ISTANBUL (let's meet where the continents meet)

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 15:21

because i live in istanbul and mostly everyone here is from Bosnia, i think about a topic which is dedicated to Istanbul, where I am living.

i must start with the distinguishing features of the city of Istanbul;
its geographic location,
unique natural beauty,
and the great historical and cultural heritage which has come to symbolize the city.

The first foundations of today's Istanbul were laid down in the 7th century BC. lt was rebuilt and made the capital city (Constantinople) by Emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD.

Since then, for sixteen centuries the city has retained its position as the capital city of Eastern Rome, the Byzantine Empire, and Ottoman Empire. In addition to becoming one of the centers of Christianity under the reign of Emperor Constantine, Istanbul became the most important center in the Islamic world following the conquest of the city by the Ottoman Turks in 1453.

The location of the city was chosen in order for the city to play a key role in history. As early as the ancient times the city enjoyed an advantageous position in terms of the control of both the East-West road from Europe to Asia Minor and the sea connection in the North-South direction.

Established at the crossroads of human history, Istanbul has for centuries attracted the interests of many emperors, armies, adventurers, merchants, philosophers, and great religious personalities. Poems praising the city have been written. There are narratives that assert that possession of Istanbul meants possession of the world.

I would like share beauties of Istanbul in this topic with you. And I think this can be a good plave for your questions about Istanbul...

ENJOY...

Allahimanet

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 15:25

Ortakoy Mosque and the Bosphorus Bridge under the color of night. The night is quite different on the Bosphorus.

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 15:29

Rumeli Hisarı was built by the order of Sultan Mehmet II before he conquered Istanbul in 1453. Its still as its in it's past days. The Second Bridge which meets the continents can be seen in the photo; the Fatih Sultan Mehmet Bridge.

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 15:33

The picture has been taken from Kuzguncuk quarter of Istanbul. Steamships are having daily tours on the Bosphorus.

Maverick_ · Post by **Maverick_** » 07/08/2004 15:36

Istanbul is great! I like this city a lot

. I have been once and it is beautifull

. Part city wich name is Taksim is best,a lot of night-clubs,bars,caffes....

. But i was also on Beyazit and part of the city wich name is Yeni Bosna(Nova Bosna na nasem

)

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 15:47

satellite view of Bosphorous and Istanbul...

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 17:31

Maverick_ wrote:Istanbul is great! I like this city a lot . I have been once and it is beautifull . Part city wich name is Taksim is best,a lot of night-clubs,bars,caffes.... . But i was also on Beyazit and part of the city wich name is Yeni Bosna(Nova Bosna na nasem )

it's nice to see there are some people who had seen Istanbul.

I m living here in Istanbul since 1988, i was 9 years old when we moved here

here is a photo from Taksim, as u know the name of Taksim, u must also know Istiklal Avenue

this photo shows whatever u r talking about...

and gentleman may i ask u, why were u in Istanbul ?

enjoy Istanbul again with these photos

stelium · Post by **stelium** » 07/08/2004 18:23

On July `72 asked my father,my mother if she want to married him.It was happened in Istambul.After this pictures I realized that she hadn`t any other choise(just say yes)!

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 18:42

stelium wrote:On July `72 asked my father,my mother if she want to married him.It was happened in Istambul.After this pictures I realized that she hadn`t any other choise(just say yes)!

did they marry in Istanbul ? and as I understood ur father is Turk and mother is Bosnian, is it right ?

And how old are you ? do u remember Istanbul much ?

stelium · Post by **stelium** » 07/08/2004 19:08

My parents are both Bosnian.32 years ago they were on jurney in Istambul(I guess they stay there 10 days or more).I`m 31 now.

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 19:17

stelium wrote:My parents are both Bosnian.32 years ago they were on jurney in Istambul(I guess they stay there 10 days or more).I`m 31 now.

nice story

and now you r all in Bosnia, i see

enjoy ur life..

