zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme

zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme

eto vidišseln wrote:zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme
Ma vjerujem ti...zagortenej wrote:eto vidišseln wrote:zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme
polahko palamudjeru, previse su te glupostima nafilovali da bi ti sad nas prosvijetlio po pitanju Muhamemda i robovaTowelie wrote:Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.
muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujesSmrcak15 wrote:polahko palamudjeru, previse su te glupostima nafilovali da bi ti sad nas prosvijetlio po pitanju Muhamemda i robovaTowelie wrote:Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.![]()
So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"
I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free[/b]. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"
harač wrote:muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujesSmrcak15 wrote:polahko palamudjeru, previse su te glupostima nafilovali da bi ti sad nas prosvijetlio po pitanju Muhamemda i robovaTowelie wrote:Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.![]()
So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"
I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free[/b]. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"i bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)
tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
stani malo, osoba koja je zarobljena u ratu, neprijatelj ti bio, i sad odjednom prihvati islam dobro voljno, on ti je brat po vjeri htio ne htio to.muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"),
evo link koji vjerovatno neces ni pogledati ali mozda neko drugi hoce pa zato i postiram, koji objasnjava cijelu situaciju(sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak)
Smrcak15 wrote:harač wrote:
muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"),
stani malo, osoba koja je zarobljena u ratu, neprijatelj ti bio, i sad odjednom prihvati islam dobro voljno, on ti je brat po vjeri htio ne htio to.
Ali pazi, moraš biti tako umom udešen da tako i posmatraš i tumačiš stvari. Nastranu činjenice.harač wrote: muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujesi bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)
tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
ja razumijem tvoju poziciju - gore sam govorio o brainwashingu (ovo stavljam kao opisnu tvrdju, ne vrijednosnu). to objasnjava zasto si i ti, i smrle, i svi muslimani na forumu, slijepi na strukturalni problem tog zla i odnosa islama, allaha, i njegovog poslanika prema njemu. te price o dobrom robovlasniku su krajnje... neukusne, ali, opet, nisu izuzetak za muslimane. i dan danas postoje ljudi koji brane papu u mortata slucaju (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case). sve je to socioloski objasnjivo. ali mi ovdje ne govorimo o sociologiji, vec o "vjecnim" istinamaarzuhal wrote:Ali pazi, moraš biti tako umom udešen da tako i posmatraš i tumačiš stvari. Nastranu činjenice.harač wrote: muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujesi bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)
tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
Tema je Muhammed kao uzoru? Eto, riječ je o čovjeku koji - po svim svjedočenjima koja su doprla do nas o njemu - nikada u životu nije udario ženu, dijete ili roba i ruku je dizao samo u borbi, u bitkama. I čovjeku koji je govorio kako se treba odnositi prema robu: napraviti jelo svojom rukom, posaditi roba do sebe za istom sofrom, umočiti hljeb u hranu pa ga svojom rukom nahraniti. Čovjek kojem je poklonjen jedan dječak kao rob koji je proveo kod Muhameda toliko vremena da je, nakon što su ga pronašli radosni otac i amidža i htjeli da otkupe, pitao može li on ostati da živi u domu Muhammedovom?
Ja sam tako udešen kada govorim o Muhammedu kao uzoru, a ti drukčije. Zato mi drukčije vidimo i govorimo, inače ne bismo...
Zato ja, sa svoje strane, vazda donosim salavate i selame na njega, ali nikad dovoljno...A ti nešto drugo...
