Ukrajina

[japin_mutapi]

Sto se tice bombardovanja Srbije i Cacka za to su i mnogi ZAPADNI analiticari upozorili da ce se kad tad obiti o glavu (sto se evo upravo desava). UN vijece sigurnosti NIJE DALO ODOBRENJE za to bombardovanje i to taj cin cini nelegitimnim.

nisu ni srbiji dali odobrenje da protjeraju albance sa kosova

[djonko brajs]

ah da pardon, sovjetska akcije u madjarskoj i ceskoj, pa kriza u kubi. ali to nije invazija rusa na kubu vec je tu bio pokusaj invazije amerikanaca na kubu ali ih je kastro poderao u bay of pigs. dakle dodati 2 invazije sovjeta i jednu amerikanaca na listu ali opet je ukupan skor jedno 50 naprema 5 za amerikance u agresijama.

Pa "tri" (gdje su od toga dva puta ceceni poderali "sami" ruse)puta cecenija kad se vec castimo...samo ne znam u cemu je poenta ovog nabrajanja...kad vidis da ti tvoj prvi komentar nije na mjestu.

a ne. cecenija je dio rusije. to je slicno napadu drzave na branch dividians u waco texasu 1993 godine.

[Avetinho]

Da EU ima novca da vještački i propagandno podiže životni standard u svojim kolonijama na istoku i jugu Evrope onda se ne bi dešavalo ono što sam svojim očima gledao u turskom gradu Edirneu, gdje desetine Bugara čekaju u redu da ih na svojim plantažama angažuju lokalni turski zemljoposjednici, jer su dnevnice u Turskoj 3-4 puta veće nego u Bugarskoj koja je članica EU. Turci se danas smiju kada im spominjete kandidaturu jer su im pred očima Bugari i njihova bijeda. Dobro je konstatovao Dodik u današnjem intervju Anadoliji, kada izađete na autoput Beograd-Zagreb zateknete stotine turskih kamiona koji vuku robu za EU, dakle turska ekonomija proizvodi konkurentne proizvode i izvozi u EU, i na istok, uživaju u prosperitetu i blagostanju, iako nisu formalna članica EU. Kada obični Ukrajinac ili Bosanac razmišlja o EU on zamišlja zemlju fantazije kakvu imamo u Njemačkoj, Austriji ili Švicarskoj. Istina je da je današnja EU prostor divergencije, strašnih razlika nezamislivih za bivšu Jugoslaviju, razlika između Rumunije i Austrije, veća je nego što je bila razlika između Kosova i Slovenije. Formalni ulazak u EU ne znači ništa osim ako nemate kvalitetne institucije i konkurentnu privredu. Evo nedavno je i Hrvatska ušla u EU pa su uprkos tome ekonomski pukli ko petarda, a krizi i propadanju se ne nazire kraj. To je dugoročno neodrživo stanje. Postoje statistički izračuni koji kažu da jedan Nijemac izdržava 150 Grka, 320 Bugara i 580 Rumuna. Još im samo fale Ukrajinci. Ukrajinci su se dobro zajebali i jedino što će dobiti od zapada jeste stezanje kaiša i uništenje industrijskog bazena u Donbasu, odnosno gubitak domaćeg tržišta u korist evopskih kompanija. I to je danas dobra opcija, jer postoji opasnost da ih gurnu u samoubilački sukob sa Rusijom u ime „slobode“ i „suvereniteta“. EU je političkom i finansijskom ćorsokaku, nema odgovora na prenos industrijske proizvodnje u Kinu i pitanje je vremena kada će zapasti i u egzistencijalnu krizu. Čitam danas kako kineski Alibaba pravi više prometa nego njegovi zapadni konkurenti Amazon i E bay zajedno, danas Alibaba vrijedi nevjerovatnih 180 milijardi dolara. Ekonomska moć se seli na istok i to je nazaustavljiv proces. Ako Rusija, Kina i Iran uspostave evroazijski trgovinski savez onada je svijet postao bipolaran, jer te zemlje imaju sve što im treba: vojnu moć, energente i industrijsku proizvodnju. Ukrajina je u velikoj dubiozi i potrebno je 50-60 milijardi dolara godišnje da bi se samo održavala u životu. Te pare Ukrajini niko neće dati, jadni narod će propasti u još goru socijalnu agoniju, zemlja će se podijeliti dok će se Evroazija i Zapad prepucavati preko ničije zemlje, odnosno tuđih leđa, a kriminalni savez tajkuna i političara i dalje će vladati Ukrajinom. Za mjesec-dva, to će biti jedini konkretan epilog ove frke oko Ukrajine.

Vidim i ovdje mlada putincad kmeci nad izgubljenim blagostanjem iz vremena milog nam CCCP-a.

[djonko brajs]

