Srpski Terorizam

[Sarajevska Princeza]

Sta je cilj Srpskim Teroristima?

Serb terrorist cells actively operate in many countries. Their aim is to destabilize the United States and the U.S. sponsored Balkan peace proces - all material is taken from various media sources.

SERB TERRORISTS DESTROY RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE IN BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA: TERRORIST MOVEMENT 'GAVRILO PRINCIP' BLAMED

By: Anel Alic (Sarajevo) and Dragan Stanimirovic (Banja Luka)

SARAJEVO / BANJA LUKA -- Unknown assailants on 18 September used explosives to partially destroy a newly rebuilt mosque in the village of Kljuc, in Republika Srpska's eastern Herzegovina region, about 70 miles southeast of the capital, Sarajevo. The mosque, one of 618 destroyed or damaged by Bosnian Serb forces during the 1992-1995 war, was rebuilt only three months ago and officially reopened in June of this year. The mosque was originally built in 1560. Explosives were used to topple the mosque's minaret. An official police investigation has so far turned up no suspects.

The international community and officials from across Bosnia have condemned the attack as an attempt to thwart the process of refugee returns to Republika Srpska and to undermine the country's stability by rocking the already unsteady boat of religious tolerance.

This latest act of terrorism was an attempt to scare refugees off from returning to Republika Srpska. This, as well as earlier attacks on religious objects, carries special weight because religious tolerance is very sensitive.

Representatives from the Party for Bosnia and Herzegovina (SBIH) said in a 19 September press release that "behind this attack is the Chetnik movement called Gavrilo Princip, and this is not the first time they have used terrorism on Bosniak and Croat returnees to Republika Srpska." Gavrilo Princip was the Bosnian Serb terrorist who in 1914 assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the event that set off World War I.

The elderly Tahir Custovic, the first refugee to return to Kljuc in May 2000, said that he arrived at the mosque immediately after the explosion. "The morning after, police officers from Republika Srpska came to the mosque. They, together with journalists from Republika Srpska, were laughing, telling me not to be worried because the entire mosque isn't destroyed." Custovic was one of the initiators and organizers of the mosque's reconstruction after it was destroyed during the war. In a press release, Dusan Antelj, Republika Srpska's religion minister, said that the incident would not disturb the process of rebuilding religious objects of all faiths.

The UN Mission in Bosnia and Herzegovina (UNMIBH) on 20 September condemned the attack on the Kljuc mosque. "The UNMIBH condemns in the strongest terms the willful destruction of the newly reconstructed mosque in Kljuc. The inauguration of this mosque on 8 June 2002 had been a significant event in relation to the return process, as this mosque was the first one to be reconstructed and inaugurated in Eastern Herzegovina," read the mission's statement. The UNMIBH urged police to bring the perpetrators to quick justice and promised to closely monitor the investigation. The mission said it is necessary to send a strong signal that any obstruction of the refugee return process will not be tolerated.

The Office of the High Representative in Bosnia (OHR) likewise condemned the attacks. "This incident is an act of desperation by people who want to take Bosnia and Herzegovina back to the past. Bosnia and Herzegovina will not go back to the past. But the only way to move forward is to vote for the future, and for reform, at the elections," the OHR said in a press release.

"This is a scare tactic and a call for similar acts of violence that are part of the pre-election campaign of parties that conducted genocide and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia".

[grbavica70]

[Michael]

[quote="Sarajevska Princeza"]Sta je cilj Srpskim Teroristima?

[quote]Serb terrorist cells actively operate in many countries. [b]Their aim is to destabilize the United States and the U.S. sponsored Balkan peace proces [/b]- all material is taken from various media sources.

[b]SERB TERRORISTS DESTROY RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE IN BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA: TERRORIST MOVEMENT 'GAVRILO PRINCIP' BLAMED[/b]

By: Anel Alic (Sarajevo) and Dragan Stanimirovic (Banja Luka)

SARAJEVO / BANJA LUKA -- Unknown assailants on 18 September used explosives to partially destroy a newly rebuilt mosque in the village of Kljuc, in Republika Srpska's eastern Herzegovina region, about 70 miles southeast of the capital, Sarajevo. The mosque, one of 618 destroyed or damaged by Bosnian Serb forces during the 1992-1995 war, was rebuilt only three months ago and officially reopened in June of this year. The mosque was originally built in 1560. Explosives were used to topple the mosque's minaret. An official police investigation has so far turned up no suspects.

The international community and officials from across Bosnia have condemned [b]the attack as an attempt to thwart the process of refugee returns to Republika Srpska and to undermine the country's stability by rocking the already unsteady boat of religious tolerance.[/b]

This latest act of terrorism was [b]an attempt to scare refugees off from returning to Republika Srpska. [/b]This, as well as earlier attacks on religious objects, carries special weight because religious tolerance is very sensitive.

Representatives from the Party for Bosnia and Herzegovina (SBIH) said in a 19 September press release that "behind this attack is the Chetnik movement called Gavrilo Princip, and this is not the first time they have used terrorism on Bosniak and Croat returnees to Republika Srpska." Gavrilo Princip was the Bosnian Serb terrorist who in 1914 assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the event that set off World War I.

The elderly Tahir Custovic, the first refugee to return to Kljuc in May 2000, said that he arrived at the mosque immediately after the explosion. "The morning after, police officers from Republika Srpska came to the mosque. They, together with journalists from Republika Srpska, were laughing, telling me not to be worried because the entire mosque isn't destroyed." Custovic was one of the initiators and organizers of the mosque's reconstruction after it was destroyed during the war. In a press release, Dusan Antelj, Republika Srpska's religion minister, said that the incident would not disturb the process of rebuilding religious objects of all faiths.

The UN Mission in Bosnia and Herzegovina (UNMIBH) on 20 September condemned the attack on the Kljuc mosque. "The UNMIBH condemns in the strongest terms the willful destruction of the newly reconstructed mosque in Kljuc. The inauguration of this mosque on 8 June 2002 had been a significant event in relation to the return process, as this mosque was the first one to be reconstructed and inaugurated in Eastern Herzegovina," read the mission's statement. The UNMIBH urged police to bring the perpetrators to quick justice and promised to closely monitor the investigation. The mission said it is necessary to send a strong signal that any obstruction of the refugee return process will not be tolerated.

