Bosanac u Bosni (ili bilo koji drugi nick)-bravo za post sa Levievim tekstom o Aliji.
Jos kada bi neko mogao naci njegovu izjavu i poziv gradjanima BiH odmah nakon Dejtona i posljednji intervju dat Hadzifejzovicu pred smrt, vidjece se ustvari za sta se covjek borio i o cemu je sanjao. Samo BiH je konstanta za koju je Izetbegovic sebe dao. Ali ne samo BiH koja bi bila Bosnjacka, vec BiH sva tri naroda.
Iskreno mislim tako, ali je problem nekih sto u to nikad nisu vjerovali, pa kad je to i bilo ocito nisu htjeli da prihvate tu cinjenicu. Pa i danas, kada je BiH opstala, na prvom mjestu, Izetbegovicevom istrajnom borbom, oni ne zele prihvatiti cinjenice.
Lakse im se valjda prikloniti onima koji su radili na nestanku Bosne, a danas su prisiljeni zivjeti i prihvatiti realnost njenog opstanka i postojanja za sta se Izetbegovic borio i izborio (ne bas onakvu BiH kakva je trebala biti, ali ipak jedinstvenu), pa danas napadaju Izetbegovica optuzujuci ga za nesto sto nema veze sa istinom.
Cinjenica je da je Izetbegovic bio doveden u poziciju da mora biti i predstavnik BiH i svih njenih naroda, s jedne strane, te predstavnik iskljucivo Bosnjaka, s druge strane. U toj malo konfuznoj situaciji su neprijatelji Bosne htjeli dokazati da se on bori za neki fundamentalizam. Non sense.
Imao je on svojih politickih gresaka, ali nijedna nije bila ucinjena iz nekih losih namjera prema bilo kome, vec prije zbog postenja doticnog vjerujuci da u nekim situacijama nece i ne moze biti izigran. A tad nisu samo Slobo i kompanija htjeli da nas izigraju, ne zaboravimo, bili su tu i ini lordovi i pregovaraci, sto engleski, sto francuski i drugi koji su htjeli raznim podvalama i planovima verifikovati ono sto su Slobini "ratnici" i "podanici" zlocinima postigli. Tada je i Evropi bilo lakse rijesiti problem u ex-Yu podjelom i nestankom Bosne. Ali njegovom politickom istrajnoscu i naravno istrajnoscu boraca Armije BiH, morali su, za njih, tezim putem rjesavati problem, koji ni do danas nije do kraja rijesen. U svim tim okolnostima, ne napraviti nijednu gresku, bilo bi suludo ocekivati. Ali je bitno da pozadina tih gresaka nije u njegovim losim namjerama.
Daj Boze pa BiH uskoro dobije politicara sa humanoscu i iskrenom ljubavi prema BiH kao sto je on imao... Rahmet mu...
P.S. Pokusajte razdvojiti Aliju Izetbegovica od SDA i njenih "najboljih" kadrova. On jeste bio predsjednik te stranke, ali je on na prvom mjestu bio predsjednik BiH, a o SDA su brigu vodili oni koji danas predstavljaju njene "dicne" kadrove.
Dvije godine kako je Alija Izetbegovic preselio na ahiret
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#77
U Guardianu je prije dvije godine, povodom smrti A. Izetbegovica izasao ovaj izvanredni tekst.
The Guardian wrote: Alija Izetbegovic
Bosnia's first president, a devout Muslim who fought for his country's survival in war and peace during the 1990s
Ian Traynor
Monday October 20, 2003
The Guardian
Alija Izetbegovic, the first president of Bosnia and Herzegovina, has died aged 78 in Sarajevo's Kosevo hospital, which overlooks the graves of so many of that city's siege victims. His was a short - and a late - political career, and one to which he always seemed ill-suited, as if history had played a cruel joke in casting him in a key role in the sad and brutal war disfiguring the Balkans.
Izetbegovic, a Slav Muslim, survived first Serbian and then Croatian assaults on his people and their ancestral lands, Yugoslav army arrest, Serbian rocketing and sniper fire of his offices, the backstabbing of rival Muslim leaders, and the contempt of western mediators before dying of a heart attack in the city he had inhabited since his youth.
Always an improbable national leader, devout and mild-mannered, he chalked up just over five years as president of Bosnia (1990-96) and after that, four years as co-president (1996-2000) in the wake of the Dayton peace treaty of December 1995.As president, he spent most of that time leading the fight for his country's very survival.
In a former Yugoslavia destroyed by misrule and betrayed by a host of treacherous, power-hungry leaders, Izetbegovic stood out as a decent sort. Even so, he blundered and schemed to the detriment of the cause he professed to be serving - that of an integrated Bosnia. He was more sinned against than sinning, but in the political, military, and diplomatic games of the Balkans, he was no angel either.
Izetbegovic emerged from obscurity at the end of the 1980s, just as the political battles that accompanied the collapse of communism and the nationalist ascendancy were being played out. In the spring of 1990, he helped form and was chosen leader of the Democratic Action Party.
