Terorizam u Parizu!

Rasprave na razne teme... Ako ne znate gdje poslati poruku, pošaljite je ovdje.

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drndalo
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#2926 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by drndalo »

Red Wolf wrote:
insomnia78 wrote:
sherbett wrote:mene zanima nešto, molim one koji su vani, osobito ako ima netko iz Francuske...tko je specijalcima i kako dojavio da su taoci na "sigurnom", odvojeni od otimača, te da mogu slobono uletit unutra?
Navodno je u fabrici jedan radnik ostao sakriven i cijelo vrijeme bio u kontaktu sa policijom
To sam negdje danas vidio na vjestima sad ne mogu da nadjem
Nisu ni bili odvojeni, policija je iskljucila struju i upala sa sok bombama
Dajte ba ljudi,pa fino javili da su ova dvojica brace istrcali vani gdje su ubijeni a ti sad tvrdis da su murijasi uletili unutra,jasta je cuco radnik preko 15 sati,ni da mrdne,ni jest ni srat ni pisat samo cucat,e pa ako je i od spilberga puno je
Mens' cini da si ti pomijesao "2 brata" iz industrijske zone, i ovaj snimak upada, ocito u supermarket, dakle druga situacija. Drugo mjesto...

Sto se sranja i pisanja tice, ja znam ratni slucaj naseg bataljonca iz 102. mot. brigade na Stupskom brdu (blizu danasnjeg Penny-a), koji je u hemijskoj cistionici ostao ne stigavsi pobjeci kad su "oni anamo" izvrsili napad, i zauzeli je. Covjek je bio barem 2 dana, mozda i koji sat duze skriven u polumraku kucerine pune masina za pranje/peglanje... Kada su nasi nakon 2 dana ozbiljnih priprema uspjesno upali i povratili nazad objekat, nasli su ga zivog, iako je vec bio "prezaljen" kao (barem) zarobljenik... Trebalo mu je dosta srece i znanja kako da se javi nasima iz masine, a da ga ne roknu od iznenadjenja mislivsi da je njihov...
Last edited by drndalo on 09/01/2015 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
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O'zone
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#2927 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by O'zone »

Interesantan članak koji govori o pravoj slobodi govora, prilično dugačak, ima karikatura pa se bar to može pogledati

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... -cartoons/


Citiram drugi dio koji govori baš o slobodi govora i koliko ona postoji i kakave su njene posljedice u "zapadnoj demokratiji" jer za "istočnu" već znamo kakve su.
When we originally discussed publishing this article to make these points, our intention was to commission two or three cartoonists to create cartoons that mock Judaism and malign sacred figures to Jews the way Charlie Hebdo did to Muslims. But that idea was thwarted by the fact that no mainstream western cartoonist would dare put their name on an anti-Jewish cartoon, even if done for satire purposes, because doing so would instantly and permanently destroy their career, at least. Anti-Islam and anti-Muslim commentary (and cartoons) are a dime a dozen in western media outlets; the taboo that is at least as strong, if not more so, are anti-Jewish images and words. Why aren’t Douthat, Chait, Yglesias and their like-minded free speech crusaders calling for publication of anti-Semitic material in solidarity, or as a means of standing up to this repression? Yes, it’s true that outlets like The New York Times will very rarely publish such depictions, but only to document hateful bigotry and condemn it – not to publish it in “solidarity” or because it deserves a serious and respectful airing.

With all due respect to the great cartoonist Ann Telnaes, it is simply not the case that Charlie Hebdo “were equal opportunity offenders.” Like Bill Maher, Sam Harris and other anti-Islam obsessives, mocking Judaism, Jews and/or Israel is something they will rarely (if ever) do. If forced, they can point to rare and isolated cases where they uttered some criticism of Judaism or Jews, but the vast bulk of their attacks are reserved for Islam and Muslims, not Judaism and Jews. Parody, free speech and secular atheism are the pretexts; anti-Muslim messaging is the primary goal and the outcome. And this messaging – this special affection for offensive anti-Islam speech – just so happens to coincide with, to feed, the militaristic foreign policy agenda of their governments and culture.