The Office of the High Representative in Bosnia (OHR) likewise condemned the attacks. [b]"This incident is an act of desperation by people who want to take Bosnia and Herzegovina back to the past. Bosnia and Herzegovina will not go back to the past.[/b] But the only way to move forward is to vote for the future, and for reform, at the elections," the OHR said in a press release.

[b]"This is a scare tactic and a call for similar acts of violence that are part of the pre-election campaign of parties that conducted genocide and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia". [/b][/quote][/quote]


OVO JE SMIJESNO

[Sarajevska Princeza]

Srpski Terorizam = Orthodoxni Dzihad

SERB NATIONALISM IS ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS JIHAD AGAINST MUSLIMS AND CATHOLICS

Orthodox Christian terrorists are engaged in a holy war against Muslims and Catholics in the Balkans. Foreign analysts once thought that nationalism is dead, but extreme nationalism now observed in the former Yugoslavia, Chechnya, and other post-communist regions clearly shows that nationalism remains a powerful force. Serbian nationalism and terrorism is seen as religious in nature...
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Source(s): The New Republic, article: Nationalism and Before: religious, ethnic nationalism in post-communist countries.

In the summer before my freshman year in college, I was assigned, as preparation for the coming heavy-think, E.H. Carr's Nationalism and After. The emphasis was on the "after" since Carr was one of those subtle "historical necessity" apologists for Stalin who thought that the nation-state expressed nothing authentic and that it would soon pass into oblivion. That's what most intellectuals believed then, at least as regards Europe. But, in the de-colonizing countries, instead of the displacement of nations by ever larger units, the heady trend was the process of what was called "nation-building." Graduate students wrote dissertations about this irresistible phenomenon. Foundations summoned the wise to give counsel. Nehru, Nkrumah, Seku Toure, these were the historic nation-builders. You have only to utter the word "Nigeria" or "India"--let alone "Somalia"--to grasp immediately what a failure that enterprise has been, almost everywhere.

I wrote once in these pages that "the great revenge of imperialism was nationalism." It was the modern stage on which antique hatreds were played out, clothed in contemporary costume. But in the industrialized world, where nationalism was long ago supposed to have been supplanted by socialism or some such universalism, it is very much alive, in many places altogether decently, and in others murderously. This is befuddling to the post-national theorists and policymakers. They have seen their most ingeniously crafted designs for betterment and uplift--the European Union, say--frustrated continually by national sentiment.

But, if the nation is a difficult concept for these rationalists to appreciate, the resilience of religion is, quite simply, incomprehensible. But it is religious passion that still exerts the most volatile authority over the minds of men and women. If you cannot understand that, you cannot understand the grim news from Bosnia.

The Serbian war against the Bosnians is a religious war not only because most Bosnians are Muslims but because the Serbs are Orthodox Christians. The best scholarship I have been able to find about Serbian Orthodoxy and Serbian nationalism is the writing of Sabrina Petra Ramet. (A professor of politics at the University of Washington, she is the author of Balkan Babel: Politics, Culture and Religion in Yugoslavia, Cross and Commissar and an essay on Yugoslavia in a book edited by Pedro Ramet, Religion and Nationalism in Soviet and Eastern European Politics.) Ramet discloses some small but telling details. For example, the mug of ex-communist Slobodan Milosevic, who seized power in Serbia eight years ago and turned himself into a nationalist, is carried aloft in Orthodox services as a religious icon, along with the saints.

The post-communist states are particularly prone to religious revanchism, because it was there that God and His servants were most persecuted. It is true that in many countries, Yugoslavia included, certain "patriotic clergy" were indulged by the regime in return for service. But the church was still the most stable refuge for ideological resistance and memory. Serbian nationalism is rich in symbols of the past, humiliating symbols like battles, in Kosovo and Constantinople, lost centuries ago. These were battles lost to infidels as those fought today, however brutally, are victories of the faithful avenging the past.

The Russians have supported Serb aggression and want Bosnia diminished because they, too, are Orthodox Christians, which is also the fuel that fires Moscow's war against the Chechens and others. It is true, of course, that Stalin, who was not motivated by religion at all, inflicted the most excruciating suffering on the Chechens. But in so far as Yeltsin's war against them is a gesture to his ultra-nationalist right, it is also a gesture to the church for which Russification has always meant Christianization. The harmony of church and state was the very definition of pre-communist rule, and Yeltsin has tried to evoke that harmony. And it should not be overlooked that the nostalgists share not only memory but fears. These fears rivet on the Muslim outlands of Russia, geographically close to the Turks and the Persians, old enemies of the Czars and their dreams.

The other Slavic churches (and the states they sway) are, to a greater or lesser extent, all now allied in the Orthodox revanche. The border with Bulgaria, one of these states, is the porous frontier through which international sanctions against Serbia are violated. Even the Greeks are involved, cheering on fellow faithful of the Eastern rite against "the Turks," a phrase applied indiscriminately to virtually all neighboring Muslims.

The Organization of Islamic Conference, composed of fifty-two Muslim member states, has campaigned against the arms embargo but has not attempted to break it. That's it: Bosnia, after all, is not Kuwait, either to Riyadh or, for that matter, to Washington. Turkey, because of ethnic affinities, history and the presence of a small Bosnian lobby, is the one Muslim country that has been significantly touched by sympathy for the Bosnian Muslims. Still, it has a much better record than other Muslim countries. Take Iran: it was caught red-handed selling oil to the Serbs. The Muslims of Bosnia are, in fact, very Europeanized. They drink beer and even abide women in the clergy. They are tolerant, so tolerant that Muslims elsewhere think them heretics. But this has not kept the Serbs from waging a holy war against them. They are the ultimate victims of a jihad: too complicated to be defended, too alien to be tolerated.

[Sarajevska Princeza]

ARMING SADDAM HUSSEIN AGAINST THE UNITED STATES: SERBIAN CONNECTION

- Terrorists Help Terrorists -
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Source(s): International Crisis Group (ICG) Belgium / Regions: Europe, Yugoslavia (Serbia & Montenegro).

Belgrade/Brussels: In a new report, Arming Saddam: The Yugoslav Connection, the International Crisis Group (ICG) shows how arms deals with Iraq, of considerable monetary value, continued following the end of the Milosevic dictatorship and may still be going on today. They raise serious questions about how much has changed in Belgrade since Milosevic's day.

