Bismillah!
Objavljujemo tekst govora* kojeg je britanski prijestolonasljednik princ Charles održao na Univerzitetu Al-Azhar, u Kairu, u utorak, 21. marta 2006, a kojom prilikom je odlikovan zvanjem počasnog doktora nauka na ovoj najstarijoj i najprestižnijoj naučnoj i visoko-obrazovnoj instituciji Islamskoga svijeta:
Vaše ekselencije, dame i gospodo, bio sam veoma dirnut time što ste uzeli u obzir da me pozovete da govorim na ovome velečasnome i drevnome mjestu bogoslužja i učenosti. Učinili ste mi najveću čast vašim pozivom i ja smatram veoma posebnom privilegijom posjetiti Univerzitet Al-Azhar i, uistinu, vratiti se u Egipat – zemlju prema kojoj imam posebnu naklonost i koja, za mnoge, ima sveto značenje kao mjesto pribježišta za dijete Isusa (Isa, a. s. -A. B. ).
Želim početi odajući dužno poštovanje čovjeku koji me je prvi ohrabrivao da prihvatim poziv da govorim ovdje, dragom prijatelju i svršeniku ovoga velikoga univerziteta, šejhu Zekiju Bedeviju. Njegova iznenadna smrt u januaru bila je potpuni šok i ogromna žalost za mnoge od nas širom svijeta. Bio je čovjek istinske mudrosti i učenosti. Sa poniznošću istinskoga učenjaka, on je učinio svoje veliko znanje pristupačnim drugima – i činio je to sa neodoljivim smislom za humor.
Ja ne pretendiram da budem učenjak, osim što sam studirao historiju na Univerzitetu Cambridge, ali me jako interesira istraživanje abrahamovske (ibrahimovske, a. s. -A. B. ) tradicije u kojoj sam se rodio. Ova tradicija me je oblikovala i učinila od mene ono što jesam. Danas ja stojim pred vama kao neko ko pripada porodici vjera koje su povezane s tom tradicijom.
Korijeni vjere koju dijelimo u Jednoga Boga, Boga Abrahamovog (Ibrahimovog, a. s. -A. B. ) daju nam trajne vrijednosti. Mi trebamo hrabrosti da govorimo o njima i afirmiramo ih, uvijek i iznova, svijetu koji je premoren promjenom i neskladom. To je poruka s kojom, iznad svega, želim da vas ostavim danas. Prvo, i najviše među tim vrijednostima našega zajedničkog naslijeđa, a izrođeno iz naše ljubavi prema Bogu, mora uvijek doći poštovanje jednih prema drugima, i prema Njegovom stvaranju. Naše poštovanje prema svim Božijim stvorenjima i prema životnoj sredini jeste izraz našeg poštovanja prema Stvoritelju koji je udahnuo život u cjelokupni pojavni svijet.
Drugo, a koje proističe iz ovoga, je da naša vjerovanja i vrijednosti pozivaju na mir, a ne na konflikt. Mi možda imamo ljudsku slabost da kritiziramo i da se nadmećemo jedni s drugima. Međutim, ono što imamo zajedničko, kao ljudi od vjere, poziva nas iznad ovoga prema uzajamnom poštovanju i razumijevanju. Treće, velike Abrahamovske tradicije govore o vjeri koja počiva u srcu, iznad ograničenja naše intelektualne spoznaje i prosudbe. Gdje god da smo pozicionirani u našem ljudskom društvu, koje god povoljne ili nepovoljne položaje imali u mogućnostima ili obrazovanju, mi prepoznajemo istine naše vjere «okom srca». Prorok Mojsije (poslanik Musa, a. s. -A. B. ) podsjećao nas je da je srce sjedište vjere: «Ti moraš voljeti Gospoda, tvoga Boga, svim svojim srcem. » Ja vjerujem da velike vjere govore kroz svoje svete tekstove srcu, a da je vjera sama ono što se srcem osjeća.
Međutim, dok ja nježno govorim o povezanostima unutar historije naših različitih abrahamovskih vjera, ja ne želim od vas da pomislite ni za jedan momenat da ja mislim da su one jedno i isto. Postoje razlike, i mi treba da ih slavimo. Međutim, u stvarima koje su najvažnije, mi imamo zajednički korijen. Onako kako to ja vidim, oko Božije namjere ne bi trebalo nikada biti sumnje: to je da nas poveže bliže jedne s drugima!Jedinstvo kroz različitost. . . Zaista, uvijek me je pokretalo to da Sveti Kur‘an ima stih (ajet, A. B. ): «O ljudi!Mi smo vas stvorili od para muška i ženska, i učinili vas narodima i plemenima, da biste mogli upoznavati jedni druge (ne da biste mogli prezirati jedni druge). »
S engleskog:
Adnan Balihodžić
http://www.preporod.com/tekst_detaljnije.asp?id=115
Govor Princa Charlesa na Al - Azharu
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#2
Bismillah!
Ovo je citav govor , ali samo na engleskom:
Your Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen, I have been enormously touched that you should have considered inviting me to speak at this most venerable and ancient place of worship and learning. You have done me the greatest honour through your invitation and I count it a very special privilege to visit the University of Al Azhar and, indeed, to return to Egypt - a country for which I have a particular affection and which, for many, has a sacred significance as the place of refuge for the child Jesus.
I want to begin by paying tribute to the man who first encouraged me to accept the invitation to speak here, a dear friend and graduate of this great university, Shaikh Zaki Badawi. His sudden-death in January was a profound shock and an immense sadness to many of us across the world. He was a man of real wisdom and learning. With the humility of a true scholar, he made his great knowledge accessible to others - and did so with an irresistible sense of humour.
I do not claim to be a scholar, other than having studied history at the University of Cambridge, but I do have a great interest in exploring the Abrahamic tradition into which I was born. This tradition has shaped me and made me who I am. Today I stand before you as one belonging to the family of faiths connected by that tradition.
The roots of the faith that we share in the One God, the God of Abraham, give us enduring values. We need the courage to speak of them and affirm them again and again to a world troubled by change and dissension. That is the message which, above all, I wish to leave you with today. First, and highest among those values of our common inheritance, and born of our love of God, must always come respect for each other, and for His creation. Our respect for all God's creatures and for the environment is the expression of our respect for the Creator whose inspiration is the entire manifest world.
Secondly, and following from this, our beliefs and values call out for peace aod" not conflict. We may have a human weakness to criticise and to compete with each other. But what we have in common, as people of faith, calls us beyond this towards mutual respect and understanding.
Thirdly, the great Abrahamic traditions speak of a faith which rests in the heart beyond the limitations of our intellectual knowledge and judgement. Wherever we are placed in our human society, whatever the advantages or disadvantages we have in ability or education, we perceive the truths of our faith with the 'eye of the heart'. The Prophet Moses reminded us that the heart is the seat of faith: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart"1. I believe that the great faiths speak through their sacred texts to the heart, and that faith itself is heart-felt.
