Sud u Becu je osudio britanskog istoricara Davida Irving-a na tri godine zpog poricanja Holocausta.
Irving je izjavio da je pogrijesio kada je rekao da nije bilo gasnih komora u Auschwitz-u.
Pitam se kakve li ce kazne dobiti navijaci SiCG za one parole "Noz, zica Srebrenica", kao i pojedini politicari i javni radnici koji minimiziraju dogadjaje u Srebrenici?
David Irving
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Eshek
- Posts: 2421
- Joined: 12/11/2004 00:21
- Location: Dunya
#2
Najgoru kaznu. Biće društvo jedni drugima...Možeš misliti kako su bijedni i blijedi likovi koji trčkaraju okolo s takvim transparentima. A sad malo zamisli sijelo takve bagre. Za njih ti je intelektualac onaj koji muze kozu, a ne prči je. Bolje pakao, nego živjeti s takvom "prosvijećenom rajom".
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Edin H.
- Posts: 53964
- Joined: 08/10/2004 22:36
- Location: Tirana
#3
David Irving jailed for Holocaust denial
Staff and agencies
Monday February 20, 2006
The British revisionist historian and Nazi apologist David Irving was today sentenced to three years in prison after he admitted denying the Holocaust.
An eight-member jury at a court in Vienna convicted Irving, 68, a few hours after it began its deliberations on the first day of his trial.
Irving had pleaded guilty to denying the Holocaust in two speeches on a visit to Austria in 1989, but said at the trial that he had later changed his views.
The speeches included a call for an end to the "gas chambers fairy tale", and claims that Adolf Hitler had helped Europe's Jews and that the Holocaust was a myth.
Irving told the court today he had revised his opinion after seeing the personal files of Adolf Eichmann. Speaking in German, he told the court he now accepted that the Nazis had killed millions of Jews.
At one stage, while giving evidence, he expressed sorrow for "all the innocent people" who died during the war. "I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," he said.
Austria has the world's stiffest laws against denying the Holocaust and Irving could have faced a maximum of 10 years in prison.
The defence had called for leniency, citing his admission and his claims that he had changed his viewpoint.
The prosecution, however, had accused Irving of changing his position as a "tactic" to escape a harsh sentence, and said the historian was an icon for neo-Nazis and revisionists around the world.
Irving appeared shocked as the sentence was read out. Moments later, an elderly man who identified himself only as a family friend called out: "Stay strong, David - stay strong," before he was escorted from the courtroom.
Irving's lawyer Elmar Kresbach immediately announced he would appeal the sentence. "I consider the verdict a little too stringent. I would say it's a bit of a message trial".
This morning, when he arrived at court, Irving told reporters: "History is a constantly growing tree - the more you know, the more documents become available, the more you learn. And I have learned a lot since 1989.
"Yes, there were gas chambers. Millions of Jews died. There is no question. I don't know the figures. I'm not an expert on the Holocaust."
Irving, who has written around 30 books, said he considered it "ridiculous" that he was standing trial for remarks made 17 years ago.
Handcuffed and wearing a navy blue suit, he arrived at the court carrying a copy of one of his most controversial books, Hitler's War, which challenges the extent of the Holocaust.
Later in court he said he had never written a book about the Holocaust, which he called "just a fragment of my area of interest".
The controversial historian has been in custody since he was arrested in November while driving in southern Austria, despite being barred from the country. He had been on his way to address an extreme-right student fraternity in Vienna.
In 2000, Irving sued the US Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt for libel at the British high court and lost. The presiding judge in that case, Charles Gray, wrote that Irving was "an active Holocaust denier ... anti-Semitic and racist".
He was fined several thousand pounds in 1992 in Germany for saying the Auschwitz gas chambers were a hoax.
He is said to have spent recent months in prison awaiting trial after he was denied bail writing his memoirs, under the working title Irving's War. His lawyer said last month Irving was getting up to 300 fan letters a week from supporters around the world.
Irving has contended in the past that most of the people who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz were not murdered but rather succumbed to typhus and other diseases
Staff and agencies
Monday February 20, 2006
The British revisionist historian and Nazi apologist David Irving was today sentenced to three years in prison after he admitted denying the Holocaust.
An eight-member jury at a court in Vienna convicted Irving, 68, a few hours after it began its deliberations on the first day of his trial.
