
Obama i SAD (2008-2016)
- corolla02
- Posts: 11255
- Joined: 18/02/2009 22:12
- Location: Light travels faster than sound; that is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak!
- Horoskop: Gemini
- statix
- Posts: 2961
- Joined: 27/08/2009 09:04
- Location: Sarajevo
#5053 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
@rIder
ne mogu doci sebi 
- mofo33
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: 07/04/2008 21:30
- Location: pogresna drzava
#5054 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
a zasto ti je odvratan?ljubav_aha wrote:meni je Obama doslovno odvratan,i to vec pisem od pocetka njegovog mandata
- mofo33
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: 07/04/2008 21:30
- Location: pogresna drzava
#5055 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
pa to sto vam ne odgovara, da prostis!jefferson wrote:A sta to mijenjati molim lijepo?mofo33 wrote:hej, amerikanci!
ko od vas tamo ima pravo glasati na izborima?
pravo mijenjati nesto ili samo pravo na suplju filozofiju po forumima?
lako je imati pravo na glas, a sjediti doma i kritikovati
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zonbirile
- Posts: 11870
- Joined: 09/10/2008 12:06
#5056 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
@ahuseino
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pa rasplet mora doći,ko će štampati dolorese i šta uopšte sa dolarom.Na istek 100g taman će biti vrijednost O-Sem toga napisao si njihovu vjekovnu premisu.Ovi ferceraju da problem stvore,ponude riješenje i riješe problem,usput bogatiji .Znaš i sam koliki su dobici u ovoj krizi,i to istih.Ne kontam kako raja puši foru sa bonusima direktora.Pa svi oni su robovi vlasnika,vlasnik je taj koji daje bonus,logićno se nameće,koliko je dobar vlasnik u svemu.
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pa rasplet mora doći,ko će štampati dolorese i šta uopšte sa dolarom.Na istek 100g taman će biti vrijednost O-Sem toga napisao si njihovu vjekovnu premisu.Ovi ferceraju da problem stvore,ponude riješenje i riješe problem,usput bogatiji .Znaš i sam koliki su dobici u ovoj krizi,i to istih.Ne kontam kako raja puši foru sa bonusima direktora.Pa svi oni su robovi vlasnika,vlasnik je taj koji daje bonus,logićno se nameće,koliko je dobar vlasnik u svemu.
- ljubav_aha
- Posts: 15082
- Joined: 03/04/2008 19:25
- Location: TURKISH COFFEEBATH
#5057 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
vrlo je dvolican , no to i ocekujem od svakog politicara,ali je rodjen za holywood-amofo33 wrote:a zasto ti je odvratan?ljubav_aha wrote:meni je Obama doslovno odvratan,i to vec pisem od pocetka njegovog mandata
- bijelo_dugme
- Posts: 1991
- Joined: 06/06/2007 23:13
- Location: Dodik's Democratic Republic of Srpska (DDRS)
- ljubav_aha
- Posts: 15082
- Joined: 03/04/2008 19:25
- Location: TURKISH COFFEEBATH
#5059 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
upljuvah ekran radi Obame na slici 
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dallton
- Posts: 7739
- Joined: 31/07/2008 08:49
#5060 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
gledao sam malo jucer daily show, zadnje epizode - bila je dobra fora o tome kako je obama pozvao ceo-e najvecih banaka, ljudi se nisu ni pojavili na sastanku, kazu nisu stigli radi magle
jel se samo meni cini ili vama svima obama sve vise izgleda kao lutka u tudjim rukama koja nista nije u stanju da zavrsi? nekad se cini kao da su doveli radi PR razloga, onako da lijepo izgleda ali da se nista bitno ne ucini sto bi poremetilo ravnotezu snaga
jel se samo meni cini ili vama svima obama sve vise izgleda kao lutka u tudjim rukama koja nista nije u stanju da zavrsi? nekad se cini kao da su doveli radi PR razloga, onako da lijepo izgleda ali da se nista bitno ne ucini sto bi poremetilo ravnotezu snaga
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#5061 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
Ako saznajes svoje info iz daily showa onda i ne cude takva rezonovanja.dallton wrote:gledao sam malo jucer daily show, zadnje epizode - bila je dobra fora o tome kako je obama pozvao ceo-e najvecih banaka, ljudi se nisu ni pojavili na sastanku, kazu nisu stigli radi magle![]()
jel se samo meni cini ili vama svima obama sve vise izgleda kao lutka u tudjim rukama koja nista nije u stanju da zavrsi? nekad se cini kao da su doveli radi PR razloga, onako da lijepo izgleda ali da se nista bitno ne ucini sto bi poremetilo ravnotezu snaga
Slusam neki dan NPR Market Place i otprilike je spika da su sve vece banke ili vratile ili u procesu vracanja TARP para. Govorili su i o tome da vlada nista nije dobila od toga jer nisu regulisali banke kad su imali sansu, a one sad hoce sto prije da vrate pare da ne bi bile pod nikakvom kontrolom i uticajem vlade. Te pare su originalno trebale posluziti da se pokrene ekonomija, tako sto ce banke s tim parama odmrznuti davanje zajmova. Medjutim to se nije desilo.