pa jeli ti covjce studiras sve okolnosti, sve tekstove sto govore o toj temi da bi ti mogao dati konacan sudharač wrote: nije problem u vjeri, problem u je u ropstvu. mozes imati roba iste vjere kao i ti. buduci da je ropstvo bezvremeno i nekvalificirano zlo, a da ni islam, ni muhamed isto nisu kategoricno zabranili, a da istovremeno tvrde za sebe da su moralni, jedan je od kljucnih dokaza da je sve ljudska konstrukcija
Znaš šta je meni zanimljivo kada je riječ o logici, analogiji, apstrahovanju, racionalnom promišljanju koje uvažava sve okolnosti (društvene, političke, povijesne, ekonomske, blabla) i ostalom? Što se na to sve neki ljudi pozivaju kada "racionalno" tumače ili negiraju jednu vjersku istinu u jednom slučaju, a sve to opet odbacuju kada se iznosi druga vjerska istina.harač wrote: ja razumijem tvoju poziciju - gore sam govorio o brainwashingu (ovo stavljam kao opisnu tvrdju, ne vrijednosnu). to objasnjava zasto si i ti, i smrle, i svi muslimani na forumu, slijepi na strukturalni problem tog zla i odnosa islama, allaha, i njegovog poslanika prema njemu. te price o dobrom robovlasniku su krajnje... neukusne, ali, opet, nisu izuzetak za muslimane. i dan danas postoje ljudi koji brane papu u mortata slucaju (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case). sve je to socioloski objasnjivo. ali mi ovdje ne govorimo o sociologiji, vec o "vjecnim" istinama
Hmm... da li je po tome muškarac koji obavlja te vrste poslova moderan ili zaostao?arzuhal wrote:Potpuno je neshvatljivo da bi čovjek iz 7. stoljeća, koji je umio baratati iglom i koncem toliko da bi mogao sam sebi zašiti pocjepanu odjeću, iako je bio okružen ženama koje su to mogle uraditi, koji je radio za sobom i učestvovao u kućnim poslovima, mogao biti uzor savremenom muškarcu u 21. stoljeću![]()
Ustvari, sasvim bajkovito djeluje da je takav čovjek mogao uopće i da postoji u 7. stoljeću, a kamoli da još bude i uzor muškarcima iz svog stoljeća!
koje neodbranjive hadise , da cujem???Idemedosumom wrote:Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.
Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.
A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
sa toliko malo znanja koje si kao turista pokupio u islamu dobro znas i kako se pozdravljamoTowelie wrote:Imaju podjednako i neodbranjivi ajeti, mada je istina da su hadisi veci horor.
Smrle, Allax ti se smilovao, nije ovo mektebski kviz pa da ti ja odgovaram na ova nidjevezna pitanja. Ako imas nesto da napišes na samu temu, odgovoricu. U suprotnom, samo cu da preskrolam tvoj post.Smrcak15 wrote:sa toliko malo znanja koje si kao turista pokupio u islamu dobro znas i kako se pozdravljamoTowelie wrote:Imaju podjednako i neodbranjivi ajeti, mada je istina da su hadisi veci horor.
nego bas da te to pitam kao vrlo ucenog u islamu![]()
Kako je po islamu pravilo da se odgovori ako ti neko kaze
Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah?
i kako je pravilo
kad ti neko kaze
Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah we barekatuhu?

posto si ti jaaaako , ono bas jako ucen u islamu, jaci od sviju nas ovdje, pa reko da nas neuku sitnu buraniju poducisTowelie wrote: Smrle, Allax ti se smilovao, nije ovo mektebski kviz pa da ti ja odgovaram na ova nidjevezna pitanja. Ako imas nesto da napišes na samu temu, odgovoricu. U suprotnom, samo cu da preskrolam tvoj post.
Hadis o seksu s devetogodišnjom djevojčicom, da je Poslanik proklinjao nedužne ljude, kamenovanje do smrti za zinaluk kada u Kur'anu drugačije piše pa sve do mušice u supi i konzumiranja devinog urina.Smrcak15 wrote:koje neodbranjive hadise , da cujem???Idemedosumom wrote:Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.
Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.
A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
Idemedosumom wrote:Hadis o seksu s devetogodišnjom djevojčicom, da je Poslanik proklinjao nedužne ljude, kamenovanje do smrti za zinaluk kada u Kur'anu drugačije piše pa sve do mušice u supi i konzumiranja devinog urina.Smrcak15 wrote:koje neodbranjive hadise , da cujem???Idemedosumom wrote:Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.
Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.
A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
Shvati da je većina ovih hadisa zapisana 200 i kusur godina nakon Poslanikove s.a.v.a. smrti. U međuvremenu su politika, zaborav, ljudska greška kao i manipulacija/zloba imale uticaj na hadise koji su se prepričavali, s koljena na koljeno.
