Upravo! Stoka je pod kontrolom kad je čoban na čelu, kakva demokartija kakvi bakarači. Uostalom vidjeli smo na vlastitom primjeru a mi smo još "europljani".Herr Flick wrote:Da nije bilo laziranog tzv.Arapskog proljeca danas nebi ni imali ISIL a vjerovatno ni ovoliko napada u Francuskoj..Za sve ove zrtve[ u Nici,Parizu itd svu odgovornost snosi Francuska drzava tj vlada..Kako da ocekujes da imas mir i stabilnost u drzavi kada podrzavas svakakvu bandu u nasilnom rusenju rezima u drugim drzavama,Libija,Sirija
Pariz
- kamberovica polje
- Posts: 4135
- Joined: 28/01/2012 11:38
#4626 Re: Pariz
- Drvosjeca iz Dejcica
- Posts: 16757
- Joined: 23/06/2004 15:46
- Location: Sarajevo
#4627 Re: Pariz
Ma to što spominješ se odavno radi ali efekat je slab odnosno mi nemamo pravih inforamcija koliko je to uspješno. Imaš tu i masu ljudi koji proučavaju takve FB grupe, stranice, studente, profile ljudi, obavještajne podatke, imaš tzv. mamce stranice kada agencije namjerno naprave stranice na kojima određene grupe i pojedinci ostavljaju poruke ili daju podršku i to je OK. Sve je to poznato i ja ne reagovah na to već na "iznenadne namještene smrti" pa prepoznah neselektivno ubijanje kao metod borbe protiv terorizma.Bodkin wrote:Mislim da nisi shvatio post. On kaze da tu nema razlike sa isil, a ja kazem da ima jer ne ganjas sve muslimane evrope nego ove sto im se svidja ta nazadna ideologijastakasa wrote:Nije bas da je samo stvar odluke. E sacu ovoj milijardi jebat majku...Bodkin wrote:
Po sistemu otvaras al kaida i isil stranice, ides po fb grupama, ides kod ucenjaka i raznih imama na predavanja, ides u siriju i irak, povezan si sa radikalnim grupama. Razlika je u tome sto da bi bio kao isil, uhvatis sve muslimane i pobijes. Eto koja je razlika
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bosanska senzacija
- Posts: 2065
- Joined: 14/02/2011 09:48
#4628 Re: Pariz
Neciji mladji brat je vec zaplatio a u odmazdi ce zaplatiti i desetine drugih.stakasa wrote:[
Uozbilji se, kakve osvete familiji jesi li pametan uopste. I kako to mozes nazvati individualiziranjem da mu kaznis mladeg brata
- stakasa
- Posts: 8959
- Joined: 14/11/2013 11:23
#4629 Re: Pariz
Mislim da nisi shvatio post. On kaze da tu nema razlike sa isil, a ja kazem da ima jer ne ganjas sve muslimane evrope nego ove sto im se svidja ta nazadna ideologija[/quote]Bodkin wrote:Nije bas da je samo stvar odluke. E sacu ovoj milijardi jebat majku...stakasa wrote:
Po sistemu otvaras al kaida i isil stranice, ides po fb grupama, ides kod ucenjaka i raznih imama na predavanja, ides u siriju i irak, povezan si sa radikalnim grupama. Razlika je u tome sto da bi bio kao isil, uhvatis sve muslimane i pobijes. Eto koja je razlika
Ok, do mene je.
Ja mislim da nema potrebe da Francuska i ostale zapadne zemlje idu u neke posebne radikalizacije. Toliko stvari se moze uciniti prije toga. Jer se je dosad ucinilo mizerno malo da se problem rjesi. Problem postoji. I predugo se je sklanjao pod tepih. Jeste se zakotrljalo, jeste otislo daleko ali vrijedi pokusati. Bez figa u depu. Jer Francuska trpi. I Francuska uopste nije u mogucnosti da se neselektivno sveti svim muslimanima u Francuskoj. Da ih proganja, hapsi, tjera iz zemlje... Kolapsirala bi. Izmedu ostalog bi se Francuska trebala zapitati sta nam je vaznije - mir u kuci ili akcije po inostranstvu
Suplje su vam price o Arapima. Svi su ljudi isti
- Dozer
- Posts: 33040
- Joined: 19/09/2008 10:14
- Location: Zemlja maloumne ENV matrice...
