zivota mi ne razumijem zasto su neki protiv marama
a nisu protiv karakteristicnih nosnji nekih drugih naroda.
Vidim svaki dan ovdje ove iz Indije,Srilanke i Izraela u njihovim
tradicionalnim nosnjama i nikome nesmetaju,al marama bas trn u oku.Zasto?
Blair: Muslimanski veo je oznaka razdvajanja
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crnileptir
- Posts: 81
- Joined: 14/08/2006 21:58
#327
Pošto ni ti ni Lucy niste izgleda pratili temu od početka tema je počela od izjava Blaira i Strawa koji su govorili protiv pokrivanja muslimanki što je u najmanju ruku sumnjivo da se dvojica prvih ljudi jedne države bave jednim tako nevažnim pitanjem, eho tih izjava odjeknuo je u cijeloj Britaniji i cijelom svijetu, u Britanoiji su počeli pojedinačni incidenti, otpuštane su muslimanke koje su bile pokrivene, listovi su se podjelili i počela su pisanja pro i kontra, a ta tema se prenijela i u Italiju , Francusku, oglasio se i sellman Rushdi,govorilo se o tome da su muslimani strano tijelo u Evropi, sve se to prenijelo čak na Albaniju, i na SAD a eto desilo de onda i ubistvo za koje i novinar, i članovi porodice i ta Afganistanska organizacija smatraju da su djelo zbog vjerske mržnje...ja sam iz Krajine, 5 korpus i nikad se nisam osjećao ugrožen i nas niko nikad ni ne može ugroziti...eto vam podataka, gledajte, pa možete se ili složiti ili ne, do vas je, ja sam naveo oko desetak izjava, znači dokumentovao sam i iz toga izvukao zaključak-mislim da je tačan, al ako vi ne mislite to je vaše oravo...samo mrzim kad na kraju ili samom kraju rasprave neko dodje i kaže ..a šta ti pričaš sada odjednom itd itd?
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pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
- Location: Steelers Nation
#328
jedna buudala se nadje i ubije jednu nesretnu zenu (iz bilo kojeg razloga) i ti odmah zakljucis da je posrjedi organizovana kampanja 
da zivis u USA znao bi vrlo dobro ( a i vidio svojim ocima) da pokrivene zene na ulici niko poprjeko i ne pogleda. Za englesku i francusku ne znam je rnisam tamo.
da zivis u USA znao bi vrlo dobro ( a i vidio svojim ocima) da pokrivene zene na ulici niko poprjeko i ne pogleda. Za englesku i francusku ne znam je rnisam tamo.-
crnileptir
- Posts: 81
- Joined: 14/08/2006 21:58
#329
Ne znam pitte kojim ja jezikom pišem ili ti pročitaš samo jednu moju rečenicu pa je i komentiraš...naveo sam desetak vijesti, dokaza za svoju tvrdnju ili neku prvotnu zamisao o organizovanoj kampanji, i predvidio da će doći ili do terorističkog napada zbog provokacija što oni žele jer potreban je teroristički napad i Britaniji I SAD-u tj republikancima jer bez toga Republikanci gube izbore koji su za sedmicu dana, a ako si tamo znaš nešto o tome...takodje to je potrebno i Britaniji jer zbog gubitaka u Afganistanu raste sve više nezadovoljstvo Britanaca zbog prisustva njihovih snaga u Afganistanu a to je stav i njihovih generala... a bez rata nema nafte i nema razvoja vojne industrije..u ovom svijetu ovako nakaradnom ništa se ne dešava slučajno i iza najmanjih siznica kriju se dublji planovi i procesi...često nekinaizgled sitni i nevažni dogadjaj izazove dogadjaj krupnijih razmjera...možda se nekomo ovo čini paranoično, ali takve se stvari nama muslimanima stalno dogadjaju i duboko i bolno smo ih svjesni... zbog toga je bila potrebna provokacija i ta provokacija je urodila plodom u cijelom svijetu...tamo u SAD-u tj u San Francisku ti ljudi smatraju da je to rezultat vjerske mržnje kao što se vidi iz teksta i ja sam na to upozorio
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mandy
- Posts: 91
- Joined: 29/08/2006 15:47
#330
ne mora znaciti da je ubistvo ove jadne bilo na vjerskoj osnovi,pitt wrote:jedna buudala se nadje i ubije jednu nesretnu zenu (iz bilo kojeg razloga) i ti odmah zakljucis da je posrjedi organizovana kampanja
ali je cinjenica da je velika kampanja na islam u svijetu.
