Forum Klix.ba

zedo_m wrote:BNemoj bolan tako kako ide ona istocna nas i rusa 300 miliona

madner wrote:SSSR je 1939 (prije aneksija) imala 170 miliona ljudi, sto nisu svi Rusi (ni blizu). S tim da padom zapadnog dijela padaju i najmnogoljudnija mijesta (osim Moskve i Leningrada), dok je Svaba oko 90 miliona i imaju mnogoljudne saveznike.

zedo_m wrote:Nemojte zaboraviti cinjenicu, so se tice rusa, da je to zemlja sa ogromnim ljudskim potencijalom - kvantitetom, nije njima bio belaj da zijane i korpuse za neke bitke a nijemcima je svaki covjek bio bitan. Mala digresija, nisu dijelili Poljsku vac Cesku. Ovdje mi naum padne jedna anegdota, kaze dosli ameri, francuzi, svabe, rusi i td, na neki sajam vojne tehnologije pa amer izvali neka starwars oruzje, tako istoo francuz i svabo, a rus dodje izvali veknu hljeba i kaze, parafraziram, jbs svu tu vasu tehniku kada imate gladnog vojnika, pilota itd. Gladan se nece boriti a mi smo pola Rusije zasadili zitom, a kao sto vidite danas glavni izvoznik zita u Evropi je "majcica" Rusija .
A jos jedna stvarka uvijek se sjetim prvog dijela igrice call of duty i napda na staljingrad osd starne crvene armije jedna od najupecatlojivijih scena iz nke igrice a koja je jako blizu istine.

zedo_m wrote:Isprike za nedovoljno poznavanje historije i cinjenica koja je zemlja podijeljena, so ti je reci da dolazi do pogresne interpretacije sjecanja iz historije ccccc, stidim se

zedo_m wrote:Nemojte zaboraviti cinjenicu, so se tice rusa, da je to zemlja sa ogromnim ljudskim potencijalom - kvantitetom, nije njima bio belaj da zijane i korpuse za neke bitke a nijemcima je svaki covjek bio bitan. Mala digresija, nisu dijelili Poljsku vac Cesku. Ovdje mi naum padne jedna anegdota, kaze dosli ameri, francuzi, svabe, rusi i td, na neki sajam vojne tehnologije pa amer izvali neka starwars oruzje, tako istoo francuz i svabo, a rus dodje izvali veknu hljeba i kaze, parafraziram, jbs svu tu vasu tehniku kada imate gladnog vojnika, pilota itd. Gladan se nece boriti a mi smo pola Rusije zasadili zitom, a kao sto vidite danas glavni izvoznik zita u Evropi je "majcica" Rusija .
A jos jedna stvarka uvijek se sjetim prvog dijela igrice call of duty i napda na staljingrad osd starne crvene armije jedna od najupecatlojivijih scena iz nke igrice a koja je jako blizu istine.

cove41 wrote:Pored svih nabrojanih razloga za nenapadanje Švicarske, koju i onako 80 % čine Nijemci i Talijani, Švicarska je faktično bila saveznik trećeg rajha. Naravno, ne formalno. Najvažnija uloga je bila u deponovanju imovine Jevreja. Znao je Hitler, da he nemoguće da popljačka svu njihvou imovinu, pa ih je pod pretpostavkom neutralnosti i sigurnosti Švicarskih banaka, pustio da sami sve predaju. Činjenica koja govori u korist toga, jeste da i danas nasljednici Jevreja koji su deponovali svoje vrijednosti u Švicarske banke, ne mogu doći do svog nasljedstva. Tako da je nevjerovatno ingeniozan potez bio, ostaviti Švicarsku netaknutom.

