Halilovic oslobodjen!!!

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MBA
Posts: 296
Joined: 18/03/2005 01:53

#76

Post by MBA »

Fair Life wrote:
MBA wrote:Oni koji su predstavljali vlast u Sarajevu, a nisu poduzeli nista da "srede" Celu i Cacu do momenta kad su isti poceli da im se otimaju iz kontrole, su krivi i--bilo bi logicno--ce da odgovaraju. Na koncu, ko je poveo vojsku iz Sarajeva u Hercegovinu? Logicno, taj isti je i odgovoran. Po principu zapovjedne odgovornosti, ako je Delic znao za zlocine, a nista nije poduzeo, onda ce o biti osudjen; osim, ako ocinkari nekog veceg, kao sto je to Sefer ucinio.
Ocinkariti ??

Ja bih to nazvao... govoriti istinu.

Moze i tako!
MBA
Posts: 296
Joined: 18/03/2005 01:53

#77

Post by MBA »

ahmed_dv wrote:Zivjela BiH!

Zivi i ti meni!
da pamtis
Posts: 1514
Joined: 16/07/2005 14:10

#78

Post by da pamtis »

sta kaze BBCSrbian :x

Haški sud za ratne zločine u bivšoj Jugoslaviji oslobodio je optužbi bivšeg načelnika generalštaba pretežno Bošnjačke Armije BiH.
Halilović je bio optužen zbog uloge koju je navodno imao u ubistvu civila, Hrvata iz BiH tokom 1993-će.

Predsednik suda je rekao da tužilaštvo nije pružilo nesumnjive dokaze o Halilovićevoj odgovornosti za ubistva za koja ga je teretila optužnica.

Sefer Halilović je bio najviši predstavnik Armije BiH optužen pred haškim sudom za ratne zločine.

Odmah oslobođen

Sudsko veće naložilo je da Halilović odmah bude pušten na slobodu jer nema dokaza da je bio komandant operacije Neretva 1993. godine u centralnoj Bosni kada je ubijeno više od 60 hrvatskih civila.

Operacija je preduzeta u cilju preuzimanje Mostara koji je tada bio pod kontrolom bosanskih Hrvata.

BBCijeva Džeraldin Kohlan javila je iz Haga da je sudsko veće objasnilo da ne poriče da se zločin dogodio, ali da nema dokaza da su vojnici koji su ga izvršili bili pod Halilovićevom komandnom odgovornošću.

Ona ističe da je u celom slučaju zanimljivo to što su haške sudije izbacile neka od imena žrtava sa spiska ubijenih hrvatskih civila navedenih u optužnici.

Takodje, pojedine izjave svedoka koji su tvrdili da je Halilović bio na odredjenim mestima u odredjeno vreme, sud je proglasio nepouzdanim i nedoslednim, javila je Džeraldin Kohlan.

Najviši optuženi zvaničnik Federacije BiH

Halilović je šesti haški optuženik kojeg je Sudsko veće tribunala oslobodilo optužbi.

Halilović je bio najviši zvaničnik bosanskih muslimana kojem se sudilo pred Haškim tribunalom.

Iako on jeste bio prvi načelnik Generalštaba Armije BiH osnovane 1992. godine, britanski istoričar Marko Atila Hoar objašnjava za BBC da je Halilović bio u svadji sa tadašnjim bosanskim predsednikom Alijom Izetbegovićem.

'Sefer Halilović je preuzeo dužnost komandanta, tako da je bio najznačajniji vojni lider u zemlji te godine i početkom rata. Potom je došao u sukob sa Izetbegovićem i drugim elementima u vojsci koji su bili direktno podredjeni Izetbegoviću. Halilovićev odlazak sa položaja u leto 1993. godine predstavljao je momenat u kojem je Izetbegović preuzeo ličnu kontrolu nad vojskom'.

Da li je mogao da spreči zločin?

Novi načelnik Generalštaba Armije BiH postao je Rasim Delić kojem se sudi u Haškom tribunalu na osnovu odvojene optužnice.

Pod njegovom komandom Halilović je bio šef kadrovske službe.

Tužilaštvo Haškog suda tvrdilo da je u septembru 1993. godine kada su se dogodili zločini u selima Grabovica i Uzdol, Halilović bio odgovoran za vojne aktivnosti u toj oblasti i teretilo ga je po komandnoj odgovornosti.

Halilovićeva odbrana tvrdila je suprotno.

'Smatram da je to prilično ubedljiva odbrana. Posle njegove smene sredinom 1993. godine, on je više figurativno imao funkciju šefa kadrovske službe i nije imao potpunu kontrolu nad vojskom. Izetbegović je upravljao armijom kroz paralelne strukture, mimo zvaničnih, kao i kroz lične kontakte. Moguće je da Halilović nije bio u mogućnosti da kazni počinioce zločina nad hrvatskim civilima u centralnoj Bosni, čak i da je hteo', ocenio je britanski istoričar Mark Atila Hoar povodom oslabadjajuće presude Seferu Haliloviću. http://www.bbc.co.uk/serbian/news/2005/ ... tted.shtml
tako kaze BBC "SerBijan"
vryzas
Posts: 11511
Joined: 12/11/2004 22:44
Location: Athens

#79 Re: evo kome se cita i ko zna engleski

Post by vryzas »

photo wrote:(Exclusively for the use of the media. Not an official document)

The Hague, 16 November 2005
JP/MO/1021e

* TRIAL CHAMBER ACQUITS SEFER HALILOVIC
* HALILOVIC TO BE RELEASED IMMEDIATELY

Please find below the summary of the Judgement delivered by Trial Chamber I, Section A, composed of Judge Liu (Presiding), Judge El Mahdi, and Judge Mumba, as read out by the Presiding Judge.

Summary in the case Prosecutor v. Sefer Halilovic
Trial Chamber I, Section A is sitting today to render the Judgement in the case of the Prosecutor v. Sefer Halilovic.

For the purposes of this hearing, the Trial Chamber will summarise briefly its findings, emphasising that this is a summary only, and that the only authoritative account of the Trial Chamber’s findings, and of its reasons for those findings, is to be found in the written judgement, copies of which will be made available to the parties and to the public at the conclusion of this hearing. Procedural History

The trial against the Accused, Sefer Halilovic, started on the 31st of January 2005 and closed on the 31st of August 2005. During that time the Trial Chamber heard the evidence of 41 live witnesses and admitted the testimony of another 14 witnesses pursuant to Rule 92bis. The Trial Chamber admitted approximately 500 exhibits during trial.

The Alleged Case
The indictment against Sefer Halilovic concerns murders alleged to have been committed by troops belonging to the Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (“ABiH”) in the villages of Grabovica and Uzdol in the Jablanica and Prozor areas in Herzegovina in September 1993 during a military operation allegedly called “Operation Neretva”. The Prosecution alleges that Sefer Halilovic was the commander of this operation and as such the troops involved in the "Operation Neretva" were under his command and control.

The Prosecution alleges that "the Operation" was commanded and co-ordinated from a Forward Command Post or "IKM" in Jablanica. One axis of attack, which was in the area where Grabovica is situated, was commanded by Zulfikar Ališpago and involved parts of units from the ABiH 1st Corps. These units came from the 9th Motorised Brigade, the 10th Mountain Brigade and the 2nd Independent Battalion. Another axis of attack, which was in the area where Uzdol is situated, involved the Prozor Independent Battalion and was commanded by Enver Buza.