Da EU ima novca da vještački i propagandno podiže životni standard u svojim kolonijama na istoku i jugu Evrope onda se ne bi dešavalo ono što sam svojim očima gledao u turskom gradu Edirneu, gdje desetine Bugara čekaju u redu da ih na svojim plantažama angažuju lokalni turski zemljoposjednici, jer su dnevnice u Turskoj 3-4 puta veće nego u Bugarskoj koja je članica EU. Turci se danas smiju kada im spominjete kandidaturu jer su im pred očima Bugari i njihova bijeda. Dobro je konstatovao Dodik u današnjem intervju Anadoliji, kada izađete na autoput Beograd-Zagreb zateknete stotine turskih kamiona koji vuku robu za EU, dakle turska ekonomija proizvodi konkurentne proizvode i izvozi u EU, i na istok, uživaju u prosperitetu i blagostanju, iako nisu formalna članica EU. Kada obični Ukrajinac ili Bosanac razmišlja o EU on zamišlja zemlju fantazije kakvu imamo u Njemačkoj, Austriji ili Švicarskoj. Istina je da je današnja EU prostor divergencije, strašnih razlika nezamislivih za bivšu Jugoslaviju, razlika između Rumunije i Austrije, veća je nego što je bila razlika između Kosova i Slovenije. Formalni ulazak u EU ne znači ništa osim ako nemate kvalitetne institucije i konkurentnu privredu. Evo nedavno je i Hrvatska ušla u EU pa su uprkos tome ekonomski pukli ko petarda, a krizi i propadanju se ne nazire kraj. To je dugoročno neodrživo stanje. Postoje statistički izračuni koji kažu da jedan Nijemac izdržava 150 Grka, 320 Bugara i 580 Rumuna. Još im samo fale Ukrajinci. Ukrajinci su se dobro zajebali i jedino što će dobiti od zapada jeste stezanje kaiša i uništenje industrijskog bazena u Donbasu, odnosno gubitak domaćeg tržišta u korist evopskih kompanija. I to je danas dobra opcija, jer postoji opasnost da ih gurnu u samoubilački sukob sa Rusijom u ime „slobode“ i „suvereniteta“. EU je političkom i finansijskom ćorsokaku, nema odgovora na prenos industrijske proizvodnje u Kinu i pitanje je vremena kada će zapasti i u egzistencijalnu krizu. Čitam danas kako kineski Alibaba pravi više prometa nego njegovi zapadni konkurenti Amazon i E bay zajedno, danas Alibaba vrijedi nevjerovatnih 180 milijardi dolara. Ekonomska moć se seli na istok i to je nazaustavljiv proces. Ako Rusija, Kina i Iran uspostave evroazijski trgovinski savez onada je svijet postao bipolaran, jer te zemlje imaju sve što im treba: vojnu moć, energente i industrijsku proizvodnju. Ukrajina je u velikoj dubiozi i potrebno je 50-60 milijardi dolara godišnje da bi se samo održavala u životu. Te pare Ukrajini niko neće dati, jadni narod će propasti u još goru socijalnu agoniju, zemlja će se podijeliti dok će se Evroazija i Zapad prepucavati preko ničije zemlje, odnosno tuđih leđa, a kriminalni savez tajkuna i političara i dalje će vladati Ukrajinom. Za mjesec-dva, to će biti jedini konkretan epilog ove frke oko Ukrajine.

ma nemoj? a jesi li ti ikad sjeo u golfa pa u ladu? i znas li ko pravi iPhone amerika ili rusija?

[General War]

a ne. cecenija je dio rusije. to je slicno napadu drzave na branch dividians u waco texasu 1993 godine.

Ni blizu...kakve ima veze sekta i teznje jednog naroda za svojom drzavom...i onda dolazimo do Krima (ako je po tvojoj definiciji), Krim je dio Ukrajine...i sta ce rusi tamo?

[jefferson]

ah da pardon, sovjetska akcije u madjarskoj i ceskoj, pa kriza u kubi. ali to nije invazija rusa na kubu vec je tu bio pokusaj invazije amerikanaca na kubu ali ih je kastro poderao u bay of pigs. dakle dodati 2 invazije sovjeta i jednu amerikanaca na listu ali opet je ukupan skor jedno 50 naprema 5 za amerikance u agresijama.

Pa "tri" (gdje su od toga dva puta ceceni poderali "sami" ruse)puta cecenija kad se vec castimo...samo ne znam u cemu je poenta ovog nabrajanja...kad vidis da ti tvoj prvi komentar nije na mjestu.

a ne. cecenija je dio rusije. to je slicno napadu drzave na branch dividians u waco texasu 1993 godine.

Ja koliko znam Sovjeti su bili upetljani u svaki prevrat vlade u Juznoj Americi, samo sto su to Amerikanci daleko bolje radili.
I danas se petljaju isto tako u Venecuelu, Boliviju itd, vidjet cemo kako ce se zavrsiti, ali kako stvari stoje u venecueli, slabo se nesto taj Putinov anti-imeprijalizam pije vode na duze vrijeme.

[Kikibombona]

Ljudi sta je vama? Koje medjunarodno pravo?
Ono koje nekolicini zemalja daje pravo na veto za sve sto im nije u interesu?

Medjunarodno "pravo" je zajebancija koja tjesi gradjane malih zemalja da eto i oni ko nesto vrede i da neko uvazava njihovo misljenje i interese.

Jaci tlaci, uvek je tako bilo i tako ce ostati.

Medjunarodno pravo, kurac moj.

Da sam mod dijelio bih banove na pomen 'medjunarodnog prava'.

Znaci, nista od sankcije!? Ni su ni svabe veslo sisale da ih namagarce Ameri i Englezi.

[chupacabra]

Dobro, znamo da vlada zakon jaceg i tako je bilo a tako ce i ostati. Pitanje je samo koji silnik je u datom trenutku manje zlo. Pored svih mana Amerike, a tu prije svega mislim na njihovu vanjsku politiku, to je trenutno najmanje imperijalisticko zlo. Moze li samo neko zamisliti kako bi svijet izgledao da americku ulogu preuzme Rusija ili Kina. Ja sigurno ne mogu. A medjunarodno pravo, to je samo zajebancija za male. Veliki imaju Vijece Sigurnosti gdje svakako sve mogu blokirati, a kad ne mogu, onda jednostavno rade na svoju ruku i tu im niko nista ne moze. Nama je u strateskom interesu da se toliko uvucemo amerima u guzicu, da nam samo noge vire. Posto smo mi jedan obicni isprdak od 3.5 miliona stanovnika velicine jednog predgradja bilo koje americke metropole, ne obaziru se puno na nas. Tu je Bondsteel ako stvari krenu nezeljenim putem to jest ako komarci poput Dodika iniciraju neko sranje.

