Kako nastadosmo? Iz nicega, bog, vanzemaljci, ili...?

[KB9]

carski je kolko ti namjerno lafo ne zelis i ne mozes skontat ono sto ti ne ide u korist

[maraccana]

Ako se bar malo pogleda u relevantne podatke i istraživanja, ne postoji apsolutno nikakav dokaz direktnog učinka kanabisa, samo što je internet pun hipija i spamerskog smeća koji zabluđuju ljude, naročito zavjeraški sajtovi kao i za mnoge druge stvari (vakcine,chemtrails i slične idiotluke). Tu je relevantan podatak, ali naši stuĆnjaci znOju sve...

Although there is ongoing research, claims that cannabis has been proved to cure cancer are, according to Cancer Research UK, both prevalent on the internet and "highly misleading".

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org ... ce-so-far/

There’s no robust scientific evidence to show that cannabis or cannabis oil can successfully treat cancer. And it’s possible that smoking cannabis can increase the risk of lung cancer.

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org ... isleading/

[stari_rastafari]

carski je kolko ti namjerno lafo ne zelis i ne mozes skontat ono sto ti ne ide u korist

Sta to meni ne ide u korist? To sto ti mislis da su ljudi koji konzumiraju vutru klosari i narkomanski nehljebovici? Samo zelim da razumijem tvoje porive za takvo misljenje, a ne i da bih se s time slozio. Ja te opet pitam koja tvoja prava i potrebe uskracuju ljudi koji konzumiraju vutru?

Prebrzo donosis zakljucke i strpavas u jedan kos sve ljude.

[sizifinho]

primjer jedne sredine, mog naselja;
- ja sam neko ko tezi postizanju neceg u zivotu i duvam. Jako je malo ljudi s tim mentalitetom a da duva; tu u mom naselju. Ja ih znam 10-ak u vrh glave.

No zasigurno je vise onih koji dangube po vajkad, na parama majki i oceva kako bi duvalo a nista ne radilo. Ili eventualno se bavilo preprodajom.

No to je samo moj kvart.

A Dozer kaze da je svijet u cundari zato sto - mladi uce i slijepo vjeruju u sve sto im se kaze pa bla bla bla.

Hajmo napraviti paralelu samo s jednom zavjerom koju je dozer prezentovao:
parafraziram:

Vlada zna za vanzemaljce koji su nas cak i kontaktirali, i koji su jos u kontaktu s nasim vladama zato sto neki od.njih 50 zivi medju ljudima.[/size]

Fakt: svemir je ogroman. Ali nezamislivo ogroman. Toliko ogroman da ljudi, cak ni kad bi imali najnapredniju tehnologiju iz znanstvene fantastije - ne bi mogli napustiti lokalni klaster. Nikad.
A takvih klastera ima na milione.
Ako ima vanzemaljaca, koji su se slucajno potrefili da zive kad i mi ( uzevsi u obzir koliko je svemir star, i koliko je nama trebalo da dodjemo iz divljastva do jos-malo-pa-vladara Zemlje u odnosu na starost univerzuma - statisticki su minimalne sanse da smo se nasli zajedno i u isto vrijeme sa drugom civilizacijom) - opet brojcano su sanse minimalne da smo se nasli, u isto vrijeme, s drugom inteligencijom u jednom lokalnom klasteru u odnosu na velicinu univerzuma..

Vrijeme i prostor nama ne idu u korist. Svemir se konstantno siri a mi ni sa najnaprednijom tehnologijom iz sf-a koju je covjek trenutno mogao zamisliti - necemo nikad izaci izvan tog lokalnog klastera.

Sanse su da, ako je bio zivot inteligentan vani, i ako mi nismo izuzetak koji potvrdjuje neko kozmicko pravilo -
vanzemaljci su najvjerovatnije davno izumrli, ili ce doci davno poslije nas.

A hajmo reci da zaista postoje, da su civilizacija tipa 3-4... opet, zasto bi im mi bili bitni do te mjere da nam upravljaju vladom?
Znanstvena fantastika je zaista divna, ali upravo to i jeste - fantastika.
Najvjerovatniji slucaj bi bio da bi nas pogledali, izucili i otiski, ne mjesajuci se...kao sto ni covjek ne pokusava pretjerano previse promijeniti mravinjak na koji je naisao.