ICG Balkans Program Director Nicholas Whyte said: "The disclosures open a window on the real power structures inside Yugoslav politics. They show that civilian control over the military is still absent, that connections between criminal, military and political elements are extensive and that senior political figures including Federal President Kostunica and Serbian Premier Zoran Djindjic either knew about the sales and did nothing to halt them - or should have known and acted".

The discovery of a letter by NATO (SFOR) troops following a raid in Bosnia's Republika Srpska in October provides recent evidence that a government-controlled firm, Jugoimport-SDPR, offered to help Iraq hide equipment from UN weapons inspectors. The letter, dated 25 September 2002, indicated that Iraq's weapons purchases from the FRY were being routed through Syria. ICG has also received U.S. State Department information that cruise missile-related technology has been sold directly to Iraq and that Yugoslavia has sold 200 tons of weapons stocks to Liberia, another country subject to a UN arms embargo.

ICG's research found no indication that weapons grade nuclear material has been involved in the Yugoslav-Iraq arms trade although the possibility of nuclear technology transfer to third countries requires further exploration. The FRY's stockpile of nuclear fuel rods was moved to a Russian storage site in July 2002 in an operation funded by the U.S. government.

ICG's Serbia Project Director James Lyon said: "The weapons trade with Iraq seems to have followed patterns of cooperation that were well-established prior to the break-up of the former Yugoslavia. The government of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia only ordered the closure of Jugoimport-SDPR office in Baghdad on 23 October 2002 - largely in response to demands from the U.S. and EU. Strong outside pressure will be needed to ensure Belgrade gets to the bottom of this scandal, implements reforms and complies with its international obligations".

OFFICIAL REPORT

The democratic government elected in Belgrade in 2000 did not end the extensive busting of arms sanctions engaged in for many years by its predecessor, the Milosevic dictatorship. The NATO (SFOR) troops who raided an aircraft factory in Bosnia’s Republika Srpska on 12 October 2002 found documents that have begun to strip the veils of secrecy from this significant scandal. From ICG’s own investigations, as well as from those initial revelations and stories that have appeared subsequently in the Serbian press, it appears that arms deals of considerable monetary value continued with Iraq and Liberia despite the change of administrations.

In the case of Iraq, the international community still needs to ascertain or clarify many important details, but it is already apparent that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) has engaged in transactions respecting missile, aviation and technology and equipment that contravene United Nations sanctions. These transactions may have assisted Saddam Hussein’s efforts to develop a primitive cruise missile as well as to repair or preserve his conventional military capabilities with respect to air defence, artillery, and security of bunkers. Weapons grade nuclear material does not appear to have been involved though the possibility of nuclear technology transfer to third countries requires further exploration. Extensive, though less technically sophisticated, Yugoslav arms have also been sold to Liberia which is likewise under a UN arms embargo.

This activity raises serious questions about how much has changed in Belgrade since Milosevic’s day, or even since there was a single, unified Yugoslavia – specifically with regard to respect for international obligations (commitments under arms control conventions as well as UN sanctions), the power of Communist-era networks linking military, industrial and criminal elites, and the willingness or ability of civilian political leaders to control the security sector.

Significant elements of the arms activity, as the NATO raid indicates, were spread across borders to include not only the Serb entity in Bosnia but also the Federation. Likewise, there was Montenegrin involvement. Top authorities, including President Kostunica, Federal Premier Pesic, Serbian Premier Djindjic, Defence Minister Radojevic, the Chief of the General Staff, and the Federal and Serbian Interior Ministers either knew about the sales and did nothing to halt them – or should have known and acted.

The disclosures open a window on the real power structures inside Yugoslav politics. That the special relationship with Iraq (and with Liberia) continued indicates that civilian control over the military is still absent, that connections between criminal, military and political elements are extensive, and that the two strongmen of the post-Milosevic era, Kostunica and Djindjic, have thus far been impotent or unprepared to assert civilian control over the military or remove Milosevic cronies from top positions.

Belgrade’s political leadership and the international community must get to the bottom of the arms scandal itself and attack the fundamental problems it illustrates. The stakes are high. Failure to achieve reform would leave the FRY still a potential threat to regional stability. Moving this important Balkan country toward Euro-Atlantic integration will require the international community to use all the diplomatic and economic tools at its disposal to weaken the extensive remnants of the old guard and strengthen reformers in Belgrade. The time for special treatment for Yugoslavia because it has rid itself of Milosevic has passed.

RECOMMENDATIONS

To the governments of Yugoslavia and Serbia:

1. Make full disclosure of all weapons sales and technology transfers to countries under UN arms embargos, especially Iraq, and assist the international community to get to the bottom of the arms transaction scandal by answering such specific questions as:

(a) whether chemical munitions were sold to Iraq;

(b) what happened to the stocks of chemical munitions removed from Hadzici (Bosnia) in 1992;

(c) whether precursors or manufacturing equipment or technology for chemical weapons were sold to Iraq; and

(d) whether any nuclear materials or technology were sold to third countries prior to the U.S. removal of remaining nuclear materials in July 2002.

2. Reform the security sector completely and rapidly by:

(a) placing the military under control of the Ministry of Defence;

(b) making the Ministry of Defence, the military and military industrial relations fully accountable to parliament and under its transparent control;

(c) requiring transparent parliamentary approval for all foreign weapons sales; and

(d) placing the state-owned arms firm Jugoimport-SDPR under transparent parliamentary control and replacing its entire board of directors.

To the international community:

3. Apply consistent and continuing pressure on Serbian, Montenegrin, and Yugoslav authorities to undertake the requisite reforms, using conditionality in the following areas as a positive tool to help willing politicians:

(a) membership of the Council of Europe;

(b) membership of NATO’s Partnership for Peace;

(c) negotiations on a Stability and Association Agreement with the EU;

(d) Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) with the United States; and

(e) other financial and economic assistance.

4. Consider, if Belgrade shuns reforms and does not comply with its international obligations, suspending bilateral and multilateral aid, including through the international financial institutions (World Bank, IMF, EBRD).

[CiCiban]

jel ovo napredni kurs engleskog?

