Question: Ilic and Kezman

Midas1970 · Post by **Midas1970** » 04/09/2006 17:37

My posting of this morning got rejected and deleted, I can't understand why !!... May be I should provide a little more detail about my question: Ex-Yugoslav soccer players have always been very popular in Turkey. However, about a week ago, a big debate started: Galatasaray (Istanbul) fans accused Mateja Kezman of Fenerbahce (Istanbul) of being a Chetnik because of his "3 finger salute". In retailation, Fenerbahce fans found pictures of popular Galatasaray player Sasa Ilic giving the same salute. Now there is a heated debate over whether this salute represents a racist stand or if it is simply a victory salute.... Any comments ??? Thanks

dr.iver · Post by **dr.iver** » 04/09/2006 17:42

two fingers making letter "V" are a symbol for victory...3 fingers are simbol of war crimes done by cetnici.

SherlockHolmes · Post by **SherlockHolmes** » 04/09/2006 17:43

Midas1970 wrote:My posting of this morning got rejected and deleted, I can't understand why !!... May be I should provide a little more detail about my question: Ex-Yugoslav soccer players have always been very popular in Turkey. However, about a week ago, a big debate started: Galatasaray (Istanbul) fans accused Mateja Kezman of Fenerbahce (Istanbul) of being a Chetnik because of his "3 finger salute". In retailation, Fenerbahce fans found pictures of popular Galatasaray player Sasa Ilic giving the same salute. Now there is a heated debate over whether this salute represents a racist stand or if it is simply a victory salute.... Any comments ??? Thanks

.. and they are very much right at that. Kezman is known as an orthodox fundamentalist and ultra nationalist. Presumably due to his name he has a thing or two to prove to his fans.

Regardless of the origins of the three-finger salute, it cannot be seen as anything else than inflamatory and, given the recent ex-Yu history, fascist. Don't forget that the Serb ultra nationalists, being quite stupid, still see Turkey and Bosniaks (OK, Croats, Americans, and the others too) as the source of all their current problems.

The only thing which surprises me there is that Kezman, being who he is, would choose to play in Turkey in the first place. Money talks louder than hollow words, I presume.

everybody hurts · Post by **everybody hurts** » 04/09/2006 17:47

Please stop with this "cetnici" topics, ok?

SherlockHolmes · Post by **SherlockHolmes** » 04/09/2006 17:48

everybody hurts wrote:Please stop with this "cetnici" topics, ok?

zasto?

everybody hurts · Post by **everybody hurts** » 04/09/2006 17:54

SherlockHolmes wrote:
everybody hurts wrote:Please stop with this "cetnici" topics, ok?
zasto?

Eto zato, nervira me ovaj turcin pravo...dosao se ovdje raspitivati, ccc...

SherlockHolmes · Post by **SherlockHolmes** » 04/09/2006 17:57

pa sta fali? ovaj forum valjda i za to sluzi...

everybody hurts · Post by **everybody hurts** » 04/09/2006 18:00

SherlockHolmes wrote:pa sta fali? ovaj forum valjda i za to sluzi...

pa nista, ko mu brani, ja samo kazem, ima srpske forume, pa nek tamo ide......

inace, svaka ti cast na odlicnom engleskom...

slimmersex · Post by **slimmersex** » 04/09/2006 18:02

Midas1970 wrote:My posting of this morning got rejected and deleted, I can't understand why !!... May be I should provide a little more detail about my question: Ex-Yugoslav soccer players have always been very popular in Turkey. However, about a week ago, a big debate started: Galatasaray (Istanbul) fans accused Mateja Kezman of Fenerbahce (Istanbul) of being a Chetnik because of his "3 finger salute". In retailation, Fenerbahce fans found pictures of popular Galatasaray player Sasa Ilic giving the same salute. Now there is a heated debate over whether this salute represents a racist stand or if it is simply a victory salute.... Any comments ??? Thanks

most people posting on this forum think that all serbs are chetniks - unless they publicly renounce their serbdom and declare themsevles "bosnian".

mala-i · Post by **mala-i** » 04/09/2006 18:04

ja sam našla link o tri prsta.al šta ću kad je na srpskom i to još ćirilici.
a zašto je turčin došao upravo na ovaj forum?
he he

pa Cerić ga uputio garant

SherlockHolmes · Post by **SherlockHolmes** » 04/09/2006 18:05

uh, sto bi ga na srbijanskim forumima fino docekali

everybody hurts · Post by **everybody hurts** » 04/09/2006 18:06

sad ce jos izbiti prepirka o nacionalnostima u BiH i na engleskom

SherlockHolmes · Post by **SherlockHolmes** » 04/09/2006 18:06

slimmersex wrote:
Midas1970 wrote:My posting of this morning got rejected and deleted, I can't understand why !!... May be I should provide a little more detail about my question: Ex-Yugoslav soccer players have always been very popular in Turkey. However, about a week ago, a big debate started: Galatasaray (Istanbul) fans accused Mateja Kezman of Fenerbahce (Istanbul) of being a Chetnik because of his "3 finger salute". In retailation, Fenerbahce fans found pictures of popular Galatasaray player Sasa Ilic giving the same salute. Now there is a heated debate over whether this salute represents a racist stand or if it is simply a victory salute.... Any comments ??? Thanks
most people posting on this forum think that all serbs are chetniks - unless they publicly renounce their serbdom and declare themsevles "bosnian".