Irving had pleaded guilty to denying the Holocaust in two speeches on a visit to Austria in 1989, but said at the trial that he had later changed his views.
The speeches included a call for an end to the "gas chambers fairy tale", and claims that Adolf Hitler had helped Europe's Jews and that the Holocaust was a myth.
Irving told the court today he had revised his opinion after seeing the personal files of Adolf Eichmann. Speaking in German, he told the court he now accepted that the Nazis had killed millions of Jews.
At one stage, while giving evidence, he expressed sorrow for "all the innocent people" who died during the war. "I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," he said.
Austria has the world's stiffest laws against denying the Holocaust and Irving could have faced a maximum of 10 years in prison.
The defence had called for leniency, citing his admission and his claims that he had changed his viewpoint.
The prosecution, however, had accused Irving of changing his position as a "tactic" to escape a harsh sentence, and said the historian was an icon for neo-Nazis and revisionists around the world.
Irving appeared shocked as the sentence was read out. Moments later, an elderly man who identified himself only as a family friend called out: "Stay strong, David - stay strong," before he was escorted from the courtroom.
Irving's lawyer Elmar Kresbach immediately announced he would appeal the sentence. "I consider the verdict a little too stringent. I would say it's a bit of a message trial".
This morning, when he arrived at court, Irving told reporters: "History is a constantly growing tree - the more you know, the more documents become available, the more you learn. And I have learned a lot since 1989.
"Yes, there were gas chambers. Millions of Jews died. There is no question. I don't know the figures. I'm not an expert on the Holocaust."
Irving, who has written around 30 books, said he considered it "ridiculous" that he was standing trial for remarks made 17 years ago.
Handcuffed and wearing a navy blue suit, he arrived at the court carrying a copy of one of his most controversial books, Hitler's War, which challenges the extent of the Holocaust.
Later in court he said he had never written a book about the Holocaust, which he called "just a fragment of my area of interest".
The controversial historian has been in custody since he was arrested in November while driving in southern Austria, despite being barred from the country. He had been on his way to address an extreme-right student fraternity in Vienna.
In 2000, Irving sued the US Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt for libel at the British high court and lost. The presiding judge in that case, Charles Gray, wrote that Irving was "an active Holocaust denier ... anti-Semitic and racist".
He was fined several thousand pounds in 1992 in Germany for saying the Auschwitz gas chambers were a hoax.
He is said to have spent recent months in prison awaiting trial after he was denied bail writing his memoirs, under the working title Irving's War. His lawyer said last month Irving was getting up to 300 fan letters a week from supporters around the world.
Irving has contended in the past that most of the people who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz were not murdered but rather succumbed to typhus and other diseases
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da pamtis
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: 16/07/2005 14:10
#4
Zasto bi neko bio kaznjen zbog minimiziranja Srebrenice?? Sta je to Srebrenica? "Ljudi koji su odgovorni za Srebrenicu danas zive u Evropi" . Kako onda covjek od te iste evrope da ocekuje nekakve kazne zbog minimiziranja Srebrenice.....Pitam se kakve li ce kazne dobiti navijaci SiCG za one parole "Noz, zica Srebrenica", kao i pojedini politicari i javni radnici koji minimiziraju dogadjaje u Srebrenici?
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digger
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: 03/12/2004 02:10
- Location: blizina Toronta
#5
Interesantno je da su Irving-ova pisanja pomogla nekima da potvrde svoje teorije oko ubistva nekih 6 miliona Jevreja. Jedan je Ernst Zundel, naturalizovani kanadjanin njemackog porijekla, koji je trenutno u zatvoru u Njemackoj ocekujuci sudjenje.
Naravno, jedan je i nasa "cvijećka" Fatmir Alispahić, koji je napisao ovako:
... Krematoriji su posebna prica. Zvanicna historija tvrdi da su nacisti u roku od deset minuta kremirali tijela ubijenih, a nauka tvrdi da je za taj proces potrebno dva sata. Navodi se i da nigdje nije pronadjena deponija pepela, a od sest miliona kremiranih Jevreja bi se stvorilo makar jedno brdo sljake. Ovi naucnici (valjda kao spomenuti D. Irving) smatraju da je podatak o sest miliona ubijenih Jevreja obicna laz, jer je na teritorijama pod nacistickom kontrolom bilo cetiri miliona Jevreja, od kojih su dva miliona pobjegla u Rusiju. Navodno je stradalo tek 300.000 Jevreja, i to od posljedica tifusa i iscrpljenosti u konc-logorima. Kljucni argument je navodni sporazum cionista i nacista o preseljenju Jevreja iz Njemacke, s ciljem formiranja Izraela, a zasta su bile zainteresirane obje strane. Sve drugo je predstava.
