Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

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seln
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#326 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by seln »

zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme :wink:

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#327 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by zagortenej »

seln wrote:
zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme :wink:

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#328 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

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Ovdje se zakuhalo pravo.
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#329 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by seln »

zagortenej wrote:
seln wrote:
zagortenej wrote: ma to ja malo ubacim da se upecaju ovi što traže meni grešku, pa onda odvraćaju od teme :wink:

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eto vidiš
Ma vjerujem ti...
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Towelie
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#330 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Towelie »

Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.
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#331 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

Towelie wrote:Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.
polahko palamudjeru, previse su te glupostima nafilovali da bi ti sad nas prosvijetlio po pitanju Muhamemda i robova :-)

Some teachings from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: "At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"


Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

Narrated Asma: "No doubt the Prophet ordered people to manumit slaves during the solar eclipse. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Eclipses, Volume 2, Book 18, Number 163)"

"'Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that 'Umar b. Khattab asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as he was at ji'rana (a town near Mecca) on his way back from Ta'if: Messenger of Allah, I had taken a vow during the days of Ignorance that I would observe I'tikaf for one day in the Sacred Mosque. So what is your opinion? He said: Go and observe I'tikaf for a day. And Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) gave him a slave girl out of the one-fifth (of the spoils of war meant for the Holy Prophet). And when Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) set the war prisoners free. 'Umar b. Khattab heard their voice as they were saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has set us free. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: What is this? They said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has set free the prisoners of war (which had fallen to the lot of people). Thereupon he (Hadrat 'Umar) said: Abdullah, go to that slave-girl and set her free. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4074)"

"Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"

Abu Mas'ud reported that he had been beating his slave and he had been saying: "I seek refuge with Allah, but he continued beating him, whereupon he said: I seek refuge with Allah's Messenger, and he spared him. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: By Allah, God has more dominance over you than you have over him (the slave). He said that he set him free. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters, but made no mention of (these words) of his: I seek refuge with Allah, I seek refuge with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4089)"


Quran:
Let us look at Noble Verse 2:177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing."
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harač
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#332 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by harač »

Smrcak15 wrote:
Towelie wrote:Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.
polahko palamudjeru, previse su te glupostima nafilovali da bi ti sad nas prosvijetlio po pitanju Muhamemda i robova :-)

So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"

I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free[/b]. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"
muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujes :lol: i bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo neoprostivo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)

tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
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#333 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

harač wrote:
Smrcak15 wrote:
Towelie wrote:Muhamed je uzor muslimanima za sva vremena, po islamskoj dogmi. Koliko god se hazreti Smrcak trudio ukazati da je nekad bilo normalno - upozoriti forumaša na flejm da ne bude kasnije "banovao me pristrasni moderator" - i imat robove, to Muhameda ne moze oprati posto se radi o čoveku koji svojim navodnim moralnim kvalitetima trandecnduje svoje vreme i predstavlja vanvremenski moralni uzor. Danas se normalan covek zgrazava nad tim praksama i smatra ih nemoralnim i zlim.
polahko palamudjeru, previse su te glupostima nafilovali da bi ti sad nas prosvijetlio po pitanju Muhamemda i robova :-)

So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"

I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free[/b]. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"
muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujes :lol: i bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)

tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"),
stani malo, osoba koja je zarobljena u ratu, neprijatelj ti bio, i sad odjednom prihvati islam dobro voljno, on ti je brat po vjeri htio ne htio to.
(sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak)
evo link koji vjerovatno neces ni pogledati ali mozda neko drugi hoce pa zato i postiram, koji objasnjava cijelu situaciju
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#334 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by harač »

Smrcak15 wrote:
harač wrote:
muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"),


stani malo, osoba koja je zarobljena u ratu, neprijatelj ti bio, i sad odjednom prihvati islam dobro voljno, on ti je brat po vjeri htio ne htio to.


nije problem u vjeri, problem u je u ropstvu. mozes imati roba iste vjere kao i ti. buduci da je ropstvo bezvremeno i nekvalificirano zlo, a da ni islam, ni muhamed isto nisu kategoricno zabranili, a da istovremeno tvrde za sebe da su moralni, jedan je od kljucnih dokaza da je sve ljudska konstrukcija
Last edited by harač on 25/01/2018 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
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#335 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by arzuhal »

harač wrote: muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujes :lol: i bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)

tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
Ali pazi, moraš biti tako umom udešen da tako i posmatraš i tumačiš stvari. Nastranu činjenice.