Allahimanet

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 19:24

Maverick_ wrote:Istanbul is great! I like this city a lot . I have been once and it is beautifull . Part city wich name is Taksim is best,a lot of night-clubs,bars,caffes.... . But i was also on Beyazit and part of the city wich name is Yeni Bosna(Nova Bosna na nasem )

do you remember when u were here in Istanbul Maverick_ ?

violentjack · Post by **violentjack** » 07/08/2004 22:26

Nice city i wish one day i visit it

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 07/08/2004 23:07

violentjack wrote:Nice city i wish one day i visit it

it will be a pleasure to dobro dosli you

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 08/08/2004 19:43

Rumeli Hisarı and Bosphorous in the winter...

zlata · Post by **zlata** » 08/08/2004 20:02

Dear Istanbul

I get so PISSED off when I see the beautiful mosques and palaces of Istanbul.

I can't stop thinking of all THE MONEY and WEALTH that was taken out of Bosnia for the glory of the Ottomans.

Meanwhile...in Bosnia...in many places people built wooden mosques. That's all they could afford, after paying taxes to the sultans.

While I truly appreciate your interest in Bosnia and Bosnian people....REMEMBER....

TURKS CONQUERED US. KILLED OUR KING. USED US FOR 400 YEARS....AND THEN DUMPED US....left us alone....to struggle ALONE, with our rabid neighbours.

We don't need more RETURNING TURKS. We need more Bosnians...less Serbs, less Croats, fewer "Bosniaks" and sentimental Ottoman progeny...crying for the "old times", when "they" were beys, aghas, and pashas.

We don't want a neo-Turkish Bosnia of a privileged FEW. We want an equalitarian, independent Bosnia, for all the Bosnian people

Personally...I am shocked....and a little bit disgusted...that you are coming to Bosnia...AFTER ALL THESE YEARS...only to help open a PRIVATE UNIVERSITY.

Why don't you help improve...BOSNIA'S PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS that we already have? Otherwise...your role in our society, will be that of an INTELLECTUAL MERCENARY.

pape · Post by **pape** » 08/08/2004 20:14

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 08/08/2004 20:56

zlata wrote:Dear Istanbul
...................

Personally...I am shocked....and a little bit disgusted...that you are coming to Bosnia...AFTER ALL THESE YEARS...only to help open a PRIVATE UNIVERSITY.

Why don't you help improve...BOSNIA'S PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS that we already have? Otherwise...your role in our society, will be that of an INTELLECTUAL MERCENARY.

I am not coming to Bosnia this time zlata. It's early now. I finished my first year in my PhD education of Electronics Engineering. After I finish I plan to come. As fas as I know, In Sarajevo we have only 1 university. Do you think that it is enough one university for such a capitol ?

This university will not have an obligation for students who finish bachelor science to work at least 2 years before starting masters. This university is all for Bosnians. I think it will help Bosnia to improve quickly.

Allahimanet

stelium · Post by **stelium** » 08/08/2004 21:08

Zlato,u kojoj si partiji da glasam za tebe.Potpisujem sve do zadnje rjeci!

sorge_sa · Post by **sorge_sa** » 08/08/2004 23:05

ma Zlata trabunja...........pojma nema sta prica......tamo negdje iz Canade.....drzi predavanja......o Bosni.....i Turskoj.....odavno glupljeg posta ne procitah..........

........ne mogu da vjerujem..........brrrrrr.......najezih se......

violentjack · Post by **violentjack** » 09/08/2004 00:06

eanwhile...in Bosnia...in many places people built wooden mosques. That's all they could afford, after paying taxes to the sultans.

While I truly appreciate your interest in Bosnia and Bosnian people....REMEMBER....

TURKS CONQUERED US. KILLED OUR KING. USED US FOR 400 YEARS....AND THEN DUMPED US....left us alone....to struggle ALONE, with our rabid neighbours.

Not true il write this in english

Sarajevo was third largest european otoman city after Istanbul and Budim
One time had around 100 000 people, was almost size of London
Until Eugen Savojski torched it in 1697

Aladza mosque Foca was only one of three jewels in otoman architecture

With Prizren in Kosovo, Travniik and Istanbul
Read traveler Evlija Celebija where he describes Bosnian cities during the time of otoman rule

Istanbul · Post by **Istanbul** » 09/08/2004 00:25

violentjack wrote:
Sarajevo was third largest european otoman city after Istanbul and Budim
One time had around 100 000 people, was almost size of London
Until Eugen Savojski torched it in 1697

Aladza mosque Foca was only one of three jewels in otoman architecture

With Prizren in Kosovo, Travniik and Istanbul
Read traveler Evlija Celebija where he describes Bosnian cities during the time of otoman rule

mnogo hvala violentjack...

thank you for your interest.