#4630 Re: Pariz
breuer wrote:Izrael ne vrši agresiju već se 50 godina bori protiv tog istog terorizma, dok je Francuska pod plaštom demokratije i sličnih
sranja presudno utjecala da se poremete odnosi na čitavom Bliskom istoku i sjevernoj Africi, pa sad kusa plodove tih akcija. Cijenu plačaju nevini građani, nažalost tako je, kako u Francuskoj tako i u Libiji, Siriji, Jemenu, Iraku i nema gdje ne.
Ova boldirana recenica/konstatacija je vrh
A ko je uopste kreirao pojavu terorizma? Da budemo nacisto - ja sam protiv svake vrste nasilja, u sta definitivno spada i terorizam, ali ako cemo biti bolno iskreni onda je red reci da je upravo Izrael, tj. Jevreji, prvi poceo/li sa svim tim u Palestini.
Naravno, u svemu su ih zdusno podrzavali Ameri, a i kako ne bi kada je 80% americkog kapitala u rukama Jevreja, dok su Englezi tu siva eminencija svega. Stari namazani kolonijalisti koji iz sjene upravljaju vecinom svijeta vec 200+ godina.
Doduse, zadnjih 50-ak godina, tacnije od WWII, se im Ameri otimaju i preuzimaju primat, ali su Jevreji tu i dalje neprikosnoveni upravo jer je kapital u njihovim rukama.
Jos jednom se vracam na ovo - ko razumije, shvatice

Last edited by Dozer on 15/07/2016 13:02, edited 2 times in total.
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NeenaSa
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 25/04/2012 12:20
#4631 Re: Pariz
I?karanana wrote:vozeci se azurnom obalom, jednom sam rekao hajmo u nicu....kad sam skreno na jedan ulaz u grad i kad sam prosao pored jedne cetvrti....jebo bagdad, kabul, damask bronx, juzni dio chicaga.....strava od zgrada. geto.
reko, ne vrijedi voznja do nekog boljeg dijela ako ga uopste i ima. haj ti karanana nazad, next stop mojte karlo.
Hajmo unajmit' kamion i u shetache? Chovjeche i djeca.
Nemoj me zlonamjerno shvatit'. Svi su dobili priliku kao i ovaj kreten.
Ne znam , fakat , ne znam
- karanana
- Posts: 50799
- Joined: 26/02/2004 00:00
#4632 Re: Pariz
ne kontam. sta sam reko?NeenaSa wrote:I?karanana wrote:vozeci se azurnom obalom, jednom sam rekao hajmo u nicu....kad sam skreno na jedan ulaz u grad i kad sam prosao pored jedne cetvrti....jebo bagdad, kabul, damask bronx, juzni dio chicaga.....strava od zgrada. geto.
reko, ne vrijedi voznja do nekog boljeg dijela ako ga uopste i ima. haj ti karanana nazad, next stop mojte karlo.
Hajmo unajmit' kamion i u shetache? Chovjeche i djeca.![]()
Nemoj me zlonamjerno shvatit'. Svi su dobili priliku kao i ovaj kreten.
Ne znam , fakat , ne znam
nisam nikakav zakljucak dao ni za jednu stranu a jos manje da sam branio ovog ludaka. dapache, htio sam reci da sam se prepao nice.
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breuer
- Posts: 7930
- Joined: 06/07/2009 15:44
#4633 Re: Pariz
Steve Jobs JevrejinDozer wrote:A ko je uopste kreirao pojavu terorizma? Da budemo nacisto - ja sam protiv svake vrste nasilja, u sta definitivno spada i terorizam, ali ako cemo biti bolno iskreni onda je red reci da je upravo Izrael, tj. Jevreji, prvi poceo/li sa svim tim u Palestini.
Naravno, u svemu su ih zdusno podrzavali Ameri, a i kako ne bi kada je 80% americkog kapitala u rukama Jevreja, dok su Englezi tu siva eminencija svega. Stari namazani kolonijalisti koji iz sjene upravljaju vecinom svijeta vec 200+ godina.