In the first modern multi-party elections in November of that year, the Muslim party was strongest, by virtue of representing the biggest single national group, 44% of the pre-war population. By this time, the Bosnian political spectrum had already split along ethnic lines. President Franjo Tudjman of Croatia sponsored the creation of the Bosnian wing of his Croatian Democratic Union, while Radovan Karadzic's Serbian Democratic Party, controlled by Belgrade, became the other main force. Such a politics of ethnic exclusiveness made the war predictable. In opting for ethnic politics, Izetbegovic was as guilty as the Serbian and Croatian fanatics who hated him so viscerally.
As head of the strongest party, Izetbegovic became president, or rather first among equals in the collective presidency. Of all the heads of state in the six republics of former Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic uniquely had been a lifelong anti-communist. All the other leaders had been senior apparatchiks in the communist regime, although Tudjman swapped his communism for nationalism at the end of the 1960s.
By the summer of 1991, war was raging first in Slovenia, then much more seriously in Croatia. In a vain attempt to avert the looming bloodbath, Izetbegovic backed a new, looser structure for Yugoslavia, and sought to sweet-talk the (Serb) Yugoslav army, with its considerable stockpiles of arms and garrisons in Bosnia, into reason. However, he did little to prepare his people for what was about to befall them.
When western Europe bowed to German pressure and recognised Croatia's independence at the beginning of 1992, the Bosnian die was cast. Izetbegovic was forced to decide whether to request international recognition, too, or opt to remain as what would be an appendage of a Greater Serbia run by the Milosevic regime in Belgrade. The choice between following Tudjman or running with Milosevic, both of whom were scheming in secret to carve up Bosnia between them, was like having to choose between leukaemia and a brain tumour, he once memorably remarked.
Following an independence plebiscite, European recognition of a state called Bosnia-Herzegovina came on April 5 1992, and the Serbs launched their partitionist war the next day. The Serbs instituted the Sarajevo siege, and Izetbegovic looked to the wider Muslim world for financial support and hundreds of troops. There followed long weeks bunkered in the Sarajevo presidency where Izetbegovic veered between panic and other-worldly serenity, punctuated by endless negotiating sessions in Geneva, Vienna, London, and Ohio, culminating in the Dayton deal in 1995.
Izetbegovic often seemed a lonely old man. Throughout the terrible waves of ethnic cleansing in what was primarily a war against civilians, Izetbegovic alone among the rival leaders retained a moral stature. "Those who have bloodied their hands cannot be forgiven," he said. "But the only ones who are to be forgiven regardless of everything are the women and children. Let us not be an army that does what they are doing to us. Let us never fight against women and children. We will never win if we do."
The Serb and Croat leaders hated him for that kind of talk. In the propaganda of both regimes, Izetbegovic was a closet ayatollah, scheming to establish an Islamic theocracy.
He was a devout Muslim, who once affirmed that he had "no national feelings at all". The religious activism that earned him two jail terms under the communists was distorted by the Serb and Croat regimes to paint him as an Islamic supremacist.
Izetbegovic was born in the north Bosnian town of Bosanski Samac, and moved as a child to Sarajevo, where he spent the second world war. Just after the war, as Tito's communists tightened their grip on Yugoslavia, he was jailed for three years for religious agitation. He later studied law at Sarajevo university and worked as a legal consultant to Bosnian firms.
In 1970, he published his Islamic Declaration, a tract that says Islam is incompatible with non-Islamic systems and calls for Islamic religious and political revolution. The book made no reference to Bosnia, but it remained the basis for the well-funded and well-organised Serb and Croat campaigns to label Izetbegovic a fundamentalist.
In 1982, with Bosnia under hardline communist rule, Izetbegovic got a 14-year term for his publication Islam Between East And West, an attempt to define the curious status of Bosnia's Muslims, a population of semi-westernised Balkan Slavs. He served five years in Foca, south-east of Sarajevo, where Serbs massacred Muslims during the second world war and again in 1992.
He emerged from jail in 1988 to a Yugoslavia in its death throes, a process seriously set in train the previous year by the arrival in power of Slobodan Milosevic in Belgrade.
With the bigger and more powerful Serbian and Croatian nationalist rulers bent on helping themselves to Bosnia and confining the Muslims to the status of second-class citizens, the odds were stacked against Izetbegovic.
In the end, he, too, ended up a nationalist leader, agreeing in mid-1993 to the division of Bosnia along ethnic lines. And embittered by the ferocity of the assault on Bosnia's Muslims and what he perceived as their betrayal by the west, he eschewed all claim to multi-ethnic leadership.
However, above all, Izetbegovic, branded a fundamentalist by his enemies but who embodied the wish to live-and-let-live more than those enemies ever did, leaves behind a country partitioned and destroyed by the real fundamentalists, the Serb and Croat leaderships, in the worst barbarity seen in Europe since the Nazis.