No, pare se vracaju.
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dallton
- Posts: 7739
- Joined: 31/07/2008 08:49
#5062 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
ne dobijam vijesti s daily showa, ali je ipak smijesno...dobro pare se vracaju, jer su se glavni igraci izvukli - al to samo dokazuje ono sto hocu da kazem, obama mora posluziti svrsi spasiti sistem onakav kakav je sad...al kad se usporede rezultati na vanjskom i unutarnjem planu, ja sve vise ne vidim nikakve razlike (osim pr razlike) izmedju njega i ostalih, ako se pod razlikom ne racuna "eto lijepo je sto je predsjednik crnac, to kao dokazuje ljepotu amerike gdje fola svako moze uspjeti...."jeza u ledja wrote:Ako saznajes svoje info iz daily showa onda i ne cude takva rezonovanja.dallton wrote:gledao sam malo jucer daily show, zadnje epizode - bila je dobra fora o tome kako je obama pozvao ceo-e najvecih banaka, ljudi se nisu ni pojavili na sastanku, kazu nisu stigli radi magle![]()
jel se samo meni cini ili vama svima obama sve vise izgleda kao lutka u tudjim rukama koja nista nije u stanju da zavrsi? nekad se cini kao da su doveli radi PR razloga, onako da lijepo izgleda ali da se nista bitno ne ucini sto bi poremetilo ravnotezu snaga
Slusam neki dan NPR Market Place i otprilike je spika da su sve vece banke ili vratile ili u procesu vracanja TARP para. Govorili su i o tome da vlada nista nije dobila od toga jer nisu regulisali banke kad su imali sansu, a one sad hoce sto prije da vrate pare da ne bi bile pod nikakvom kontrolom i uticajem vlade. Te pare su originalno trebale posluziti da se pokrene ekonomija, tako sto ce banke s tim parama odmrznuti davanje zajmova. Medjutim to se nije desilo.
No, pare se vracaju.
podsjeca me na film olivera stona o richardu nixonu, gdje nixon na sastanku s biznismenima kaze "mene je izabrao narod" a oni odgovaraju " to se moze promjeniti - u momentu" , drugim rijecima mora se znati ko kosi ko vodu nosi, u ovom slucaju cini se da je obama vodonosac
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#5063 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
I opet usporedba sa necim s televizije....dallton wrote:
ne dobijam vijesti s daily showa, ali je ipak smijesno...dobro pare se vracaju, jer su se glavni igraci izvukli - al to samo dokazuje ono sto hocu da kazem, obama mora posluziti svrsi spasiti sistem onakav kakav je sad...al kad se usporede rezultati na vanjskom i unutarnjem planu, ja sve vise ne vidim nikakve razlike (osim pr razlike) izmedju njega i ostalih, ako se pod razlikom ne racuna "eto lijepo je sto je predsjednik crnac, to kao dokazuje ljepotu amerike gdje fola svako moze uspjeti...."
podsjeca me na film olivera stona o richardu nixonu, gdje nixon na sastanku s biznismenima kaze "mene je izabrao narod" a oni odgovaraju " to se moze promjeniti - u momentu" , drugim rijecima mora se znati ko kosi ko vodu nosi, u ovom slucaju cini se da je obama vodonosac
Obamina 'svrha' je da izvuce Ameriku iz govana u koju ju je uvuklo 8 godina Busheva rezima. Sve sto sada gledamo je pokusaj da se ta kriza rijesi sto prije i sto bolje. Bez obzira na to sto na ovoj temi polako pocinje da preovladava zavjerenicko-marionetska ekipa, koja i dalje ne moze da provari sistem i smisao demokratskog procesa, niti da shvati da se neko ne moze "dovesti na vlast" bez podrske glasaca, to ne znaci da je to stvarno tako.
Da nije, odnosno da na vlasti imamo marionete, pa valjda bi bilo lakse zadrzati vladajucu elitu koja je tu bila i do sad?
Jos jednom ponavljam, predsjednik Amerike je pod daleko manjim pritiskom lobija od kongresmena (pogotovo senatora). Ako cete upirati prstom na uticaj lobija - osvrnite se na njih i na ono to oni govore.
PS: Valjda bi nam bilo bolje sa Mekkejnom, sta li?