[Michael]

Princezo, ti mozes oduseviti ovim diletantskim textovima seljake po sarajevu koji nikada nisu ni vidjeli pravi Univerzitet. Za njih je univerzitet kada zaustave profesora na ulici i traze mu da im upise ocjenu u index:))))) Pa onda kazu uvoze strucnjake iz Srbije i Srbijanci idu u pecalbu u BOsnu, naravno kada seljacima treba pokazati sta i kako treba da se radi:))))

Sto se tice tvojih postova, dobro je sto si konacno pocela da navodis "sources" ali kada tvoj "source: kaze da nije mogao nikoga boljeg od jeden jedine osobe, onda mi to govori da je taj student jako lijen. A koliko je pogresan to se lako moze vidjeti iz studije koju je objavio Kongres. Ova studija tice se uloge bosanskih muslimana u napadu na tvoju novu otadzbinu. Ako procitas taj raport znam da ces malo tise da govoris da pripadas tom narodu. Osim toga uloga bosanskih muslimana u dogadjajim u Spaniji koju izgleda svi polagani zaboravljaju je takodje znacajna.

Shvatices jednog dana da jedino sto Srbi zele je da zive u odvojenoj drzavi suverenoj Republici Srpskoj. To je moja drzava, to je moj narod.

Pozdrav svima

P.S.

Naljutis li me sljedeci put napisacu akademski papir o bosanskim muslimanim i objavicu ga:)))) hahahahaha

[JBT]

Michael, slabo si informisan. RS nije srpska drzava. RS je neistorijska tvorevina nastala na genocidu, etnickom ciscenju i krsenjima ljudskih prava. Ta tvorevina je samo prelazni oblik ka BiH bez entiteta. Razlog nastanka je taj da bi u vremenima visokog rizika pruzila koliko-toliko osjecaj sigurnosti nesigurnim ljudima kako se ne bi iselili sa ovih prostora i tako postali teret za EU i USA. Kada te tenzije nestanu, nestat ce i RS-a. Jer ako nisi informisan, na teritoriji sadasnje RS, prije rata, je zivjelo manje od 50% ljudi koje ti nazivas tvojim narodom. Padanjem tenzija dolazi ponovo do uspostavljanja balansa i na teritoriji manjeg entiteta koji je samo dio BiH, i gubi se smisao za postojanje istoga. Gradjanska drzava nam je ne zelja, nego sudbina.
Pozdrav i tebi.

[ding-dong]

Princezo, ti mozes oduseviti ovim diletantskim textovima seljake po sarajevu koji nikada nisu ni vidjeli pravi Univerzitet. Za njih je univerzitet kada zaustave profesora na ulici i traze mu da im upise ocjenu u index:))))) Pa onda kazu uvoze strucnjake iz Srbije i Srbijanci idu u pecalbu u BOsnu, naravno kada seljacima treba pokazati sta i kako treba da se radi:))))

Sto se tice tvojih postova, dobro je sto si konacno pocela da navodis "sources" ali kada tvoj "source: kaze da nije mogao nikoga boljeg od jeden jedine osobe, onda mi to govori da je taj student jako lijen. A koliko je pogresan to se lako moze vidjeti iz studije koju je objavio Kongres. Ova studija tice se uloge bosanskih muslimana u napadu na tvoju novu otadzbinu. Ako procitas taj raport znam da ces malo tise da govoris da pripadas tom narodu. Osim toga uloga bosanskih muslimana u dogadjajim u Spaniji koju izgleda svi polagani zaboravljaju je takodje znacajna.
Shvatices jednog dana da jedino sto Srbi zele je da zive u odvojenoj drzavi suverenoj Republici Srpskoj. To je moja drzava, to je moj narod.

Pozdrav svima

P.S.

Naljutis li me sljedeci put napisacu akademski papir o bosanskim muslimanim i objavicu ga:)))) hahahahaha

haj molim te pojasni mi ulogu Bosnjaka u Spaniji?Ja bih to jako volio znati i garantujem ti da cu svaku tvoju informaciju odmah proslijediti do americke ambasade u Sarajevu.Em sam dobar gradjanin, em dobijam neke povlastice koje mi trebaju.
poslije cemo o ulozi Srba u Hrvatskoj, Bosni,Kosov,Makedoniji,Zairu,saradnji sa kolumbijskim narko kartelima,ruskom mafijom,saradnjom sa bin Ladenom i Cecenima,narodu koji ima demokratiju u krvi do te mjere da cak ubija vlastitog premijera...
sto se tice sna o nezavisnoj Republici Srpskoj ja sam za.s tim da cemo se morati dogovoriti o tome koje dijelove mozete otcijepiti.procesi su naime povratka i inetgracije toliko napredovali da sjeverozapadna Bosna ne ide nikuda,Brcko je ditrikt i svi su se vratili,Srebrenica iz razumljivih razloga ostaje nama,Janja je bosnjacka.Istocni dio RS je pasivan i slabo razvijen stoga necete profitirati sa odvajanjem....
mislim da je jednini nacin kako mozete ostvariti nezavisnost RS da uzmete saku zemlje,stavite u dzep i kupite kartu u jednom pravcu do Srbije.time ce vam biti ostvareni svi ciljevi:u srpskoj ste drzavi,niko vas ne dira i imate dio bosanske zemlje.
i mirna Bosna,bukvalno:)

p.s.kad mi javis sve o terorizmu u bosnjaka za sat vremena ce to stajati na stolu nekoga vrlo vaznog u americkoj ambasadi.zato pozuri molim te,da te ne cekamo previse.

[harisl]

Mishko, sta bi od tih silnih linkova, bre. Pa Princeza je makar stavila neki link da ljudi provjere, a ti... Stvarno si mi smijeshan. A Republika Istocna ne ide nigdje, to i ti sam znas. Valjda si zato toliko isfrustriran.

[grbavica70]

Michael, slabo si informisan. RS nije srpska drzava. RS je neistorijska tvorevina nastala na genocidu, etnickom ciscenju i krsenjima ljudskih prava. Ta tvorevina je samo prelazni oblik ka BiH bez entiteta. Razlog nastanka je taj da bi u vremenima visokog rizika pruzila koliko-toliko osjecaj sigurnosti nesigurnim ljudima kako se ne bi iselili sa ovih prostora i tako postali teret za EU i USA. Kada te tenzije nestanu, nestat ce i RS-a. Jer ako nisi informisan, na teritoriji sadasnje RS, prije rata, je zivjelo manje od 50% ljudi koje ti nazivas tvojim narodom. Padanjem tenzija dolazi ponovo do uspostavljanja balansa i na teritoriji manjeg entiteta koji je samo dio BiH, i gubi se smisao za postojanje istoga. Gradjanska drzava nam je ne zelja, nego sudbina.
Pozdrav i tebi.

