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Dobar tekst, ali kakva fajda?

bože dragi zamislite koji je sad tamo pakao

novi svjetski poredak

zaratustra wrote:Dobar tekst, ali kakva fajda?

da se razluci sto je istina,a sto laz
danas su bile demonstracije u londonu
jedan tv-komicar,zaboravi mu ime,koji ima svoj sou,a inace je jevrej bio na protestima i covjek je najbolje rekao
,,trazimo da britanija povuce ambasadu,da prekine sve odnose sa izraelom,trazim od ljudi da prekina sa kupovinom izraelskih proizvoda i americkih kompanija koje podrzavaju cionisticki rezim,, i jos par stvari je nabrojao,ali ovo sam zapmtio
i zaista kada bi ljudi poceli sa bojkotom izraelske robe,to bi bilo vise nego dovoljno u nasim okolnostima

zivota mi barba, osjecam jezu u kostima..

Understanding the Gaza catastrophe by RICHARD FALK*
For 18 months, the entire 1.5 million people of Gaza experienced a punishing blockade imposed by Israel, and a variety of traumatizing challenges to the normality of daily life.

A flicker of hope emerged some six months ago, when an Egyptian-arranged truce produced an effective cease-fire that cut Israeli casualties to zero despite the cross-border periodic firing of homemade rockets that fell harmlessly on nearby Israeli territory, and undoubtedly caused anxiety in the border town of Sderot. During the cease-fire, the Hamas leadership in Gaza repeatedly offered to extend the truce, even proposing a 10-year period and claimed receptivity to a political solution based on acceptance of Israel's 1967 borders. Israel ignored these diplomatic initiatives, and failed to carry out its side of the cease-fire agreement, which involved some easing of the blockade that had been restricting the entry to Gaza of food, medicine and fuel to a trickle.

Israel also refused exit permits to students with foreign fellowship awards and to Gazan journalists and respected NGO representatives. At the same time, it made it increasingly difficult for journalists to enter, and I myself was expelled from Israel a couple of weeks ago when I tried to enter to carry out my UN job of monitoring respect for human rights in occupied Palestine, that is, in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, as well as in Gaza. Clearly, prior to the current crisis, Israel used its authority to prevent credible observers from giving accurate and truthful accounts of the dire humanitarian situation that had been already documented as producing severe declines in the physical condition and mental health of the Gazan population, especially noting malnutrition among children and the absence of treatment facilities for those suffering from a variety of diseases. The Israeli attacks were directed against a society already in grave condition.

As always in relation to the underlying conflict, some facts bearing on this latest crisis are murky and contested, although the American public in particular gets 99 percent of its information filtered through an exceedingly pro-Israeli media lens. Hamas is blamed for the breakdown of the truce by its supposed unwillingness to renew it, and by the alleged increased incidence of rocket attacks. But the reality is more clouded. There was no substantial rocket fire from Gaza during the cease-fire until Israel launched an attack on Nov. 4, 2008, directed at what it claimed were Palestinian militants in Gaza, killing several Palestinians. It was at this point that rocket fire from Gaza intensified. Also, it was Hamas that on numerous public occasions called for extending the truce, with its calls never acknowledged, much less acted upon, by Israeli officialdom. Beyond this, attributing all the rockets to Hamas is not convincing either. A variety of independent militia groups operate in Gaza, some such as the Fatah-backed al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade are anti-Hamas and not subject to governmental control, and could even be sending rockets to provoke or justify Israeli retaliation. It is well confirmed that when the US-supported Fatah controlled Gaza's governing structure, it was unable to stop rocket attacks despite a concerted effort to do so.