He is survived by his wife, Halida, and three children, Sabina, Lejla and Bakir.
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avicena
- Posts: 2316
- Joined: 08/07/2005 00:19
#78
...valjda se sa strane bolje vidi...joker wrote: ......bravo za post sa Levievim tekstom o Aliji.
"Alija Izetbegović je bio od onih umjerenih muslimana koje nismo umjeli slušati, koji je propovijedao islam tolerancije i razumijevanja, građanski islam i mi nismo htjeli da ga razumijemo", rekao je francuski filozof Bernar-Anri Levi/Bernard-Henri Lévy u omažu bivšem predsjedniku Bosne i Hercegovine. "Godine 1992. on je preklinjao Evropu da interveniše, upozoravao je Fransoa Miterana/François Mitterrand da u Bosni postoje srpski koncentracioni logori, ali ga bivši francuski predsjednik nije slušao", rekao je Levi i naglasio: "Nismo slušali Izetbegovića, kao što nismo slušali ni Masuda, i posljedica je 200.000 mrtvih u Bosni i Hercegovini i rat zbog Kosova, što smo mogli izbjeći da smo ga slušali", rekao je Levi o Aliji Izetbegoviću, kojeg je okarakterisao kao "francuskog De Gola/De Gaulle".
"Njegova vjera je bila islam, ali credo su mu također bili demokratija i multietničnost", istakao je autor knjige "Ljiljan i pepeo" o ratu u Bosni i Hercegovini i dokumentarnog filma "Bosna", snimljenog u Sarajevu pod opsadom 1994. godine.
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avicena
- Posts: 2316
- Joined: 08/07/2005 00:19
#80
Ko zna šta bi tek onda pisao....
Objavio je dnevnik kojeg je vodio tokom rata u Bosni, pod simboličnim nazivom "Ljiljan i pepeo" u kojem analizira početak ratova na Balkanu. Bernard-Henry Levy u svome dnevniku, 23. maja 1992. godine zapisao je sljedeće:
"Pascal Bruckner u Flori. (...) Pokušavam mu reći da on upravo brka dvije stvari: rat u Hrvatskoj, gdje se sukobljavaju, htjeli to ili ne, dva nacionalizma; rat u Bosni, međutim, gdje se suprotstavljaju jedan nacionalizam i jedan kozmopolitizam koji je čast Evrope." (Ljiljan i pepeo)
Objavio je dnevnik kojeg je vodio tokom rata u Bosni, pod simboličnim nazivom "Ljiljan i pepeo" u kojem analizira početak ratova na Balkanu. Bernard-Henry Levy u svome dnevniku, 23. maja 1992. godine zapisao je sljedeće:
"Pascal Bruckner u Flori. (...) Pokušavam mu reći da on upravo brka dvije stvari: rat u Hrvatskoj, gdje se sukobljavaju, htjeli to ili ne, dva nacionalizma; rat u Bosni, međutim, gdje se suprotstavljaju jedan nacionalizam i jedan kozmopolitizam koji je čast Evrope." (Ljiljan i pepeo)
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halo_ba
- Posts: 1582
- Joined: 05/10/2005 21:06
#82
jada i domaci dusmani dodju tobeHusko Kotrljanjić wrote:Kurt_Kombajn wrote:Zelim biti sasvim iskren...sad, mozda ja nisam dovoljno informisan, mozda sam grdno prevaren, ali mislim da A. Izetbegovic, sve u svemu, nije imao lose namjere, te da nije bio seljacina, prostak, tek jos jedan gedza iz provincije...dalje mislim da je radio kako je najbolje znao i umio, i kako se, realno, u onim okolnostima moglo...da li je znao i umio dovoljno, odnosno da li se moglo bolje, pokazace vrijeme...
...da nije potpisao dejton i da je nastavio rat, danas bi ga opet isti likovi pljuvali, ovaj put zato sto bi jos vise ljudi izginulo...danas mnogi kazu, "trebalo se ici dalje, mogao je peti korpus osloboditi banjaluku, alija je kriv sto se stalo"...medjutim, nekako mi se cini da ga najvise osudjuju oni koji se sklonili u inostranstvo i cija djeca nisu gladovala i smrzavala se po rovovima, pa su ocekivali da im alija sa svojih sedamdeset i nesto uzme tandzaru i oslobodi zemlju...
...takodje mi smeta sto ga mnogi blate i povezuju kradje i malverzacije sa njegovim imenom, a izbjegavaju da konkretno navedu o kojim se vrijednostima, uslugama, novcima, nekretninama radi, kada, gdje...ne moze se to tako lako sakriti...cini mi se da je doticni u bolnicu a zatim na ahiret otisao iz svog skromnog, dvosobnog stana kojeg je imao i prije rata, dalje ne sjecam se da je nekad otkriven racun na njegovo ime sa basnoslovnim sumama (ne sakriva se ni to bas tako lako), kao sto mi nije poznato ni to da se njegova djeca pretrgose putujuci po svijetu i gradeci vile i fabrike...
