Ne, nego je "stvarnom" imaginarna komponenta jednaka nuli. Nisu to dakle dvije linije, nego jedan prostor.
Imas dakle dvije dimenzije. Najcesci primjer za paralelu je zemlja.
Imaginarano vrijeme zamjenjuje vrijeme kao komponentu prostor vremena.
The three directions in space, and the one direction of imaginary time, make up what is called a Euclidean space-time. I don't think anyone can picture a four dimensional curve space. But it is not too difficult to visualise a two dimensional surface, like a saddle, or the surface of a football.
NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
-
sistem
- Posts: 650
- Joined: 04/06/2008 19:09
#477 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
sacekajte da herschel & planck posalju neke rezultate, mozda cete i vi i hawking promijeniti misljenje nakon njih 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123956.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123956.htm
Planck has a different goal. It will answer fundamental questions about how the universe came to be, and how it will change in the future. It will look back in time to just 400,000 years after our universe exploded into existence nearly 14 billion years ago in an event known as the Big Bang. ...
-
mark II
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 12/03/2009 08:23
#478 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Mi to vrijeme ne doživljavamo u uobičajenom smislu, ali ono prema njemu postoji takvo kakvo jeste u stvarnosti - imaginarno je nazvano jer ga mi ne doživljavamo u klasičnom smislu, ali ono teče u pozadini, ima ga dakle:
"This is called imaginary time, because it is not the kind of time we normally experience. But in a sense, it is just as real, as what we call real time."
Mi ne živimo u imaginarnom vremenu, već stvarnom, ali imaginarno je stvarno jer "teče", jer se odvija, ali ne kao stvarno i mi ga ne možemo doživjeti - no prema njemu ono postoji i oduvijek je tu, presijeca stvarno okomito: "This says that in the imaginary time direction, space-time is finite in extent, but doesn't have any boundary or edge (jer je okruglo kao zemlja po njemu - hulahop univerzum). The predictions of the no boundary proposal seem to agree with observation. The no boundary hypothesis also predicts that the universe will eventually collapse again. However, the contracting phase, will not have the opposite arrow of time, to the expanding phase." Zašto?????? Zato što imaginarno vrijeme već teče suprotno od prostora, pa kada kolabira neće ići u "suprotnom smjeru" ka kraju vremena, da stvarnog, da našeg iskustvenog, ali ne imaginarnog onog što ide u "pozadini", dakle suprotno od prostora.
"This is called imaginary time, because it is not the kind of time we normally experience. But in a sense, it is just as real, as what we call real time."
Mi ne živimo u imaginarnom vremenu, već stvarnom, ali imaginarno je stvarno jer "teče", jer se odvija, ali ne kao stvarno i mi ga ne možemo doživjeti - no prema njemu ono postoji i oduvijek je tu, presijeca stvarno okomito: "This says that in the imaginary time direction, space-time is finite in extent, but doesn't have any boundary or edge (jer je okruglo kao zemlja po njemu - hulahop univerzum). The predictions of the no boundary proposal seem to agree with observation. The no boundary hypothesis also predicts that the universe will eventually collapse again. However, the contracting phase, will not have the opposite arrow of time, to the expanding phase." Zašto?????? Zato što imaginarno vrijeme već teče suprotno od prostora, pa kada kolabira neće ići u "suprotnom smjeru" ka kraju vremena, da stvarnog, da našeg iskustvenog, ali ne imaginarnog onog što ide u "pozadini", dakle suprotno od prostora.
-
mark II
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 12/03/2009 08:23
#479 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Da, sve su to pokušaji da se okonča teorijska fizika i dođe do konačne teorije. Ali mislim da je Hawking u pravu kada veli da i kada se približimo konačnoj teoriji, kada i dođemo do nje, mada se možda desi da nećemo, i tada će ostati ista pitanja i nikada se neće desiti da se "ugasi filozofija i teoretska fizika". Iako Planck i Herschel posmatraju, možda ne mogu vidjeti "sve što se treba vidjeti" - govorim o 96% tamne materije i energije, koju niko još uvijek ne može skontati. Mislim da smo još daleko od konačne teorije, i mislim da nije dovoljno vidjeti samo ono što možemo sada, pa makar i tako daleko, gotovo do samog Velikog praska, ako je "proračun o starosti tačan", da bi mogli dati konačnu teoriju. No, vidjet ćemo, svakako da je uzbudljivo ovoj raji koja učestvuje u tim programima.sistem wrote:sacekajte da herschel & planck posalju neke rezultate, mozda cete i vi i hawking promijeniti misljenje nakon njih
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123956.htmPlanck has a different goal. It will answer fundamental questions about how the universe came to be, and how it will change in the future. It will look back in time to just 400,000 years after our universe exploded into existence nearly 14 billion years ago in an event known as the Big Bang. ...