Accusations against Switzerland concerning it's role in World War II
•Train transports:
Transports of goods through Switzerland as such were based on normal pre- and post-war relations. Germany and Italy were heavily engaged in the construction of the Gotthard railway line in the 19th century and passage was based on the German-Italian-Swiss treaty of 1909, which regulated traffic until the end of the war. Transport of soldiers and weapons were officially forbidden. The Nazis used the Brenner pass in Austria for the majority of military transports to Italy. A BBC television report of 1997 presented an eye-witness saying she had seen a train carrying Jews to extermination camps at Zurich station in November 1943.
The Train. Were Jews transported through Switzerland to Nazi death camps?
(Documentation and open questions by PBS Public Broadcasting Service, USA)

The Bergier Commission found no evidence for such transports. Of 43 trains that could be tracked down, 39 went via Austria (Brenner, Tarvisio), one via France (Ventimiglia - Nice) «and there is nothing to suggest that the other three passed through Switzerland. It is highly unlikely that such an unusual type of transport would have gone unnoticed by the railway workers and customs officials, the military and the station police. Moreover, such a train would certainly have avoided Zurich central station. ... On the other hand, it is possible that the train could have been carrying people back from the concentration camps; these return transports started in 1944» (and some repatriation trains went through Switzerland officially, organized by the Red Cross). (Independent Commission of Experts Switzerland - World War II, final report, p. 226)


•Refugee Politics
During the Second World War, millions of people were deported by the Nazis from Germany and from the occupied territories in Europe to concentration camps in eastern Europe and murdered there (Holocaust).
Swiss diplomates were involved in the creation of the «J»-stamp to mark the passports of German Jews, a discriminating measure that made escaping more difficult.
Switzerland did accomodate some 55,000 civilian refugees, but approximately 20'000 - 25'000 refugees were rejected at the border, which meant sure death for most of them. The Swiss authorities even refused normal diplomatic protection for Swiss citizens of Jewish faith in Germany and occupied countries.
Switzerland's Refugee Politics during World War II

•Looted Assets:
The Nazi regime in Germany forced many of their victims to sign orders for the transfer of their accounts and other assets with Swiss banks and insurance companies to German banks, where they would be confiscated. Swiss banks did not doubt these orders. This way they made it unnecessarily easy for the Nazis to loote their victims' assets.

•Gold Transactions:
During World War II the Swiss National Bank (SNB) bought gold worth 1,212,600 million Swiss Francs from the German Reichsbank, which was far more than the gold reserves of the Reichsbank had amounted to before the war. Buying and selling gold was quite a normal thing for a national bank at this time because gold was the very base of the international currency system. In the same period, SNB also bought even more gold (worth 2,243,900 Swiss Francs) from the USA. The problem was, that much of the gold sold by the German Reichbank was either stolen from national banks in occupied countries, especially Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, and other gold was stolen from people the Nazis had murdered.
Switzerland's Federal Government granted generous credits to Germany and Italy under the terms of the clearing agreements and offered them financial privileges.
Swiss art-dealers were involved in disreputable trade with stolen objects of art.

In WWII, most of the 166 U.S. aircraft that landed in Switzerland did so out of necessity. It was either that or risk a crash landing in occupied France, or worse, running out of fuel long before reaching English shores. Only about five to ten percent of the crews landed there deliberately to escape the rest of the war. A large number of Americans escaped from the Swiss interment camps and made their way back to England. Of the 1,740 internees and evadees, 947 tried to escape. Of these, 184 attempts failed and the airmen were sent to brutal prison camps that were worse than the Stalag Luft camps in Germany.

The first airmen to arrive in Switzerland did not land there. They had been shot down over France or Germany and managed to make their way across the Swiss border. These men were considered "evadees" rather than internees. According to Swiss laws klix back to medieval times, they were entitled to sanctuary and some were free to leave like tourists. They were kept in separate camps from the internees who landed or parachuted into Switzerland.

A popular saying at that time was, "The Swiss are working for the Germans six days a week and praying for the Allies on the seventh!" However, the alliance between Switzerland and Germany was mostly an economic one. Looking at it from another perspective, if the Swiss had not cooperated with Germany, they would most likely have been annexed and occupied by German forces. Probably 95% of the Swiss people were openly pro-Allies.