Ergot · Post by **Ergot** » 09/08/2004 01:34

zlata wrote:Dear Istanbul

I get so PISSED off when I see the beautiful mosques and palaces of Istanbul.

I can't stop thinking of all THE MONEY and WEALTH that was taken out of Bosnia for the glory of the Ottomans.

Meanwhile...in Bosnia...in many places people built wooden mosques. That's all they could afford, after paying taxes to the sultans.

While I truly appreciate your interest in Bosnia and Bosnian people....REMEMBER....

TURKS CONQUERED US. KILLED OUR KING. USED US FOR 400 YEARS....AND THEN DUMPED US....left us alone....to struggle ALONE, with our rabid neighbours.

We don't need more RETURNING TURKS. We need more Bosnians...less Serbs, less Croats, fewer "Bosniaks" and sentimental Ottoman progeny...crying for the "old times", when "they" were beys, aghas, and pashas.

We don't want a neo-Turkish Bosnia of a privileged FEW. We want an equalitarian, independent Bosnia, for all the Bosnian people

Personally...I am shocked....and a little bit disgusted...that you are coming to Bosnia...AFTER ALL THESE YEARS...only to help open a PRIVATE UNIVERSITY.

Why don't you help improve...BOSNIA'S PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS that we already have? Otherwise...your role in our society, will be that of an INTELLECTUAL MERCENARY.

At the risk of coming across as playing this man's advocate or spokesperson:

You madam should acquire a life pronto. I don't remember seeing you foaming at the mouth about the wealth (if by ''wealth'' you mean raw materials and natural resources, which I assume you do) being extracted from our country by the likes of Deutsche Telecom, Daimler-Chrysler and other multinational corporate bloodsuckers. Don't even get me started on that wealth being used to bring forth and enrich a caste of criminally insane pseudo-oligarchs such as this country has never seen in her entire history, all of whom are of local ''manufacture''. However, you get ''pissed off'' at something that was happening 400 years ago, as if the Turks of today had anything in common with the Ottomans of old in terms of mentality etc., and as if they could be held accountable for the wrongdoings of an empire that perished ages ago. This repulsive frame of mind bears a striking resemblance to the Serbian fixation with the Battle of Kosovo and ''slavery under Turks''. Volumes have been written about how fucking retarded this primitive obsession is. Our king was killed not by the Turks, but by our own noblemen who struggled for power and severely weakened the central government. The poor lad couldn't even muster up a decent brigade of cavalry to meet the invaders. Hit the books before you unleash your petty jingoistic diatribes upon the forum. If you spent a single day at a public institution of high learning in BiH you would know that those establishments are corrupt beyond help. In fact, a process of further devaluation of the universities is underway at full throttle, and anyone whose head is not stuck in the depths of his own arse can tell why. Just look at the new rector of the UniSa, a mercenary from head to toe, but an intellectual... not in a million bloody years. Shall we blame the Turks? If Deutsche Telecom can set up an illegal GSM operator here, I see no reason why a private person from Turkey should not establish a university. There are a few more points in your post that I could address, but you already got five minutes of my time, which is five minutes more than your asinine rant deserves.

zlata · Post by **zlata** » 09/08/2004 05:07

Ergot

For your reference...the Turks...left 2 decent mosques in "my" part of Bosnia Herzegovina. (One other interesting mosque was a converted church). Hardly any schools. No decent roads. No railroads. Mostly uneducated population.

Today's Turks take great pride in the Ottomans' accomplishments..AND with PRIDE comes "ownership", responsibility and accountability. If they don't disown their own history...Why should I do it for them?

Just like any former imperial power, they OUGHT to face up to the positive and negative consequences of their historical glory. It's up to us, the descendants of their former subjects, to tell them...."It wasnt' always SO great". We paid a HEAVY price for Ottoman mercy and tolerance. WE paid DERALY...for physical survival, as Moslems.