-
madner
- Posts: 57524
- Joined: 09/08/2004 16:35
#480 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Ne, mi zivimo u imaginarnom vremenu. Imaginarno vrijeme ukljucuje i stvarno.
Skup imaginarnih brojeva ukljucuje skup realnih brojeva. Imaginarno vrijeme ukljucuje stvarno vrijeme.
Tvoje tumacenje se jednostavno ne poklapa sa drugim jer poceo si iznositi samo svoje misljenje.
The three directions in space, and the one direction of imaginary time, make up what is called a Euclidean space-time. I don't think anyone can picture a four dimensional curve space. But it is not too difficult to visualise a two dimensional surface, like a saddle, or the surface of a football.
Skup imaginarnih brojeva ukljucuje skup realnih brojeva. Imaginarno vrijeme ukljucuje stvarno vrijeme.
Tvoje tumacenje se jednostavno ne poklapa sa drugim jer poceo si iznositi samo svoje misljenje.
The three directions in space, and the one direction of imaginary time, make up what is called a Euclidean space-time. I don't think anyone can picture a four dimensional curve space. But it is not too difficult to visualise a two dimensional surface, like a saddle, or the surface of a football.
-
bordo gandalf
- Posts: 10213
- Joined: 15/05/2009 12:07
- Location: Mi smo Saraj'vo, izvolite se braniti
- Grijem se na: Gree Hansol 12
#481 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
kad si vjeru spomenuo samo mi reci kako vanzemaljci mogu biti pametni od nas kad je dragi Allah dao razum samo covjeku???almin-78 wrote:prelijepe slike,Bozije stvaranje
Sada razumijem kada Allah kaze..vi ne znate,vi meni ne trebate nego Ja vama trebam
i ne,apsolutno nemamo neko pravo na univerzum(ja sam nekako ubjedjen da nismo sami,da ima inteligentnih bica van nase galakse),uglavnom u Kuranu pise da cemo istrazivati nebesa(svemir)..sto nas ipak cini posebnim,jel?
-
Gaia
- Posts: 1383
- Joined: 10/10/2006 10:39
#482 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
ljudsko bice je razvilo razum (putem kojeg sluzi samo sebe), a covjekom postaje samo kada razvije i osjecaje (putem kojih sluzi druge i ono vece od sebe). tj, postaje osvijescen. razum je za svijest kao casa vode za okean. namece se pitanje: da li je osvijescen covjek vanzemaljac? jeste! 
-
almin-78
- Posts: 308
- Joined: 21/01/2009 09:05
#483 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
don emir,nije tacno,,,poznato je da su dzinni inteligentniji od ljudi,zasto nebi i vanzemaljci bili? ne kazem da jesu,ali mozda jesu mozda nisu.,to je manje bitno
-
mark II
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 12/03/2009 08:23
#484 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Zapravo suma sumarum onoga što sam ja htio reći jeste da nije svaka religija suprotstavljena empirijskom promatranju Univerzuma, za razliku od KC-a, te da recimo islam zabranjuje neempirijsko objašnjenje prirodnih pojava i praznovjerje, koje ide uz takve pojave. To se lako može ilustrirati, recimo, textom iz Wikipedie:
Islam and astronomy
Islam has affected astronomy directly and indirectly. A major impetus for the flowering of astronomy in Islam came from religious observances, which presented an assortment of problems in mathematical astronomy, specifically in spherical geometry.[1]
[edit] Background
In the 7th century, both Christians and Jews observed holy days, such as Easter and Passover, whose timing was determined by the phases of the moon. Both communities had confronted the fact that the approximately 29.5-day lunar months are not commensurable with the 365-day solar year. To solve the problem, Christians and Jews had adopted a scheme based on a discovery made in circa 430 BC by the Athenian astronomer Meton. In the 19-year Metonic cycle, there were 12 years of 12 lunar months and seven years of 13 lunar months. The periodic insertion of a 13th month kept calendar dates in step with the seasons.[1]
On the other hand, astronomers used Ptolemy's way to calculate the place of the moon and stars. The method Ptolemy used to solve spherical triangles was a clumsy one devised late in the first century by Menelaus of Alexandria. It involved setting up two intersecting right triangles; by applying Menelaus' theorem it was possible to solve one of the six sides, but only if the other five sides were known. To tell the time from the sun's altitude, for instance, repeated applications of Menelaus' theorem were required. For medieval Islamic astronomers, there was an obvious challenge to find a simpler trigonometric method.[1]
[edit] Islamic attitude towards astronomy
Islam advised Muslims to find ways of using the stars. The Qur'an says: "And it is He who ordained the stars for you that you may be guided thereby in the darkness of the land and the sea."[9] On the basis of this advice Muslim began to find better observational and navigational instruments, thus most navigational stars today have Arabic names.[1]