Krim je zavrsena prica, bice malo diplomatskog natezanja i "k'o fol" sankcija, ali ce se za par mjeseci sve vratiti na normalu. Nece niko zapoceti vece sranje zbog malog poluotoka koji je svakako ruski. Svaki veliki uzme sto u datom trenutku smatra da je njegov strateski interes. U ovom slucaju je to bila kontrola nad Crnim Morem preko ovog Krima, gdje je ogromna vojna baza mornarice. Da li je iko pametan mislio da ce Rusi dozvoliti da im se NATO uvuce na njihovu stranu obale Crnog Mora, i preuzme stratesku kontrolu nad ovim podrucjem.

[UnscarD]

Izvini, ja sam mislio da pričamo o NATO-u. Napisao si bio NATO, pa sam zato pomislio.

Naravno da će SAD intervenisati, oni podržavali antikomuniste gdje god su mogli, Rusi i Kinezi podržavali komuniste gdje god su mogli. Pa bio je Hladni rat, o čemu mi pričamo? Borili su se i jedni i drugi za prevlast gdje god su stigli.

Masakr desetina hiljada civila? Oko 3 hiljade civila nije isto što i desetine hiljada. Štrašan je bilo koji broj ljudi ubijenih zbog određenog političkog ubjeđenja, ali da ne pretjerujemo.

EDIT: Intervencija u Koreji je podržana od strane UN-a, kao i Afganistan, Irak, Libija, ne da mi se tražiti tačne rezolucije.

Pricam generalno o zapadnom imperijalizmu i duplim standardima koje pokusavaju da primjenjuju. NATO je tu znacajna alatka.

Moja poenta je da nije u redu primjenjivati jedne standarde na druge a ne primjenjivati ih na sebe.
Konkretno oko Ukraine, referendum na Krimu je nelegalan po Ukrajinskom ustavu ali je smjena Janukovica legalna? Ne moze ustav biti savitljiva kategorija i biti selektivno primjenjivan.

Sto se tice bombardovanja Srbije i Cacka za to su i mnogi ZAPADNI analiticari upozorili da ce se kad tad obiti o glavu (sto se evo upravo desava). UN vijece sigurnosti NIJE DALO ODOBRENJE za to bombardovanje i to taj cin cini nelegitimnim. Ovakvo ponasanje bi omogucilo slobodno i jednostrano interpretiranje bilo kojeg konflikta u svijetu. USA su to uradile jer su bile na krilima pobjede u hladnom ratu u svijetu koji je tada bio unipolaran sa jednom jedinom supersilom na jednoj strani i pijanim Jeljcinom na drugoj. Stvari vise tako ne stoje a zapadu se obije o glavu zanemarivanje medjunarodnog poretka i prava.

Ja se ne sjecam da je SAD proglasilo Kosovo 51 drzavom? Ispravi me ako grjesim.

U pravu si ...ali ni ja se ne sjecam da je USA dala Srbiji kosovo prije 50-60 godina a nisam znao ni to da su Amerikanci na Kosovu vecinsko stanovnistvo.

[vivaldi]

Dobro, znamo da vlada zakon jaceg i tako je bilo a tako ce i ostati. Pitanje je samo koji silnik je u datom trenutku manje zlo. Pored svih mana Amerike, a tu prije svega mislim na njihovu vanjsku politiku, to je trenutno najmanje imperijalisticko zlo. Moze li samo neko zamisliti kako bi svijet izgledao da americku ulogu preuzme Rusija ili Kina. Ja sigurno ne mogu. A medjunarodno pravo, to je samo zajebancija za male. Veliki imaju Vijece Sigurnosti gdje svakako sve mogu blokirati, a kad ne mogu, onda jednostavno rade na svoju ruku i tu im niko nista ne moze. Nama je u strateskom interesu da se toliko uvucemo amerima u guzicu, da nam samo noge vire. Posto smo mi jedan obicni isprdak od 3.5 miliona stanovnika velicine jednog predgradja bilo koje americke metropole, ne obaziru se puno na nas. Tu je Bondsteel ako stvari krenu nezeljenim putem to jest ako komarci poput Dodika iniciraju neko sranje.

Krim je zavrsena prica, bice malo diplomatskog natezanja i "k'o fol" sankcija, ali ce se za par mjeseci sve vratiti na normalu. Nece niko zapoceti vece sranje zbog malog poluotoka koji je svakako ruski. Svaki veliki uzme sto u datom trenutku smatra da je njegov strateski interes. U ovom slucaju je to bila kontrola nad Crnim Morem preko ovog Krima, gdje je ogromna vojna baza mornarice. Da li je iko pametan mislio da ce Rusi dozvoliti da im se NATO uvuce na njihovu stranu obale Crnog Mora, i preuzme stratesku kontrolu nad ovim podrucjem.

najposteniji post na temi

[Kikibombona]

Dobro, znamo da vlada zakon jaceg i tako je bilo a tako ce i ostati. Pitanje je samo koji silnik je u datom trenutku manje zlo. Pored svih mana Amerike, a tu prije svega mislim na njihovu vanjsku politiku, to je trenutno najmanje imperijalisticko zlo. Moze li samo neko zamisliti kako bi svijet izgledao da americku ulogu preuzme Rusija ili Kina. Ja sigurno ne mogu. A medjunarodno pravo, to je samo zajebancija za male. Veliki imaju Vijece Sigurnosti gdje svakako sve mogu blokirati, a kad ne mogu, onda jednostavno rade na svoju ruku i tu im niko nista ne moze. Nama je u strateskom interesu da se toliko uvucemo amerima u guzicu, da nam samo noge vire. Posto smo mi jedan obicni isprdak od 3.5 miliona stanovnika velicine jednog predgradja bilo koje americke metropole, ne obaziru se puno na nas. Tu je Bondsteel ako stvari krenu nezeljenim putem to jest ako komarci poput Dodika iniciraju neko sranje.

