Kasno ti je sad za to, samo kad padneš ženama u šake gotov si druže.(TEMA BI TREBALA BITI POTKRIJEPLJENA HUMOROM)
Iz svega ovoga mogu da zakljucim da si ti jedan pravi papucarshalaedin wrote:Prije svega zelio bih svim zenama da cestitam osmi mart. Pokazalo se da je osmi mart savrsen dan za dokazivanje zenske neravnopravnosti.
Hajmo i mi da im opalimo kontru ?
Dali se vi osjecate neravnopravnim u odnosu na zene? Dali vi mislite da i mi trebamo imati jedan dan kada sebi trebamo dati totalni odusak i primati poklone i biti predmet paznje ?
Koji bi nam datum prazniku trebao biti?
(TEMA BI TREBALA BITI POTKRIJEPLJENA HUMOROM)
!
Ovo nije smijeshno!grunt wrote: Iz svega ovoga mogu da zakljucim da si ti jedan pravi papucar
Meni jesteburek_in_space wrote:Ovo nije smijeshno!grunt wrote: Iz svega ovoga mogu da zakljucim da si ti jedan pravi papucar
,najvise volim da zajebajem papucare !
Svi smo mi papuchari!grunt wrote:
Meni jeste
Zar si i ti jedan od njih
Pa onda mogu platiti spremacicu da mi sprema i cisti, ipak mi muskarci od zena ocekujemo mnogo vise.amrica wrote:Vazi, samo izaberite datum, taj dan cete dobiti pokloncic, skuhan rucak, opranu i ispeglanu odjecu, .... a ostalih 364 dana sami sebi kuhate, perete, cistite, spremate...
A sta tek zene ocekuju od muskaracaDrvosjeca iz Dejcica wrote:Pa onda mogu platiti spremacicu da mi sprema i cisti, ipak mi muskarci od zena ocekujemo mnogo vise.amrica wrote:Vazi, samo izaberite datum, taj dan cete dobiti pokloncic, skuhan rucak, opranu i ispeglanu odjecu, .... a ostalih 364 dana sami sebi kuhate, perete, cistite, spremate...
Cvijetic par puta godisnje? Mogu to i same sebi kupiti. I veceru platiti.
19mart a u nekim zemljama se slavi druge nedelje u junuMa mi i vi zivimo takodje 365 dana u godini, ali vam zahvalimo za sve sto uradite za nas makar za 8 mart i uvijek kada mozemoamrica wrote:Vazi, samo izaberite datum, taj dan cete dobiti pokloncic, skuhan rucak, opranu i ispeglanu odjecu, .... a ostalih 364 dana sami sebi kuhate, perete, cistite, spremate...
Nisam uopste... totalno sam bez obaveza...grunt wrote:Iz svega ovoga mogu da zakljucim da si ti jedan pravi papucarshalaedin wrote:Prije svega zelio bih svim zenama da cestitam osmi mart. Pokazalo se da je osmi mart savrsen dan za dokazivanje zenske neravnopravnosti.
Hajmo i mi da im opalimo kontru ?
Dali se vi osjecate neravnopravnim u odnosu na zene? Dali vi mislite da i mi trebamo imati jedan dan kada sebi trebamo dati totalni odusak i primati poklone i biti predmet paznje ?
Koji bi nam datum prazniku trebao biti?
(TEMA BI TREBALA BITI POTKRIJEPLJENA HUMOROM)
mnogo ... dan kada su im totalno odrijesene ruke i noge... dan kada ih nece cimati, uznemiravati pitanjima ... tipa gdje si, sta radis , s kim si, jesi li to opet popio, sto to smrdis na travu ili pitanja tipa sto mi mirises na zenskoamrica wrote:A sta tek zene ocekuju od muskaracaDrvosjeca iz Dejcica wrote:Pa onda mogu platiti spremacicu da mi sprema i cisti, ipak mi muskarci od zena ocekujemo mnogo vise.amrica wrote:Vazi, samo izaberite datum, taj dan cete dobiti pokloncic, skuhan rucak, opranu i ispeglanu odjecu, .... a ostalih 364 dana sami sebi kuhate, perete, cistite, spremate...
Konkretno, tema je 8. mart, zene dobiju pokloncic i rucak-veceru... i to je to, samo sam povukla paralelu, cak sam i dodala omiljene kucanske poslove sta bi muskarci trebali dobiti za svoj 8. mart.
sanjaj, sanjajshalaedin wrote:Nisam uopste... totalno sam bez obaveza...grunt wrote:Iz svega ovoga mogu da zakljucim da si ti jedan pravi papucarshalaedin wrote:Prije svega zelio bih svim zenama da cestitam osmi mart. Pokazalo se da je osmi mart savrsen dan za dokazivanje zenske neravnopravnosti.