It is alleged that Sefer Halilovic, knowing of the 9th and the 10th Brigades’ "notorious reputations for being criminal and uncontrolled in behaviour", ordered the deployment of parts of units of these brigades to Herzegovina. It is further alleged that between the 7th and 8th of September 1993 the unit of the 9th Brigade and a part of the unit of the 10th Brigade as well as the 2nd Independent Battalion were billeted in the village of Grabovica.

The indictment alleges that between the 8th and 9th of September 1993 thirty-three Bosnian Croat civilians were killed in Grabovica. The indictment further alleges that Sefer Halilovic had knowledge of the criminal reputation of the 9th and 10th Brigades and had been present on 8 September when Vehbija Karic, a member of the Inspection Team, told the troops that they should try those Bosnian Croat civilians summarily and throw them into the Neretva River if the villagers did not allow the soldiers to be billeted in their houses. In light of this, the indictment alleges that Sefer Halilovic once notified during the night of the 8th of September about the killing of civilians, was duty bound to act urgently to prevent the commission of any further crimes.

According to the Prosecution, Sefer Halilovic was ordered on the 12th of September by Rasim Delic “to reconsider the scope of the "Neretva-93" Operation, to isolate the perpetrators of the crimes in Grabovica, and to take active measures and to immediately report on the measures he had taken.” It is alleged that Sefer Halilovic failed to implement the order of Rasim Delic resulting in a failure to punish the perpetrators of the crime.

The indictment also alleges that on the 14th of September 1993 in the course of the Operation, the Prozor Independent Battalion attacked the village of Uzdol and killed twenty-nine Bosnian Croat civilians and one HVO prisoner of war.

The Prosecution alleges that Sefer Halilovic, by virtue of his position and authority as Commander of “Operation Neretva”, had effective control over the units subordinated to him, including the 9th Brigade, the 10th Brigade, the 2nd Independent Battalion and the Prozor Independent Battalion.

In view of these alleged facts, Sefer Halilovic is charged with murder, punishable under Article 3 of the Statute as recognised by Article 3 (1) (a) of the Geneva Conventions. The indictment alleges that Sefer Halilovic incurs criminal responsibility under Article 7(3) of the Statute since, notwithstanding his duties as a commander, Sefer Halilovic did not take effective measures to prevent the killings of civilians in Grabovica and did not take steps to carry out a proper investigation to identify the perpetrators of the killings in both Grabovica and Uzdol and as commander of the Operation to punish them accordingly.

The Accused
On the 25th of May 1992, Sefer Halilovic was appointed by the Presidency of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina as Commander of the Territorial Defence (TO). After July 1992, he was “Chief of the General Staff” of the ABiH until 18 August 1992 when the RBiH Presidency formed five corps of the ABiH with Sefer Halilovic as “Chief of the Main Staff” of the ABiH. Sefer Halilovic served as the supreme ABiH commander until 8 June 1993 when the President of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina issued a decision restructuring the ABiH supreme command headquarters and creating a new position of “Commander of the Main Staff”, which was filled by Rasim Delic, while Sefer Halilovic retained the position of “Chief of the Main Staff” of the ABiH. On 18 July 1993, Alija Izetbegovic issued a further decision making the “Chief of the Main Staff” a Deputy Commander, thus increasing the number of Deputy Commanders to three. According to the decision, the Deputy Commanders would assume the duties of the "Chief of the Main Staff" on rotational basis.

Facts in relation to Grabovica
The Trial Chamber finds that in order to conduct combat operations in Herzegovina to lift the HVO blockade of Mostar at the time relevant to the indictment, units of the 9th Brigade, the 10th Brigade and the 2nd Independent Battalion, all subordinated to the ABiH 1st Corps, were sent from Sarajevo to the Jablanica sector. This was the area where Grabovica was situated and it was at the time the area of responsibility of the 6th Corps. The Trial Chamber finds that those units were deployed to Herzegovina following an order issued by Sefer Halilovic.

Grabovica was a village inhabited by Bosnian Croats. The Trial Chamber notes that Grabovica had been under ABiH control since May 1993 and the relationship between the residents of Grabovica and the ABiH soldiers who were stationed there was good and, as there was no other accommodation available for the arriving troops, they were supposed to be billeted with the inhabitants of the village.

The Trial Chamber has been provided with evidence concerning the nature of the 9th and 10th Brigades, referred to in the indictment as having "notorious reputations for being criminal and uncontrolled". The evidence shows that members of both brigades not only demonstrated a lack of discipline, but also took civilians to dig trenches at the front line and committed thefts or other forms of misappropriation. However, the Trial Chamber finds that this misconduct was not comparable to the crimes committed in Grabovica. The Trial Chamber notes in this respect the testimony of the 1st Corps Commander Vahid Karavelic who, while knowing of breaches of discipline and previous behaviour of members of these brigades, said that it never occurred to him that they might commit atrocities against civilians in Grabovica.

The Trial has also been provided with evidence as to problems encountered by the troops when trying to accommodate themselves with the inhabitants of Grabovica. The Trial Chamber has found the evidence inconsistent as to the circumstances of the alleged statement of Vehbija Karic, in particular when and where it took place and whether Sefer Halilovic was present, and moreover does not find the witnesses reliable in this respect. The Trial Chamber has therefore found that it has not been proven that Vehbija Karic made the alleged comments or that Sefer Halilovic was present at the time.

The Trial Chamber has been presented with evidence that with the arrival of the unit of the 9th Brigade the atmosphere in the village of Grabovica changed and acts of violence started occurring. Throughout the night of the 8th of September shooting was heard in the village. One witness testified that she heard women wailing and crying and that she was "just quiet sitting on the floor and awaiting her fate". The Trial Chamber has established that by the early afternoon of the 9th of September a number of inhabitants had been murdered by members of the ABiH units present in Grabovica at the time. The Trial Chamber takes particular note of the callous way in which a member of the 9th Brigade shot Pero Maric while sitting at a table, facing his victim. The Trial Chamber further notes the brutal way with which Ljubica Zadro and Mladenka Zadro were killed. Ljubica Zadro was carrying her four year old daughter Mladenka, when both were shot at short distance by members of the 9th Brigade.

Facts in relation to Uzdol
In 1993 Uzdol was a Bosnian Croat village, comprised of several hamlets and with a total population of about one hundred inhabitants. In September 1993 the HVO had several positions in and around Uzdol. The Trial Chamber finds that in the early morning hours of the 14th of September, the Prozor Independent Battalion together with some members of the civilian police force of the Ministry of Interior attacked the headquarters of the HVO located in the school building of one of the hamlets of Uzdol. Shortly after the attack began, the HVO started shelling Uzdol. The Trial Chamber has found that during the attack a number of inhabitants were killed by troops under ABiH command.

The Trial Chamber notes that some of the killings committed in Uzdol were particularly cruel in nature. The Trial Chamber notes in this respect the killing of Anica Stojanovic who was half-seated on the ground next to her house when a soldier, who was standing three metres away from her, killed her by a shot to the head. The testimony showed that she cried out the name of her son before she was shot. The Trial Chamber also notes the direct evidence concerning the manner of the killings of Ruza Zelic and her two children, who were 13 and 10 years old at the time of their deaths. The three had tried to flee from the soldiers, but the soldiers caught up with them. Ruza Zelic begged the soldiers not to kill them, but the three of them were shot.