Krim je zavrsena prica, bice malo diplomatskog natezanja i "k'o fol" sankcija, ali ce se za par mjeseci sve vratiti na normalu. Nece niko zapoceti vece sranje zbog malog poluotoka koji je svakako ruski. Svaki veliki uzme sto u datom trenutku smatra da je njegov strateski interes. U ovom slucaju je to bila kontrola nad Crnim Morem preko ovog Krima, gdje je ogromna vojna baza mornarice. Da li je iko pametan mislio da ce Rusi dozvoliti da im se NATO uvuce na njihovu stranu obale Crnog Mora, i preuzme stratesku kontrolu nad ovim podrucjem.

najposteniji post na temi

Slazem se.

[UnscarD]

Pa "tri" (gdje su od toga dva puta ceceni poderali "sami" ruse)puta cecenija kad se vec castimo...samo ne znam u cemu je poenta ovog nabrajanja...kad vidis da ti tvoj prvi komentar nije na mjestu.

a ne. cecenija je dio rusije. to je slicno napadu drzave na branch dividians u waco texasu 1993 godine.

Ja koliko znam Sovjeti su bili upetljani u svaki prevrat vlade u Juznoj Americi, samo sto su to Amerikanci daleko bolje radili.
I danas se petljaju isto tako u Venecuelu, Boliviju itd, vidjet cemo kako ce se zavrsiti, ali kako stvari stoje u venecueli, slabo se nesto taj Putinov anti-imeprijalizam pije vode na duze vrijeme.

