Simon Wiesenthall - Sunflower

Rasprave na razne teme... Ako ne znate gdje poslati poruku, pošaljite je ovdje.

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Svemirski_Jebach
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Simon Wiesenthall - Sunflower

Post by Svemirski_Jebach » 04/11/2006 00:54

Maloprije citam ovaj tekst i moram ga podijeliti sa drugima...Mislim da je vrlo primjenjiv na situaciju u BiH i sve ono sto se desavalo.

Prepisacu najvazniji dio teksta sa engleskog, ne da mi se prevoditi (izvinite)

Razgovor autora i majke poginulog SS vojnika koji mu je priznao zlocine koje je pocinio i koji je od njega, kao jevreja, trazio oprost.

"In this district we always lived with the Jews in a very peacefull fashion. We are not responsible for their fate.

Yes, said I. That is what they all say now. And I can well believe it of you, but there are others from whom I won't take it. The question of Germany's guilt may never be settled. But one thing is certain: no German can be shrug off the responsibility. Even he has no personal guilt, he must share the same of it. As a member of a guilty nation he cannot simply walk away like a passenger from the tramcar, whenever he choses. It is the duty of Gemrnas to find who is guilty. And the non-guilty must dissociate themselves publicly from the guilty....

Today the world demand that we forget and forgive the heinous crimes committed against us. It urges that we draw the line and close the account as if nothing had ever happened.

We who suffered in those dreadfull days, we who cannot obliterate the hell we endured, are forever being advised to keep silent.
Well, I kept silent when a young Nazi, on his deathbed, begged me to be his confessor. And later when I met his mother I again kept silent rather than shatter her illusions about her dead son's inherent goodness. And how many bystanders kept silent as they watched Jewish men, women and children being led to the slaughterhouse of Europe?...

There are many kinds of silence. Indeed it can be more eloquent than words and it can be interpreted in many ways...

Was my silence at the bedside of the dying Nazi right or wrong? This is a profound moral question that challenges the conscience of reader of this episode, just as much as it once challenged my heart and my mind."

The crux of the matter is, of course, the question of forgiveness. Forgetting is something that time alone takes care of, but forgiveness is an act of volition, and only the sufferer is qualified to make the decision.

You...can mentally change places with me and ask yourself the crucial question, "What would I have done?"


Dio koji govori o krivnji zlocinaca i pripadnika istog naroda je vrlo primjenjiv za BiH. Nazalost, za razliku od nijemaca koji su priznali odgvornost za zlocine niti u Srbiji niti u RS-u ne postoji slican osjecaj (izuzev pojedinaca - casnih).

Sljedece sto je zanimljivo je dio o onima koji su sutjeli dok su nacisti vodili zrtve u smrt. Kakva je njihova odgvornost? koliko ih je bilo u BiH koji se mozda nisu slagali s onim sto se desavalo ali nisu ni reagovali jer su se bojali za sebe i za svoj komfor?

I na kraju...sta bi ste vi uradili da dodjete u situaciju gdje vam vojnik na smarti priznaje zlocine koji je uradio nad vasim narodom i trazi oprost kako bi mogao mirno umrijeti? Da li bi vi oprostili?


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PipiDugaDevetka
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Re: Simon Wiesenthall - Sunflower

Post by PipiDugaDevetka » 04/11/2006 04:27

Svemirski_Jebach wrote:...Sljedece sto je zanimljivo je dio o onima koji su sutjeli dok su nacisti vodili zrtve u smrt. Kakva je njihova odgvornost? koliko ih je bilo u BiH koji se mozda nisu slagali s onim sto se desavalo ali nisu ni reagovali jer su se bojali za sebe i za svoj komfor?...

Taoci tuđe krivice? Prihvataju tu poziciju. Nema krešenda i konačnog razrješenja. Zašto? Ni meni nije jasno, mora da na forumu ima neko ko se razumije u psihologiju i psihijatriju grupe, povelike grupe, pa da nam objasni.

Svemirski_Jebach
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Post by Svemirski_Jebach » 04/11/2006 07:53

vrlo je zanimljivo posmatrati psihologiju sa one ali i sa ove strane Drine.

inace, svakom bi preporucio da procita navedeno djelo. Siguran sam da se mnogo toga moze nauciti. Umjesto pljuvanja po svima.

bonsai
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Post by bonsai » 04/11/2006 10:07

Mislim da je taj vojnik i priznao zlocin jer je bio na samrti,inace? Da je bio tako fin da samovoljno prizna,nebi taj zlocin ni pocinio.Njemci su priznali i trazili oprost zato sto su bili pritisnuti,sa jedne strane rusima a sa druge amerima a srbija i rs nisu utoj poziciji.