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Da ponovim po stoti put: Holokost, Srebrenica, Ruanda, Mandzurija, i slicna mjesta ne smiju da se zaborave. Jos vaznije, ne smiju da se upotrebljavaju za politicke ciljeve i izivljavanje pojedinaca.
Nije slucajno da Iran odrzava konferenciju kojom zele da da na neki nacin uticu na istoriju holokosta. Bice interesantno ko ce sa Zapada da ucestvuje i ciji "istorijski" radovi ce se uzeti kao "dokazi."
Naravno, jedan je i nasa "cvijećka" Fatmir Alispahić, koji je napisao ovako:
... Krematoriji su posebna prica. Zvanicna historija tvrdi da su nacisti u roku od deset minuta kremirali tijela ubijenih, a nauka tvrdi da je za taj proces potrebno dva sata. Navodi se i da nigdje nije pronadjena deponija pepela, a od sest miliona kremiranih Jevreja bi se stvorilo makar jedno brdo sljake. Ovi naucnici (valjda kao spomenuti D. Irving) smatraju da je podatak o sest miliona ubijenih Jevreja obicna laz, jer je na teritorijama pod nacistickom kontrolom bilo cetiri miliona Jevreja, od kojih su dva miliona pobjegla u Rusiju. Navodno je stradalo tek 300.000 Jevreja, i to od posljedica tifusa i iscrpljenosti u konc-logorima. Kljucni argument je navodni sporazum cionista i nacista o preseljenju Jevreja iz Njemacke, s ciljem formiranja Izraela, a zasta su bile zainteresirane obje strane. Sve drugo je predstava.
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Da ponovim po stoti put: Holokost, Srebrenica, Ruanda, Mandzurija, i slicna mjesta ne smiju da se zaborave. Jos vaznije, ne smiju da se upotrebljavaju za politicke ciljeve i izivljavanje pojedinaca.
Nije slucajno da Iran odrzava konferenciju kojom zele da da na neki nacin uticu na istoriju holokosta. Bice interesantno ko ce sa Zapada da ucestvuje i ciji "istorijski" radovi ce se uzeti kao "dokazi."
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#7
Lako bi Fatmir da je samo Austrija u pitanjuEdin H. wrote:Svaka cast na ovome postu digger.
Sada je jasno od koga je Fatmir prepisao svoje tvrdnje.
Iskoristio bih ovu priliku da predlozim Fatmiru da odgodi planirano skijanje u Austriji
BBC wrote: COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland
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the_stick
- Posts: 1170
- Joined: 16/02/2002 00:00
#8
sve same zemlje sa 'slobodom govora'... nisam od tih koji poricu holocaust... ali stavljati holocaust ispred svih ostalih genocida?????? zabranjeno negirati holocaust, a ne samo da nije zabranjeno negirati srebrenicu, nego je nije zabranjeno ni velicati!Prenj wrote:Lako bi Fatmir da je samo Austrija u pitanjuEdin H. wrote:Svaka cast na ovome postu digger.
Sada je jasno od koga je Fatmir prepisao svoje tvrdnje.
Iskoristio bih ovu priliku da predlozim Fatmiru da odgodi planirano skijanje u Austriji
BBC wrote: COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland
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Bosanac sa dna kace
- Posts: 10147
- Joined: 27/06/2005 20:21
- Location: ponutrače
#9
A zar to nije sloboda stampe, govora i izrazavanja? 
Zar ono sto je Fatmir napisao nije sloboda stampe i izravzavanja?
Zar ono sto je Fatmir napisao nije sloboda stampe i izravzavanja?
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#11
Fino ti pise da sve ove zemlje imaju ZAKON protiv negiranja holokausta.the_stick wrote:sve same zemlje sa 'slobodom govora'... nisam od tih koji poricu holocaust... ali stavljati holocaust ispred svih ostalih genocida?????? zabranjeno negirati holocaust, a ne samo da nije zabranjeno negirati srebrenicu, nego je nije zabranjeno ni velicati!Prenj wrote:Lako bi Fatmir da je samo Austrija u pitanjuEdin H. wrote:Svaka cast na ovome postu digger.