Moras gledati malo dalje od Edward Bernay propagadne masine koji je koristio komunizam kao izgovor za prevrate i intervencije. Propaganda koju je npr kreirao oko Gvaemale koja uopste nije imala cak ni Sovjetsku ambasadu su dobro dokumentovane i kasnije koristene kao model a vise detalja mozes naci ispod .
" The United Fruit company even hired a public relations expert to take measures on its behalf, Edward Bernays, whose work history included being the adviser to the U.S. delegation to the Paris peace conference after the first world war (Schlesinger and Kinzer 80). <br />When Edward Bernays was hired by United Fruit to solve their public relations problem, he set out initially to influence Central American opinion by establishing newspapers in and throughout the area. Employee newspapers were distributed in Guatemala, Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras and a weekly "Latin American Report" was created. Bernays supplied facts and figures of his own making to Latin and American journalists . In 1950 Bernays got the New York Herald Tribune to send a reporter to Guatemala. The reporter did not veer far from United Fruit Company officials in his search for a report when he wrote a piece called "Communism in the Caribbean" which appeared on the front page of the paper for five days. Bernays also got a friend at the New York Times to send a reporter to Guatemala, and this reporter returned with a story which made unfounded claims of a vast communist infiltration in the country. In a masterful stroke of omission, the American press barely reported on a press conference held by Samuel Guy Inman, an American professor and writer, who had interviewed President Arevalo of Guatemala in 1950. In the interview Arevelo expressed solidarity with the major capitalist powers, proclaiming that Guatemala had no ties to Europe or Asia, and that in the event of a major conflict, his country was completely on the side of the United States (Schlesinger and Kinzer 82-85). Bernays's first wave had been successful in spreading the UFC message and in eliminating opposing voices.<br />Bernays's second major propaganda offensive on United Fruit Company's behalf began in 1951. In similar fashion of the year before, Bernays relied on the New York Times to provide a reporter who would visit Guatemala and return with a message which echoed that of Bernays's. The journalist, Crede H. Calhoun, used the term "Red" for communist in his report of the ominous threat of communism in the banana republic, yet Bernays praised Calhoun for his objectivity. The media's need for sensationalism became larger and Newsweek, U.S. News and World Report, Time, and the Atlantic Monthly all responded to Calhoun's report by sending their own journalists to Guatemala to cover the growth of Marxism. Bernays in 1952 began to organize field trips for journalists of major media agencies and newspapers. The United Fruit Company planned and carried out two-week tours of Guatemala for journalists who would have all their expenses paid, be shown around a beautiful country, and given an official line to tout by the local public relations officer Ed Whitman. Journalists interviewed people whom the United Fruit Company selected and they all returned to their agencies having been shown how United Fruit was doing good things in Guatemala but was being attacked and pressured by communist forces. Immediately after the land expropriations of the Arbenz government which took place within the agrarian reform, Bernays dispatched another team of journalists to cover what he claimed was proof that Guatemala had finally fallen to Communism; he ultimately succeeded in saturating the American public with his propaganda message (Schlesinger and Kinzer 86-88). <br />In 1952 the United Fruit Company commissioned John Clements to write a report on Communist infiltration in the Guatemalan government. Clements was a vice-president of the infamous Hearst newspaper corporation, an ex-marine, and an editor of The American Mercury, a right-wing publication. He was paid $35,000 for the 235-page study, and his report soon found its way into the hands of politically influential people within American government. His work even became a reference and a resource for official government business. In 1953 he came out with another report, which complained that the U.S. needed to overthrow President Arbenz immediately. Clements later went on to represent Castillo Armas's (the U.S.-chosen replacement president) interests in the United States for $8,000 a month after Armas was put in power. When Clements died in 1975 Hearst Corporation executives retrieved and burned his files to avoid any potential lawsuits (Schlesinger and Kinzer 94-96). The United Fruit Company had lobbied the government and controlled the press, capturing the hearts and minds of the American public and enlisting the might of the U.S. federal government.<br />The United States Information Agency was also instrumental in creating and publishing propaganda. Schlesinger and Kinzer (166-167) write:<br />"In June alone, USIA propagandists wrote more than 200 articles about Guatemala based on information from CIA sources, and distributed them for anonymous placement in scores of Latin newspapers. The agency shipped more than 100,000 copies of a pamphlet called "Chronology of Communism in Guatemala" throughout Latin America. Twenty-seven thousand copies of anti-Communist cartoons and posters were also distributed. The USIA also produced three special movies on Guatemala, including one on the Caracas OAS meeting, as well as reels of news footage favorable to the United States for showing free in movie houses in Latin America. The agency persuaded radio stations in friendly countries like Cuba to run 'hard-hitting commentaries' on Guatemala at peak listening hours as the Castillo Armas invasion neared. An experienced USIA press officer was sent to the American Embassy in Honduras to brief 'selected correspondents' on 'inside' accounts of events once the coup began as a way of offsetting anticipated hostile foreign news reports about the invasion. One internal State Department memo reported that 'the program of smearing Guatemalan maneuvers in advance was proceeding satisfactorily."<br />The CIA also set up a radio station seven weeks before Operation PBSUCCESS with the express purpose of broadcasting anti-Arbenz propaganda and to urge Guatemalans to side with Castillo Armas. It was called La Voz de la Liberacion, or the Voice of Liberation, and it claimed to be broadcasting "deep from within the jungle" of Guatemala, although it was actually being broadcast from neighboring countries. The radio station played popular music and had programming from a regionally famous comedian. The target audience were women, soldiers, workers, and young people. The CIA wanted to influence the soldiers to not defend Arbenz in the event of an armed conflict, and the station reported that Arbenz's secret plan was to disband the armed forces and form a peasant militia, a message which the CIA eventually printed onto leaflets and airdropped into the country. The broad purpose of the radio station was to intimidate Guatemalan listeners (Schlesinger and Kinzer 167-168). During the invasion of Castillo Armas the radio station issued false reports of troop movements causing many Guatemalans to flee to the countryside and at the same time wonder why there weren't any invading forces to fight through (Schlesinger and Kinzer 192).<br />special techniques to maximize effect<br />The Central Intelligence Agency went on the offensive searching for any dissenting voices that might provide any formidable opposition. Their main target was Sydney Gruson, a journalist for the New York Times. Assigned to Mexico City, Gruson's circuit included the country of Guatemala. Gruson was fairly objective, and when compared to the journalists who were being courted by the United Fruit Company, he was the benchmark for objectivity. Gruson had been kicked out of Guatemala after writing a piece that made President Arbenz out to be a communist sympathizer. Later he was readmitted to Guatemala, but once again caught Guatemalan ire when he covered the Alfhem incident, depicting Guatemalans and other Latins getting behind Arbenz to oppose America. Gruson said that the major theme in Central America was not communist, anti-communist, anti or pro-American, but that it was nationalism (Schlesinger and Kinzer 154). This concept proved an obstacle for the CIA and United Fruit, whose interest was much better served if they could cast all the events in Guatemala as being a heinous plot by communist agents to sabotage the great fruit machine and subvert democracy. Any other context might cause people to consider that the internal events of Guatemala reflected a growing disgust with globalization and a strong desire to assert political and economic independence. <br />The CIA contacted the New York Times and got publisher Arthur Hays Sulzberger to keep Gruson in Mexico City and out of Guatemala. The CIA told Sulzberger that Gruson had been at an event in Mexico City along with Czech diplomats and that he might be a sympathizer. Sulzberger complied and kept Gruson out of Guatemala, and Gruson never got to complete an investigation into Castillo Armas's connection with a possible invasion of Guatemala (Schlesinger and Kinzer 154).