But while I cherish the connections within the history of our different Abrahamic Faiths, I do not want you to imagine for one moment that I think that they are one and the same. There are differences, and we should celebrate them. But in the things that matter most, we have a common root. In my view, God's purpose should never be in doubt: it is to bind us closer together! Unity through diversity... Indeed, it has always moved me that the Holy Koran has a verse: "O Mankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other)."
I first voiced my thoughts publicly on relations betweel? Islam and the West in 1993, in a speech at another great university, Oxforu1. Something I said then has troubled me ever since. I said:
despite the advances in technology and mass communication in the second half of the twentieth century, despite mass travel and the intermingling of races...misunderstandings between Islam and the West continue. Indeed they may be growing.2
Tragically, the intervening twelve years have confirmed my fears and, for so many, those years have been profoundly bleak. My heart is heavy from witnessing the never-ending death and destruction - the kind of death and destruction I understand only too well, having experienced the loss of my beloved Great Uncle, Lord Mountbatten, at the hands of terrorist bombers in 1979. Images of communities torn apart by religious conflict are deeply harrowing -- from Bosnia to Baghdad, from Chechnya to Palestine -- evidence of just how far misunderstandings have continued and escalated. Violence, so often
justified in the name of religion, effects a terrible hardening of hearts. What good can possibly come of all of this?
In that same speech, I talked about the history of Europe and the Islamic world how they were inextricably entwined, and how, through the centuries, the giving and taking on both sides had contributed greatly to what we have become today. History shows what giant leaps of creativity in knowledge - in science, literature and the arts - have occurred when the members of the Abrahamic family have worked together. Can we not draw inspiration from the great explosion of knowledge and understanding which took place under the Abbassids between the ninth and thirteenth centuries, when their capital Baghdad was a world centre of learning; or from Islamic Spain between the tenth and the fourteenth centuries, when in cities such as Cordoba and Toledo, the work of Christian, Muslim and Jewish scholars led to the flowering of the Renaissance? We need to remember that we in the West are in debt to the scholars of Islam, for it was thanks to them that during the Dark Ages in Europe the treasures of classical learning were kept alive.
But in that same speech I also spoke of how, sadly, despite this fertile flow of ideas, many on both sides had still been left with uncompromising prejudices towards each other's cultures. This lingering mutual distrust persists, and with dreadful results. I think of the experience of Muslims living in Europe who are subject to varied and continuous expressions of Islamophobia by fellow-Europeans. I think of Christians living within some Muslim nations, who find themselves fettered by harsh and degrading restrictions, or subject to abuse by some of their fellow-citizens. And I think of dreadful acts of terrorism and violence across the world, carried out in the distorted name of faith.
I believe with all my heart that responsible men and women must work to restore mutual respect between faiths, and that we should do all we can to overcome the distrust that poisons so many people's lives. This, of course, is made infinitely more difficult by the stereotypes and absurdities propagated by certain sections of the Media. In my own very modest way, through the work of my Prince's Trust, my Foundation for the Built Environment and my School of Traditional Arts, I have sought to find ways to integrate communities and to celebrate the virtues of Islamic cultures in the United Kingdom. As these programmes develop across other countries, I hope that they may serve as a model for communities elsewhere. Even from small projects and examples the foundations of mutual respect, consideration and courtesy can be rebuilt, sometimes through the physical design of people's surroundings - surroundings which can help to enhance our shared humanity rather than treat us as technological adjuncts to the increasingly mechanistic world around us.
The legacy of misunderstanding and conflict between religions has a central role in the terrible history of war and violence. And" none more so of course, than the truly apocalyptic cruelty and destruction caused by the wo unholy, secular "religions" of Communism and Fascism.
Over the centuries, as societies have evolved, we can often see two' distinct reactions to this ruinous legacy. Some hold ever more tightly to their religion, as a source of stability in their lives - and, as conflicts rage, - they, I identify other traditions only as threats. Others become disenchanted 'with religion altogether; with the whole concept of metaphysics and a dimension beyond ourselves. They abandon any faith in God, and see religion itself as "backward," "primitive" and "wrong". This disenchantment and indifference poses a danger for our inheritance of faith, universal values and a 'living tradition. Coupled with an obsession with materialism and trivia, it is a across the world, not least to our own traditional Christian culture,
In Europe, it was partly in reaction to the apparently ceaseless wars between different Christian denominations that many sincere people came to think that if we could only create truly secular societies in which the bigotry, violence and pedantry that people associated with religion would disappear, the underlying sources of conflict would be removed, and we would all get on better. They hoped that if, in the place of institutionalized religion, the material wellbeing and security of the people could be enhanced and protected through the discoveries of science, then the march to harmony, progress and human happiness would continue unopposed.
Inevitably, it has not turned out to be quite so easy. As we are finding, scientific knowledge, which has brought us all so much that we value and are . privileged to take for granted, is not the same as Wisdom, For it is Wisdom . alone that can reveal to us those universal and eternal truths that lie at the ! heart of all the great traditions. In many people's lives today these truths, which provided our forefathers with a secure framework for their existence and with a clear set of ethical values, have become obscured, have disappeared entirely from their lives. This is not a phenomenon peculiar to , the West. We see it in each strand of the Abrahamic faiths.
The implications of this loss run deep. For I believe that moderation comes from the Wisdom passed down to us through tradition. Extremism exploits our loss of respect for tradition. Loss of religious certainty is pushing many to take refuge in new absolutes which, like any primitive belief, tolerate no doubt or reservation, but lead to various forms of extremism.
We need to recover the depth, the subtlety, the generosity of imagination, the respect for Wisdom that so marked Islam in its great ages. Islam called Jews and Christians the peoples of the book, because they, like Muslims are a part of a religion of sacred texts: the Koran, the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament. And what was so distinctive of the great ages of faith was that they understood that, as well as sacred texts, there is the art of interpretation of sacred texts - and this is a difficult and subtle art that gave rise in Islam to great principles of interpretation and great schools of jurisprudence.
Between the text and the meaning of the text - between the meaning of God's word for all time and its meaning for this time - falls the act of interpretation. It was Islam's greatness to understand this in its full depth and challenge. And this is what you, at this great and historic institution, can give not only to Islam, but, by example, to all the other children of Abraham.
Today, too often, there seems to be a tendency to read texts as if they needed no interpretation, as if we could read their meaning on the surface. That does violence to the Divine word, and violence to the word eventually leads to violence to the person, and to the world.
When all we can hear in sacred texts is simple certainties, when all we can see in God's multicoloured world is black and white, we begin to divide humanity into simple oppositions: the good and the evil; the pious and the profane; us and the enemy. And this then leads to hatred and violence. For it is then that we lose the single most important principle that unites the Abrahamic faiths: in Judaism, "Love your neighbour as yourself'3; in Christianity, "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them"4; and in Islam "No-one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
If we are to heed these teachings, to ensure that the voice of moderation can continue to be heard, and to oppose extremism, what do our understandings of God, implicit in our faiths, have to say that might help us? First of all, the Good Lord surely does not mean us to kill each other - that is in all our traditions. Secondly, in a world of abstractions, materialism and loss of spiritual meaning, surely those of us who share a faith in something beyond merely ourselves, beyond the ego and the passions, beyond the worship of science for its own sake, who have faith in a harmonious universe that balances mind, body and spirit, the heart and the head, in an understanding of the divine order that is God's mysterious and loving gift to the created world - surely we should be uniting together on the basis of our shared beliefs? Surely the wisdom I have referred to earlier should warn us that far from fighting each other, or arguing about futile abstractions, we should be working together in the face of the immense environmental crisis threatening our entire planet? What, then, can we learn from Islam that will help us re-integrate ourselves with Nature? Can we not see the urgent need before it is too late to blend the intuitive genius of the East with the practical genius of the West?
