izrael ne zeli pregovarati sa hamasom i slicnima koji ne priznaju sam izrael i postavili su cilj unistenje izraela. i u tome imaju podrsku svijeta, pa bila izravna ili presucena. svi palestinski politicari koji to ignoriraju imaju politicki mrtve ciljeve. hamas je jedan od takvih. ne radi se ni o kakvom opravdavanju sile, nego analizi situacije. najjaci u svijetu su postavili pravila politicke igre, borbe, djelovanja, promjena. znamo da se oni sami ne drze uvijek tih pravila, ali svi manji narodi, poput palestinaca i nas, i mnogih manjih naroda u svijetu moramo igrati po tim pravilima. politicari koji to shvate su realni politicari.BaileyS wrote: Opet se vracamo na isto, da Izrael ne zeli razgovore i vrsi blokadu okupirane teritorije.
Problem je prije svega jer Izrael ne priznaje medjunarodno priznate granice. Da bi mogli traziti da ih neko prizna trebali bi npr. odustati od okupiranih teritorija i dozvoliti povratak izbjeglica. Ni u jednom mirovnom sporazumu na svijetu ne trazi se zabrana povratka izbjeglih a eto Izrael je i po tome iznimak. Nisu ni nas priznavali raznorazni agresori pa smo opet bili prinudjeni pricati s njima. Sve ovo sto ti navodis je shuplje opravdavanje sile.
Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!
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Gost123
- Posts: 457
- Joined: 05/06/2006 12:03
#401 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50305
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#402 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
I, koliko su trajali ti sukobi, a koliko traje ovaj u Palestini? Razlika je ogromna.Drvosjeca iz Dejcica wrote: Zasto pokret otpora u Francuskoj i Jugoslaviji tokom IIWW nije umjesto oruzane borbe prihvatio mirnu politicku borbu, a svi ovi pkreti su naravi bili surovi i nemilosrdni? Zasto se Crvna armija nije mirnim metodama borila protiv Wermachta, sacuvali bi se milioni ljudskih zivota? Mislim da sada znas odgovor na svoja postavljena pitanja.
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wizzard
- Posts: 512
- Joined: 30/12/2005 13:40
#403 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
egipat je zaista zatvorio granice, kako kaze jedan egipcanin..salju medicinsku i drugu pomoc ali nedaju nikom da udje iz palestine sem teze povrijedjenih..
helem, stid ga je egipatske vlade i istice kako ih je izrael ponizio time sto ih je doveo u pat poziciju..
helem, stid ga je egipatske vlade i istice kako ih je izrael ponizio time sto ih je doveo u pat poziciju..
- Drvosjeca iz Dejcica
- Posts: 16757
- Joined: 23/06/2004 15:46
- Location: Sarajevo
#404 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Naravno da ne ali kada se radi o pravu na samoodbranu i otporu onda je to jedno te isto. Ne mozes jednima dati legimitet a drugima to osporiti.Gost123 wrote:i tebi analogija potpuno odgovara situaciji u palestini?Drvosjeca iz Dejcica wrote: Zasto pokret otpora u Francuskoj i Jugoslaviji tokom IIWW nije umjesto oruzane borbe prihvatio mirnu politicku borbu, a svi ovi pkreti su naravi bili surovi i nemilosrdni? Zasto se Crvna armija nije mirnim metodama borila protiv Wermachta, sacuvali bi se milioni ljudskih zivota? Mislim da sada znas odgovor na svoja postavljena pitanja."
Pogresno promisljanje ili bolje receno pogresno formulisano pitanje. Koliko bi trajali ti sukobi da Crvena armija nije potjerala Wermacht i da se nije desio D-Day? 10, 20, 30, 100 godina? Trebaju li i imaju li pravo Palestinci na svoj D-Day i neku vrstu svoje Crvene armije? Iskreno to smatram neophodnim kako bi se Izrael privolio za pregovaracki stol. Da ne bude zabune ovdje svakako iskljucujem svaku mogucnost unistenja Izraela kao drzave i Izraelaca kao naroda.jeza u ledja wrote:I, koliko su trajali ti sukobi, a koliko traje ovaj u Palestini? Razlika je ogromna.Drvosjeca iz Dejcica wrote: Zasto pokret otpora u Francuskoj i Jugoslaviji tokom IIWW nije umjesto oruzane borbe prihvatio mirnu politicku borbu, a svi ovi pkreti su naravi bili surovi i nemilosrdni? Zasto se Crvna armija nije mirnim metodama borila protiv Wermachta, sacuvali bi se milioni ljudskih zivota? Mislim da sada znas odgovor na svoja postavljena pitanja.
- bogoljub
- Posts: 2930
- Joined: 14/03/2008 19:20
- Location: Do you have a room tonight?