Findings on the crimes charged
As to the crimes committed in Grabovica, the Trial Chambers has found that the fact that the ABiH soldiers were billeted in Grabovica in preparation for combat operations in Herzegovina, played a substantial part in the soldiers’ ability to commit the crimes. As for the crimes in Uzdol, the Trial Chamber has found that the crimes were committed during an attack on Uzdol, which was part of military combat operations. The Trial Chamber has therefore found that there was a nexus between the crimes committed in Grabovica and Uzdol and the armed conflict in the area.

With regards to the crimes committed in Grabovica, the Trial Chamber has found that it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that 13 inhabitants, taking no active part in the hostilities, were murdered by members of the 9th Brigade and unidentified members of the ABiH on the 8th or the 9th of September 1993 (Pero Maric, Dragica Maric, Ivan Zadro, Matija Zadro, Mladen Zadro, Ljubica Zadro and Mladenka Zadro, Josip Brekalo, Martin Maric, Živko Dreznjak, Ljuba Dreznjak, Ivan Mandic and Ilka Miletic).

The Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that 14 persons listed in the indictment were killed by members of the ABiH in Grabovica at the time relevant to the indictment.

The Trial Chamber notes that during trial, six of the alleged victims listed in the indictment were withdrawn.

With regards to the crimes committed in Uzdol, the Trial Chamber has found that 25 inhabitants were killed by members of units under ABiH command in Uzdol on the 14th of September 1993, and were persons taking no active part in the hostilities (Ruza Zelic, Marija Zelic, Stjepan Zelic, Anica Stojanovic, Ivan Zelenika, Jadranka Zelenika, Ruza Zelenika, Luca Zelenika, Janja Zelenika, Dragica Zelenika, Kata Perkovic, Martin Ratkic, Kata Ratkic, Anto Stojanovic, Franjo Stojanovic, Serafina Stojanovic, Stanko Rajic, Lucija Rajic, Šima Rajic, Mara Rajic, Ivka Rajic (born in 1921), Mijo Rajic, Ivka Rajic (born in 1934), Zorka Glibo, and Mato Ljubic).

The Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that two persons listed in the indictment were taking no active part in the hostilities at the time of their deaths on the 14th of September 1993. Moreover, the Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that two other persons listed in the indictment were killed by members of units under ABiH command, who attacked Uzdol on the 14th of September 1993.

The Trial Chamber notes that at the end of the trial, one of the alleged victims listed in the indictment was withdrawn.

The Defence has submitted that the cause of death of the victims in Uzdol was either shelling by the HVO or that they were caught in the crossfire between the ABiH and the HVO during the ABiH attack on Uzdol on the 14th of September 1993. The Trial Chamber has found that the HVO shelled the hamlets comprising Uzdol intensively; however, the autopsy report of the victims does not contain any evidence that the victims were killed, or even injured, by shrapnel from falling shells. Therefore, the Trial Chamber has found that the evidence does not support the Defence submission in this respect.

In relation to the Defence submission that the victims were caught in crossfire, the Trial Chamber notes that the evidence shows that there was heavy fighting between the units under ABiH command and the HVO in the Uzdol area during the attack. The evidence also shows that the inhabitants of the area tried to save themselves by leaving their homes and running for their lives. Contrary to the Defence submission, the Trial Chamber has found that the victims were killed intentionally and notes, in particular, that several victims were shot at close range; that two victims were killed in their beds, one of whom was bedridden; that one victim had been mutilated prior to being killed; that one victim was killed by being brutally beaten to death over the head after having been first shot in the chest and leg; that another victim was killed by being beaten over the head with an implement with both sharp and blunt edges, and finally the Trial Chamber notes that even children were killed.

Findings in Relation to the Individual Criminal Responsibility of the Accused
Having found that murders were committed both in Grabovica and Uzdol, the Trial Chamber recalls that the purpose of a trial is not solely to determine whether serious violations of international humanitarian law were committed, but ultimately is to determine whether the Accused bears individual criminal responsibility for those crimes.

The Trial Chamber has assessed the individual criminal responsibility of Sefer Halilovic based on all the evidence presented to it during the trial.

As a preliminary matter, the Trial Chamber notes that it is not convinced that the combat operations carried out in Herzegovina at the time relevant to the indictment were called "Operation Neretva". Except for a map, no other exhibit presented to the Trial Chamber refers to the combat operations as "Operation Neretva". Moreover, the Trial Chamber notes that several of the witnesses involved with the ABiH at the time, including two Corps Commander, did not hear the use of this name during the combat operations. However, for the purposes of this judgement the Trial Chamber used the term "Operation Neretva" to refer to the combat operations which took place in Herzegovina at the time relevant to the indictment.

The Trial Chamber has found that the participants of a meeting held in Zenica on the 21st and 22nd August 1993 and chaired by the Commander of the Main Staff, Rasim Delic, did not discuss “Operation Neretva”. It was a briefing by the Corps Commanders on their areas of responsibility at which they expressed their concerns on the direction the conflict had taken and the future direction of the conflict. The Trial Chamber has further found that neither Sefer Halilovic nor anyone else was appointed commander of an “Operation Neretva” or any other operation at this meeting. Furthermore, the Trial Chamber has found that subsequent to the Zenica meeting, Sefer Halilovic among others carried out tasks of reorganisation and re-subordination of units, and that was done pursuant to an order issued by Rasim Delic on the 1st of September.

The Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution failed to establish that Sefer Halilovic was appointed as commander of “Operation Neretva” by virtue of an order issued by Rasim Delic on 30 August, as alleged in the indictment. Rather, by this order Rasim Delic appointed Sefer Halilovic as Team Leader of an Inspection Team not entrusted with command authority, but with co-ordinating and monitoring functions in the areas of responsibility of the 4th and the 6th Corps, which were the Corps that carried out military operations in the areas mentioned above, where Grabovica and Uzdol were situated. Furthermore, the Trial Chamber has found that the role of Sefer Halilovic, in the implementation of orders issued by Rasim Delic concerning the reorganisation and re-subordination was consistent with his role as Team Leader of an Inspection Team charged with monitoring and co-ordinating functions.

The Trial Chamber has also found that the evidence presented by the Prosecution is insufficient to support a finding that the location where the Inspection Team was accommodated in Jablanica was an IKM from which an "operation" in Herzegovina was commanded, as alleged in the indictment. The Trial Chamber notes that the term IKM was used as "jargon" to denote the location of senior officers.

The Trial Chamber considers the evidence presented to it as to Sefer Halilovic’s alleged position as commander of “Operation Neretva” to be inconsistent. The Trial Chamber notes in particular that some of the lower-ranking soldiers who testified before the Trial Chamber considered Sefer Halilovic to be commander of “Operation Neretva”. However, the Trial Chamber has found that testimony of some lower-ranking soldiers to that effect is only indicative of the respect which Sefer Halilovic enjoyed as a senior officer and one of the founders of the ABiH. The Trial Chamber cannot find that this evidence per se is sufficient to support the Prosecution’s allegation that Sefer Halilovic was commander of “Operation Neretva”.

The evidence provided by higher-ranking ABiH officers is more consistent in showing that Sefer Halilovic was not a commander of "Operation Neretva", but rather was tasked with co-ordinating combat activities.