Ovdje nema dana da ne bude nesto na tv za islam i to nista pozitivno.
Sta im je,kao da su zaljubljeni u islam
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MuaDib
- Posts: 4056
- Joined: 28/10/2006 23:25
- Location: Sarajevo
#331
Ovakva me logika nervira! Svi protiv islama! Ali je jedna istina da su muslimani sami krivi što ih tako doživljavaju na zapadu, umjesto da se ujedine, da školuju svoj narod, da više pažnje posvete iskonskom učenju islama, šejci, emiri i razni diktatori zovu SAD da štite njihov režim, po cjenu jeftine prodaje nafte. Neškoluju narod kako ih ne bi skinuo i stvaraju pogodno tlo za razvoj terorističkih organizacija, koje ne krive svoje šeike i emire za situaciju u kojoj se nalaze već ameriku koja je u njihovim zemljama napravila baze.mandy wrote:ne mora znaciti da je ubistvo ove jadne bilo na vjerskoj osnovi,pitt wrote:jedna buudala se nadje i ubije jednu nesretnu zenu (iz bilo kojeg razloga) i ti odmah zakljucis da je posrjedi organizovana kampanja
ali je cinjenica da je velika kampanja na islam u svijetu.
Ovdje nema dana da ne bude nesto na tv za islam i to nista pozitivno.
Sta im je,kao da su zaljubljeni u islam
PS Irak isključujem iz ove konstatacije..
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pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
- Location: Steelers Nation
#332
procitaj kako je muslimanima u USA (u poredjenju sa evropom) , pa onda pricaj.
THE MELTING POT
Stars, Stripes, Crescent
A reassuring portrait of America's Muslims.
BY BRET STEPHENS AND JOSEPH RAGO
Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT
Ever since it became clear that three of the four jihadis who bombed London on July 7 were born and bred in England, the British have been taking a hard look at their Muslim neighbors: Do they share the same values? How do they fare economically? Whom do they cheer when England plays Pakistan at cricket? And how many more would-be bombers are among them?
As it happens, Her Majesty's government was well clued on these questions before the bombers struck: A 2004 Home Office study showed, for example, that British Muslims are three times likelier to be unemployed than the wider population, that their rates of civic participation are low, and that as many as 26% do not feel loyal to Britain. By contrast, the U.S. Census Bureau is forbidden by law from keeping figures on religious identification (although it collects voluminous information on race and ethnicity), so there are no authoritative data on the size and nature of America's Muslim population. Yet if the U.S. is ever attacked by American jihadis, we will no doubt ask the same questions about our Muslim community that Britons are now asking about theirs.
Here is what we know.
First, let's dispose of the common misconception that Arab-Americans and Muslim Americans are one and the same. In fact, most Arab-Americans aren't Muslim, and most Muslim Americans aren't Arab. According to the 2000 census, there are 1.2 million Americans of Arab descent, of whom only 24% (according to a survey by the Arab American Institute) are Muslim. As for the rest, they are mainly Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant. They are also highly successful, with an above-average median household income of $52,000 and an astonishing intermarriage rate of over 75%, suggesting they are well on their way toward blending into the great American melting pot.
Information on American Muslims is sketchier. Thanks to a 2004 Zogby International survey, we know that a plurality of Muslim Americans--about one-third--are of South Asian descent; 26% are Arab and another 20% are American blacks. But until 2001 we had no idea how many Muslims lived in America, and even now the figure remains a matter of intense controversy. All major Muslim advocacy groups put the number at above six million, which, as Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum observes, has the convenience of being higher than the American Jewish population. Yet all independent surveys put the real figure at no more than three million, while the most credible study to date, by Tom Smith of the University of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center, estimates total Muslim population at 1,886,000. "[It] is hard to accept that Muslims are greater than one percent of the population," he writes.
Whatever the real figure, what's reasonably clear is that Muslim Americans, like Arab-Americans, have fared well in the U.S. The Zogby survey found that 59% of American Muslims have at least an undergraduate education, making them the most highly educated group in America. Muslim Americans are also the richest Muslim community in the world, with four in five earning more than $25,000 a year and one in three more than $75,000. They tend to be employed in professional fields, and most own stock, either personally or through 401(k) or pension plans. In terms of civic participation, 82% are registered to vote, half of them as Democrats. Interestingly, however, the survey found that 65% of Muslim Americans favor lowering the income tax.
In these respects, Muslim Americans differ from Muslim communities in Britain and Continental Europe, which tend to be poor and socially marginalized. Four other features set American Muslims apart.