Svemirski_Jebach
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Post by Svemirski_Jebach » 05/11/2006 01:00

ne mogu vjerovat da ljude vise interesuju teme na kojima se supljira nego nesto ozbiljno...cini mi se da sam precijenio ovaj forum

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horns&drums
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Post by horns&drums » 05/11/2006 01:01

Nisi precijenio jarane nego si ga prerastao

Svemirski_Jebach
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Post by Svemirski_Jebach » 05/11/2006 02:15

moze bit i to... ;) al hajd...

freak_with_a_laptop
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Post by freak_with_a_laptop » 05/11/2006 02:26

Kad je tema o etici i moralu - mojne spominjat Simon Wiesenthala, hoce mi zlo od tog pseudo-moraliste. Procitaj malo o izjavama Wiesenthal-Centre na pitanje Palestine i Izraela - pa onda ga recituj. Sranje - sui generis.

Vozdra_123
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Re: Simon Wiesenthall - Sunflower

Post by Vozdra_123 » 05/11/2006 03:07

Svemirski_Jebach wrote:I na kraju...sta bi ste vi uradili da dodjete u situaciju gdje vam vojnik na smarti priznaje zlocine koji je uradio nad vasim narodom i trazi oprost kako bi mogao mirno umrijeti? Da li bi vi oprostili?


ne bih mu dao tu satisfakciju
dovoljno mi je sjetiti se videa skorpiona... :x

da se osoba koja nije nista uradili i cutila je dok su se masakri desavali oko nje proba izvinuti.. mozda i bih dao taj oprostaj

Vozdra_123
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Post by Vozdra_123 » 05/11/2006 03:10

bonsai wrote:Mislim da je taj vojnik i priznao zlocin jer je bio na samrti,inace? Da je bio tako fin da samovoljno prizna,nebi taj zlocin ni pocinio.Njemci su priznali i trazili oprost zato sto su bili pritisnuti,sa jedne strane rusima a sa druge amerima a srbija i rs nisu utoj poziciji.


u neku ruku si upravu, ali kako objasniti njemacko ponasanje danas?
interesantno je vidjeti tu njemacku kolektivnu krivicu u sadasnjim generacijama
zabavljao sam se sa jednom svabicom i ona je bila fascinirana jevrejima i njihovom istorijom

Vozdra_123
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Post by Vozdra_123 » 05/11/2006 03:11

Svemirski_Jebach wrote:ne mogu vjerovat da ljude vise interesuju teme na kojima se supljira nego nesto ozbiljno...cini mi se da sam precijenio ovaj forum


nit' si prvi ni posljednji

Svemirski_Jebach
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Post by Svemirski_Jebach » 05/11/2006 03:14

Mislim da ni ja ne bih oprostio...

a za Wiesenthala, ne bih ulazio u pitanje palestina-izrael, nego govorim o zlocinima nad jevrejima.

Zlocin koji su nacisti pocinili je jos nenadmasen u historiji i on zaista ima pravo govoriti o toj tragediji, kao zrtva.

zzzzz
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Post by zzzzz » 05/11/2006 03:15

The Simon Wiesenthal Center is an international Jewish human rights organization dedicated to repairing the world one step at a time. The Center’s multifaceted mission generates changes through the Snider Social Action Institute and education by confronting antisemitism, hate and terrorism, promoting human rights and dignity, standing with Israel, defending the safety of Jews worldwide, and teaching the lessons of the Holocaust for future generations.

Ne znam samo jeli ovo cionisticka organizacija ili drustvo za zastitu ljudskih prava, nekako mi to dvoje ne ide pod ruku.

Svemirski_Jebach
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Post by Svemirski_Jebach » 05/11/2006 04:22

gdje si ti ovdje vidio cionizam? :?

ja znam da postoje zionisticka drustva ali ovo nije jedno od tih...na kraju, nije ni bitno to nego cinjenica da su ljudi trazili zlocince svugdje. i nasli neke.

kamo srece da je u BiH bilo tako...

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