San'a manuscript - druga verzija Kur'an-a

[El malagueño]

This is, probably, the most embarrassing event to Muslims in the 1,400-year history of Islam.

The Great Mosque of Sana’a is one of the oldest Mosques in Islamic history. The date of building goes back to 6th year of Hijrah when Muhammad entrusted one of his companions to build a Mosque at Yemen, which was extended and enlarged by Islamic rulers from time to time.

In 1972, during the restoration of this Great Mosque (heavy rain had caused the west wall of the Mosque to collapse), laborers, while working in a crown space between the structure’s inner and outer roofs, stumbled upon an amazing grave-site, which they did not realize at that time. Mosques do not accommodate graves, and this site contained no gravestone, no human remains and no funeral relics. It contained an unappealing mountain of old parchment and paper documents, damaged books and individual pages of Arabic text, fused together by rain and dampness for over a thousand years.

The ignorant laborers gathered up the manuscripts, pressed them carelessly into some 20 potato sacks, and set them aside on the staircase of one of the Mosque’s minarets, where they were locked away. The manuscripts would have been forgotten once again, were it not for Qadhi Isma’il al-Akwa, then the President of Yemeni Antiquities Authority, who realized the potential importance of the find. Al-Akwa sought international assistance in examining and preserving the fragments, because no scholar in his country was capable of working on this rich find. In 1977, he managed to interest a visiting non-Muslim German scholar, who in turn persuaded the German government to organize and find a restoration project.

Soon after the project began, it became clear that the “paper grave” is a resting place for, among other things, tens of thousands of fragments from close to a thousand different codices of the Quran. Muslim authorities during early days cherished the belief that worn out and damaged copies of the Quran must be removed from circulation leaving only the unblemished editions of the scripture for use. Also such a safe place was required to protect the books from looting or destruction if invaders come and hence the idea of a grave in the Great Mosque in Sana’a, which was a place of learning and dissemination of the Quran and was in existence from the first century of the Hijrah.

Restoration of the manuscript has been organized and supervised by Gerd R. Puin of Saarland University, Germany. Puin is a renowned specialist on Arabic calligraphy (the study of fine and artistic handwriting) and Quranic paleography (the study of ancient writing and documents). For ten years he extensively examined those precious parchment fragments. In 1985, his colleague H. C. Graf V. Bothmer joined him.

Carbon-klix puts the origin of some of the parchments to 645–690 CE, while calligraphic klix has pointed to their origin in 710–715 AD. Some of the parchment pages seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries, i.e. Islam’s first two centuries, perhaps the oldest Quran in existence.

In 1984, the House of Manuscripts (Dar al Makhtutat) was founded close to the Great Mosque, as part of a cooperation project between the Yemeni and German authorities. An enormous endeavor began to restore the Quranic fragments. Between 1983 and 1996, approximately 15,000 out of 40,000 pages were restored, specifically 12,000 fragments on parchment and manuscripts klix back to the seventh and eighth centuries.

Until now, only three ancient copies of the Quran are found. The one preserved in the British Library in London, dates from the late seventh century and was thought to be the oldest one. But the Sana’a manuscripts are even older. Moreover, these manuscripts are written in a script that originates from the Hijaz—the region of Arabia where prophet Muhammad lived, which makes them not only the oldest to have survived, but one of the earliest authentic copies of the Quran ever. Hijazi Arabic is the script (Makkan or Madinan), in which the earliest Quran was written. Although these pieces are from the earliest Quran known to exist, they are also palimpsests (manuscripts on which the original writing has been effected for re-use).

The rare style of fine and artistic handwriting in the manuscripts had fascinated both Puin and his friend Bothmer, but more surprise was awaiting them. When these ancient Qurans were compared with the present standard one, both of them were stunned. The ancient texts were found to be devastatingly and disturbingly at odds with the existing form. There are unconventional verse ordering, small but significant textual variations, different orthography (spelling) and different artistic embellishment (decoration).

