Kojim jezikom mi pričamo?

[davis.ba]

Nakon što sam slučajno naletio na jednu stranicu u vezi izbora u svijetu i vidio da je link za BiH pokvaren i da pored linka stoji kao jezik u kojem je stranica napisana Serbo-Croatian odlučio sam ukratko da obavjestim administratora stranice za te greške.

Samo ukratko sam napisao greške i to je to bilo:

Hi i'm writing to inform you that there is a broken link on electionresources.org on the link for election results for Bosna and Herzegovina. I think the right link would be http://www.izbori.ba/

Also right to the link it's written that the page is in language Serbo-Croatian. That language doesn't exist. In Bosna there are three offical languages, Bosnain, Croatian, and Serbian. I would like if you could change these mistakes.

Thank you.

I nakon što sam mislio da je to samo puka formalnost nakon dva-tri dana dobivam odgovor i onda počinje pametovanje:

Hi i'm writing to inform you that there is a broken link on
> electionresources.org on the link for election results for Bosna and
> Herzegovina. I think the right link would be http://www.izbori.ba/
>

Thanks for pointing this out - I have updated that link.

> Also right to the link it's written that the page is in language
> Serbo-Croatian. That language doesn't exist. In Bosna there are three
> offical languages, Bosnain, Croatian, and Serbian. I would like if you
> could
> change these mistakes.
>

I beg to differ.

According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica,

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9378268

"Most Bosnians, Serbs, and Croats insist that their language
is distinct from the others, and, perhaps, from a political
perspective this is understandable; but most linguists consider
Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian a single language, which has
historically been called Serbo-Croatian."

I'll change my site to refer to the separate languages the day
Encyclopaedia Britannica stars to differentiate them as such.

Sincerely,

Prilično iznenađen na to odgovorim:

Thanks for answering.

I can tell you that I live in Bosnia and I definitley know what I am talking about. Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian may be one language in terms of their similarity and some linguists can consider it to be one language but officialy that's not the truth. Also in that article it isn't mentionid what the official language is, just some history about south slavic language. The name is definitley not Serbo-Croatian.


"'ll change my site to refer to the separate languages the day
Encyclopaedia Britannica stars to differentiate them as such."

Here it is:

"Capital: Sarajevo. Major ethnic groups include Bosniacs
(Bosnia n Muslims; about two-fifths of the population),
Serbs (about one-third), and Croats (about one-fifth).
Languages: Bosnia n, Serbian, Croatian (all official)."

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9 ... Bosnia&ct=

Best regards.

I onda slijedi njegov odgovor:

I checked the Encyclopaedia Britannica 2006 Book of the Year,
and the Language pages on the World Data section list Croatian
as Serbo-Croatian (Croatian) for Croatia, and Serbian as Serbo-
Croatian (Serbian) for Serbia. Then, for Bosnia & Herzegovina
there's Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian, but a footnote states
that "Figures given represent ethnolinguistic groups".

Bottom line, EB has it both ways, and so do I now.

Nakon ovoga promjenio je tako što je pored Serbo-Croatian dodao u zagradi i sva tri oficijelna jezika. Ovdje me je pravo iznervirao.

I really don't understand why do you insist on Serbo-Croatian? I told you that I live in Bosnia nad that I KNOW that there is no Serbo-Crotaian language. That was in the previous sistem in komunism which was a sintetic mix and in Croatia the language was called Croatian-Serbian, and in Serbia Serbo-Croatian and we didn't have a right to call our language Bosnian. Now that we do I think it is correct that you also respect that. You said that when Britannica writes that Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian are offical languages that you will correct it. I showed you the link for that and then it is still no good?

Britannica doesn't have it both ways, there is a clear definition what are the official languagees. There is no Serbo-Croatian language! That doesn't exist at all, not in Croatia, not in Serbia and for sure not i Bosnia and Hercegovina and nobody uses that expression. You can't write that some web site is written in one language which it isn't and not to mention that that language (Serbo-Croatian) doesn't exist at all. Serbo-Croatian is mentioned in Britannica as a previous form that was used in komunism as the name of the official language and that is all.

Don't think that Bosnian is just a new name that someone invented. The first signes of the Bosnian language were in 12. century in a document of ban Kulin that was written in cyrillic.

The official languages:

Bosnia:
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9 ... nguage&ct=

Also you can't write after the link for Croatia that it is written in Serbo-Croatian (Croatian) because that is nonsense.

Croatia:
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9 ... nguage&ct=


Here is another link as prove:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/bk.html

and this site is very up to date.



http://www.izbori.ba is web site made in Bosnia and Hercegovina and you can see on that site on the right that there are options for Bosnian(Bosanski), Crotatian(Hrvatski) and Serbian(Srpski) when you want to download some documents. No where is mentioned Serbo-Croatian.