Doduse, zadnjih 50-ak godina im se Ameri otimaju i preuzimaju primat, ali su Jevreji tu i dalje neprikosnoveni upravo jer je kapital u njihovim rukama.
Francuska s druge strane sve posmatra sa sigurne distance, obavijena pričom o demokratiji i pravima (napad se desio na dan Bastilje), miješa se (naravno ne sama, čak ni kao lider) u politiku mnogih bliskoistočnih zemlja i rezultati su vidljivi, nažalost.
- Fantassin
- Posts: 1912
- Joined: 04/01/2014 13:09
- Location: France
#4634 Re: Pariz
Lagano ali sigurno Francuzi postaju desnicari.Posle ce biti kukanja kako Francuska maltretira muslimane u istoj...
- insomnia78
- Posts: 61961
- Joined: 03/04/2011 14:43
#4635 Re: Pariz
Samo sto ovaj debil ima veze sa Libijom, Sirijom, Gadafijem i ostalim glupostima koje ste naveli taman ko i vi
Bosna eto ne sije smrt po BI pa opet braca pozivaju na trovanje vode, ubijanje cafira i klanje reisa
S moje sokoćalo
Bosna eto ne sije smrt po BI pa opet braca pozivaju na trovanje vode, ubijanje cafira i klanje reisa
S moje sokoćalo
-
statixx
- Posts: 9928
- Joined: 15/12/2011 14:40
- Location: Sarajevo
#4636 Re: Pariz
Radicalization is not so simple
That narrative consists broadly of four elements: First, the claim that people become terrorists because they acquire certain, usually religiously informed, extremist ideas. Second, that these ideas are acquired in a different way to the way people acquire other extremist or oppositional ideas, such as , say, Marxism or anarchism, or mainstream ideas such as conservatism or liberalism Third, that there is a ‘conveyor belt’ that leads from grievance or personal crisis to religiosity to the adoption of radical beliefs to terrorism And, fourth, the insistence that what makes people vulnerable to acquiring such ideas is that they are poorly integrated into society.
Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts.
But if the conventional radicalization thesis is without foundation, much of the criticism of it is also flawed. Many of the critics argue that is not religion but politics that drives wannabe jihadis to terror. Western intervention in the Middle East and in Muslim-majority countries elsewhere, they suggest, from the war in Iraq to the support for Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, has radicalized many Muslims and pushed them into the hands of the jihadists.
What both forms of the radicalization thesis miss is the specific historical context of the contemporary attraction of jihadism. Muslims have been in Europe in large numbers for more than half a century. It is only in the past 20 years, though, that radical Islam has gained a foothold.
Similarly Western governments were intervening in Muslim-majority countries long before Osama bin Laden took to a cave in Afghanistan, let alone the Islamic State began its brutal rule in swathes of Iraq and Syria. From Winston Churchill ordering the use of mustard gas against Iraqi rebels in the 1920s, to the CIA engineering a coup against the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadeq in Iran in 1953, to the brutal attempt by the French to suppress the Algerian independence movement in late 1950s, to Western backing for Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran in the 1980s – there is a long history of such intervention. There has always been resistance to Western intervention, and often violent resistance, but specifically Islamic opposition is relatively new, and nihilistic terrorism newer still.
What the radicalization thesis of either form fails to explain is why it is at this historical moment, and only at this historical moment, that the savage form of jihadism that we associate with Islamic State has arisen, or that some Muslims in West are drawn to nihilistic terror.
The answers to these questions are, of course, highly complex, ranging from the failures of secular regimes to the impact of Western intervention, from the role of Saudi Arabia to the demise of traditional anti-imperialist movements. Most of this is beyond the scope of this talk. I want here to try to address a small part of the answer: what it is about this historical moment that turns some Muslims in the West into wannabe jihadis?