Unacknowledged reasons for attacks

What this background suggests strongly is that Israel launched its devastating attacks, starting on Dec. 27, not simply to stop the rockets or in retaliation, but also for a series of unacknowledged reasons. It was evident for several weeks prior to the Israeli attacks that the Israeli military and political leaders were preparing the public for large-scale military operations against Hamas. The timing of the attacks seemed prompted by a series of considerations: most of all, the interest of political contenders Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni in demonstrating their toughness prior to national elections scheduled for February, but now possibly postponed until military operations cease. Such Israeli shows of force have been a feature of past Israeli election campaigns, and on this occasion especially, the current government was being successfully challenged by Israel's notoriously militarist politician, Benjamin Netanyahu, for its supposed failures to uphold security. Reinforcing these electoral motivations was the little-concealed pressure from Israeli military commanders to seize the opportunity in Gaza to erase the memories of their failure to destroy Hezbullah in the devastating Lebanese war of 2006, which both tarnished Israel's reputation as a military power and led to widespread international condemnation of Israel for the heavy bombardment of undefended Lebanese villages, disproportionate force, and extensive use of cluster bombs against heavily populated areas.

Respected and conservative Israeli commentators go further. For instance, the prominent historian Benny Morris, writing in The New York Times a few days ago, relates the campaign in Gaza to a deeper set of forebodings in Israel that he compares to the dark mood of the public that preceded the 1967 War when Israelis felt deeply threatened by Arab mobilizations on their borders. Morris insists that despite Israeli prosperity in recent years and the relative security, several factors have led Israel to act boldly in Gaza: the perceived continuing refusal of the Arab world to accept the existence of Israel as an established reality; the inflammatory threats voiced by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, together with Iran's supposed push to acquire nuclear weapons; the fading memory of the Holocaust, combined with growing sympathy in the West with the Palestinian plight; and the radicalization of political movements on Israel's borders in the form of Hezbullah and Hamas. In effect, Morris argues that Israel is trying via the crushing of Hamas in Gaza to send a wider message to the region that it will stop at nothing to uphold its claims of sovereignty and security.

There are two conclusions that emerge: The people of Gaza are seemingly being severely victimized for reasons remote from the rockets and border security concerns, partly to improve election prospects of current leaders now facing defeat, and to warn others in the region that Israel will use overwhelming force whenever its interests or military preeminence are at stake.

UN and international law ineffective

That such a human catastrophe can happen with minimal outside interference also shows the weakness of international law and the United Nations, as well as the geopolitical priorities of the important players. The passive support of the United States government for whatever Israel does is again the critical factor, as it was in 2006 when it launched its aggressive war against Lebanon. What is less evident is that the main Arab neighbors, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, with their extreme hostility toward Hamas that is viewed as being backed by Iran, their main regional rival, were also willing to stand aside while Gaza was being so brutally attacked, with some Arab diplomats even blaming the attacks on Palestinian disunity or on the refusal of Hamas to accept the leadership of Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority.

The people of Gaza are victims of geopolitics at its inhumane worst, producing what Israel itself calls a "total war" against an essentially defenseless society that lacks any defensive military capability whatsoever and is completely vulnerable to Israeli attacks mounted by F-16 bombers and Apache helicopters. Such extreme military asymmetry is more suggestive of a "massacre" than a "war." What this also means is that the flagrant violation of international humanitarian law, as set forth in the Geneva Conventions, is cynically ignored, while the carnage continues and the bodies pile up. It additionally means that the UN has once more been revealed to be impotent when its main members deprive it of the political will to protect a people subject to unlawful uses of force on a large scale. Finally, this means that the public can shout and march all over the world, but that the killing will go on uninterrupted. The picture being painted day by day in Gaza is one that begs for renewed commitment to international law and the authority of the UN Charter, starting here in the United States, especially with a new leadership that promised its citizens change, including a less militarist approach to diplomatic leadership.