Da li trebamo svi postati kur'anije? Ne, ali isto tako ne treba činiti očigledno zlo jer je Buharija nešto zapisao. Treba iz zbirki hadisa izbaciti ono što se kosi s Kur'anom, s drugim hadisima i zdravim razumom.
eh to je sad pitanje jeli stvarno bilo seksa dok je ona bila 9?Hadis o seksu s devetogodišnjom djevojčicom,
koje???da je Poslanik proklinjao nedužne ljude,
u Kuranu pise kako se treba u vremenu kao sto je bilo Mekkanski period, a kamenovanje je doslo u medinskom periodu.kamenovanje do smrti za zinaluk kada u Kur'anu drugačije
pokazao sam da se lijek moze uzvuci iz Muhe i devinog urina, to ti kazu nemuslimanske stranicepiše pa sve do mušice u supi i konzumiranja devinog urina
nije tacno, nego su se hadisi zapisaivali tokom zivota poslanikaShvati da je većina ovih hadisa zapisana 200 i kusur godina nakon Poslanikove s.a.v.a. smrti.
Hadith Compilation by the Companions of the Prophet
نشرت بواسطة: Waqar Akbar Cheema 7:53 AM في abdullah bin amr , abu huraira , Answering Hadith Rejecters , Authority of Hadith , companions , hadith compilation , hammam , Jabir , manuscripts , sahifa , samurah 4 تعليقات
Orientalists, Christians Missionaries and Hadith rejecting cultists often argue that Hadith compilation started in the 3rd century After Hijrah. This can be anything but certainly not the truth.
In the following lines I give some evidences for Hadith compilations by different companions of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, and their pupils.
Please note in this particular paper I am not going to discuss compilations made on the directives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him. Insha’Allah a separate paper will soon come out on it. For now let us consider the manuscripts and compilations made by companions themselves or their immediate students.
1- Abdullah bin ‘Amr’s Manuscript:
A well known companion of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, named ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As (d. 63 A.H.) had prepared a manuscript with narrations he directly listened from the Prophet. The manuscript is famous by the name, ‘Sahifa al-Sadiqah’
Mujahid said: I saw a manuscript with Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As so I asked about it. He said: “This is al-Sadiqa and in it is what I listened to from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, in it (means narrations therein) there is no step between myself and the Prophet.” (Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat al-Kubra Darul Sader ed. 2/373)
Abu Rashid al-Hurani said: I went to ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As and I said to him: “Narrate to me what you listened from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him.” He handed me over a manuscript and said: “This is what I wrote from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him …” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 6851. Shaykh Shu’aib Arnaut authenticated it)
This was later passed on to his great grandson ‘Amr bin Shu’aib (d. 118 A.H.)
Although the book is not extant today, perhaps still we can find out the narrations in it.
Hafiz Ibn Hajr has quoted that Yahya bin Ma’in said: “When ‘Amr bin Shu’aib narrates from his grandfather through his father it is from (that) book.” (Tahzib al-Tahzib 8/49)
With a computer program I searched for this chain in just 20 well known Hadith compilations and found nearly 850 results.
2- Manuscript of ‘Ali:
Sayyidina ‘Ali (d. 40 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had a manuscript of Hadith with him.
‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, said: “We have not written anything from the Prophet except the Qur’an and what is in this manuscript …” (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 3179)
Various narrations throw light on the contents of this manuscript. It had injunctions on, “Blood-money, Qasas, releasing of captives.” (cf. Bukhari, Hadith 111), “Sanctity of Madina” (cf. Bukhari, Hadith 3179) etc. And ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, used to keep it tied with the scabbard of his sword (cf. Sahih Muslim)
3- Compilations of narrations of Abu Huraira:
Al-Hassan bin ‘Amr said: I mentioned a Hadith to Abu Huraira which he did not acknowledge. I said, “Verily I have listened to it from you.” He said, “If you got it from me then it must be written with me.” He held my hand and took me to his home and we saw many books of Hadith of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, then we found the Hadith. So he said, “Indeed I told you if I narrated it to you then it is written with me.” (Jami’ Bayan al-‘ilm, Hadith 422)
One may say this Hadith contradicts the narration from Sahih Bukhari in which Abu Huraira himself said that he did not write the Ahadith. But this is not a problem for it appears Abu Huraira did not record the Ahadith in written form during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, and initial years of Khilafa but later he started writing them.
