Forum Klix.ba

valensija wrote:21.55 - Ukrajinci neće da pucaju u Ruse.

Iako neki ukrajinski mediji govore i pišu kako je veliki odaziv dobrovoljaca spremnih da ratuju, najnovije istraživanje koje je proveo ukrajinski nedeljnik "Korespondent" govori da ipak nije tako. Na pitanje jesu li spremni da uzmu oružje u ruke, od 16.000 ispitanika samo je 19 odsto reklo - da. Čak 27,9 odsto je kazalo da ne želi da puca u Ruse jer je to bratski narod. Više od petine (21,1 odsto) otvoreno kaže da bi izbeglo da učestvuje u bilo kakvom ratu.

vivaldi wrote:
ma jeste neminovan, a mislim da je vec sa zapada doslo dovoljno poruka da se nece mijesati vojno sto je sasvim logicno

zapad se cak i vrlo ciganski pokazao i u ekonomskom dijelu - ameri obecali 1 milijardu. To je kurac za zemlju od 40 miliona ljudi. 4 puta manjoj grckoj su dali stotine milijardi

na kraju krajeva, danas je sa obamom onaj novi razgovarao - on jako dobro zna na sta (ne)moze racunati.

u pravu si za putina. ne bi ni on uludo gino napadajuci cijelu ukrajinu, ali bi vjerovatno expresno upao na cijeli istok posto tu i ne bi bilo nekog otpora

tnnt wrote:a da je takav plan aneksije Krima odavno bio u ladici, je više nego očitosamo se čekao povod

vivaldi wrote:

tnnt wrote:a da je takav plan aneksije Krima odavno bio u ladici, je više nego očitosamo se čekao povod

pa evo, mozda si sam sebi dao odgovor na pitanje.

mozda putin samo trazi povod da sa krima produzi dalje prema istoku, a ovi ne zele da im daju, jer im je cilj da se minimira steta/gubitak

na kraju krajeva, oni sigurno imaju puuuuuuuuno bolje informacije od nas dvojice

Black swan wrote:25% ukrajinaca neće da ratuje?

Renta wrote:Zanimljivo. Ukrajinci ne žele pucati u Ruse...ali braća Rusi su spremni na gotovs pucati u Ukrajince.
Kako misle Ukrajinci sukob izbjeći biti će zanimljivo gledati...

tnnt wrote:ma nekad od pustih informacija nevidiš cijelu sliku, a i sve ovisi tko ti daje te informacije i tko te savjetuješta mu znači i da osvoji cijelu Ukrajinu ako je precjenio volju zapada, a kod njih nikada neznašneće zapad u rat ali ako lupe sankcije, nestati će u roku od par god novaca a tada i do stabilnostivlastite države, tj Rusije

vivaldi wrote: ma nema tu hoces neces ako se proglasi mobilizacija. ne bi ni kod nas rat trajao duze od 7 dana da su u njemu ucestvivali samo dobrovoljci. glavni sponzor rata je uvijek bila vojna policija. idealista nikada nije bio dovoljan broj.

jel mislis da se i onom rusu u jekaterineburgu ide ratovat na krim? ide...ko i meni

vivaldi wrote: ma sankcije ce biti televizijski marketing. zapad poznaje samo interes, a da sam sebi nanosi stetu zbog nekog krima, nec sigurno. hiljade zapadnih fabrika je otvoreno u rusiji zadnjih 20 godina, a a iz rusije je u prvacu zapadu izneseno stotine milijardi. i sad da to neko halali...

situacije ce biti fol malo napeta najdalje do narednih izbora u americi. obama se svakako vise ne moze kandidovati, a onda znas kako ide - novi predjsendik, nova politika, novi poceci, spustanje tenzija...blablabla...a to ce svima dobro doci
"nase misli su sa ukrajincima, ali biznis je biznis"

tnnt wrote:pa tko zna, biznis je biznis do određenog trenutka, ako oni procjene a takve procjene postojeda je Rusija prijetnja ne samo Ukrajini, onda se drugi parametri uzimaju u obziri nemoraju biti totalne sankcije, mogu naštetiti Rusiji sa ciljanim sankcijama a da sami budu neokrznuti

vivaldi wrote:evo naletih na malo relevatniji izvor od mene, koji pise bukavlno isto ono sto i ja govorim


19:16 - PUTINE PRIZNAJ KOSOVO I EVO TI KRIM

Zapadne zemlje spemne su da ruskom predsedniku Vladimiru Putinu daju Krim, a od njega zauzvrat traže da prizna Kosovo, piše austrijski “Der Standard”.