Tema je Muhammed kao uzor? Eto, riječ je o čovjeku koji - po svim svjedočenjima koja su doprla do nas o njemu - nikada u životu nije udario ženu, dijete ili roba i ruku je dizao samo u borbi, u bitkama. I čovjeku koji je govorio kako se treba odnositi prema robu: napraviti jelo svojom rukom, posaditi roba do sebe za istom sofrom, umočiti hljeb u hranu pa ga svojom rukom nahraniti. Čovjek kojem je poklonjen jedan dječak kao rob koji je proveo kod Muhameda toliko vremena da je, nakon što su ga pronašli radosni otac i amidža i htjeli da otkupe, pitao može li on ostati da živi u domu Muhammedovom?

Ja sam tako udešen kada govorim o Muhammedu kao uzoru, a ti drukčije. Zato mi drukčije vidimo i govorimo, inače ne bismo...

Zato ja, sa svoje strane, vazda donosim salavate i selame na njega, ali nikad dovoljno...A ti nešto drugo...
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harač
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#336 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by harač »

arzuhal wrote:
harač wrote: muhamedov egalitarijanizam zla: nije problem da ljude posjedus kao namjestaj ("da imas brata pod svojom vlascu"), niti da ga pretuces kada to zasluzi (sam bog kaze da se i zena moze nalemati, kad to zasluzi, pa sto da je rob izuzetak), ali pazi da ne pretjerujes :lol: i bilo bi lijepo i da ih pustis na slobodu, ali ne postoji naredba da to svi urade odmah i sad (jer je ropstvo zlo, a bog je vjecan, a ja njegov poslanik etc.)

tesko da su potrebni drugi argumenti protiv islama
Ali pazi, moraš biti tako umom udešen da tako i posmatraš i tumačiš stvari. Nastranu činjenice.

Tema je Muhammed kao uzoru? Eto, riječ je o čovjeku koji - po svim svjedočenjima koja su doprla do nas o njemu - nikada u životu nije udario ženu, dijete ili roba i ruku je dizao samo u borbi, u bitkama. I čovjeku koji je govorio kako se treba odnositi prema robu: napraviti jelo svojom rukom, posaditi roba do sebe za istom sofrom, umočiti hljeb u hranu pa ga svojom rukom nahraniti. Čovjek kojem je poklonjen jedan dječak kao rob koji je proveo kod Muhameda toliko vremena da je, nakon što su ga pronašli radosni otac i amidža i htjeli da otkupe, pitao može li on ostati da živi u domu Muhammedovom?

Ja sam tako udešen kada govorim o Muhammedu kao uzoru, a ti drukčije. Zato mi drukčije vidimo i govorimo, inače ne bismo...

Zato ja, sa svoje strane, vazda donosim salavate i selame na njega, ali nikad dovoljno...A ti nešto drugo...
ja razumijem tvoju poziciju - gore sam govorio o brainwashingu (ovo stavljam kao opisnu tvrdju, ne vrijednosnu). to objasnjava zasto si i ti, i smrle, i svi muslimani na forumu, slijepi na strukturalni problem tog zla i odnosa islama, allaha, i njegovog poslanika prema njemu. te price o dobrom robovlasniku su krajnje... neukusne, ali, opet, nisu izuzetak za muslimane. i dan danas postoje ljudi koji brane papu u mortata slucaju (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case). sve je to socioloski objasnjivo. ali mi ovdje ne govorimo o sociologiji, vec o "vjecnim" istinama
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Smrcak15
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#337 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

harač wrote: nije problem u vjeri, problem u je u ropstvu. mozes imati roba iste vjere kao i ti. buduci da je ropstvo bezvremeno i nekvalificirano zlo, a da ni islam, ni muhamed isto nisu kategoricno zabranili, a da istovremeno tvrde za sebe da su moralni, jedan je od kljucnih dokaza da je sve ljudska konstrukcija
pa jeli ti covjce studiras sve okolnosti, sve tekstove sto govore o toj temi da bi ti mogao dati konacan sud

Siguran sam da ti sporedis klasicno afro-americko robovlasnistvo sa Islamskim sluzenjem da ne kazem robovlasnistvo, jer nemozes vise koristiti rijec Rob jer ima lose konotacije zbog afro-americkog iskustva robovlasnistva...pa je daleko primjerenije rezi Sluga i sluskinja a ne rob i ropkinja.