...dalje, ima ih koji se razbacuju njegovim izjavama, cesto izvucenim iz koneksta, a za oko su mi zapale dvije:
1. "mirno spavajte, rata biti nece"...i? da li je, stvarno, kvocijent inteligencije prosjecnog bosanca toliko nizak, da mu neko drugi treba reci ono sto svojim ocima i sam vidi?? da je, kojim slucajem, rekao suprotno "spremajte se, bice rata", pa kako bi ga tek onda danas optuzivali da je prvi pozivao na ubijanje, na rat?
2. "do podne mislim jedno, od podne drugo"...da li bi iko iole inteligentan, za sebe samoga u novinama, javno izjavio takvo nesto?????(a takva budala, bas i nije bio)...stvarno me cudi da i mnogi pametni ljudi potezu taj lapsus kao ozbiljan argument...pa takva izjava se ne bi otela ni najzescem kretenu, prije mislim da je htio za sebe reci da je neodlucan, da ne moze da se rijesi sta da poduzme...ali to je samo licno misljenje, ne znam...kao sto rekoh, lako je moguce da su me mediji podobro izigrali, no dosada nisam vidio konkretnog argumenta da mi promijeni misljenje...
Nit sta oduzet nit sta dodat,potpisujem.
Ima ona narodna koja kaze: VOLI ONOG KOGA TVOJI DUSMANI MRZE.
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Fair Life
- Posts: 14219
- Joined: 02/03/2004 00:00
#85
Shehid... ??Soldier_of_Allah wrote:Alija je jedan od najvecih sinova Bosne....Uspio je da sacuva Bosnu,pa ga oni koji mrze Bosu ,poput ovog fasiste koji se prodaje da je anti...Alija je moralna vlicina, koju je svijet priznao i divio joj se....Pa crknite sad....
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joker
- Posts: 710
- Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00
#86
Fair Laif pa da te nije A.I. istjerao iz Bosanske Dubice. Ili su to uradili krvnici kojima su na celu bili Karadzic i Milosevic? Pa da su i Levija otjerali odatle, ne vidim zasto bi on imao drugacije misljenje o A.I. Ti si ocito podlegao propagandi velikodrzavnih ideja nasih nam susjeda iliti komsija. Procitaj onaj tekst iz Gardijana (ja ovo na bosanskom), valjda znas engleski. A tamo su opisane i Izetbegoviceve politicke greske koje je on u onim okolnostima napravio, iz najboljih namjera. Veliki su to pritisci bili, i od strane onih koji su ovdje bili poslati da pomognu, da prate da se ne dese zlocini i genocid, a ne samo od agresora-pa svi se sjecamo i mekenzija, i Karingtona, i inih drugih lordova i predstavnika, i Holandskih trupa u Srebrenici koji su slavili sa zlocincima kada su oni uradili onaj pokolj u Srebrenici. Pa ti u takvim okolnostima budi uvijek mudar...
Da pamtis, to "cvijece" je pohvaljeno od strane drugih kosmopolita, nismo mi to sami za sebe rekli. A ti ocito bolujes od onog kompleksa "tudja koza puna loja, a u svojoj nimalo".
Prenj, ti si inteligentno stvorenje. Znas sta se mislilo pod onim "drugaciji". Praviti se glup nije vrlina kada je to iskoristeno da se sere po sebi samome.
P.S. Hajde se probajte distancirati svojih politickih stavova usadjenih vam u glavu i formulisanih od strane novinara po nalogu (SDP-ovci, SDA-ovci, HDZ-ovci, SDS-ovci-svaki sa svog stanovista) i pokusajte sagledati znacaj Izetbegovica kao prvog predsjednika RBiH i velikog borca za BiH. Kao sto su to ucinili Levi, Holbruk i drugi...
Da pamtis, to "cvijece" je pohvaljeno od strane drugih kosmopolita, nismo mi to sami za sebe rekli. A ti ocito bolujes od onog kompleksa "tudja koza puna loja, a u svojoj nimalo".
Prenj, ti si inteligentno stvorenje. Znas sta se mislilo pod onim "drugaciji". Praviti se glup nije vrlina kada je to iskoristeno da se sere po sebi samome.
P.S. Hajde se probajte distancirati svojih politickih stavova usadjenih vam u glavu i formulisanih od strane novinara po nalogu (SDP-ovci, SDA-ovci, HDZ-ovci, SDS-ovci-svaki sa svog stanovista) i pokusajte sagledati znacaj Izetbegovica kao prvog predsjednika RBiH i velikog borca za BiH. Kao sto su to ucinili Levi, Holbruk i drugi...