Hajmo i mi da im opalimo kontru ?
Dali se vi osjecate neravnopravnim u odnosu na zene? Dali vi mislite da i mi trebamo imati jedan dan kada sebi trebamo dati totalni odusak i primati poklone i biti predmet paznje ?
Koji bi nam datum prazniku trebao biti?
(TEMA BI TREBALA BITI POTKRIJEPLJENA HUMOROM)
samo se borim za jedan dan u zivotima nas muskaraca kada cemo imati prst u usima a pored smo svojih zena i kada ce nam sve biti dopusteno... ono pita te draga kako ti je bilo za dan muskaraca ma super, bio sam sa rajom u klubu plesala mi je zenska u krilu, ne samo meni i mojim drugovima po jedna, malo smo se napili ... uglavnom fino nam je bilo ... a ona to dozivi sasvim opusteno
a da tebi dodje zena za osmi i kaze "pa eto dragi, veceras sam se malo napila u aqui i malo s nekim plesala i vozala se ..."? bas bih volio vidjeti reakcije (nemoj da bude ko onaj krkan u ceskoj samo )
nego npr. na finale Lige prvaka, Europskog ili Svjetskog prvenstva, zadnje utrke Formule 1 u sezoni ili nekog drugog važnijeg događaja... Što žena treba poklonit svom muškarcu na taj dan posvećen muškarcu? S obzirom da muškarac ženi pokloni na 8.mart nekoliko cvjetova (buket), žena bi svom muškarcu trebala poklonit nekoliko piva (gajbu). Kako se od muškarca očekuje da bude primjereno odjeven za 8.mart, tako bi žene na Dan muškaraca trebale također bit dostojanstveno odjevene. Dress-code podliježe svim mogućim stereotipovima pa predlažem da se uskladi sve to s kineskim kalendarom. Npr. u godini zmaja žena se treba odjenuti kao medicinska sestra, u godini psa kao stjuardesa i tako dalje. Naravno, tako će odjevena bit do najviše 5 sati prije utakmice kada se povlači ili u svoje odaje, ili negdje s prijateljicama dok muškarci obilježavaju svoj dan uz televizor...
Mislim da je ovo klasicna podmetacina uskratitelja muskih prava... jos malo ce nam zabraniti da zeni djecu nesmijemo praviti...Loulou wrote:Takvo što već postoji:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Men%27s_Day
dakle, bez izmišljanja tople vode, please
Loulou wrote:Ai ovo treba pročitati:
International Men’s Day: An open letter of rejection
Michael Flood, 25 October 2004
This is an open letter concerning International Men’s Day. A men’s organisation in Canberra, Australia, is
proposing to commemorate this day as part of its efforts to promote awareness of men’s issues.
As someone who has been involved in men’s issues and men’s activism since the late 1980s, I am fully
supportive of efforts to improve men’s health, encourage fathers’ positive involvement in families, prevent
men’s use of and exposure to violence, and so on. However, I do not believe that an International Men’s Day
is an appropriate or effective way to help achieve such goals.
I argue below that men’s organisations should not support this event. But before spelling out my concerns, I
give some background on the day itself.
Background
International Men’s Day was founded in 1999, in Trinidad and Tobago. It continues to be observed there, on
November 19th each year.1
International Men’s Day does not have any kind of significant international presence. A Google search for this
event finds very few examples of any other countries or organisations acknowledging this day. Instead, its
internet presence is primarily in commentators stating, in response to International Women’s Day, “Why isn’t
there an International Men’s Day?”
In Australia however, the Men’s Health and Wellbeing Association of the Australian Capital Territory
(MHWA ACT) initiated the first celebration of IMD in Australia in 2003. As Phil Gouldson of the MHWA
ACT writes, “We are keen to build on this locally and nationally. The Association is contacting men’s
organisations around Australia to encourage them to undertake their own local celebrations.”
I do not know to what extent other men’s organisations have taken up this event.
Some discussions of IMD can be found here;
http://www.geocities.com/jtluxing/intmensday.html
http://www.menstuff.org/calendar/worksh ... s.html#imd
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a ... _id=002hYy
http://www.tcmc.org/index.html
Concerns about International Men’s Day
There are a number of important problems with International Men’s Day. In summary;
IMD offers a false parallel to International Women’s Day.
IMD invites a conservative understanding of gender relations.
IMD potentially alienates services and organisations that might otherwise support measures aimed at
improving men’s wellbeing or service responses to men.
There are better ways to achieve the same goals.