#405 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Kako bi ostao najmodernija i najmocnija zemlja Izrael do sada je dobijao godisnje 3 milijarde $ pomoci od Amerike i sve zapadne zemlje su ga pomagale. Ali sta se to desilo pa su 2006 god. dozivjeli poraz od jedne grupe Hezbollaha (samo jedne grupe).
Misljenja sam da samo oni koji su slabi cine zlocine prema drugim, jer drugacije se nemogu istaci.
Izrael se osramotio 2006. Mislim da je na pomolu nova bruka. Zivi bili pa vidjeli!
Misljenja sam da samo oni koji su slabi cine zlocine prema drugim, jer drugacije se nemogu istaci.
Izrael se osramotio 2006. Mislim da je na pomolu nova bruka. Zivi bili pa vidjeli!
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50305
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#406 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Jeste, Izrael se osramotio, u medjuvremenu sravnio sa zemljom gradove na jugu Libana, sjebao Bejrut, i sav napredak koji se tamo u medjuvremenu dogodio. Ja ne vidim da je iko tu bio na dobitku, osim Hezbollaha, kao sto ni u slucaju slicnog razvoja situacije u Gazi niko nece biti na stvarnom dobitku osim Hamasa.bogoljub wrote:Kako bi ostao najmodernija i najmocnija zemlja Izrael do sada je dobijao godisnje 3 milijarde $ pomoci od Amerike i sve zapadne zemlje su ga pomagale. Ali sta se to desilo pa su 2006 god. dozivjeli poraz od jedne grupe Hezbollaha (samo jedne grupe).
Misljenja sam da samo oni koji su slabi cine zlocine prema drugim, jer drugacije se nemogu istaci.
Izrael se osramotio 2006. Mislim da je na pomolu nova bruka. Zivi bili pa vidjeli!
- Lakat Jebić
- Posts: 8040
- Joined: 10/06/2008 15:47
#407 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
cinjenica je da je regularnim vojnim formacijama puno teze u jednoj vrsti gerilskog rata, kakav je bio 2006. hezbollah je to iskoristio, da li ce hamas vidjecemo....
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ld
- Posts: 1629
- Joined: 10/02/2008 00:16
- Location: daleko
#408 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
The first bombardment took three minutes and forty seconds. Sixty Israeli F-16 fighter jets bombed fifty sites in Gaza, killing over two hundred Palestinians, and wounding close to a thousand more.
A few hours after the deadly strike, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert convened a press conference in Tel-Aviv. With Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni sitting on his right and Defense Minister Ehud Barak on his left, he declared: “It may take time, and each and every one of us must be patient so we can complete the mission.”
But what exactly, one might ask, is Israel’s mission?
Although Olmert did not say as much, the “mission” includes four distinct objectives.
The first is the destruction of Hamas, a totally unrealistic goal. Even though the loss of hundreds of cadres and some key leaders will no doubt hurt the organization, Hamas is a robust political movement with widespread grassroots support, and it is unlikely to surrender or capitulate to Israeli demands following a military assault. Ironically, Israel’s attempt to destroy Hamas using military force has always ended up strengthening the organization, thus corroborating the notion that power produces its own vulnerability.
The second objective has to do with Israel’s upcoming elections. The assault on Gaza is also being carried out to help Kadima and Labor defeat Likud and its leader Benjamin Netanyhu, who is currently ahead in the polls. It is not coincidental that Netanyahu’s two main competitors, Livni and Barak, were invited to the press conference – since, after the assault, it will be more difficult for Netanyahu to characterize them as “soft” on the Palestinians. Whether or not the devastation in Gaza will help Livni defeat Netanyhu or help Barak gain votes in the February elections is difficult to say, but the strategy of competing with a warmonger like Netanyhu by beating the drums of war says a great deal about all three major contenders.
The third objective involves the Israeli military. After its notable humiliation in Lebanon during the summer of 2006, the IDF has been looking for opportunities to reestablish its global standing. Last Spring it used Syria as its laboratory and now it has decided to focus on Gaza. Emphasizing the mere three minutes and forty seconds it took to bomb fifty sites is just one the ways the Israeli military aims to restore its international reputation.
Finally, Hamas and Fatah have not yet reached an agreement regarding how to proceed when Mahmoud Abbas ends his official term as President of the Palestinian National Authority on January 9th, 2009. One of the outcomes of this assault is that Abbas will remain in power for a while longer since Hamas will be unable to mobilize its supporters in order to force him to resign.