Kako navodio taj list, Zapadne diplomate nameravaju da pred predsednika Rusije izađu sa jasnom ponudom. Oni će mu dozvoliti da nakon nadgledanog referenduma na Krimu, koji se održava 16. marta, primi u sastav Ruske federacije tu ukrajinsku oblast.

S druge strane, Rusija mora da prizna Kosovo kao državu, odnosno da prihvati volju stanovnika takozvane države Kosovo za samoopredeljenjem.

Austrijski list navodi u daljem tekstu da je u današnjem svetu jedna stvar potpuno jasna: svako ko na pokazivanje moći reaguje pozivajući se na međunarodno pravo u startu izgubio.

i sta reci poslije ovoga? pricati o medjunarodnom pravu, istini i pravdi, moralu i principjelnosti...???

pragmatizam i interes. nista drugo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vivaldi wrote:Zapadne zemlje spemne su da ruskom predsedniku Vladimiru Putinu daju Krim

tnnt wrote:a kakav je interes zapada priznaje Kosova od strane Rusije?

vivaldi wrote:

tnnt wrote:a kakav je interes zapada priznaje Kosova od strane Rusije?

pa ko je od kosova napravio drzavu nego zapad. ocigledno su mali neki interes.

pa kad su ga vec napravili drzavom onda im je u interesu da ta drzava i funkcionise, a sa ruskim priznanjem bi i kosovu pao jedan poveci teg s noge

tnnt wrote:pa kako ne shvačaš, Putin je usporedio slučaj Krima sa Kosovoma ispada licemjeran jer nije priznao niti podržao to isto Kosovoa to isto traži za Krim, onda ako je principjelan mora priznati i Kosovocijeli članak nema nikakve veze sa nekim interesima

vivaldi wrote:
e jebiga sad, kakva crna licemjernost? ta rijec ne postoji nigdje u politici

It_is_a_Leclerc wrote:Nenad Pejić je svim Bošnjacima, ali i cijelom slobodnom svijetu, u svom tekstu na Slobodnoj Evropi, objasnio zašto je Putin = Milošević, i zašto ga treba zaustaviti...

Preporučujem Rusofilima..


As I watch the news and images from Crimea, I can’t help but feel a sense of deja vu. It's as if I am reliving the 1992 break-up of Yugoslavia and the beginning of the war in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

When Russia's propaganda machine claims the unmarked troops in Crimea are spontaneously organized self-defense forces comprising concerned citizens, I am reminded of similarly "self-organized" armed groups setting up barricades in Sarajevo in March 1992.

Just like in Crimea, these troops lacked recognizable insignia. What they did have were brand new Kalashnikovs, impeccably organized communication, and military discipline. The similarity is eerie and ominous for anyone who was in Sarajevo at that time.

What's the difference between Vladimir Putin and Slobodan Milosevic? About 22 years.

They are one man with two shadows; one modus operandi separated by a little more than two decades.

In fact, if Milosevic were alive today, he could probably sue Putin for plagiarism.

The Russian president calls the armed men in Crimea "volunteers" protecting the rights of ethnic Russians. In the 1990s, Milosevic used the exact same word to describe similar groups in Bosnia-Herzegovina, which he claimed were protecting ethnic Serbs.

Putin claims that Ukraine's sovereignty should be respected, even as he does everything in his power to undermine it. Likewise, Milosevic paid lip service to Bosnia's territorial integrity, while troops at his command worked to partition it and end its fledgling statehood.

Both leaders use religion to fuel their respective conflicts and justify intervention. Russian media recently reported -- incorrectly -- that the Monastery of the Caves in Kyiv had been damaged. Serbian media in 1992 likewise claimed -- inaccurately -- Serb churches and monasteries had been damaged.

Putin is testing the West's reaction and counting on divisions between Europe and the United States to hobble any coherent and coordinated response, just as Milosevic did 22 years ago.

The eerie similarities extend beyond Putin and Milosevic's rhetoric.

When demonstrators in Kyiv came under sniper fire, few from Bosnia could fail to recall April 6, 1992 -- the day demonstrators in Sarajevo came under sniper fire and the siege of the city began.

Russian media's coverage of the sniper attacks was also a cut-and-paste job from their Serbian counterparts two decades ago: citizens of Kyiv -- like those in Sarajevo -- were shooting at each other.

Russian media has also reported an alleged "refugee crisis," with some 650,000 pouring over the border into Russia. When the Bosnian war began, Serbian media also raised the alarm about refugees pouring over the border.

In both cases, the United Nations debunked the reports. But never mind.

Mobilizing To Hate

Both Serbian and Russian media also relied on false images to illustrate and bolster their claims. Russian media used footage of the heavily traveled border crossing between Poland and Ukraine. Serbian media in 1992 used klix footage of refugees fleeing -- it's just that they were running away from Milosevic’s forces.