Jos jedan klasican primjer kako na pogresnim tezama gradis citave disertacije. Covjek nigdje nije rekao da je RS srpska drzava "nego moja drzava" i "moj narod". Sto se tice broja nesrba koji su nekada zivjeli na toj teritoriji, migrirao je, kao i oni 180 000 Srba iz Sarajeva + svi oni ostali koji su nekada zivjeli u Federaciji. Njih nema pa je zato sada Sarajevo Muslimanski grad, kao sto je sada RS drzava Srba i svih njenih gradjana, i sadasnjih i bivsih. Reci da je RS "moja drzava" ili "drzava moga naroda" nije uopste pogresno, jer mi Federaciju ne smatramo dijelom svoje zemlje, isto kao i vi sto ne smatrate RS dijelom BiH. Svi mozemo zivjeti jedni pored drugih jos milijardu godina a miru, odvojeni, a ako vi i dalje nastavite da cackate, ko zna sta sve mozete iscackati.

[JBT]

I ti si slabo informisan. RS nije drzava, neznalico, to je manji entitet u drzavi BiH. Ako ne vjerujes meni, procitaj malo Daytonski sporazum.
Drugo, ljudi nisu migrirali iz RS-a, oni su pobijeni i nad njima je izvrsen genocid, etnicki ocisceni tj. protjerani a veliki dio je nastradao u konc. logorima ili je kroz njih prosao na putu prema prognanstvu. Ako ne vjerujes meni, procitaj Haske spise.
Trece, nigdje nisam u sluzbenim spisima procitao da je Sarajevo muslimanski grad. Mozda zbog toga jer ono to i nije. Kao sto Banja Luka nije srpski grad. A ni RS nije srpski entitet. Samo ime je kontradiktorno kao sto su bila imena gradova u istoj. Pa su vracenja stara imena. Po toj logici ni RS nece izbjeci ni bolju ni losiju sudbinu. Kad je samo ime u pitanju.
I bezze ti je prijetiti zbog "cackanja". nemas cime da prijetis. Manji si nego sto mislis.

[grbavica70]

Po tim tvojim "Haskim spisima" nijedan zlocin nad Srbima nije pocinjen u toku rata...eto koliko je kredibilan. U Federaciji je takodje bilo ubijanja, progona i etnickog cisenja nemuslimana, i veliki je broj gradova u koje se prezivjeli Srbi vise nikada vratiti nece, poput Zenice, Konjica, Tarcina, Sarajeva, Busovace, Visokog, itd, itd, da ne nabrajama dalje...U svim tim gradovima je pocinjen genocid nad Srbima i nasilno protjerivanje. Pljacka i slilovanja nisu bila samo usputna pojava, nego organizavana planski i detaljno. Za to jos niko nije odgovarao i nemoj mi spominjati VAS Haski sud, osnovan da sudi Srbima i ponekom Hrvatu.

Sarajevo ne figurira nigdje kao "Muslimanski grad", ali on to jeste, i za tebe i za mene, kao i za sve Srbe. Muslimanski grad iz kojeg je protjerano 180 000 Srba, sagradjeno na desetine novih dzamija. Sarajevo u kojem Srbin ne moze da se zaposli i kojem treba 10 godina da vrati svoju prijeratnu imovinu. Banja Luku smatrate "cetnickim" gradom jer je glavni grad RS-a...

Za RS ti niko ne prijeti, nego treba da ti bude jasno da nas je sandzacki hitac odvukao u cetri godine rata i da treba da budete oprezni slijedeci put.
To ko je mali a ko veliki, decko, neces imati prilike da provjeris, posto se sigurno neces vratiti u zemlju ako nedaj boze pukne opet.

[nineac]

Stvarno si decko!
Ja sam imao 5-6 prijatelja u toku rata koji su srbi, druzili se, pusili travu zajedno itd,itd, sve to u toj Zenici u kojoj je "izvrsen genocid nad srbima" a moja komsinica je bila Olga, učiteljica rodom iz Beograda, koju smo mi pomagali, a pomoć je dobivala od Merhameta stoga konju jedan necivilizovani jesil ikad čuo za rječ DOKAZ!

[nineac]

I još nešto, ja RS smatram svojom državom, samo mi naziv smeta, jer nezove se "muslimanska federacija" !
Juce sam bio u bjeljini odakle je sva moja porodica protjerana, a dio nje ostao na mezaru u bjeljini, i vidio sam ogromnu zastavu BiH, stoga neznam o čemu ti pričaš?

[grbavica70]

Stvarno si decko!
Ja sam imao 5-6 prijatelja u toku rata koji su srbi, druzili se, pusili travu zajedno itd,itd, sve to u toj Zenici u kojoj je "izvrsen genocid nad srbima" a moja komsinica je bila Olga, učiteljica rodom iz Beograda, koju smo mi pomagali, a pomoć je dobivala od Merhameta stoga konju jedan necivilizovani jesil ikad čuo za rječ DOKAZ!

Pa od silne trave sto si je duvao, vjerovatni nisi ni vidio da je gro Srba bio pozatvaran, mucen, opljackan, jedan dio pobijen a drugi protjetan prema Ilidzi...Neki su zavrsili u logoru Tarcin...

Samo ti nastavi da duvas travu.

[JBT]

"Po tim tvojim "Haskim spisima" nijedan zlocin nad Srbima nije pocinjen u toku rata...eto koliko je kredibilan."


- To moze biti iz dva razloga. Zlocini ili nisu pocinjeni ili se celi svet urotio protiv takvih kao sto si ti. I ne znam da neko u svijetu osim cetnika ne priznaje taj sud kao kredibilan.


"U Federaciji je takodje bilo ubijanja, progona i etnickog cisenja nemuslimana, i veliki je broj gradova u koje se prezivjeli Srbi vise nikada vratiti nece, poput Zenice, Konjica, Tarcina, Sarajeva, Busovace, Visokog, itd, itd, da ne nabrajama dalje..."