Turkey's constructive efforts to bring peace in the region have been notable, and it is encouraging that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is now visiting Arab capitals to mobilize support on behalf of an immediate cease-fire, thereby coming to the rescue of the beleaguered Gaza. It is notable that the Arab League high-level meeting taking place in Cairo has urged Turkey to play an active diplomatic role in bringing the current crisis to an end. It is notable to recall that Turkey back in early 2006 took a controversial initiative by making contact with Hamas leaders, and urging some kind of normalization that took account of the outcome of the democratic elections that brought Hamas to power. It is tragic that this effort failed, and was at the time criticized. In retrospect, both the wellbeing of the Gazan civilian population and the security of Israel would have been greatly benefited by taking advantage of the Turkish initiative, and moving to implement the readiness of Hamas to establish a long-term truce. Turkey also has moved the wider regional conflict in the direction of peaceful resolution by providing auspices for Israel-Syrian talks that seek to negotiate a return of the Golan Heights to Syria in exchange for security guarantees given to Israel. With the United States increasingly suspect as "honest broker" due to its unconditional support for Israel whatever the circumstances, Turkey has both an opportunity and responsibility to fill this menacing diplomatic vacuum. Indeed, the future stability of the region may yet depend on Turkish active diplomacy in a context where the positive alternatives are now invisible.
*Richard Falk is a professor emeritus of international law and practice at Princeton University and the UN's special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories.

Izvor:
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detay ... &bolum=109

ld wrote:

zaratustra wrote:Dobar tekst, ali kakva fajda?

da se razluci sto je istina,a sto laz
danas su bile demonstracije u londonu
jedan tv-komicar,zaboravi mu ime,koji ima svoj sou,a inace je jevrej bio na protestima i covjek je najbolje rekao
,,trazimo da britanija povuce ambasadu,da prekine sve odnose sa izraelom,trazim od ljudi da prekina sa kupovinom izraelskih proizvoda i americkih kompanija koje podrzavaju cionisticki rezim,, i jos par stvari je nabrojao,ali ovo sam zapmtio
i zaista kada bi ljudi poceli sa bojkotom izraelske robe,to bi bilo vise nego dovoljno u nasim okolnostima

Svaka mu čast, a to za prekidanje diplomatskih odnosa zna i on i ti i ja da ne može proći ni kao priča za malu djecu. Mi kakvi smo nećemo da kupujemo naše domaće proizvode, a kamoli da bojkotujemo nečije druge.

Ne znam spopale me ove slike. Katastrofa, beznađe, apatija......

Hamas je 18. prosinca objavio kraj šestomjesečnog primirja s Izraelom u pojasu Gaze. "Zatišje je gotovo", rekao je tom prilikom Hamasov dužnosnik Ayman Taha.

Nakon toga su krenuli s konstantnim raketiranjem područja Izraela, da bi tek 27.prosinca IDF uzvratio zračnim i artiljerijskim napadima.

Naravno o tome nema spomena na http://www.................. -kapija, samo se iznose detalji o "ničim-izazvanoj neopravdanoj agresiji ćifuta".

ovo prenosim sa jednoga drugog foruma

nemam rijeci mi u bosni smo to sve prosli, Bog im bio na pomoci....!

ps cionisti mi se gade

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/cha ... 230937462/

Sjajna analiza...

Josip wrote:

Hamas je 18. prosinca objavio kraj šestomjesečnog primirja s Izraelom u pojasu Gaze. "Zatišje je gotovo", rekao je tom prilikom Hamasov dužnosnik Ayman Taha.

Nakon toga su krenuli s konstantnim raketiranjem područja Izraela, da bi tek 27.prosinca IDF uzvratio zračnim i artiljerijskim napadima.

Naravno o tome nema spomena na http://www.................. -kapija, samo se iznose detalji o "ničim-izazvanoj neopravdanoj agresiji ćifuta".

ovo prenosim sa jednoga drugog foruma

A da pročitaš ovaj tekst, na engleskom, kojeg je postao @Id, na ovom forumu i na ovoj stranici?

tornjak-bosanski wrote:http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/cha ... 230937462/

Sjajna analiza...

