Spor oko prikazivanja lika Muhammeda a.s.

[Macuser]

To kaze SDA, ali u BiH i u Hrvatskoj ima jos stranaka, koje nisu bazirane na nacionalnom i religijskom principu (SDA, HDZ i SDS to jesu). Sta kazu te druge stranke?

[vratnik]

Nije u redu uzeti lik poslanika kao podlogu za bilo kakvu sprdacinu.
Ali..
Kako da jedan prosjecan danac to zna? Pa mi imamo bosanaca koji zive pored muslimana (ili su muslimani) koji to ne znaju?
Ova prica kako su muslimanima svi poslanici isti je licemjerje, da je tako, non-stop bi bile neke demonstracije kad se vide sve slike Isusa, par ih je postirano.
A ove demonstracije su za mene samo dokaz muslimanske gluposti ili nemoci, proberite sami, ono sto vas manje pogadja. Postoje stvarno bitni problemi s kojim se jedan dio ummeta svaki dan susrece (CECENIJA!!!!), i za to se ne nalaze ni motode ni novac da se jadnicima pomogne. Ali kad se kritikuje poslanik (ako su svi isti, onda ga ne moram imenovati?), onda je to gore od Srebrenice, Markala, Cecenije, nepismenosti i gluposti.. Meni nije.
(Napisao Isus malim slovom pa editovao)

[water]

Nije u redu uzeti lik poslanika kao podlogu za bilo kakvu sprdacinu.
Ali..
Kako da jedan prosjecan danac to zna? Pa mi imamo bosanaca koji zive pored muslimana (ili su muslimani) koji to ne znaju?
Ova prica kako su muslimanima svi poslanici isti je licemjerje, da je tako, non-stop bi bile neke demonstracije kad se vide sve slike Isusa, par ih je postirano.
A ove demonstracije su za mene samo dokaz muslimanske gluposti ili nemoci, proberite sami, ono sto vas manje pogadja. Postoje stvarno bitni problemi s kojim se jedan dio ummeta svaki dan susrece (CECENIJA!!!!), i za to se ne nalaze ni motode ni novac da se jadnicima pomogne. Ali kad se kritikuje poslanik (ako su svi isti, onda ga ne moram imenovati?), onda je to gore od Srebrenice, Markala, Cecenije, nepismenosti i gluposti.. Meni nije.
(Napisao Isus malim slovom pa editovao)

ni meni Vratnik, ni meni ako ti to ista znaci

[Macuser]

Toliko razaranja, destrukcije, ubijanja zbog...crteza. Koja oda ljudskoj gluposti i primitivizmu.

[taxi_driver]

zar ne viditi da je sve to zavjera CIA i amricke administracije. Licno znam agenta CIA(ne ja nego jaran mog jarana) koji je financirao Danske novine da objave ove karikature. Sve u cilju novog rata sa Iranom. Naime americke vojno industrijskin rezim vidi mogucnost oko 150 triliona dolara zarade ako se otvori novi front sa Iranom. Osim toga racuna se da bi se moglo u tom ratu unistiti ok 250 miliona muslimana sto bi bilo dovoljno da se zastiti njihov natalitet. I ovdje u Americi stvari postaju gutavije. Moja zena me zvala na posao i kaze da joj se cini da nam je kuca pod prismotrom. Ja sam planirao da iskoristim pobjedu Stillersa da i sam izadjem i zapalim koje cionisticko auto, ali je pomalo hladno ovdje. Nisam ti ja bog zna kakav Musliman. Ali svakako pomno pratim spisak fatwi i evo i sam imam nekoliko prijedloga da bi se stavilo na listu ako je moguce. Da pocnemo sa nekolicinom anamonih sa foruma. Zasto ne.

i amerika je svasta pustala da se useli u nju.nedaj mi boze takvog gosta.jarane jesi li ti svjestan sta pises?da nije tragicno ovo bi bio najsmjesniji post koji sam procitao na forumu.

[Macuser]

@taxi-driver

pa covjek se ocigledno zajebava. Ironican do daske.

[water]

seki je to

[musa_2004]

X

[sojka]

Nazalost iskustvo uci (bar mene) da su upravo ti ironicni najosjetljiviji kada se ironija (ogledalo) okrenu i na njihov racun.