Central to the teachings of all our faiths is an emphasis on respect for each other. This is much more than a political argument about the rights of minorities. Muslims, Christians and Jews are united in believing in the dignity and value of the individual. Each of us is unique and of unique value to God. When we know ourselves, our frailties and weaknesses, we can see the importance of understanding towards others - of seeing the other's point of view.
Respect for others, and for what is precious to others - in other words good manners, civility, and a willingness to listen - ensures respect towards our own values and ideals. The recent ghastly strife and anger over the Danish cartoons shows the danger that comes of our failure to listen and to respect what is precious and sacred to others. In my view, the true mark of a civilized society is the respect it pays to minorities and to strangers. Generous, hospitable welcome to strangers and to those on their travels is justifiably a proud element of Arab culture. We in Britain have made great efforts to welcome people of other faiths, and to enable them to preserve their unique identities, while at the same time accommodating themselves to British culture. There are now more than a million and a half British Muslims. They enrich British society in countless ways, as, I am sure, do the Christian minorities in Muslim nations.
As people of faith, we know, too, that the human spirit is called to the horizon of eternity. We sense intuitively that we are too frequently focussed on the external world, which so often discounts what cannot be measured and weighed. But how can we measure or weigh Faith, Beauty, Loyalty, Joy, or indeed Love itself- all the things that make life worth living and help define the essence of our humanity? Do not these qualities represent an inner reality? And, when we speak of an inner reality, we are in fact speaking of that dimension which sees beyond the material - in other words, we are speaking once more of the heart. We speak metaphorically of the heart as the source of compassion - the "charity" to which St. Paul refers in one translation of the Bible5 - which, for Christians, is the supreme virtue.
When we face problems of understanding between cultures and religions, is not what is missing just that perception: the perception of the heart which is kind, moderate and full of acceptance? This is the perception in which we can all share and which is brought to mind by the writings and example of the great mystics in our different traditions - people like Julian of Norwich, Rabbi Isaac Luria, and Imam Muhammad Idris al-Shafi. Do not these great men and women, with their perennial wisdom, tell us of the need to balance our often aggressive and superficial behaviour with a more gentle, contemplative attitude - a turning from the head to that domain of the heart where the goodness in our common humanity is to be found? Let me be clear: this is not an argument about contemplative withdrawal, but rather a prescription for active engagement in our dealings with others. After all, we share together a tradition of revelation that has informed the very essence of our faiths. Interestingly, science is beginning to discover the order and harmony inherent within Nature -- something that was revealed to the ancients thousands of years ago. Surely this indicates a profound truth about the pattern of the inner life and its relationship with God's mysterious pattern for the manifested world?
I believe we have a shared duty to speak for the principles of our religious faiths. I believe we must protect the integrity of all our traditions -Muslim, Christian and Jewish - acknowledging and celebrating our rich diversity which, at the end of the day, is our only guarantee against the domination of a uniform, monocultural, global culture, whether religious or secular.
And I believe that, to defend the realm of the spirit against materialism, and the transcendent dignity of each one of us against extremism and self-idolatry, we must foster, encourage and act upon that which embodies the divine attributes of mercy and compassion. That calls for calmness and the exercise of restraint. And, if I may say so, it requires all those who are in positions of authority in our different faiths to preach clearly and consistently to others the eternal value of these Divine attributes.
Some three thousand years ago King Solomon, the son of David, said, "Where there is no vision, the people perish".6 I look forward to a world in which we share a vision that acknowledges our differences with respect and understanding; that recognises what others hold sacred - and to a world in which we see that we cannot, and must not, abuse our great traditions and their teachings as a weapon in the service of selfish, worldly power.
I have no illusions about the difficulty of this task. But I believe it is one which now, above all times, we must undertake, and undertake together. There is no other way to preserve the innermost values of our faiths which we hold most dear. We must work together to create a world in which the fruits of faith - understanding, tolerance and compassion - enrich and safeguard the world of our children, and our children's children. We must not let slip this opportunity and this challenge in an age which requires our determined, committed and heartfelt efforts to live in peace together.
Ovo je citav govor , ali samo na engleskom:
Your Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen, I have been enormously touched that you should have considered inviting me to speak at this most venerable and ancient place of worship and learning. You have done me the greatest honour through your invitation and I count it a very special privilege to visit the University of Al Azhar and, indeed, to return to Egypt - a country for which I have a particular affection and which, for many, has a sacred significance as the place of refuge for the child Jesus.
I want to begin by paying tribute to the man who first encouraged me to accept the invitation to speak here, a dear friend and graduate of this great university, Shaikh Zaki Badawi. His sudden-death in January was a profound shock and an immense sadness to many of us across the world. He was a man of real wisdom and learning. With the humility of a true scholar, he made his great knowledge accessible to others - and did so with an irresistible sense of humour.
I do not claim to be a scholar, other than having studied history at the University of Cambridge, but I do have a great interest in exploring the Abrahamic tradition into which I was born. This tradition has shaped me and made me who I am. Today I stand before you as one belonging to the family of faiths connected by that tradition.
The roots of the faith that we share in the One God, the God of Abraham, give us enduring values. We need the courage to speak of them and affirm them again and again to a world troubled by change and dissension. That is the message which, above all, I wish to leave you with today. First, and highest among those values of our common inheritance, and born of our love of God, must always come respect for each other, and for His creation. Our respect for all God's creatures and for the environment is the expression of our respect for the Creator whose inspiration is the entire manifest world.
Secondly, and following from this, our beliefs and values call out for peace aod" not conflict. We may have a human weakness to criticise and to compete with each other. But what we have in common, as people of faith, calls us beyond this towards mutual respect and understanding.
Thirdly, the great Abrahamic traditions speak of a faith which rests in the heart beyond the limitations of our intellectual knowledge and judgement. Wherever we are placed in our human society, whatever the advantages or disadvantages we have in ability or education, we perceive the truths of our faith with the 'eye of the heart'. The Prophet Moses reminded us that the heart is the seat of faith: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart"1. I believe that the great faiths speak through their sacred texts to the heart, and that faith itself is heart-felt.
But while I cherish the connections within the history of our different Abrahamic Faiths, I do not want you to imagine for one moment that I think that they are one and the same. There are differences, and we should celebrate them. But in the things that matter most, we have a common root. In my view, God's purpose should never be in doubt: it is to bind us closer together! Unity through diversity... Indeed, it has always moved me that the Holy Koran has a verse: "O Mankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other)."