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joker
- Posts: 710
- Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00
#88
Za moderatora
Posto mi je moderator ukinuo temu i rekao da vec ima tema o A.I. i uputio me ovdje mada ova tema ima veze sa A.I., ali se vise odnosi na visoke predstavnike i njihov rad ovdje, odnosno njihov odnos spram nekih bitnih pitanja u BiH dok su na funkciji i njihov stvarni, licni stav spram tih istih stvari kasnije kad vise nisu na funkciji (pa sto to nisu na vrijeme pricali), ja cu ovdje postirati navedeno, a nadam se da ce moderator uvidjeti da je to zasluzilo da bude tema za sebe (kad vec imamo mali milion tema o homicima, Zelji-Sarajevu i sl. koje nisu suvisne da bi bile, iako vrlo slicne, same za sebe). Unaprijed zahvalan moderatorima.
Tema je bila:
Pedi bio na Kovacima na mezaru A. Izetbegovica
Sta onda to znaci, Pedi?
Odluku si ponistio kao stav stranaca, a licno o Izetbegovicu imas drugo misljenje? Ili?... Volio bih da je i on na ovom forumu da nam odgovori...
Cinjenica je da svaki visoki predstavnik dok je na toj funkciji provodi politiku koja je nedovoljno odlucna i za BiH i njenu dobrobit mlaka (da ne kazem bezperspektivna), a kad odu s te funkcije pricaju (valjda onda u svoje ime iznoseci svoj stav koji su oformili na osnovu cinjenicnog stanja) kako bi za dobrobit BiH trebalo mijenjati Dejton, ukinuti RS, o Izetbegovicu se samo pozitivno izjasnjavaju i prave jasnu razliku izmedju probosanskih i antibosanskih snaga. A kada to traze pojedini nasi politicari od njih dok su ovi predstavnici na funkciji seru o nekakvim stvarima koje nemaju nikakve veze sa cinjenicnim stanjem i realnoscu, i pricaju o nekakvim utopijama smisljenim u glavama lobiranih stranih politicara (francuskih, britanskih i dr.)...
I da, pricaju nam o suzivotu i toleranciji, kao mi vijekovima zivjeli odvojeni zidovima bez ikakvog kontakta, pa ne znamo nista jedni o drugima...
ima tema o A.I.
http://www.sarajevo-x.com/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0
Moderator
Posto mi je moderator ukinuo temu i rekao da vec ima tema o A.I. i uputio me ovdje mada ova tema ima veze sa A.I., ali se vise odnosi na visoke predstavnike i njihov rad ovdje, odnosno njihov odnos spram nekih bitnih pitanja u BiH dok su na funkciji i njihov stvarni, licni stav spram tih istih stvari kasnije kad vise nisu na funkciji (pa sto to nisu na vrijeme pricali), ja cu ovdje postirati navedeno, a nadam se da ce moderator uvidjeti da je to zasluzilo da bude tema za sebe (kad vec imamo mali milion tema o homicima, Zelji-Sarajevu i sl. koje nisu suvisne da bi bile, iako vrlo slicne, same za sebe). Unaprijed zahvalan moderatorima.
Tema je bila:
Pedi bio na Kovacima na mezaru A. Izetbegovica
Sta onda to znaci, Pedi?
Odluku si ponistio kao stav stranaca, a licno o Izetbegovicu imas drugo misljenje? Ili?... Volio bih da je i on na ovom forumu da nam odgovori...
Cinjenica je da svaki visoki predstavnik dok je na toj funkciji provodi politiku koja je nedovoljno odlucna i za BiH i njenu dobrobit mlaka (da ne kazem bezperspektivna), a kad odu s te funkcije pricaju (valjda onda u svoje ime iznoseci svoj stav koji su oformili na osnovu cinjenicnog stanja) kako bi za dobrobit BiH trebalo mijenjati Dejton, ukinuti RS, o Izetbegovicu se samo pozitivno izjasnjavaju i prave jasnu razliku izmedju probosanskih i antibosanskih snaga. A kada to traze pojedini nasi politicari od njih dok su ovi predstavnici na funkciji seru o nekakvim stvarima koje nemaju nikakve veze sa cinjenicnim stanjem i realnoscu, i pricaju o nekakvim utopijama smisljenim u glavama lobiranih stranih politicara (francuskih, britanskih i dr.)...
I da, pricaju nam o suzivotu i toleranciji, kao mi vijekovima zivjeli odvojeni zidovima bez ikakvog kontakta, pa ne znamo nista jedni o drugima...
ima tema o A.I.
http://www.sarajevo-x.com/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0
Moderator
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joker
- Posts: 710
- Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00
#92
Pa recimo dobar opis, a da o Izetbegovicu vecim dijelom pise pozitivno citiracu neke dijelove. Takodje, u tekstu se navode i njegove greske (donekle se slazem i sa njima)...
Alija Izetbegovic
Bosnia's first president, a devout Muslim who fought for his country's survival in war and peace during the 1990s
Izetbegovic, a Slav Muslim, survived first Serbian and then Croatian assaults on his people and their ancestral lands, Yugoslav army arrest, Serbian rocketing and sniper fire of his offices, the backstabbing of rival Muslim leaders, and the contempt of western mediators before dying of a heart attack in the city he had inhabited since his youth.