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dallton
- Posts: 7739
- Joined: 31/07/2008 08:49
#5064 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
mislim da si profulao poentu, al hajd...a i inace tvoji postovi odisu ogromnim "povjerenjem" u "demokratski proces", a rjecnik ti podsjeca na ljubitelja politicke teorije nazalost razvedene od stvarnosti...jeza u ledja wrote:I opet usporedba sa necim s televizije....dallton wrote:
ne dobijam vijesti s daily showa, ali je ipak smijesno...dobro pare se vracaju, jer su se glavni igraci izvukli - al to samo dokazuje ono sto hocu da kazem, obama mora posluziti svrsi spasiti sistem onakav kakav je sad...al kad se usporede rezultati na vanjskom i unutarnjem planu, ja sve vise ne vidim nikakve razlike (osim pr razlike) izmedju njega i ostalih, ako se pod razlikom ne racuna "eto lijepo je sto je predsjednik crnac, to kao dokazuje ljepotu amerike gdje fola svako moze uspjeti...."
podsjeca me na film olivera stona o richardu nixonu, gdje nixon na sastanku s biznismenima kaze "mene je izabrao narod" a oni odgovaraju " to se moze promjeniti - u momentu" , drugim rijecima mora se znati ko kosi ko vodu nosi, u ovom slucaju cini se da je obama vodonosac
Obamina 'svrha' je da izvuce Ameriku iz govana u koju ju je uvuklo 8 godina Busheva rezima. Sve sto sada gledamo je pokusaj da se ta kriza rijesi sto prije i sto bolje. Bez obzira na to sto na ovoj temi polako pocinje da preovladava zavjerenicko-marionetska ekipa, koja i dalje ne moze da provari sistem i smisao demokratskog procesa, niti da shvati da se neko ne moze "dovesti na vlast" bez podrske glasaca, to ne znaci da je to stvarno tako.
Da nije, odnosno da na vlasti imamo marionete, pa valjda bi bilo lakse zadrzati vladajucu elitu koja je tu bila i do sad?
Jos jednom ponavljam, predsjednik Amerike je pod daleko manjim pritiskom lobija od kongresmena (pogotovo senatora). Ako cete upirati prstom na uticaj lobija - osvrnite se na njih i na ono to oni govore.
PS: Valjda bi nam bilo bolje sa Mekkejnom, sta li?
hm, da je predsjednik pod manjim utjecajem lobija od kongresa generalno je formalno tacno, ali ne znamo koliko je to tacno u praksi, aipac bi bio dobar primjer...i ne bi bilo bolje s mekejnom, ono sto govorimo jeste da bi nam bilo isto - doduse cijeli americki sistem je i osmisljen tako da se sprijece bilo kakve brze promjene nagore ili nabolje
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#5065 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
dallton wrote:
mislim da si profulao poentu, al hajd...a i inace tvoji postovi odisu ogromnim "povjerenjem" u "demokratski proces", a rjecnik ti podsjeca na ljubitelja politicke teorije nazalost razvedene od stvarnosti...
hm, da je predsjednik pod manjim utjecajem lobija od kongresa generalno je formalno tacno, ali ne znamo koliko je to tacno u praksi, aipac bi bio dobar primjer...i ne bi bilo bolje s mekejnom, ono sto govorimo jeste da bi nam bilo isto - doduse cijeli americki sistem je i osmisljen tako da se sprijece bilo kakve brze promjene nagore ili nabolje
Ne. Ti si taj koji fula poentu. Poenta je da na jednoj strani imas ljude koji su zapoceli dva rata, koji su doveli zemlju ivicu ekonomskog kolapsa, i koji su od zemlje napravili demona u ocima vecina svijeta - sve ono sto se sada pokusava kako tako ispraviti. Pricas o poenti? E, to je poenta.
Sto se tice mojih stanovista o "demokratskom procesu", ja ne gajim iluzije da na vrh izbijaju oni koji su podupirani velikim novcima. No, da bi se ti novci "zasluzili" trebas postici neku popularnost, a nju postizes svojom pamecu i umijecem. U konacnici - na izbore izlaze gradjani koji imaju svoj mozak i biraju onog koji misle da im odgovara. Ko misli da je taj proces u ovakvom okruzenju sklon masovnom laziranju njemu nema pomoci, u stvari ne znam zasto bi se uopste zanimao za ovakve stvari?
Ako stvarno shvatas da je sistem dizajniran tako da se promjene desavaju sporo, onda cemu toliko ibrecenje?
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#5066 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
Jebo aipac, mislis da su oni veliki igraci u odnosu na kojekakve naftne i ugljene lobije, banke, osiguravajuce firme, farmaceutske kompanije, itd??dallton wrote: hm, da je predsjednik pod manjim utjecajem lobija od kongresa generalno je formalno tacno, ali ne znamo koliko je to tacno u praksi, aipac bi bio dobar primjer...
Jedna takva firma, ili skup njih, moze sav svoj novac uloziti u jednog senatora, recimo Liebermana, i preko njega pucati kontru na sve ono sto Kongres pokusava uraditi. Predsjednikov mandat je 4 ili 8 godina, ovi senatori u foteljama budu decenijama. Njihovo je glasacko tijelo lakse bombardirati jer je deset i vise puta manje.