The Trial Chamber also notes that at a meeting on the 4th of September in Donja Jablanica, Rasim Delic signed and approved the documents for the “Operation”. Rasim Delic’s signature can be seen on a map entitled “Operation Neretva”. The Prosecution alleges that the signatures on this map, Rasim Delic’s on the top-left and Sefer Halilovic’s on the bottom-right, indicates that “Halilovic was the commander responsible for the Operation". The Trial Chamber has found, however, that contrary to the Prosecution allegation, the signatures on this map are inconclusive as to who was commander of the "Operation".

Having examined the evidence presented as to the role of Sefer Halilovic in the field in Herzegovina in September 1993, the Trial Chamber has found that Sefer Halilovic carried out tasks consistent with his role as Team Leader of an Inspection Team tasked with reviewing combat readiness and co-ordinating combat operations, as set out in the order issued by Rasim Delic on 30 August 1993. The Trial Chamber notes that the authority of Sefer Halilovic to issue orders was limited in two ways by the 30 August order: first in that for any “drastic proposals” Sefer Halilovic had to consult with Rasim Delic, and secondly, by this order Sefer Halilovic only had the power to issue orders “in keeping with his authority”. The Trial Chamber notes, in this regard, that the position of Sefer Halilovic within the structure of the Main Staff was circumscribed as a result of the orders of 8 June and 18 July issued by Alija Izetbegovic. The Trial Chamber also notes that the evidence does not contain a prior order from Sefer Halilovic ordering the start of combat operations on the axes of attack. Furthermore, an analysis of the evidence concerning orders issued by Sefer Halilovic and information sent to him from the field indicates that the orders issued by Sefer Halilovic were issued under the overall authority of Rasim Delic as Commander of the ABiH, and that orders by Sefer Halilovic were, in general, implementing the instructions of Rasim Delic.

The Trial Chamber notes that the evidence only contains one order concerning combat operations issued by Sefer Halilovic after the establishment of the Inspection Team, namely that of 15th of September 1993. The Trial Chamber has found that this evidence is in itself insufficient to support a finding that Sefer Halilovic was in command of combat operations in Herzegovina. Moreover, the Trial Chamber is of the opinion that this order can be seen as part of the Inspection Team’s coordination function.

In conclusion, the Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Sefer Halilovic was either de jure or de facto commander of the alleged operation called "Operation Neretva".

Moreover the Trial Chamber has found the following:

Concerning Grabovica, the Trial Chamber notes that the combat order for the start of combat operations in the axis in that area was issued by Zulfikar Ališpago, as commander of the axis. The Trial Chamber notes in particular that the unit of the 9th Brigade was under the command of Zulfikar Ališpago at the time the crimes were committed. The Trial Chamber has found that the evidence presented is insufficient to establish that Zulfikar Ališpago was subordinated to Sefer Halilovic.

The Trial Chamber has further found that Sefer Halilovic knew of the crimes committed in Grabovica in the evening of the 9th of September, when the last proven crime had already been committed. The Trial Chamber notes that, in relation to the investigation of the crimes in Grabovica, Sefer Halilovic, in the evening of the 9th of September, instructed Namik Dzankovic, a member of the Inspection Team and of the ABiH Main Staff Security Service, to work together with the MUP, as well as with other members of the SVB, in order to investigate the crimes and to keep "Sarajevo", rather than himself, informed. The evidence shows that at this point in time investigations were already under way. The evidence does not show that Sefer Halilovic initiated the investigations or that the investigations were in any way carried forward through his actions. The evidence also shows that the 6th Corps Security Service, the Military Police Battalion of the 6th Corps and the Military Police of the 44th Brigade, which was located in Jablanica, were involved in the investigation into the events in Grabovica. The Chief of Security of the ABiH Main Staff Jusuf Jašarevic was informed of the results of their investigations. The Trial Chamber has found that based on the evidence, it can not be concluded that Sefer Halilovic had the material ability to punish the perpetrators of the crimes committed in Grabovica.

Having examined all the evidence presented to it and in light of its factual findings, the Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that Sefer Halilovic had effective control over the troops in Grabovica on the 8th and 9th of September 1993, who the Trial Chamber has found committed the crimes.

Concerning Uzdol, the Trial Chamber has found that the crimes were committed by members of units under ABiH command taking part in the attack on HVO positions in and around Uzdol. The Trial Chamber has found that these units were the Prozor Independent Battalion and members of the civilian police forces of the MUP, both under the command of the Prozor Independent Battalion Commander, Enver Buza. The Trial Chamber has found that the evidence presented is insufficient to establish that Enver Buza was subordinated to Sefer Halilovic.

Furthermore, the Trial Chamber considered that the evidence presented to it did not show that Sefer Halilovic had any role in the investigations concerning the crimes committed in Uzdol. These investigations were conducted by the Security Services of the 6th Corps and the Prozor Independent Battalion. Once again, the Chief of Security of the Main Staff Jusuf Jašarevic was informed of the results of the investigations. The Trial Chamber has found that based on the evidence presented, it can not be concluded that that Sefer Halilovic had the material ability to punish the perpetrators of the crimes committed in Uzdol.

Having examined all the evidence presented to it and in light of its factual findings, the Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution has not proven beyond reasonable doubt that Sefer Halilovic had effective control over the units under ABiH command, which the Trial Chamber has found committed the crimes in Uzdol.

Finally, the Trial Chamber has found that Sefer Halilovic possessed a degree of influence as a high ranking member of the ABiH and as one of its founders. However, the Trial Chamber considers that Sefer Halilovic’s influence falls short of the standard required to establish effective control. It is a principle of international criminal law that a commander cannot be held responsible for the crimes of persons who were not under his command at the time the crimes were committed. The Trial Chamber has found that the Prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Sefer Halilovic was either de jure or de facto commander of an operation called “Operation Neretva”, which the Prosecution alleges was carried out in Herzegovina. The Trial Chamber has also found that the Prosecution has failed to establish that Sefer Halilovic had effective control over the troops which committed the crimes in the areas of Grabovica and Uzdo at the time the crimes were committed. The Trial Chamber has therefore found that the Prosecution failed to establish that Sefer Halilovic was responsible under Article 7(3) of the Statute for the murders committed in Grabovica and Uzdol.

Disposition
For the foregoing reasons, the Trial Chamber has decided that:

The Accused SEFER HALILOVIĆ is found NOT GUILTY and therefore acquitted of Murder, a Violation of the Laws or Customs of War as charged in the indictment.

Pursuant to Rule 99 of the Rules, the Trial Chamber orders that Sefer Halilovic be released immediately from the United Nations Detention Unit after the necessary practical arrangements are made.
photo ti si moj idol :D :-) 8)

PAOK 8)
joker
Posts: 710
Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00

#80

Post by joker »

Prenj wrote:
joker wrote:
Prenj wrote: Bingo!
Sto nas vodi kljucnom pitanju, ko je sprijecio R. Delica da kazni zlocince!
Ko je uprljao obraz Armije BiH, nas obraz?