-Kako bi bilo da to malo potkrijepis argumentima. Cudi me da se ti fakti nisu jos pojavili u Haag-u. Za to moze biti tri razloga. Ili toga nije bilo, ili je Haag urota protiv takvih kao ti ili je posta zakazala.



"U svim tim gradovima je pocinjen genocid nad Srbima i nasilno protjerivanje."


-Ako se ne zajebajes onda si bolestan. Ili si neobrazovan. Jer mislim da bi svaki covjek koji je zavrsio srednju skolu trebao znati sta znaci pojam genocid.



"Pljacka i slilovanja nisu bila samo usputna pojava, nego organizavana planski i detaljno. "


-Pljacke je bilo mada bih volio cuti na kom su nivou bile planirane. Za silovanja nesto nisam siguran. Ako imas podatke stavi ih ovdje, a ako mislis da je to previse materijala, zasto ih ne saljes u Haag?


"Za to jos niko nije odgovarao i nemoj mi spominjati VAS Haski sud, osnovan da sudi Srbima i ponekom Hrvatu.



-Znaci opet, ili nije bilo, ili je urota u pitanju ili je do poste.



"Sarajevo ne figurira nigdje kao "Muslimanski grad", ali on to jeste, i za tebe i za mene, kao i za sve Srbe. Muslimanski grad iz kojeg je protjerano 180 000 Srba, sagradjeno na desetine novih dzamija. Sarajevo u kojem Srbin ne moze da se zaposli i kojem treba 10 godina da vrati svoju prijeratnu imovinu. Banja Luku smatrate "cetnickim" gradom jer je glavni grad RS-a...



-Pa sa tvojim mjrilima vrijednosti, Sarajevo je i prije rata bio "muslimanski grad". Zato si vjerovatno i pucao na njega. Nisi ti njega nikad dozivljavao kao svoj. Previse je dzamija u Sarajevu da bi ga ti svojim osjecao. Zbog toga nisi ni bosanac jer bosanska tradicija i kultura je mjesavina vise kultura a najizrazenije su kulturna nasljedja bosanskih Srba, Hrvata i Bosnjaka. I niti jedna ne iskljucuje drugu. Jedna drugu upotpunjuju. Razumijem da se ti u tome ne pronalizis. Zato si u Francuskoj. Sarajevo je bilo i ostalo multietnicko. Sa tobom a jos vise bez tebe.
Onih 180 000 "protjeranih" nije bilo protjerano. Oni su sami otisli. Zasto? Pitaj njih. Niko ih nije tjerao. Ja mislim da se tu radi o odnosu prema multikulturnim vrijednostima.
U Sarajevu zive i rade ljudi iz svih rasa, nacija, vjera i profesija. Od rukovodecih mjesta pa do komunalnih preduzeca. Kazem ti, nedovoljno si informisan.
Banja Luka nije ni srpski ni cetnicki grad. Banja Luka je bosanski grad. Kao sto je Barcelona spanski. Opet si neiformisan. Posljedica neiformisanosti su predrasude. Koje ne mogu biti argumenti. Nigdje na svijetu. Razmisli malo o tome. Mozda te to natjera da pocnes nesto citati.
I zasto me svrstavas u dijasporu? Ne mozes prihvatiti da ovakvi kao ja zive u Sarajevu? U "muslimanskom gradu". I jos kad ti kazem da su svi takvi. U mom okruzenju. Bez obzira na boje i tonove.
Poradi malo na predrasudama.

[grbavica70]

U Hagu, u nekoj fioci, skuplja prasinu preko 50 kg dokaznog materijala protiv Alije vec godinama...Ista stvar je bila i sa Franjom...Umre Franjo, umre i Alija...jer se pet godina otezalo hoce li se ili nece podici optuznica za zlocine protiv Srba...Ista stvar je i sa drugim zlocincima koji su zavrsili u Hagu...Iako je dokazni materijal predat godinama ranije, trebalo se dobro nacekati pa da prvi Musliman bude uhapsen i isporucen. I taman kada se mislilo da ce za progon Srpskog stanovnistva, kao izlocine pocinjene u Konjicu i Celebicima neko biti osudjen, glavnooptuzenog pusytaju na slobodu...zasto ? Jer se preko njega, a na osnovu komandne odgovornosti, vrlo lako moglo doci do Alije, protiv kojeg vec imao 50 kg dokaza. Na kraju, cuvara logora, silovatelja i ubicu pustaju na slobodu, uprkos svjedocantvima na stotine logorasa....

U Hagu su vec odavno poslati svi dokazi, mnogi drugi se i dan danas sakupljaju a mnogi nikada nece biti prikupljeni, jer nema vise nikoga zivog da svjedoci...

Hag je politicka institucija osovan da Zapad opere svoje krvave ruke u Jugoslovenskoj drami, zbog umjesanosti u produzetak rata, krsenja embarga na oruzje, dolazak mudzahedina, bombardovanje osiromasenim uranijumom, trgovine oruzjem, ubijanja civila i djece, izazivanja rata i kojecega jos drugog...mrsko mi pisati sve njihove zlocine.

Prema tome, dokazi postoje, ti i ja ovdje se ne moramo ubjedjivati ni u sta jer nema svrhe, a ako mislis da ja ne hodam sa visoko dignutom glavom, sto vrlo cesto ponavljas "da se necega bojim" ili " da se krijem", grdno se varas. Jednom se prije rata htjeli "natjerati" Srbe da se osjecaju krivim "za nesto" pa vam nije uspjelo, budi siguran da sada ima jos manje sanse da uspije. Imao sam ja vec prilike, i to ne vec jednu, da pricam sa Muslimanima Sarajeva o svemu pa i o ratu.
Ti ljudi i danas misle o meni sto su mislili i ranije a dokaz koliko sam "cetnik" je vjerovatno i taj sto su njih trojica Novu 1999-u proslavili kod mene u Beogradu a ja u Sarajevu 2000 i 2001-e...Za razliku od mnogih drugih, bar pred sobom nisam imao lazove i licemjere, nego iskrene i normalne ljude, koji su meni ispricali sta se sve desavalo u Sarajevu a ja njima na Grbavici...Jesmo li danas manje prijatelji zbog toga ? Nismo. Jesmo li trazili da se svi izvinemo svakome zbog zlocina za koje nismo odgovorni ? Nismo...Nastavljamo tamo gdje smo bili stali, kada je zlocinacka ruka ubila Nikolu Gardovica i gurnula nas u cetverogodisnji rat.