It shattered the orthodox Muslim belief that the Quran, as it has reached us today, is “the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God”. It means Quran has been distorted, perverted, revised, modified and corrected, and textual alterations had taken place over the years purely by Human hands.

The sacred aura surrounding this Holy Scripture of Islam, which remained intact for some 14 centuries is gone with this astonishing discovery and the ‘core belief’ of 1.4b Muslims that the Quran is the eternal, unaltered word of God is now clearly visible as a great hoax, a downright falsehood.

Not only this, the Quranic claim that nobody can alter the words of God is also a fake. Quran is supposed to be, in the words of Guillaume (1978, p. 74), “The holy of holies. It must never rest beneath other books, but always on top of them, one must never drink or smoke when it is being read aloud, and it must be listened to in silence. It is a talisman against disease and disaster”. Muslims call the Quran the ‘Mother of Books’, and believe that no other book or revelation can compare (Caner & Caner, 2002, p 84). However, it’s all gone now. The end-result of whole Islamic struggle of the last fourteen centuries is a big zero.

As if it is not enough, many manuscripts showed the sign of palimpsests, i.e., versions very clearly written over even earlier washed off versions. The underwriting of palimpsest is, of course, often difficult to read visually, but modern tools, such as ultraviolet photography, can highlight them. It suggests that the Sana’a manuscripts are not only variants to the present version of the Quran, but the Sana’a manuscripts themselves were variants of earlier version, re-written on the same paper. It means, Allah’s claim that original text is preserved in heaven on golden tablets (Q 56: 77–78; 85:21–22), which none can touch except angels is also a fairy-tale.

Puin, after extensively studying these manuscripts, came to the conclusion that the text is actually an evolving text rather than simply the word of God as revealed in its entirety to Muhammad (Warraq, 2002, p. 109).

http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/78-s ... islam.html



Vec duze vrijeme ova tema mene intrigira. Naime, sve ono sto sam nekad mislio da znam, i u sta sam vjerovao, tj. da je Kur'an nepromjenjiva Bozija rijec, ovim otkricem je manje-vise poljuljano. Kad razmisljam u vjeri, cesto mi je na umu da mozda danasnja verzija Kur'an-a i nije 100% 'prava'.

Kolika je vjerovatnoca da je Kur'an zaista ocuvan u primarnom obliku? Kolika je sansa da su danasnji tekstovi izmjenjeni, da su neke sure izbacene, ili dodate itd. i kolika je vjerovatnoca da su te eventualne izmjene od velikog znacaja? Na primjer, sjecam se jedne emisije na National Geographic prije par godina u kojoj je bilo rijec o ovom manuscriptu. Zbog nedostatka diakriticnih simbola u ovoj verziji Kur'an-a prica o pokrivanju zene bi se mogla skroz drukcije interpretirati. NE ZELIM RECI DA ZBOG TOGA TA OBAVEZA NE VAZI I NE ZELIM DA SADIM SUMNJU MEDJU MUSLIMANIMA I MUSLIMANKAMA. Zelim samo da izmjenimo misljenja o znacaju ovog manuscripta. Na osnovu ovog otkrica (ako pretpostavimo da nije fake) bi se svasta moglo zakljuciti.

Volio bih da cujem vase misljenje.

Pozdrav.

[theTruePath]

Onako iskreno,ja sumnjam u dosta informacija oko toga,,ovo je rekeo covjek koji se time bavi

"So many Muslims have this belief that everything between the two covers of the Qur'an is Allah's unaltered word. They like to quote the textual work that shows that the Bible has a history and did not fall straight out of the sky, but until now the Qur'an has been out of this discussion. The only way to break through this wall is to prove that the Qur'an has a history too. The Sana'a fragments will help us accomplish this."