What is clearly missing from this list of Israeli objectives is the attempt to halt the firing of Qassam rockets into Israel’s southern towns. Unlike the objectives I mentioned, which are not discussed by government officials, this one is presented by the government as the operation’s primary objective. Yet, the government is actively misleading the public, since Israel could have put an end to the rockets a long time ago. Indeed, there was relative quiet during the six-months truce with Hamas, a quiet that was broken most often as a reaction to Israeli violence: that is, following the extra-judicial execution of a militant or the imposition of a total blockade which prevented basic goods, like food stuff and medicine, from entering the Gaza Strip. Rather than continuing the truce, the Israeli government has once again chosen to adopt strategies of violence that are tragically akin to the one’s deployed by Hamas, only the Israeli ones are much more lethal.
If the Israeli government really cared about its citizens and the country’s long term ability to sustain itself in the Middle East, it would abandon the use of violence and talk with its enemies.
See more stories tagged with: israel, palestine, gaza, hamas
Neve Gordon is the chair of the Department of Politics and Government, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, and is the author of Israel’s Occupation, University of California Press, 2008. His website is http://www.israelsoccupation.info
A few hours after the deadly strike, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert convened a press conference in Tel-Aviv. With Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni sitting on his right and Defense Minister Ehud Barak on his left, he declared: “It may take time, and each and every one of us must be patient so we can complete the mission.”
But what exactly, one might ask, is Israel’s mission?
Although Olmert did not say as much, the “mission” includes four distinct objectives.
The first is the destruction of Hamas, a totally unrealistic goal. Even though the loss of hundreds of cadres and some key leaders will no doubt hurt the organization, Hamas is a robust political movement with widespread grassroots support, and it is unlikely to surrender or capitulate to Israeli demands following a military assault. Ironically, Israel’s attempt to destroy Hamas using military force has always ended up strengthening the organization, thus corroborating the notion that power produces its own vulnerability.
The second objective has to do with Israel’s upcoming elections. The assault on Gaza is also being carried out to help Kadima and Labor defeat Likud and its leader Benjamin Netanyhu, who is currently ahead in the polls. It is not coincidental that Netanyahu’s two main competitors, Livni and Barak, were invited to the press conference – since, after the assault, it will be more difficult for Netanyahu to characterize them as “soft” on the Palestinians. Whether or not the devastation in Gaza will help Livni defeat Netanyhu or help Barak gain votes in the February elections is difficult to say, but the strategy of competing with a warmonger like Netanyhu by beating the drums of war says a great deal about all three major contenders.
The third objective involves the Israeli military. After its notable humiliation in Lebanon during the summer of 2006, the IDF has been looking for opportunities to reestablish its global standing. Last Spring it used Syria as its laboratory and now it has decided to focus on Gaza. Emphasizing the mere three minutes and forty seconds it took to bomb fifty sites is just one the ways the Israeli military aims to restore its international reputation.
Finally, Hamas and Fatah have not yet reached an agreement regarding how to proceed when Mahmoud Abbas ends his official term as President of the Palestinian National Authority on January 9th, 2009. One of the outcomes of this assault is that Abbas will remain in power for a while longer since Hamas will be unable to mobilize its supporters in order to force him to resign.
What is clearly missing from this list of Israeli objectives is the attempt to halt the firing of Qassam rockets into Israel’s southern towns. Unlike the objectives I mentioned, which are not discussed by government officials, this one is presented by the government as the operation’s primary objective. Yet, the government is actively misleading the public, since Israel could have put an end to the rockets a long time ago. Indeed, there was relative quiet during the six-months truce with Hamas, a quiet that was broken most often as a reaction to Israeli violence: that is, following the extra-judicial execution of a militant or the imposition of a total blockade which prevented basic goods, like food stuff and medicine, from entering the Gaza Strip. Rather than continuing the truce, the Israeli government has once again chosen to adopt strategies of violence that are tragically akin to the one’s deployed by Hamas, only the Israeli ones are much more lethal.
If the Israeli government really cared about its citizens and the country’s long term ability to sustain itself in the Middle East, it would abandon the use of violence and talk with its enemies.
See more stories tagged with: israel, palestine, gaza, hamas
Neve Gordon is the chair of the Department of Politics and Government, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, and is the author of Israel’s Occupation, University of California Press, 2008. His website is http://www.israelsoccupation.info
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50305
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#409 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Nije rijec samo o rezolucijama vec o postivanju odluka UNa. To sam vec napisao.Air Ramiz wrote:
Pa sam sebe demantujes i logicki i cinjenicno. Generalno postivanje odluka znaci da odluke kojima te UN kritikuje, ili ogranicava da radis nesto lose protiv nekog drugog ispostujes, sto izrael nikad ne cini, od 65 odluka protiv Izraela da prestane sa nasiljem, okuacijama, zidom, humanitarnom blokadom, itd, Izrael se oglusio na sve i jednu.
Palestinci nisu nikad imali neku rezoluciju u kojoj se navodi da prestanu sa okupacijom, zidom, humanitarnom blokadom Izraela ili necim slicnim.