[zili]

Druže JBT, mani se ćorava posla, teška je to demagogija. Baš me zanima kako reaguju grabavičini francuzi tamo u Parizu kad ga pitaju odakle je, a on kaže "I am from Република Српска"

Ne znam ko se još ovje bavi tim pitanjima.

grbavice70, imam za tebe nagradno pitanje, slušaj pažljivo:

Ko je gladniji: penzioner u SA ili penzioner u BL?

[Alfons Kauders]

Po tim tvojim "Haskim spisima" nijedan zlocin nad Srbima nije pocinjen u toku rata...eto koliko je kredibilan. U Federaciji je takodje bilo ubijanja, progona i etnickog cisenja nemuslimana, i veliki je broj gradova u koje se prezivjeli Srbi vise nikada vratiti nece, poput Zenice, Konjica, Tarcina, Sarajeva, Busovace, Visokog, itd, itd, da ne nabrajama dalje...U svim tim gradovima je pocinjen genocid nad Srbima i nasilno protjerivanje. Pljacka i slilovanja nisu bila samo usputna pojava, nego organizavana planski i detaljno. Za to jos niko nije odgovarao i nemoj mi spominjati VAS Haski sud, osnovan da sudi Srbima i ponekom Hrvatu.

Sarajevo ne figurira nigdje kao "Muslimanski grad", ali on to jeste, i za tebe i za mene, kao i za sve Srbe. Muslimanski grad iz kojeg je protjerano 180 000 Srba, sagradjeno na desetine novih dzamija. Sarajevo u kojem Srbin ne moze da se zaposli i kojem treba 10 godina da vrati svoju prijeratnu imovinu. Banja Luku smatrate "cetnickim" gradom jer je glavni grad RS-a...

Za RS ti niko ne prijeti, nego treba da ti bude jasno da nas je sandzacki hitac odvukao u cetri godine rata i da treba da budete oprezni slijedeci put.
To ko je mali a ko veliki, decko, neces imati prilike da provjeris, posto se sigurno neces vratiti u zemlju ako nedaj boze pukne opet.

Sandzacki hitac ? To mislis na svata Gardovica cini mi se, e pa to se desi u proljece 1992. a napad na selo Ravno u Hercegovini - jesen 1991. Mnogo si pametan decko. Istina u Sarajevu je sagradjeno nekoliko dzamija (dok narod nema posla, al o tome drugom prilikom), a koliko je sruseno dzamija u seher Banja Luci ? Cinjenica je da smatras da je ICTY "nas" sud, rijec je dakle o nekoj zavjeri zar ne ? Ma jest, care napravili Bosanci sud da sudi samo Srbima, pazi sta pricas, zvacu ja gore nase ljude, pa cemo te strpat u celiju u roku od pola sata Bas si lik, svaka ti cast !

[LudoALudjiJA]

grbavice70, imam za tebe nagradno pitanje, slušaj pažljivo:

Ko je gladniji: penzioner u SA ili penzioner u BL?

zili, pogresno adresirano
to je pitanje za golubove, a ne za grbavicu

[Alfons Kauders]

grbavice70, imam za tebe nagradno pitanje, slušaj pažljivo:

Ko je gladniji: penzioner u SA ili penzioner u BL?

zili, pogresno adresirano
to je pitanje za golubove, a ne za grbavicu

...golubove i tombolu

[ding-dong]

U Hagu, u nekoj fioci, skuplja prasinu preko 50 kg dokaznog materijala protiv Alije vec godinama...Ista stvar je bila i sa Franjom...Umre Franjo, umre i Alija...jer se pet godina otezalo hoce li se ili nece podici optuznica za zlocine protiv Srba...Ista stvar je i sa drugim zlocincima koji su zavrsili u Hagu...Iako je dokazni materijal predat godinama ranije, trebalo se dobro nacekati pa da prvi Musliman bude uhapsen i isporucen. I taman kada se mislilo da ce za progon Srpskog stanovnistva, kao izlocine pocinjene u Konjicu i Celebicima neko biti osudjen, glavnooptuzenog pusytaju na slobodu...zasto ? Jer se preko njega, a na osnovu komandne odgovornosti, vrlo lako moglo doci do Alije, protiv kojeg vec imao 50 kg dokaza. Na kraju, cuvara logora, silovatelja i ubicu pustaju na slobodu, uprkos svjedocantvima na stotine logorasa....

U Hagu su vec odavno poslati svi dokazi, mnogi drugi se i dan danas sakupljaju a mnogi nikada nece biti prikupljeni, jer nema vise nikoga zivog da svjedoci...

Hag je politicka institucija osovan da Zapad opere svoje krvave ruke u Jugoslovenskoj drami, zbog umjesanosti u produzetak rata, krsenja embarga na oruzje, dolazak mudzahedina, bombardovanje osiromasenim uranijumom, trgovine oruzjem, ubijanja civila i djece, izazivanja rata i kojecega jos drugog...mrsko mi pisati sve njihove zlocine.

Prema tome, dokazi postoje, ti i ja ovdje se ne moramo ubjedjivati ni u sta jer nema svrhe, a ako mislis da ja ne hodam sa visoko dignutom glavom, sto vrlo cesto ponavljas "da se necega bojim" ili " da se krijem", grdno se varas. Jednom se prije rata htjeli "natjerati" Srbe da se osjecaju krivim "za nesto" pa vam nije uspjelo, budi siguran da sada ima jos manje sanse da uspije. Imao sam ja vec prilike, i to ne vec jednu, da pricam sa Muslimanima Sarajeva o svemu pa i o ratu.
Ti ljudi i danas misle o meni sto su mislili i ranije a dokaz koliko sam "cetnik" je vjerovatno i taj sto su njih trojica Novu 1999-u proslavili kod mene u Beogradu a ja u Sarajevu 2000 i 2001-e...Za razliku od mnogih drugih, bar pred sobom nisam imao lazove i licemjere, nego iskrene i normalne ljude, koji su meni ispricali sta se sve desavalo u Sarajevu a ja njima na Grbavici...Jesmo li danas manje prijatelji zbog toga ? Nismo. Jesmo li trazili da se svi izvinemo svakome zbog zlocina za koje nismo odgovorni ? Nismo...Nastavljamo tamo gdje smo bili stali, kada je zlocinacka ruka ubila Nikolu Gardovica i gurnula nas u cetverogodisnji rat.