The first foreign aircraft to land in Switzerland was a Luftwaffe Dornier Do-17Z-3 on 21 April 1940. The crew mistook Basel-Biresfelden airfield for a German field and landed. They were interned by the Swiss, but were later released due to pressure from the German government.

Until the summer of 1942, all landings or crashes of foreign aircraft on Swiss soil were made by Axis planes. A number of Me-110s and He-llls were shot down by Swiss fighters and a number of Luftwaffe training aircraft landed in error. Some of the German crews were allowed to return to Germany.

The first landing of an Allied aircraft was made by a British Mosquito in August of 1942. The pilot and copilot were returning from a recon mission to Venice when an engine overheated and they were forced to land at the Berne-Belp airfield. The two-man crew tried to destroy the plane, but they failed in the attempt. The aircraft was repaired by the Swiss and later saw service in the Swiss Air Force. Both pilot and copilot were returned to England and paired with two German pilots sent back to Germany.

The first U.S. aircraft to land on Swiss soil was a B-24D named "Death Dealer." It was from the 93rd Bomb Group and had taken part in a raid on the Messerschmitt factory at Wiener-Neustadt. The plane was set on fire and destroyed by the crew. In an almost unbelievable coincidence, the first B-24 to land in Sweden was also from the 93rd Bomb Group and it too was named "Death Dealer."

The first B-17 to put down in Switzerland was from the 100th Bomb Group. They crash landed with #3 feathered, #2 shot up with the prop windmilling and the landing gear up. They had just left Schweinfurt on 17 August 1943. The second B-17 to land was from the 390th Bomb Group and had also been on the Schweinfurt mission. They bellied in near Berne on the 17th with two engines shot out. The last arrival landed on 20 April 1945. It was a B-17G from the 15th Air Force.

Of the 166 U.S. aircraft that landed, 74 were B-17s and 82 were B-24s. The rest were fighters and recon aircraft. A record of 16 U.S. aircraft landed in one day on 18 March 1944. Twelve were B-24s and four were B-17s. Six of the twelve B-24s were from the 44th Bomb Group alone. Some landings were highly questionable, such as when a B-24D from the 93rd Bomb Group, a veteran of the famous Ploesti raid, landed at Dubendorf on 16 March 1944. The Swiss noted, "The aircraft was virtually undamaged and contained enough fuel to get them back to England."

From August to October of 1945, 30 B-17s and 41 B-24s were flown back to Burtonwood in the U.K. The rest were scrapped in Switzerland. Ironically, those that were flown to England arrived too late to be flown back to the U.S. and so were scrapped at Burtonwood. Other items, such as aircraft equipment, bombs, flight clothing, etc. were hauled out of Switzerland by trucks to Munich-Erding, Germany where they were destroyed or burned.

sinuhe wrote:SSSR su napali onda kada je to i jedino moguce u po ljeta jer je to jednako neprohodan teren u proljece(tamo proljece stize kasnije) i u jesen. Regularno su opet stigli i do Moskve i do Lenjingrada kojeg nisu osvojili samo zato sto nisu mogli nagovoriti Fince da napadnu grad sa sjevera.

junkers wrote:

sinuhe wrote:SSSR su napali onda kada je to i jedino moguce u po ljeta jer je to jednako neprohodan teren u proljece(tamo proljece stize kasnije) i u jesen. Regularno su opet stigli i do Moskve i do Lenjingrada kojeg nisu osvojili samo zato sto nisu mogli nagovoriti Fince da napadnu grad sa sjevera.

tačno tako, ubleha je da je barbarosa kasnila radi napada na jugoslaviju,aprilski napad im nije bio nikakav problem,čak su uspjeli spasit talijane u grčkoj(albaniji) i izbacit britance sa krita.rusko blato (neprohodni putevi u jesen i proljeće) ih je natjeralo da počnu napad u junu.a finci su stali na granici,samo vratili izgubljene teritorije u zimskom ratu.