O tome je bila rijec, a ne o UN-ovoj odnosno amercko-jevrejskog odluci o osnivanju drzave na ustrb drugog naroda. Valjda si toliko inteligentan da ne brkas kruske i jabuke. Trpati tu odluku kao primjer nepostivanja UN-a od strane Palestinaca je van pameti, posto je ta odluka osnovni generator iraelskim zlocina. To je isto da kazes ljudima vi ne postujete odluku da vas od sada i ubuduce mozemo ubijat kako nam naumpadne. Ovdje je rijec o rezolucijama koje se ticu nasilja nad drugim, a ne nad samim sobom.
Air Ramiz wrote: Nije ni 20%, manje od tog. U svakom slucaju drago mi je da si priznao vlastitu izmisljotinu.
I mene optuzujes za guglanje?
Cionisti su imali X raznih planova. Nije postojao jedan fiksan plan.Apsolutno netacno. Ben Gurion i kongres cionista je nakon plana o podjeli javno rekao da je ta polovicna drzava samo pocetak i da mu je cilj stvaranje izraela u cjelini, a ne kao jedan dio i da ima obucene ljude koji ce to ostvarit. A sam cionisticki kongres je imao plan napravljen jos 45, kad su cionisti zakuhali s britancima. zato sam i rekao da nemas pojma o temi, jer su ovo elementarne stvari, pa mi je bilo naprosto smijesno da kazes kako izrael prihvata plan, a palestinci ne prihvataju. izrael je prihvatio plan ali samo kao odskocnu dasku za ciljeve koje su zacrtali mnogo ranije.
I ranije sam rekao da je njima bilo savrseno jasno da Arapi nece prihvatiti nikakvu podjelu i da ce to iskoristiti kao povod za dalje napade. To su radili poslije decenijama, a to rade i sad. Svaki put je glavni povod cinjenica da Palestinci ne priznaju drzavu Izrael Uporno govorim da im je to nacin na koji funkcionisu.
- _veleposlanik
- Posts: 998
- Joined: 23/02/2008 02:14
#410 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
jedna velika istinaGost123 wrote:izrael ne zeli pregovarati sa hamasom i slicnima koji ne priznaju sam izrael i postavili su cilj unistenje izraela. i u tome imaju podrsku svijeta, pa bila izravna ili presucena. svi palestinski politicari koji to ignoriraju imaju politicki mrtve ciljeve. hamas je jedan od takvih. ne radi se ni o kakvom opravdavanju sile, nego analizi situacije. najjaci u svijetu su postavili pravila politicke igre, borbe, djelovanja, promjena. znamo da se oni sami ne drze uvijek tih pravila, ali svi manji narodi, poput palestinaca i nas, i mnogih manjih naroda u svijetu moramo igrati po tim pravilima. politicari koji to shvate su realni politicari.BaileyS wrote: Opet se vracamo na isto, da Izrael ne zeli razgovore i vrsi blokadu okupirane teritorije.
Problem je prije svega jer Izrael ne priznaje medjunarodno priznate granice. Da bi mogli traziti da ih neko prizna trebali bi npr. odustati od okupiranih teritorija i dozvoliti povratak izbjeglica. Ni u jednom mirovnom sporazumu na svijetu ne trazi se zabrana povratka izbjeglih a eto Izrael je i po tome iznimak. Nisu ni nas priznavali raznorazni agresori pa smo opet bili prinudjeni pricati s njima. Sve ovo sto ti navodis je shuplje opravdavanje sile.
@Madner: izvini sto te citirah, neces vise imati priliku za razgovor sa ovom budalom. veselo ti bilo.
- Latina
- Posts: 5492
- Joined: 19/08/2006 01:47
- Location: I'd ratha' be hated 4 who I am, than loved 4 who I'm not.
#411 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Ima slicnosti, ali se bojim da je ovo mnogo gore. Izrael odavno ne dozvoljava da ljudi u Gazi dobiju hranu i lijekove, vecina ih bukvalno prosi od UN snaga. Sada ih udaraju stotinama tona iz zraka. Ovo je apsolutni uzas i humanitarna katastrofa.sheilak wrote: Zasto me to sve podsjeca na Bosnu?
Fotografije iz Gaze
p.s. : pogledaj izraz lica djeteta na prvoj slici...nevjerovatno. Kao da kaze "I couldn't care less."
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pure_love
- Posts: 1489
- Joined: 11/11/2008 09:30
#412 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
ako ikada u buducnosti pravda dodje po svoje,istorija ce Izrael opisati na 100 puta gori nacin nego sto danas opisuje Hitlera i tadasnju Njemacku
zivi bili pa vidjeli!
zivi bili pa vidjeli!
- Point.
- Posts: 33133
- Joined: 28/10/2008 00:24
- Location: Bagni di Lucca
#413 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Meni ne ide u glavu da postoje osobe koje podrzavaju ovakvo izivljavanje izraela. Ne samo sad, nego od pocetka stvaranja ove fasisticke tvorevine.