Dalje:
Or take the Kouachi brothers, the two French Muslims responsible for slaughter of 12 people at the Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris in January. They were raised in Gennevilliers, a northern suburb of Paris, home to around 10,000 people of North African origin. Cherif Kouachi, who appeared to mastermind the operation, only rarely attended mosque, and appeared not to be particularly religious, but was driven by a sense of social estrangement. He was, according to Mohammed Benali, president of the local mosque, of a ‘generation that felt excluded, discriminated against, and most of all, humiliated. They spoke and felt French, but were regarded as Arabic; they were culturally confused.’ According to Benali, Kouachi was most affronted by the imam’s insistence on the importance of political engagement. ‘When the imam told everyone to enrol on the register of electors so they could take part in elections, and play their part in society, he refused. He said he wasn’t a French citizen and wanted nothing to do with the democratic process. He then walked out of the mosque.’
Cherif Kouachi and Mohammed Sidique Khan are both of a milieu that has been caught not between two cultures, as is often suggested, but between no cultures. Wider society labels them ‘Muslim’, yet they have little affinity with the Islam of their parents, of tradition. As a consequence, some of them have turned to Islamism, and a few have expressed their inchoate rage through jihadi-style violence. Common to all the stories wannabe jihadis is their distance from conventional Muslim traditions and institutions, either because they have rejected them or because they came to Islam later in their life. Disengaged from both Western societies and Muslim communities, some reach out to Islamism.
What Islamism provides to the likes of Ifthekar Jaman and Sahra Ali Mehenni and Kreshnik Berisha is not religion in any old-fashioned sense, but identity, recognition and meaning. Detached from traditional religious institutions and cultures, many adopt a literal reading of the Qur’an and a strict observance of supposedly authentic religious norms to mark themselves out as distinct and provide a collective identity. Disembedded from social norms, finding their identity within a small group, shaped by black and white ideas and values, driven by a sense that they must act on behalf of all Muslims and in opposition to all enemies of Islam, it becomes easier to commit acts of horror and to view such acts as part of an existential struggle between Islam and the West.
At the same time, the framing of an issue necessarily changes over time.
Consider, for instance, the concept of the ‘radical’, central to the ‘radicalization’ thesis. I was, and indeed still am, a ‘radical’. But when I was growing up, ‘radical’ in a Muslim context meant being secular, ‘Westernized’, leftwing. Today, it means almost the opposite; it describes someone who is a religious fundamentalist, anti-Western, hostile to secularism and to traditional leftwing politics. In the shift in the meaning of that single word is encompassed the remaking of a whole social universe. And without understanding the remaking of that social universe, we will never grasp the reasons for which some European Muslims find jihadism attractive.
https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/1 ... so-simple/
That narrative consists broadly of four elements: First, the claim that people become terrorists because they acquire certain, usually religiously informed, extremist ideas. Second, that these ideas are acquired in a different way to the way people acquire other extremist or oppositional ideas, such as , say, Marxism or anarchism, or mainstream ideas such as conservatism or liberalism Third, that there is a ‘conveyor belt’ that leads from grievance or personal crisis to religiosity to the adoption of radical beliefs to terrorism And, fourth, the insistence that what makes people vulnerable to acquiring such ideas is that they are poorly integrated into society.
Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts.
But if the conventional radicalization thesis is without foundation, much of the criticism of it is also flawed. Many of the critics argue that is not religion but politics that drives wannabe jihadis to terror. Western intervention in the Middle East and in Muslim-majority countries elsewhere, they suggest, from the war in Iraq to the support for Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, has radicalized many Muslims and pushed them into the hands of the jihadists.
What both forms of the radicalization thesis miss is the specific historical context of the contemporary attraction of jihadism. Muslims have been in Europe in large numbers for more than half a century. It is only in the past 20 years, though, that radical Islam has gained a foothold.
Similarly Western governments were intervening in Muslim-majority countries long before Osama bin Laden took to a cave in Afghanistan, let alone the Islamic State began its brutal rule in swathes of Iraq and Syria. From Winston Churchill ordering the use of mustard gas against Iraqi rebels in the 1920s, to the CIA engineering a coup against the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadeq in Iran in 1953, to the brutal attempt by the French to suppress the Algerian independence movement in late 1950s, to Western backing for Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran in the 1980s – there is a long history of such intervention. There has always been resistance to Western intervention, and often violent resistance, but specifically Islamic opposition is relatively new, and nihilistic terrorism newer still.
What the radicalization thesis of either form fails to explain is why it is at this historical moment, and only at this historical moment, that the savage form of jihadism that we associate with Islamic State has arisen, or that some Muslims in West are drawn to nihilistic terror.