IMD may be ineffective at engaging men.
1 Source: http://members.tripod.com/cbtt/specialarticles.html. Accessed 25 October, 2004.
False parallel
The most important problem lies in the very notion of an “International Men’s Day”. It offers a false parallel to
International Women’s Day, false because the context and the meaning of the two days are fundamentally
different.
International Women’s Day began in 1908 in New York as a protest by women against intolerable working
conditions and lesser wages. It was taken up in the 1920s in Australia as part of a protest by women again
against unjust and unequal working conditions. International Women’s Day continues to be celebrated each
year, on March 8th, as part of protests against the many forms of discrimination and injustice experienced by
women.
The notion of an “International Men’s Day” implies that men, like women, are a group systematically
disadvantaged or oppressed by gender inequalities. There is no denying that men do suffer limitations and
harms under the current gender order, e.g. poor physical and mental health. But it is simply false to claim that
men as a group are disadvantaged by gender relations.
In response to some men’s question, “What about International Men’s Day?”, some women have responded
that every other day is International Men’s Day. In other words, on every other day, gender inequalities are
taken for granted, the achievements of (privileged) men in politics and culture are routinely celebrated, and
women’s lives and concerns are trivialised and marginalised. While this is simplistic, it does point to the ongoing
gender inequalities that characterise our society.
Some advocates of IMD may believe that IMD can embody this recognition, i.e. that IMD can invite men to
challenge the gender inequalities that disadvantage women and the gender norms that limit men. But even if
the klix agendas of IMD are not based on anti-feminist and conservative understandings, the notion of an
“International Men’s Day” itself invites this reading. This is my next point.
Invites a conservative understanding of gender relations
Because of the false parallel in the name “International Men’s Day”, this invite invites people into a common
conservative complaint about services and events directed at women. This complaint goes as follows:
“International Women’s Day?! Why isn’t there an International Men’s Day?” Or, “Women’s refuge?! Why
isn’t there a men’s refuge?” And so on.
There are several problems with such complaints. They fail to recognise that the specific injustices and
situations faced by women require responses that also, at least sometimes, are women-specific. They assume
that there is a level playing field between men and women, such that any service or resource dedicated to
women represents an injustice. They assume that this injustice must be remedied either by generic services for
women and men, or by parallel services and resources for men.
This kind of simplistic “You’ve got it, we want it too” logic will not provide the most appropriate services for
men. This “us too” approach won’t actually get men the most appropriate services they need, because it is
motivated more by a knee-jerk logic of equality than by an informed appraisal of the kinds of services men are
going to use and like. (This is a lesson that the advocates of men’s health have learnt. They argue that we
shouldn’t simply model men’s health on the early development of women’s health, because of crucial
differences between them. For example, setting up men’s health centres might not be the best approach,
because there is some evidence that men are more likely to go to generalist medical centres.)
In other words, “International Men’s Day” smacks of the “me-too-ism” that has dogged the men’s movement
since its beginnings. And this me-too-ism does men no favours.
Potentially alienates services and organisations that might otherwise support measures aimed at
improving men’s wellbeing or service responses to men
If people disagree with the arguments made so far, there is a further argument against IMD that may be more
persuasive. This is the point that IMD is bad strategy. IMD is likely to alienate women’s services, women’s
organisations, and other women and men who might otherwise be supportive of the causes (men’s health,
fathers’ positive involvement with children, etc.) associated with IMD.
Calls for an “International Men’s Day” will be understood by many women and women’s services as at best
misguided and ill-informed, and at worst as anti-feminist backlash. It is poor advocacy to antagonise the
individuals and agencies that are potential supporters of efforts e.g. to improve men’s health. It is these same
agencies that a men’s organisation would need to work with in developing local initiatives on these issues, as
they share the same field of community work and service provision. Atttempting to address issues such as
men’s health through an “International Men’s Day” gives these issues the taint of backlash.
I am not arguing that men’s organisations only can organise events or advocate policies that would be
supported by all women’s organisations. First, women’s organisations themselves may disagree about the
merits of a particular event or policy. Second, men’s organisations at times may need to argue for events or
policies with which some women’s organisations are uncomfortable. But it seems crazy to advocate an event
that is very likely to antagonise or alienate the majority of women’s services and organisations. Particularly
when there are other ways to achieve the goals with which the IMD ostensibly is associated. This brings me to
my next point.
There are better ways to achieve the same goals.
There are other, safer and more effective, ways to achieve the IMD’s goals. If the goal is to ‘raise men’s
issues’ in the community, then there are any number of ways to do this that do not have the same risks
associated with the IMD. For example, if the goal is to improve the ways in which services respond to and
engage men, this could be achieved by promoting or providing training to service providers, producing or
promoting resources for service providers, running an event on how to engage men, and so on.