It doesn't exist as a language today, and definitely it isn't official in Bosnia and Hercegovina so the web site (izbori.ba) can't be written in Serbo-Croatian.

Best regards.

I onda slijedi novo pametovanje:

Hello,


From "Bosnia and Herzegovina > The people > Language",

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-42666

"The mother tongue of the vast majority is the Serbo-Croatian
language, but it is now known as Serbian, Croatian, or Bosnian,
depending on the speaker's ethnic and political affiliation."

And from "Slavic Languages",

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9378862

"The Slavic family is usually divided into three subgroups:
West Slavic, comprising Polish, Slovak, Czech, and Sorbian;
East Slavic, comprising Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian;
and South Slavic, comprising Slovene, Serbo-Croatian,
Bulgarian, and Macedonian."

There are no Britannica entries for the "Bosnian", "Croatian"
or "Serbian" languages: if I search for them, I get a list of
alternative references, beginning with the previously cited
"Serbo-Croatian" entry,

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9378268

which defines it as a:

"South Slavic language spoken by some 21 million people in
Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia and Montenegro."

while also indicating that:

"With the independence of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1992, a
Bosnian form of the language was recognized of necessity."

If all of the above doesn't amount to having it both ways, I
don't know what will.

Moreover, I should note that the EB 2006 Book of the Year's
World Data language statistics pages list Serbo-Croatian as
one of the languages spoken by minorities in both Slovenia
and Macedonia.

I also know that since the breakup of the late, unlamented
Yugoslavia in 1991-92, there have been ongoing efforts to
differentiate the forms of Serbo-Croatian spoken in Croatia,
Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbia, largely on the grounds that
the single language is in the minds of many still associated
with Pan-Serbianism (all the more so since the Serb form of
Serbo-Croatian was the one taught at schools in the old
days). But these efforts notwithstanding, I am still of
the view that politics aside, they are all dialects of a
same language - although eventually they may evolve into
separate (yet closely related) languages.

While I haven't had the opportunity to visit your country, I
should note that for more than a decade I lived in one place
where the Serb and Croat communities always got along very
well - Pittsburgh, PA. As such, it's a great pleasure to
exchange opinions on topics like these: it's been quite
enlightening, but now it's time for me to move on.

So long,

Moj odgovor:

"I am still of
the view that politics aside, they are all dialects of a
same language"

This is true, and that's not in question, but obviously you don't understand what official means.

Moram reći da mi je ovdje došlo da šaljem mail i Britannici ali nisam imao više živaca pa bih zamolio da svako pošalje neki konstruktivan mail kome god misli da je potrebno.

[Al-aqsa]

S obzirom da je moja domovina Bosna, s obzirom da sam bosanac, da am rodjen odrastao skolovao se zaljubio se u Bosni, nemoze biti nikako drugacije nego da je i moj maternji jezik BOSANSKI (s ponosom)!!

Ako hrvati imaju pravo da u Bosni pricaju na 'rvtaskom, ako srbi u Bosni mogu pricati na srbskom, zasto ja kao bosanac nebi mogao pricati na svom Bosanskom jeziku....!?

...Dakle, ja govorim Bosanskim jezikom.

[spongebob]

Nemoj ovu prepisku uzeti previse licno . Puca njima *urac za nasa podjebavanja. Srpsko-hrvatski je jezik koji vecinski postoji na skoro svim univerzitetima gdje god da se nasao, jer je to tradicija a od nje se tesko odviknut. A to je naziv jezika kojeg smo oficijelno prije 15-tak godina svi prihvatali

[davis.ba]

Ma nisam uzeo lično ali šta glumi kad fino stoji koji je zvanični jezik? On našao nešta lingvisitčki pametovati ko je u pravu i ko nije a nije bio sposoban u britannici naći da su bosanski, hrvatski, sprski zvanični jezici, a zna nalaziti nekakve historije jezika i izvoditi zaključke.

[Hadzi-Murat]

Trebao si mu reci: pogledaj na Wikipediji i onako je postala popularnija od Britanice, a besplatna je...

http://en.wikipedia.org

[davis.ba]

Ma bio sam krenuo ali onda uvijek neko može reći, eh wikipediu može svako uređivati pa zato nisam.

Ali i u Britannici mu sve piše, našao sam mu link.

[rashid]

Ma bio sam krenuo ali onda uvijek neko može reći, eh wikipediu može svako uređivati pa zato nisam.

Ali i u Britannici mu sve piše, našao sam mu link.

Hocemo li da ga bijemo?

