduživanje kako je i bilo do sad naredna 4 mjeseca.

Siriza je iznevjerila sva predizborna obećanja. Odnosno, ne sva. Smanjenja i rezanja potrošnje idu, a većih davanja kako su obećavali nema.

[agnostic_front]

I šta se ovo dešava? Zašto Grčka ne ide putem prosperiteta, nego se još više uvlači u ralje neoliberalnog, dužničkog, imperijalističkog, divljeg ropstva? Izgleda da su Rotšildi i Vatikan ipak previše moćni. Nema nam spasa više, sada je svima jasno.

[ronnie]

znači cipiripi se ponaša otprilike kao Milanović u hrvatskoj. jedno se priča prije izbora, drugo se radi nakon izbora. desnica će biti jako zadovoljna.

[Captain Ahab]

Vidjecemo sutra.

Realno mislim da su vrlo blizu dogovora (cak ni berze ne reaguju negativno, ocekuje se dogovor), ali po starom dobrom obicaju EU bice u 5 do 12 i uz odredjenu dozu neophodne semanticke muljaze tako da svi mogu reci da su pobijedili te odgadjanje dogovora o spornim tackama uz prihvatanje "principa"...

Znači cipiripis kapitulirao. A na klixu slika sa njegovim osmjehom, a pregovore izgubili, jer ni centa dodatnog nisu dobili, a nastavljaju zaduživanje kako je i bilo do sad naredna 4 mjeseca.

Siriza je iznevjerila sva predizborna obećanja. Odnosno, ne sva. Smanjenja i rezanja potrošnje idu, a većih davanja kako su obećavali nema.

A nesto ce im malo ublaziti mjere stednje i uslove vracanja duga, taman koliko je i trebalo, tako da mogu biti zadovoljni. Ko je ocekivao vise bio je u zestokoj zabludi...

[Captain Ahab]

I šta se ovo dešava? Zašto Grčka ne ide putem prosperiteta, nego se još više uvlači u ralje neoliberalnog, dužničkog, imperijalističkog, divljeg ropstva? Izgleda da su Rotšildi i Vatikan ipak previše moćni. Nema nam spasa više, sada je svima jasno.

Desava se to da Grci i pored ratoborne retorike i sijanja predizbornih iluzija vrlo dobro znaju gdje su bili prije EU i eura i ne bi htjeli da se vrate tamo.

U Grckoj po anketama preko 70% stanovnistva zeli da zadrzi euro. To je jedna od najvisocijih stopa, ako ne i najvisocija, u Evropi...

[Captain Ahab]

Malo se spinuje ishod dogovora, a zapravo pravi pregovori tek pocinju. Grci vec imaju prvi zadatak da do ponedeljka predloze novu listu reformi koje bi eventualno zamijenile sadasnje...

Greece bailout: Four-month extension in eurozone deal

Greece and eurozone nations have agreed a deal to extend financial aid after bailout talks in Brussels.

Eurozone finance ministers reached an agreement to extend Greece's financial rescue programme by four months.

Dutch finance minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, head of the Eurogroup, said that Athens had pledged to honour all its debts.

"This is a very positive outcome," he told a news conference on Friday night.

"I think tonight was a first step in this process of rebuilding trust. As you know trust leaves quicker than it comes. Tonight was a very important, I think, step in that process," Mr Dijsselbloem said.

In return for the extension, Greece has agreed to present an initial list of reform measures by Monday, he added.

Yanis Varoufakis, the Greek finance minister, said he would work night and day between now and Monday to devise the new list.

Eurozone officials will then review the reforms and see if they go far enough to appease creditors.

If finance chiefs are left unsatisfied, there is still a chance the deal will be scrapped.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31556754

[Captain Ahab]

Dobar spin Syrize - ipak nema nista radikalno kod njih

Greece says euro zone deal won time as cash bled from banks

(Reuters) - Greece's left-wing government insisted on Saturday it had avoided being "strangled" by the euro zone, which agreed in principle to extend a financial rescue deal as nervous savers pulled huge sums from Greek banks.

Athens said the deal struck late on Friday in Brussels should calm Greeks who had feared capital controls might be imposed as a prelude to leaving the euro. But some weary voters questioned what their new leaders had achieved in weeks of testy exchanges with euro zone hardliners led by EU paymaster Germany.

After often ill-tempered negotiations, Greece secured late on Friday a four-month extension to euro zone funding, which will avert bankruptcy and a euro exit, provided it comes up with promises of economic reforms by Monday.

"We won time," said government spokesman Gabriel Sakellaridis. "The Greek economy and the Greek government weren't strangled, as was perhaps the original political plan by centers abroad and within the country," he told Mega TV, without naming the euro zone hawks who forced the government into a climbdown at the Brussels talks.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has won wide support at home for what Greeks see as their leaders finally getting tough instead of going to Brussels cap in hand and taking orders from Berlin. But it was also under intense pressure at home.

About 1 billion euros flooded out of Greek bank accounts on Friday, a senior banker told Reuters, due to savers' fears that the talks would fail and Athens might have to halt such withdrawals or prepare to reintroduce a national currency.

This added to an estimated 20 billion euros ($23 billion) that Greeks have withdrawn since December, when it became clear that the radical Syriza party of Tsipras was likely to win power in last month's parliamentary elections.