I first voiced my thoughts publicly on relations betweel? Islam and the West in 1993, in a speech at another great university, Oxforu1. Something I said then has troubled me ever since. I said:
despite the advances in technology and mass communication in the second half of the twentieth century, despite mass travel and the intermingling of races...misunderstandings between Islam and the West continue. Indeed they may be growing.2
Tragically, the intervening twelve years have confirmed my fears and, for so many, those years have been profoundly bleak. My heart is heavy from witnessing the never-ending death and destruction - the kind of death and destruction I understand only too well, having experienced the loss of my beloved Great Uncle, Lord Mountbatten, at the hands of terrorist bombers in 1979. Images of communities torn apart by religious conflict are deeply harrowing -- from Bosnia to Baghdad, from Chechnya to Palestine -- evidence of just how far misunderstandings have continued and escalated. Violence, so often
justified in the name of religion, effects a terrible hardening of hearts. What good can possibly come of all of this?
In that same speech, I talked about the history of Europe and the Islamic world how they were inextricably entwined, and how, through the centuries, the giving and taking on both sides had contributed greatly to what we have become today. History shows what giant leaps of creativity in knowledge - in science, literature and the arts - have occurred when the members of the Abrahamic family have worked together. Can we not draw inspiration from the great explosion of knowledge and understanding which took place under the Abbassids between the ninth and thirteenth centuries, when their capital Baghdad was a world centre of learning; or from Islamic Spain between the tenth and the fourteenth centuries, when in cities such as Cordoba and Toledo, the work of Christian, Muslim and Jewish scholars led to the flowering of the Renaissance? We need to remember that we in the West are in debt to the scholars of Islam, for it was thanks to them that during the Dark Ages in Europe the treasures of classical learning were kept alive.
But in that same speech I also spoke of how, sadly, despite this fertile flow of ideas, many on both sides had still been left with uncompromising prejudices towards each other's cultures. This lingering mutual distrust persists, and with dreadful results. I think of the experience of Muslims living in Europe who are subject to varied and continuous expressions of Islamophobia by fellow-Europeans. I think of Christians living within some Muslim nations, who find themselves fettered by harsh and degrading restrictions, or subject to abuse by some of their fellow-citizens. And I think of dreadful acts of terrorism and violence across the world, carried out in the distorted name of faith.
I believe with all my heart that responsible men and women must work to restore mutual respect between faiths, and that we should do all we can to overcome the distrust that poisons so many people's lives. This, of course, is made infinitely more difficult by the stereotypes and absurdities propagated by certain sections of the Media. In my own very modest way, through the work of my Prince's Trust, my Foundation for the Built Environment and my School of Traditional Arts, I have sought to find ways to integrate communities and to celebrate the virtues of Islamic cultures in the United Kingdom. As these programmes develop across other countries, I hope that they may serve as a model for communities elsewhere. Even from small projects and examples the foundations of mutual respect, consideration and courtesy can be rebuilt, sometimes through the physical design of people's surroundings - surroundings which can help to enhance our shared humanity rather than treat us as technological adjuncts to the increasingly mechanistic world around us.
The legacy of misunderstanding and conflict between religions has a central role in the terrible history of war and violence. And" none more so of course, than the truly apocalyptic cruelty and destruction caused by the wo unholy, secular "religions" of Communism and Fascism.
Over the centuries, as societies have evolved, we can often see two' distinct reactions to this ruinous legacy. Some hold ever more tightly to their religion, as a source of stability in their lives - and, as conflicts rage, - they, I identify other traditions only as threats. Others become disenchanted 'with religion altogether; with the whole concept of metaphysics and a dimension beyond ourselves. They abandon any faith in God, and see religion itself as "backward," "primitive" and "wrong". This disenchantment and indifference poses a danger for our inheritance of faith, universal values and a 'living tradition. Coupled with an obsession with materialism and trivia, it is a across the world, not least to our own traditional Christian culture,
In Europe, it was partly in reaction to the apparently ceaseless wars between different Christian denominations that many sincere people came to think that if we could only create truly secular societies in which the bigotry, violence and pedantry that people associated with religion would disappear, the underlying sources of conflict would be removed, and we would all get on better. They hoped that if, in the place of institutionalized religion, the material wellbeing and security of the people could be enhanced and protected through the discoveries of science, then the march to harmony, progress and human happiness would continue unopposed.
Inevitably, it has not turned out to be quite so easy. As we are finding, scientific knowledge, which has brought us all so much that we value and are . privileged to take for granted, is not the same as Wisdom, For it is Wisdom . alone that can reveal to us those universal and eternal truths that lie at the ! heart of all the great traditions. In many people's lives today these truths, which provided our forefathers with a secure framework for their existence and with a clear set of ethical values, have become obscured, have disappeared entirely from their lives. This is not a phenomenon peculiar to , the West. We see it in each strand of the Abrahamic faiths.
The implications of this loss run deep. For I believe that moderation comes from the Wisdom passed down to us through tradition. Extremism exploits our loss of respect for tradition. Loss of religious certainty is pushing many to take refuge in new absolutes which, like any primitive belief, tolerate no doubt or reservation, but lead to various forms of extremism.
We need to recover the depth, the subtlety, the generosity of imagination, the respect for Wisdom that so marked Islam in its great ages. Islam called Jews and Christians the peoples of the book, because they, like Muslims are a part of a religion of sacred texts: the Koran, the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament. And what was so distinctive of the great ages of faith was that they understood that, as well as sacred texts, there is the art of interpretation of sacred texts - and this is a difficult and subtle art that gave rise in Islam to great principles of interpretation and great schools of jurisprudence.
Between the text and the meaning of the text - between the meaning of God's word for all time and its meaning for this time - falls the act of interpretation. It was Islam's greatness to understand this in its full depth and challenge. And this is what you, at this great and historic institution, can give not only to Islam, but, by example, to all the other children of Abraham.
Today, too often, there seems to be a tendency to read texts as if they needed no interpretation, as if we could read their meaning on the surface. That does violence to the Divine word, and violence to the word eventually leads to violence to the person, and to the world.
When all we can hear in sacred texts is simple certainties, when all we can see in God's multicoloured world is black and white, we begin to divide humanity into simple oppositions: the good and the evil; the pious and the profane; us and the enemy. And this then leads to hatred and violence. For it is then that we lose the single most important principle that unites the Abrahamic faiths: in Judaism, "Love your neighbour as yourself'3; in Christianity, "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them"4; and in Islam "No-one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
If we are to heed these teachings, to ensure that the voice of moderation can continue to be heard, and to oppose extremism, what do our understandings of God, implicit in our faiths, have to say that might help us? First of all, the Good Lord surely does not mean us to kill each other - that is in all our traditions. Secondly, in a world of abstractions, materialism and loss of spiritual meaning, surely those of us who share a faith in something beyond merely ourselves, beyond the ego and the passions, beyond the worship of science for its own sake, who have faith in a harmonious universe that balances mind, body and spirit, the heart and the head, in an understanding of the divine order that is God's mysterious and loving gift to the created world - surely we should be uniting together on the basis of our shared beliefs? Surely the wisdom I have referred to earlier should warn us that far from fighting each other, or arguing about futile abstractions, we should be working together in the face of the immense environmental crisis threatening our entire planet? What, then, can we learn from Islam that will help us re-integrate ourselves with Nature? Can we not see the urgent need before it is too late to blend the intuitive genius of the East with the practical genius of the West?