Ovo su fakti. Ovo su cinjenice i razlikuju se od imaginativnih ideja fikcije. Eistein je rekao da naucnik nije nista bez maste, i upravu je. No pretjerana masta nema mjesta u nauci jer je bazirana iskljucivo pretpostavkama a pretpostavke su daleko.od fakta.

Uzevsi ovo u obzir - ja ne vjerujem da su nas kontaktirali vanzemaljci niti da nam crtaju po zitu. Taman posla za nekog kome je put ood Alfa Kentaurija do Zemlje - 4h

S druge strane Dozer vjeruje u svoje ne zato sto je on kopao po wikileaksu sam od sebe, vec sto se nacitao necijih komentara po forumima, blogova i kvazi-stranica.
Kako znam da je procitao a nije sam dosao na zakljucke?
Jer je isuvise jednaka njegovs prica sa onom koju pise njegov ekvivalent na nekom drugom.internet forumu.
Ali doslovno. U argument.
Fotografije koje je on lijepio ovdje, gotovo u.identicnom redosljedu se mogu naci na redditu.

Tako da, ako uzmemo u obzir da dozer vjeruje u nesto jer je to neko tamo napisao iz glave
a sizifinho ne vjeruje jer je svoje.misljenje izveo na osnov naucnih fakta...ko tu slijepo vjeruje u sta? Sizif u nauku ili Dozer u pretpostavke individualaca po internetu?

Apsurdistan.

[KB9]

carski je kolko ti namjerno lafo ne zelis i ne mozes skontat ono sto ti ne ide u korist

Sta to meni ne ide u korist? To sto ti mislis da su ljudi koji konzumiraju vutru klosari i narkomanski nehljebovici? Samo zelim da razumijem tvoje porive za takvo misljenje, a ne i da bih se s time slozio. Ja te opet pitam koja tvoja prava i potrebe uskracuju ljudi koji konzumiraju vutru?

Prebrzo donosis zakljucke i strpavas u jedan kos sve ljude.

vecinski bolan, velika vecina, kontas?

[stari_rastafari]

Jbg, u mom okruzenju nije tako. Sta da ti kazem. Ne sporim da postoje i ljudi koji duvaju i lijenguze su ali postoje i ljudi koji duvaju a prave nesto sa svog zivota, sto znaci da nije pravilo i ne mozes za to okriviti vutru. Biti protiv legalizacije tek radi nekih koji bi bili isti sa vutrom ili bez za mene nema smisla. Druga stvar sto bi legalizacijom automatski rijesio dosta nekih drugih stvari. Sa stavom da "svi ti koji zele da se legalizuje to zele samo da bi mogli biti nadrogirani lezihljebovici" necemo iskoristiti potencijal vutre kojeg je dosta.

[stari_rastafari]

Da podijelim i sa vama jedan isjecak iz knjige koju trenutno citam, radi se o jednom kratkom presjeku onoga sto sam vise manje dosada napisao, laicki, sa nekim dodatnim detaljima. Ovo je samo isjecak i time preporuka za knjigu. Knjiga ima ocigledno mnogo dodirnih tacaka sa nasim zanimanjem ovdje. Dostupna ovdje na Engleskom, nas prijevod nisam ni trazio:

CHAPTER FOUR
Understanding the Sociopath

Most of us naturally want to believe that everyone is kindhearted and considerate of others, and has at least predominantly positive intentions. We want to believe that our governments and financial systems are fair and equitable, and aside from a certain amount of greed and corruption, they are basically trustworthy and responsible. On a global level, we are increasingly awakening to the fact that some people can be very negative in their conscious focus—and they may also have formed shadowy, elite groups that have manipulated politics, finance, and media for generations. On April 2, 2013, a survey by Public Policy Polling, a top American organization analyzing political trends, revealed that “28 percent of [American] voters believe a
secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government, or New World Order.” This included thirty-eight percent of all Republican/Romney voters. If almost one-third of the American public is willing to tell an anonymous stranger on the phone that they believe a dangerous, elite group like this really does exist, we are no longer dealing with a “fringe” subject. Thousands of hours of academic research on this subject since 1992 have convinced me that a shadowy group like this does exist-and must be
stopped. On November 23, 2011-just days before I legally agreed to write The Synchronicity Key—an incredible lawsuit emerged that was a bold and
direct act of war against many top global players, including some of the international bankers who formed the Federal Reserve. A fifty-seven-nation
alliance, headquartered in Southeast Asia, was seeking the return of a massive amount of wealth, mostly in gold, that they felt had been stolen from them and put on “deposit” with the Federal Reserve. This alliance has now expanded to more than 160 countries as of April 2013. As a result
of being an increasingly visible public figure since I launched my own website in 1999, I have gained the trust and confidence of a group of patriotic, high-level insiders who have access to classified information, and want to restore freedom and peace on earth. According to these insiders, this 160-
nation alliance is supported by a significant majority of the US military, who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I was told that certain branches of the US military were 100 percent in support of exposing how the Federal
Reserve bankers had infiltrated government and politics in our modern world. On April 25, 2013, the ugly truth became even more apparent as another massive financial scandal leaked into public view-revealed through the brave investigative journalism of Matt Taibbi with Rolling Stone magazine.

Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game. We found this out in recent months, when a series of related corruption stories spilled out of the financial sector, suggesting the world’s largest banks may be fixing the prices of, well, just about everything.
You may have heard of the Libor scandal, in which at least three-and perhaps as many as 16-of the name-brand too-big-to-fail banks have been manipulating global interest rates, in the process messing around with the prices of upward of $500 trillion (that’s trillion, with a “t”) worth of financial instruments. When that sprawling con burst into public view last year, it was easily the biggest financial scandal in history-MIT professor Andrew Lo even said it “dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets.” That was bad enough, but now Libor may have a twin brother…. It should surprise no one that among the players implicated in this scheme…are the same megabanks-including Barclays, UBS, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and the Royal Bank of Scotland-that serve on the Libor panel that sets global interest rates. In fact, in recent years many of these banks have already paid multimillion-dollar settlements for anti-competitive manipulation of one form or another…. The only reason this problem has not received the attention it deserves is because the scale of it is so enormous that ordinary people simply cannot see it.
A war like this could not be fought by conventional means, as these powerful banks have almost limitless financial resources to fight back with. The lawsuit was one key part of a much larger operation the alliance was conducting to legally and financially block the adversary from being able to do harm, while systematically exposing its greatest secrets at the same time. This lawsuit was filed two hundred years and sixteen days after the Prophet’s alliance of Native American tribes attacked Harrison’s forces in Tippecanoe, on November 7, 1811-which I did not realize until I was writing
this chapter of the book. In the Battle of Tippecanoe, back in 1811, the Native Americans were demanding the return of massive amounts of land they felt had been stolen from them. In 2011, the alliance was seeking the return of massive amounts of gold they felt had been stolen from them.
Again, these two events were only sixteen days apart within two turns of a hundred-year cycle-or ten turns of a twenty-year cycle. Whether the initiative will succeed in this cycle or fall prey to the same weaknesses and failures that occurred in the previous cycle remains to be seen at the time of this writing.
Again-this battle had to be fought through multiple, nonlethal means, including hacking and deleting bank accounts, filing key lawsuits, exposing corruption, blocking the inflow of money, and threatening key members with public exposure, thus forcing them to peacefully step down and resign.
An international businessman named Neil Keenan filed this groundbreaking lawsuit on November 23, 2011-on behalf of the Asian members of the alliance. This was a direct attack against financial tyranny, in the interest of peace and freedom for everyone-and was deliberately timed to coincide
with the forty-eight-year anniversary of Kennedy’s assassination. I wrote a detailed criticism of this lawsuit three days after it appeared and was very surprised when the alliance contacted me directly to provide further evidence. One thing the alliance told me was that Kennedy’s move to print silver
certificates, outside of Federal Reserve control, was planned out with Indonesian president Sukarno to help restore the US Constitution, and was apparently the main reason Kennedy was assassinated in 1963.
Beginning on December 1, 2011, I was given fascinating inside information by the alliance, much of which could be proven. This included a treasure trove of hundreds of original documents and photographs.102 The problem was this: Whether or not this story was true, it was considered so
dangerous to investigate, so highly classified, and so complicated that no one else in the public eye was willing or able to write it up. The government leaders and officials within the alliance had been told that their entire family tree would be tortured and killed if they stood up to this Global
Adversary. As those shocking emails first came rolling in, I had no idea that I was about to get drawn into writing an entire book’s worth of material on the subject of the Global Adversary. I never took a single penny of money from any person or group involved in the operation, in order to remain truly independent, so no one could ask me for a favor later on. I had no idea, at the time, that the difficulty and deadly seriousness of this investigation would distract me from finishing The Synchronicity Key for more than a year-but this did seem like a small price to pay for freedom.
Although the whole idea of a Global Adversary might have been written off as crazy by most people, I had been tracking it ever since my college class in 1992 had revealed the truth-and now the lawsuit and the documents were very real. I realized that if the alliance’s plans to expose corruption and change the world were successful, this could become the mother of all historical events. Rather than just observing the cycles of history, I had the opportunity to jump right into the global Wheel of Karma myself. I could now directly assist an international alliance-featuring a majority of the largest countries in the world-in fighting the globalist bankers who had seized control of several top Western financial systems. I knew that the ageless wisdom behind the Wheel of Karma tells us that if we learn the lessons these cycles of boom and bust are teaching us, we can have the wheel reach the top without having to repeat the same sequence of misery and pain. Three of my all-time favorite Law of One quotes explain this very well.
17.20 In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action-or what you call karma.
18.12 Forgiveness of other-self is forgiveness of self. An understanding of this insists upon full forgiveness upon the conscious level of self and other-self, for they are one. A full forgiveness is thus impossible without the inclusion of self.
1.9 The distinction between yourself and others is not visible to us. We do not consider that a separation exists between…the distortion which you project as a personality and the distortion which you project as an other personality.
In The Source Field Investigations, I presented many instances of “suppressed” scientific information-including free-energy technology, gravity shielding, teleportation, and energy medicine. Whether by collective ignorance or deliberate design, these world-changing discoveries never received any publicity in the media-which meant that very few people knew about them. I had felt all along that the ancient vision of a Golden Age could not be fully realized in our present world. There was far too much institutional corruption and pressure to maintain the status quo, from the oil companies, for example, which definitely did not want free energy.
In 1997, the Institute for New Energy revealed that “the US Patent Office has classified over 3,000 patent devices or applications under the secrecy order, Title 35, US Code (1952) Sections 181–188.”106 By the end of fiscal year 2010, the number of suppressed patents had expanded to 5,135 inventions-according to the Federation of American Scientists. Any solar cell with greater than 20 percent efficiency, or any power system that is more than 70 to 80 percent efficient at converting energy, is automatically targeted for “review and possible restriction.”After Neil Keenan’s lawsuit was filed in the Southern District Court of New York on November 23, 2011, and the alliance began sending me documents on December 1, 2011, I wrote my first large investigation on the subject, entitled “Confirmed: The Trillion-Dollar Lawsuit that Could End Financial Tyranny.”
As I documented in a variety of long and complex articles on my website, Divine Cosmos, I spent many years researching these subjects-and as I became more public I had ultimately developed contacts with a variety of people who had access to highly classified information. Anytime I caught
someone knowingly lying to me or trying to manipulate me, I cut off the contact and worked only with people who seemed to genuinely have humanity’s best interests at heart. Once I knew the right questions to ask, various insiders repeatedly confirmed that what the alliance was telling me was true. There was indeed one great secret-more highly classified and jealously guarded than all others in modern history…including the UFO subject.

The Path of Separation
Ordinary people could not hold a secret like this. Telling such incredibly vast lies would utterly ruin their lives, leaving them so plagued with anxiety that they would eventually break down and either tell the truth or commit suicide. However, about 1 percent of the people in our world are sociopaths.109 Humanity as a whole is only just beginning to understand that there really are people out there who think, feel, and behave this way. Breaking through the denial is a very important step for our healing on a collective level. Sociopaths honestly do not think they are doing anything wrong-and in Law of One terms, they are practicing the path of “service to self,” also known as the path of separation.
36.14 We remind you that the negative path is one of separation. What is the first separation? The self from the self.
In the very beginning of chapter 1, I gave a summary of how people who are “negatively polarized” tend to think, feel, and act-and now we will examine it more thoroughly. The Law of One series made clear analogies between the positive and negative paths.
19.17 Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences, as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious—their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature.
80.15 The service-to-self adept will satisfy itself with the shadows and, grasping the light of day, will toss back the head in grim laughter—preferring the darkness.