Slažem se, i zaista postoji značajan broj jevreja koji su protiv nasilja i svega ovoga što se radi, koji žele da se ovo riješi na ljudski i civilizovan način. Ali, ne samo u ovom slučaju već općenito, kako to, majku mu, da glas razuma uvijek dolazi od onih koji se ne pitaju gotovo ni za što a nikad od onih koji imaju moć u svojim rukama??? I da li bi oni koji daju taj glas razuma isto činili kada bi došli u poziciju da ga i provedu u djelo???

alanskoda wrote:ja ovdje sam samo od par ljudi procitao osudu hamasa.kako slusam na vijestima,hamas je prvi prekrsio primirje i gadjao sa raketama izraelske gradove.

Potpisujem. Poceli su sami to, narod u Gazi stoji uz Hamas, pa nek onda i osjete posljedice toga. Najlakse je napasti, pa onda reci nisam kriv kad uzvrati napadnuti. Ovi su tri dana prije napada pokusali mirnim putem rijesiti stvari, oni opet prijete "mi cemo i dalje napadati", pa nek se sad prave vazni.

January 1 , 2009
Despite It's Military Might, Israel is a Weak and Dying State
The Self-Defense of Suicide

By OREN BEN-DOR

Echoing Lebanon 2006, the people of Gaza are being butchered by murderous pilots of a murderous state. Ground forces will soon butcher many more. This widely-expected repetition of Israel’s large scale violence is carried out after a long process that was triggered when Israel unilaterally cleared its settlements and ground presence from Gaza only to create what has been described as a remote-controlled human zoo. Israel has maintained total control over Gaza’s borders, its air and sea space, its economy, its electricity, food and medical supplies. The people of Gaza have been starved, humiliated and constantly intimidated. However, whether the withdrawal was well-intended or not engages little with the reasons rockets are being defiantly shot at the Israeli towns of Sderot, Ashkelon and Beer Sheva.

Beyond achieving very short term relief from rocket attacks the scale of Israel’s violence is question-begging and thought provoking. Israel’s actions, justified by the “no choice” (ein brera) and “self-defence” rhetoric, can temporarily put the lid on the volcano of hatred around Israel and within it but, after the initial shock and awe, it is surely destined to bring much more violence.

Assassinating individual members of Hamas, even toppling the organisation, destroying its infrastructure and buildings, will not destroy the legitimate opposition to the arrogant and self-righteous Zionist entity. No army, however well equipped and trained, can win a combat against increasing number of people who no longer have any reason to care about dying. If there was hatred against Israelis before the Gaza massacre, the hatred after it will be of a different order of magnitude.

Given the sure failure of attempts to bring about stability through violence, intimidation, starvation and humiliation, what, on earth, is the desire that moves the Israeli state? What, do Israelis imagine, will be achieved by this massacre? There must be something which is suppressed here. There must be, for Israelis, some being and thinking which is preserved, indeed defended, by the pathology of provoking a permanent state of violence against them. What kind of self-righteousness conditions this self-destructive desire to be hated?

Gaza itself gives us a clue. Many of the Palestinians who live in Gaza are descendants of 750000 refugees who were expelled in 1948 from what is now the Jewish state. Ashkelon is built on the ruins of the Palestinian village of al-Majdal whose people were expelled in 1948, many to Gaza. Only by such massive ethnic cleansing could a state with a Jewish majority and character be established. Any just realisation of the refugees’ internationally recognised right of return would effectively mean the end of the Zionist project. Those who choose to return would not merely threaten the Jewish majority. Upon return, they would surely press demands for equal citizenship. In so doing, they would challenge the foundational discriminatory premise of the Jewish state, which assigns a different stake in the state to all those who pass a test of Jewishness, whether they live in the country or elsewhere. Thus, for the same reason that Israel discriminates against its own non-Jewish Arab citizens, it will prevent the return of the refugees.

The proliferation and dominance of the self-defence discourse and its by-product - the uncritical acceptance of the legitimacy of the Israeli state - successfully hide the fact that Israel itself is an apartheid state which is based on an apartheid (separation) premise. In the name of this apartheid premise, occupation, dispossession and discrimination affected all Palestinians whether in Gaza, the West Bank, in Israel itself or indeed all over the world.