Central to the teachings of all our faiths is an emphasis on respect for each other. This is much more than a political argument about the rights of minorities. Muslims, Christians and Jews are united in believing in the dignity and value of the individual. Each of us is unique and of unique value to God. When we know ourselves, our frailties and weaknesses, we can see the importance of understanding towards others - of seeing the other's point of view.
Respect for others, and for what is precious to others - in other words good manners, civility, and a willingness to listen - ensures respect towards our own values and ideals. The recent ghastly strife and anger over the Danish cartoons shows the danger that comes of our failure to listen and to respect what is precious and sacred to others. In my view, the true mark of a civilized society is the respect it pays to minorities and to strangers. Generous, hospitable welcome to strangers and to those on their travels is justifiably a proud element of Arab culture. We in Britain have made great efforts to welcome people of other faiths, and to enable them to preserve their unique identities, while at the same time accommodating themselves to British culture. There are now more than a million and a half British Muslims. They enrich British society in countless ways, as, I am sure, do the Christian minorities in Muslim nations.
As people of faith, we know, too, that the human spirit is called to the horizon of eternity. We sense intuitively that we are too frequently focussed on the external world, which so often discounts what cannot be measured and weighed. But how can we measure or weigh Faith, Beauty, Loyalty, Joy, or indeed Love itself- all the things that make life worth living and help define the essence of our humanity? Do not these qualities represent an inner reality? And, when we speak of an inner reality, we are in fact speaking of that dimension which sees beyond the material - in other words, we are speaking once more of the heart. We speak metaphorically of the heart as the source of compassion - the "charity" to which St. Paul refers in one translation of the Bible5 - which, for Christians, is the supreme virtue.
When we face problems of understanding between cultures and religions, is not what is missing just that perception: the perception of the heart which is kind, moderate and full of acceptance? This is the perception in which we can all share and which is brought to mind by the writings and example of the great mystics in our different traditions - people like Julian of Norwich, Rabbi Isaac Luria, and Imam Muhammad Idris al-Shafi. Do not these great men and women, with their perennial wisdom, tell us of the need to balance our often aggressive and superficial behaviour with a more gentle, contemplative attitude - a turning from the head to that domain of the heart where the goodness in our common humanity is to be found? Let me be clear: this is not an argument about contemplative withdrawal, but rather a prescription for active engagement in our dealings with others. After all, we share together a tradition of revelation that has informed the very essence of our faiths. Interestingly, science is beginning to discover the order and harmony inherent within Nature -- something that was revealed to the ancients thousands of years ago. Surely this indicates a profound truth about the pattern of the inner life and its relationship with God's mysterious pattern for the manifested world?
I believe we have a shared duty to speak for the principles of our religious faiths. I believe we must protect the integrity of all our traditions -Muslim, Christian and Jewish - acknowledging and celebrating our rich diversity which, at the end of the day, is our only guarantee against the domination of a uniform, monocultural, global culture, whether religious or secular.
And I believe that, to defend the realm of the spirit against materialism, and the transcendent dignity of each one of us against extremism and self-idolatry, we must foster, encourage and act upon that which embodies the divine attributes of mercy and compassion. That calls for calmness and the exercise of restraint. And, if I may say so, it requires all those who are in positions of authority in our different faiths to preach clearly and consistently to others the eternal value of these Divine attributes.
Some three thousand years ago King Solomon, the son of David, said, "Where there is no vision, the people perish".6 I look forward to a world in which we share a vision that acknowledges our differences with respect and understanding; that recognises what others hold sacred - and to a world in which we see that we cannot, and must not, abuse our great traditions and their teachings as a weapon in the service of selfish, worldly power.
I have no illusions about the difficulty of this task. But I believe it is one which now, above all times, we must undertake, and undertake together. There is no other way to preserve the innermost values of our faiths which we hold most dear. We must work together to create a world in which the fruits of faith - understanding, tolerance and compassion - enrich and safeguard the world of our children, and our children's children. We must not let slip this opportunity and this challenge in an age which requires our determined, committed and heartfelt efforts to live in peace together.
-
Bosanac sa dna kace
- Posts: 10147
- Joined: 27/06/2005 20:21
- Location: ponutrače
#3
Sead ef. Agic glavni imam IZ BiH za SAD tvrdi da je engleska kraljevska porodica muslimanskog porijekla! 
mene interesuje na osnovu cega tvrdi? 
mene interesuje na osnovu cega tvrdi? 
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#7
Qler wrote:ja mislio i on presao na islam:D:D
Bismillah!
Insallah
CHARLES'S PUBLIC STATEMENTS ABOUT ISLAM
The future Charles III has made several strong public statements endorsing Islam as the solution to the spiritual and cultural ills of Britain and the West. His public advocacy of Islam appears to go back to 1989, when Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued an edict (fatwa) against Salman Rushdie, a British citizen, for blaspheming the Prophet Muhammad in his novel The Satanic Verses.6 Rather than defend Rushdie's freedom of speech, Charles reacted to the death decree by reflecting on the positive features that Islam has to offer the spiritually empty lives of his countrymen.
Charles first delivered a major address on Islam on October 27, 1993, at the Sheldonian Theatre at Oxford where he is a vice patron of the Centre for Islamic Studies.7 He declared that the usual attitude to Islam
suffers because the way we understand it has been hijacked by the extreme and the superficial. To many of us in the West, Islam is seen in terms of the tragic civil war in Lebanon, the killings and bombings perpetrated by extremist groups in the Middle East, and by what is commonly referred to as "Islamic fundamentalism."
The Prince of Wales then explained the causes for this distorted understanding:
Our judgement of Islam has been grossly distorted by taking the extremes to the norm. . . . For example, people in this country frequently argue that the Sharia law of the Islamic world is cruel, barbaric and unjust. Our newspapers, above all, love to peddle those unthinking prejudices. The truth is, of course, different and always more complex. My own understanding is that extremes, like the cutting off of hands, are rarely practised. The guiding principle and spirit of Islamic law, taken straight from the Qur'an, should be those of equity and compassion.
Charles suggests that European women may even find something to envy in the situation of their Muslim sisters:
Islamic countries like Turkey, Egypt and Syria gave women the vote as early as Europe did its women-and much earlier than in Switzerland! In those countries women have long enjoyed equal pay, and the opportunity to play a full working role in their societies.
Charles considers Christianity inadequate to the task of spiritual restoration and denigrates science for having caused the West to lose its spiritual moorings. Echoing a common Muslim theme, he declares that "Western civilisation has become increasingly acquisitive and exploitive in defiance of our environmental responsibilities." Instead, he praises the "Islamic revival" of the 1980s and portrays Islam as Britain's salvation:
Islam can teach us today a way of understanding and living in the world which Christianity itself is poorer for having lost. At the heart of Islam is its preservation of an integral view of the Universe. Islam-like Buddhism and Hinduism-refuses to separate man and nature, religion and science, mind and matter, and has preserved a metaphysical and unified view of ourselves and the world around us. . . . But the West gradually lost this integrated vision of the world with Copernicus and Descartes and the coming of the scientific revolution. A comprehensive philosophy of nature is no longer part of our everyday beliefs.