<br />In 1949 the United States cut off military aid to Guatemala. Two years later it had organized an international arms boycott against in Guatemala in 1951 and then continued to take active measures in preventing the importation of arms into the country. When President Arbenz sought weapons from Czechoslovakia, an eastern bloc country under communist control, the United States used this "illegal" arms shipment from a communist country as proof that the communists were gaining power in Guatemala (Streeter 27).<br />The CIA also made an effort to utilize the Catholic church in Guatemala in order to raise awareness of a Communist threat. A Cardinal in New York was approached by the CIA to arrange contact with the Guatemalan archbishop. In April of 1954, a pastoral letter was read in all Guatemalan churches urging all Guatemalans to stand up against "this enemy of God and country." The CIA then took this letter and made pamphlets which it later airdropped over Guatemala (Schlesinger and Kinzer 155).<br />A man named Pepe, one of the Guatemalans with the CIA at the Voice of Liberation radio station, approached a retired Air Force Colonel who had defected, Mendoza Azurdia, on June 4, 1954 and proposed he create a taped message imploring Guatemalan Air Force pilots to defect with their aircraft and to give instructions on how to do it safely. The Colonel was against the idea and refused. However, as the two men had drinks together, Pepe insured that the Colonel's glass was never empty and the Colonel soon became drunk. Pepe asked the Colonel how he might speak if he were to broadcast a message of the sort had he agreed to do so. The Colonel stood up and gave an enthusiastic demonstration. Little did the Colonel know that Pepe was secretly recording their cocktail party and that his performance would be edited and then broadcast as the message the CIA had originally desired (Schlesinger and Kinzer 168-169).<br />During the invasion of Castillo Armas and his forces, President Jacobo Arbenz chose to ward off the invasion delicately, fearing that a strong reaction might provide a pretext for a U.S. invasion. Arbenz is quoted as saying "This invasion is a farce. We can shoo them away with our hats. What I'm afraid of- and this is why I ordered Diaz to let the mercenaries advance into our territory- what I'm afraid of is that if we defeat them right on the border, the Honduran government will manufacture a border incident, declare war on us, and the United States will invade. (Gleijeses 324)" Maybe the United States did not realize it but by sending in a lackluster force it served to make any counterattack by the trained Guatemalan army a potential massacre for the rebels, an event which might only stir up more anti-Arbenz feelings.<br />During Operation PBSUCCESS, a P-47 aircraft flew over a Honduran town and mistakenly bombed it. Secretary Dulles used the mistake against Arbenz, saying that it was Guatemala which was attacking its neighbor. The government of Honduras believed Dulles and threatened retaliation against Guatemala (Gleijeses 340).<br />John Foster Dulles went on national radio the day after the overthrow of Arbenz with a great deal of enthusiasm, proclaiming that the Guatemalans had patriotically rose to overthrow the Communist regime themselves. Not everyone around the world on the allied side believed him, and he received criticism from Labour Party leader Clement Attlee in Britain, who described the events in Guatemala as a "putsch" (Schlesinger and Kinzer 216-217).<br />audience reaction to various techniques<br />The propaganda campaign undertaken by the CIA was effective in convincing the officers of the Guatemalan army that if they fought back and defeated Castillo Armas, then a U.S. invasion would inevitably follow (Gleijeses 341). While the Guatemalan army was impressive by Central American standards, it was no match for the potential military might of the United States.<br />United Fruit Company propaganda was successful in convincing the American public to get on its side. The UFC also succeeded in lobbying the U.S. government to take action which would be mutually beneficial.<br />counterpropaganda<br />One of the reasons the United Fruit Company was so successful in its propaganda campaign was that Guatemala never had an organized effort in making a case for itself in the U.S. press (Schlesinger and Kinzer 90). The U.S. considered Guatemalan agrarian reform to be propaganda itself. In the U.S. it was thought that agrarian reform would spread across Central America because it appealed to such a wide audience and because it represented in some peoples' eyes an end to "colonialism" and "feudalism", two powerful propagandistic terms used to describe the structures of the economy throughout the area (Streeter 22). <br />Jacobo Arbenz had discovered plans for his overthrow six months prior to the execution of Operation PBSUCCESS. When he disclosed documents related to the plan, the press rejected it as being his own propaganda, and not much more. It was also interpreted as Arbenz issuing his own propaganda as a pretext to seize dictatorial powers. By this time there was very little belief that he was not somehow guilty of the charges of communism (Cullather 55). <br />On the night Arbenz stepped down as President he addressed Guatemalans on radio, however the transmission was partially jammed by the CIA and was largely ignored as many tuned into the Voice of Liberation radio station, which would be shut down the next day. Arbenz's speech was not allowed to be printed for over a month after it was made. Arbenz talked to Guatemala:<br />"Workers, peasants, patriots, my friends: people of Guatemala: Guatemala is enduring a most difficult trial. For fifteen days a cruel war against Guatemala has been underway. The United Fruit Company, in collaboration with the governing circles of the United States, is responsible for what is happening to us.... In whose name have the carried out these barbaric acts? What is their banner? We know very well. They have used the pretext of anti-communism. The truth is very different. The truth is to be found in the financial interests of the fruit company and the other U.S. monopolies which have invested great amounts of money in Latin America and fear that the example of Guatemala would be followed by other Latin countries... I was elected by a majority of the people of Guatemala, but I have had to fight under difficult conditions. The truth is that the sovereignty of a people cannot be maintained without the material elements to defend it... I took over the presidency with great faith in the democratic system, in liberty and in the possibility of achieving economic independence for Guatemala. I continue to believe that this program is just. I have not violated my faith in democratic liberties, in the independence of Guatemala and in all the good which is the future of humanity..."<br />In a nearly prophetic voice Arbenz went on to say:<br />"A government different from mine, but always inspired by our October revolution, is preferable to twenty years of fascist bloody tyranny under the rule of the bands which Castillo Armas has brought into the country...(Schlesinger and Kinzer 199-200)" <br />events and evaluation <br />Castillo Armas returned all expropriated land to the United Fruit Company upon taking power and returned their original contract. <br />The Department of Justice had its eye on the United Fruit Company for some time and filed an antitrust suit right after Armas became President of Guatemala. John Dulles did not mind as it served to distance the U.S. government from the UFC. The suit gave an appearance of objectivity for the Eisenhower administration and did not end until 1958, despite heavy lobbying by United Fruit. United Fruit Company eventually had to give land to locals and give them a share of the market by order of the Department of Justice and in another suit had to relinquish their controlling interest in the IRCA Railroad Company. Eventually United Fruit Company sold all remaining land holdings to the Del Monte corporation (Schlesinger and Kinzer 220,229). Even the United Fruit Company did not come out a winner in the years after the replacement of Arbenz. <br />In documents later found at United Fruit Company warehouses many years later, correspondence of company lobbyists in Central America showed how the company enjoyed access to generals, presidents, and labor inspectors. These letters joked of how the company was lying about corporate profits to local officials, how they were able to get taxes lowered and how they were able to change labor laws (Bourgois 107). It was this far-reaching influence and advantage which eventually earned the United Fruit Company the nickname "El Pulpo", which means "The Octopus". <br />Three years of Armas in office was less than stable, and he survived multiple internal attempts to overthrow him. Armas endured a scandal from which he never recovered regarding the importation of corn, corn which later turned out to be unfit for consumption. Armas had received an amount of money from the importers and many students in Guatemala interpreted it as bribery. Armas denied any foul play, claiming that it was a repayment for a personal loan. Sometime later Armas's government officers were treated with hostility in a public ceremony, and Arbas declared a state of siege, ordering the military to suppress all strikes from labor groups because it was part of a larger Communist plot. Armas was killed on July 27, 1957 in his official palace residence by a lone gunman who then immediately killed himself (Schlesinger and Kinzer 235). <br />From 1955 to 1985 in Guatemala about 150,000 people died and another 40,000 went missing as a result of the unrest in the country."