It's just...that our neighbours seem (often are) worse, much more antagonistic, directly hostile..and physically SO close...so we can't objectively see reality for what it is. Our historical memory... can't get far from the fear of physical annihilation...and AT LEAST..under the Turks...WE LIVED. Yes...but at what cost?

In a VERY short time...the Austro-Hungarian Empire built countless schools (including the one I attended)...railroads, factories, mines....and to this day, Bosnian students have the opportunity to study in Austria's excellent PUBLIC universities.

Between corrupt Turks and corrupt Germans...I choose the latter. I am not insinuating that all Turks and Germans are corrupt. History has proven...that at least the Germans (read Austrians) leave something sizable, FOR US. Even in ancient times...they were less hedonistic, more dilligent...and to this day...the stereotype STICKS. Like glue.

As far as Turks go...I also have distant relatives in Turkey...who fled Bosnia many years ago...have spoken to many Turks of Bosnian descent...and have heard first hand accounts of the social discrimination Bosnians experienced, upon arrival in Turkey. They HAD to become Turks. Change names. ASSIMILATE.

WELL HELL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO TURKEY...to do that! If they fled to Turkey in order to keep their faith...what for? How many of their descendents are practicing Moslems today (and also, Bosnian speaking self declared, Bosnians) ?

Personally, I don't wish to make this topic a Turkey bashing one...but I spoke my mind. In a world of enemies and indifference..Turkey seems a friend.

ERGOT...your explanation of the Ottoman invasion of Bosnia is pure REVISIONISM...and your insinuation that any Bosnian who DARES to see the Ottomans for what they were, INVADERS ...is a copy-cat Serb-Croat nationalist..imitating the intransigent exagerations of Serb and Croat extremists...You are OFF, by many miles.

Well sorry...but you've got it wrong. There are Bosnians...for whom INVADERS are INVADERS...Croats, Serbs, TURKS..or Austro-Hungarians, or Martians.

ISTANBUL...again...I wish to say that I am very HAPPY and honoured that you are interested in Bosnia, and acknowledge your Bosnian roots. I'll never forget the day I met a Turkish family in the US. The son kept saying..."we were originally Bosnian from Mostar". The father, an old man...who grew up as a Bosnian refugee in Ataturk's Turkey...kept insisting that he was REALLY A TURK...but "accidentally" born in Mostar.

It was kind of sad. Here they were...father and son. The son, a very successful American doctor, had been raised as a "real" Turk...and spared the trials of "mudzahirluk" of an ethnic minority. He was so Turkish..he didn't need to insist on it. The father was a "Turk for survival", by assimilation. And both...the extreme stereotypes of a "Slavic" physical appearance, very tall and very fair. Hardly "Turkish".

I also wish to return to Bosnia...and raise my family in my "hick" town..where my roots go so deep...I feel related to the first "gorilla" who climbed down "that" oak tree, and said "I am Mujo". "Are you Fate"? (Mujo and Fate are characters in many Bosnian jokes).

I also wish that Bosnia will be spared the fate of further privatization...especially in education. Knowledge is our only way "OUT". It it is the real source of true equality and fairness...and if we need to BUY it...we are going back to the dark ages...where the society cultivated the extremes of haves and have nots.

We got rid of that kind of economic and educational disequilibrium a few decades ago. We don't wish to rebuild it. We wish to improve and better our PUBLIC education system...not discredit and dismantle it.

Again, we are a quasi colony...and our "elites", in collusion with our "invaders" we'll decide our fate...UNLESS...we take firmer stand.

sorge_sa · Post by **sorge_sa** » 09/08/2004 18:12

zlato tvoje neznanje je raskosno......tvoje insistiranje na sopstvenoj gluposti i povrsnom znanju nekih navodnih fakata i cinjenica je zadivljujuce......u nasem narodu.....kazu : POKLOPI SE USIMA........zlato to bih i ja tebi porucio............ignorancija je blagostanje...........:s

ti toga imas u izobilju..........

ISTANBUL (let's meet where the continents meet)

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