First, unlike in Europe the overwhelming majority of Muslims arrived here legally, and many of those who didn't were deported after Sept. 11, 2001. Currently, according to Ali Al-Ahmed of the Washington-based Saudi Institute, there are probably no more than a few thousand Muslim illegal immigrants in the U.S.
Second, 21% of Muslim Americans intermarry, according to the 2001 Religious Identification Survey of the City University of New York--close to the national rate of 22% of Americans who marry outside their religion. And because 64% of Muslim Americans are foreign born, there is reason to expect that figure to grow among second and third generations.
Third, according to Ishan Bagby, a professor at the University of Kentucky who recently made a study of mosque attendance in Detroit, the average mosque-goer is 34 years old, married with children, has at least a bachelor's degree, and earns about $74,000 a year. If this is representative of Muslim Americans as a whole, it suggests that the religiously committed among them hardly fit the profile of the alienated, angry young Muslim men so common today in Europe.
Finally, Muslim Americans benefit from leaders who, despite some notable exceptions, are generally more responsible than Muslim leaders in Britain and Europe. Just compare the forthright condemnations of terrorism by the Los Angeles-based Muslim Public Affairs Council to the cunningly ambiguous utterances of France's Tariq Ramadan, to say nothing of the openly jihadist positions of some of Britain's most notorious imams.
So does the U.S. have a "Muslim problem"? If the data above are accurate, they strongly suggest we do not; on the contrary, America's Muslims tend to be role models both as Americans and as Muslims. But that does not mean there aren't any problems. One comes in the form of U.S. mosques funded by Saudi Arabia, which can serve as a conduit for the kingdom's extreme Wahhabist brand of Islam. Mr. Al-Ahmed calls these mosques "an incubator for suicide bombings and terrorism." Another is that, while most American Muslims have successfully integrated into American life, there remain culturally isolated and impoverished enclaves of Muslim immigrants. It was in just such an enclave in Jersey City, N.J., that the disciples of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman planned the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. Similarly, in Lodi, Calif., where two Pakistani men have been charged with attending terrorist training camps, some 80% of the Pakistani community does not speak adequate English.
Hanging over all this is the question of the long-term trajectory of the American Muslim population. In Britain, as in Germany and France, a striking feature of the Islamist movement is that it has taken root among second-generation Muslims, whose disenchantment with their Western lives is matched by the romanticist appeals of ethnic authenticity and religious purity. America's mostly foreign-born Muslims are perhaps less susceptible to this. But that's no guarantee their children won't be seduced. Then, too, neither a first-rate Western education nor economic affluence offers any inoculation against extremism: Just look at the careers of 9/11 ringleader Mohamed Atta, educated at the Technical University of Hamburg, or Daniel Pearl killer Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, who did undergraduate work at the London School of Economics.
It takes no more than a few men (or women) to carry out a terrorist atrocity, and there can be no guarantee the U.S. is immune from homegrown Islamist terror. But if it can be said that "it takes a village" to make a terrorist, the U.S. enjoys a measure of safety that our European allies do not. It is a blessing we will continue to enjoy as long as we remain an upwardly mobile, assimilating--and watchful--society.
Mr. Stephens is a member of The Wall Street Journal's editorial board. Mr. Rago, a recent graduate of Dartmouth, is a Journal editorial page intern
THE MELTING POT
Stars, Stripes, Crescent
A reassuring portrait of America's Muslims.
BY BRET STEPHENS AND JOSEPH RAGO
Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT
Ever since it became clear that three of the four jihadis who bombed London on July 7 were born and bred in England, the British have been taking a hard look at their Muslim neighbors: Do they share the same values? How do they fare economically? Whom do they cheer when England plays Pakistan at cricket? And how many more would-be bombers are among them?
As it happens, Her Majesty's government was well clued on these questions before the bombers struck: A 2004 Home Office study showed, for example, that British Muslims are three times likelier to be unemployed than the wider population, that their rates of civic participation are low, and that as many as 26% do not feel loyal to Britain. By contrast, the U.S. Census Bureau is forbidden by law from keeping figures on religious identification (although it collects voluminous information on race and ethnicity), so there are no authoritative data on the size and nature of America's Muslim population. Yet if the U.S. is ever attacked by American jihadis, we will no doubt ask the same questions about our Muslim community that Britons are now asking about theirs.
Here is what we know.