drugim rijecima....biblija ima mahanu,hajmo je naci i kuranu

Medjutim,cak i da je sve autenticno to ne dokazuje nista,jer niti postoji toliko velika razlika..a ujedno,mnogi su zapamtili Kuran,moguce da je neko negdje zapisao i napravio malu gresku.Mi se drzimo one koju je sastavio hazreti Osman r.a jer je on medju 4 najbliza ashaba poslanikova a.s

I garancija Kurana su "zive knjige"-hafizi,,ne papirna knjiga,moguce da je neko negdje nekad pogrijesio,ali nije moguce da je on u pravu a "lanac hafiza" koji ne prestaje od smrti Muhammeda a.s nije

[MUNAFIK]

Zato imamo HAFIZE koji cuvaj KUR'AN od dana spštanja na zemlju pa do danas...Ne na papirima nego u glavama i srcima!!!

[theTruePath]

Zato imamo HAFIZE koji cuvaj KUR'AN od dana spštanja na zemlju pa do danas...Ne na papirima nego u glavama i srcima!!!

Da bas sam i ja na to prvo mislio,taj lanac nikada nije prekidan u citavoj historiji Islama

Ali evo sad nadjoh .Ovo je rekao covjek koji je otkrio u Sani manuskript(navodno ce izaci njegova knjiga gdje ce se baviti ovim topikom):

"The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni Qur'anic fragments do not differ from those found in museums and libraries elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not touch the Qur'an itself, but are rather differences in the way words are spelled."

[sustinca]

I mene je to jelo kad sam saznala i trazila sam jako dugo informacije o tome,pa sam dosla do toga da oni govore isto 30 godina a nikakvog dokaza.Dajte te greske,iznesite ih na vidjelo!

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/

Ovaj kratak video od 15 minuta sve objasnjava pogledajte:

[SugarCookie]

Prelistao sam malo komentare ispod članka, i svidio mi se pravo ovaj.

"I cannot understand why people are saying that Muslims are afraid of this San'a Manuscaript. They should not be. If this proves to be the Authentic Quran, why not? I am a Muslim and have done extensive studies in the Quran and Hadith and I was indeed fascinated by the findings of Dr. Puin and Dr. Bothmer. I cannot understand why majority of the Muslim Scholars are opposing this and doing their best to halt the studies on this valuable document. I for one, would be indeed glad to know the truth. I would like to follow the real truth and not somebody's concocted versions. I understand that these manuscripts have been copied onto CD ROMS. If there is a possibility, I would like to have a copy."

Dugo sam se i ja pitao je li bilo moguće zadržati Kur'an čitav, onakav kakav je bio u vrijeme za i poslije poslanstva. Subjektivno smatram da ovo otkriće nikako ne može biti loše, ili kako je u članku navedeno, ponižavajuće za muslimane. Ako se stvarno zadesi slučaj, da su određene cjeline kod pronađenoga drugačije, nego u Kur'anima, kojim danas raspolažemo, onda bi to trebali gledati kao nevjerovatnu milost, gdje nam se daje prilika da ispravimo greške predaka. Ako se pokaže da se današnji egzemplari ne razlikuju od otkrivenog, onda ostajemo pri temeljima vječnosti Kur'ana, sa još jačim dokazom.

[harač]

na žalost u ovim istraživanjima ima previše islamske mitomanije, a malo nezavisnih analiza; ustvari, tamo gdje ih ima prijeti im se smrću, što je i očekivano. bio je svojevremeno zanimljiv serijal na history

[kritichar]

na žalost u ovim istraživanjima ima previše islamske mitomanije, a malo nezavisnih analiza; ustvari, tamo gdje ih ima prijeti im se smrću, što je i očekivano. bio je svojevremeno zanimljiv serijal na history

idi beri trešnje dok nisu prošle

[El malagueño]

Realno meni je tesko vjerovat u taj 'lanac hafiza' koji su na pamet od rijeci do rijeci pamtili Kuran. Neznam da li ste ikad isprobali slijedece: sjednete sa 10 ljudi u krug. Ispricas pricu prvom do sebe. On istu pricu isprica onom do sebe itd. Poslij
10 puta ispadne skroz druga prica :s bez obzira od morala ucesnika. Zamisli sad to u periodu par decenija? Poznato je da za vrijeme kodifikacije Kurana postojalo vec razlicitoh verzija koje su unistene. Pored toga i kodifikacija je cdna. Ako su hafizi sve znali na pamet; zasto nije napisan Kuran po logici tj hronologicno, nego

[El malagueño]

Na osnovu duzine sura?