To mozemo ostaviti po strani mislim da je ironija deplasirana na mjestima rijesenja koji traze mnogo vise. Ironija i tolerancija ne idu ruku pod ruku, kao ni rijesenja. Podsmijeha smo siti.

[Fair Life]

Toliko razaranja, destrukcije, ubijanja zbog...crteza. Koja oda ljudskoj gluposti i primitivizmu.

Panislamizam na djelu...

[water]

Nazalost iskustvo uci (bar mene) da su upravo ti ironicni najosjetljiviji kada se ironija (ogledalo) okrenu i na njihov racun.

To mozemo ostaviti po strani mislim da je ironija deplasirana na mjestima rijesenja koji traze mnogo vise. Ironija i tolerancija ne idu ruku pod ruku, kao ni rijesenja. Podsmijeha smo siti.

Ironije ce biti dokle i gluposti. Rijesenje je u stavari jednostavno. Svako se treba okrenuti sebi, pogledati u sebe, i upitati se sta ja (mi) mogu uciniti da ovaj svijet bude bolji. Neka svako od nas ucini nesto malo i ovaj svijet ce biti bolje mjesto. U medjuvremenu ne zamjeri na malo ironije.

[sojka]

Drago mi je. Ja sam sojka.
Na ovom mjestu ironija je i vise nego deplasirana. I upravo ta ironija cini svijet daleko gorim. Satirika politicara i mase.

Da analiziramo sliku 2 novonastala fronta.

Danska ekipa je frapirana posljedicama i sokirana reakcijama. Islam biva doveden u sasvim pogresno svjetlo i slika o njemu. Dakle Islam vazi za ne samo primitivizam, nego terorizam. A nije, nego njegova zloupotreba

Za neke Islamske zemlje samo potvrda teorije Zavjere i stalnog ataka na Islam, nepostovanja.

Pitanje je kako sprovesti najefektivniju komunikaciju, pri cemu ironija nikako ne moze biti sredstvo.

A rijesenje je komplexno, ali ne i nemoguce.

[kojsino]

Tipican primjer kako mozes zapaliti mase, sa bilo cim, kao kod nas nacionalizmom
i onda jednostavnom manipulacijom,
kao i sada sa ovim karikaturama koje su jos od septembra prosle godine,
dirigujes situacijom,
uz obostranu korist i ISTOKA i ZAPADA !!!

[Qwert]

Koja je razlika izmedju nekog ko manipulise, odnosno zloupotrebljava slobodu misljenja ili izrazavanja od nekog ko manipulise ili zloupotrebljava tudja vjerovanja ili ubjedjenja?

Nikakva.

[danas]

iz danasnjeg guardiana...

Jerusalem Post publishes Muhammad cartoons

Gwladys Fouché
Monday February 6, 2006

The Jerusalem Post today became the first Israeli newspaper to publish the controversial Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad that have sparked furore across the Muslim world.

A facsimile of the original page from the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten, in which all twelve cartoons were published, on September 30, is featured in today's edition of the paper.

The image is one column wide and about two-and-a-half inches high, on page six of today's paper, in an article about the weekend protests against the cartoons across the Islamic world.

It is also available on the Jerusalem Post digital edition, available to paying subscribers only, but not on the paper's free-access website.

The Jerusalem Post did not wish to comment on its decision to publish when it was contacted today by MediaGuardian.co.uk.

But in an editorial published today, entitled "The Prophet's Honor", the paper contrasts the outcry that the Danish cartoons are causing in the Muslim world, while "Arab cartoonists routinely demonise Jews as global conspirators, corrupters of society and blood-suckers".

"Arab political 'humour' knows no bounds," the Jerusalem Post editorial said. "A cartoon in Qatar's Al-Watan depicted prime minister Ariel Sharon drinking from a goblet of Palestinian children's blood. Another, in the Egyptian Al-Ahram al-Arabi, showed him jackbooted, bloody-handed and crushing peace."

The editorial added: "There are those who would argue that the controversy does not reflect a clash of civilisations. Yet it is precisely this persistent refusal to acknowledge the obvious that weakens the cause of tolerance and liberty. Must 'understanding' invariably result in the abdication of western values?