Nadam se da nam sudjenje Delicu dati odgovor na ta pitanja!
I ja se nadam da ce sudjenje pokazati da li je Delic znao za zlocine, tj. da li ih je pokusao sprijeciti ili ako to nije bilo moguce da li je pokusao identifikovati i kazniti pocinioce.
Nakon toga mozemo tvrditi ovo ili ono, a do tada samo iznositi svoje licno uvjerenje i misljenje, ali nikako i tvrditi nesto. Osim, ako nismo i sami bili ucesnici nekih dogadjaja.
Je li znao????
Pa maloprije si rekao da je Delic izdao naredbu da se akcija prekine zbog zlocina.
Cijelo je Sarajevo znalo za zlocine, dan poslije nakon sto su se jedinice iz Sarajeva koje su ucestvovale u Neretvi '93, vratile u grad, a da to ne zna R. Delic, komandant te iste vojske.
Ti isto debil-nebi. Uhvatis se jednog i kao dijete. Citaj malo pazljivije. Naravno da je znao nakon sto su se dogodili zlocini. Pitanje je da li je mogao znati da ce se desiti (naslutiti) i da li je mogao to sprijeciti. Napisao sam taj post u kontekstu prethodnih, ali ocito tebi treba crtati sve jer nemas prostora i kapaciteta shatiti sta se zeli reci. Trebao sam dakle napisati "...I ja se nadam da ce sudjenje pokazati da li je Delic mogao znati za zlocine, tj. da li ih je pokusao sprijeciti..."
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Fair Life
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#81

Post by Fair Life »

da pamtis wrote:sta kaze BBCSrbian :x
(...)
Iako on jeste bio prvi načelnik Generalštaba Armije BiH osnovane 1992. godine, britanski istoričar Marko Atila Hoar objašnjava za BBC da je Halilović bio u svadji sa tadašnjim bosanskim predsednikom Alijom Izetbegovićem.

'Sefer Halilović je preuzeo dužnost komandanta, tako da je bio najznačajniji vojni lider u zemlji te godine i početkom rata. Potom je došao u sukob sa Izetbegovićem i drugim elementima u vojsci koji su bili direktno podredjeni Izetbegoviću. Halilovićev odlazak sa položaja u leto 1993. godine predstavljao je momenat u kojem je Izetbegović preuzeo ličnu kontrolu nad vojskom'.
(...)
Ne vidjah ni jednu slicnu sliku sa Seferom...

Image
Last edited by Fair Life on 17/11/2005 08:41, edited 1 time in total.
Prenj
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#82

Post by Prenj »

RFE wrote:
Halilović oslobođen optužbi
Mirna SADIKOVIĆ, Tina JELIN

Pretresno vijeće Haškog tribunala oslobodilo je generala Sefera Halilovića optužbe za zločine u Grabovici i Uzdolu. Porodice žrtava zločina nezadovoljne su sudskom odlukom, koja otvara i pitanje: da li će zbog ovih zločina biti osuđen bivši komandant Armije BiH Rasim Delić?
Pretresno vijeće Haškog tribunala, na čelu sa sucem Liu Dakunom, ocijenilo je da Tužilaštvo tokom suđenja nije dokazalo da je umirovljeni general Sefer Halilović imao stvarnu odgovornost nad jedinicama 9. motorizovane, 10. brdske brigade i Drugog samostalnog bataljona Prvog korpusa Armije BiH, čiji su pripadnici počinili zločin u selima Grabovica i Uzdol:

“Optuženi Sefer Halilović nije kriv i stoga se oslobađa optužbe za ubistvo kao kršenje zakona i običaja ratovanja, kojom se tereti u optužnici.”

Vijeće je ocijenilo da je Halilović djelovao u skladu sa naredbama komandanta Štaba vrhovne komande, Rasima Delića, te da kada se zločin desio nije imao stvarnu mogućnost kazniti počinioce ovog zločina:

“Pretresno vijeće konstatuje da je borbeno naređenje za početak borbenih operacija na liniji u tom području izdao Zulfikar Ališpago, kao komandant te linije. Pretresno vijeće je konstatovalo da su predočeni dokazi nedovoljni da bi se utvrdilo da je Zulfikar Ališpago bio potčinjen Seferu Haliloviću. Pregledavši sve dokaze koji su mu prezentirani, a u svjetlu činjeničnih nalaza, Pretresno vijeće je zaključilo da Tužilaštvo nije dokazalo van razumne sumnje da je Sefer Halilović imao efektivnu kontrolu nad jedinicama pod komandom Armije BiH, za koje je Pretresno vijeće utvrdilo da su počinile zločine u Uzdolu.”

Oslobađajuća presuda za Halilovića mogla bi za Rasima Delića označiti izricanje krivice, upozorava vojni komentator “Oslobođenja” Antonio Prlenda:

“Radosna vijest za obitelj Sefera Halilovića, ali mislim da nije nije toliko dobra za umirovljenog genarala Delića, jer ukoliko general Halilović nije odgovoran, znači da je odgovoran neko na višoj razini. U više razgovora sa generalom Halilovićem u prošlosti, on mi je kazao da je on saznanja o zločinu u pomenutim selima proslijedio na višu razinu. Stoga se može očekivati, ako je sud odlučio da odgovornost ne leži na njemu, da će biti u znatno težem položaju general Delić.”

U HDZ-u su vijest o oslobađajućoj presudi za Halilovića ocijenili iznenađujućom. Ivan Madunić:

“Jer činjenica je da je tamo ubijeno pedesetak, šezdeset civila, gdje se pod zapovjednoj odgovornosti teret stavljao na dotičnog. Izgleda mi da je Haški tribunal stvarno politički sud, da sudi onako kako mu se iz političkih razloga čini oportunim presuditi. Dakle, iznenađen sam i razočaran da se po stoti put uvjeravam da je politika iznad pravde u pravilima Haškoga suda.”

Presudu Haškog tribunala komentirao je i bivši zamjenik ministra odbrane Ferid Buljubašić koji je, pred suđenje, isporučio dokumentaciju o ovom slučaju Haškom tribunalu:

“U toj ukupnoj analizi nigdje, ama baš nigdje nisam mogao naći ni minimum bilo koje odgovornosti gospodina Sefera Halilovića i mislim da je ovom oslobađaujućom presudom u slučaju Sefera Halilovića zaista pravda pobijedila i činjenice koje je sud razmatrao.”

* * * * *
Prenj
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#83

Post by Prenj »

joker wrote: Ti isto debil-nebi. Uhvatis se jednog i kao dijete. Citaj malo pazljivije. Naravno da je znao nakon sto su se dogodili zlocini. Pitanje je da li je mogao znati da ce se desiti (naslutiti) i da li je mogao to sprijeciti. Napisao sam taj post u kontekstu prethodnih, ali ocito tebi treba crtati sve jer nemas prostora i kapaciteta shatiti sta se zeli reci. Trebao sam dakle napisati "...I ja se nadam da ce sudjenje pokazati da li je Delic mogao znati za zlocine, tj. da li ih je pokusao sprijeciti..."
Po tvojim kriterijima i Slobo bi mogao ispasti nevin.
joker
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#84

Post by joker »

Prenj wrote:
savjest wrote:
H. SILAJDŽIĆ: POTVRDA DA U BIH NIJE BIO GRAĐANSKI RAT, NEGO AGRESIJA
Jedan od čelnika Republike BiH izjavio je za Agenciju ONASA da je oslabađajuća presuda Haškog tribunala na suđenju bivšem komandantu Armije BiH dokaz da u BiH nije bio građanski rat, nego planirana agresija i genocid, da postoje agresor i žrtva
Harise, Harise, pa mogao si prvo presudu procitati, kakav crni dokaz :(

Zar je Haris jos uvijek "celnik Republike BiH" :?
I ovdje su novinari greskom izostavili jednu rijec a ti se odmah (umjesto da se drzis sustine) uhvatio forme. Trebalo je pisati: "...Jedan od čelnika tadasnje Republike BiH izjavio je za Agenciju ONASA..."
Ali dobronamjernom i pametnom i ono gore dosta da se shvati sustina.
A sto se tice same izjave, slicno nesto je i sam Sefer izjavio po dolasku u Sarajevo.