The answers to these questions are, of course, highly complex, ranging from the failures of secular regimes to the impact of Western intervention, from the role of Saudi Arabia to the demise of traditional anti-imperialist movements. Most of this is beyond the scope of this talk. I want here to try to address a small part of the answer: what it is about this historical moment that turns some Muslims in the West into wannabe jihadis?
Dalje:
Or take the Kouachi brothers, the two French Muslims responsible for slaughter of 12 people at the Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris in January. They were raised in Gennevilliers, a northern suburb of Paris, home to around 10,000 people of North African origin. Cherif Kouachi, who appeared to mastermind the operation, only rarely attended mosque, and appeared not to be particularly religious, but was driven by a sense of social estrangement. He was, according to Mohammed Benali, president of the local mosque, of a ‘generation that felt excluded, discriminated against, and most of all, humiliated. They spoke and felt French, but were regarded as Arabic; they were culturally confused.’ According to Benali, Kouachi was most affronted by the imam’s insistence on the importance of political engagement. ‘When the imam told everyone to enrol on the register of electors so they could take part in elections, and play their part in society, he refused. He said he wasn’t a French citizen and wanted nothing to do with the democratic process. He then walked out of the mosque.’
Cherif Kouachi and Mohammed Sidique Khan are both of a milieu that has been caught not between two cultures, as is often suggested, but between no cultures. Wider society labels them ‘Muslim’, yet they have little affinity with the Islam of their parents, of tradition. As a consequence, some of them have turned to Islamism, and a few have expressed their inchoate rage through jihadi-style violence. Common to all the stories wannabe jihadis is their distance from conventional Muslim traditions and institutions, either because they have rejected them or because they came to Islam later in their life. Disengaged from both Western societies and Muslim communities, some reach out to Islamism.
What Islamism provides to the likes of Ifthekar Jaman and Sahra Ali Mehenni and Kreshnik Berisha is not religion in any old-fashioned sense, but identity, recognition and meaning. Detached from traditional religious institutions and cultures, many adopt a literal reading of the Qur’an and a strict observance of supposedly authentic religious norms to mark themselves out as distinct and provide a collective identity. Disembedded from social norms, finding their identity within a small group, shaped by black and white ideas and values, driven by a sense that they must act on behalf of all Muslims and in opposition to all enemies of Islam, it becomes easier to commit acts of horror and to view such acts as part of an existential struggle between Islam and the West.
At the same time, the framing of an issue necessarily changes over time.
Consider, for instance, the concept of the ‘radical’, central to the ‘radicalization’ thesis. I was, and indeed still am, a ‘radical’. But when I was growing up, ‘radical’ in a Muslim context meant being secular, ‘Westernized’, leftwing. Today, it means almost the opposite; it describes someone who is a religious fundamentalist, anti-Western, hostile to secularism and to traditional leftwing politics. In the shift in the meaning of that single word is encompassed the remaking of a whole social universe. And without understanding the remaking of that social universe, we will never grasp the reasons for which some European Muslims find jihadism attractive.
https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/1 ... so-simple/
- Fantassin
- Posts: 1912
- Joined: 04/01/2014 13:09
- Location: France
#4637 Re: Pariz
Po meni to mentalni sklop Karadjica i kompanije."Nas su Turci tlacili 500 godina i ubijali pa sad mi vracamo"insomnia78 wrote:Samo sto ovaj debil ima veze sa Libijom, Sirijom, Gadafijem i ostalim glupostima koje ste naveli taman ko i vi
Bosna eto ne sije smrt po BI pa opet braca pozivaju na trovanje vode, ubijanje cafira i klanje reisa
S moje sokoćalo
Eto taj konj zivio u Fr kao i svi ostali jer se vjerovatno ufatio noge iz svoje slobodne rupe u Africi da bi zivio u kjafirskoj zemlji i onda kamionom pogazio ljude na setalistu....
E Francuzi su sami sebi krvi.. potovariti na brod i nazad u odakle si dosao ako mrzis kulturu i ideale zemlje u koju si doveslao.
