Potpuni poraz americke politike, povijesni "presedan&am

Rasprave na razne teme... Ako ne znate gdje poslati poruku, pošaljite je ovdje.

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Zadig
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#1 Potpuni poraz americke politike, povijesni "presedan&am

Post by Zadig » 02/09/2005 12:11

Zar je moguce da najmocnija zemlja na svijetu dopusti ovakva desavanja u samom srcu njene teritorije?

Zar je moguce da oni jos uvijek nisu uspjeli evakuirati ljude koji su ostali zarobljeni u gradu?


Zar je moguce da toliko mocna vojska sa najjacom logistikom na zemlji nije uspjela da doturi dovoljno hrane, vode, osnovnih potrepstina?
"Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we are running out of supplies for 15,000 to 25,000 people
Zar je moguce da tako jaka zemlja nije uspjela da uspostavi monopol na primjenu fizicke sile na svojoj teritoriji?
People were raped in the Superdome. People were killed in there. We had multiple riots
New Orleans police officer
Zar je moguce da gradjani te zemlje su u ovkom stanju:
Image

Zar je moguce da amerika (tj ovaj dio) izgleda vise na afriku nego na zapadni svijet (po bijedi, ne boji koze)


Image


Image

Ja sam sokiran, ne jacinom oluje, ne cinjenicom da je grad zavrsio karijeru (nema ga smisla vise graditi ponovo jer ce jope za neko vrijeme biti sheban), vec sam sokiran TOTALNOM NESPREMNOSCU i institucija da se organizuju da sami sebi pomognu.

Nije uspostavljen krizni stab, krizna komisija (sigurno je poslje svega napraviti komisiju, tipicno americki), nema odreda vojske koji ce biti podjeljen na ocuvanje mira, pomoc, distribuciju, sanitarne potrebe, NEMA CAK NI FIELD HOSPITAL-a. Stalno se prica o bolestima, a niko nista ne radi po tom pitanju. Nevjerovatno. Pa u vijetnamu su imali i bolnice, i satore, i menze, pobogu zasto nemogu da naprave to za svoje ljude. Vec je tri dana proslo, nista se prakticno ne desava....

Pa ameri su poznati da znaju napravit izbjeglicki kamp u sekundi, prihvatni centar (ili ja samo misilm da su oni sposobni za tako nesto), nego sopstvene gradjane ostave da trule sami sa sobom...uzas. Jel moguce zato sto su vecina zrtava crnci? Ne mogu da vjerujem u to.

Poptuno sam iznenadjen da su organi vlasti toliko paralizirani po pitanju njihove sopstvene zemlje...a u izgradnji iraka se prave planovi, komisije, drze se govori (ok znam da to nije isto)

Vase misljenje, komentari...

Jel moguce da sam to ja mozda precjenio moc americke drzave da se organizuje kolektivno i da te ljude konacno izvuku iz vise nego nevicilizirane situacije.....


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#2

Post by A-ZO » 02/09/2005 12:36

oni koji su zaduzeni da pomagaju imaju tolike plate da su se uljenili i udebljali ko krave i nisu nizasta osim sto su se izvukli iz grada i razmisljaju ko ce u koji restoran. zato, nema nista bez TITE :)

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#3

Post by Zreli » 02/09/2005 12:39

Zadig wrote:Zar je moguce
Zar je moguce

Zar je moguce
Zar je moguce



Zar je moguce
Zar je moguce





Dal je moguce?! Da si me zaboravla?! .. da si drugom popusila, dal je moguce :D :D :D

Stvarno, a mi smo mislili, oni su jaci i od Boga.

Bog uzvraca udarac.

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#4

Post by dinash » 02/09/2005 12:44

gledam na TVu i ne mogu da vjerujem da se RASPADA milionski grad.

rei
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#5

Post by rei » 02/09/2005 12:58

a zasto su svi onako debili, pa gledam sami beton, sve ravno
bas mi se nista ne svidja :D
koliko je nasa zemlja ljepsa :P



ps kad ponovo procita vidim da sam mahinalno napisala "debili"
a u stvari mislila debeliiiiii hahah dzaba je hoce jezik .... kako hoce...

