Forum Klix.ba

Pozdrav svim ljudima dobre volje
(vidi se da mi opet nesto treba)
Vise puta su se na ovom podforumu iznosili fakti o vjerodostojnosti Kur'ana. Jedan od njih je i ajet koji, cini mi se, predvidja da ce Arapi poraziti Perzijsku vojsku na "najnizoj tacki na zemlji" (izvinjavam se zbog parafraziranja).
Moze li mi neko reci kako se zove to mjesto i, eventualno, kako glasi ajet?
Napominjem da mi NE TREBA da bih isao provjeravati da li je to fakat najniza tacka
Hvala unaprijed.

U Veneciji.

i ja sam za ovo cula, ali mislim da nije arapska i perzijska vojska, vec perzijska i vizantijska vojska... ne sjecam se vise...

PS ne znam jel' to iz kurana ili iz hadisa, mislim da nije u kuranu napisano...

Iznosi se kao jedan od dokaza vjerodostojnosti Kur'ana, pa mislim ipak da nisu hadisi.
Usput ponavljam da ne trazim ovaj podatak da bih "pretresao" dokaze.

pa progooglaj, ne bilo ti mrsko

na obali mrtvog mora bi moglo biti.

Jeste, negdje oko mrtvog mora. Ma googlao pa nista, evo pretrazio sam i forum, nasao samo da je bilo na najnizoj tacki, ali nisam nasao cak ni kako se TAD zvalo to mjesto.

e jesi smotan...

Some of the information regarding the unknown imparted
to the Prophet (saas) by the Qur'an

Alif Lam Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will themselves be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice. (Surat ar-Rum: 1-4)

One of the items of information about the future given to the Prophet (saas) by means of the Qur'an is to be found in the early verses of Surat ar-Rum. It is revealed in these verses that the Byzantine Empire had been defeated, but would then emerge victorious a short while later.

These verses were revealed in 620 A.D., some seven years after a crushing defeat inflicted on the Byzantines by the idolater Persians. The news is reported that the Byzantines will soon again be victorious. At that time, however, the Byzantines had been so seriously defeated that it looked impossible for them even to survive, let alone later emerge victorious. Not only the Persians, but also the Avars, Slavs and Lombards all constituted a grave menace to the Byzantine Empire. The Avars had come as far as the walls of Constantinople. In order to meet the expenses of his army, the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius had ordered all gold and silver ornamental goods in the churches to be melted down. When that proved to be insufficient, he even started to have bronze statues torn down to make coins from. Many governors rebelled against Emperor Heraclius, and the empire was on the point of falling apart. The idolator Persians had occupied many Byzantine territories, including Mesopotamia, Cilicia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Armenia.208

In short, everyone expected Byzantium to disappear completely. Yet, at just that moment, the news was revealed in the verse that Byzantium would emerge victorious again within nine years. Such a victory looked so totally impossible that Arab idolaters believed that this victory, revealed in the Qur'an, could never happen.

Yet, it was certainly true, just like everything else in the Qur'an. About seven years after the revelation of the first verses of Surat ar-Rum, in December 627 A.D., there was a major battle between Byzantium and the Persian Empire not far from the ruins of Nineveh. The Byzantine army defeated the Persians. A few months later, the Persians had to sign a treaty handing back to Byzantium all of its territories they had occupied.209 The "victory of the Romans," revealed to the Prophet (saas) by Allah in the Qur'an, had miraculously come about.

Another miracle in these verses consists in the reporting of facts about a part of the world that nobody at the time could possibly identify.

In verse 3 of Surat ar-Rum, it is said that the Romans had been defeated in "the lowest place on Earth." The Arabic for that is "Adna al Ard," and is translated in some texts as meaning "a land nearby." Yet, that does not accurately reflect the original meaning. The Arabic word "adna" means "the lowest," and comes from the word "deni," which means "low." "Ard" means the "earth." "Adna al Ard" therefore means the lowest place on earth.