Sve ovo sto se desava zadnjih mjeseci u Kongresu pokazuje upravo to. Niko da izadje i kaze - "lazu vas, svaki dan vas lazu, lazu, lazu, filaju glupostima o taksama, kradji vaseg novca, teroristima, bankama, i cemu vec sve ne..."
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sezammm
- Posts: 28
- Joined: 30/01/2009 05:19
#5067 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
I jedan i drugi manje vise fula poentujeza u ledja wrote:dallton wrote:
mislim da si profulao poentu, al hajd...a i inace tvoji postovi odisu ogromnim "povjerenjem" u "demokratski proces", a rjecnik ti podsjeca na ljubitelja politicke teorije nazalost razvedene od stvarnosti...
hm, da je predsjednik pod manjim utjecajem lobija od kongresa generalno je formalno tacno, ali ne znamo koliko je to tacno u praksi, aipac bi bio dobar primjer...i ne bi bilo bolje s mekejnom, ono sto govorimo jeste da bi nam bilo isto - doduse cijeli americki sistem je i osmisljen tako da se sprijece bilo kakve brze promjene nagore ili nabolje
Ne. Ti si taj koji fula poentu. Poenta je da na jednoj strani imas ljude koji su zapoceli dva rata, koji su doveli zemlju ivicu ekonomskog kolapsa, i koji su od zemlje napravili demona u ocima vecina svijeta - sve ono sto se sada pokusava kako tako ispraviti. Pricas o poenti? E, to je poenta.
Sto se tice mojih stanovista o "demokratskom procesu", ja ne gajim iluzije da na vrh izbijaju oni koji su podupirani velikim novcima. No, da bi se ti novci "zasluzili" trebas postici neku popularnost, a nju postizes svojom pamecu i umijecem. U konacnici - na izbore izlaze gradjani koji imaju svoj mozak i biraju onog koji misle da im odgovara. Ko misli da je taj proces u ovakvom okruzenju sklon masovnom laziranju njemu nema pomoci, u stvari ne znam zasto bi se uopste zanimao za ovakve stvari?
Ako stvarno shvatas da je sistem dizajniran tako da se promjene desavaju sporo, onda cemu toliko ibrecenje?
Glasao sam za Obamu cisto iz razloga da Amerika malo odmori od republikanaca,ratova itd..
Obama je za godinu dana udostrucio deficit,prevario svoje glasace za Irak,Afganistan,fulio u Izraelsko-palestinskim pregovorima,broj ne zaposleni skoro dosegao brojku 10%,health care reform skoro dozivjela fijasko,itd..
Pobjede za njeg ni na vidiku,popularnost mu je 40%,a cetri mjeseca u nazad bila je 67%,hm
Lako je se samo vaditi na fore,republikanci kvi za sve itd...tacno je da su u'rali dosta toga ali i vi tkz demokrati sa komunistom na celu grabite sigurnim koracima (ne)popularnosti tako da je vec sad sigurno da cete postati opozicija za godinu dana i nesto vise,a za tri cete se sjecati senata i prvoga crnoga americkog predsjednika.
Amerikanci NECE da vlast imam ikakvog uticaja u njihovim privatnim sverama zivota,privatno vlasnistvo je za njih zakon i sistem a crkva mjesto gdje se nedjeljom obavezno okupljaju a poslje toga sljedi NFL.
Pokusaj Obame i ljevog(socijalistickog)krila da mjenja sistem je politicko samoubistvo demokrata i predsjednika.
To su pokusali preko novca pozajmljenog bankama,medjutim banke su vratile taj novac i ne vjerovatnom brzom roku i stavile do znanja i Obami i G....tu da ne zele nikakav njihov uticaj i tacka.
Da je imao namjeru da preuzme banke pokazao je to nedjelju-dvje prije upozoravajuci ih da nema bonusa ,
onda je trazio da banke plasiraju sad svoj novac(krediti)da bi pomogli ekonomiji...niko ga ne benda ni dva posto
Amerikom vladaji razno razni lobiji(novac),novac opet imaju bjeli ljudi(90% R-CO i to onih okorjeli)oni su stvarna vlast i ne misle da je se u skorijoj buducnosti odreknu.
Ne pripadam ni jednim ni drugima ali i vas ce biti tesko trpjeti 4 god a kamoli tek 8 da se mora
Obama je jedino uspio da koliko toliko popravi imidz Amerike vani
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dallton
- Posts: 7739
- Joined: 31/07/2008 08:49
#5068 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
ne ibretim se ni sekunde, nego samo pokazujem koliko su i mimo formalnog politickog sistema i vanjskih prica o ljepotama, snage unutar amerike koje drze ameriku u stanju kakvo jeste jake ne zato sto kao fola manipulisu narod, nego zato sto narod tako zeli...samo je interesantno gledati koliko je obama slab da to promjeni, sto ti govori koliko su svi ostali jaki i koliko se narodu ovakav sistem svidja i pored navodnih velikih "zalbi"jeza u ledja wrote:dallton wrote:
mislim da si profulao poentu, al hajd...a i inace tvoji postovi odisu ogromnim "povjerenjem" u "demokratski proces", a rjecnik ti podsjeca na ljubitelja politicke teorije nazalost razvedene od stvarnosti...