[Phosphorus]

Stvarno čovječe imaš problema ako podatke sa ove stranice uzimas kao ispravne...
Neka 3 otpadnika od vjere su se našla pametovati...

About us
We are a group of Muslim apostates, who have left Islam out of our own conviction when we discovered that Islam is not a religion at all.

I da te pitam poznaješ li ti ijednog hafiza? Poznaješ li adabe hafiza?
Časni Kur'an ne može svako naučiti napamet, i nije to priča da na jedno uho da uđe a na drugo da izađe...

[славянин]

Stvarno čovječe imaš problema ako podatke sa ove stranice uzimas kao ispravne...
Neka 3 otpadnika od vjere su se našla pametovati...

About us
We are a group of Muslim apostates, who have left Islam out of our own conviction when we discovered that Islam is not a religion at all.

I da te pitam poznaješ li ti ijednog hafiza? Poznaješ li adabe hafiza?
Časni Kur'an ne može svako naučiti napamet, i nije to priča da na jedno uho da uđe a na drugo da izađe...

A zasto ne moze ?

[pogresan smjer]

Sura Al-Hijr, deveti ajet : "Mi, uistinu, Kur'an objavljujemo i zaista ćemo Mi nad njim bdjeti!"

Poznato je da su poslanici imali svoje mu'džize kojima su dokazivali svoje poslanstvo. Mu'džize su odgovarale vremenu u kojem su se poslanici pojavljivali. U vrijeme Muhammeda s.a.v.s, arapi su bili neprikosnoveni pjesnici, a Kur'an je napisan u stilu koji ni jedan pjesnik nije mogao niti će moći oponašati.

Pa Allah dž.š u suri Al-Baqarah, u dvadeset trećem ajetu kaže :

"A ako sumnjate u ono što smo Mi objavili robu Svome, donesite vi jednu suru sličnu tome; pozovite i božanstva vaša, ako istinu go­vo­rite."

[El malagueño]

Sura Al-Hijr, deveti ajet : "Mi, uistinu, Kur'an objavljujemo i zaista ćemo Mi nad njim bdjeti!"

Poznato je da su poslanici imali svoje mu'džize kojima su dokazivali svoje poslanstvo. Mu'džize su odgovarale vremenu u kojem su se poslanici pojavljivali. U vrijeme Muhammeda s.a.v.s, arapi su bili neprikosnoveni pjesnici, a Kur'an je napisan u stilu koji ni jedan pjesnik nije mogao niti će moći oponašati.

Pa Allah dž.š u suri Al-Baqarah, u dvadeset trećem ajetu kaže :

"A ako sumnjate u ono što smo Mi objavili robu Svome, donesite vi jednu suru sličnu tome; pozovite i božanstva vaša, ako istinu go­vo­rite."

Nije ti sporno. Pitanje je sad koliko je moguce da je Kur'an stvarno neizmjenjen kako se o uvijek zna tvrditi.

[El malagueño]

Stvarno čovječe imaš problema ako podatke sa ove stranice uzimas kao ispravne...
Neka 3 otpadnika od vjere su se našla pametovati...

About us
We are a group of Muslim apostates, who have left Islam out of our own conviction when we discovered that Islam is not a religion at all.

I da te pitam poznaješ li ti ijednog hafiza? Poznaješ li adabe hafiza?
Časni Kur'an ne može svako naučiti napamet, i nije to priča da na jedno uho da uđe a na drugo da izađe...

