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Zar je to upitno?Tkd wrote:Znači čovjek ima pravo da se izjašnjava kako hoće
Tko? Komšić?no kada ima neke koristi od BiH odmah se deklariše drugačije.
Kojih izmišljenih himni i simbola?Počevši od simbola , to izmišljanja himnih i omaložavanju i negiranju sve što je vezano za BiH.
Ipak hercegovački u većoj mjeri...Počevši od stećaka, imali smo ovdje raspravo. Pitam opet , jesu li oni autohtono bosansko ili ne ?
Bosnian ArchersThe bow has been a traditional weapon of the Slavic people for centuries. The tradition of archery goes back to nomadic times and the Bosnians have kept alive through warfare and practice. Because of its terrain, Bosnia became a "spawning" ground for archers. Great mountains, dense forests and good knowledge about the teritory, helped Bosnia and its people to develop a mobile army of archers. An army trained to fight in ambushes and surprise attacks. Wearing little to no armour and traditional Bosnian shields as protection these Bosnian peasants are levied by their lords when the need arises. An arrow from a peasant can kill just as good as a sword blow from a noble so these men should not be underestimated. These bowmen can be used to screen the main Bosnian army and pepper the enemy army with a hail of arrows. In hand to hand combat they resort to crude axes which are more suitable for carpentry than battle. That is why they should be kept far away from the enemy cavalry and engage in melee battle only as a last resort.
Bosnian SpearmenThese men are commoners hired by the nobles of the land to provide security for their estates, castles and towns. Since there are no free cities in Bosnia, and hence no city militias, these men are the closest thing to law enforcement and keeping the peace in the land. Since they are commoners that can be found all across the land these men will form the bulk of the Bosnian armies' frontline troops aswell as provide garrisons for its mountainous fortresses. Protected by chainmail, padded armours and wing shields and armed with spears they can hold their own against cavalry charges and hold the line against enemy infantry.
Bosnian heavy infantryDue to the nature of the Bosnian feudal system the Ban or the King was always threatened by the power of the local nobility. The royal castles and lands run far and wide across Bosnia and the King's absence from them may lure a greedy noblemen or even a foreign neighbour. In order to protect these lands the Bosnian rulers formed a unit of heavy infantry which was stationed in vulnerable areas. These men are fiercly loyal to the Bosnian ruler as long as their are well paid. They wear heavy breastplates and chainmail for protection and are armed with schiavonesca swords. They can easily go into battle against knights or other heavily armoured opponenets but also against masses of unruly peasants or rebels.
Bosnian CavalryDue to the nature of its terrain the bulk of Bosnia's mounted troops comprised of light cavalry. These cavalrymen formed a mobile army core which knew the land well and proved to be very resilient in the face of superior enemies. Wearing only brigantines or leather armour for protection and a wooden shield, these men sacrifice defence in exchange for greater speed and mobility. They can easily outrun their heavier opponents and armed with cavalry spears, they are perfect for envelopment, flanking and encirclement actions as well as chasing down fleeing enemies.
Bosnian VlastelaThe Vlastella are the nobles and local magnates of the Bosnian state. They are a privileged social class and many descend from the Slavic tribal nobility that colonised the territory in the dark ages. Noble families such as Kacic, Hrvatinic, Kosacic, Blagajic or Zlatnosevic owned large estates which were administered almost like autonomous principalities which were joined together in a loose federation. They are the flower of the Bosnian nobility and if their power becomes too great they may conspire against the Ban. These nobles can afford to buy the heaviest Western arms and armour and ride in battle proudly. They should be used as shock cavalry to spearhead all out charges. Historically, the charge of the Bosnian Vlastella at the Battle of Bileca in 1388 routed the Ottoman army and tipped the outcome of the battle in favour of the Bosnians. Also, Bosnian Vlastella participated in the Battle of Kosovo in 1389.