hm, da je predsjednik pod manjim utjecajem lobija od kongresa generalno je formalno tacno, ali ne znamo koliko je to tacno u praksi, aipac bi bio dobar primjer...i ne bi bilo bolje s mekejnom, ono sto govorimo jeste da bi nam bilo isto - doduse cijeli americki sistem je i osmisljen tako da se sprijece bilo kakve brze promjene nagore ili nabolje
Ne. Ti si taj koji fula poentu. Poenta je da na jednoj strani imas ljude koji su zapoceli dva rata, koji su doveli zemlju ivicu ekonomskog kolapsa, i koji su od zemlje napravili demona u ocima vecina svijeta - sve ono sto se sada pokusava kako tako ispraviti. Pricas o poenti? E, to je poenta.
Sto se tice mojih stanovista o "demokratskom procesu", ja ne gajim iluzije da na vrh izbijaju oni koji su podupirani velikim novcima. No, da bi se ti novci "zasluzili" trebas postici neku popularnost, a nju postizes svojom pamecu i umijecem. U konacnici - na izbore izlaze gradjani koji imaju svoj mozak i biraju onog koji misle da im odgovara. Ko misli da je taj proces u ovakvom okruzenju sklon masovnom laziranju njemu nema pomoci, u stvari ne znam zasto bi se uopste zanimao za ovakve stvari?
Ako stvarno shvatas da je sistem dizajniran tako da se promjene desavaju sporo, onda cemu toliko ibrecenje?
sto se tice lobija unutarnjih imas ih mali milion, aipac sam samo iznio kao jedan od primjera jer je vezan za vanjsku politiku (imas tu recimo jos i saudijce, grke, armene, neki od njih jaci od aipaca samo sto su ovi zadnji postali popularniji u javnosti itd..) - na unutarnjem planu od aipaca je jace npr. udruzenje farmaceutske industrije to se podrzaumjeva...
ovo da je bivsa vlast uvela tu daleku zemlju preko okeana u dva rata, pa je fola pala ekonomija i kao doslo je do "demoniziranja" amerike vani (jel to kao prije amerika bila omiljena u npr. latinskoj americi ili na bliskom istoku?) nije nista narocito novo - radili su sve sto je radila i vlast prije njih, jer nemaju sta puno da izgube...eto sad amerika ce svakako izgubiti te ratove na bliskom istoku, bit ce krize ekonomske, itd. - al sta ce u krajnjoj liniji biti gubitak ukoliko nista ne postignu na blisko istoku? nista pod milim bogom, samo ce se povuci kao i iz vijetnama i dovidjenja prijatno, jedino moraju pozuriti da konsolidiraju alternativne izvore energije i to je to , to sto ce nekih 40-50 hiljada amera poginuti ovdje ili ondje na nekom od boga zaboravljenom dijelu svijeta to nikome nista nece nauditi ni kratkorocno ni dugorocno....
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zonbirile
- Posts: 11870
- Joined: 09/10/2008 12:06
#5069 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
cccc,@jeza u leđa,nemoj se tako zaletati,pa opet tvrditi kako ti nisi to rekao ni mislio.Moraš samo obrnuti postavku i sve je u redu.Naprimjer,veliki igrači su se izvukli,obratno,oni su krizu kreirali ne da bi se izvukli,nego još više napljačkali.Moraš raditi na tome da shvatiš procese,a kada ti pukne pred očima uvidječeš koja je dileja Huso.Samo si odgovori kome to SAD duguje 14 triliona $.Pa zar vjerovnici da ne postave svog čovjeka od 1. do 44.
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#5070 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
Danas je Senat odobrio health-care bill, sa minimalnim brojem glasova od 60 (da se blokira fillibuster). Sad treba jos da se usaglase sa HoR da bi Obama mogao potpisati nekad u februaru.
Ovaj zakon o zdravstvenom osiguranju ce biti najveci socijalni zakon donesen u zadnjih nekoliko decenija.
S obzirom koliko se sralo o razudjenosti zakona, meni je ovo jos i dobro. Umjesto 'public option' imaju prakticno istu stvar - 'nonprofite private plans overseen by the federal govermnent". Imaju obavezu svima da isti placaju, imaju subvencije za siromasne, i kazne za one koji ne placaju. Ukinuli su i 'pre-existing condition' uslov. Jedino se svadjaju oko toga kako ce platiti, sto se obicne raje tice svakako im uzimaju pare za raznorazne gluposti...
Za pocetak je dobro, s obzirom kakve barabe sjede u Senatu. Na ovo se u buducnosti moze nadogradjivati, ako za to bude podrske.
Senate approves health care reform bill
Washington (CNN) -- The Senate passed a $871 billion health care reform bill Thursday morning, handing President Obama a Christmas Eve victory on his top domestic priority.