As per the narration recorded by Ibn Sa’d, Abdul ‘Aziz bin Marwan (d. 80 A.H.), the father of ‘Umar bin Abdul Aziz, wrote to Kathir bin Murrah al-Hadharmi:
“At Hims you have met seventy of the companions of Messenger of Allah who fought at Badr … Write to me what you have heard of the Ahadith of the Messenger of Allah from his companions, except those of Abu Huraira for they are with us.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 7/448 Entry: Kathir bin Murrah)
This proves Abdul Aziz bin Marwan had the Ahadith of Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him, in written form with him. And it further proves that efforts were being made to put the Ahadith in writing during the time of the companions for certainly many companions lived even after 80 A.H. when Abdul Aziz died. Isn’t it much before the third century After Hijrah?
4- Manuscript of Anas bin Malik:
Anas bin Malik (d. 92 A.H.) had his own manuscript of Hadith which he copied from the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him:
Ma’bad bin Hilal says: When many of us were with Anas bin Malik he came to us with a manuscript saying, “I heard this from the Prophet, may Allah bless him, and so I wrote it and presented it unto him.” (Mustadrak al-Hakim, Hadith 6452)
This shows companions started making private Hadith collections right during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him.
5- Books of Ibn ‘Abbas:
Another well known companion Ibn ‘Abbas (d. 68 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, had multiple treatises:
Musa bin ‘Uqbah said: “Karib bin Abi Muslim put in front of us a camel load or equal to a camel load of books of Ibn ‘Abbas.” (Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat al-Kubra 5/293)
6- Manuscript of ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud:
Another great companion, Abdullah bin Mas’ud (d. 32 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had his own manuscript.
M’an said: ‘Abdul Rahman bin ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud came to me with a book and swore, “Verily my father wrote it with his own hand.” (Jami’ Bayan al-‘Ilm wa Fadhlihi, Hadith 399)
7- Manuscript of Samurah bin Jundub:
Another famous companion, Samurah bin Jundub (d. 58 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had his collection of Hadith:
Ibn Hajr writes:
“Suleman bin Samurah bin Jundub transmitted a large manuscript from his father.” (Tahzib al-Tahzib 4/198)
8- Manuscript of Jabir bin Abdullah:
Jabir bin Abdullah (d. circa 70 A.H.) is also reported to have made a manuscript of Hadith with narrations on Hajj.
Consider the following narration from one of his top students.
“Mujahid narrated from the manuscript of Jabir.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 5/467)
9- Compilation of Bashir bin Nahik:
A student of Abu Huraira, Bashir bin Nahik also compiled the Ahadith he learnt from Abu Huraira:
Bashir bin Nahik said: I used to write whatever I learnt from Abu Huraira. Then as I intended to part from him I came to him with the book and read it to him and asked, “This is what I heard from you?” Abu Huraira said, “Yes.” (Sunan Darmi, Hadith 494. Shaykh Hussain Salim Asad graded the report as Sahih)
10- Mauscript of Hammam bin Munabbih:
Another student of Abu Huraira, Hammam bin Munabbih (d. 132 A.H.) made a collection of the Ahadith he learnt from Abu Huraira. All praise be to Allah, it is extant to this day. Dr. Hamiddulah, an erudite scholar of recent times, found two manuscripts of it in Berlin and Damascus and published it. It has 138 Ahadith. Imam Ahmad has quoted all these narrations in his Musnad. Sometimes back I made a little research on the first 20 narrations of this manuscript and compared them with Musnad Ahmad.
Smrcak15 wrote: Kako je po islamu pravilo da se odgovori ako ti neko kaze
Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah?
i kako je pravilo
kad ti neko kaze
Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah we barekatuhu?