- insomnia78
- Posts: 61961
- Joined: 03/04/2011 14:43
#4638 Re: Pariz
Najmanje dvoje djece medju poginulima i na desetine povrjedjenih
Takodje i dosta stranih drzavljana
Amerikanac i njegov 11-godisnji sin. Nijemci, Rusi, Ukrajinci, Armenci, Svicarci...
S moje sokoćalo
Takodje i dosta stranih drzavljana
Amerikanac i njegov 11-godisnji sin. Nijemci, Rusi, Ukrajinci, Armenci, Svicarci...
S moje sokoćalo
- Fantassin
- Posts: 1912
- Joined: 04/01/2014 13:09
- Location: France
-
NeenaSa
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 25/04/2012 12:20
#4640 Re: Pariz
Ama chitaj shto napisah.karanana wrote:ne kontam. sta sam reko?NeenaSa wrote:I?karanana wrote:vozeci se azurnom obalom, jednom sam rekao hajmo u nicu....kad sam skreno na jedan ulaz u grad i kad sam prosao pored jedne cetvrti....jebo bagdad, kabul, damask bronx, juzni dio chicaga.....strava od zgrada. geto.
reko, ne vrijedi voznja do nekog boljeg dijela ako ga uopste i ima. haj ti karanana nazad, next stop mojte karlo.
Hajmo unajmit' kamion i u shetache? Chovjeche i djeca.![]()
Nemoj me zlonamjerno shvatit'. Svi su dobili priliku kao i ovaj kreten.
Ne znam , fakat , ne znam
nisam nikakav zakljucak dao ni za jednu stranu a jos manje da sam branio ovog ludaka. dapache, htio sam reci da sam se prepao nice.
- madner
- Posts: 57524
- Joined: 09/08/2004 16:35
#4641 Re: Pariz
Pa to je praksa bila tokom hladnog rata sa obje strane zida a bome i na domacem terenu.kamen spoticanja wrote:Neizvodivo...samo regrutujes nove borce protiv " nepravde,spaljene palestinske djece,razvaljenih sirijskih bolnica itd"madner wrote:Pa radis proaktivno.kamen spoticanja wrote: Kako osuditi mrtvog covjeka?
Odnosno sluzba to radi. Napravi spisak potencijalnih. Odredi koji su najopasniji. Te osudi na iznenadnu smrt.
Samo sto uvijek nastradaju i nevini. Samo puno manje nego u ovim napadima.
To tvoje je nesto kao ono maloprije pomenuto "hapsenje radi umjetnickog dojma"
Ja se recimo nadam da je Barcic tako stradao, to je rukopis drzave koja se brine o sigurnosti na duze staze.
Ne hapsi se opste, ne vrsi se nikakva vidna represija. Samo ponekad nekoga mrak proguta ili dodje do obracuna "kriminalaca" gdje se ne zna kome je sta zamjerio.
- insomnia78
- Posts: 61961
- Joined: 03/04/2011 14:43
#4642 Re: Pariz
Mislim da je rodjen dole ali to ne mjenja tacnost toga sto kazesFantassin wrote:Po meni to mentalni sklop Karadjica i kompanije."Nas su Turci tlacili 500 godina i ubijali pa sad mi vracamo"insomnia78 wrote:Samo sto ovaj debil ima veze sa Libijom, Sirijom, Gadafijem i ostalim glupostima koje ste naveli taman ko i vi
Bosna eto ne sije smrt po BI pa opet braca pozivaju na trovanje vode, ubijanje cafira i klanje reisa
S moje sokoćalo
Eto taj konj zivio u Fr kao i svi ostali jer se vjerovatno ufatio noge iz svoje slobodne rupe u Africi da bi zivio u kjafirskoj zemlji i onda kamionom pogazio ljude na setalistu....
E Francuzi su sami sebi krvi.. potovariti na brod i nazad u odakle si dosao ako mrzis kulturu i ideale zemlje u koju si doveslao.
Price o tlacenju i slicno su cista glupost. Svako ima priliku, vise njih
Sto dokazuju i imigranti koji su doktori, policajci, vojnici, glumci...