[UnscarD]

Sto se tice bombardovanja Srbije i Cacka za to su i mnogi ZAPADNI analiticari upozorili da ce se kad tad obiti o glavu (sto se evo upravo desava). UN vijece sigurnosti NIJE DALO ODOBRENJE za to bombardovanje i to taj cin cini nelegitimnim.

nisu ni srbiji dali odobrenje da protjeraju albance sa kosova

Naravno da nisu . Ja uopste ne ulazim u opravdanost intervencije niti mi je to cilj. Poenta je da je sa aspekta medjunarodnog prava intervencija bila nelegalna i ova i jos nekolicina zapadnih "akcija" sada Rusima daju opravdanje za ono sto oni rade. Poenta je da se sada zapad poziva na principe koje sami nisu postovali kada im to nije odgovaralo a to se naziva DUPLIM STANDARDIMA ili narodski receno, licemjerstvom.

[djonko brajs]

Dobro, znamo da vlada zakon jaceg i tako je bilo a tako ce i ostati. Pitanje je samo koji silnik je u datom trenutku manje zlo. Pored svih mana Amerike, a tu prije svega mislim na njihovu vanjsku politiku, to je trenutno najmanje imperijalisticko zlo. Moze li samo neko zamisliti kako bi svijet izgledao da americku ulogu preuzme Rusija ili Kina. Ja sigurno ne mogu. A medjunarodno pravo, to je samo zajebancija za male. Veliki imaju Vijece Sigurnosti gdje svakako sve mogu blokirati, a kad ne mogu, onda jednostavno rade na svoju ruku i tu im niko nista ne moze. Nama je u strateskom interesu da se toliko uvucemo amerima u guzicu, da nam samo noge vire. Posto smo mi jedan obicni isprdak od 3.5 miliona stanovnika velicine jednog predgradja bilo koje americke metropole, ne obaziru se puno na nas. Tu je Bondsteel ako stvari krenu nezeljenim putem to jest ako komarci poput Dodika iniciraju neko sranje.

Krim je zavrsena prica, bice malo diplomatskog natezanja i "k'o fol" sankcija, ali ce se za par mjeseci sve vratiti na normalu. Nece niko zapoceti vece sranje zbog malog poluotoka koji je svakako ruski. Svaki veliki uzme sto u datom trenutku smatra da je njegov strateski interes. U ovom slucaju je to bila kontrola nad Crnim Morem preko ovog Krima, gdje je ogromna vojna baza mornarice. Da li je iko pametan mislio da ce Rusi dozvoliti da im se NATO uvuce na njihovu stranu obale Crnog Mora, i preuzme stratesku kontrolu nad ovim podrucjem.

najposteniji post na temi

ovo su uobicajene povrsne analize koja slusam 20 + godina....

ono sto vi ne shvatate je to da amerika nije "fina" u odnosu na kinu i rusiju zato sto je vise humana i demokratska vec samo zato sto kao bogatija zemlja moze da se sluzi sufistikovanijim metodama kontrole svojih građana i ostatka svijeta (kao i njihovom indoktrinacijom).

lakse je kada kao NSA u kojoj je radio Snowden mozete da svakoga pratite i uđete mu u trag, onda nemate potrebe zatvarati, progoniti i fizički sikanirati ljude u toj mjeri kao kina ili rusija (guantanamo torture notwithstanding).

upravo zato amerika i jeste puno opasnija. sad na ovo dodajmo generalni trend kojim kapitalizam ide, naime simbioza korporacije i drzave i guranje demokratske procedure u stranu, buducnost ove planete bez neke nove komunisticke emancipatorske revolicije nije nimalo svijetla.

[Martinez_]

Mnogi još ne uspevaju da se pomire sa činjenicom da Rusija uzvraća US punom merom, čini sve što je prva činila unazad 20 - 30 godina....pa kako to sad, pa kako smeju, pa joj....eh

[sumirprimus]

Mnogi još ne uspevaju da se pomire sa činjenicom da Rusija uzvraća US punom merom, čini sve što je prva činila unazad 20 - 30 godina....pa kako to sad, pa kako smeju, pa joj....eh

znaci dragi brate kale,nema dalje.kome ba uzvraca na svojoj granici,cime,koji m ulogom?

[Martinez_]

Mnogi još ne uspevaju da se pomire sa činjenicom da Rusija uzvraća US punom merom, čini sve što je prva činila unazad 20 - 30 godina....pa kako to sad, pa kako smeju, pa joj....eh

znaci dragi brate kale,nema dalje.kome ba uzvraca na svojoj granici,cime,koji m ulogom?

Tako je, prezaduženi zapadnjak (od 50 - 200 000 dolara po glavi) je sanjao da će ga u 2014. jedan Rus ovako nasekirati. Sve bogatiji Rus i Kinezu i Brazilac...


Eh...mladosti

[Martinez_]

Istina.


Sila.




Pravda.

[djonko brajs]

svijet sigurno srlja u propast, ubrzano otkad svijetom vlada jedna sila i jedna ideologija.

paradoks je u tome da, cak i ako su rivali te sile (rusija, kina) kao alternativa gori, bolje je da se svijet izbalansira i da postane multipolaran.

ako slucajno vaga prevagne u korist rusije, kine ili indije kao singularne sile onda ce pametni ljudi opet navijati za ameriku da se svijet izbalansira.

vidite, u tome je fazon. sad je dobro da rusi pokazu zube a zasto i kako to rade je sekundarno.