The bill passed in a 60-39 party line vote after months of heated partisan debate. Every member of the Democratic caucus backed the measure; every Republican opposed it.
Republican Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky -- a staunch opponent of the bill -- was the lone senator to miss Thursday's vote.
Should it become law, the measure would constitute the biggest expansion of federal health care guarantees since the enactment of Medicare and Medicaid more than four decades ago. It is expected to extend insurance coverage to 30 million additional Americans.
"We are now finally poised to deliver on the promise of real, meaningful health insurance reform that will bring additional security and stability to the American people," Obama said shortly after the vote.
"If passed, this will be the most important piece of social legislation since the Social Security Act passed in the 1930s."
The bill now must be merged with a $1 trillion plan approved by the House of Representatives in November. Democrats hope to have a bill ready for Obama's signature before the president's State of the Union address early next year.
Senate Republicans failed to stop the bill despite utilizing almost every weapon in their legislative arsenal. GOP leaders have repeatedly warned the measure will raise taxes while doing little to slow spiraling health costs.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, was forced to cut multiple deals in recent weeks to ensure the support of every member of his traditionally fractious caucus. Top Democrats needed the backing of all 60 members in three key procedural votes over the past four days to break a GOP filibuster.
Final passage of the measure, in contrast, only requires a bare majority in the 100-member chamber.
iReport: Share your thoughts on health care reform
An exhausted Senate adjourned for the holidays shortly after passing the measure.
The health care debate is "about life and death in America," Reid said shortly before Thursday's first vote. "It's a question of morality, of right and wrong. It's about human suffering. And given the chance to relieve this suffering, we must take this chance."
Reid ripped the Republicans for their unanimous opposition to the bill, saying he was "sorry to say that for the first time in American history, a political party has chosen to stand on the sidelines rather than participate in great -- and greatly needed -- social change."
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, argued it is "clear that even many of the people who support this bill with their votes don't like it." Otherwise, he claimed, "they wouldn't be rushing it through Congress on Christmas Eve."
"There is widespread opposition to this monstrosity," he said. "This fight isn't over."
Passage of the Senate health care bill, which is projected to cut the federal deficit by $132 billion over the next decade, signaled majority agreement in both chambers of Congress on a broad range of changes affecting every American's coverage.
Among other things, the House and Senate have agreed to subsidize insurance for a family of four making up to roughly $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level.
They also have agreed to create health insurance exchanges designed to make it easier for small businesses, the self-employed and the unemployed to pool resources and purchase less expensive coverage. Both the House plan and the Senate bill would eventually limit total out-of-pocket expenses and prevent insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Insurers would also be barred from charging higher premiums based on a person's gender or medical history. However, both bills allow insurance companies to charge higher premiums for older customers.
Medicaid would be significantly expanded under both proposals. The House bill would extend coverage to individuals earning up to 150 percent of the poverty level, or roughly $33,000 for a family of four. The Senate plan ensures coverage to those earning up to 133 percent of the poverty level, or just over $29,000 for a family of four.
Major differences between the more liberal House bill and the more conservative Senate bill will now be the focus of the conference committee that will try to merge them.
Get help with reading through the bills
One of the biggest divides is over how to pay for the plans. The House package is financed through a combination of a tax surcharge on wealthy Americans and new Medicare spending reductions.
Specifically, individuals with annual incomes over $500,000 -- as well as families earning more than $1 million -- would face a 5.4 percent income tax surcharge.
The Senate bill also cuts Medicare by roughly $500 billion. But instead of an income tax surcharge on the wealthy, it would impose a 40 percent tax on insurance companies that provide what are called "Cadillac" health plans valued at more than $8,500 for individuals and $23,000 for families.
Proponents of the tax on high-end plans argue it's one of the most effective ways to curb medical inflation. However, House Democrats oppose taxing such policies because it would hurt union members who traded higher salaries for more generous health benefits.
Asked in an NPR interview Wednesday if he prefers the income tax surcharge or the tax on high-end plans, Obama predicted the final bill will probably end up with "a little bit of both."
"Cadillac plans ... don't make people healthier, but just take more money out of their pockets," he said.
The Senate bill also would hike Medicare payroll taxes on families making over $250,000; the House bill does not.
Another key sticking point is the dispute over a public option. The House plan includes a public option; the more conservative Senate plan would instead create nonprofit private plans overseen by the federal government.
Given the reality of the 60-vote threshold in the Senate, however, there hasn't been much serious discussion among House leaders about pushing hard to keep the public option.
The Senate "tried to see if they had support for it. There isn't. That's the reality," a top House Democratic leadership aide told CNN. "I think a lot of people are coming to terms with that, and I don't know how productive it would be to bring it out again."