"If anyone wants to appreciate why the west views with such suspicion the weapons programmes of Muslim states such as Iran, they need look no further than the intolerance Muslim regimes exhibit to these cartoons, and what this portends.

"No one wants to add fuel to the fire. Mobs are more easily placated than reasoned with. But once this controversy passes it will be valuable to determine just who exploited the flap to foment anti-Western outrage, and to inquire what 'moderate' Muslim voices said.

"Globalism demands that points of contact between Islam and the west be multi-cultural havens, not flashpoints. For that to happen, tolerance must be a two-way street."

link: http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/ ... 29,00.html

[taxi_driver]

Nazalost iskustvo uci (bar mene) da su upravo ti ironicni najosjetljiviji kada se ironija (ogledalo) okrenu i na njihov racun.

To mozemo ostaviti po strani mislim da je ironija deplasirana na mjestima rijesenja koji traze mnogo vise. Ironija i tolerancija ne idu ruku pod ruku, kao ni rijesenja. Podsmijeha smo siti.

Ironije ce biti dokle i gluposti. Rijesenje je u stavari jednostavno. Svako se treba okrenuti sebi, pogledati u sebe, i upitati se sta ja (mi) mogu uciniti da ovaj svijet bude bolji. Neka svako od nas ucini nesto malo i ovaj svijet ce biti bolje mjesto. U medjuvremenu ne zamjeri na malo ironije.

ova tema nije za ironiju cini mi se.vec je pet ljudi ubijeno zbog crteza.

[taxi_driver]

i da dodam ,pored pojedinih natpisa koji se ovdje pojavljuju ne kontam kad je neko ironican

[Macuser]

Ovo je jedan djeciji crtez. Evo, sad neka neko docrta fes ili turban i otvorit ce Pandorinu kutiju. A crtez sam po sebi - bezazlen.

[Fair Life]

i da dodam ,pored pojedinih natpisa koji se ovdje pojavljuju ne kontam kad je neko ironican

Vala bas...

[danas]

evo jos malo iz guardiana...

Child's tale led to clash of cultures

· Diplomatic brush-off provoked Arab storm
· Imams toured Middle East with offending cartoons

Luke Harding in Berlin
Saturday February 4, 2006
The Guardian

It began innocuously enough. Last year the Danish writer Kare Bluitgen had been searching for someone who could illustrate his children's book about the life of the prophet Muhammad. It soon became clear, however, that nobody wanted the job, through fear of antagonising Muslim feelings about images of Muhammad.

One artist turned down the commission on the grounds that he didn't want to suffer the same grisly fate as Theo van Gogh, the Dutch film-maker stabbed to death by an Islamist fanatic. Two others also declined. "They were worried," Mr Bluitgen said, adding: "Eventually someone agreed to do it anonymously."

Mr Bluitgen's trouble prompted several Danish newspapers, including the best-selling Jyllands-Posten (Jutland Post), to begin a debate. How far should Denmark go down the road of self-censorship? And was freedom of speech more important than Muslim sensitivities?

On September 30 the paper's editor, Carsten Juste, launched his own provocative experiment, commissioning and publishing 12 cartoonists who had come up with their own satirical drawings of the prophet Muhammad.

The results were mixed. Most weren't very funny. One was clearly offensive, depicting a bearded Muhammad with his turban transformed into a fizzing bomb. Another showed a queue of ragged suicide bombers arriving in heaven, only for Muhammad to tell them: "Stop, stop, we've run out of virgins." Either way, the drawings were to set a fuse that would eventually ignite across the Arab world, sparking protests in the Middle East, and plunging Denmark into one of the most serious diplomatic crises in its history.

Death threats

At first, though, the outrage was local. Several thousand Danish Muslims protested. Three of the cartoonists received death threats; security guards were posted outside the newspaper's offices in Copenhagen and Arhus.

"Nobody saw this coming," Jan Lund, the paper's foreign editor admitted yesterday. "We didn't think the cartoons had crossed any line. Some people thought it was a good idea to publish, others didn't." He added: "We are the biggest newspaper in Denmark. We have always been the enfant terrible of the Danish press. Our cartoonists have made fun of politicians, Jesus and the Virgin Mary."