Thus, what is in fact being “preserved” is the unwillingness, or rather the inability, of Israelis to question their own state’s apartheid foundation. The concealing mantra about Hamas’s rocket firing versus Israel’s legitimate self-defence cynically conscripts both the Palestinians of Gaza and the Israelis of Sderot. Shielding the Jewish state’s unwillingness to deal with colonial and racist Zionism is more important than all of them.

Accepting the right of Israel to securely exist as a Jewish state has now become the bench mark for political moderation. Obama is already singing the song. Egalitarian anti-Zionists who challenge that right readily fail the test. This anti-Zionist voice is inclusive and moderate. It insists that injustices to Palestinians stem from the very premise of statehood that Israel is based on. Injustices to Palestinians encompass the whole of historic Palestine in a way which cannot be partitioned so that they become visible only in the territories, including Gaza, which Israel occupied in 1967. Let us, then, break the idle chatter about self-defence that merely levels “criticisms” against Israel but by that legitimises it: the origin of the violence in Gaza is intimately linked to the manner the Israeli state came into being and to the continuing toleration of the apartheid premise at its very essence. Israel should not be “reformed” or “condemned” but replaced with a single egalitarian structure over all historic Palestine.

Israel needs a continuing cycle of violence. As long as this cycle is provoked through daily oppression, Israelis can sustain that haven in which they can unite behind their inability to examine their apartheid mentality. Violence maintains a zone in which that existential threat of old stifles any possibility for genuine empathy and egalitarian self-reflection. At the same time, violence is a necessary means for entrenching the purported legitimacy of what is claimed to be the only alternative to this violence. That alternative is no other than the “surprisingly” failing, “sane”, “reasonable” and “moderate” “peace process” towards two states, a process which aims to legitimise the apartheid state once and for all. The discourse has been hijacked in such a way that the urgent calls for the immediate cessation of violence resuscitate that non-starter, the essentially unjust two states project that will ensure the continuation of violence.

Alas, the pathology of generating violence against oneself, violence that suspends reflection on the core apartheid, succeeds only at the price of generating enormous hatred. The Israeli pathology will bring about, stealthily and fatefully, that which the Israelis fear most.There is indeed “no choice” for the nationalistic project of the eternal victims but to commit suicide with those whom they oppress.

The sublimated Zionist desire to be hated is the fuel of Israel’s unity and self-righteousness. This self-destructive nature, concealed as a desire for self defence, comes from deep and ancient forces of which Zionism is merely a symptom and a hint. That which preserves these self-destructive forces ensures that the eternal victims’ apartheid nationalisticproject will be a fleeting phenomenon. When arrested in mere nationalism, primordial victim mentality self preserves by generating collective suicide of that nationalistic project. The self-defence of suicide points out the uniqueness of the Israeli apartheid. Both the no-choice and the self-defence rhetoric contain a chilling chronicle of suicide foretold. Despite its military might, Israel is a weak and dying state that desires to destroy itself. The most powerful nations in the world assist this suicidal process and this fact calls for urgent contemplation.

Oren Ben-Dor grew up in Israel and teaches Legal and Political Philosophy at the School of Law, University of Southampton, UK. His latest book, Thinking About Law: In Silence with Heidegger, was published in 2007 by Hart Publishing, Oxford. He can be reached at: [email protected]

evo i cika Ralfa

An Open Letter to President Bush

America Must Stop Shirking Its Responsibility on Gaza

By RALPH NADER

Dear George W. Bush---

Cong. Barney Frank said recently that Barack Obama?s declaration that ?there is only one president at a time? over-estimated the number. He was referring to the economic crisis. But where are you on the Gaza crisis where the civilian population of Gaza, its civil servants and public facilities are being massacred and destroyed respectively by U.S built F-16s and U.S. built helicopter gunships.