:lol:

Zadig
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#6

Post by Zadig » 02/09/2005 13:17

Mislm da su Ameri definitivno pokazali da NEZNAJU da se nose sa KRIZOM i da im snalazljivost za vrijeme velikih previranja ne ide od ruke.

mozda zato sto je to ONE MAN country, nije jebiga sada da padne vlada ili da premijer da ostavku ako zejebe, pa mozda odatle potice toliko politicke imobilnosti kod drugova amerikanaca....

U svakom slucaju, ja se nadam da ce ova kriza nauciti americki narod neke stvari o njihovoj drzavi.

Takodje postavljam pitanje skrivanja informacija (znamo da su u tome dobri) i da budem iskren, sumljam da nam je predstavljena magnituda ove katastrofe, tj sta se tamo uopse i desava...

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#7

Post by manijak1 » 02/09/2005 13:26

Pored toga što su skrivali informacije i bezočno su lagali ( lagao u stvari guverner Loussiane ) da su poslali u ugrožena područja jedinice Nacionalne garde ( čak i iz okolnih država ) i da će obračun sa lopovima biti nemilosrdan a izgleda da se lopovi obračunavaju sa ostatkom populacije u gradu.
Dalje kao magični CNN ima tamo reportere na licu mjesta no sada to ne mogu da pratim ali jučer ništa od pomena da u gradu vladaju teror i bezakonje.
Ne smijem ni pomisliti - šta bi ovdje bilo .

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#8

Post by Zadig » 02/09/2005 13:34

Ja se samo pitam dokle ce se oni jebote provlaciti (mislim na vlast) kroz ovako katastrofalne forpase neosteceni, cak jaci i jos bogatiji....?!?!
Dok postoji fox-a i CNN-a vjerovatno
:roll:

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#9

Post by hrasno38 » 02/09/2005 13:37

Peti dan nakon razornog udara uragana Katrine, poplavljenim ulicama New Orleansa plutaju raspadajuća trupla, a tisuće zarobljenih na krovovima kuća bespomoćno čekaju na evakuaciju ili barem malo hrane. Strahuje se da je poginulih na tisuće, ali vlasti zasad mogu tek nagađati. Povijesnim gradom jazza zavladali su naoružani pljačkaši koji, a snage zadužene za sigurnost imaju naredbu pucati i ubiti. Gradom se raširio kriminal i silovanja. Iz Arkansasa u grad stiže i 300 pripadnika Nacionalne garde koji su se upravo vratili iz Iraka. Nasilni pljačkaši ne prezaju ni pred čim i pod njihovom su se vatrom već našli ne samo policajci, već i spasioci, pa čak i bolničko osoblje, te je gradonačelnik New Orleansa Ray Nagin dramatično pozvao na hitnu pomoć u prebacivanju na sigurno tisuća evakuiranih osoba. Oklopni transporteri u stalnoj su ophodnji ulicom Canal, koja obrubljuje legendarnu francusku četvrt New Orleansa, a helikopteri su već počeli dovoziti dodatne snage pa bi uskoro u područjima na obali Meksičkog zaljeva trebalo biti 50 tisuća pripadnika Nacionalne garde i redovne vojske, najviše u američkoj povijesti. Istodobno, unatoč sporadičnoj vatri pljačkaša, spasioci i dalje pod ruševinama zgrada tragaju za preživjelima uz pomoć malih robota koji reagiraju na toplinu, a uz pomoć posebno obučenih pasa nastoje ukloniti i mrtva tijela. Snažan tajfun, usporediv s uraganom Katrina, približava se Japanu i do otoka Kyushua trebao bi stići početkom sljedećeg tjedna.

Preneseno sa monitor.hr

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#10

Post by The_Fluid » 02/09/2005 13:54

Bush pozvao Amerikance na štednju benzina!