He concludes by suggesting that "there are things for us to learn in this system of belief which I suggest we ignore at our peril."
Among the many titles borne by the British sovereign is "Defender of the Faith," a reference to the fact that the monarch heads not only the government but also the Church of England. But the prince has reservations about this title. In a June 1994 television documentary he declared his preference to be known as "Defender of Faith" rather than "Defender of the Faith,"8 leading to a rash of speculation that he favors the disestablishment of the Church of England.9
Charles has continued to discuss the role of Islam in the United Kingdom. In a speech at the Foreign Office Conference Centre at Wilton Park in Sussex on December 13, 1996, he called on Islamic pedagogy and philosophy to help young Britons develop a healthier view of the world.10 Praising Islamic culture in its traditional form for trying to preserve an "integrated, spiritual view of the world in a way we have not seen fit to do in recent generations in the West," he went on to say:
There is much we can learn from that Islamic world view in this respect. There are many ways in which mutual understanding and appreciation can be built. Perhaps, for instance, we could begin by having more Muslim teachers in British schools, or by encouraging exchanges of teachers. Everywhere in the world people want to learn English. But in the West, in turn, we need to be taught by Islamic teachers how to learn with our hearts, as well as our heads.
The results of this study will help Westerners
to rethink, and for the better, our practical stewardship of man and his environment-in fields such as health-care, the natural environment and agriculture, as well as in architecture and urban planning.
In addition to these comments on Islam, Charles has taken steps to give that religion a special status. For example, he set up a panel of twelve "wise men" (in fact, eleven men and one woman) to advise him on Islamic religion and culture.11 This caused much talk, especially as the group was reported to have met in secret. Some noted that no comparable body exists to inform the crown prince about other faiths practiced in his future realm.
REACTIONS
Muslim world. Charles has traveled extensively in the Muslim world, with recent visits to Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, and Bangladesh. He has visited Turkey so often that some observers believe that to be the country where his rumored conversion to Islam took place. In addition, he has visited mosques in the United Kingdom, for example, dropping in on one at the end of Ramadan in April 1996.
Some offices of the British government have found a practical use for the prince's affection for Islam. In particular, the Foreign Office uses him as a point man for British business interests in Muslim countries, leading one journalist to comment that "the Charles of Arabia phenomenon is here to stay," for it helps assure British commerce with the Muslim world.12
Although some Britons may be bewildered at Prince Charles's infatuation with Islam, he has become a hero among Muslims. His February 1997 visit to Saudi Arabia
got moderate coverage in the British press-but it was huge news in the host country. In Saudi Arabia, the overwhelming theme of the welcoming addresses was of the Prince as candid friend of the Islamic world. The warmth of his welcome was extraordinary.
The writer of this account, John Casey of Cambridge University, warns that the British public lacks a clear understanding of Charles's standing in the Muslim world:
The extent to which the Prince is admired by Muslims-even to the point of hero-worship-has not yet sunk into the consciousness of the British public. When it does, that public may or may not be pleased.
Casey concludes that the prince of Wales's "hero status" in the Arab world is permanent. "No other Western figure commands this sort of admiration."13
Charles's Muslim admirers can be generous in their gratitude. At a private dinner with prince Charles in May 1997, Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia announced a donation by King Fahd of $33 million to Oxford University to construct a new Centre for Islamic Studies at Oxford, a gift designed "to establish Islamic studies at the heart of the British education system."14
Great Britain. Charles's speeches provoked a flurry of comments in England. In the popular perception, he is a spiritual dilettante, something of a religious butterfly, flitting from faith to faith and veering, increasingly, towards Islam. . . . The sight of the Prince in yet another prayer shawl only compounds the image of a well-intentioned eccentric seeking divine inspiration.15
Others wonder if Charles is aware of the punishments Islamic law metes out to adulterers-and whether he "exacted some sort of guarantee" before traveling to the Muslim world that he would not be "stoned or beaten by devout Saudi or Bangladeshi natives."16
Some Englishmen took their prince's statements more seriously. Patrick Sookhdeo, director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, raised questions about the coherence of Charles's approach to Islam, commenting that "It is not fair to compare the best ideals of the Islamic faith with the worst of Western cultural decadence." Sookhdeo also reminded Charles that many Muslims see in Western traditions the solution to their own problems:
What do Muslims living in a Muslim context feel? Are they content to continue submitting to authority in every detail of their lives? Many are not. We hear much about radical Islamists seeking an even closer adherence to the original teachings of Islam. But we hear little about the opposite phenomenon: the Muslims who are attracted by democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, respect for the rights and worth of the individual and other characteristics of Western society.17
Another commentator reversed Charles's argument and held that some of Britain's million and a half Muslims need instruction in British values:
it would be interesting to know who they [the Muslim leaders with whom Charles associates] are. Do they include Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad, who supports Hamas, agitates for an Islamic state, and recently called for homosexuals to fling themselves off Big Ben? Or the dissident Dr. al-Mas'ari, who has used the new freedom of speech which we in this country have given him to call for the extermination of the Jews?18
Prime Minister John Major reacted to Charles's sentiment about wanting to be known as "Defender of Faith" with the understated comment that "it would be a little odd if Prince Charles was defender of faiths of which he was not a member."19
The conflict between Charles's enthusiasm for Islam and his subjects' leeriness played itself out recently at Oxford, where the reaction to King Fahd's huge gift to the Islamic center met with little enthusiasm. Oxford faculty oppose the gift, claiming its proposed location-on a greenfield site near the heart of the city-would constitute "overdevelopment."20 Presumably their ecological opposition hides other motives as well.
Interestingly, Charles himself has mildly experienced the wrath of fundamentalist Islam. Just after Ayatollah Khomeini issued his death decree against Salman Rushdie, Charles was in the Persian Gulf and Tehran radio denounced his presence there "as a snub to Islam."21 Because of "heightened security concerns in the wake of Muslim furor over The Satanic Verses,"22 the prince was forced to withdraw from a polo match in Dubai. But this brush with Muslim extremists has not dissuaded Charles from reassuring others that Islam's problem is only one of image.
It bears noting that Charles is not the royal family's only link to the Muslim world, for Princess Diana, Charles's ex-wife, has often been linked to Hasnat Khan, a London-based cardiac surgeon. Just as Charles donned a Muslim prayer shawl, Di wore a traditional shalwar kameez during her visit to Khan's family in Pakistan. London's Sunday Mirror23 reports that Khan's family has approved a possible marriage of the divorced 35-year-old princess and their son, then quoted the princess (via a "friend") to the effect that she hoped Khan would father a half-sister to her two sons, princes William and Harry. While Diana's divorce from the heir to the British throne removes her personally from the royal family, her sons could be the first heirs to the British throne with a Muslim stepfather.