[Šole]

Službeni jezici u BiH su:Bosanski, Srpski i Hrvatski

[Lace]

Nakon što sam slučajno naletio na jednu stranicu u vezi izbora u svijetu i vidio da je link za BiH pokvaren i da pored linka stoji kao jezik u kojem je stranica napisana Serbo-Croatian odlučio sam ukratko da obavjestim administratora stranice za te greške.

Samo ukratko sam napisao greške i to je to bilo:

Hi i'm writing to inform you that there is a broken link on electionresources.org on the link for election results for Bosna and Herzegovina. I think the right link would be http://www.izbori.ba/

Also right to the link it's written that the page is in language Serbo-Croatian. That language doesn't exist. In Bosna there are three offical languages, Bosnain, Croatian, and Serbian. I would like if you could change these mistakes.

Thank you.

I nakon što sam mislio da je to samo puka formalnost nakon dva-tri dana dobivam odgovor i onda počinje pametovanje:

Hi i'm writing to inform you that there is a broken link on
> electionresources.org on the link for election results for Bosna and
> Herzegovina. I think the right link would be http://www.izbori.ba/
>

Thanks for pointing this out - I have updated that link.

> Also right to the link it's written that the page is in language
> Serbo-Croatian. That language doesn't exist. In Bosna there are three
> offical languages, Bosnain, Croatian, and Serbian. I would like if you
> could
> change these mistakes.
>

I beg to differ.

According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica,

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9378268

"Most Bosnians, Serbs, and Croats insist that their language
is distinct from the others, and, perhaps, from a political
perspective this is understandable; but most linguists consider
Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian a single language, which has
historically been called Serbo-Croatian."

I'll change my site to refer to the separate languages the day
Encyclopaedia Britannica stars to differentiate them as such.

Sincerely,

Prilično iznenađen na to odgovorim:

Thanks for answering.

I can tell you that I live in Bosnia and I definitley know what I am talking about. Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian may be one language in terms of their similarity and some linguists can consider it to be one language but officialy that's not the truth. Also in that article it isn't mentionid what the official language is, just some history about south slavic language. The name is definitley not Serbo-Croatian.


"'ll change my site to refer to the separate languages the day
Encyclopaedia Britannica stars to differentiate them as such."

Here it is:

"Capital: Sarajevo. Major ethnic groups include Bosniacs
(Bosnia n Muslims; about two-fifths of the population),
Serbs (about one-third), and Croats (about one-fifth).
Languages: Bosnia n, Serbian, Croatian (all official)."

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9 ... Bosnia&ct=

Best regards.

I onda slijedi njegov odgovor:

I checked the Encyclopaedia Britannica 2006 Book of the Year,
and the Language pages on the World Data section list Croatian
as Serbo-Croatian (Croatian) for Croatia, and Serbian as Serbo-
Croatian (Serbian) for Serbia. Then, for Bosnia & Herzegovina
there's Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian, but a footnote states
that "Figures given represent ethnolinguistic groups".

Bottom line, EB has it both ways, and so do I now.

Nakon ovoga promjenio je tako što je pored Serbo-Croatian dodao u zagradi i sva tri oficijelna jezika. Ovdje me je pravo iznervirao.

I really don't understand why do you insist on Serbo-Croatian? I told you that I live in Bosnia nad that I KNOW that there is no Serbo-Crotaian language. That was in the previous sistem in komunism which was a sintetic mix and in Croatia the language was called Croatian-Serbian, and in Serbia Serbo-Croatian and we didn't have a right to call our language Bosnian. Now that we do I think it is correct that you also respect that. You said that when Britannica writes that Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian are offical languages that you will correct it. I showed you the link for that and then it is still no good?

Britannica doesn't have it both ways, there is a clear definition what are the official languagees. There is no Serbo-Croatian language! That doesn't exist at all, not in Croatia, not in Serbia and for sure not i Bosnia and Hercegovina and nobody uses that expression. You can't write that some web site is written in one language which it isn't and not to mention that that language (Serbo-Croatian) doesn't exist at all. Serbo-Croatian is mentioned in Britannica as a previous form that was used in komunism as the name of the official language and that is all.

Don't think that Bosnian is just a new name that someone invented. The first signes of the Bosnian language were in 12. century in a document of ban Kulin that was written in cyrillic.

The official languages:

Bosnia:
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9 ... nguage&ct=

Also you can't write after the link for Croatia that it is written in Serbo-Croatian (Croatian) because that is nonsense.

Croatia:
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9 ... nguage&ct=


Here is another link as prove:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/bk.html

and this site is very up to date.



http://www.izbori.ba is web site made in Bosnia and Hercegovina and you can see on that site on the right that there are options for Bosnian(Bosanski), Crotatian(Hrvatski) and Serbian(Srpski) when you want to download some documents. No where is mentioned Serbo-Croatian.

It doesn't exist as a language today, and definitely it isn't official in Bosnia and Hercegovina so the web site (izbori.ba) can't be written in Serbo-Croatian.