The battle between the Byzantine Empire and the Persians really did take place at the lowest point on earth. That was the basin of Lake Lut, where present-day Syria, Palestine and Jordan meet. It is also known that the area around the lake is 395 metres below sea-level, making it the lowest point on earth. As the verse reveals, the Romans were defeated at "the lowest place on earth."

The important point here is that the altitude of Lake Lut has only been been established by measurements taken in the modern age. Before that, it was not possible for anyone to know that the lake was the lowest point on earth. Yet the region is described as such in the Qur'an. That is one of the proofs that the Qur'an is the divine word, and that the Prophet Muhammad (saas) is the prophet of Allah.


The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land...
(Surat ar-Rum: 2-3)

Glory be to Him who took His servant on a journey by night from the Masjid al-Haram to the Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, in order to show him some of Our Signs. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing. (Surat al-Isra': 1)

In this verse, Allah reveals that one night he took the Prophet (saas) to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. That is a great miracle. The Sacred Mosque (Masjid al-Haram) is in Mecca, and the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. The Prophet (saas) was in Mecca when this happened. Under the conditions of that time it would have been quite impossible for him to go from Mecca to Jerusalem in one night. We must also make it clear that the Prophet (saas) had never before seen Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

The next day, when he recounted this great miracle to those around him, the polytheists in Mecca refused to believe him, and, it is said, demanded proof. One of them had seen the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and they asked the Prophet (saas) to describe it and asked him questions about it.

When the Prophet (saas) was able to describe the Al-Aqsa Mosque correctly, the polytheists said his description was exact. They then asked him whether or not he had met a caravan that was coming from there. The Prophet (saas) replied: "Yes, I came across it. It was at Rawha. They had lost a camel and were looking for it. There was a water goblet among what they were carrying. I was thirsty and drank from it, and then put it back in its place. When they arrive, ask them if they found the water in that goblet." The Quraish then said, "That is another sign." They then continued to ask him detailed questions about the caravan. The Prophet (saas) answered all their questions, and said: "They will arrive on such and such a day, at dawn, led by such and such a person on a grey camel with two haircloth sacks on it." They then said, "That is another sign." It is then reported that on that day they then made haste for Saniyya to wait for dawn. The caravan in question indeed came into view at dawn. Leading the caravan was that same grey camel that the Prophet (saas) had described.210

danas, nasli smo istovremeno! Ja bas pisem kad stize i tvoj post

Zar se spominjala nadmorska visina ??


Ja uzeh globus i nadjoh "najnizu tacku"...

Ja sam mislio da je to bas neko mjesto, ono, toponim, ali evo najblize nazivu mjesta je opis da se nalazi "nedaleko od rusevina Nineveh-a".