Individuals under both plans would be required to purchase coverage, but the House bill includes more stringent penalties for most of those who fail to comply. The House bill would impose a fine of up to 2.5 percent of an individual's income. The Senate plan would require individuals to purchase health insurance coverage or face a fine of up to $750 or 2 percent of his or her income, whichever is greater. Both versions include a hardship exemption for poorer Americans.
Employers face a much stricter mandate under the House legislation, which would require companies with a payroll of more than $500,000 to provide insurance or pay a penalty of up to 8 percent of their payroll.
The Senate bill would require companies with more than 50 employees to pay a fee of up to $750 per worker if any of its employees rely on government subsidies to purchase coverage.
Abortion also has been a sticking point for both chambers. A late compromise with Catholic and other conservatives in the House led to the adoption of an amendment banning most abortion coverage from the public option. It would also prohibit abortion coverage in private policies available in the exchange to people receiving federal subsidies.
Senate provisions, made more conservative than initially drafted in order to satisfy Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson, would allow states to choose whether to ban abortion coverage in plans offered in the exchanges. Individuals purchasing plans through the exchanges would have to pay for abortion coverage out of their own funds.
Nelson said on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday that he would withdraw his support if the final bill gets changed too much from the Senate version
Ovaj zakon o zdravstvenom osiguranju ce biti najveci socijalni zakon donesen u zadnjih nekoliko decenija.
S obzirom koliko se sralo o razudjenosti zakona, meni je ovo jos i dobro. Umjesto 'public option' imaju prakticno istu stvar - 'nonprofite private plans overseen by the federal govermnent". Imaju obavezu svima da isti placaju, imaju subvencije za siromasne, i kazne za one koji ne placaju. Ukinuli su i 'pre-existing condition' uslov. Jedino se svadjaju oko toga kako ce platiti, sto se obicne raje tice svakako im uzimaju pare za raznorazne gluposti...
Za pocetak je dobro, s obzirom kakve barabe sjede u Senatu. Na ovo se u buducnosti moze nadogradjivati, ako za to bude podrske.
Senate approves health care reform bill
Washington (CNN) -- The Senate passed a $871 billion health care reform bill Thursday morning, handing President Obama a Christmas Eve victory on his top domestic priority.
The bill passed in a 60-39 party line vote after months of heated partisan debate. Every member of the Democratic caucus backed the measure; every Republican opposed it.
Republican Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky -- a staunch opponent of the bill -- was the lone senator to miss Thursday's vote.
Should it become law, the measure would constitute the biggest expansion of federal health care guarantees since the enactment of Medicare and Medicaid more than four decades ago. It is expected to extend insurance coverage to 30 million additional Americans.
"We are now finally poised to deliver on the promise of real, meaningful health insurance reform that will bring additional security and stability to the American people," Obama said shortly after the vote.
"If passed, this will be the most important piece of social legislation since the Social Security Act passed in the 1930s."
The bill now must be merged with a $1 trillion plan approved by the House of Representatives in November. Democrats hope to have a bill ready for Obama's signature before the president's State of the Union address early next year.
Senate Republicans failed to stop the bill despite utilizing almost every weapon in their legislative arsenal. GOP leaders have repeatedly warned the measure will raise taxes while doing little to slow spiraling health costs.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, was forced to cut multiple deals in recent weeks to ensure the support of every member of his traditionally fractious caucus. Top Democrats needed the backing of all 60 members in three key procedural votes over the past four days to break a GOP filibuster.
Final passage of the measure, in contrast, only requires a bare majority in the 100-member chamber.
iReport: Share your thoughts on health care reform
An exhausted Senate adjourned for the holidays shortly after passing the measure.
The health care debate is "about life and death in America," Reid said shortly before Thursday's first vote. "It's a question of morality, of right and wrong. It's about human suffering. And given the chance to relieve this suffering, we must take this chance."
Reid ripped the Republicans for their unanimous opposition to the bill, saying he was "sorry to say that for the first time in American history, a political party has chosen to stand on the sidelines rather than participate in great -- and greatly needed -- social change."
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, argued it is "clear that even many of the people who support this bill with their votes don't like it." Otherwise, he claimed, "they wouldn't be rushing it through Congress on Christmas Eve."
"There is widespread opposition to this monstrosity," he said. "This fight isn't over."
Passage of the Senate health care bill, which is projected to cut the federal deficit by $132 billion over the next decade, signaled majority agreement in both chambers of Congress on a broad range of changes affecting every American's coverage.
Among other things, the House and Senate have agreed to subsidize insurance for a family of four making up to roughly $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level.
They also have agreed to create health insurance exchanges designed to make it easier for small businesses, the self-employed and the unemployed to pool resources and purchase less expensive coverage. Both the House plan and the Senate bill would eventually limit total out-of-pocket expenses and prevent insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Insurers would also be barred from charging higher premiums based on a person's gender or medical history. However, both bills allow insurance companies to charge higher premiums for older customers.