Best regards.

I onda slijedi novo pametovanje:

Hello,


From "Bosnia and Herzegovina > The people > Language",

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-42666

"The mother tongue of the vast majority is the Serbo-Croatian
language, but it is now known as Serbian, Croatian, or Bosnian,
depending on the speaker's ethnic and political affiliation."

And from "Slavic Languages",

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9378862

"The Slavic family is usually divided into three subgroups:
West Slavic, comprising Polish, Slovak, Czech, and Sorbian;
East Slavic, comprising Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian;
and South Slavic, comprising Slovene, Serbo-Croatian,
Bulgarian, and Macedonian."

There are no Britannica entries for the "Bosnian", "Croatian"
or "Serbian" languages: if I search for them, I get a list of
alternative references, beginning with the previously cited
"Serbo-Croatian" entry,

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9378268

which defines it as a:

"South Slavic language spoken by some 21 million people in
Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia and Montenegro."

while also indicating that:

"With the independence of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1992, a
Bosnian form of the language was recognized of necessity."

If all of the above doesn't amount to having it both ways, I
don't know what will.

Moreover, I should note that the EB 2006 Book of the Year's
World Data language statistics pages list Serbo-Croatian as
one of the languages spoken by minorities in both Slovenia
and Macedonia.

I also know that since the breakup of the late, unlamented
Yugoslavia in 1991-92, there have been ongoing efforts to
differentiate the forms of Serbo-Croatian spoken in Croatia,
Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbia, largely on the grounds that
the single language is in the minds of many still associated
with Pan-Serbianism (all the more so since the Serb form of
Serbo-Croatian was the one taught at schools in the old
days). But these efforts notwithstanding, I am still of
the view that politics aside, they are all dialects of a
same language - although eventually they may evolve into
separate (yet closely related) languages.

While I haven't had the opportunity to visit your country, I
should note that for more than a decade I lived in one place
where the Serb and Croat communities always got along very
well - Pittsburgh, PA. As such, it's a great pleasure to
exchange opinions on topics like these: it's been quite
enlightening, but now it's time for me to move on.

So long,

Moj odgovor:

"I am still of
the view that politics aside, they are all dialects of a
same language"

This is true, and that's not in question, but obviously you don't understand what official means.

Moram reći da mi je ovdje došlo da šaljem mail i Britannici ali nisam imao više živaca pa bih zamolio da svako pošalje neki konstruktivan mail kome god misli da je potrebno.

ocekivala sam da ces poslati mail britanici...nakon njegovog prvog odgovora

[Lace]

Službeni jezici u BiH su:Bosanski, Srpski i Hrvatski

to nije sporno...sva tri su sluzbena jezika ali se kao takvi trebaju i navesti...cak su i na dejtonskom navedena sva tri + engleski....abecednim redom

i definitivno treba obavijestiti britanicu da su kombinacije tj nazivi jezika: srpsko-hrvatski i hrvatsko-srpski...napustene jos 91 osnosno 92-e (pocetkom rata u skoli je postojao "maternji" jezik a u stranim organizacijama su ga nazivali "lokalni"...dok se nije nasao kompromis bosanski/hrvatski/srpski - abecedno kao na licnim kartama ili bosanski/srpski/hrvatski - da ne budu srbi uvijek zadnji tj. kao na pasosima )

blago nama kada nam je jezik problem a nezaposlenost nije problem

[forUMASH]

...the crazy one fucked confuse one......
....ko nam je kriv kad smo jedini na dunjaluku koji crnski i gorski racunaju kao dva razlicita jezika........i jos povrh svega, trosimo drzavne pare na prevod sluzbenih dokumenata u tri kopije....

[mr__bosnjak]

Bravo davis.ba to on sa tim Hrvatima i Srbima iz Pittburga pric´o pa ga oni nagovorili da nema bosanskog. Kakvo s´anje. Haj jebi gakad ne zna sta je sluzbeno a sta nije.

[ztluhcs]

ocekivala sam da ces poslati mail britanici...nakon njegovog prvog odgovora

Mislim da oni ne mijenjaju "slu¾bene" podatke ako ih neko "fino zamoli" preko maila

[karanana]

Ma najbolje da se sluzbeni jezik u BiH zove nas. Tako su i neki skolski udzbenici rjesili ovaj glupi problem. Na citankama umjesto srpski, hravtski, bosanski...fino pise "nas jezik" i svako to prihvata kako hoce.

[Qler]

stavio sam da je lud pametnjakovic, ali fali ti opcija da su ludi i panetnjakovic i britanica daj nam link tog sajta

[davis.ba]

Hi i'm writing to inform you that there is a broken link on electionresources.org

[Qler]

do mene