CNBC je cijeli dan izvjestavao o katastrofalnim posljedicama ovotjednog Hurricane-a na trziste energije, nafte, benzina I ostalog. Uticaj Katrine izgleda da je ogroman jer je predsjednik Bush izasao na TV i izjavo ono sto nijedan predsjednik nije od 1970 godine na ovamo – POZVAO JE STANOVNIKE NA STEDNJU BENZINA! ZAMISLITE TO! Izaci pred amerikance i reci im: «Don't buy gas if you don't need it." – je prava hrabrost!

U zemlji u kojoj se SVI VOZE (jer moraju) I TO OD MALIH NOGU (16-te) pa sve do duboke starosti takoreci do smrti, dati ovakvu izjavu mora biti spojeno sa osjecajem nemocnog bola i bijesa, da ne spominjemo negativne posljedice koje ovakva kriza moze imati po ponovni izbor republikanaca na slijedecim izborima! Stalne obustave i prekidi u transportu nafte zbog ostecenih infrastruktura u Lousiana-i i Mississippi-ju, iscrpljuju vec nacete rezerve benzina i nafta se ne stize dovoljno brzo rafinirati da bi pokrila potrebe sirom Amerike! Rezultat je gotovo svakodnevno skakanje cijena benzina i goriva do razine od oko $3 i vise po galonu! Nadrapale su i avionske kompanije kojima je cijena goriva poskupila 20%! Bush je cak dozvolio da STRANI BRODOVI PREVOZE NAFTU OD LUKE DO LUKE, sto je u normalnim vremenima dozvoljeno jedino brodovima koji plove pod americkom zastavom! Na nabrzinu sklepani TV govor, Bush je izasao u pratnji svog tate (bivseg predsjednika papa-Busha) kao i svog predhodnika Clintona, kao da se zelio okruziti sa svih strana da bi dao vecu tezinu svojim rijecima (uglavnom molbe, upozorenja i obecanja ugrozenima)! Bilo je dosta rijeci o ekonomiji, uglavnom ohrabrivanja i bodrenja zabrinutog pucanstva! NA KRAJU ovako aktivnog dana Bush se cak sastao sa chairmanom GREENSPANOM na rucku i taj susret izazvao je divlje spekulacije na Wallstreetu! Zasto su se susreli, sta je ko kome rekao? Da li je Bush zamolio Greenspana da ima na umu Katrinu kad bude odlucivao o daljnjem dizanju interesa (sto ne bi bilo u redu ni po propisu jer se predsjednik ne bi smio mijesati u poslove FEDSa) ili je obrnuto, u razgovoru htio steci dojam o daljnjoj monetarnoj politici koju FEDSi namjeravaju provoditi – to mozda nikad necemo saznati! U svakom slucaju market sad nije na cisto da li ce Fedsi –ponukani ovom katastrofom prestati dizati interese, ili ce nastaviti dok se ne vidi kuda to sve ide! Ta NEDOUMICA odrazila se i danas u trejdanju koje je bilo rastrgano i bez odredjenog smjera! Ako ce FEDSI prestati dizati interesa (kao sto market PREDVIDJA za Novembar, u pitu FEDS FOND FUTURESa u Chikago-u) onda je ovaj Market nekoliko stotina pointa podcijenjen! Ako ne, onda bi suprotno mogao biti slucaj! Vidjeti cemo uskoro ako ne i prije . (opcije.blog.hr)

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#11

Post by Zadig » 02/09/2005 14:01

Mislm da samo svjedoci jednog vremena koje ce mozda imati istoriske posljedice po americki kontinent.

Zbog "skrivanja" informacija, bojim se da nebudemo uskraceni za istnu koja se tamo desava. A cini mi se da je grozna, zaista.

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#12

Post by manijak1 » 02/09/2005 14:02

:oops: Još ako stihija potkreše Japan - globalno smo blizu 1933 -e i obnavljanja velike ekonomske krize.
Najebali smo :oops:

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#13

Post by Zadig » 02/09/2005 14:05

Najnovije vijesti:
explozije u NO!

bbc
The New Orleans riverfront has been hit by a series of massive blasts, and fires are raging in the area.