Sporedi slugu i sluskinju u islamu i afro-americke robove pa ces da vidis sinko razlike, nebo i zemlja, totalno dva razlicita svijeta.

i ne samo to nego su sluge i sluskinje uzimani tokom rata, da bi se poslije uveli u drustvo ponovo i bili slobodni gradjani tog drustva, eh to je islam.
ja ovo tvrdim na osnovu islamskih tekstova i hadisih predaja a ne na osnovu afro-americkih naocala koji su bili bas pravi robovi u svakom smislu.

ti covjece neznas sporediti stvari..ne realni ste, ne racionalni, na stavljate stvari u kontekst kako bi se poptunija slika dobila.
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#338 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by arzuhal »

harač wrote: ja razumijem tvoju poziciju - gore sam govorio o brainwashingu (ovo stavljam kao opisnu tvrdju, ne vrijednosnu). to objasnjava zasto si i ti, i smrle, i svi muslimani na forumu, slijepi na strukturalni problem tog zla i odnosa islama, allaha, i njegovog poslanika prema njemu. te price o dobrom robovlasniku su krajnje... neukusne, ali, opet, nisu izuzetak za muslimane. i dan danas postoje ljudi koji brane papu u mortata slucaju (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case). sve je to socioloski objasnjivo. ali mi ovdje ne govorimo o sociologiji, vec o "vjecnim" istinama
Znaš šta je meni zanimljivo kada je riječ o logici, analogiji, apstrahovanju, racionalnom promišljanju koje uvažava sve okolnosti (društvene, političke, povijesne, ekonomske, blabla) i ostalom? Što se na to sve neki ljudi pozivaju kada "racionalno" tumače ili negiraju jednu vjersku istinu u jednom slučaju, a sve to opet odbacuju kada se iznosi druga vjerska istina.
Ja sam jednom pravio usputno poređenje na to pitanje o ajetu kojim se jasno dokida ropstvo: alkohol je daleko manje zlo ili stvar daleko manje vrijednosti (kako god tu vrijednosti određivali) u društvu (i svim civilizacijama i društvima svijeta, svim carstvima i kraljevstvima) u odnosu na mjesto ropstva i robovlasništva i njegov uticaj kroz historiju, pa ipak Allah nije odjednom zabranio i dokinuo alkohol nego postupno, pripremajući ljude na potpunu zabranu, privikavajući ih na situacije koje će voditi potpunom odbacivanju alkohola.

To isto se dešavalo i sa ropstvom, od Kur'ana do sunneta/prakse onog koji jeste vječni uzor, samo što nije bilo onog zadnjeg ajeta koji jasno i nedvosmisleno dokida nešto što je hiljadama godina gradilo razne civilizacije.

Tako da i ja razumijem tvoju poziciju...
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Baran
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#339 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Baran »

arzuhal wrote:Potpuno je neshvatljivo da bi čovjek iz 7. stoljeća, koji je umio baratati iglom i koncem toliko da bi mogao sam sebi zašiti pocjepanu odjeću, iako je bio okružen ženama koje su to mogle uraditi, koji je radio za sobom i učestvovao u kućnim poslovima, mogao biti uzor savremenom muškarcu u 21. stoljeću :?
Ustvari, sasvim bajkovito djeluje da je takav čovjek mogao uopće i da postoji u 7. stoljeću, a kamoli da još bude i uzor muškarcima iz svog stoljeća!
Hmm... da li je po tome muškarac koji obavlja te vrste poslova moderan ili zaostao?

Sooo much to think about :roll:
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Idemedosumom
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#340 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Idemedosumom »

Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.

Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.

A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
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Smrcak15
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#341 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

Idemedosumom wrote:Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.

Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.

A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
koje neodbranjive hadise , da cujem???
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Baran
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#342 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Baran »

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Towelie
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#343 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Towelie »

Imaju podjednako i neodbranjivi ajeti, mada je istina da su hadisi veci horor. :mrgreen:
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Smrcak15
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#344 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

Towelie wrote:Imaju podjednako i neodbranjivi ajeti, mada je istina da su hadisi veci horor. :mrgreen:
sa toliko malo znanja koje si kao turista pokupio u islamu dobro znas i kako se pozdravljamo

nego bas da te to pitam kao vrlo ucenog u islamu :)

Kako je po islamu pravilo da se odgovori ako ti neko kaze

Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah?