Always an improbable national leader, devout and mild-mannered, he chalked up just over five years as president of Bosnia (1990-96) and after that, four years as co-president (1996-2000) in the wake of the Dayton peace treaty of December 1995.As president, he spent most of that time leading the fight for his country's very survival.
In opting for ethnic politics, Izetbegovic was as guilty as the Serbian and Croatian fanatics who hated him so viscerally.
Of all the heads of state in the six republics of former Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic uniquely had been a lifelong anti-communist.
The choice between following Tudjman or running with Milosevic, both of whom were scheming in secret to carve up Bosnia between them, was like having to choose between leukaemia and a brain tumour, he once memorably remarked.
Throughout the terrible waves of ethnic cleansing in what was primarily a war against civilians, Izetbegovic alone among the rival leaders retained a moral stature. "Those who have bloodied their hands cannot be forgiven," he said. "But the only ones who are to be forgiven regardless of everything are the women and children. Let us not be an army that does what they are doing to us. Let us never fight against women and children. We will never win if we do."
The Serb and Croat leaders hated him for that kind of talk. In the propaganda of both regimes, Izetbegovic was a closet ayatollah, scheming to establish an Islamic theocracy.
He was a devout Muslim, who once affirmed that he had "no national feelings at all". The religious activism that earned him two jail terms under the communists was distorted by the Serb and Croat regimes to paint him as an Islamic supremacist.
In 1970, he published his Islamic Declaration, a tract that says Islam is incompatible with non-Islamic systems and calls for Islamic religious and political revolution. The book made no reference to Bosnia, but it remained the basis for the well-funded and well-organised Serb and Croat campaigns to label Izetbegovic a fundamentalist.
However, above all, Izetbegovic, branded a fundamentalist by his enemies but who embodied the wish to live-and-let-live more than those enemies ever did, leaves behind a country partitioned and destroyed by the real fundamentalists, the Serb and Croat leaderships, in the worst barbarity seen in Europe since the Nazis.
Alija Izetbegovic
Bosnia's first president, a devout Muslim who fought for his country's survival in war and peace during the 1990s
Izetbegovic, a Slav Muslim, survived first Serbian and then Croatian assaults on his people and their ancestral lands, Yugoslav army arrest, Serbian rocketing and sniper fire of his offices, the backstabbing of rival Muslim leaders, and the contempt of western mediators before dying of a heart attack in the city he had inhabited since his youth.
Always an improbable national leader, devout and mild-mannered, he chalked up just over five years as president of Bosnia (1990-96) and after that, four years as co-president (1996-2000) in the wake of the Dayton peace treaty of December 1995.As president, he spent most of that time leading the fight for his country's very survival.
In opting for ethnic politics, Izetbegovic was as guilty as the Serbian and Croatian fanatics who hated him so viscerally.
Of all the heads of state in the six republics of former Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic uniquely had been a lifelong anti-communist.
The choice between following Tudjman or running with Milosevic, both of whom were scheming in secret to carve up Bosnia between them, was like having to choose between leukaemia and a brain tumour, he once memorably remarked.
Throughout the terrible waves of ethnic cleansing in what was primarily a war against civilians, Izetbegovic alone among the rival leaders retained a moral stature. "Those who have bloodied their hands cannot be forgiven," he said. "But the only ones who are to be forgiven regardless of everything are the women and children. Let us not be an army that does what they are doing to us. Let us never fight against women and children. We will never win if we do."
The Serb and Croat leaders hated him for that kind of talk. In the propaganda of both regimes, Izetbegovic was a closet ayatollah, scheming to establish an Islamic theocracy.
He was a devout Muslim, who once affirmed that he had "no national feelings at all". The religious activism that earned him two jail terms under the communists was distorted by the Serb and Croat regimes to paint him as an Islamic supremacist.
In 1970, he published his Islamic Declaration, a tract that says Islam is incompatible with non-Islamic systems and calls for Islamic religious and political revolution. The book made no reference to Bosnia, but it remained the basis for the well-funded and well-organised Serb and Croat campaigns to label Izetbegovic a fundamentalist.
However, above all, Izetbegovic, branded a fundamentalist by his enemies but who embodied the wish to live-and-let-live more than those enemies ever did, leaves behind a country partitioned and destroyed by the real fundamentalists, the Serb and Croat leaderships, in the worst barbarity seen in Europe since the Nazis.
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da pamtis
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: 16/07/2005 14:10
#93
A ti ocito bolujes od onog kompleksa "tudja koza puna loja, a u svojoj nimalo".
jest fakat sam mrsav "oni" imaju "BBBINK" (pink) a mi nemamo ali nije to problem, mozemo 'mi' i u njihovom pinku uzivati.
potpisujem........Meni je ovaj clanak skoro pa savrsen opis Alije I.