The deliberate suspension of your power to stop this terrorizing of 1.5 million people, mostly refugees, blockaded for months by air, sea and land in their klix slice of land, is in cowardly contrast to the position taken by President Dwight Eisenhower in 1956. That year he single handedly stopped the British, French and Israeli aircraft attack against Egypt during the Suez Canal dispute.

Fatalities in Gaza are already over 400 and injuries close to 2000 so far as is known. Total Palestinian civilian casualties are 400 times greater then the casualties incurred by Israelis. But why should anyone be surprised at your blanket support for Israel?s attack given what you have done to a far greater number of civilians in Iraq and now in Afghanistan?

Confirmed visual reports show that Israeli warplanes and warships have destroyed or severely damaged police stations, homes, hospitals, pharmacies, mosques, fishing boats, and a range of public facilities providing electricity and other necessities.

Why should this trouble you at all? It violates international law, including the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter. You too have repeatedly violated international law and committed serious constitutional transgressions.

Then there is the matter of the Israeli government blocking imports of critical medicines, equipment such as dialysis machines, fuel, food, water, spare parts and electricity at varying intensities for almost two years. The depleted UN aid mission there has called this illegal blockade a humanitarian crisis especially devastating to children, the aged and the infirm. Chronic malnutrition among children is rising rapidly. UN rations support eighty percent of this impoverished population.

How do these incontrovertible facts affect you? Do you have any empathy or what you have called Christian charity?

What would a vastly shrunken Texas turned in an encircled Gulag do up against the 4th most powerful military in the world? Would these embattled Texans be spending their time chopping wood?

Gideon Levy, the veteran Israeli columnist for Ha?aretz, called the Israeli attack a ?brutal and violent operation? far beyond what was needed for protecting the people in its south. He added: ?The diplomatic efforts were just in the beginning, and I believe we could have got to a new truce without this bloodshed
..to send dozens of jets to bomb a total helpless civilian society with hundreds of bombs?just today, they were burying five sisters. I mean, this is unheard of. This cannot go on like this. And this has nothing to do with self-defense or with retaliation even. It went out of proportion, exactly like two-and-a-half years ago in Lebanon.?

Apparently, thousands of Israelis, including some army reservists, who have demonstrated against this destruction of Gaza agree with Mr. Levy. However, their courageous stands have not reached the mass media in the U.S. whose own reporters cannot even get into Gaza due to Israeli prohibitions on the international press.

Your spokespeople are making much ado about the breaking of the six month truce. Who is the occupier? Who is the most powerful military force? Who controls and blocks the necessities of life? Who has sent raiding missions across the border most often? Who has sent artillery shells and missiles at close range into populated areas? Who has refused the repeated comprehensive peace offerings of the Arab countries issued in 2002 if Israel would agree to return to the 1967 borders and agree to the creation of a small independent Palestinian state possessing just twenty two percent of the original Palestine?

The ?wildly inaccurate rockets?, as reporters describe them, coming from Hamas and other groups cannot compare with the modern precision armaments and human damage generated from the Israeli side.

There are no rockets coming from the West Bank into Israel. Yet the Israeli government is still sending raiders into that essentially occupied territory, still further entrenching its colonial outposts, still taking water and land and increasing the checkpoints This is going on despite a most amenable West Bank leader, Mahmoud Abbas, whom you have met with at the White House and praised repeatedly. Is it all vague words and no real initiatives with you and your emissary Condoleezza Rice?

Peace was possible, but you provided no leadership, preferring instead to comply with all wishes and demands by the Israeli government?even resupplying it with the still active cluster bombs in south Lebanon during the invasion of that country in 2006.

The arguments about who started the latest hostilities go on and on with Israel always blaming the Palestinians to justify all kinds of violence and harsh treatment against innocent civilians.

From the Palestinian standpoint, you would do well to remember the origins of this conflict which was the dispossession of their lands. To afford you some empathy, recall the oft-quoted comment by the founder of Israel, David Ben-Gurion, who told the Zionist leader, Nahum Goldmann:

?There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis Hitler Auschwitz but was that their [the Palestinians] fault? They only see one thing: We have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that??