In addition, there are a range of special days and weeks that already serve as useful organising points for work
on men’s issues. These include Fathers’ Day, Men’s Health Week, and others.
May be ineffective at engaging men.
Finally, an “International Men’s Day” may be ineffective at engaging men. Men too may be uncomfortable
with the me-too-ism it suggests. On the other hand, such an event may attract only those men who do believe
that ‘feminism has gone too far’ and ‘now men are the real victims’.
An “International Men’s Day” may attract media attention, and such attention is usually desired by community
organisations attempting to attract interest and support. However, because of the reasons already outlined, this
media attention may focus on the ‘competing with women’ angle , again detracting from the positive
significance of the event. In other words, an IMD may get media attention, but for the wrong reasons and with
damaging effects.
Conclusion
“International Men’s Day” is at best misguided and political naïve, and at worst hostile and anti-feminist. Men’s
organisations should not promote nor support an International Men’s Day. Nor should other organisations offer
their support to such an event.
Please feel most welcome to circulate or publish this letter.
Sincerely,
Michael Flood.
Dr Michael Flood
E-mail: [email protected]
PO Box 4026, Ainslie ACT, 2602, AUSTRALIA
Further reading
For further reading on men’s issues, see the articles collected here: http://www.xyonline.net
For academic references, see The Men's Bibliography: http://mensbiblio.xyonline.net/
Fenomenalna ideja ... jos na to bi se trebali sutke ako se nebi izolovale promatrati kakvo sportsko finale po mogucnostiJohnnyS wrote:Ja sam za to da ne bude neki fiksni datum nego da se pomiče kao Uskrs... S tim da naravno ne pada na Uskrs
shalaedin wrote:Fenomenalna ideja ... jos na to bi se trebali sutke ako se nebi izolovale promatrati kakvo sportsko finale po mogucnostiJohnnyS wrote:Ja sam za to da ne bude neki fiksni datum nego da se pomiče kao Uskrs... S tim da naravno ne pada na Uskrs
Ako vec nikome nije do tekme onda bi trebali se sa svojim milim zenama igrati FLASE ili pokera u skidanje
Mozda prirediti kakvu pravu swing zurku...
Pa to je moda u svijetu
i muski i zenski 
Ma salimo se mi, samo nam je dojadilo da slusamo radikalne zenske elemente koje zastupaju neki strogi feminizam i od nasih zena prave amazonke i crne udovice ( to jest muzeva prava pojedu u braku). Vi imate jedan dan posvecen vama i umjesto da se zabavite, vi kukate o nekoj neravnopravnosti zene... Mi hocemo samo da vam uljepsamo ovaj dan jos vise kao sto i vi nama uljepsavate dane svakodnevno...amrica wrote:Ako gleda bili the piton, onda onda ima problema sa kucnim pitonom
Jao, kako ste vi neozbiljni, zenama mrvicu paznju za 8. mart, a vi biste za svoj praznik sve moguce i nemoguce nepodobstine... Ako vam smetaju veze, cure, zene... razidjite se, a nemojte kukati ovdje
Ho's piti, jasat' po kafanama, gudrirat' se, kurvat' se ili imati slobodoumne veze... bujrum i sretan put
Ali striptiz mozda bi trebali hocemo i mi da zivimo Ma sto sve se moze kad se hoceamrica wrote:shalaedin wrote:Fenomenalna ideja ... jos na to bi se trebali sutke ako se nebi izolovale promatrati kakvo sportsko finale po mogucnostiJohnnyS wrote:Ja sam za to da ne bude neki fiksni datum nego da se pomiče kao Uskrs... S tim da naravno ne pada na Uskrs
Ako vec nikome nije do tekme onda bi trebali se sa svojim milim zenama igrati FLASE ili pokera u skidanje
Mozda prirediti kakvu pravu swing zurku...
Pa to je moda u svijetu
Zdogovorite se
Ili cete gajbu pive i na miru gledanje (morebitno i zajednicko) sporta, ili cete dress code? Ne mERe obadvoje
A tih finala i zadnjih trka citavu godinu, pa polufinale vaznije od finala, ili igra Hoffe, pa Munchester, pa Bayern, pa Real, pa Barca, pa ovaj onaj... pa F1, pa NBA, pa skijanje, olimipijada, EP, SP. ....
Ko se razumije, svaki mu je dan 8. mart
A ko ima potrebu da svera, da se opija i td, neka prvo izadje iz veze. Pa ce mu svaki dan biti muski 8. mart