S moje sokoćalo
- Truba
- Posts: 94255
- Joined: 17/03/2004 09:36
- Location: Vizantija
- Grijem se na: Plin i struju
- Horoskop: Vodolija
- Contact:
#4643 Re: Pariz
oce li ovsj njihov nespoosobnjakovic od npredsjednika uciniti nesto ili podnijeti ostavku
sve sto je uradio je promocija frizeraja i brace gejeva
dajte mi rezultate?
smijeniti i otpustiti u policiji i službama...
polako ulagati u sigurnost
sve sto je uradio je promocija frizeraja i brace gejeva
dajte mi rezultate?
smijeniti i otpustiti u policiji i službama...
polako ulagati u sigurnost
- k3ngur
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: 21/05/2008 13:58
- Location: Land Down Under
#4644 Re: Pariz
Prva zrtva ovog ludjaka je bila muslimanka
- Truba
- Posts: 94255
- Joined: 17/03/2004 09:36
- Location: Vizantija
- Grijem se na: Plin i struju
- Horoskop: Vodolija
- Contact:
#4645 Re: Pariz
kako mozes komunističkog diktatora i generala porediti s ovom gospodom gore?kamen spoticanja wrote:Velis samo slobo milosevic,ratko mladic i taj scenarij?Yug wrote:Jesu li se javili Oland,Obama da izjave kako osudjuju ovo u Nici po dvadeseti jubilarni put.Samo Le Pen,Trump ,Putin i onda GANG BANG
- mO k3
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#4646 Re: Pariz
njima je svejedno koga će da ubiju bio to katolik ili musliman
- Truba
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#4647 Re: Pariz
slicno je i u nigeriji i pakistanuk3ngur wrote:Prva zrtva ovog ludjaka je bila muslimanka
ali to ne mijenja cinjenicu da su nemuslimani primarne mete
ili kako kazu na jednoj stranici krizari
- Rubaija
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#4648 Re: Pariz
Dobra analiza.statixx wrote:Radicalization is not so simple
That narrative consists broadly of four elements: First, the claim that people become terrorists because they acquire certain, usually religiously informed, extremist ideas. Second, that these ideas are acquired in a different way to the way people acquire other extremist or oppositional ideas, such as , say, Marxism or anarchism, or mainstream ideas such as conservatism or liberalism Third, that there is a ‘conveyor belt’ that leads from grievance or personal crisis to religiosity to the adoption of radical beliefs to terrorism And, fourth, the insistence that what makes people vulnerable to acquiring such ideas is that they are poorly integrated into society.
Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts.
But if the conventional radicalization thesis is without foundation, much of the criticism of it is also flawed. Many of the critics argue that is not religion but politics that drives wannabe jihadis to terror. Western intervention in the Middle East and in Muslim-majority countries elsewhere, they suggest, from the war in Iraq to the support for Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, has radicalized many Muslims and pushed them into the hands of the jihadists.
What both forms of the radicalization thesis miss is the specific historical context of the contemporary attraction of jihadism. Muslims have been in Europe in large numbers for more than half a century. It is only in the past 20 years, though, that radical Islam has gained a foothold.
Similarly Western governments were intervening in Muslim-majority countries long before Osama bin Laden took to a cave in Afghanistan, let alone the Islamic State began its brutal rule in swathes of Iraq and Syria. From Winston Churchill ordering the use of mustard gas against Iraqi rebels in the 1920s, to the CIA engineering a coup against the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadeq in Iran in 1953, to the brutal attempt by the French to suppress the Algerian independence movement in late 1950s, to Western backing for Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran in the 1980s – there is a long history of such intervention. There has always been resistance to Western intervention, and often violent resistance, but specifically Islamic opposition is relatively new, and nihilistic terrorism newer still.
What the radicalization thesis of either form fails to explain is why it is at this historical moment, and only at this historical moment, that the savage form of jihadism that we associate with Islamic State has arisen, or that some Muslims in West are drawn to nihilistic terror.
The answers to these questions are, of course, highly complex, ranging from the failures of secular regimes to the impact of Western intervention, from the role of Saudi Arabia to the demise of traditional anti-imperialist movements. Most of this is beyond the scope of this talk. I want here to try to address a small part of the answer: what it is about this historical moment that turns some Muslims in the West into wannabe jihadis?