His was a short - and a late - political career, and one to which he always seemed ill-suited, as if history had played a cruel joke in casting him in a key role in the sad and brutal war disfiguring the Balkans.
In opting for ethnic politics, Izetbegovic was as guilty as the Serbian and Croatian fanatics who hated him so viscerally.
i nije "hated" nego hate him..............
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joker
- Posts: 710
- Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00
#94
A vidimo i odakle pocinje propaganda o njemu kao o fundamentalisti i ko je izvor mase drugih "argumenata" protiv njega. Pise u clanku, a ja bih se onda zapitao da li se to ja slazem sa pomenutim istocnim i zapadnim izvorima made "by the real fundamentalists, the Serb and Croat leaderships" (kao sto to u clanku stoji).
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#95
Joker,
ti si podvukao pozitivne kritike iz teksta, ja sam negativne.
I to bi bilo manje-vise to.
ti si podvukao pozitivne kritike iz teksta, ja sam negativne.
I to bi bilo manje-vise to.
The Guardian wrote: Alija Izetbegovic
Bosnia's first president, a devout Muslim who fought for his country's survival in war and peace during the 1990s
Ian Traynor
Monday October 20, 2003
The Guardian
Alija Izetbegovic, the first president of Bosnia and Herzegovina, has died aged 78 in Sarajevo's Kosevo hospital, which overlooks the graves of so many of that city's siege victims. His was a short - and a late - political career, and one to which he always seemed ill-suited, as if history had played a cruel joke in casting him in a key role in the sad and brutal war disfiguring the Balkans.
Izetbegovic, a Slav Muslim, survived first Serbian and then Croatian assaults on his people and their ancestral lands, Yugoslav army arrest, Serbian rocketing and sniper fire of his offices, the backstabbing of rival Muslim leaders, and the contempt of western mediators before dying of a heart attack in the city he had inhabited since his youth.
Always an improbable national leader, devout and mild-mannered, he chalked up just over five years as president of Bosnia (1990-96) and after that, four years as co-president (1996-2000) in the wake of the Dayton peace treaty of December 1995.As president, he spent most of that time leading the fight for his country's very survival.
In a former Yugoslavia destroyed by misrule and betrayed by a host of treacherous, power-hungry leaders, Izetbegovic stood out as a decent sort. Even so, he blundered and schemed to the detriment of the cause he professed to be serving - that of an integrated Bosnia. He was more sinned against than sinning, but in the political, military, and diplomatic games of the Balkans, he was no angel either.
Izetbegovic emerged from obscurity at the end of the 1980s, just as the political battles that accompanied the collapse of communism and the nationalist ascendancy were being played out. In the spring of 1990, he helped form and was chosen leader of the Democratic Action Party.
In the first modern multi-party elections in November of that year, the Muslim party was strongest, by virtue of representing the biggest single national group, 44% of the pre-war population. By this time, the Bosnian political spectrum had already split along ethnic lines. President Franjo Tudjman of Croatia sponsored the creation of the Bosnian wing of his Croatian Democratic Union, while Radovan Karadzic's Serbian Democratic Party, controlled by Belgrade, became the other main force. Such a politics of ethnic exclusiveness made the war predictable. In opting for ethnic politics, Izetbegovic was as guilty as the Serbian and Croatian fanatics who hated him so viscerally.
As head of the strongest party, Izetbegovic became president, or rather first among equals in the collective presidency. Of all the heads of state in the six republics of former Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic uniquely had been a lifelong anti-communist. All the other leaders had been senior apparatchiks in the communist regime, although Tudjman swapped his communism for nationalism at the end of the 1960s.
By the summer of 1991, war was raging first in Slovenia, then much more seriously in Croatia. In a vain attempt to avert the looming bloodbath, Izetbegovic backed a new, looser structure for Yugoslavia, and sought to sweet-talk the (Serb) Yugoslav army, with its considerable stockpiles of arms and garrisons in Bosnia, into reason. However, he did little to prepare his people for what was about to befall them.
When western Europe bowed to German pressure and recognised Croatia's independence at the beginning of 1992, the Bosnian die was cast. Izetbegovic was forced to decide whether to request international recognition, too, or opt to remain as what would be an appendage of a Greater Serbia run by the Milosevic regime in Belgrade. The choice between following Tudjman or running with Milosevic, both of whom were scheming in secret to carve up Bosnia between them, was like having to choose between leukaemia and a brain tumour, he once memorably remarked.
Following an independence plebiscite, European recognition of a state called Bosnia-Herzegovina came on April 5 1992, and the Serbs launched their partitionist war the next day. The Serbs instituted the Sarajevo siege, and Izetbegovic looked to the wider Muslim world for financial support and hundreds of troops. There followed long weeks bunkered in the Sarajevo presidency where Izetbegovic veered between panic and other-worldly serenity, punctuated by endless negotiating sessions in Geneva, Vienna, London, and Ohio, culminating in the Dayton deal in 1995.