To see how true that is, consider the fact that Charlie Hebdo – the “equal opportunity” offenders and defenders of all types of offensive speech - fired one of their writers in 2009 for a writing a sentence some said was anti-Semitic (the writer was then charged with a hate crime offense, and won a judgment against the magazine for unfair termination). Does that sound like “equal opportunity” offending?

Nor is it the case that threatening violence in response to offensive ideas is the exclusive province of extremists claiming to act in the name of Islam. Terrence McNally’s 1998 play “Corpus Christi,” depicting Jesus as gay, was repeatedly cancelled by theaters due to bomb threats. Larry Flynt was paralyzed by an evangelical white supremacist who objected to Hustler‘s pornographic depiction of inter-racial couples. The Dixie Chicks were deluged with death threats and needed massive security after they publicly criticized George Bush for the Iraq War, which finally forced them to apologize out of fear. Violence spurred by Jewish and Christian fanaticism is legion, from abortion doctors being murdered to gay bars being bombed to a 45-year-old brutal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza due in part to the religious belief (common in both the U.S. and Israel) that God decreed they shall own all the land. And that’s all independent of the systematic state violence in the west sustained, at least in part, by religious sectarianism.

The New York Times‘ David Brooks today claims that anti-Christian bias is so widespread in America – which has never elected a non-Christian president – that “the University of Illinois fired a professor who taught the Roman Catholic view on homosexuality.” He forgot to mention that the very same university just terminated its tenure contract with Professor Steven Salaita over tweets he posted during the Israeli attack on Gaza that the university judged to be excessively vituperative of Jewish leaders, and that the journalist Chris Hedges was just disinvited to speak at the University of Pennsylvania for the Thought Crime of drawing similarities between Israel and ISIS.

That is a real taboo – a repressed idea – as powerful and absolute as any in the United States, so much so that Brooks won’t even acknowledge its existence. It’s certainly more of a taboo in the U.S. than criticizing Muslims and Islams, which is so frequently heard in mainstream circles – including the U.S. Congress – that one barely notices it any more.

This underscores the key point: there are all sorts of ways ideas and viewpoints are suppressed in the west. When those demanding publication of these anti-Islam cartoons start demanding the affirmative publication of those ideas as well, I’ll believe the sincerity of their very selective application of free speech principles. One can defend free speech without having to publish, let alone embrace, the offensive ideas being targeted. But if that’s not the case, let’s have equal application of this new principle.

Additional research was provided by Andrew Fishman

Email the author: glenn.greenwald@theintercep
Last edited by O'zone on 09/01/2015 21:28, edited 1 time in total.
nigor
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#2928 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by nigor »

krater wrote:Image
Image
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#2929 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Ima Bosne_Bice Bosne »

It_is_a_Leclerc wrote:Jao, evo ga Alžir !

Kakve madafaking veze Alžir ima s ovim ?!

To vam je kao da mi organizujemo održavanje počasti žrtvama u BiH,a neko kaže - "Ea, a Jasenovac ?! "

Ima ih koji i to kazu.
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#2930 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Tvrtko II Kotromanić »

Gojeni H wrote:Cmoljo, molba ... ovu temu ostavi na plafon stranice kao i par drugih koje su stalno u vrhu i na raspolaganaju za sve da ih pregledaju. Tema je svjedok budjenja najnizih poriva kod ljudi prenesenih na papir, pardon ... monitor.

Nikada prije, nekih 90 i kusur stranica na ovom forumu mi nisu pokazali s kakvim ljudima zivim.
Sada, kada izgleda da je potjera za ubicama okoncana, osjecam potrebu da napisem koju, hladne glave.