[sumirprimus]

Mnogi još ne uspevaju da se pomire sa činjenicom da Rusija uzvraća US punom merom, čini sve što je prva činila unazad 20 - 30 godina....pa kako to sad, pa kako smeju, pa joj....eh

znaci dragi brate kale,nema dalje.kome ba uzvraca na svojoj granici,cime,koji m ulogom?

Tako je, prezaduženi zapadnjak (od 50 - 200 000 dolara po glavi) je sanjao da će ga u 2014. jedan Rus ovako nasekirati. Sve bogatiji Rus i Kinezu i Brazilac...


Eh...mladosti

kome ti baovoj djeci sto se lozena antiglobalizam ana3hiju itd etc?mani suplje,inastavislobodn8 bez čene jerbose grohot8m smijem

[nihoniho]

Amerika i saveznici su je ulozili strahovito puno vremena, novca i truda, prvo da srusi SSSR, a onda i da Rusiju ucini ekonomski odrzivom i izbjegne stvaranje haosa ranom postsovjetskom periodu. Naravno, nisu to radili na lijepe oci i
stvorene su ekonomske veze na obostranu korist.
Sada su u neobranom grozdju, jer uvodjenje sankcija zanaci zaostravanje odnosa na nivou hladnog rata i rusenje svega izgradjenog u odnosu sa Rusijom , u posljednjih 20 godina. Puno je ekonomske stete , narocito za Njemce , Austrijance , problem snabdjevanja gasom, jer je potrebno bar 2-3 godine da se izgrade alternativane rute...
Problem je Putinova nepredvidivost , dokle je spreman ici, sta mu je slijedeci potez..
Puno stete je naneseno ukrajinskom krizom ali ako zapad odluci da krene u ekonomski rat sa Rusijom, tu nema zajebancije, vratice ih na nivo SSSR i jednom zauvijek rijesiti taj slucaj.
Sto se tice medjunarodnog prava , pise ga jaci, to je uglavnom tako iako, u svakoj varijanti , Amerika je logican i ispravan izbor .

[Avetinho]

Mnogi još ne uspevaju da se pomire sa činjenicom da Rusija uzvraća US punom merom, čini sve što je prva činila unazad 20 - 30 godina....pa kako to sad, pa kako smeju, pa joj....eh

LOL

Ovo me podsjeca na onaj vic "Nemoj me ti vise braniti". Kako kazes? Uzvraca punom mjerom? Pa covjece, Ukrajina je do jucer bila ruska 100% (valjda joj i ime otud). Aneksijom Krima se Putinko efektivno upucao u nogu: izgubio Ukrajinu zauvijek (osim Krima, a ni za sudbinu Krima nisam bas siguran), jer nijednom normalnom Ukrajincu nikad vise napamet nece pasti da glasa za pro-ruske politicare, doveo NATO na prkticno gotovo cijelu granicu s Rusijom, dao odlican izgovor ponovnom okretanju oruzja prema Rusiji, dao odlican izgovor za bilo kakve buduce vojne akcije NATO, izgubio fokus sa Sirije i Irana, izgubio i ono malo ugleda sto ga je Rusija stekala nakon raspada CCCP-a, itd, zabolise me prsti od tipkanja.

Nemoj bogati vise "uzvracat punom mjerom".

[djonko brajs]

znaci dobra je i pametna politika sankcijama osiromasiti silu sa nekoliko hiljada nuklearnih bojevih glava?

cisto onako da pojacamo sansu da ce neki korumpirani guverner neke sibirske oblasti ili general jednu malu nukleranu bombicu za koji milioncic prodati nekom bradonji iz al kaide.

americka zaludjenost neoliberalnom ideologijom ih zasljepljuje i vodi u propast. ista ona zasljepljenost zbog koje su ocekivali da ce ih u iraku docekati kao oslobodioce i instalatore demokratije. rasirenih ruku. nazalost, povuci ce ostatak svijeta za sobom u propast. a kako vidim, imaju veliki broj navijaca.

jebiga, sve je unistivo osim gluposti.

[agnostic_front]

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441
Kina i Rusija za.

Mislis mozda na glasanje NAKON ove sarade i jedne od najvecih i bezocnijih lazi?

Da te citiram:

Ja uopste ne ulazim u opravdanost intervencije niti mi je to cilj.

[jefferson]

@unscard:
Da ne citiram bezze tvoj copy/paste clanak.
Ja sam vec rekao da su to amerikanci daleko bolje radili od Rusa, ne kontam sta imas copy/paste to. Nema to veze sa propagandom, to danas a i prije 20g si mogao naci u svakoj knjizi Americke vanjske politike na bilo kojem americkom fakultetu. Nije SAD Rusija gdje Putin odobrava koje ce se skolske knjige stampat. Na kraju, Rusi su uspjeli da naprave samo od Kube diktaturu gdje imaju uticaja i to je to (inace Kubanci su im strasno zahvalni, kad se odlucis odjedrit na nekakvoj daski 150km u moru punom ajkula, dovoljno govori o prosperitetu).
I SAD i SSSR u to vrijeme su imali ruke upteljane svugdje, od konferencije u Postdamu do 1991, a bogami rusima nije nista falilo kada je trebalo minirati bilo kakav smislen mirovni sporazum u BiH.
Koliko su zemlje koje su bile pod uticajem SSSR-a zahvalne Rusima, mozes otici do Madjarske, Ceske, Estonije itd, pa priupitaj malo.