Uhmmmmmmm, no. Please try again.

Shoshana · Post by **Shoshana** » 04/09/2006 18:11

slimmersex wrote: most people posting on this forum think that all serbs are chetniks - unless they publicly renounce their serbdom and declare themsevles "bosnian".

What people wants from Serbs is to publicly denounce crimes commited for the sake of that "serbdom". You don't find it only natural?

Edin H. · Post by **Edin H.** » 04/09/2006 18:16

It's a Serbian custom to kiss three times i.e. so it is custom to lift three fingers as a sign of victory.

I think it's something to do with a holy trinity, but I don't know enough about the Orthodox religion to be able to precisely clarify it.

Now the question is whether lifting the three fingers is an offensive gesture.

In a way I guess it is especially if you live in the multi-cultural society. On top of this is the victory symbol that was used by Chetniks. However many Muslims consider it OK to greet somebody with Merhaba or to use the green flag during the weddings i.e., Croats use the same flag and money that was used by Ustasha movement during the Independent State of Croatia (Nazi allies that committed horrible atrocities) Is that offensive for members of other religions too - especially as I mentioned if you live in a multi-cultural society?

Kezman is an idiot and well known nationalist (his statements and behaviour befiore and after the football game between BiH and SiCG proves that)

But I believe to find an answer to your question is much more complex

muha_sa · Post by **muha_sa** » 04/09/2006 18:17

Gidra reHa--voe ih peto na nomstra zikuje šupi--ćemoho li i mi na škemna--škina je vipra zikje.Sikoka ti moj reHa-vdjeo vopra ćevru-ne liža se al toe.
Mipri skreni zdravpo iz heraše---vija se da demoje tupi na ršijiča.

Edin H. · Post by **Edin H.** » 04/09/2006 18:18

everybody hurts wrote:sad ce jos izbiti prepirka o nacionalnostima u BiH i na engleskom

mala-i · Post by **mala-i** » 04/09/2006 18:33

so this is what the Serbs themselves say about this salute:I found it on their web site,you have the link on the other topic but I doubt you'll find it useful as it is written in cyrillic.
they say that a traditional serb salute is one with three fingers put together.that describes holy trinity (Father,Son and Holy ghost).they used this salute even in the 4th century.
but,in 1990-s serbian nationalists began using salute with three separated fingers.and that salute is today something that most of the people here connect with chetnicks.
I can't be objective because for me this was and is a symbol of losing home and childhood.So I found that link
here it is so you can see the pictures,especially the first one as it tells more than a thousand words...
http://www.czipm.org/triprsta.html

Harrys · Post by **Harrys** » 04/09/2006 18:39

muha_sa wrote:Gidra reHa--voe ih peto na nomstra zikuje sˇupi--c´emoho li i mi na sˇkemna--sˇkina je vipra zikje.Sikoka ti moj reHa-vdjeo vopra c´evru-ne lizˇa se al toe.
Mipri skreni zdravpo iz herasˇe---vija se da demoje tupi na rsˇijicˇa.

Vozdra i bite.

brodo je,cevru i vdeo.demoi na tupi,jaaa jaaaaa.

Libo me nacu za noo rego.

Ciao.

Ahmmed · Post by **Ahmmed** » 04/09/2006 18:42

Ma, odgovorio bih ja čovjeku na turskom, i to bi baš bilo IN, pogotovo nakon ovih reisovih posljednjih izjava

. A i nekako mi drago kad vidim kako Bosanci i Hercegovci,lijepo pišu na engleskom.

Midas1970 · Post by **Midas1970** » 06/09/2006 00:44

Edin H. wrote:It's a Serbian custom to kiss three times i.e. so it is custom to lift three fingers as a sign of victory.

I think it's something to do with a holy trinity, but I don't know enough about the Orthodox religion to be able to precisely clarify it.

Now the question is whether lifting the three fingers is an offensive gesture.

In a way I guess it is especially if you live in the multi-cultural society. On top of this is the victory symbol that was used by Chetniks. However many Muslims consider it OK to greet somebody with Merhaba or to use the green flag during the weddings i.e., Croats use the same flag and money that was used by Ustasha movement during the Independent State of Croatia (Nazi allies that committed horrible atrocities) Is that offensive for members of other religions too - especially as I mentioned if you live in a multi-cultural society?

Kezman is an idiot and well known nationalist (his statements and behaviour befiore and after the football game between BiH and SiCG proves that)

But I believe to find an answer to your question is much more complex

Edin, can you give more info (or suggest a source i can go and check), about what exactly Kezman said and did before and after the BiH game ? Thanks...

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