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50305
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#414 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Boze sacuvaj sta se radi s ljudima. 
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Edin 24,5
- Posts: 447
- Joined: 31/08/2008 17:36
#415 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Iako mislim da dovoljno dobro razumijem prirodu izraelsko-palestinskog konflikta, jedan snazan poriv za samoodbranom unutar izraelskog naroda pod geslom "nikad vise" i "niko nas nece sacuvati do mi sami sebe", kao i duboko ukorijenjen mentalitet mucenistva unutar palestinskog naroda pod motom "do posljednje kapi krvi do palestinske slobode", ali i drugih politickih ciljeva koji u radikalnom dijelu negiraju postojanje i samog Izraela , ipak moram nazvati stvari pravim imenom:
Ovo sto Izrael radi je cisti sadizam najokrutnijeg oblika. Mi mozemo pricati sta hocemo ali za ovo sto rade ne postoji opravdanje. Bas nikakvo.
Ovo sto Izrael radi je cisti sadizam najokrutnijeg oblika. Mi mozemo pricati sta hocemo ali za ovo sto rade ne postoji opravdanje. Bas nikakvo.
- Ahmmed
- Posts: 4273
- Joined: 21/09/2005 22:28
#416 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Evo, već treći dan bih htio da napišem nešto suvislo.....
I ne uspijeva mi....
I ne uspijeva mi....
- BarbaDue
- Posts: 65015
- Joined: 03/02/2008 22:28
- Location: pogledaj iza sebe
#417 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
ne znam sta bi napisao, ali zato mogu da razumim te ljude tamo, mogu da razumim njihovu dugogodisnju patnju i bol...
...i onda se nakon tolike njihove patnje i bola, ponizenja dođe neko i cudi sto se neki palestinac odluci na odmazdu i osvetu...

...i onda se nakon tolike njihove patnje i bola, ponizenja dođe neko i cudi sto se neki palestinac odluci na odmazdu i osvetu...
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50305
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#418 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
I najgore sto ovo traje od kad znamo za sebe. Svaki put isto. Pa nedavno smo govorili isto kad je bio napad na Liban. Svaki put - neshvatlljivo prekomjerno koristenje sile. Pitam se, da je neko drugi u njihovoj poziciji da li bi se tako ponasao?
Kontam do cega je, je li do ogromne kolicine mrznje, je li do ogromne razlike u naoruzanju, je li do osjecaja nekog pravednosti, sindroma zrtve, tvrdoglavosti ili misle da su bogom dani da se izivljavaju nad narodom. Sta god da je, nadam se da ce jednog dana doci tobe, jer od ovog niko nema stvarne koristi, a sigurno ne narod koji gine.
Kontam do cega je, je li do ogromne kolicine mrznje, je li do ogromne razlike u naoruzanju, je li do osjecaja nekog pravednosti, sindroma zrtve, tvrdoglavosti ili misle da su bogom dani da se izivljavaju nad narodom. Sta god da je, nadam se da ce jednog dana doci tobe, jer od ovog niko nema stvarne koristi, a sigurno ne narod koji gine.
- Latina
- Posts: 5492
- Joined: 19/08/2006 01:47
- Location: I'd ratha' be hated 4 who I am, than loved 4 who I'm not.
#419 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Tekst koji moram ponoviti:
There comes a time when silence is betrayal
Today I end my support of Israel
by Chilean Jew
Sun Dec 28, 2008 at 11:07:48 AM PST
Like davidminzer, I'm Jewish and descendant of holocaust survivors. Moreover, I've been a Zionist all of my life. I went to a Zionist school, I was active in Zionist youth groups. I've always been a fervent supporter of Israel as a refuge for Jews around the world who seek a place to exercise their traditions and embrace their identity in peace.
I sang the Israeli anthem in the train rails of Aushwitz-Birkenau and I pledged to fight every day of my life to make sure the savage crimes that had taken place there would never happen again. Every year I pledged: Never Again. Remember and Never forget.
Well, I haven't forgotten. And so to honor that pledge, to honor the memory of my family members who died in those death camps and because "there comes a time when silence is betrayal", today I finally and publicly end my support for the state of Israel.
Chilean Jew's diary :: ::
I do this with great pain in my heart, but nonetheless with the overwhelming conviction that it is the only right thing to do. I was patient:
I tolerated the destruction of the Oslo process by refusing to end or slow down the constant and criminal construction of settlements.
I held my nose and stood my ground when Barak killed the final status negotiations at Taba 2001. I even remained loyal after Sharon's massacres in the West Bank, the brutal Annexation wall, the illegal "selective assassinations" and Olmert's war crimes in Lebanon.