First, let's dispose of the common misconception that Arab-Americans and Muslim Americans are one and the same. In fact, most Arab-Americans aren't Muslim, and most Muslim Americans aren't Arab. According to the 2000 census, there are 1.2 million Americans of Arab descent, of whom only 24% (according to a survey by the Arab American Institute) are Muslim. As for the rest, they are mainly Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant. They are also highly successful, with an above-average median household income of $52,000 and an astonishing intermarriage rate of over 75%, suggesting they are well on their way toward blending into the great American melting pot.
Information on American Muslims is sketchier. Thanks to a 2004 Zogby International survey, we know that a plurality of Muslim Americans--about one-third--are of South Asian descent; 26% are Arab and another 20% are American blacks. But until 2001 we had no idea how many Muslims lived in America, and even now the figure remains a matter of intense controversy. All major Muslim advocacy groups put the number at above six million, which, as Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum observes, has the convenience of being higher than the American Jewish population. Yet all independent surveys put the real figure at no more than three million, while the most credible study to date, by Tom Smith of the University of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center, estimates total Muslim population at 1,886,000. "[It] is hard to accept that Muslims are greater than one percent of the population," he writes.
Whatever the real figure, what's reasonably clear is that Muslim Americans, like Arab-Americans, have fared well in the U.S. The Zogby survey found that 59% of American Muslims have at least an undergraduate education, making them the most highly educated group in America. Muslim Americans are also the richest Muslim community in the world, with four in five earning more than $25,000 a year and one in three more than $75,000. They tend to be employed in professional fields, and most own stock, either personally or through 401(k) or pension plans. In terms of civic participation, 82% are registered to vote, half of them as Democrats. Interestingly, however, the survey found that 65% of Muslim Americans favor lowering the income tax.
In these respects, Muslim Americans differ from Muslim communities in Britain and Continental Europe, which tend to be poor and socially marginalized. Four other features set American Muslims apart.
First, unlike in Europe the overwhelming majority of Muslims arrived here legally, and many of those who didn't were deported after Sept. 11, 2001. Currently, according to Ali Al-Ahmed of the Washington-based Saudi Institute, there are probably no more than a few thousand Muslim illegal immigrants in the U.S.
Second, 21% of Muslim Americans intermarry, according to the 2001 Religious Identification Survey of the City University of New York--close to the national rate of 22% of Americans who marry outside their religion. And because 64% of Muslim Americans are foreign born, there is reason to expect that figure to grow among second and third generations.
Third, according to Ishan Bagby, a professor at the University of Kentucky who recently made a study of mosque attendance in Detroit, the average mosque-goer is 34 years old, married with children, has at least a bachelor's degree, and earns about $74,000 a year. If this is representative of Muslim Americans as a whole, it suggests that the religiously committed among them hardly fit the profile of the alienated, angry young Muslim men so common today in Europe.
Finally, Muslim Americans benefit from leaders who, despite some notable exceptions, are generally more responsible than Muslim leaders in Britain and Europe. Just compare the forthright condemnations of terrorism by the Los Angeles-based Muslim Public Affairs Council to the cunningly ambiguous utterances of France's Tariq Ramadan, to say nothing of the openly jihadist positions of some of Britain's most notorious imams.
So does the U.S. have a "Muslim problem"? If the data above are accurate, they strongly suggest we do not; on the contrary, America's Muslims tend to be role models both as Americans and as Muslims. But that does not mean there aren't any problems. One comes in the form of U.S. mosques funded by Saudi Arabia, which can serve as a conduit for the kingdom's extreme Wahhabist brand of Islam. Mr. Al-Ahmed calls these mosques "an incubator for suicide bombings and terrorism." Another is that, while most American Muslims have successfully integrated into American life, there remain culturally isolated and impoverished enclaves of Muslim immigrants. It was in just such an enclave in Jersey City, N.J., that the disciples of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman planned the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. Similarly, in Lodi, Calif., where two Pakistani men have been charged with attending terrorist training camps, some 80% of the Pakistani community does not speak adequate English.
Hanging over all this is the question of the long-term trajectory of the American Muslim population. In Britain, as in Germany and France, a striking feature of the Islamist movement is that it has taken root among second-generation Muslims, whose disenchantment with their Western lives is matched by the romanticist appeals of ethnic authenticity and religious purity. America's mostly foreign-born Muslims are perhaps less susceptible to this. But that's no guarantee their children won't be seduced. Then, too, neither a first-rate Western education nor economic affluence offers any inoculation against extremism: Just look at the careers of 9/11 ringleader Mohamed Atta, educated at the Technical University of Hamburg, or Daniel Pearl killer Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, who did undergraduate work at the London School of Economics.