i kako je pravilo

kad ti neko kaze

Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah we barekatuhu?
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Towelie
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#345 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Towelie »

Smrcak15 wrote:
Towelie wrote:Imaju podjednako i neodbranjivi ajeti, mada je istina da su hadisi veci horor. :mrgreen:
sa toliko malo znanja koje si kao turista pokupio u islamu dobro znas i kako se pozdravljamo

nego bas da te to pitam kao vrlo ucenog u islamu :)

Kako je po islamu pravilo da se odgovori ako ti neko kaze

Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah?

i kako je pravilo

kad ti neko kaze

Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah we barekatuhu?
Smrle, Allax ti se smilovao, nije ovo mektebski kviz pa da ti ja odgovaram na ova nidjevezna pitanja. Ako imas nesto da napišes na samu temu, odgovoricu. U suprotnom, samo cu da preskrolam tvoj post.
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asurbanipal
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#346 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by asurbanipal »

Odlično štivo koje govori o rasizmu i robovlasništvu na Bliskom istoku, sa akcentom na istoriju trgovine trans-saharskim Afrikancima u Egiptu 19. vijeka, kao i Sudanu i ostatku Sredozemlja pod Otomanskom imperijom.


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Smrcak15
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#347 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

Towelie wrote: Smrle, Allax ti se smilovao, nije ovo mektebski kviz pa da ti ja odgovaram na ova nidjevezna pitanja. Ako imas nesto da napišes na samu temu, odgovoricu. U suprotnom, samo cu da preskrolam tvoj post.
posto si ti jaaaako , ono bas jako ucen u islamu, jaci od sviju nas ovdje, pa reko da nas neuku sitnu buraniju poducis :)

to su jednostavna pitanja, ako nisi u stanju da odgovoris na Ovako jednostavna pitanja, a dosao si da se bodes samnom na islamskom bojistu :evil:

, cak sta vise imas i hrabrosti doci da palamudis, a ima ljudi uceni na ovom forumu daleko vise od Tebe, evo recimo ja svaku tvoju glupost mogu da rastavim na proste faktore uzduz i poprijeko.....a sta bi tek bilo da neki ucenjak ima ovdje koji poznaje islam daleko vise nego ja...sta bi tek onda sa tobom bilo???
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Idemedosumom
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#348 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Idemedosumom »

Smrcak15 wrote:
Idemedosumom wrote:Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.

Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.

A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
koje neodbranjive hadise , da cujem???
Hadis o seksu s devetogodišnjom djevojčicom, da je Poslanik proklinjao nedužne ljude, kamenovanje do smrti za zinaluk kada u Kur'anu drugačije piše pa sve do mušice u supi i konzumiranja devinog urina.

Shvati da je većina ovih hadisa zapisana 200 i kusur godina nakon Poslanikove s.a.v.a. smrti. U međuvremenu su politika, zaborav, ljudska greška kao i manipulacija/zloba imale uticaj na hadise koji su se prepričavali, s koljena na koljeno.

Da li trebamo svi postati kur'anije? Ne, ali isto tako ne treba činiti očigledno zlo jer je Buharija nešto zapisao. Treba iz zbirki hadisa izbaciti ono što se kosi s Kur'anom, s drugim hadisima i zdravim razumom.
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Smrcak15
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#349 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by Smrcak15 »

Idemedosumom wrote:
Smrcak15 wrote:
Idemedosumom wrote:Salik dao objašnjenje još na 3. stranici.

Neko ko je musliman mora shvatiti jasnu razliku između Kur'ana i hadisa.

A ovi što na silu pokušavaju opravdati "neodbranjive" hadise samo čine uslugu ovoj drugoj strani.
koje neodbranjive hadise , da cujem???
Hadis o seksu s devetogodišnjom djevojčicom, da je Poslanik proklinjao nedužne ljude, kamenovanje do smrti za zinaluk kada u Kur'anu drugačije piše pa sve do mušice u supi i konzumiranja devinog urina.

Shvati da je većina ovih hadisa zapisana 200 i kusur godina nakon Poslanikove s.a.v.a. smrti. U međuvremenu su politika, zaborav, ljudska greška kao i manipulacija/zloba imale uticaj na hadise koji su se prepričavali, s koljena na koljeno.