Alfred North Whitehead once said: ?Duty arises out of the power to alter the course of events.? By that standard, you have shirked mightily your duty over the past eight years to bring peace to both Palestinians and Israelis and more security to a good part of the world.

The least you can do in your remaining days at the White House is adopt a modest profile in courage, and vigorously demand and secure a ceasefire and a solidly based truce. Then your successor, President-elect Obama can inherit something more than the usual self-censoring Washington puppet show that eschews a proper focus on the national interests of the United States.

nemoj misliti da ja branim Izrael. već sam u predhodnim postovima pisao da ih oboje smatram jednako odgovornim. i rekao sam da su Palestinci iz položaja žrtve došli u položaj jednak Izraelu što se tiče krivnje. ali nisu u isti položaj došli sa Izraelom što se tiče vojne moći.
I zato zbog imbicilnog ponašanja Hamasa ginu oni koji su nedužni na obje strane, a također i oni nesretnici koji nemaju dvije u glavi pa su zavedeni i idu u nekakav sveti rat.
Pa da nije bilo Hamasovog prekida primirija ta teška situacija Paestinaca u pojasu gaze bi polako išla na bolje jer bi i svijet rekao: pa stanite malo vi Izraelci, ne može to tako, oni su dobili svjetsku javnost na svoju stranu.

ali ne, Hamas ne može niti da prizna Izraelu pravo na postojanje, kamo li da vodi Palestince u mir.

VR6 wrote:

alanskoda wrote:ja ovdje sam samo od par ljudi procitao osudu hamasa.kako slusam na vijestima,hamas je prvi prekrsio primirje i gadjao sa raketama izraelske gradove.

Potpisujem. Poceli su sami to, narod u Gazi stoji uz Hamas, pa nek onda i osjete posljedice toga. Najlakse je napasti, pa onda reci nisam kriv kad uzvrati napadnuti. Ovi su tri dana prije napada pokusali mirnim putem rijesiti stvari, oni opet prijete "mi cemo i dalje napadati", pa nek se sad prave vazni.

kako je to drsko od tebe

VR6 wrote:

alanskoda wrote:ja ovdje sam samo od par ljudi procitao osudu hamasa.kako slusam na vijestima,hamas je prvi prekrsio primirje i gadjao sa raketama izraelske gradove.

Potpisujem. Poceli su sami to, narod u Gazi stoji uz Hamas, pa nek onda i osjete posljedice toga. Najlakse je napasti, pa onda reci nisam kriv kad uzvrati napadnuti. Ovi su tri dana prije napada pokusali mirnim putem rijesiti stvari, oni opet prijete "mi cemo i dalje napadati", pa nek se sad prave vazni.

Znam da nije vrijeme za pjesmu, ali ne znam kako da ti drugačije odgovorim. Nema ovo veze sa Palestinom al' ima sa ratom, ma gdje on bio. Il' nisi bio il' si zaboravio:

Josip wrote:nemoj misliti da ja branim Izrael. već sam u predhodnim postovima pisao da ih oboje smatram jednako odgovornim. i rekao sam da su Palestinci iz položaja žrtve došli u položaj jednak Izraelu što se tiče krivnje. ali nisu u isti položaj došli sa Izraelom što se tiče vojne moći.
I zato zbog imbicilnog ponašanja Hamasa ginu oni koji su nedužni na obje strane, a također i oni nesretnici koji nemaju dvije u glavi pa su zavedeni i idu u nekakav sveti rat.
Pa da nije bilo Hamasovog prekida primirija ta teška situacija Paestinaca u pojasu gaze bi polako išla na bolje jer bi i svijet rekao: pa stanite malo vi Izraelci, ne može to tako, oni su dobili svjetsku javnost na svoju stranu.

ali ne, Hamas ne može niti da prizna Izraelu pravo na postojanje, kamo li da vodi Palestince u mir.

jbt ti ko da si iz Skandinavije odnekud. koji bolan svijet? gdje li si ti bio devedesetih?