bravo papane!
extra si iznijeo svoje vidjenje medjunarodnog prava.

haj sad naocale i citaj ovo:

Pred kraj istrage o događajima koji su se odigrali u zatvoru/logoru Čelebići u toku nedavnog sukoba u Bosni i Hercegovini, tužilac je, na osnovu informacija o kretanju nekoliko pojedinaca koji se smatraju osumnjičenima u vezi s ovim događajima, uputio dva odvojena zahtjeva Njemačkoj i Austriji za privremeno hapšenje Zejnila Delalića odnosno Zdravka Mucića, u skladu sa pravilom 40 Pravilnika. U skladu s ovim zahtjevima, obojica osumnjičenih uhapšeni su 18. marta 1996. Nakon toga, 19. marta 1996, tužilac je podigao optužnicu kojom se Zejnil Delalić, Zdravko Mucić, Hazim Delić i Esad Landžo terete za teške povrede Ženevskih konvencija i kršenja ratnih zakona ili običaja u vezi sa djelima za koja se tvrdi da su počinjena u zatvoru/logoru Čelebići. Optužnicu je potvrdio sudija Claude Jorda 21. marta 1996, a nalozi za hapšenje Hazima Delića i Esada Landže, zajedno sa nalozima za njihovu predaju proslijeđeni su vlastima Bosne i Hercegovine. Nalozi za hapšenje Zejnila Delalića i Zdravka Mucića, zajedno sa nalozima za njihovu predaju upućeni su vlastima Njemačke odnosno Austrije.

31. Poslije toga, 9. aprila 1996, Zdravko Mucić je prebačen iz Austrije u Pritvorsku jedinicu Ujedinjenih nacija u Hagu (u daljem tekstu: Pritvorska jedinica), a nakon toga, 8. maja 1996, Zejnil Delalić je prebačen iz Njemačke. Hazima Delića i Esada Landžu je vlada Bosne i Hercegovine 13. juna 1996. predala Sudu radi pritvora.
32. Pred sudom se prvi pojavio Zdravko Mucić, zastupan po g. Robertu Rhodesu, i to dana 11. aprila 1996, pred Pretresnim vijećem II u sastavu: sudija Gabrielle Kirk McDonald, predsjedavajući sudija, sudija Lal Chand Vohrah i sudija Rustam S. Sidhwa. Poslije toga, 9. maja 1996, Zejnil Delalić prvi put se pojavio pred Sudom zastupan po gđi Edini Rešidović. Hazim Delić i Esad Landžo prvi put su se pojavili pred sudom 18. juna 1996, zastupani po g. Salihu Karabdiću odnosno g. Mustafi Bračkoviću. Tim optužbe je predvodio g. Eric Östberg, koji je nastupio zajedno sa gđom Theresom McHenry. Svi optuženi su se izjasnili da nisu krivi ni po jednoj optužbi te su do suđenja zadržani u pritvoru u Pritvorskoj jedinici.

33. Tekući predmet je prvi predmet pred Međunarodnim sudom u kome je više optuženih zajedno optuženo i zajedno im se sudilo. Suđenje je trajalo 19 mjeseci, a dolazilo je do brojnih odgađanja iz raznih razloga. Preko 1.500 dokaznih predmeta je prihvaćeno kao dokaz u toku suđenja, a engleska verzija transkripta suđenja ima preko 16.000 stranica. Strane u predmetu su takođe podnijele opsežne pretpretresne podneske i završne podneske [8]. Čitav postupak je vođen uz simultano prevođenje na engleski, francuski i bosanski/hrvatski/srpski. Pretresno vijeće[9] je moralo da se pozabavi nizom proceduralnih i materijalnih pitanja bez presedana vezanih za suđenje. Mada ne predstavljaju sveobuhvatnu analizu, najznačajnija od ovih pitanja su izložena u rezimiranom obliku u daljem tekstu, i to po problematici, pa stoga nisu nužno po hronološkom redoslijedu.

1. Pitanja vezana za optužnicu
34. U skladu sa pravilima 72 i 73 Pravilnika,[10] trojica optuženih su podnijeli preliminarne podneske o nedostacima u formi optužnice, osporavajući između ostalog, navodno nejasne i neosnovane navode i kumulativne optužbe.[11] Zdravko Mucić je uložio podnesak slične prirode, tražeći od Pretresnog vijeća da naloži Tužilaštvu da dostavi sve pojedinosti o optužbama iznijetim u optužnici.[12] Pretresno vijeće je odbacilo sve te podneske,[13] poslije čega su Hazim Delić i Zejnil Delalić tražili dopuštenje da ulože žalbu na odluku Pretresnog vijeća. Međutim, tročlano Žalbeno vijeće je odbacilo obje te molbe za ulaganje žalbe.[14]

35. Nakon što je otkrilo da su optužbe koje se navode u tačkama 9 i 10 optužnice zasnovane na pogrešnim informacijama, Tužilaštvo je tražilo dopuštenje od Pretresnog vijeća da povuče ove tačke u skladu sa potpravilom 50(A).[15] Pretresno vijeće je odobrilo taj zahtjev "pod uslovom da se niti jedan od četvorice optuženih kasnije ne tereti optužbama navedenim u pomenutim tačkama. "[16] Nakon toga, Tužilaštvo je tražilo odbacivanje tačaka 40 i 41 optužnice na osnovu toga što je relevantni svjedok odbio da svjedoči na suđenju u prilog tim tačkama,[17] a Pretresno vijeće je i taj zahtjev odobrilo.[18]


kad zavrsis klikni na link
http://www.un.org/icty/bhs/cases/mucic/ ... 81116b.htm

papan...

[ragib]

he Muslims of Bosnia are, in fact, very Europeanized. They drink beer
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[Ahmed.ibn.Fahalan]

Džaba tebi to sve jarane što si mu napis'o jer će ti on u slijedećem postu tražiti dokaze