Kako nemoze? Pa sta rad muslimani sirom svijeta nego bubaju na pamet sure? A kuran je zbirka sura. Naucis ih sve i to je to postanes hafiz. Naravno da treba napora ali je puno lakse kad jos znas arapski i znas sta govoris a ne ko nasi hafizi nabubali jasin a pojma nemaju sta recituju

[theTruePath]

Dakle vidim nisi procitao,radi se o mushafu koji je napisan razlicitim stilom i uz to postoje dodatci

Mushaf nije isto sto i Kuran,u Mushafu ne moraju ni sure biti poredane kako treba,i postoje komentari autora

[theTruePath]

Nije ti sporno. Pitanje je sad koliko je moguce da je Kur'an stvarno neizmjenjen kako se o uvijek zna tvrditi.

Moguce je onoliko koliko je Allah mocan

[El malagueño]

Nije ti sporno. Pitanje je sad koliko je moguce da je Kur'an stvarno neizmjenjen kako se o uvijek zna tvrditi.

Moguce je onoliko koliko je Allah mocan

E jbg sad

[sustinca]

Omer r.a je zakopao ostale verzije,jer su se na pocetku na listicima zapisivale sure ,postoji par mogucnosti ako uzmemo u obzir da je ovo Kuran s bitnim razlikama

1.To je jedan od tih Kurana,jer je stariji od Omera r.a
2.Posto je nadjen zakopan ispod zemlje,namece se da su i ti ljudi sami znali da je to Kuran s greskom

A sad,ako malo dublje potrazimo detalje o ovome saznamo ovo:

1.NISTA nema dodato ni oduzeto
2.Razlika je u tome sto su neki ajeti pomjesani i sto se ne pise istim stilom,ali poznato je da se arapski jezik moze pisati razlicitim stilovima

[theTruePath]

To je to,obicni Musaf

Muslimani bi trebali biti sretni sto su pronasli ovo

[theTruePath]

Nije ti sporno. Pitanje je sad koliko je moguce da je Kur'an stvarno neizmjenjen kako se o uvijek zna tvrditi.

Moguce je onoliko koliko je Allah mocan

E jbg sad

Sta ti je bolan,radi se o PRVIM generacijama,koji su zivot bili spremni dati za islam,Kuran je i danas muslimanima kao zjenica oka,mozes misliti koliko je tad bio

[harač]

Nije ti sporno. Pitanje je sad koliko je moguce da je Kur'an stvarno neizmjenjen kako se o uvijek zna tvrditi.

Moguce je onoliko koliko je Allah mocan

E jbg sad

[graue_maus]

[theTruePath]

Slazem i sa sugar cookie(ja sve mislio ti zensko ) ,ali meni ovo ne zadaje ni malo sumnje jer vidim da nema nista novo sto i Puin sam kaze,dakle nista nije dodato ili oduzeto

Kad bi nasli recimo ono sto su nasli krscani u Grckoj(cak) ili Egiptu,i Palestini gdje im se ponistava fundament,kad bi to nasli kod muslimana,ja znam da bi prestao vjerovati :S bilo bi to tragicno i tesko,ono s cim zivis koje ti daje utjehu kad ti je tesko-to nije tacno Ali to se nece dogoditi upravo zbog hafiza,prve generacije ashaba su svi bili hafizi,do Osmana,a vec za vrijeme Omera r.a je sastavljen Kuran kojeg znamo sad(i pronadjen je)

[SugarCookie]

Pročitah jednom da hafiz u osnovi nije predstavljao nekoga ko zna čitav Kur'an napamet, već bilo ko, ko zna dio Kur'ana. Ispravite me, ako griješim.

Ako je ovo tačno, onda je pitanje koliko je hafiza bilo, koji su nosili ovaj epitet, kao što se danas nosi; izričito, ako znate čitav Kur'an napamet.

@TruePath
Slatko me nasmija. Šta me je to predstavljao kao žensko, da pazim ubuduće?