-
Bosanac sa dna kace
- Posts: 10147
- Joined: 27/06/2005 20:21
- Location: ponutrače
#8
jakako, samo bismilom!Haqqani wrote:Qler wrote:ja mislio i on presao na islam
Bismillah!
Insallah
Dum spiro, spero!
-
pravi-put
- Posts: 142
- Joined: 12/03/2006 15:52
#9
Kada bi on primio islam , vjerovatno bi zavrsio kao i princeza Dijana,jakako, samo bismilom!
Dum spiro, spero!
Ali mozda bi se izvinuo za maskre i terorisanje muslimana koja se trenuto odvijaju u Afganistanu, Iraku, i ko zna sve jos ... !!!
Dok ne primi islam ja mu ne vjerujem, dosta nas zmija puta iz iste rupe ujela, i previse puta!!!
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#10
Bismillah!pravi-put wrote:Kada bi on primio islam , vjerovatno bi zavrsio kao i princeza Dijana,jakako, samo bismilom!
Dum spiro, spero!
Ali mozda bi se izvinuo za maskre i terorisanje muslimana koja se trenuto odvijaju u Afganistanu, Iraku, i ko zna sve jos ... !!!
Dok ne primi islam ja mu ne vjerujem, dosta nas zmija puta iz iste rupe ujela, i previse puta!!!
Mislis da kada bi i primio Islam , da bi to iznio u javnost?
-
Murisno1
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: 06/10/2005 09:10
- Location: Sarajevo
#11
ja mislim da bi ...Haqqani wrote:Bismillah!pravi-put wrote:Kada bi on primio islam , vjerovatno bi zavrsio kao i princeza Dijana,jakako, samo bismilom!
Dum spiro, spero!
Ali mozda bi se izvinuo za maskre i terorisanje muslimana koja se trenuto odvijaju u Afganistanu, Iraku, i ko zna sve jos ... !!!
Dok ne primi islam ja mu ne vjerujem, dosta nas zmija puta iz iste rupe ujela, i previse puta!!!
Mislis da kada bi i primio Islam , da bi to iznio u javnost?
jer ako ,da kažem,smogne hrabrosti da primi Islam onda bi imao i više nego dovoljno hrabrosti iznijeti to u javnost ..
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#12
Bismillah!
Pravo zboris, ali nije u pitanju hrabrost, nego mudrost. Ja sam pohadjao srednju muzicku skolu u generaciji u kojoj su dvije profesorice i pet ucenika primili Islam, i vjeruj mi , veoma je mudro bilo sutiti u tim prvim mjesecima, a Allah najbolje zna.
Pravo zboris, ali nije u pitanju hrabrost, nego mudrost. Ja sam pohadjao srednju muzicku skolu u generaciji u kojoj su dvije profesorice i pet ucenika primili Islam, i vjeruj mi , veoma je mudro bilo sutiti u tim prvim mjesecima, a Allah najbolje zna.
-
Murisno1
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: 06/10/2005 09:10
- Location: Sarajevo
#13
Ma stoji prijatelju . Opet značajan faktor je i sredina , a s obzirom da se radi o princu UK , bilo bi mu mudrije da šutiHaqqani wrote:Bismillah!
Pravo zboris, ali nije u pitanju hrabrost, nego mudrost. Ja sam pohadjao srednju muzicku skolu u generaciji u kojoj su dvije profesorice i pet ucenika primili Islam, i vjeruj mi , veoma je mudro bilo sutiti u tim prvim mjesecima, a Allah najbolje zna.
-
edu
- Posts: 7895
- Joined: 30/11/2004 15:25
#14
Bismillah!Haqqani wrote:Bismillah!
Pravo zboris, ali nije u pitanju hrabrost, nego mudrost. Ja sam pohadjao srednju muzicku skolu u generaciji u kojoj su dvije profesorice i pet ucenika primili Islam, i vjeruj mi , veoma je mudro bilo sutiti u tim prvim mjesecima, a Allah najbolje zna.
ja sam cuo da je po islamu zabranjeno slusanje (valjda i bavljenje..) muzike..osim nekoliko instrumenata..a kojih to pise u Kur'anu..je li to istina?
Bismillah!
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#15
edu wrote:Bismillah!Haqqani wrote:Bismillah!
Pravo zboris, ali nije u pitanju hrabrost, nego mudrost. Ja sam pohadjao srednju muzicku skolu u generaciji u kojoj su dvije profesorice i pet ucenika primili Islam, i vjeruj mi , veoma je mudro bilo sutiti u tim prvim mjesecima, a Allah najbolje zna.
ja sam cuo da je po islamu zabranjeno slusanje (valjda i bavljenje..) muzike..osim nekoliko instrumenata..a kojih to pise u Kur'anu..je li to istina?
Bismillah!
Bismillah!
Koliko tebi znaci sta pise u Kur`anu???
-
Murisno1
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: 06/10/2005 09:10
- Location: Sarajevo
#17
Ulema se manje-više razilazi u mišljenju oko toga ali ipak jači su argumenti na strani onih koji tvrde da je zabranjeno ...edu wrote:Bismillah!Haqqani wrote:Bismillah!
Pravo zboris, ali nije u pitanju hrabrost, nego mudrost. Ja sam pohadjao srednju muzicku skolu u generaciji u kojoj su dvije profesorice i pet ucenika primili Islam, i vjeruj mi , veoma je mudro bilo sutiti u tim prvim mjesecima, a Allah najbolje zna.
ja sam cuo da je po islamu zabranjeno slusanje (valjda i bavljenje..) muzike..osim nekoliko instrumenata..a kojih to pise u Kur'anu..je li to istina?
Bismillah!
a ovo sa Bismillah! baš je prikladno vama SDP-mudrašima ...
-
Murisno1
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: 06/10/2005 09:10
- Location: Sarajevo
#19
eto ga ...još jedna u vašem fazonu.. to je vaš vid komunikacije..edu wrote:ako je zabranjeno..kako je onda haqanni mogao ici u srednju muzicku?..zar i to nije protivno onome sto pise u Kur'anu?
kakve veze ima Bismillah i SDP?..odnosno vjera i politika?..ne moras bas u svemu oponasati reisa cerica...
da si makar malo isključio taj svoj antiislamski stav u mozgu , jasno bi vidio da nisam ni približno htio mješati vjeru i politiku a kamoli oponašati reisa ..
a nemam vala ni volje nešto ti pojašnjavat ... šta ću ti ja ...
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#20
edu wrote:Bismillah!
svako ce odgovarati za svoje ne/djela..prema tome imas li ti ista od toga koliko meni znaci nesto sto pise u Kur'anu?
hoces li mi odgovoriti na pitanje?
Bismillah!
Bismillah!