Od lidera skoro svih probosanskih stranaka juce je dosla izjava u kojoj nisu krili odusevljenje ovakvom presudom, i koji nisu politikantski kalkulisali sta ce reci, samo se Lagumdzija nije oglasio. Ili ja to nigdje nisam vidio i cuo.
Sve u svemu, ako Seferova presuda postane pravosnazna, a ako Delica osude, puno toga ce se time reci i o onima koji su ih postavili (a Sefera onda sklonili) na mjesto komandanta Armije BiH!

Ne bi li barem nesto zasvijetlilo u tamnom vilajetu i barem nekima pocelo oci otvarati...
Sefera nisu sklonili, samo su ustanovili visu funkciju od njegove i na nju postavili Delica. Sefer je ostao st je i bio-nacelnik.
joker
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#85

Post by joker »

Prenj wrote:
joker wrote: Ti isto debil-nebi. Uhvatis se jednog i kao dijete. Citaj malo pazljivije. Naravno da je znao nakon sto su se dogodili zlocini. Pitanje je da li je mogao znati da ce se desiti (naslutiti) i da li je mogao to sprijeciti. Napisao sam taj post u kontekstu prethodnih, ali ocito tebi treba crtati sve jer nemas prostora i kapaciteta shatiti sta se zeli reci. Trebao sam dakle napisati "...I ja se nadam da ce sudjenje pokazati da li je Delic mogao znati za zlocine, tj. da li ih je pokusao sprijeciti..."
Po tvojim kriterijima i Slobo bi mogao ispasti nevin.
Slobo je sve ovo smislio, dakle nema ni slicnosti.

A po tebi ce svi nasi ispasti k'o Slobo, Karadzic, Mladic, a mi kao narod genocidni i prljavog obraza...
silentbob
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#86

Post by silentbob »

posteno....cestitam Sefere brate... a rasim ga pusiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii...i treba da ga pusi
Prenj
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#87

Post by Prenj »

joker wrote: Slobo je sve ovo smislio, dakle nema ni slicnosti.

A po tebi ce svi nasi ispasti k'o Slobo, Karadzic, Mladic, a mi kao narod genocidni i prljavog obraza...
Klasicni Joker, kad ponestane argumenata uvali bilo sta, mozda se primi.
Moram primijetiti da je napravljen odlican izbor nick-a.
Nego, evo ti ovdje princip komandne odgovornosti definisan od ICTY-a, ako si u nedoumici oko nacina na koji ICTY kaznjava komandante.
ICTY wrote: Article 7(3) of the Statute reads:
The fact that any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 5 of the present Statute was committed by a subordinate does not relieve his superior of criminal responsibility if he knew or had reason to know that the subordinate was about to commit such acts or had done so and the superior failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures to prevent such acts or to punish the perpetrators thereof.
It is clear that the form of responsibility set out in Article 7(3) of the Statute is based upon the duty of superiors to act, which consists of a duty to prevent and a duty to punish criminal acts of their subordinates.86 It is thus the “failure to act when under a duty to do so” which is the essence of this form of responsibility.
As will be seen below, this duty to act arises by virtue of a superior’s possession of effective control over his subordinates.
joker
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#88

Post by joker »

Prenj wrote:
joker wrote: Slobo je sve ovo smislio, dakle nema ni slicnosti.

A po tebi ce svi nasi ispasti k'o Slobo, Karadzic, Mladic, a mi kao narod genocidni i prljavog obraza...
Klasicni Joker, kad ponestane argumenata uvali bilo sta, mozda se primi.
Moram primijetiti da je napravljen odlican izbor nick-a.
Nego, evo ti ovdje princip komandne odgovornosti definisan od ICTY-a, ako si u nedoumici oko nacina na koji ICTY kaznjava komandante.
ICTY wrote: Article 7(3) of the Statute reads:
The fact that any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 5 of the present Statute was committed by a subordinate does not relieve his superior of criminal responsibility if he knew or had reason to know that the subordinate was about to commit such acts or had done so and the superior failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures to prevent such acts or to punish the perpetrators thereof.
It is clear that the form of responsibility set out in Article 7(3) of the Statute is based upon the duty of superiors to act, which consists of a duty to prevent and a duty to punish criminal acts of their subordinates.86 It is thus the “failure to act when under a duty to do so” which is the essence of this form of responsibility.
As will be seen below, this duty to act arises by virtue of a superior’s possession of effective control over his subordinates.
Ti, majke mi, nisi vrijedan polemike.

Ja tebi odgovorim namjerno na isti nacin na koji ti meni u nedostatku argumenata pises i onda TI ustvrdis za mene "...kad ponestane argumenata uvali bilo sta, mozda se primi...". Pa ti si stvarno patetican.

Tako je isto bilo i sa pitanjima koja ti strasno volis postavljati kada te neko razoruza argumentima pa ti koristis pitanja da preusmjeris razgovor u drugom pravcu. Nakon sto mi je dosadilo i na ta pitanja te poklapati argumentima, jer si isao previse u sirinu, skontam odoh ti istom mjerom vratiti i postavih ti pitanje. Ni do dana danas nisi odgovorio.

I sad ovo ovdje. Samo istom mjerom Prenj uzvracam. Je li ti sad jasno kakav dojam ostavljas na sagovornike. To sto si za mene komentarisao, ustvari si rekao samom sebi, jer je to tvoj nacin komunikacije.
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Vodenjak
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#89

Post by Vodenjak »

List wrote:
Vodenjak wrote:Sve u svemu, ako Seferova presuda postane pravosnazna, a ako Delica osude, puno toga ce se time reci i o onima koji su ih postavili (a Sefera onda sklonili) na mjesto komandanta Armije BiH!

Ne bi li barem nesto zasvijetlilo u tamnom vilajetu i barem nekima pocelo oci otvarati...
Vidi ga što mu se osladilo. :D

Varaš se. I Delića mogu osuditi samo za nekažnjavanje a i dalje su jedini krivci izvršioci.
Osladice mi se kad se oci i ljudima poput tebe stvarno pocnu otvarati!
I nista drugo!
A svako neka odgovara i za cinjenje i za necinjenje onako kako i treba!
joker
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#90

Post by joker »

Vodenjak wrote:
List wrote:
Vodenjak wrote:Sve u svemu, ako Seferova presuda postane pravosnazna, a ako Delica osude, puno toga ce se time reci i o onima koji su ih postavili (a Sefera onda sklonili) na mjesto komandanta Armije BiH!