Other influences of the Qur'an on Islamic astronomy included its "insistence that the Universe is ruled by a single set of laws" which was "rooted in the Islamic concept of tawhîd, the unity of God", as well its "greater respect for empirical data than was common in the preceding Greek civilization" which inspired Muslims to place a greater emphasis on empirical observation,[10] in contrast to ancient Greek philosophers such as the Platonists and Aristotelians who expressed a general distrust towards the senses and instead viewed reason alone as being sufficient to understanding nature. The Qur'an's insistence on observation, reason and contemplation ("see", "think" and "contemplate"), on the other hand, led Muslims to develop an early scientific method based on these principles, particularly empirical observation. Muhammad Iqbal writes:[11]
“The general empirical attitude of the Qur'an which engendered in its followers a feeling of reverence for the klix, and ultimately made them the founders of modern science. It was a great point to awaken the empirical spirit in an age that renounced the visible as of no value in men's search after God.”
There are also several cosmological verses in the Qur'an (610-632) which some modern writers have interpreted as foreshadowing the expansion of the universe and possibly even the Big Bang theory:[12]
Don't those who reject faith see that the heavens and the earth were a single entity then We ripped them apart?[13]
And the heavens We did create with Our Hands, and We do cause it to expand.Qur'an 51:47
Several hadiths attributed to Muhammad also show that he was generally opposed to astrology as well as superstition in general. An example of this is when an eclipse occurred during his son Ibrahim ibn Muhammad's death, and rumours began spreading about this being God's personal condolence. Muhammad is said to have replied:[14]
"An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being."
Evo link, pa neka svako ko je zainteresiran pogleda zašto i kako su se islamski naučnici bavili astronomijom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_astronomy
Dakle - bilo kakav extreman pristup: teističko dogmatski utemeljen na apologetici sveštenstva ili agresivno ateistički utemeljen na apologetici ateizma nanose nauci jednaku štetu. Najbolji put je onaj srednji.
Islam and astronomy
Islam has affected astronomy directly and indirectly. A major impetus for the flowering of astronomy in Islam came from religious observances, which presented an assortment of problems in mathematical astronomy, specifically in spherical geometry.[1]
[edit] Background
In the 7th century, both Christians and Jews observed holy days, such as Easter and Passover, whose timing was determined by the phases of the moon. Both communities had confronted the fact that the approximately 29.5-day lunar months are not commensurable with the 365-day solar year. To solve the problem, Christians and Jews had adopted a scheme based on a discovery made in circa 430 BC by the Athenian astronomer Meton. In the 19-year Metonic cycle, there were 12 years of 12 lunar months and seven years of 13 lunar months. The periodic insertion of a 13th month kept calendar dates in step with the seasons.[1]
On the other hand, astronomers used Ptolemy's way to calculate the place of the moon and stars. The method Ptolemy used to solve spherical triangles was a clumsy one devised late in the first century by Menelaus of Alexandria. It involved setting up two intersecting right triangles; by applying Menelaus' theorem it was possible to solve one of the six sides, but only if the other five sides were known. To tell the time from the sun's altitude, for instance, repeated applications of Menelaus' theorem were required. For medieval Islamic astronomers, there was an obvious challenge to find a simpler trigonometric method.[1]
[edit] Islamic attitude towards astronomy
Islam advised Muslims to find ways of using the stars. The Qur'an says: "And it is He who ordained the stars for you that you may be guided thereby in the darkness of the land and the sea."[9] On the basis of this advice Muslim began to find better observational and navigational instruments, thus most navigational stars today have Arabic names.[1]
Other influences of the Qur'an on Islamic astronomy included its "insistence that the Universe is ruled by a single set of laws" which was "rooted in the Islamic concept of tawhîd, the unity of God", as well its "greater respect for empirical data than was common in the preceding Greek civilization" which inspired Muslims to place a greater emphasis on empirical observation,[10] in contrast to ancient Greek philosophers such as the Platonists and Aristotelians who expressed a general distrust towards the senses and instead viewed reason alone as being sufficient to understanding nature. The Qur'an's insistence on observation, reason and contemplation ("see", "think" and "contemplate"), on the other hand, led Muslims to develop an early scientific method based on these principles, particularly empirical observation. Muhammad Iqbal writes:[11]
“The general empirical attitude of the Qur'an which engendered in its followers a feeling of reverence for the klix, and ultimately made them the founders of modern science. It was a great point to awaken the empirical spirit in an age that renounced the visible as of no value in men's search after God.”
