A question about Religion and Albania

[novel]

Ja mislim da si ti Midas Bosanac, i da se samo malo za*ebavas s nama. Am I right, or..?

"skljoco" spreha inglish

[Last_one]

I,m living in Bosnia and I never met any Serb or Croat who called himself BOSNAK!
Only Bosnian Croat or Bosnian Serb!Let's be realistic...Bosniaks are Bosnians Muslims....It is like that!!!!

[Midas1970]

Ok ... Clear.... Thanks....

[mr__bosnjak]

Last One, this is clear...
But, this is what I'm trying to understand: If there's a ethnically mixed group of Bosnian people and if I refer to them as "Bosniaks", will I be offending the Serbs and the Croats ?

Also, what are the Bosnian words for: Bosnian and Bosniak ?

OK,I see that I have to be more clear!
First,I am not shore that word "offend" is really correct!I don't know where you from but it is same if you asking "Would Italian offend if you calling him French and abouth of them living in Swiss?!!!"It is a same thing.Serb or Croat is not Bosniak....
BOSNIAK is actually quite new name for muslims in Balkan.A 13 years ago there were not such name and whole Muslims called them Muslims...

That is false. Bosniak (in Bosnian language: Bosnjak) is the term that was used during middle ages for Slav people that lived in Bosnia, after that during Ottoman period, and after that during Austro-Hungarian period. In Serb dominated Yugoslavia that term was banned.

During Tito's Yugoslavia, there were some efforts by Hamdija Pozderac, a Bosniak leader to bring that name back in 1970s, but these attempts failed due to the fact that Serb and Croat nationalists/communists didnt let Bosniaks have influence in Yugoslavia. They wanted to have domination over Bosnia, actually they didnt want to recognize Bosnia as a state, but thanks to Tito, Bosnia became federal unit in Yugoslavia.

In 1990s Bosniaks returned their historical name, but Croat and Serb nationalism was so strong that orthodox and catholic population turned to Serbia and Croatia, not Bosnia.

So, Bosniaks are now mostly muslims by religion that live in Bosnia. That is ethnicity which is primarly identified with Bosnia as their homeland, and Bosnian language as their mother tongue.

Croats in Bosnia are mostly catholics, that once called themselves Bosniaks as well as nowdays Bosnian Serbs, but as I said they turned to Croatia and Serbia because of these historical events.

Bosnian and Bosniak are actually synonyms, Bosnian is a modern term for Bosniak, but nowdays Bosnian doesnt have the same meaning because Serbs and Croats dont recognize this term as a national identification.

Here Midas you got the answer.

@Last_One

De bolan sta ti je? Kontam ja to sve ali sto se tol´ko napaljujes da stalno pokazujes kako i ko su Bosnjaci? Ne znam ako uvidjas ali ovaj tip tvoje odgovore najvise voli. Razmisli zasto...

[sule_krug]

Are there any Croats that define themselves as "Catholic Bosniaks" or are there any Serbs that define themselves as "Orthodox Bosniaks" ? If the answer is yes, is this a common self-definition? Thanks again....

there is some serbs and croats that consider themselves as a bosniaks but that number is small , so most people see it way as others want it , and that is bosniak =muslim.
this should't be neccesary right because of history of bosniaks, but since most chatolics and orthodox want's to be serb or croat let it be.


and now something about albanians.
they never had neeeds for religous divide because they have no serbs or croats. this is it.so simple.serbs and croats were always separeting themselves from others as superior people.
naw there is one fact

every 4th croat is of bosnian descent.
as croatia used to be divided as dalmatia, slavonia, istra, and so on
all these people dalmatians , slavonians, istrans, are descents of other people, not croats or croatia.


same thing with serbia
if you take a look in today serbia you'lll find it divided by regions, and not only by regions but also divided by ethnicity
for example vojvodina, sandjak, kosovo
or bosniaks , muslims, albanians madjars

balkans is so complicated because of long history of conflict.

[mr__bosnjak]

Are there any Croats that define themselves as "Catholic Bosniaks" or are there any Serbs that define themselves as "Orthodox Bosniaks" ? If the answer is yes, is this a common self-definition? Thanks again....

there is some orthodoxes and catcholics that consider themselves as a bosniaks but that number is small , so most people see it way as others want it , and that is bosniak =muslim.
this should't be neccesary right because of history of bosniaks, but since most chatolics and orthodox want's to be serb or croat let it be.


and now something about albanians.
they never had neeeds for religous divide because they have no serbs or croats. this is it.so simple.serbs and croats were always separeting themselves from others as superior people.
naw there is one fact

every 4th croat is of bosnian descent.
as croatia used to be divided as dalmatia, slavonia, istra, and so on
all these people dalmatians , slavonians, istrans, are descents of other people, not croats or croatia.


same thing with serbia
if you take a look in today serbia you'lll find it divided by regions, and not only by regions but also divided by ethnicity
for example vojvodina, sandjak, kosovo
or bosniaks , muslims, albanians madjars

balkans is so complicated because of long history of conflict.

correction

[array]

I'm trying to understand, how Albanians managed not to get divided along ethnic lines, based on their religion. They seem to be the only nation in the Balkans that has managed to do that.

You are wrong on this one, Midas. Not a single nation on the Balkans is divided along ethnic lines, not just the Albanians. You see, both Albanian christians and muslims are a single nation - Albanians. Therefore, they cannot be divided along ethnic lines but they can be divided along religious lines. On the other hand you have Bosniaks, Serbs, and Croats. None of these three separate nations is divided inside but they do have problems with each other just like the Albanians have problems with the Serbs.
Remeber, Bosniaks, Serbs, and Croats are not a single nation.

[Midas1970]

Array, I was coming from the assumption that Bosniak, Croat and Serb used to be the same ethnicity long time ago, and got divided into different ethnicities, mainly based on the religions they choose.

I believe there are similar instances in the Balkans. Like Pomaks who are Muslim Bulgarians but define themselves as a seperate ethnicity, not as Bulgarians ( I think ).

I believe every ethnicity in the Balkans ( Serb, Greek, Turk, Croat, Bulgarian, Bosniak, Romanian, Macedon etc. etc. ) is heavily dominated ( probably by more than 95% ) by one religion only. I find it worthwhile to examine that, Albanians stand out in that crowd undivided into seperate ethnicities based on their religion, even though the ratio is something like 70-30.

[array]

Array, I was coming from the assumption that Bosniak, Croat and Serb used to be the same ethnicity long time ago, and got divided into different ethnicities, mainly based on the religions they choose.

Your assumption is not correct. They were separate tribes (or nations) before they become christians or muslims.

I believe every ethnicity in the Balkans ( Serb, Greek, Turk, Croat, Bulgarian, Bosniak, Romanian, Macedon etc. etc. ) is heavily dominated ( probably by more than 95% ) by one religion only.

You are correct about this one but this does not apply to the Balkan nations only. The same is true for most other nations on the entire world, including the Turks.

[Batonus]

Midas there was no ethnic separation, which we know today till Ottoman Empire came to Balkans...

Bosniaks (Boshnians - old name) were all Bosniaks living in Bosnian Kingdom, same goes for Serbs in Serbian Kingdom,and Croats for Croatia.

They all were nations, not ethnic groups. You probably know that nations are defined by soverign teritory,lanugage,tradition,main religion, and ethnic groups are defined by all the same,except the soverign teritory...