The cause and extent of damage are not yet clear. Police boats are at the scene of the explosions, which occurred at about 0430 (0930GMT).

The news came as extra troops were sent to quell lawlessness in the city, where thousands are stranded without food or water in Hurricane Katrina's aftermath.
:shock:

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#14

Post by The_Fluid » 02/09/2005 14:08

Image
Fire burns after explosions early Friday on the riverfront of New Orleans.


Slika iznad je vezana uz Zadigov post
--------------------------------------------

Meni ovo lici, na vjesto isceniranu operaciju: "Zbijmo redove, Amerikanci!!"

posebno nakon ovog teksta:

Blumenthal: Bush zaustavio projekte obrane od poplava u New Orleansu

Katastrofalna razaranja i brojne ljudske žrtve uragana Katrina nisu isključivo djelo prirode, jer se dobar dio štete mogao spriječiti da administracija predsjednika Georgea Busha nije godinama smanjivala sredstava koja vlada izdvaja za zaštitu New Orleansa od poplava kako bi financirala rat u Iraku. To tvrdi Sydney Blumenthal, savjetnik bivšeg predsjednika Billa Clintona, u tekstu objavljenom u on-line izdanju njemačkog magazina Der Spiegel.
Blumenthal navodi da je Savezna agencija za krizne situacije (FEMA) još 2001. upozorila vlasti da je uragan koji bi pogodio New Orleans jedna od tri najvjerojatnije katastrofe koje bi mogle snaći SAD u bliskoj budućnosti. No, unatoč upozorenjima Bushova administracija »srezala« je sredstva namijenjena kontroliranju poplava u New Orleansu za govoto pola - 44 posto u protekle četiri godine. Naime, nakon što je u poplavama 1996. poginulo šest osoba Kongres je donio odluku prema će se na jačanju nasipa za obranu od poplava i obnovi crpki angažirati inženjerija američke vojske. No, sredstva kojima se taj projekt trebao financirati Busheva je vlada preusmjeravala u financiranje iračkog rata tako je samo prošle godine iz proračuna projekta oduzeto čak 80 posto svih sredstava. Isto tako, navodi Blumenthal, vojska je prošle godine vladi predložila studiju kako zaštititi New Orleans od katastrofalnog uragana, no Bushova je admnistracija naredila da se istraživanje ne poduzima. Probleme s financiranjem sustava zaštite od poplava podrobno su pratili lokalni mediji, tako da Blumenthal, kao i niz komentatora iz uraganom pogođenih područja, zaključuju da sad »nitko ne može reći da nije znao«. [J.Š.](vjesnik.hr op.a.)
Last edited by The_Fluid on 02/09/2005 14:29, edited 1 time in total.

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#15

Post by FFK as Lucy01 » 02/09/2005 14:19

Na krovu jedne zgrade u NO....
Image

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#16

Post by FFK as Lucy01 » 02/09/2005 14:24

Ovaj text sadrzi poruke poslane na novoosnovani blog NO na koji ljudi salju poruke, uglavnom moleci za pomoc. Malo bolje oslikavaju sta se trenutno desava u gradu i koliko jos ljudi ceka da bude spaseno. Izvinjavam se onima koji ne znaju engleski, ali je text predug da bih ga prevodila...


NEW YORK While the world, and the media, focus on major developments involving thousands of victims in New Orleans, individual horror stories -- and cries for help -- just get lost. The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, from the onset of the catastrophe, has managed to provide blogs, forums, and bulletin boards for readers to seek help or information. But this morning, the pleadings at one forum turned absolutely chilling.

Here are a few samples from past few hours on Thursday (updated here from the top).

*
1300 Still Trapped at University Hospital

Latest text message from inside the hospital: ''Water dropping. Gunshots. Not safe.''

Through text messages and intermittent cell phone calls I have learned that 1300 patients and staff remain trapped mere blocks from the SuperDome at the University Hospital on Gravier Street. My girlfriend of 15 years is a 3rd OB/GYN resident there.