There are also several cosmological verses in the Qur'an (610-632) which some modern writers have interpreted as foreshadowing the expansion of the universe and possibly even the Big Bang theory:[12]
Don't those who reject faith see that the heavens and the earth were a single entity then We ripped them apart?[13]
And the heavens We did create with Our Hands, and We do cause it to expand.Qur'an 51:47
Several hadiths attributed to Muhammad also show that he was generally opposed to astrology as well as superstition in general. An example of this is when an eclipse occurred during his son Ibrahim ibn Muhammad's death, and rumours began spreading about this being God's personal condolence. Muhammad is said to have replied:[14]
"An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being."
Evo link, pa neka svako ko je zainteresiran pogleda zašto i kako su se islamski naučnici bavili astronomijom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_astronomy
Dakle - bilo kakav extreman pristup: teističko dogmatski utemeljen na apologetici sveštenstva ili agresivno ateistički utemeljen na apologetici ateizma nanose nauci jednaku štetu. Najbolji put je onaj srednji.
-
mark II
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 12/03/2009 08:23
-
frla
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 23/12/2008 15:16
#486 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
mark II wrote:
... pa opet se malo ljudi upita ... gdje je i šta je čovjek u svemu ovome? Osim onih kojima se je Allah dž.š. smilovao, pa im podario razum da shvate "naše stvarno mjesto u kosmosu" ...
-
madner
- Posts: 57524
- Joined: 09/08/2004 16:35
#487 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Kako dolazis do ovog zakljucka na osnovu onog sto si napisao?mark II wrote: Dakle - bilo kakav extreman pristup: teističko dogmatski utemeljen na apologetici sveštenstva ili agresivno ateistički utemeljen na apologetici ateizma nanose nauci jednaku štetu. Najbolji put je onaj srednji.
Odnos katolicke crkve je bio najlosiji i najpogubniji za nauku, islamski malo bolji, ali daleko najveci doprinos nauci je dala zapadna Evropa nakon odbacivanja crkvenih i vjerskih okova.
Nisi nikad definisao ko su ili sta su agresivni ateisti i gdje su to naskodili nauci.
Drugim rijecima, zakljucak ti nije utemeljen na cinjenicima nego predstavlja tvoj vjerski obojeni stav.
-
ružmarin-a
- Posts: 2262
- Joined: 18/04/2009 23:01
#488 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
frla wrote:mark II wrote:
Osim onih kojima se je Allah dž.š. smilovao, pa im podario razum da shvate "naše stvarno mjesto u kosmosu" ...
jao,koja disonancija....
ubija u uši Mi smo samo sićušna tačka u kosmosu, nebitni a opet bitni, jer kad se pokrene mala pozitivnost ili negativnost od jedne tačke i prenese se na druge, mogu mnoge stvari da se promjene...zakonom velikih brojeva koji je iniciran inicijativom jedinke, tačkice...
a vjerujete li u priče bivših NAS-a pripadnika da postoje žitelji u drugim galaksijama/svjetovima/paralelama/dimenzijama? Ako da,zašto se to krije, ako ne zašto ne...?
bilo bi zanimljivo kad biste o tome malo,bez obzira na svoja ubjeđenja
-
dr.Gonzo
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: 11/03/2009 17:08
#489 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
A kakav je to agresivno ateisticki pristup nauci? Ili ovaj drugi?Dakle - bilo kakav extreman pristup: teističko dogmatski utemeljen na apologetici sveštenstva ili agresivno ateistički utemeljen na apologetici ateizma nanose nauci jednaku štetu. Najbolji put je onaj srednji.
Po siroko prihvacenim stavovoma u filozofiji nauke, nauka je agnosticna jer se uopste ne bavi metafickim pitanjima. Nema teisticke i ateisticke nauke. Ima samo nauka, i zna se cime se ona bavi
-
frla
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 23/12/2008 15:16
#490 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Sasvim pogresno ... cak naprotiv ...dr.Gonzo wrote:nauka je agnosticna jer se uopste ne bavi metafickim pitanjima."