30:2,3 Najniža tačka na zemlji. Jedna interesantna činjenica, vezana za najveću depresiju na Zemlji, spomenuta je u slijedećem kur’anskom ajetu:
“Poraženi su Bizantinci,
U zemlji najnižoj, a oni će poslije poraza svog, pobijediti,
Za nekoliko godina - Allahova je naredba prije i poslije - a tog dana radovat će se vjernici.”
(Kur’an, 30:2,3)
Sada je poznato da je ta zona blizu Mrtvoga mora - koja je bila scena tih bitaka, najniže mjesto na Zemlji ispod morskog nivoa.
Kur’an se osvrće na Mrtvo more u različitom kontekstu, vezanom za kazivanje o Lutu a.s. Lut, koji je bio amidžić Ibrahima a.s. bio je vjernik i Ibrahimov sljedbenik. Kada je Ibrahim napustio svoj dom u Kaldeji i otišao u Siriju i Palestinu, Lut je sa njim krenuo u dobrovoljno izgnanstvo. Narod Lutov, koji je bio ogrezao u nemoralu, njemu se smijao govoreći:
“Zar vi uistinu pristupate ljudima i presjecate put, i činite u sastajalištu svom ružno? Tad je bio odgovor naroda njegovog samo što su rekli: “Daj nam kaznu Allahovu, ako si od istinitih!” (Kur’an, 29:29)
Kur’an iznosi priču kako je Bog uništio stanovnike tih gradova, izuzev Luta i vjernika koji su ga slijedili:
“Uistinu, Mi smo ti koji će spustiti na stanovnike ovog grada kaznu s neba, zbog toga što su griješili.”
I doista smo od njega ostavili znak jasan za ljude koji razmišljaju.” (Kur’an, 29:34,35)
Kazna je bila sumporna kiša, koja je upotpunosti prekrila gradove, s mogućim zemljotresom ili vulkanskom erupcijom.
Danas je čitav trakt istočne strane Mrtvog mora, gdje su se nalazili gradovi Sodoma i gomora, pokriven sumpornim solima, gdje ne mogu opstati ni životinje niti biljke. Mrtvo more se na arapskom zove “Bahr Lut” , što znači Lutovo more. To je scena krajnje pustoši, koja stoji kao trajan sibmol uništenja.
Izraz “edna” u ajetu znači istovremeno najbliži i najniži. Komentatori Kur’ana, neka je Allah zadovoljan njima, su bili mišljenja da se izraz “ednal-erd” odnosi na najbližu zemlju Arabijskom poluostrvu.
Pa ipak ne možemo izbjeći i drugo značenje ove riječi. Na ovaj način Kur’an jednoj riječi daje više značenja. Najniža tačka na Zemlji je upravo ovo mjesto, koje je svjedok bitke u kojoj su poraženi Rimljani, a koje je 408,13 metara ispod morskog nivoa.

@Zox nadam se da cu bar malo ti pomoci sa ovim..

Nevezano za temu, black, ja licno mislim, bez ikakve polemike, da ljepota Svetih knjiga, a Kur'ana pogotovo, lezi upravo u odabiru rijeci koje mogu biti dvosmislene.
Ne poznajem arapski, ali vjerujem da na tom jeziku postoji rijec koja znaci SAMO "najnizi", i druga koja znaci SAMO "najblizi". Koristenjem izraza koji znaci I JEDNO I DRUGO ostavlja se margina i vjerniku i nevjerniku, jer ja sam vise puta napisao na forumu da cisti i neoborivi DOKAZ nije nista drugo do negiranje vjere (lako je vjerovati u nesto sto je 100% dokazano).
U svakom slucaju hvala, interesantan tekst o ocigledno vrlo vrlo misticnom mjestu.

ih dok ja napisa vec stigli odgovori... al no nema veze...

pa sto se tice arapskog i termina u Kur'anu ima ih koje je nemoguce bas prevesti doslovno jer nema adekvatnog izraza u drugim jezicima...recimo malo ljudi mozda zna da je najblizi prevod Kur'ana engleski prevod..ili recimo ajeti neki koji spadaju u red nejasnih...fakat je da postoji jedna visa realnost ili svijet koji ljudska percepcija nije u stanju razumski spoznati ne postoji ni jedna rijec u ljudskom jeziku koja bi mogla opisati tu realnost zato je Allah u Objavi koristio rijeci ( da se ovako izrazim ) koje najblize odrazavaju tu realnost ali naravno nikad u potpunosti,tako da je nemoguce proniknuti u pojedina znacenja i to spada u skrivena ili gajb znacenja...et naprica se ja...

Zox wrote:Pozdrav svim ljudima dobre volje
(vidi se da mi opet nesto treba)
Vise puta su se na ovom podforumu iznosili fakti o vjerodostojnosti Kur'ana. Jedan od njih je i ajet koji, cini mi se, predvidja da ce Arapi poraziti Perzijsku vojsku na "najnizoj tacki na zemlji" (izvinjavam se zbog parafraziranja).
Moze li mi neko reci kako se zove to mjesto i, eventualno, kako glasi ajet?
Napominjem da mi NE TREBA da bih isao provjeravati da li je to fakat najniza tacka
Hvala unaprijed.

eh ako te jos ovo interesuje procaprkaj malo na http://www.dzemat.org, http://www.studio-.com, http://www.sehur.net, bilo je na ovim stranicama, ne znam sa bas na kojoj.....