No power, food or water for 48+ hours.
Many dead are reported in the hospital.
No helipad exists.
No word from the outside world on a rescue or a plan.
The stench is said to be unbearable.
*

My coworker's brother is one of seven doctors who have been left behind at Touro Hospital. His name is Vinroot, I'm sorry, I don't know the first name. He is in a panic--the doctors have barricaded themselves on the seventh floor because armed gunmen are outside threatening them and demanding access to the roof so they can be rescued first. He is desperate. Someone needs to help these people NOW!

*
There are still approximately over 300 Vietnamese people stranded in sewage water up to the necks in many areas gathered at the Mary Queen of VN Church. We've contacted USCG, Red Cross, news media but no help has come out to their way yet. As you all know, Versailles is so far on the eastern edge of New Orleans that by the time any helicopters come that way, they're
already filled with people and have to turn back towards the Superdome to drop people off.

The water is still rising in that area. Many of the people are growing weak and sick from lack of food and water plus the heat. Some of them feel like they probably won't make it for the next day. Please people!!! do what you can to get these people to safe land.

*

There are 7 people trapped in the Gallary Row apartments at 448 Julia Street (corner of Julia and Magazine). They were attacked by armed gang who hijacked their truck and drove it through a locked gate in the parking garage. They are unable to leave the building due to the heavy presence of large, well-organized armed looters. They expect the building to be attacked at any moment.

The trapped people are lightly armed (one shotgun and one pistol) but there are numerous entry points into the apartments. Currently the trapped people are holed up on the roof. Please send help ASAP.

*

PLEASE HELP.
I just got word, I have friends trapped in a wharehouse located at 2716 Royal Street. There is reported gunfire outside.

*
I just talked to my neighbor who stayed behind at Camp and St. Mary. He walked along Jackson St and saw dead bodies everywhere from gun shots. After coming upon two dead girls, probably around 12-15 yr old, he had to get out. Where is the national guard? We need help.

*
Apparently armed thugs have surrounded the Tulane Univ Med Ctr (or hospital). One of the physicians trapped on the roof called his dad (a client of this NJ based law firm) to sound the alarm.

They are on the roof and need a chopper.

*
Does anyone know if Fats Domino is OK? I have been told his house is under water and he is missing.

Perhaps you could initiate a formal check by the boats in the 9th Ward?

*
DESPERATE SECURITY SITUATION IN RIVERBEND.
Spoke to my uncle this morning (Thurs) in Riverbend near Carrolton and St Charles. He and several (elderly) residents are holed up there and the security situation is getting desperate. Heat is extreme and there are roving gangs of looters with guns. The looters have also commandeered a backhoe and are ramming homes. My uncle and the others have no info about the evacuation. While Leake Avenue and River Road are dry, they are afraid to leave as they fear they will be shot, carjacked etc. This is a desperate plea for help as this is so far from downtown. We are trying to call everyone we can but of course the phone doesn't work. If someone official sees this, please send help.


*
Please notify the Coast Guard to search the buildings located on the campus of the University of New Orleans. Mr. Patrick Jolly is trapped in a building with other people and is surrounded by water. We lost contact with Mr. Jolly exactly two days ago. He is diabetic and has a group of people with him. His last conversation with his daughter was that he is surrounded by water due to the levee break and that a young girl was having an asthma attack. If possible, please notify the authorities to search each building on the campus for Mr. Jolly.

*
My mother is Cpl. Delores Paige she works with the New Orleans Sheriff Department. I spoke with her about an hour ago, according to her other deputies, along with the inmates, they were transported and trapped onto the Broad Bridge near the Times Picayune Building, it is also between Tulane and Washington Streets. They have been there for the last four days without any thing to eat or drink. Some officials came to get the inmates, but left the Deputies there standed I am very concerned for my mother because she is a diabetic and she says she has lost every thing. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Help my mother and the others. She also states that there are people dying all around them. Please send help.

*

I am searching for my grandson his name is Brandon Childs. He is aproxamatly 4 ft. tall. He is 6 years old with blond hair and brown eyes. If anyone knows of his whereabouts please E-Mail [email protected].