The politically and emotionally loaded language Russian media has used to describe the new authorities in Kyiv, dubbing them "fascists" and "anti-Semites," is also reminiscent of Serbia's characterization of its opponents. Croats were characterized as "ustashi" and Bosniaks, or Bosnian Muslims, as "mujahadeen."

This is how wars begin. This is how societies are mobilized to hate. Ordinary citizens are subjected to fear and propaganda eventually eroding the trust in other ethnic groups, other nationalities.

In 1992 Serbs were led to believe that Milosevic was defending and saving their beleaguered nation by "gaining territories and conquering cities." LIkewise, recent polls show that a majority in Russia believe their military is saving Crimea's Russians by annexing the territory.

It is far easier to believe than to ask questions.

There is also an eerie similarity in Putin and Milosevic's respective paths to power.

Both were initially not elected. Putin was named prime minister in September 1999 by Russian President Boris Yeltsin, who also dubbed him his chosen successor. When Yeltsin resigned months later, Putin became acting president.

Likewise, Milosevic's political rise began in 1986 when he was appointed head of the Serbian Communist Party.

The early tenure of each leader was marked by exploitation of an ethnic conflict: in Milosevic's case, Kosovo; in Putin's, Chechnya.

Both established pseudo democracies with tightly controlled state media and fake opposition parties. Both bolstered their legitimacy with mass, "spontaneous" pro-regime rallies. Both used "patriotic" youth organizations -- the "young Socialists" for Milosevic and "Nashi" for Putin -- to harass opponents.

Putin and Milosevic both also ruled societies in which institutions were weak, corruption rife, the rule of law absent, and the security services politically empowered.

But while the parallels between Putin and Milosevic are undeniable, this does not necessarily extend to the way their respective stories will end.

Milosevic was able to pursue his military adventures for "only" eight years, before NATO united against him in Kosovo in 1999 and he was overthrown by a popular revolution a year later.

But Putin enjoys an advantage that Milosevic lacked. Russia, unlike Serbia, is a major geopolitical player with a seat on the UN Security Council, a nuclear power, and a crucial supplier of energy to Europe.

If, without assets like these, Milosevic managed to menace his neighbors for eight years, how long will Putin be able to do so?

tnnt wrote:

vivaldi wrote:
e jebiga sad, kakva crna licemjernost? ta rijec ne postoji nigdje u politici

to mi je novost
ajde dobro, ako želiš upakirati fino onda nedosljednost

vivaldi wrote:
ama kakva crna nedosljednost

vidi prije par sedmica, ustanem u nedelju ujutru znatno ranije nego inace, napravim kafu, otvorim klix i znam da nedeljom tako rano nema nikakvih vijesti sem mozda crne hronike, kad ne lezi vraze doceka me vijest kako americka ambasada snazno osudjuje napad na onaj queer film u kriterionu koji se desio u subotu popodne. U nedelju ujutru!! oni su zorom reagovali ne cekajuci ni policijsko saopstenje niti bilo ciju zvanicnu izjavu.

ali hajde, to je najveca demokratija svijeta i bas je lijepo sto im je toliko stalo do ljudskih prava.

samo ima mali problem. toj istoj americi vec 50 godina je jedan od najvecih saveznika saudija u kojoj je homosexualisam kaznjiv smrcu, cipuju zene, smiju voziti biciklo samo ukrug...ljudska prava uopste ne postoje u njihovom rjecniku.

kako im je ta zemlja veliki saveznik, a nama treniraju demokratiju? zar to nije licemjerje sa dna kace?

hoces li jos primjera licemjerja?

vivaldi wrote: ama kakva crna nedosljednost

vidi prije par sedmica, ustanem u nedelju ujutru znatno ranije nego inace, napravim kafu, otvorim klix i znam da nedeljom tako rano nema nikakvih vijesti sem mozda crne hronike, kad ne lezi vraze doceka me vijest kako americka ambasada snazno osudjuje napad na onaj queer film u kriterionu koji se desio u subotu popodne. U nedelju ujutru!! oni su zorom reagovali ne cekajuci ni policijsko saopstenje niti bilo ciju zvanicnu izjavu.

ali hajde, to je najveca demokratija svijeta i bas je lijepo sto im je toliko stalo do ljudskih prava.

samo ima mali problem. toj istoj americi vec 50 godina je jedan od najvecih saveznika saudija u kojoj je homosexualisam kaznjiv smrcu, cipuju zene, smiju voziti biciklo samo ukrug...ljudska prava uopste ne postoje u njihovom rjecniku.

kako im je ta zemlja veliki saveznik, a nama treniraju demokratiju? zar to nije licemjerje sa dna kace?

hoces li jos primjera licemjerja?