Ne bi li barem nesto zasvijetlilo u tamnom vilajetu i barem nekima pocelo oci otvarati...
Vidi ga što mu se osladilo. :D

Varaš se. I Delića mogu osuditi samo za nekažnjavanje a i dalje su jedini krivci izvršioci.
Osladice mi se kad se oci i ljudima poput tebe stvarno pocnu otvarati!
I nista drugo!
A svako neka odgovara i za cinjenje i za necinjenje onako kako i treba!
Meni se cini da bi neki Delica da osude bez obzira da li je stvarno kriv. Cemu to? Sta ako stvarno nema prostora za komandnu odgovornost i ako su jedini krivci sami izvrsioci i njihovi lokalni komandanti?
Prenj
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#91

Post by Prenj »

joker wrote:
Prenj wrote: Klasicni Joker, kad ponestane argumenata uvali bilo sta, mozda se primi.
Moram primijetiti da je napravljen odlican izbor nick-a.
Nego, evo ti ovdje princip komandne odgovornosti definisan od ICTY-a, ako si u nedoumici oko nacina na koji ICTY kaznjava komandante.
ICTY wrote: Article 7(3) of the Statute reads:
The fact that any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 5 of the present Statute was committed by a subordinate does not relieve his superior of criminal responsibility if he knew or had reason to know that the subordinate was about to commit such acts or had done so and the superior failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures to prevent such acts or to punish the perpetrators thereof.
It is clear that the form of responsibility set out in Article 7(3) of the Statute is based upon the duty of superiors to act, which consists of a duty to prevent and a duty to punish criminal acts of their subordinates.86 It is thus the “failure to act when under a duty to do so” which is the essence of this form of responsibility.
As will be seen below, this duty to act arises by virtue of a superior’s possession of effective control over his subordinates.
Ti, majke mi, nisi vrijedan polemike.

Ja tebi odgovorim namjerno na isti nacin na koji ti meni u nedostatku argumenata pises i onda TI ustvrdis za mene "...kad ponestane argumenata uvali bilo sta, mozda se primi...". Pa ti si stvarno patetican.

Tako je isto bilo i sa pitanjima koja ti strasno volis postavljati kada te neko razoruza argumentima pa ti koristis pitanja da preusmjeris razgovor u drugom pravcu. Nakon sto mi je dosadilo i na ta pitanja te poklapati argumentima, jer si isao previse u sirinu, skontam odoh ti istom mjerom vratiti i postavih ti pitanje. Ni do dana danas nisi odgovorio.

I sad ovo ovdje. Samo istom mjerom Prenj uzvracam. Je li ti sad jasno kakav dojam ostavljas na sagovornike. To sto si za mene komentarisao, ustvari si rekao samom sebi, jer je to tvoj nacin komunikacije.
Ja opet o temi, ti opet o meni.
Necemo tako dalje. Tacka.
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Fair Life
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#92

Post by Fair Life »

joker wrote:Meni se cini da bi neki Delica da osude bez obzira da li je stvarno kriv. Cemu to? Sta ako stvarno nema prostora za komandnu odgovornost i ako su jedini krivci sami izvrsioci i njihovi lokalni komandanti?
Jebiga joker... da sredimo peticiju Tribunalu da nam ne zajebavaju Rasima, ali i da oslobode one koji su optuzeni za zlocine po pitanju komandne odgovornosti na strani agresora.

Jel' valja ova?
Prenj
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#93

Post by Prenj »

Zbog ovoga zelim da ...
http://www.un.org/icty/pressreal/2005/p1021-e.htm

Facts in relation to Grabovica
...

The Trial Chamber has been presented with evidence that with the arrival of the unit of the 9th Brigade the atmosphere in the village of Grabovica changed and acts of violence started occurring. Throughout the night of the 8th of September shooting was heard in the village. One witness testified that she heard women wailing and crying and that she was "just quiet sitting on the floor and awaiting her fate". The Trial Chamber has established that by the early afternoon of the 9th of September a number of inhabitants had been murdered by members of the ABiH units present in Grabovica at the time. The Trial Chamber takes particular note of the callous way in which a member of the 9th Brigade shot Pero Maric while sitting at a table, facing his victim. The Trial Chamber further notes the brutal way with which Ljubica Zadro and Mladenka Zadro were killed. Ljubica Zadro was carrying her four year old daughter Mladenka, when both were shot at short distance by members of the 9th Brigade.

Facts in relation to Uzdol

The Trial Chamber notes that some of the killings committed in Uzdol were particularly cruel in nature. The Trial Chamber notes in this respect the killing of Anica Stojanovic who was half-seated on the ground next to her house when a soldier, who was standing three metres away from her, killed her by a shot to the head. The testimony showed that she cried out the name of her son before she was shot. The Trial Chamber also notes the direct evidence concerning the manner of the killings of Ruza Zelic and her two children, who were 13 and 10 years old at the time of their deaths. The three had tried to flee from the soldiers, but the soldiers caught up with them. Ruza Zelic begged the soldiers not to kill them, but the three of them were shot.
... svi oni koji su propustili da kazne direktne izvrsioce zlocina u Grabovici i Uzdolu, odgovaraju u Hagu i da dobiju maksimalne kazne.
Oni su glavni krivci sto je ovim ukaljan obraz Armije BiH i njenih casnih boraca.
Jer trebalo je cijelih 10 godina, i to tek poslije insistiranje Haga, da neki od direktnih izvrsilaca budu uhapseni ...
PBS BiH wrote: http://www.pbsbih.ba/vijesti/2003/august/23/v01.html
MUSTAFA HOTA I ENES ŠAKRAK UHAPŠENI ZBOG SUMNJE DA SU POČINILI RATNI ZLOČIN U GRABOVICI

Sarajevo, 23.08.2003. - Ministarstvo unutrašnjih poslova Kantona Sarajevo potvrdilo je da su, zbog postojanja osnovane sumnje da su počinili ratni zločin u Grabovici 1993. godine, jučer uhapšeni Mustafa Hota i Enes Šakrak. U saopćenju Ministarstva unutrašnjih poslova se navodi da je hapšenje izvršeno po nalogu Kantonalnog suda u Sarajevu i naredbi za provođenje istrage Kantonalnog tužilaštva u Sarajevu. Hota i Šakrak su uhapšeni zbog osnovane sumnje da su, kao pripadnici Devete brdske motorizovane brigade Armije Bosne i Hercegovine, počinili krivično djelo ratnog zločina protiv civilnog stanovništva u selu Grabovica, općina Jablanica, osmog i devetog septembra 1993. godine. Hapšenje je izvršeno u skladu sa prethodno izdatom saglasnošću Ureda Tužioca Haškog tribunala.
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Vodenjak
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#94

Post by Vodenjak »

joker wrote:
Vodenjak wrote:
List wrote: Vidi ga što mu se osladilo. :D

Varaš se. I Delića mogu osuditi samo za nekažnjavanje a i dalje su jedini krivci izvršioci.
Osladice mi se kad se oci i ljudima poput tebe stvarno pocnu otvarati!
I nista drugo!
A svako neka odgovara i za cinjenje i za necinjenje onako kako i treba!
Meni se cini da bi neki Delica da osude bez obzira da li je stvarno kriv. Cemu to? Sta ako stvarno nema prostora za komandnu odgovornost i ako su jedini krivci sami izvrsioci i njihovi lokalni komandanti?
Ja sam vrlo jasno i precizno postavio svoj post...
To sto se na njega reagovalo kao da sam JA vec i osudio i Delica i zatvorio ga, to je nesto drugo...
I dalje tvrdim, AKO je ovaj prvi slobodan, i AKO se dokaze da ovaj drugi snosi krivicu, u svakoj normalnoj drzavi bi se moralo ici jos dalje "uzbrdo" i pogledati ko je iste postavljao ili smjenjivao!