Bosnian BodyguardsAlthough most of the Bosnian heavy cavalry were part of the Vlastella noble units, a select few made up the Ban's and later the King's personal bodyguard. These heavy horsemen are the elite of the Bosnian army, usually veterans of many past campaigns who are trusted by the Ban or King. Although most of them are great knights and fulfill the role of generals commanding an army, when the Ban or King appeares on the battlefield, they all come to stand behind him. They wear the most expensive armour available to the Bosnian army, directly imported from the great armourers of Dalmatia, Hungary, Italy or Germany and are armed with heavy lances. These men should always be kept in reserve to protect the leaders of the army and only thrown into battle at key points as they have the ability to rally their men and raise the morale all close by troops.
???fortaleza wrote:Ipak hercegovački u većoj mjeri...Počevši od stećaka, imali smo ovdje raspravo. Pitam opet , jesu li oni autohtono bosansko ili ne ?
fortaleza wrote:Zar je to upitno?Tkd wrote:Znači čovjek ima pravo da se izjašnjava kako hoće
Tko? Komšić?no kada ima neke koristi od BiH odmah se deklariše drugačije.
Kojih izmišljenih himni i simbola?Počevši od simbola , to izmišljanja himnih i omaložavanju i negiranju sve što je vezano za BiH.
Ipak hercegovački u većoj mjeri...Počevši od stećaka, imali smo ovdje raspravo. Pitam opet , jesu li oni autohtono bosansko ili ne ?
Da, naravno, velik je taj "znalac" koji koristi ad hominem argumente...Tkd wrote:fortaleza wrote:Zar je to upitno?Tkd wrote:Znači čovjek ima pravo da se izjašnjava kako hoće
Tko? Komšić?no kada ima neke koristi od BiH odmah se deklariše drugačije.
Kojih izmišljenih himni i simbola?Počevši od simbola , to izmišljanja himnih i omaložavanju i negiranju sve što je vezano za BiH.
Ipak hercegovački u većoj mjeri...Počevši od stećaka, imali smo ovdje raspravo. Pitam opet , jesu li oni autohtono bosansko ili ne ?
Hahahahahhaaha
Veće gluposti nisam odavno pročitao. Kada se nađe neki "znalac" da komentariše negdje.
Dobro, treba razumjeti pojedince, nisu oni krivi što im se svašta servira u osnovnoj školi
Postavljena su ti pitanja, tvoje je hoćeš li odgovoriti na njih ili ih izbjeći putem nepotrebne drskosti...Tkd wrote:Ne koristi svako wikipediju kao ti
Ponovno nepotrebno napuhivanje ega i vrijeđanje sugovornika što ne pridonosi raspravi.Tkd wrote:Ne treba mi da ulazim u dublju diskusiju s tobom, da me spustiš na svoj nivo
Zašto bi datum postanja bio ikakav relevantan faktor? Je li to znak da sad ne stojiš iza svojih riječi?Dovoljno sam vidio iz tvojih odgovora na davno postavljeni post.
[/quote][/quote]Dosta pametnom, hvala Bogu.
Da se najveći dio stećaka nalazi u Hercegovini.nickname-83 wrote:
Šta je pisac sa ovim htio reci?
Znamo da Hercegovina nije dio Bosne.Znamo kako je taj dio Bosne
Da bi neko raspravljao o istoriji, red bi mu bio da bar poznaje neke osnovne događaje iz iste. Ajde prosvjetli nas i objasni nam kakav je to imaginarni ili mitski kongres održan u Berlinu 1906!Menkic1235 wrote:Hercegovina je zvanicno odvojena od Bosne 1906. na Berlinskom kongresu. Za vrijeme Austro Ugarske Hrvatski lobij je preko Nijemaca zelio da promovise ideju "Herceg Bosne" sa ciljem da na kraju taj dio pripoje Hrvatskoj. Austro Ugarska je se protiv toga poprilicno bunila.
Nijemac Otto na Berlinskom kongresu promovise tu ideju i 1906. je ta ideja i prihvacena. Tada je se Bosna podijelila na Bosnu i Hercegovinu. Prije toga je dakle recimo Posusje bilo Bosna isto kao i Neum, Mostar itd.