1. Polupismeni pecaci rakije iz vlastitog kazana osjecaju obavezu ali i pravo da vrijedjaju vjerskog poglavara bosanskih muslimana, zato sto je covjek ukazao na zlo koje je odavno izmaklo kontroli ... i na kraju, poslao jednu ljudsku poruku saosjecanja ... kakav grijeh i izdaja!
Isti se vatreno bave karikaturama nacinjenim u sekularnoj zemlji, sa krscanskom vecinom.
Jadni li smo i cemerni ako nas iman moze poljuljati neko piskaralo iz Francuske.

2. Nikada vise mrzitelja islama nije isplivalo na ovom forumu u ovako kratkom vremenskom roku. Na beskicmenjake i larve koje se stide svog imena sam navikao, ali na Bosnjake i Bosance koji istinski i sa zarom mrze islam i muslimane, nisam bio spreman.

3. I na kraju, sto ignorisete cijenjenog forumasa @baltazar_khana? Frajer pita da li ko sta guzi, a niko ni da ga marsne.

@Baltazar :thumbup:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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insomnia78
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#2931 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by insomnia78 »

It_is_a_Leclerc wrote:
insomnia78 wrote:Skoro svi imami u Francuskoj su pozvali vjernike na smirivanje tenzija i izlazak zajedno sa Francuzima na nedeljno protestno okupljanje
Koliko je to sigurnosno realno ?!
Mislis da se Arapi pridruze francuzima?
Pa bice ih sigurno, bilo ih je vec prvu noc u parizu
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uglavnomja
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#2932 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by uglavnomja »

par detalja iz novina

-ubijeni iz kosher prodavnice je razgovarao sa nekim (novinarem valjda) i rekao da su radili zajedno, da su braca isla u redakciju, a on je trebao sprijecavati policiju (tad je ubio policajku)

-policija mu je prisluskivala telefon i kad je poceo da se moli skontali su da ce poceti ubijati taoce pa su upali unutra
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#2933 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Red Wolf »

Red Wolf wrote:
insomnia78 wrote:
sherbett wrote:mene zanima nešto, molim one koji su vani, osobito ako ima netko iz Francuske...tko je specijalcima i kako dojavio da su taoci na "sigurnom", odvojeni od otimača, te da mogu slobono uletit unutra?
Navodno je u fabrici jedan radnik ostao sakriven i cijelo vrijeme bio u kontaktu sa policijom
To sam negdje danas vidio na vjestima sad ne mogu da nadjem
Nisu ni bili odvojeni, policija je iskljucila struju i upala sa sok bombama
Dajte ba ljudi,pa fino javili da su ova dvojica brace istrcali vani gdje su ubijeni a ti sad tvrdis da su murijasi uletili unutra,jasta je cuco radnik preko 15 sati,ni da mrdne,ni jest ni srat ni pisat samo cucat,e pa ako je i od spilberga puno je
Mens' cini da si ti pomijesao "2 brata" iz industrijske zone, i ovaj snimak upada, ocito u supermarket, dakle druga situacija. Drugo mjesto...[/quote]


Men s cini da s ti fulo,braca su bila u fabrici-stampariji a ovaj drugi u supermarketu o kom ima sve i snimak o kom govoris a o ovom drugom nista sem nagadjanja i spekulacije
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insomnia78
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#2934 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by insomnia78 »

Bodkin wrote:vidim postavljaju ljudi svakakva sranja po fejsu pa da pitam ovdje, ima li jos talackih kriza? spominju jos jednu u parizu i jednu u monpeljeu.
U Monpeljeu se radilo o "obicnoj pljacki" zlatare
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Drvosjeca iz Dejcica
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#2935 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Drvosjeca iz Dejcica »

groove wrote:
Herr Flick wrote:
cudo nisu sve poubijali :-)
Meni ovo sve izgleda toliko neorganizovano. Stoje napolju i pucaju bez nekog organizovanog upada i prepada. Ovi civili što izlaze trče okolo a niko da ih dočeka organizovano, ovako nije ni čudo da je ona pobjegla. Svašta stvarno. :shock:
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#2936 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by rekla-kazala »