I had to defend Israel and Israelis with my friends and others who demanded I be consistent with my progressive views and oppose a country that was responsible for horrible crimes against innocent human beings. "Israelis are scared, they are traumatized, you have to understand...", "Israel is responding to attacks on itself, tell me one other country that wouldn't respond when attacked...", I demanded understanding, I pleaded for a fair and comparative analysis.
ENOUGH. I'm done justifying crimes against humanity by a country that claims to be an illuminated western democracy. I'm done defending a country that is unwilling to grant self-determination to a neighboring people because it won't let go of a few settlements and divide a city. I'm done tolerating the slaughtering of innocent kids, the murderous and barbaric occupation of an impoverished people, the utter disregard for human life.
Fuck them.
If they think their daily peace of mind is worth the lives of hundreds of innocent people, Fuck them.
If they think the best way to go right now would be to vote for Natanyahu (who is so far winning in the polls), Fuck them.
If they won't bat an eye before keeping millions without electricity or water, before bombing civilian neighborhoods at exactly the time when kids are leaving schools, before breaking every standard of international law or moral decency, Fuck them.
It's time for every true progressive in this country and around the world to do the only thing that our consciences should allow us to do, the only thing that can keep us consistent with our supposed beliefs that human life is precious and that unnecessary violence is always criminal, barbarous and unacceptable. We must demand that Israel stop violence and immediately put an end to its colonialist military occupation of Palestine.
And until they do so, we must organize and do everything we can to make sure our money is not financing mass murder and oppression.
It is time for the progressive movement to demand immediate Divestment from Israel, just like we divested from other oppressive states like South Africa.
The only reason not to do so is willful hypocrisy.
And I don't know about you, but I'm done being a hypocrite.
Unnecessary murder of innocents is always wrong.
Selfish and unjustifiable occupation is always wrong.
Inaction in the face of massive suffering and injustice is always wrong.
It is thus our responsibility to make sure Obama and the rest of our leaders understand that this time we will be relentless, this time we mean business and this time we will honor our pledges.
NEVER AGAIN!
DIVEST NOW!
Peace
Salaam
Shalom
Laku noc
Allahimanet
Bog vam pomogao
There comes a time when silence is betrayal
Today I end my support of Israel
by Chilean Jew
Sun Dec 28, 2008 at 11:07:48 AM PST
Like davidminzer, I'm Jewish and descendant of holocaust survivors. Moreover, I've been a Zionist all of my life. I went to a Zionist school, I was active in Zionist youth groups. I've always been a fervent supporter of Israel as a refuge for Jews around the world who seek a place to exercise their traditions and embrace their identity in peace.
I sang the Israeli anthem in the train rails of Aushwitz-Birkenau and I pledged to fight every day of my life to make sure the savage crimes that had taken place there would never happen again. Every year I pledged: Never Again. Remember and Never forget.
Well, I haven't forgotten. And so to honor that pledge, to honor the memory of my family members who died in those death camps and because "there comes a time when silence is betrayal", today I finally and publicly end my support for the state of Israel.
Chilean Jew's diary :: ::
I do this with great pain in my heart, but nonetheless with the overwhelming conviction that it is the only right thing to do. I was patient:
I tolerated the destruction of the Oslo process by refusing to end or slow down the constant and criminal construction of settlements.
I held my nose and stood my ground when Barak killed the final status negotiations at Taba 2001. I even remained loyal after Sharon's massacres in the West Bank, the brutal Annexation wall, the illegal "selective assassinations" and Olmert's war crimes in Lebanon.
I had to defend Israel and Israelis with my friends and others who demanded I be consistent with my progressive views and oppose a country that was responsible for horrible crimes against innocent human beings. "Israelis are scared, they are traumatized, you have to understand...", "Israel is responding to attacks on itself, tell me one other country that wouldn't respond when attacked...", I demanded understanding, I pleaded for a fair and comparative analysis.
ENOUGH. I'm done justifying crimes against humanity by a country that claims to be an illuminated western democracy. I'm done defending a country that is unwilling to grant self-determination to a neighboring people because it won't let go of a few settlements and divide a city. I'm done tolerating the slaughtering of innocent kids, the murderous and barbaric occupation of an impoverished people, the utter disregard for human life.
Fuck them.
If they think their daily peace of mind is worth the lives of hundreds of innocent people, Fuck them.
If they think the best way to go right now would be to vote for Natanyahu (who is so far winning in the polls), Fuck them.
If they won't bat an eye before keeping millions without electricity or water, before bombing civilian neighborhoods at exactly the time when kids are leaving schools, before breaking every standard of international law or moral decency, Fuck them.
It's time for every true progressive in this country and around the world to do the only thing that our consciences should allow us to do, the only thing that can keep us consistent with our supposed beliefs that human life is precious and that unnecessary violence is always criminal, barbarous and unacceptable. We must demand that Israel stop violence and immediately put an end to its colonialist military occupation of Palestine.