Da li trebamo svi postati kur'anije? Ne, ali isto tako ne treba činiti očigledno zlo jer je Buharija nešto zapisao. Treba iz zbirki hadisa izbaciti ono što se kosi s Kur'anom, s drugim hadisima i zdravim razumom.
Hadis o seksu s devetogodišnjom djevojčicom,
eh to je sad pitanje jeli stvarno bilo seksa dok je ona bila 9?

ako jeste zasto nije bila trudna? jer inace poznato da je psolanik imao djecu sa ostalim nekim zenama.
da je Poslanik proklinjao nedužne ljude,
koje???
kamenovanje do smrti za zinaluk kada u Kur'anu drugačije
u Kuranu pise kako se treba u vremenu kao sto je bilo Mekkanski period, a kamenovanje je doslo u medinskom periodu.

I ajet o kamenovanju je spusten, ali nije namijenjen da bude dio pisanog Kurana, ali njegovo pravilo i dalje vazi.

piše pa sve do mušice u supi i konzumiranja devinog urina
pokazao sam da se lijek moze uzvuci iz Muhe i devinog urina, to ti kazu nemuslimanske stranice
Shvati da je većina ovih hadisa zapisana 200 i kusur godina nakon Poslanikove s.a.v.a. smrti.
nije tacno, nego su se hadisi zapisaivali tokom zivota poslanika

ashabi su imali svoje odvojene manuskripte samo sa hadisima odvojeno od Kuranskih ajeta

to sto je malo kasnije BUharija i Muslim stigli jeste da su oni samo sabrali najvjerodostojnije predaje koje su bile pamcenje i zapisane , oni su analizirali i klasifikovali.


Hadith Compilation by the Companions of the Prophet

نشرت بواسطة: Waqar Akbar Cheema 7:53 AM في abdullah bin amr , abu huraira , Answering Hadith Rejecters , Authority of Hadith , companions , hadith compilation , hammam , Jabir , manuscripts , sahifa , samurah 4 تعليقات


Orientalists, Christians Missionaries and Hadith rejecting cultists often argue that Hadith compilation started in the 3rd century After Hijrah. This can be anything but certainly not the truth.

In the following lines I give some evidences for Hadith compilations by different companions of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, and their pupils.

Please note in this particular paper I am not going to discuss compilations made on the directives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him. Insha’Allah a separate paper will soon come out on it. For now let us consider the manuscripts and compilations made by companions themselves or their immediate students.

1- Abdullah bin ‘Amr’s Manuscript:

A well known companion of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, named ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As (d. 63 A.H.) had prepared a manuscript with narrations he directly listened from the Prophet. The manuscript is famous by the name, ‘Sahifa al-Sadiqah’

Mujahid said: I saw a manuscript with Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As so I asked about it. He said: “This is al-Sadiqa and in it is what I listened to from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, in it (means narrations therein) there is no step between myself and the Prophet.” (Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat al-Kubra Darul Sader ed. 2/373)

Abu Rashid al-Hurani said: I went to ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As and I said to him: “Narrate to me what you listened from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him.” He handed me over a manuscript and said: “This is what I wrote from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him …” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 6851. Shaykh Shu’aib Arnaut authenticated it)

This was later passed on to his great grandson ‘Amr bin Shu’aib (d. 118 A.H.)

Although the book is not extant today, perhaps still we can find out the narrations in it.

Hafiz Ibn Hajr has quoted that Yahya bin Ma’in said: “When ‘Amr bin Shu’aib narrates from his grandfather through his father it is from (that) book.” (Tahzib al-Tahzib 8/49)

With a computer program I searched for this chain in just 20 well known Hadith compilations and found nearly 850 results.

2- Manuscript of ‘Ali:

Sayyidina ‘Ali (d. 40 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had a manuscript of Hadith with him.

‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, said: “We have not written anything from the Prophet except the Qur’an and what is in this manuscript …” (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 3179)

Various narrations throw light on the contents of this manuscript. It had injunctions on, “Blood-money, Qasas, releasing of captives.” (cf. Bukhari, Hadith 111), “Sanctity of Madina” (cf. Bukhari, Hadith 3179) etc. And ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, used to keep it tied with the scabbard of his sword (cf. Sahih Muslim)

3- Compilations of narrations of Abu Huraira:

Al-Hassan bin ‘Amr said: I mentioned a Hadith to Abu Huraira which he did not acknowledge. I said, “Verily I have listened to it from you.” He said, “If you got it from me then it must be written with me.” He held my hand and took me to his home and we saw many books of Hadith of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, then we found the Hadith. So he said, “Indeed I told you if I narrated it to you then it is written with me.” (Jami’ Bayan al-‘ilm, Hadith 422)

One may say this Hadith contradicts the narration from Sahih Bukhari in which Abu Huraira himself said that he did not write the Ahadith. But this is not a problem for it appears Abu Huraira did not record the Ahadith in written form during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, and initial years of Khilafa but later he started writing them.