What should have remained a parochial row was to blow up into an international incident, largely because of the perceived obdurate response of Denmark's centre-right prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen. On October 19 ambassadors from Islamic countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, demanded a meeting. They wanted the paper prosecuted. The PM gave them the brush-off, arguing that his government could not interfere with the right to free speech.

At this point a group of ultra-conservative Danish imams decided to take matters into their own hands, setting off on an ambitious tour of Saudi Arabia and Egypt with a dossier containing the inflammatory cartoons.

According to Jyllands-Posten, the imams from the organisation Islamisk Trossamfund took three other mysteriously unsourced drawings as well, showing Muhammad with the face of a pig; a dog sodomising a praying Muslim; and Muhammad as a paedophile. "This was pure disinformation. We never published them," Lund complained. But the campaign worked. Outwardly the row appeared to be calming down. But in Muslim cyber-chatrooms, on blogs, and across the internet, outrage was building fast.

From Denmark, the pictures were being pinged by SMS from Kuwait to Palestine. Then last week came the diplomatic explosion. Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador from Denmark for consultations, Libya shut its embassy.

Boycott

At the same time a boycott of Danish goods began across the Middle East, with protesters in Bahrain burning Danish cheese. A Danish milk factory in Riyadh was forced to close; there were demonstrations in Baghdad; strikes in Pakistan; and flag-burning in Gaza.

At this critical point the Danish PM decided to intervene. On Monday, Mr Rasmussen conceded the debate had moved on from an abstract argument about freedom of speech, and expressed his regret at the offence caused to millions of Muslims. The paper at the centre of the row also said sorry. In an open letter posted on its website in English and Arabic, it recognised that it had "indisputably offended many Muslims". But by this stage it was too late. The row was escalating into the most serious confrontation over free speech between Europe and the Middle East since the Salman Rushdie affair.

Outraged by what they regarded as Denmark's "caving in", several rightwing European newspapers decided it was time to demonstrate solidarity. On Wednesday, France Soir republished the caricatures under the defiant headline: "Yes, We Have the Right to Caricature God" - a gesture that led to the sacking of the paper's editor the next day. Separately, Germany's Die Welt slapped the turban-bomb Muhammad cartoon on its front page.

"It's the core of our culture that the most sacred things can be subjected to criticism, laughter and satire," Roger Köppel, Die Welt's editor-in-chief, told the Guardian. The Arab world was guilty of "hypocrisy", the paper said. Other newspapers in Italy, Spain and Switzerland - though not Britain - followed suit. The consequences were most vivid in the West Bank where dozens of masked Palestinian gunmen stormed the EU's building in the Gaza strip, standing on the roof next to the EU's starry blue flag. The gunmen also seized a 21-year-old German from a Nablus hotel. He was later released.

There were ominous reverberations too in Iraq. Radical Islamists pronounced a fatwa against the 500-strong Danish garrison in southern Iraq; there were fresh attacks on churches in Baghdad and Kirkuk. The fate of two German engineers kidnapped last month is unclear.

Back in Denmark, journalists at Jyllands-Posten, where there was a bomb threat on Tuesday, concede the storm is unlikely to die down soon. "Most of the 200,000 Muslims in Denmark are integrated. You have a minority of rightwing imams who are trying to stir things up," Lund reflected. "We are talking about 1%."

Did he have any regrets? "We apologised for hurting the feelings of a lot of Muslims in this. But we don't apologise for printing the cartoons."

[Macuser]

Kako Islam vide u svijetu:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

[Fair Life]

Kako Islam vide u svijetu:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

[zzzzz]

Kako Islam vide u svijetu:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

Vidim koja si i ti sorta kad posjecujes ovakve stranice.

[danas]

Kako Islam vide u svijetu:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

Vidim koja si i ti sorta kad posjecujes ovakve stranice.

da li je neka od prikazanih fotografija sa protesta lazna, ili je foto-montaza?

[Macuser]

Kako Islam vide u svijetu:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm

Vidim koja si i ti sorta kad posjecujes ovakve stranice.

Opet se namece misljenje i donosi sud. Nisu to sajtovi koje posjecujem, ali ovo je image koji Islam ima u zapadnom svijetu i blago receno, zabrinjavajuci je.