Komunisti u AVNOJU nastavljaju sa tim konceptom i SR BIH se stvara. Sve je to dakle uredu i fino.
Ali ako znaci malo dalje gledamo nego sto nam je nos dug onda vidimo da prije 1906. Hercegovina jeste Bosna. A prije 1850. svi stanovnici Hercegovine se nazivaju Bosnjacima Milletima (Bosnjacki narod) dok su stanovnici recimo Dalmacije koja je pripadala Bosanskom Ejalatu; bili Bosnjaci Villajetu (I Hrvati po etnickoj pripadnosti). O tome svjedoce brojni Turski defteri, putopis Evlije Celebija, i na hiljade franjevackih knjiga iz hercegoavckih manastira.
Ako gledamo jos malo dublje onda dolazimo do Hercegovine iz srednjeg vijeka. Ta Hercegovina je bila znaci u stvari oblastna pokrajina Hercega Stijepana Kosace; kojeg su Bosanski kraljevi nazivali "Velikim Vojvodom" a cija je kcerka bila Bosanska kraljica Katarina. On sam sebe naziva Bosnjaninom a Bosanski krlajevi njegovu zemlju nazivaju "bosanskom zemljom" i "bosanskom stranom". Herceg Stijepan Kosaca je porijeklom iz okoline Gorazda iz sela Kosace.
Ako gledamo jos malo dublje dolazimo do momenta kada je Hercegovina (tada Humska zemlja) pripala Bosni u bitkama iz 1323. kada je nju Stijepan Kotromanic II dobio na macu pobijedivsi Srbe.
Ko kome pripada ?kenny_ wrote:@Menkic1235 -- Eh, nek si rekao Hercegovcima kome uistinu pripadaju... Mora se priznati, muslimani su devedesetih glasno po Hercegovini vikali Bosanci Bosanci... Omer Humo jos u 19. stoljecu rece da je "izmisljeni" Bosnjak i da prica bosanskim jezikom, kao i gradonacelnik Mostara...
Hercegovci imaju dva izbora, hocel Bosni, 'ocel Srbiji. Kako su se emanciipovali od izvornog Zahumlja do Ercegovine i razlicitih plemena na tom prostoru, to vjerovatno ni Kosaca nije najbolje znao, ali ih je pokorio.
A onaj poznati beg Rizvanbegovic zazelio se slave pa opet Ercegovinu kao sandzak odvojio od Bosne. Nakon toga mala Srbija, pa ce opet bit Bosna, ako bog da, ... ma parodija...
Tvrdko, budi se iz sela, bez auto-puta nista!
Ideja Hercegovine kao odvojene teritorije od Bosne u smislu kwazi administrativne jedinice je po prvi put spomenuta na Berlinskom kongresu. Tu ideju su propagirali Nijemci a oni su je propagirali zato sto je Hrvatski lobij igrao na tu kartu.majstorina wrote:Menkic1235 wrote: Da bi neko raspravljao o istoriji, red bi mu bio da bar poznaje neke osnovne događaje iz iste. Ajde prosvjetli nas i objasni nam kakav je to imaginarni ili mitski kongres održan u Berlinu 1906!
Nisi me dobro shvatio. Ja sam rekao ovo:
Nijemac Otto na Berlinskom kongresu promovise tu ideju i 1906. je ta ideja i prihvacena. Tada je se Bosna podijelila na Bosnu i Hercegovinu. Prije toga je dakle recimo Posusje bilo Bosna isto kao i Neum, Mostar itd.
Sto znaci da i prije nego sto je Bosna dobila samo- upravu u sastavu Otomanskog carstva; za svijet (Zapadni) je bilo sasvim jasno da je "donja Bosna" zapravo Bosna a ne neka hercegovina ili humska zemlja. Bnedikt Kuripesich donju Bosnu naziva ovim rijecima:"Bosna se sastoji is gornje Bosne koju karakteriziraju sumovite planine i donje Bosne u kojoj rastu masline, vinogradi i slicne vegetacije."
"Neten Bosnien"