Muzika je jedna od najciscih kreacija svemocnog Boga. On je Taj koji je postavio ton i ritam svakog zvuka u Svemiru. Muzika i pjesma, kao i sve ostale Bozije kreacije, mogu biti koristeni na dozvoljen nacin, a mogu biti i zloupotrebljeni. I jedno i drugo, i muzika i pjevanje, stvoreni su cisti i lijepi - kao svjez zrak i svjeza voda. Ali, oni mogu biti i pokvareni ili zagadjeni od strane zlocinitelja. Medjutim, pokvarenost neke muzike, predstava ili pjesama ne cini svu muziku i pjesme haramom(zabranjenim). Upravo kao sto zagadjenost neke vode i svjezeg zraka od strane pojedinaca nece uciniti svu vodu i zrak zagadjenim.
Svaki iskreni musliman koji slijedi Kuran nece naci u Kuranu NIKAKVU ZABRANU, bilo to u vezi MUZIKE, bilo u vezi PJEVANJA. Bog je veoma odredjen i njegove komande su veoma jasne sto se tice bilo koje zabrane date u Kuranu. Bog, Najmilostiviji, NIKADA nije zabranio muziku ili pjevanje u Kuranu.
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#22
edu wrote:ako je zabranjeno..kako je onda haqanni mogao ici u srednju muzicku?..zar i to nije protivno onome sto pise u Kur'anu?
kakve veze ima Bismillah i SDP?..odnosno vjera i politika?..ne moras bas u svemu oponasati reisa cerica...
Bismillah!
Haqqani je isao u muzicku skolu , dok je jos zivio u neznanju i zabludi.
-
edu
- Posts: 7895
- Joined: 30/11/2004 15:25
#23
Bismillah!Haqqani wrote: Bismillah!
Muzika je jedna od najciscih kreacija svemocnog Boga. On je Taj koji je postavio ton i ritam svakog zvuka u Svemiru. Muzika i pjesma, kao i sve ostale Bozije kreacije, mogu biti koristeni na dozvoljen nacin, a mogu biti i zloupotrebljeni. I jedno i drugo, i muzika i pjevanje, stvoreni su cisti i lijepi - kao svjez zrak i svjeza voda. Ali, oni mogu biti i pokvareni ili zagadjeni od strane zlocinitelja. Medjutim, pokvarenost neke muzike, predstava ili pjesama ne cini svu muziku i pjesme haramom(zabranjenim). Upravo kao sto zagadjenost neke vode i svjezeg zraka od strane pojedinaca nece uciniti svu vodu i zrak zagadjenim.
Svaki iskreni musliman koji slijedi Kuran nece naci u Kuranu NIKAKVU ZABRANU, bilo to u vezi MUZIKE, bilo u vezi PJEVANJA. Bog je veoma odredjen i njegove komande su veoma jasne sto se tice bilo koje zabrane date u Kuranu. Bog, Najmilostiviji, NIKADA nije zabranio muziku ili pjevanje u Kuranu.
kaze murisino..
"Ulema se manje-više razilazi u mišljenju oko toga ali ipak jači su argumenti na strani onih koji tvrde da je zabranjeno ..."
a ti kazes..
"Bog, Najmilostiviji, NIKADA nije zabranio muziku ili pjevanje u Kuranu.."
je li moguce da je murisino u pravu..tj. da ti zivis "jos uvijek u neznanju i zabludi"?!..ili je moguce da murisino "jos uvijek zivi u neznanju i zabludi"?
malo ste mi nejasni..kako Ulema moze misliti suprotno od onoga sto je rekao Bog?!
-
Haqqani
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: 06/12/2005 10:49
#24
Bismillah!edu wrote:Bismillah!Haqqani wrote: Bismillah!
Muzika je jedna od najciscih kreacija svemocnog Boga. On je Taj koji je postavio ton i ritam svakog zvuka u Svemiru. Muzika i pjesma, kao i sve ostale Bozije kreacije, mogu biti koristeni na dozvoljen nacin, a mogu biti i zloupotrebljeni. I jedno i drugo, i muzika i pjevanje, stvoreni su cisti i lijepi - kao svjez zrak i svjeza voda. Ali, oni mogu biti i pokvareni ili zagadjeni od strane zlocinitelja. Medjutim, pokvarenost neke muzike, predstava ili pjesama ne cini svu muziku i pjesme haramom(zabranjenim). Upravo kao sto zagadjenost neke vode i svjezeg zraka od strane pojedinaca nece uciniti svu vodu i zrak zagadjenim.
Svaki iskreni musliman koji slijedi Kuran nece naci u Kuranu NIKAKVU ZABRANU, bilo to u vezi MUZIKE, bilo u vezi PJEVANJA. Bog je veoma odredjen i njegove komande su veoma jasne sto se tice bilo koje zabrane date u Kuranu. Bog, Najmilostiviji, NIKADA nije zabranio muziku ili pjevanje u Kuranu.
kaze murisino..
"Ulema se manje-više razilazi u mišljenju oko toga ali ipak jači su argumenti na strani onih koji tvrde da je zabranjeno ..."
a ti kazes..
"Bog, Najmilostiviji, NIKADA nije zabranio muziku ili pjevanje u Kuranu.."
je li moguce da je murisino u pravu..tj. da ti zivis "jos uvijek u neznanju i zabludi"?!..ili je moguce da murisino "jos uvijek zivi u neznanju i zabludi"?
malo ste mi nejasni..kako Ulema moze misliti suprotno od onoga sto je rekao Bog?!
Ti bas slabo kontas neke stvari!
Allah dž.š. nije u Kur`anu ni na jednom mjestu spomenuo muziku , niti instrumente, ni u pozitivnom ni u negativnom kontekstu. Medjutim , iz predaja Allahovog Poslanika s.a.v.s. dolazimo do zakljucka da je muzika u najmanju ruku nepozeljna.
Naime , za muslimana je najljepsa muzika , ucenje Kur`ana, i musliman nema nikakve potrebe za nekom drugom muzikom, ali opet sve zavisi na kojem se stepenu nalazi vjernik, nekada neke stvari treba malo razblaziti ...
PRONADJI RAZLIKU :
-
Murisno1
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: 06/10/2005 09:10
- Location: Sarajevo
#25
ako želiš da ti odgovorim po kontekstu postova iznad, onda onda bi odgovor bio nikakve ... nije mi to bila poenta. Znajući da si na nekoj od predhodnih tema oštro branio svog Zlatka i njegovu partijicu (da razjasnim nisam SDA-ovac) ,predpostavio sam da si SDP-simpatizer, a znajući kako se oni/vi ophodite prema sagovornicima , doduše samo kad se borite za vlast , ono tvoje sa Bismillah! mi je ličilo na nako neku zafrkanciju na uštrb kolege Haqanija . Eh te zafrkancije , a nije moralo biti Bismillah , u ovom slučaju jeste , su mi ličile na SDP kolege ..edu wrote:nikakav problem..ako nekad budes skont'o odgovor..pitanje ce ti biti tu..
kakve veze ima Bismillah i SDP?..odnosno vjera i politika?..
ako mi pak to pitanje postavljaš onako 1/ofrlje ... bez učešća postova prije, onda bi odgovor bio onako još duži , ali nebitan ... jer smatram da nebi htio takav odgovor a što je još bolnije ni eventualno ovaj , a ni onaj gore odgovor nema ama baš nikakve veze sa temom!
Uzdravlje!