And until they do so, we must organize and do everything we can to make sure our money is not financing mass murder and oppression.
It is time for the progressive movement to demand immediate Divestment from Israel, just like we divested from other oppressive states like South Africa.
The only reason not to do so is willful hypocrisy.
And I don't know about you, but I'm done being a hypocrite.
Unnecessary murder of innocents is always wrong.
Selfish and unjustifiable occupation is always wrong.
Inaction in the face of massive suffering and injustice is always wrong.
It is thus our responsibility to make sure Obama and the rest of our leaders understand that this time we will be relentless, this time we mean business and this time we will honor our pledges.
NEVER AGAIN!
DIVEST NOW!
Peace
Salaam
Shalom
Laku noc
Allahimanet
Bog vam pomogao
- zgembo_sa
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: 10/03/2008 20:50
#420 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Mene samo zanima, kako neko ima duse pa reci da su ona tri djeteta iz iste porodice koja su poginula u teroristickom aktu cionista sama kriva za to... jesu li oni teroristi??? Je li ona mala djevojcica terorista? Jel to borba protiv terorizma??? Kako to neko moze opravdavati i mirno spavati??? Kako vas nije strah da vas jednog dana to isto ne zadesi?
Kakvi pregovori, kakvi dogovori sa tim zivotinjama cionistima??? Pa nema tu kompromisa. Jel kompromis u tome da palestinci samo odaberu hoce li umrijeti na svojoj zemlji ili ce ih protjerati van nje??? Jel vam to kompromis? Je li, lazni demokrati??? Kako samo pojmovi prava i pravde postaju fleksibilni kad treba opravdati fasizam! A ovo sto rade cionisti je najcistiji fasizam!
Kakvi pregovori, kakvi dogovori sa tim zivotinjama cionistima??? Pa nema tu kompromisa. Jel kompromis u tome da palestinci samo odaberu hoce li umrijeti na svojoj zemlji ili ce ih protjerati van nje??? Jel vam to kompromis? Je li, lazni demokrati??? Kako samo pojmovi prava i pravde postaju fleksibilni kad treba opravdati fasizam! A ovo sto rade cionisti je najcistiji fasizam!
-
ulpinian
- Posts: 482
- Joined: 21/09/2007 23:45
#421 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
zgembo_sa wrote:Mene samo zanima, kako neko ima duse pa reci da su ona tri djeteta iz iste porodice koja su poginula u teroristickom aktu cionista sama kriva za to... jesu li oni teroristi??? Je li ona mala djevojcica terorista? Jel to borba protiv terorizma??? Kako to neko moze opravdavati i mirno spavati??? Kako vas nije strah da vas jednog dana to isto ne zadesi?
Kakvi pregovori, kakvi dogovori sa tim zivotinjama cionistima??? Pa nema tu kompromisa. Jel kompromis u tome da palestinci samo odaberu hoce li umrijeti na svojoj zemlji ili ce ih protjerati van nje??? Jel vam to kompromis? Je li, lazni demokrati??? Kako samo pojmovi prava i pravde postaju fleksibilni kad treba opravdati fasizam! A ovo sto rade cionisti je najcistiji fasizam!
-
ponosna_manjina
- Posts: 444
- Joined: 18/04/2006 13:05
#422 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Situacija vristi od nepravde i osjecaja nemoci i bijesa kada vidis koliko se ova nepravda i zlocin nad palestincima, u zapadnim medijima, i posljedicno u misljenju javnog mnijenja, pokusavaju izbalansirati kroz nekakvu raspodjelu krivice, pa cak i trazenju krivca na strani zrtve, a palestinci ovdje jesu zrtve. Slazem se da su svi ljudi - ljudi i da zivot ima jednaku vrijednost bez obzira na bilo kakvu pripadnost, ali bilo bi licemjerno ne uzeti u obzir da ove zrtve imaju imena i prezimena i da su to imena i prezimena palestinaca. To treba reci, to treba naglasiti, bez nepotrebnog gubljenja u apstraktnom pacifizmu ili opravdanjima pro & contra bilo koje vrste. Tek onda, na temeljima istine (koja govori cinjenicama i brojevima) treba traziti mir.