Izetbegovic often seemed a lonely old man. Throughout the terrible waves of ethnic cleansing in what was primarily a war against civilians, Izetbegovic alone among the rival leaders retained a moral stature. "Those who have bloodied their hands cannot be forgiven," he said. "But the only ones who are to be forgiven regardless of everything are the women and children. Let us not be an army that does what they are doing to us. Let us never fight against women and children. We will never win if we do."
The Serb and Croat leaders hated him for that kind of talk. In the propaganda of both regimes, Izetbegovic was a closet ayatollah, scheming to establish an Islamic theocracy.
He was a devout Muslim, who once affirmed that he had "no national feelings at all". The religious activism that earned him two jail terms under the communists was distorted by the Serb and Croat regimes to paint him as an Islamic supremacist.
Izetbegovic was born in the north Bosnian town of Bosanski Samac, and moved as a child to Sarajevo, where he spent the second world war. Just after the war, as Tito's communists tightened their grip on Yugoslavia, he was jailed for three years for religious agitation. He later studied law at Sarajevo university and worked as a legal consultant to Bosnian firms.
In 1970, he published his Islamic Declaration, a tract that says Islam is incompatible with non-Islamic systems and calls for Islamic religious and political revolution. The book made no reference to Bosnia, but it remained the basis for the well-funded and well-organised Serb and Croat campaigns to label Izetbegovic a fundamentalist.
In 1982, with Bosnia under hardline communist rule, Izetbegovic got a 14-year term for his publication Islam Between East And West, an attempt to define the curious status of Bosnia's Muslims, a population of semi-westernised Balkan Slavs. He served five years in Foca, south-east of Sarajevo, where Serbs massacred Muslims during the second world war and again in 1992.
He emerged from jail in 1988 to a Yugoslavia in its death throes, a process seriously set in train the previous year by the arrival in power of Slobodan Milosevic in Belgrade.
With the bigger and more powerful Serbian and Croatian nationalist rulers bent on helping themselves to Bosnia and confining the Muslims to the status of second-class citizens, the odds were stacked against Izetbegovic.
In the end, he, too, ended up a nationalist leader, agreeing in mid-1993 to the division of Bosnia along ethnic lines. And embittered by the ferocity of the assault on Bosnia's Muslims and what he perceived as their betrayal by the west, he eschewed all claim to multi-ethnic leadership.
However, above all, Izetbegovic, branded a fundamentalist by his enemies but who embodied the wish to live-and-let-live more than those enemies ever did, leaves behind a country partitioned and destroyed by the real fundamentalists, the Serb and Croat leaderships, in the worst barbarity seen in Europe since the Nazis.
He is survived by his wife, Halida, and three children, Sabina, Lejla and Bakir.
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Prenj
- Posts: 7014
- Joined: 20/07/2004 08:59
#96
Ko sto rekoh, meni je clanak skoro pa savrsen.joker wrote:A vidimo i odakle pocinje propaganda o njemu kao o fundamentalisti i ko je izvor mase drugih "argumenata" protiv njega. Pise u clanku, a ja bih se onda zapitao da li se to ja slazem sa pomenutim istocnim i zapadnim izvorima made "by the real fundamentalists, the Serb and Croat leaderships" (kao sto to u clanku stoji).
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joker
- Posts: 710
- Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00
#97
E moj da pamtis. Moglo je stajati i:
...as if history had played a cruel joke in casting us in a key role in the sad and brutal war disfiguring the ex-Yu...
Pa nismo mi losi zato sto se istorija nasalila sa nama dajuci nam glavnu ulogu u tuznom i brutalnom rat koji je rasturio ex-Yu. Ne pise da smo mi igrali ulogu negativca (ima vise glavnih uloga-zna se ko je igrao negativca), mi smo samo zbog te "sale" od strane istorije ubaceni u "taj" film...
...as if history had played a cruel joke in casting us in a key role in the sad and brutal war disfiguring the ex-Yu...
Pa nismo mi losi zato sto se istorija nasalila sa nama dajuci nam glavnu ulogu u tuznom i brutalnom rat koji je rasturio ex-Yu. Ne pise da smo mi igrali ulogu negativca (ima vise glavnih uloga-zna se ko je igrao negativca), mi smo samo zbog te "sale" od strane istorije ubaceni u "taj" film...
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joker
- Posts: 710
- Joined: 20/08/2002 00:00
#100
Da pamtis, mi ovdje nismo raspravljali u zadnjim postovima o tome sta je nas narod za njega rekao (i za nas) nego Levi, filozof, kosmopolita, mislim i jevrej (ako je to uopste bitno)...
A da smo bolji, bolji smo. To ti govore cifre ubijenih civila, porusenih bogomolja, spaljenih i opljackanih sela...
A da smo bolji, bolji smo. To ti govore cifre ubijenih civila, porusenih bogomolja, spaljenih i opljackanih sela...