The Synchronicity Key [The Hidden Intelligence Guiding The Universe And You]
About David Wilcock

[stari_rastafari]

Exposing the Sociopath
Psychologists refer to this strongly negative personality type as a “psychopath” or “sociopath.” The people in this category have almost completely turned off their empathy and care for others, or at least those outside their chosen group. They usually have pain and trauma that runs so deep that they no longer care about other people’s feelings and in fact gain great pleasure from manipulating and controlling them. They are capable of committing strongly criminal acts with no remorse. They are often highly self-involved, have elaborate, impenetrable defense mechanisms, believe themselves to be superior to others, and feel entitled to many benefits and privileges that others do not enjoy. They may also be highly charismatic, extroverted, and attractive to others. Many people do not notice the negative side of their personalities at first, since these traits are often very well hidden. Sociopaths are also in a constant fight against boredom and seek thrills whenever and however possible. In many cases, power over others becomes their ultimate drug of choice—and the more of it they get, the more they want, because nothing ever satisfies the hunger inside. Serial killers, for example, get such a high from taking the life of another human being that they become compelled to do it again and again, even if they are well aware that they could get caught. Of course, most sociopaths are not actually murderers. They drain the lives of others more slowly. At their core, they are deeply depressed and miserable and are willing to risk their own lives, or even end their lives, for the next thrill.
Interestingly, some professional astrologers are able to identify serial killers by known configurations that appear in their birth charts. Carolyn Reynolds, a well-known astrologer, was handed twenty astrological charts by the producers of the television program Unsolved Mysteries. The producers included the charts of four serial killers within this set of twenty—Jeffrey Dahmer, David “Son of Sam” Berkowitz, David “the Night Stalker” Ramirez, and Ed Kemper. Without knowing the identities of the people in these charts or having ever studied their astrology before, Carolyn Reynolds was able to identify all four of them as potential serial killers. Edna Rowland, another professional astrologer, was involved in a similar experiment and successfully identified six other serial killers within a larger group of random birth charts, none of which she had ever seen before. The results were published in Destined for Murder: Profiles of Six Serial Killers with Astrological Commentary.
Sociopaths are the most extreme examples of people who tend toward the negative path. As Dale Carnegie documented in his 1937 classic How to Win Friends and Influence People, convicted criminals on death row, including serial killers, often continue to insist that they are good people and have done nothing wrong. When asked how they can justify taking the lives of their victims, they come up with a variety of excuses, or they may not even be willing to admit that they committed these crimes at all. People with sociopathic behaviors see morals, ethics, and conscience as weaknesses that can be exploited. They have a passionate need to be in charge, to lead the way, and to dominate others. These excerpts from an article by axwell C. Bridges shed more light on the mind-set of sociopaths.

Out of all humanity, approximately three percent of men and one percent of women are sociopaths…. Such people can tell right from wrong in their behavior, but derive no unpleasant feelings when they commit the latter. They…look down on those bound by conscience. The truth is a matter of convenience for them, to be biased to their advantage…. Many of them are charming and debonair when so inclined, [and] manipulative and vicious when they can get away with it. They can “read” like a book the body language and facial expressions of the conscience-driven. They can fake motions, seek pity and affection they never feel for others, and seduce their victims before they exploit or injure them on purpose. They use people and discard them the way you would use a Kleenex and throw it away….
Since their brains are not preoccupied by the infinite subconscious calculations of moral conscience and love, they are burdened with a semi-permanent drudgery of boredom they can only relieve by serial, risky behaviors—and elaborate manipulations (torture, humiliation, and betrayal) of their conscientious inferiors. They usually wind up in old age alone, broke and shunned by everyone—their family included. Many are killed or socially crushed by a powerful protector of one of their victims, or by numerous avengers. Very few die in their bed surrounded by people who love them.