*
I got a call from my sis-in-law, Vicki, just now. There are 3-4 adults with her, one with severe asthma and no medications. They tried to get out by boat yesterday, but then got shot at by looters. Vicki is calling around to see if anyone has any resources to help, and she was hoping someone might have a contact or an idea. If you would kindly forward this to anyone you know that is in or was in the National Guard, military, etc.. They are on the deck of a house waving a red flag between South Claiborne and Willow.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

*

My sister rode out storm in Biloxi. Her 18 yr old head trauma patient/daughter (Alyssa Taylor hit by drunk driver last year) is stuck with her with meds and tube foods running out quickly...Neighbors pooled their gas from mowers to get them out to no avail. They are urgently in need as are many others who cannot communicate out and are NOT receiving aid! My nephew left Georgia with Army with Chinook copters to rescue others in NOLA but he cannot divert to rescue his aunt and cousin...The after-dramas are worse than the storm and help is not reaching in and no one can leave without fuel.

*
Throughout the days of listing to news stories reading articles on the web I have yet to here anyone mention anything about the students at Xavier University. There are at least 400 students trapped in the dormitory with no food or water. From my understanding the police officials did not check to see if there were people still on campus. This article is to inform anyone reading this that these people need help urgently. The girls are on the 5th floor and the boys on the 6th. There pliot is dire and should be attended to as soon as possible.


Takodje evo i link na kojem mozete pogledati slike i procitati vise o posljedicama koje je ostavila Katrina


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_ ... ne_katrina

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#17

Post by The_Fluid » 02/09/2005 14:28

Image

A fire burns after an explosion early this morning in New Orleans this morning.

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#18

Post by Lisac » 02/09/2005 14:28

chisto informativno, je'l se neko sjeca za koga su glasali louisiana i missisipi na proteklim predsjednichkim izborima?

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#19

Post by manijak1 » 02/09/2005 14:31

Nisam siguran ali mislim da je baš Bush.

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#20

Post by The_Fluid » 02/09/2005 14:33

Lisac wrote:chisto informativno, je'l se neko sjeca za koga su glasali louisiana i missisipi na proteklim predsjednichkim izborima?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/ ... president/

:D

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pitt
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#21

Post by pitt » 02/09/2005 14:34

Eno kod mene izbjeglica iz New orleansa spava :(

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#22

Post by FFK as Lucy01 » 02/09/2005 14:35

Lisac wrote:chisto informativno, je'l se neko sjeca za koga su glasali louisiana i missisipi na proteklim predsjednichkim izborima?
A sto je to bitno?

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#23

Post by irfan2 » 02/09/2005 14:35

samo jos da ne otkrive na terorizam :D

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#24

Post by manijak1 » 02/09/2005 14:38

Ako pogledaš ovo
Blumenthal: Bush zaustavio projekte obrane od poplava u New Orleansu
Onda je itekako važno.

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#25

Post by FFK as Lucy01 » 02/09/2005 14:44

Manijak, eto ako utvrdimo da je vecina onih kojima treba pomoc glasali za Busha i ako je on taj koji je direktno kriv za ovo sto se dogadja, e u tom slucaju treba spasaviti samo one koji nisu glasali za njega.

Po toj logici, Ameri su trebali bombardovati sve Srbe, Hrvate i Bosnjake koji su glasali za nacionalne stranke, kao i ostaviti ih da pocrkaju od gladi u opkoljenom Sarajevu, jer nisu bolje ni zasluzili.

Jel' dobro ovo poredjenje?

U vrijeme kada ljudi bukvalno umiru od gladi, vrucine, bolesti i sl. mislim da je najmanje vazno za koga je neko glasao. Opet radi poredjenja, ona stara nena sto su joj poturili da glasa za SDA, jer su nasi, je trebala biti ostavljena ili odvedena u neki od mnogobrojnih "prijateljskih" Srpskih logora, jer eto glasala je za pogresnu stranku....

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