VR6 wrote:

alanskoda wrote:ja ovdje sam samo od par ljudi procitao osudu hamasa.kako slusam na vijestima,hamas je prvi prekrsio primirje i gadjao sa raketama izraelske gradove.

Potpisujem. Poceli su sami to, narod u Gazi stoji uz Hamas, pa nek onda i osjete posljedice toga. Najlakse je napasti, pa onda reci nisam kriv kad uzvrati napadnuti. Ovi su tri dana prije napada pokusali mirnim putem rijesiti stvari, oni opet prijete "mi cemo i dalje napadati", pa nek se sad prave vazni.

Ma da oni su krivi za sve.. Jadni Zhidovi.. ne bi oni nikad nikom nista loshe uradili..

Josip wrote:nemoj misliti da ja branim Izrael. već sam u predhodnim postovima pisao da ih oboje smatram jednako odgovornim. i rekao sam da su Palestinci iz položaja žrtve došli u položaj jednak Izraelu što se tiče krivnje. ali nisu u isti položaj došli sa Izraelom što se tiče vojne moći.
I zato zbog imbicilnog ponašanja Hamasa ginu oni koji su nedužni na obje strane, a također i oni nesretnici koji nemaju dvije u glavi pa su zavedeni i idu u nekakav sveti rat.
Pa da nije bilo Hamasovog prekida primirija ta teška situacija Paestinaca u pojasu gaze bi polako išla na bolje jer bi i svijet rekao: pa stanite malo vi Izraelci, ne može to tako, oni su dobili svjetsku javnost na svoju stranu.

ali ne, Hamas ne može niti da prizna Izraelu pravo na postojanje, kamo li da vodi Palestince u mir.

Kako ce imati pravo na postojanje kad otmu zemlju Palestincima, tretiraju ih ko stoku i pozivaju se na nekakve knjige i da su odabrani, haman, nebeski narod? Zvuci poznato? Iamli smo takav slucaj i ovdje devedesetih. Ebe se Evrope, otjerali su Zidove iz Evrope pomocu Hitlera, pa su pokusali da se sazale nad njima dajuci im pravo da se vade na Biblije i sta ti ja znam, sve preko ledja Palestinaca. Evropa, kurva stara i uobrazena. USA, ako vec voli zidove, zasto im nisu dali neku drzavu unije, recimo Nebrasku, ili, Oklahomu, pa neka tamo prave Izrael? Vec su ionako istrjebili Indijance, pola Amerike zjapi prazno, a Hollywood blizu.

RAZVODNI SE TEMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
NEKO OTVORIO NOVU POČEO KOPNENI NAPAD NA GAZU.

Zaboravili su Jevreji Hitlera!

alanskoda wrote:ja ovdje sam samo od par ljudi procitao osudu hamasa.kako slusam na vijestima,hamas je prvi prekrsio primirje i gadjao sa raketama izraelske gradove.

Procitaj sta je Uri napisao pa onda pricaj o raketama i Hamasu!

brinetta wrote:Zaboravili su Jevreji Hitlera!

nisu zaboravili vec prave novi holokaust

Nije bitno jel neko zidov ili ne, taj dio price o vjeri, nacionalnosti i slicno me apsolutno ne zanima. Ja gledam stvari crno-bijelo u ovim slucajevima, bez ikakvih emocija i slicnoga. Ako neko stalno prijeti da ce napasti, ni gradjani te drzave se ne mogu osjecati sigurno. Ako nece da se stvari rijese na civilizovan nacin, vojna akcija je po meni jedini logican sljed dogadjaja. Osude javnosti nikoga ne zanimaju, i USA je napala Irak zbog slicnih stvari - il pod slicnim izgovorom. USA, Evropska Unija i jos mnoge zemlje Hamas smatraju teroristickom organizacijom. Vjerovatno imaju dobar razlog za to...