groove wrote:
Herr Flick wrote:
cudo nisu sve poubijali :-)
pravi profesionalci, ruska škola,... i rusi kad su spašavali taoce il su fasovali metak il su ih pobili otrovnim gasom.
Ovi specijalci ispucali par stotina metaka kroz staklena vrata pa ih onda nogama razvaljuju.
Ovu braću kažu napali kad nisu bili u istoj prostoriji sa taocem ( jednim taocem ), navodno su imali krticu u objektu koja im je davala informacije.
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insomnia78
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#2937 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by insomnia78 »

uglavnomja wrote:par detalja iz novina

-ubijeni iz kosher prodavnice je razgovarao sa nekim (novinarem valjda) i rekao da su radili zajedno, da su braca isla u redakciju, a on je trebao sprijecavati policiju (tad je ubio policajku)

-policija mu je prisluskivala telefon i kad je poceo da se moli skontali su da ce poceti ubijati taoce pa su upali unutra
Policajka je ubijena sutradan
Vjerovatno kao odvlacenje paznje od njih
Bio je zajedno u zatvoru sa jednim od brace i obojica su posjecivali te radikalne krugove
Inace ubijena policajka je bila pripravnica takodjer crnkinja i dosla je na uvidjaj saobracajne nesrece
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uglavnomja
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#2938 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by uglavnomja »

insomnia78 wrote:
uglavnomja wrote:par detalja iz novina

-ubijeni iz kosher prodavnice je razgovarao sa nekim (novinarem valjda) i rekao da su radili zajedno, da su braca isla u redakciju, a on je trebao sprijecavati policiju (tad je ubio policajku)

-policija mu je prisluskivala telefon i kad je poceo da se moli skontali su da ce poceti ubijati taoce pa su upali unutra
Policajka je ubijena sutradan
Vjerovatno kao odvlacenje paznje od njih
Bio je zajedno u zatvoru sa jednim od brace i obojica su posjecivali te radikalne krugove
Inace ubijena policajka je bila pripravnica takodjer crnkinja i dosla je na uvidjaj saobracajne nesrece

a sta je jedan od brace pricao, kako ga je poslala al kaida jemen i nekakav lik mu je platio put prije nego sto je poginuo? ne skontah najbolje. hebeno, prica francuski, a dole norveski tekst pa se sve zbrkalo :roll:
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#2939 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Zavatoni »

:thumbup:

Nema 'ali'..
Zločin je zločin i za ovo opravdanja nema.

A krivi su svi...i surovi kapitalizam i ksenofobija zapada...koji je napravio svijet ovako lošim mjestom za život...i neobrazovani fanatizam arapskog svijeta koji dopušta da mu 'krvoločni čobani' tumače vjeru u smislu da je u redu mrziti i ubijati...da se tako čine djela koja će ih u dženet odvesti ... ma katastrofa je gdje ovaj svijet ide...
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#2940 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Sezam »

SkyLimit wrote:U moru gluposti ovih dana, naletih na jedan dobar tekst:
Dobar tekst.
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#2941 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Ima Bosne_Bice Bosne »

O'zone wrote:Interesantan članak koji govori o pravoj slobodi govora, prilično dugačak, ima karikatura pa se bar to može pogledati

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... -cartoons/


Citiram drugi dio koji govori baš o slobodi govora i koliko ona postoji i kakave su njene posljedice u "zapadnoj demokratiji" jer za "istočnu" već znamo kakve su.
When we originally discussed publishing this article to make these points, our intention was to commission two or three cartoonists to create cartoons that mock Judaism and malign sacred figures to Jews the way Charlie Hebdo did to Muslims. But that idea was thwarted by the fact that no mainstream western cartoonist would dare put their name on an anti-Jewish cartoon, even if done for satire purposes, because doing so would instantly and permanently destroy their career, at least. Anti-Islam and anti-Muslim commentary (and cartoons) are a dime a dozen in western media outlets; the taboo that is at least as strong, if not more so, are anti-Jewish images and words. Why aren’t Douthat, Chait, Yglesias and their like-minded free speech crusaders calling for publication of anti-Semitic material in solidarity, or as a means of standing up to this repression? Yes, it’s true that outlets like The New York Times will very rarely publish such depictions, but only to document hateful bigotry and condemn it – not to publish it in “solidarity” or because it deserves a serious and respectful airing.