As per the narration recorded by Ibn Sa’d, Abdul ‘Aziz bin Marwan (d. 80 A.H.), the father of ‘Umar bin Abdul Aziz, wrote to Kathir bin Murrah al-Hadharmi:

“At Hims you have met seventy of the companions of Messenger of Allah who fought at Badr … Write to me what you have heard of the Ahadith of the Messenger of Allah from his companions, except those of Abu Huraira for they are with us.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 7/448 Entry: Kathir bin Murrah)

This proves Abdul Aziz bin Marwan had the Ahadith of Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him, in written form with him. And it further proves that efforts were being made to put the Ahadith in writing during the time of the companions for certainly many companions lived even after 80 A.H. when Abdul Aziz died. Isn’t it much before the third century After Hijrah?

4- Manuscript of Anas bin Malik:

Anas bin Malik (d. 92 A.H.) had his own manuscript of Hadith which he copied from the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him:

Ma’bad bin Hilal says: When many of us were with Anas bin Malik he came to us with a manuscript saying, “I heard this from the Prophet, may Allah bless him, and so I wrote it and presented it unto him.” (Mustadrak al-Hakim, Hadith 6452)

This shows companions started making private Hadith collections right during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him.

5- Books of Ibn ‘Abbas:

Another well known companion Ibn ‘Abbas (d. 68 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, had multiple treatises:

Musa bin ‘Uqbah said: “Karib bin Abi Muslim put in front of us a camel load or equal to a camel load of books of Ibn ‘Abbas.” (Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat al-Kubra 5/293)

6- Manuscript of ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud:

Another great companion, Abdullah bin Mas’ud (d. 32 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had his own manuscript.

M’an said: ‘Abdul Rahman bin ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud came to me with a book and swore, “Verily my father wrote it with his own hand.” (Jami’ Bayan al-‘Ilm wa Fadhlihi, Hadith 399)

7- Manuscript of Samurah bin Jundub:

Another famous companion, Samurah bin Jundub (d. 58 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had his collection of Hadith:

Ibn Hajr writes:

“Suleman bin Samurah bin Jundub transmitted a large manuscript from his father.” (Tahzib al-Tahzib 4/198)

8- Manuscript of Jabir bin Abdullah:

Jabir bin Abdullah (d. circa 70 A.H.) is also reported to have made a manuscript of Hadith with narrations on Hajj.

Consider the following narration from one of his top students.

“Mujahid narrated from the manuscript of Jabir.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 5/467)

9- Compilation of Bashir bin Nahik:

A student of Abu Huraira, Bashir bin Nahik also compiled the Ahadith he learnt from Abu Huraira:

Bashir bin Nahik said: I used to write whatever I learnt from Abu Huraira. Then as I intended to part from him I came to him with the book and read it to him and asked, “This is what I heard from you?” Abu Huraira said, “Yes.” (Sunan Darmi, Hadith 494. Shaykh Hussain Salim Asad graded the report as Sahih)

10- Mauscript of Hammam bin Munabbih:

Another student of Abu Huraira, Hammam bin Munabbih (d. 132 A.H.) made a collection of the Ahadith he learnt from Abu Huraira. All praise be to Allah, it is extant to this day. Dr. Hamiddulah, an erudite scholar of recent times, found two manuscripts of it in Berlin and Damascus and published it. It has 138 Ahadith. Imam Ahmad has quoted all these narrations in his Musnad. Sometimes back I made a little research on the first 20 narrations of this manuscript and compared them with Musnad Ahmad.
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asurbanipal
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#350 Re: Muhamed kao moralni uzor u 21. veku

Post by asurbanipal »

Smrcak15 wrote: Kako je po islamu pravilo da se odgovori ako ti neko kaze

Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah?

i kako je pravilo

kad ti neko kaze

Selam Alejkum we Rahmetullah we barekatuhu?

Joj ovoga sa ovim arapskim pozdravima.

Fino se kaže na bosanskom jeziku, ko čo'ek: Mir s tobom ili Mir s vama, a može i Da si zdravo, Dobar dan.
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