Dalje:
Or take the Kouachi brothers, the two French Muslims responsible for slaughter of 12 people at the Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris in January. They were raised in Gennevilliers, a northern suburb of Paris, home to around 10,000 people of North African origin. Cherif Kouachi, who appeared to mastermind the operation, only rarely attended mosque, and appeared not to be particularly religious, but was driven by a sense of social estrangement. He was, according to Mohammed Benali, president of the local mosque, of a ‘generation that felt excluded, discriminated against, and most of all, humiliated. They spoke and felt French, but were regarded as Arabic; they were culturally confused.’ According to Benali, Kouachi was most affronted by the imam’s insistence on the importance of political engagement. ‘When the imam told everyone to enrol on the register of electors so they could take part in elections, and play their part in society, he refused. He said he wasn’t a French citizen and wanted nothing to do with the democratic process. He then walked out of the mosque.’
Cherif Kouachi and Mohammed Sidique Khan are both of a milieu that has been caught not between two cultures, as is often suggested, but between no cultures. Wider society labels them ‘Muslim’, yet they have little affinity with the Islam of their parents, of tradition. As a consequence, some of them have turned to Islamism, and a few have expressed their inchoate rage through jihadi-style violence. Common to all the stories wannabe jihadis is their distance from conventional Muslim traditions and institutions, either because they have rejected them or because they came to Islam later in their life. Disengaged from both Western societies and Muslim communities, some reach out to Islamism.
What Islamism provides to the likes of Ifthekar Jaman and Sahra Ali Mehenni and Kreshnik Berisha is not religion in any old-fashioned sense, but identity, recognition and meaning. Detached from traditional religious institutions and cultures, many adopt a literal reading of the Qur’an and a strict observance of supposedly authentic religious norms to mark themselves out as distinct and provide a collective identity. Disembedded from social norms, finding their identity within a small group, shaped by black and white ideas and values, driven by a sense that they must act on behalf of all Muslims and in opposition to all enemies of Islam, it becomes easier to commit acts of horror and to view such acts as part of an existential struggle between Islam and the West.
At the same time, the framing of an issue necessarily changes over time.
Consider, for instance, the concept of the ‘radical’, central to the ‘radicalization’ thesis. I was, and indeed still am, a ‘radical’. But when I was growing up, ‘radical’ in a Muslim context meant being secular, ‘Westernized’, leftwing. Today, it means almost the opposite; it describes someone who is a religious fundamentalist, anti-Western, hostile to secularism and to traditional leftwing politics. In the shift in the meaning of that single word is encompassed the remaking of a whole social universe. And without understanding the remaking of that social universe, we will never grasp the reasons for which some European Muslims find jihadism attractive.
https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/1 ... so-simple/
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statixx
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#4649 Re: Pariz
To mu sigurno nije bilo vazno, bijes je usmjeren protiv sistema vrijednosti i kompletnog nacina zivota koji su danas karakteristicni za Zapad. Nije slucajno odabrao nacionalni praznik kada slave najvazniji dan francuske revolucije i nastoje ocuvati vrijednosti iste i jedinstvo nakon proslogodisnjih teroristickih napada.k3ngur wrote:Prva zrtva ovog ludjaka je bila muslimanka
- Fantassin
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#4650 Re: Pariz
Zasto muslimani nista ne cine da sprijece radikalizaciju.... pa u pola djamija u Francuskoj se prodaju price koje daju izgovore ovakvim idiotima.Zasto muslimani nisu prvi koji ce prijaviti ljude i organizacije za koje primjete da su ekstremni/e. Pa valjda zajednica najbolje zna kako ljudi u istoj misle.Zasto nema protesta protiv al kaide daesa i slicnih a ne neko tiho opravdavanje davanjem izgovora tipa to je Amerika ili Izrael ih naveo ili uzrokovao da se radikalizuju.. Ili po Milosevicu zavjera Vatikana...k3ngur wrote:Prva zrtva ovog ludjaka je bila muslimanka
Evo ovde na forumu je prvi primjer... niko ne spominje da bi muslimani trebali malo da razmisle i djeluju da sprijece ovakve idotske poteze .. nego odma se spominje Amerika Izrael Rusija ili neko treci.. po nekoj logici.. ne nismo mi krivi ni zasto mi smo super sve je to krivica drugih..