Sada je jasno od koga je Fatmir prepisao svoje tvrdnje.
Iskoristio bih ovu priliku da predlozim Fatmiru da odgodi planirano skijanje u Austriji
BBC wrote: COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland
Mi zakon koji bi sankcionisao negiranje zlocina u Srebrenici NEMAMO.
Zasto ga nemamo, to je pravo pitanje!
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digger
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: 03/12/2004 02:10
- Location: blizina Toronta
#12
Nisi u pravu. Niko nista ne "zabranjuje." Srebrenica ostaje kao sto ostaje i holokost.the_stick wrote:... nisam od tih koji poricu holocaust... ali stavljati holocaust ispred svih ostalih genocida? zabranjeno negirati holocaust, a ne samo da nije zabranjeno negirati srebrenicu, nego je nije zabranjeno ni velicati!
Holokost nije ispred svih ali je prihvacen od svijeta kao genocidni primjer generalnih razmjera koji ne bi trebao da se ponovi.
Problem je kada Ms D. Johnston napise da je Srebrenica "mozda" slucaj za oko 300 ljudi a ne 8000, ili Irving kada tvrdi da je 6 mil. bila naduvana cifra. Jednom kada ubace nekima takvog "crva" u glavu, tesko je da takvi mogu da i pored svih mogucih dokaza prihvate realne podatke.
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da pamtis
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: 16/07/2005 14:10
#13
Lud totalnoIrving expands on Holocaust views
Irving interview
Jailed British historian David Irving has again said he does not believe Hitler presided over a systematic attempt to exterminate Jews in Europe.
During his trial in Austria, Irving said he had changed his mind over claims the Holocaust did not happen.
But, speaking from his cell later, he told BBC News the numbers killed at Auschwitz were smaller than claimed.
He is appealing for a reduction in the three-year jail term. Prosecutors are seeking for it to be lengthened.
The Austrian state prosecutor's office said it believed Irving's sentence for Holocaust denial was too lenient in light of a possible sentence of up to 10 years.
If there was an extermination programme to kill all the Jews, how come so many survived?
David Irving
The prosecutor also deemed the sentence too light because of "Irving's special importance to right-wing radicals", a spokesman for the office said.
The historian pleaded guilty in his one-day trial in Vienna on 20 February.
In court, the 67-year-old admitted that in 1989 he had denied that Nazi Germany had killed millions of Jews.
Speaking from prison, where he is in solitary confinement for 23 hours each day, Irving told BBC Radio 4's Today programme he now believed there had been cases of Jewish people being gassed during World War II.
But he said that while he accepted 1.4 million were killed in the so-called "Operation Reinhard" camps which included Treblinka and Sobibor, he did not accept that large numbers were murdered at Auschwitz.
He claimed there were two "small" gas chambers there, not the large-scale gas chambers identified by other historians.
"Given the ruthless efficiency of the Germans, if there was an extermination programme to kill all the Jews, how come so many survived?" he said.
COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland
Timeline: David Irving
Denying the Holocaust
When asked whether there was an organised programme to exterminate the Jews in Europe, overseen by Hitler, Irving told Today: "That is absolutely wrong and nobody can justify that.
"Adolf Hitler's own involvement in it has a big question mark behind it."
The trial against Irving arose from comments he made in Austria in 1989 denying the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz.
Austria is one of 11 countries with laws against denying the Holocaust.
The historian previously said that he doubted the Holocaust's existence until he saw the personal files of Adolf Eichmann, the chief organiser of the Holocaust.
Gas chamber 'hoax'
"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now," Irving told the court.
"The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."
In the past, he had claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little, if anything, about the Holocaust, and that the gas chambers were a hoax.
Irving's lawyer has said his client is unlikely to serve the full three-year term because of various factors, including his age.
Speaking on Today, Richard Evans, professor of German history at Cambridge University and a witness against Irving at a libel trial in 2000, dismissed the latest comments.
"He was, I think, arrogant enough to believe that he wouldn't be arrested," said Professor Evans.
"But having said that, I think the Austrian action is ill-advised. I don't think that law which bans Holocaust denial is really necessary any longer and I think it's really regrettable the vast media circus that's surrounding Mr Irving now [is] just simply giving prominence to his absurd views."
, sad ce umjesto trice dobiti desetku