Faced with the risk of a chaotic bank run on Tuesday after a long holiday weekend, Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis stressed that the deal should calm savers.

"It is quite clear that the reason why we had a deposit flight was because every day, even before we were elected, Greeks were being told that if we were elected and we stayed in power for more than just a few days the ATMs will cease functioning," he told reporters in Brussels on Friday. "Today's decision puts an end to this fear, to the scaremongering."

Seeking to calm Greeks worried about Monday's public holiday, a source at the European Central Bank said after the Brussels deal that capital controls were out of the question.

Last month's election of Syriza on promises to reverse austerity policies dictated by Greece's EU/IMF bailout program raised huge expectations among the public.

But under Friday's deal with euro zone finance ministers, Athens agreed to an extension of the bailout it had promised to scrap, and accepted oversight by the hated "troika" of officials from the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund, albeit under a new name.

"We went through two months of agony, emptied the banks, to realize we are still a debt colony," 54-year-old electrician Dimitris Kanakis told Reuters. "The paymasters call the shots."

However, the deal did open the possibility of lowering a target for Greece's primary budget surplus, which excludes debt repayments, freeing up funds to ease what Tsipras calls the nation's "humanitarian crisis".

Spokesman Sakellaridis acknowledged that the deal, which is conditional on euro zone ministers accepting Greece's economic reforms plans on Monday, was only a first step. He also admitted the difficulty for a government which is less than a month old in negotiating with heavyweight European ministers.

"These last three weeks were tough weeks for a new government which -- let's not kid ourselves, we're not trying to fool anyone -- hasn't got the relevant experience," he said.

"The real battle begins now," he added. "It is a battle that will be extremely critical for the course of the country over the next few years."

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said Greek politicians used to being in opposition had to wake up to the demands of office.

"Being in government is a date with reality, and reality is often not as nice as a dream," the conservative veteran said, stressing Athens would get no aid payments until its bailout program was properly completed. "The Greeks certainly will have a difficult time to explain the deal to their voters."

Athens must now negotiate a long-term deal with the euro zone before the extension runs out in the early summer.

European Union officials said one reason Greece had to cut a deal now and not delay was that confidential calculations showed the banking system had risked running out of money when it reopens on Tuesday. Extra emergency funding authorized by the ECB on Wednesday would not have been compensated for this.

Tsipras had called for a emergency summit of EU leaders on Sunday if the finance ministers had failed to agree. However, this idea was rejected by European Council President Donald Tusk, increasing pressure for a deal before the banks reopened.

Sources close to the talks said Greece's creditors had lost confidence in Varoufakis and preferred to deal directly with Tsipras. Merkel, who had her first long conversation with Tsipras by phone on Thursday, had been instrumental in ensuring a deal was done, overcoming some resistance from Schaeuble who had taken a hard line from the outset.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/02/2 ... O620150221

[JThomas]

ma ovo je k'o naš i hrvatski SDP.

[Dozer]

Ma sve cool...ali...gdje cu na godisnji ako se ovi sad pokarambase sa EU?!

[KatarinaKosaca]

Ma sve cool...ali...gdje cu na godisnji ako se ovi sad pokarambase sa EU?!

@dozer ti uvijek na pravom mjestu u pogrešno vrijeme Prizivala sam te kao luda na nekoj temi (sad više ne znam kojoj) o pucanju, streljaštvu, pogađanju, nije te bilo.. Idući put se javi kad gdje pođeš

[Dozer]

Pa poslala si mi pp nesreco, i sve ti odgovorih

[KatarinaKosaca]

Pa poslala si mi pp nesreco, i sve ti odgovorih

Ma, nije to, nije oko revolvera. Nego, nešto da li se moglo pogoditi kad se pogodilo itd. Poslije te pp, na temi. Zato uvijek da znamo gdje si i sa kim si
Ne, fakat si falio, ti meni jesi autoritet glede toga, pa me baš zanimalo tvoje mišljenje. Mislim da je tema bila oko atentata (terorizma) u Parizu, ali bilo, prošlo.

[JohnnyS]

Još jedan gol za nas. "Masoni, Vatikan, Jeruzalem" protiv "Grčke, pravednog svijeta i budućnosti, Grovera" 1:0

[KatarinaKosaca]

Još jedan gol za nas. "Masoni, Vatikan, Jeruzalem" protiv "Grčke, pravednog svijeta i budućnosti, Grovera" 1:0

Čekaju se Španija i Portugal. I imamo novi svjetski poredak. Ako masoni dozvole

[Dozer]

Pa poslala si mi pp nesreco, i sve ti odgovorih

Ma, nije to, nije oko revolvera. Nego, nešto da li se moglo pogoditi kad se pogodilo itd. Poslije te pp, na temi. Zato uvijek da znamo gdje si i sa kim si
Ne, fakat si falio, ti meni jesi autoritet glede toga, pa me baš zanimalo tvoje mišljenje. Mislim da je tema bila oko atentata (terorizma) u Parizu, ali bilo, prošlo.

Pa nije mi nista takvo doslo na pp od tebe... Copy/paste pa sibni opet. Sad me zanima sta je bilo