Medicaid would be significantly expanded under both proposals. The House bill would extend coverage to individuals earning up to 150 percent of the poverty level, or roughly $33,000 for a family of four. The Senate plan ensures coverage to those earning up to 133 percent of the poverty level, or just over $29,000 for a family of four.
Major differences between the more liberal House bill and the more conservative Senate bill will now be the focus of the conference committee that will try to merge them.
Get help with reading through the bills
One of the biggest divides is over how to pay for the plans. The House package is financed through a combination of a tax surcharge on wealthy Americans and new Medicare spending reductions.
Specifically, individuals with annual incomes over $500,000 -- as well as families earning more than $1 million -- would face a 5.4 percent income tax surcharge.
The Senate bill also cuts Medicare by roughly $500 billion. But instead of an income tax surcharge on the wealthy, it would impose a 40 percent tax on insurance companies that provide what are called "Cadillac" health plans valued at more than $8,500 for individuals and $23,000 for families.
Proponents of the tax on high-end plans argue it's one of the most effective ways to curb medical inflation. However, House Democrats oppose taxing such policies because it would hurt union members who traded higher salaries for more generous health benefits.
Asked in an NPR interview Wednesday if he prefers the income tax surcharge or the tax on high-end plans, Obama predicted the final bill will probably end up with "a little bit of both."
"Cadillac plans ... don't make people healthier, but just take more money out of their pockets," he said.
The Senate bill also would hike Medicare payroll taxes on families making over $250,000; the House bill does not.
Another key sticking point is the dispute over a public option. The House plan includes a public option; the more conservative Senate plan would instead create nonprofit private plans overseen by the federal government.
Given the reality of the 60-vote threshold in the Senate, however, there hasn't been much serious discussion among House leaders about pushing hard to keep the public option.
The Senate "tried to see if they had support for it. There isn't. That's the reality," a top House Democratic leadership aide told CNN. "I think a lot of people are coming to terms with that, and I don't know how productive it would be to bring it out again."
Individuals under both plans would be required to purchase coverage, but the House bill includes more stringent penalties for most of those who fail to comply. The House bill would impose a fine of up to 2.5 percent of an individual's income. The Senate plan would require individuals to purchase health insurance coverage or face a fine of up to $750 or 2 percent of his or her income, whichever is greater. Both versions include a hardship exemption for poorer Americans.
Employers face a much stricter mandate under the House legislation, which would require companies with a payroll of more than $500,000 to provide insurance or pay a penalty of up to 8 percent of their payroll.
The Senate bill would require companies with more than 50 employees to pay a fee of up to $750 per worker if any of its employees rely on government subsidies to purchase coverage.
Abortion also has been a sticking point for both chambers. A late compromise with Catholic and other conservatives in the House led to the adoption of an amendment banning most abortion coverage from the public option. It would also prohibit abortion coverage in private policies available in the exchange to people receiving federal subsidies.
Senate provisions, made more conservative than initially drafted in order to satisfy Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson, would allow states to choose whether to ban abortion coverage in plans offered in the exchanges. Individuals purchasing plans through the exchanges would have to pay for abortion coverage out of their own funds.
Nelson said on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday that he would withdraw his support if the final bill gets changed too much from the Senate version
- ljubav_aha
- Posts: 15082
- Joined: 03/04/2008 19:25
- Location: TURKISH COFFEEBATH
#5071 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
" but turning the bill into law remains uncertain."
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
- ljubav_aha
- Posts: 15082
- Joined: 03/04/2008 19:25
- Location: TURKISH COFFEEBATH
#5073 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
nist' et' onako' sam' da kazem
hajde da vidimo kako ce se dugo cekati,mozda jos narednih 70 i nekih godina,otkad je ,znaci ,doslovno prvi put raspravljano o zdrastvenom sistemu u SAD
hajde da vidimo kako ce se dugo cekati,mozda jos narednih 70 i nekih godina,otkad je ,znaci ,doslovno prvi put raspravljano o zdrastvenom sistemu u SAD
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50270
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#5074 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
Vidjecemo, ako ne potpisu djaba sve ovo.ljubav_aha wrote:nist' et' onako' sam' da kazem![]()
hajde da vidimo kako ce se dugo cekati,mozda jos narednih 70 i nekih godina,otkad je ,znaci ,doslovno prvi put raspravljano o zdrastvenom sistemu u SAD
No, s obzirom na onolike polemike i onoliko lobiranje i na minimalan broj glasova i ovo sto su do sada napravili je bar neki napredak. Da bi bill postao zakon, pogotovo ovako krupan zakon, mora proci kroz sve ove stepenice, da bi se na kraju nasao pred Obaminim penkalom.
Ako ne potpisu, jeste, onda kao da nista nisu ni uradili. Vidjecemo...
- kiky
- Posts: 4725
- Joined: 13/02/2008 13:20
#5075 Re: President Barack Hussein Obama!!!
prave patriote su uvijek na patriotskim temama ...
jel vam drago što je ovo usvojeno ???? .....
jel vam drago što je ovo usvojeno ???? .....