Usput, ne mogu da izbjegnem mucninu u stomaku kada gledam dizanje u nebesa npr. zelenih beretki, i to poredim sa visegodisnjim pljuvanjem po ljudima koji su prvu, najtezu godinu u Bosni i Hercegovini bili nada njenog opstanka - Halilovic, Divjak, Siber...

:(
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Fair Life
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#95

Post by Fair Life »

Bakir Izetbegovic u intervjuu Nezavisnim Novinama...

NN: Da li je rahmetli Alija Izetbegović znao za zločine pojedinaca u bošnjačkim redovima na terenu i za logore poput "Silosa" u Tarčinu?

IZETBEGOVIĆ: Za neke je znao, za neke nije. Zaista je činio koliko je mogao da ih spriječi i preduprijedi. Jednom, pri povratku sa pregovora iz Ženeve, dočekale su ga vijesti o pokolju nad Hrvatima. Bio je poražen. Izjavio je da se idući put neće vratiti u zemlju ako bosanska vojska nastavi maltretirati narod kao što rade agresorske vojske. Znao je za "Silos" i pokušavao da oslobodi Srbe zatvorene u njemu. Od naše policije je dobivao odgovor da je u kućama ovih Srba pronađeno oružje, ali mislim da je glavni problem bio u tome što su skoro svi Bošnjaci muškarci iz Hadžića bili odvedeni od strane srpske vojske, stotine njih, i njihove familije su se nadale razmjeni. Na kraju krajeva, Srbi iz "Silosa" su izašli živi, Bošnjacima iz Hadžića nikada nije pronađen trag.

http://www.nezavisne.com/revija/tekst2-050313.php
Apos
Posts: 383
Joined: 13/12/2004 10:29

#96

Post by Apos »

Za sve je kriv CACO. Ne može u Haag jer se nezna gdje je zatrpan.
Molim dotične da lične diskusije nastave preko Privtnih poruka ili nek razmjene brojeve telefona, a da prekinu sa objavljivanjem postova od 2/3 stranice. :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih:
Sefere bravo.
Hajmo spašavat Rasima.
Lešinari odstupite.
Apos
Posts: 383
Joined: 13/12/2004 10:29

#97

Post by Apos »

Fair Life wrote:Bakir Izetbegovic u intervjuu Nezavisnim Novinama...

NN: Da li je rahmetli Alija Izetbegović znao za zločine pojedinaca u bošnjačkim redovima na terenu i za logore poput "Silosa" u Tarčinu?

IZETBEGOVIĆ: Za neke je znao, za neke nije. Zaista je činio koliko je mogao da ih spriječi i preduprijedi. Jednom, pri povratku sa pregovora iz Ženeve, dočekale su ga vijesti o pokolju nad Hrvatima. Bio je poražen. Izjavio je da se idući put neće vratiti u zemlju ako bosanska vojska nastavi maltretirati narod kao što rade agresorske vojske. Znao je za "Silos" i pokušavao da oslobodi Srbe zatvorene u njemu. Od naše policije je dobivao odgovor da je u kućama ovih Srba pronađeno oružje, ali mislim da je glavni problem bio u tome što su skoro svi Bošnjaci muškarci iz Hadžića bili odvedeni od strane srpske vojske, stotine njih, i njihove familije su se nadale razmjeni. Na kraju krajeva, Srbi iz "Silosa" su izašli živi, Bošnjacima iz Hadžića nikada nije pronađen trag.

http://www.nezavisne.com/revija/tekst2-050313.php
Na kraju krajeva, Srbi iz "Silosa" su izašli živi, Bošnjacima iz Hadžića nikada nije pronađen trag. U ovoj rečenici se krije jedna od tragedija BH Muslimana, i pobijeni i optuženi da su ubijali. :x
User avatar
Fair Life
Posts: 14219
Joined: 02/03/2004 00:00

#98

Post by Fair Life »

NN: Šta mislite o podizanju optužnice protiv penzionisanog generala Armije BiH Rasima Delića, ali i najave mogućih optužnica protiv Ejupa Ganića i Sakiba Mahmuljina?

IZETBEGOVIĆ: Naš narod je u proteklom ratu doživio takve zločine, pokolje i poniženja da je pravo čudo kako se Armija BiH, regrutovana pretežno od bošnjačkih izbjeglica, nije masovno osvetila nad nebošnjačkim stanovništvom. U istoriji ratovanja nije bilo naroda koji je pretrpio takav genocid, a u takvoj se mjeri suzdržao od osvete. Čuda ne postoje, iza discipline Armije je stajalo Predsjedništvo BiH i armijski vrh sa generalom Delićem na čelu. Normalno, i naša vojska je učinila neke zločine, ali to su bili incidenti, a ne način ratovanja. General Delić se suprotstavio jedinicama koje su maltretirale Srbe u Sarajevu. Bio je to dramatičan i neizvjestan obračun u jesen 1993. godine, u tom obračunu je od strane pobunjenika ubijen sin Avde Hebiba, Delićev sin je uhvaćen, ali je uspio da skoči kroz prozor i pobjegne u susjednu zgradu egipatskog UNPROFOR-a. Bošnjaci trebaju biti zahvalni Deliću što im je sačuvao obraz, Srbi zato što im je sačuvao živote. Preostaje nam da se nadamo pravdi u Hagu, za generala Delića i za sve ostale.
Last edited by Fair Life on 17/11/2005 09:53, edited 1 time in total.
Prenj
Posts: 7014
Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59

#99

Post by Prenj »

Apos wrote:Za sve je kriv CACO. Ne može u Haag jer se nezna gdje je zatrpan.
Molim dotične da lične diskusije nastave preko Privtnih poruka ili nek razmjene brojeve telefona, a da prekinu sa objavljivanjem postova od 2/3 stranice. :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih:
Sefere bravo.
Hajmo spašavat Rasima.
Lešinari odstupite.
Zasto bi sad spasavali Rasima?
Da li je Rasim ucinio bilo sta da kazni ubice iz Grabovice i Uzdola?

Nije bas da se ne zna gdje je Caco zatrpan. Njemu je priredjena velicanstvena dzenaza poslije rata.
Apos
Posts: 383
Joined: 13/12/2004 10:29

#100

Post by Apos »

Prenj wrote:
Apos wrote:Za sve je kriv CACO. Ne može u Haag jer se nezna gdje je zatrpan.
Molim dotične da lične diskusije nastave preko Privtnih poruka ili nek razmjene brojeve telefona, a da prekinu sa objavljivanjem postova od 2/3 stranice. :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih: :bih:
Sefere bravo.
Hajmo spašavat Rasima.
Lešinari odstupite.
Zasto bi sad spasavali Rasima?
Da li je Rasim ucinio bilo sta da kazni ubice iz Grabovice i Uzdola?

Nije bas da se ne zna gdje je Caco zatrpan. Njemu je priredjena velicanstvena dzenaza poslije rata.
Zasto bi sad spasavali Rasima?
Ili si neupuićen ili se samo praviš. A možda nisi bio u ratu pa ti je svejedno.
Da li je Rasim ucinio bilo sta da kazni ubice iz Grabovice i Uzdola?
Da li je poslije toga bilo više zločina'
I titovi partizani su u Mostaru 1945 počinili zločine po mojim informacijma ubijeno 48 civila što Muslimana što Katolika, a još oko 240 odvedeno od kojih se neki nisu nikad vratili. Bilo je tu žena, djece i iznemoglih. Nikad niko nije odgovarao.
Objašnjenje : BIO RAT.
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