With all due respect to the great cartoonist Ann Telnaes, it is simply not the case that Charlie Hebdo “were equal opportunity offenders.” Like Bill Maher, Sam Harris and other anti-Islam obsessives, mocking Judaism, Jews and/or Israel is something they will rarely (if ever) do. If forced, they can point to rare and isolated cases where they uttered some criticism of Judaism or Jews, but the vast bulk of their attacks are reserved for Islam and Muslims, not Judaism and Jews. Parody, free speech and secular atheism are the pretexts; anti-Muslim messaging is the primary goal and the outcome. And this messaging – this special affection for offensive anti-Islam speech – just so happens to coincide with, to feed, the militaristic foreign policy agenda of their governments and culture.

To see how true that is, consider the fact that Charlie Hebdo – the “equal opportunity” offenders and defenders of all types of offensive speech - fired one of their writers in 2009 for a writing a sentence some said was anti-Semitic (the writer was then charged with a hate crime offense, and won a judgment against the magazine for unfair termination). Does that sound like “equal opportunity” offending?

Nor is it the case that threatening violence in response to offensive ideas is the exclusive province of extremists claiming to act in the name of Islam. Terrence McNally’s 1998 play “Corpus Christi,” depicting Jesus as gay, was repeatedly cancelled by theaters due to bomb threats. Larry Flynt was paralyzed by an evangelical white supremacist who objected to Hustler‘s pornographic depiction of inter-racial couples. The Dixie Chicks were deluged with death threats and needed massive security after they publicly criticized George Bush for the Iraq War, which finally forced them to apologize out of fear. Violence spurred by Jewish and Christian fanaticism is legion, from abortion doctors being murdered to gay bars being bombed to a 45-year-old brutal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza due in part to the religious belief (common in both the U.S. and Israel) that God decreed they shall own all the land. And that’s all independent of the systematic state violence in the west sustained, at least in part, by religious sectarianism.

The New York Times‘ David Brooks today claims that anti-Christian bias is so widespread in America – which has never elected a non-Christian president – that “the University of Illinois fired a professor who taught the Roman Catholic view on homosexuality.” He forgot to mention that the very same university just terminated its tenure contract with Professor Steven Salaita over tweets he posted during the Israeli attack on Gaza that the university judged to be excessively vituperative of Jewish leaders, and that the journalist Chris Hedges was just disinvited to speak at the University of Pennsylvania for the Thought Crime of drawing similarities between Israel and ISIS.

That is a real taboo – a repressed idea – as powerful and absolute as any in the United States, so much so that Brooks won’t even acknowledge its existence. It’s certainly more of a taboo in the U.S. than criticizing Muslims and Islams, which is so frequently heard in mainstream circles – including the U.S. Congress – that one barely notices it any more.

This underscores the key point: there are all sorts of ways ideas and viewpoints are suppressed in the west. When those demanding publication of these anti-Islam cartoons start demanding the affirmative publication of those ideas as well, I’ll believe the sincerity of their very selective application of free speech principles. One can defend free speech without having to publish, let alone embrace, the offensive ideas being targeted. But if that’s not the case, let’s have equal application of this new principle.