-
sistem
- Posts: 650
- Joined: 04/06/2008 19:09
#491 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
hocemo li dobiti i neko objasnjenje? argumentaciju?frla wrote:Sasvim pogresno ... cak naprotiv ...dr.Gonzo wrote:nauka je agnosticna jer se uopste ne bavi metafickim pitanjima."
-
madner
- Posts: 57524
- Joined: 09/08/2004 16:35
#492 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Pa frla je, mislim da mozemo samo ocekivati nego nepovezanu paralelu.sistem wrote:hocemo li dobiti i neko objasnjenje? argumentaciju?frla wrote:Sasvim pogresno ... cak naprotiv ...dr.Gonzo wrote:nauka je agnosticna jer se uopste ne bavi metafickim pitanjima."
Argumentacija implicira da shvata sta mu se kaze, to jos nije pokazano
Last edited by madner on 20/05/2009 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
-
sistem
- Posts: 650
- Joined: 04/06/2008 19:09
#493 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
ma dobro ba, pusti da probam
-
KatarinaKosaca
- Posts: 20066
- Joined: 30/08/2008 17:28
- Location: Izmedju kurvinih sinova i pokvarenih kurvinih sinova
#494 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Kakvi "učenjaci", stavljaju na ismijavanje neistomišljenika sa foruma. Ja se stidim za vas
A sad "pametnici"...... Nauka jeste jedna i nije religijska ili ateistička, ali sama ne daje odgovor na mnoga ljudska pitanja. Stoga su ateisti skloni da vjeruju da će se saznati kad nauke postigne određeni nivo, a vjernici su skloni da to pripišu višim silama.
Svojim ružnim komentarima prema sagovorniku pokazuješ i dokazuješ svoju nemoć, o njemu ništa ne kažeš
Mander, naravno.
A sad "pametnici"...... Nauka jeste jedna i nije religijska ili ateistička, ali sama ne daje odgovor na mnoga ljudska pitanja. Stoga su ateisti skloni da vjeruju da će se saznati kad nauke postigne određeni nivo, a vjernici su skloni da to pripišu višim silama.
Svojim ružnim komentarima prema sagovorniku pokazuješ i dokazuješ svoju nemoć, o njemu ništa ne kažeš
Mander, naravno.
-
Ateista
- Posts: 51315
- Joined: 18/01/2009 00:29
- Location: rajvosa-x.com
#495 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Ma dzaba, ja sam i dalje uvjeren da on nas samo zeza, ne mogu vjerovati da neko moze stvarno tako razmisljati. Mislim da mu je to zabava da svima kontrira nelogicnim komentarima.sistem wrote:ma dobro ba, pusti da probam
-
frla
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 23/12/2008 15:16
#496 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Nemoj tako @madner je fin i kulturan decko ali puno cita vesele sveske pa je zato ovako duhovit ...KatarinaKosaca wrote:Kakvi "učenjaci", stavljaju na ismijavanje neistomišljenika sa foruma. Ja se stidim za vas
A sad "pametnici"...... Nauka jeste jedna i nije religijska ili ateistička, ali sama ne daje odgovor na mnoga ljudska pitanja. Stoga su ateisti skloni da vjeruju da će se saznati kad nauke postigne određeni nivo, a vjernici su skloni da to pripišu višim silama.
Svojim ružnim komentarima prema sagovorniku pokazuješ i dokazuješ svoju nemoć, o njemu ništa ne kažeš
Mander, naravno.
-
frla
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 23/12/2008 15:16
#497 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Lijepo se ponasaj ...madner wrote: Pa frla je, mislim da mozemo samo ocekivati nego nepovezanu paralelu.
Argumentacija implicira da shvata sta mu se kaze, to jos nije pokazano
Last edited by frla on 20/05/2009 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
-
frla
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 23/12/2008 15:16
#498 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
U tome je sva poenta neshvatanja ... tako jednostavnih i logicnih stvari ...Ateista wrote:ne mogu vjerovati
-
frla
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 23/12/2008 15:16
#499 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
Znas li šta su rekli Muji hastronautu kad je s' Lajkom sletio na mjesec?sistem wrote:ma dobro ba, pusti da probam
-
madner
- Posts: 57524
- Joined: 09/08/2004 16:35
#500 Re: NASE STVARNO MJESTO U KOSMOSU
frla wrote:Znas li šta su rekli Muji hastronautu kad je s' Lajkom sletio na mjesec?sistem wrote:ma dobro ba, pusti da probam
Nije da se hvalim, ali ili je bilo predvidljivo ili imam nadljudske mocimadner wrote: Pa frla je, mislim da mozemo samo ocekivati nego nepovezanu paralelu.