It takes no more than a few men (or women) to carry out a terrorist atrocity, and there can be no guarantee the U.S. is immune from homegrown Islamist terror. But if it can be said that "it takes a village" to make a terrorist, the U.S. enjoys a measure of safety that our European allies do not. It is a blessing we will continue to enjoy as long as we remain an upwardly mobile, assimilating--and watchful--society.
Mr. Stephens is a member of The Wall Street Journal's editorial board. Mr. Rago, a recent graduate of Dartmouth, is a Journal editorial page intern
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danas
- Posts: 18796
- Joined: 11/03/2005 19:40
- Location: 10th circle...
#333
ne moze se porediti status muslimana u USA i u evropi. ono sto su evropi muslimani (turci u njemackoj, ili pakistanci u engleskoj ili alzirci u francuskoj) to su ovdje meksikanci. kao sto se u evropi hvataju za glavu od muslimana, tako se u USA raspravlja o 'hispanic issues'. a ni jedno ni drugo nema puno veze sa religijom, vec sa brojem i socijalnim statusom doseljenika, te njihovim relativnim odbijanjem da se uklope u drustvo u koje su dosli da zive.
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water
- Posts: 1133
- Joined: 04/12/2004 02:46
#342
nego sta, uz dva svjedoka, ako mene koknu da joj niko nista ne progovori. Iako sam joj ostavio mogucnost da se preseli u jednu od oaza zenopostovanja (ima vazda brace na forumu da srede vizu za Saudiju ili taako nesto)gdje zenama brate sve zivo dozvole, gdje se mogu dostojanstveno pokriti, i znas sve one ostale priviligije (nemoraju u skolu ici, mogu birati cime ce ih marisati, itd...)
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Latina
- Posts: 5492
- Joined: 19/08/2006 01:47
- Location: I'd ratha' be hated 4 who I am, than loved 4 who I'm not.
#344
water wrote:(ne-moraju u skolu ici, mogu birati cime ce ih marisati, itd...)
Samo da nastavim...voze BMW-a minimalno...idu u gym 2x dnevno...nose Pradu...imaju love da pazare omanju drzavu...itd, itd...
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manijak1
- Posts: 47640
- Joined: 16/01/2003 00:00
- Location: https://www.klix.ba/
- Contact:
#345
To pitanje postavi i u drugom pravcu -
Kwaheri
- Posts: 3273
- Joined: 30/04/2004 12:33
#346
sretna?A wrote:Tuniski predsjednik, kao i njegovi najblizi saradnici, krecu u borbu protiv pokrivanja zena:
http://www.algerie-dz.com/article6783.html -
Izjave Rafik Belhaj Kacem (ministar unutarnjih poslova) i M'Henni (generalni sekretar partije RCD)
"Marama je politicki slogan, koristi ga grupa koja se skriva iza religije, da bi realizovala svoje politicke ciljeve"
"Dozvoljavanje marame bi bilo nazadovanje et ugrozavanje osnova drustva, njegovog napretka i neranjivosti Tunisa"
(Circulaire 108 brani nosenje marame, jos od pocetka 90-tih, u javnim ustanovama, obrazovnim i univerzitetskim ustanovama i svim javnim prostorima.)
http://www.afrik.com/article6484.html
http://www.lapresse.tn/index.php?opt=15 ... news=37256
Pa dokle?
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manijak1
- Posts: 47640
- Joined: 16/01/2003 00:00
- Location: https://www.klix.ba/
- Contact:
#347
Šta ćemo s Turskom ?Sto je ideal demokracije jos uvijek daleko i od Evrope i Tunisa - ne.
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manijak1
- Posts: 47640
- Joined: 16/01/2003 00:00
- Location: https://www.klix.ba/
- Contact:
#348
Uglavnom ..... koristi ideale demokratije o kojima ti pričaš međutim zašto je Evropa tako dvolična prema istoj .....to se ne pitaš , niti pričaš dokle ?
koristi ideale demokratije o kojima ti pričaš međutim zašto je Evropa tako dvolična prema istoj .....to se ne pitaš , niti pričaš dokle ? -
manijak1
- Posts: 47640
- Joined: 16/01/2003 00:00
- Location: https://www.klix.ba/
- Contact:
#349
Ti si počela s tom vodom ali si je navela na drugi mlin zato ono što predlažeš meni upotrijebi kod sebe
upotrijebi kod sebe -
horns&drums
- Posts: 15667
- Joined: 16/03/2004 16:24
- Location: Quaff a cup to the dead already and hooray for the next to die
#350
Suti ba Angela, ni jedne :D:D Provaljena si 
:D:D Provaljena si