Additional research was provided by Andrew Fishman

Email the author: glenn.greenwald@theintercep
:thumbup:

Reci ce ti, ako procitaju, "Haj, ba, koje vezo ovo ima sa onim u Parizu?".
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#2942 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by O'zone »

"Our Muslim countrymen are afraid today," said French Prime Minister Manuel Valls in a message reminding French to be compassionate and to avoid linking terrorist acts to their Muslim neighbours.
Captain Ahab
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#2943 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Captain Ahab »

Ima i ovaj snimak:

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#2944 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Captain Ahab »

Kllikker wrote:
BlueBlood wrote:Image

Na ovoj slici niko u zivotu nista teze od olovke nije digo. Vidis im po facama da su neki klocevi koje boli uho za sve... Nisu mrvice nikakvog straha osjetili u zivotu... Dok sam svoje djetinjstvo provodio pod granatama njima je to bilo shega sto vidim po ovim crtezima koje su crtali... i sad da se poistovjecujem sa njima ?!!? NE PADA MI NA PAMET !!!
odlično si ovo opisao. vidi se da je to goli nemoralni jad...
Meni ovi na slici izgledaju (po facama) kao tipovi s kojima mogu zamisliti da odem na kaficu ili se druzim (pa i da se poistovijetim), za razliku od njihovih ubica...
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#2945 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by BlueBlood »

meni slika nekako gay izgleda
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MyTao
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#2946 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by MyTao »

Imali sta gore od ovih likova sto na temi o jednom zlocinu traze da se prije osude, prvo spomene svaki drugi jebeni zlocin od postanka planete?

Sta ja sad treba da svaki put kada zelim pricati o dozivljajima i zlocinima u Srebrenici moram prvo spomenuti svaki zlocin ikad pocinjen?

Odvratno!
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#2947 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by Captain Ahab »

BlueBlood wrote:meni slika nekako gay izgleda
I meni, nasmijani su i izgledaju kao veselo drustvance...
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#2948 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by It_is_a_Leclerc »

insomnia78 wrote:
It_is_a_Leclerc wrote:
insomnia78 wrote:Skoro svi imami u Francuskoj su pozvali vjernike na smirivanje tenzija i izlazak zajedno sa Francuzima na nedeljno protestno okupljanje
Koliko je to sigurnosno realno ?!
Mislis da se Arapi pridruze francuzima?
Pa bice ih sigurno, bilo ih je vec prvu noc u parizu
Ne, nego da se uopće organizuju skupovi sa tako velikim brojem ljudi...
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#2949 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by hrasno38 »

Captain Ahab wrote:
Kllikker wrote:
BlueBlood wrote:Image

Na ovoj slici niko u zivotu nista teze od olovke nije digo. Vidis im po facama da su neki klocevi koje boli uho za sve... Nisu mrvice nikakvog straha osjetili u zivotu... Dok sam svoje djetinjstvo provodio pod granatama njima je to bilo shega sto vidim po ovim crtezima koje su crtali... i sad da se poistovjecujem sa njima ?!!? NE PADA MI NA PAMET !!!
odlično si ovo opisao. vidi se da je to goli nemoralni jad...
Meni ovi na slici izgledaju (po facama) kao tipovi s kojima mogu zamisliti da odem na kaficu ili se druzim (pa i da se poistovijetim), za razliku od njihovih ubica...
Ovo su prije svega ljudi koji za razliku od ovih ubica znaju: komunicirati, crtati, pisati i nije im sve ovo na nivou "gorila u magli".
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#2950 Re: Terorizam u Parizu!

Post by apsidejzi »

rekla-kazala wrote:
groove wrote:
Herr Flick wrote:
cudo nisu sve poubijali :-)
pravi profesionalci, ruska škola,... i rusi kad su spašavali taoce il su fasovali metak il su ih pobili otrovnim gasom.
Ovi specijalci ispucali par stotina metaka kroz staklena vrata pa ih onda nogama razvaljuju.
Ovu braću kažu napali kad nisu bili u istoj prostoriji sa taocem ( jednim taocem ), navodno su imali krticu u objektu koja im je davala informacije.
Ako su dva covjeka mogli ovoliko belaja napraviti haman bi Pariz pao za dan da im uleti 300 ISILovaca. Doduse ne bi bio prvi put. I Hitler se usetao svojevremeno.
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