Nevjerovatna je kolicina licemjerja i podrzavanja zlocina kroz razna racionaliziranja, pokusaje opravdavanja, interpretiranje cinjenica samo iz jednog ugla ili na nacin koji odgovara samo vlastitim interesima. Slusam izjavu britanskog ministra vanjskih poslova gdje kaze otprilike ovako: "Napadi Hamasa na Izrael uzrokovali su odgovor izraelske vojske u kojima je zivote izgubio veliki broj ljudi". Dakle, gospodin je izjavio da je Hamas napao Izrael (poslao par raketa od kojih nije stradao niko), ali nije reko da je u izraelskom bombardovanju zivot izgubio veliki broj palestinaca, nego veliki broj ljudi. U ovakvim interpretacijama koje su istinite, ali nedorecene i manipulativne, lezi opasnost koja oblikuje stav vecine na Zapadu. Upravo ovakav stav omogucava prihvatanje logike jacega kao nesto zdravo za gotovo. Lako je biti jak prema slabijem i slab prema jacem. Cijela situacija me podsjeca na situaciju u kojoj osoba A osobi B opali cvoku, nakon cega osoba B izvadi pistolj i ubije osobu A, a mi zakljucimo da je krivica podjednaka jer da je osoba A provocirala i prva pocela (izostavivsi u potpunosti cinjenicu da je toj cvoki prethodilo to sto je osoba B oduzela sendvic osobi A).
Nije samo fasizam drzave Izrael i licemjerje Zapada protiv palestinaca, vec i korumpirane vlade arapskih zemalja i sto je najgore i jebeni Fatah koji u svemu ovome vlastiti politicki interes vidi prije nego stradanje vlastitog naroda.
O Hamasu nemam nikakvo dobro misljenje ali Hamas je ovdje posljedica a ne uzrok. Posljedica koja ce nazalost ojacati jer palestincima drugi izbor nije ostavljen.
Nevjerovatna je kolicina licemjerja i podrzavanja zlocina kroz razna racionaliziranja, pokusaje opravdavanja, interpretiranje cinjenica samo iz jednog ugla ili na nacin koji odgovara samo vlastitim interesima. Slusam izjavu britanskog ministra vanjskih poslova gdje kaze otprilike ovako: "Napadi Hamasa na Izrael uzrokovali su odgovor izraelske vojske u kojima je zivote izgubio veliki broj ljudi". Dakle, gospodin je izjavio da je Hamas napao Izrael (poslao par raketa od kojih nije stradao niko), ali nije reko da je u izraelskom bombardovanju zivot izgubio veliki broj palestinaca, nego veliki broj ljudi. U ovakvim interpretacijama koje su istinite, ali nedorecene i manipulativne, lezi opasnost koja oblikuje stav vecine na Zapadu. Upravo ovakav stav omogucava prihvatanje logike jacega kao nesto zdravo za gotovo. Lako je biti jak prema slabijem i slab prema jacem. Cijela situacija me podsjeca na situaciju u kojoj osoba A osobi B opali cvoku, nakon cega osoba B izvadi pistolj i ubije osobu A, a mi zakljucimo da je krivica podjednaka jer da je osoba A provocirala i prva pocela (izostavivsi u potpunosti cinjenicu da je toj cvoki prethodilo to sto je osoba B oduzela sendvic osobi A).
Nije samo fasizam drzave Izrael i licemjerje Zapada protiv palestinaca, vec i korumpirane vlade arapskih zemalja i sto je najgore i jebeni Fatah koji u svemu ovome vlastiti politicki interes vidi prije nego stradanje vlastitog naroda.
O Hamasu nemam nikakvo dobro misljenje ali Hamas je ovdje posljedica a ne uzrok. Posljedica koja ce nazalost ojacati jer palestincima drugi izbor nije ostavljen.
- zaratustra
- Posts: 485
- Joined: 28/07/2008 21:20
#423 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Her Flick wrote:izrael cini zlocine od 1948
i to im prolazi
meni samo nije jasno dokle ce vise svijet nasjedati na pricu o holkaustu, tipa jeste nas je 6 miliona nastradalo, a svijet kaze, jadni vi, dobro jadni mi i mi cemo sad malo samarati arape, zato sto smo jadni
kad ce neko vise reci, ok bio je holokaust ali to vam ne daje za pravo da jedan narod ugnjetavate 60 godina, i vi sami proizvodite samoubice, vi ste proizveli hamas
- Lawrence
- Posts: 202
- Joined: 16/04/2008 15:46
- Location: Arabia
#424 Re: Izrael je opet pocinio zlocin!!!
Na zalost, prijatelju, u pravu si, s tim sto je osoba B izvadila pistolj, ubila osobu A, a onda otisla kod njega kuci, pobila mu porodicu, srusila kucu i prerovala temelje iste.ponosna_manjina wrote: Cijela situacija me podsjeca na situaciju u kojoj osoba A osobi B opali cvoku, nakon cega osoba B izvadi pistolj i ubije osobu A, a mi zakljucimo da je krivica podjednaka jer da je osoba A provocirala i prva pocela (izostavivsi u potpunosti cinjenicu da je toj cvoki prethodilo to sto je osoba B oduzela sendvic osobi A).
- JThomas
- Posts: 69047
- Joined: 24/05/2008 15:01
- Location: Sic semper tyrannis