[stari_rastafari]

Wealth and Power Can Lead to Sociopathic Behavior
I am absolutely convinced that sociopathic attitudes and behaviors can develop in a person who did not have any particular astrological configuration or genetic indications of these traits from birth. People who acquire significant wealth and power can easily develop sociopathic qualities, particularly if they do not have a strong and loving foundation to begin with. The problem with having worldly power is that other people want it from you. If you know someone with fame and fortune, you may find that people approach you just to try to get to your friend. The more money and power you have, the more it seems that everyone you meet has an angle. Everyone wants your money. Everyone wants to use you to get ahead. These are, of course, exaggerations, as not everyone actually does this, but it can certainly seem like it.
Many folks love to hate people with wealth and power, as it makes them feel better about their own lives. We read stories about the rich and powerful and wish that we could get our own chance to find out how horrible that life would be. However, even if you have a huge house, a luxury car, and enough money to eat out at fine restaurants every night and take lavish vacations, happiness is still a choice—not a guarantee. If the people you interact with are constantly trying to manipulate you and take advantage of you, it can be very difficult to choose happiness. All the treasures of the material world mean nothing if you don’t have love. As the Beatles were on their meteoric rise to fame in the aftermath of the success of “I Want to Hold Your Hand,” Paul McCartney sat at an upright piano in the five-star George V hotel in Paris, under severe pressure to write another hit song, and wrote “Can’t Buy Me Love.” This is arguably the most popular song in modern history to plainly state that material wealth and success cannot buy you the love you are seeking. In fact, it often has just the opposite effect.
This is also why lottery winners often end up quite unhappy and feel that winning the money was the worst thing that could have ever happened to them. Sandra Hayes, a former child services worker, split a $224 million Powerball jackpot with a dozen of her coworkers in 2006 and collected
a lump sum in excess of $6 million after taxes: “I had to endure the greed and the need that people have, trying to get you to release your money to them. That caused a lot of emotional pain. These are people who you’ve loved deep down, and they’re turning into vampires trying to suck the life out of
me.”

[stari_rastafari]

Laboratory Studies of Sociopathic Behavior in Ordinary People
In 1971, Stanford psychology professor Dr. Philip Zimbardo created what is now called the Stanford Prison Experiment, which shed light on another way in which sociopathic behaviors can develop. Zimbardo and his colleagues set up a makeshift prison in the basement of Jordan Hall and sought volunteers to become either prisoners or prison guards at random. The participating students would be paid $15 a day for two weeks. Seventy volunteers were given interviews and a battery of psychological tests. From this number, the twenty-four men who were judged to be the most normal, average, and healthy were chosen. On Sunday, August 17, 1971, real Palo Alto police officers showed up at the homes of the nine young men assigned to be prisoners and “arrested” them. Some of the participants were recorded leaving their homes in handcuffs by TV cameras for the nightly news, as their neighbors and friends looked on with astonishment. They were then taken and booked at a real jail, blindfolded, and driven to the prison created for them at Stanford. The students who were assigned to be guards were given uniforms and told that their job was to maintain control of the prison without using violence.
The guards became increasingly cruel to the prisoners—particularly after the prisoners staged a revolt on the second day. After the guards crushed the rebellion, “they steadily increased their coercive aggression tactics, humiliation, and dehumanization of the prisoners,” Zimbardo said. This included forcing prisoners to clean out toilet bowls with their hands or act out degrading scenarios. The worst abuses occurred in the middle of the night, when the guards thought the researchers weren’t watching. Some guards told the prisoners that this was not an experiment—they actually had been imprisoned, this was their life now, and it would be years before they could ever escape. This abuse caused such severe stress on the nine prisoners that five of them had to be released prematurely, one per day.
Five days into the experiment, Dr. Philip Zimbardo’s girlfriend, Christina Maslach, who had just received her doctorate from Stanford and was starting an assistant professorship at Berkeley, showed up to see what was going on. Although she found it “dull and boring” at first, she was quickly horrified by what she saw.128 This began shortly after she started up a conversation with a “charming, funny and smart” young man who was working as one of the prison guards. She had heard from other researchers that one guard was particularly sadistic and had been nicknamed John Wayne by both the prisoners and the other guards. After the charming young man started his shift, she asked the researchers to point out John Wayne—and was shocked to realize that this was the same person she had just spoken to: “This man had been transformed. He was talking in a different accent—a Southern accent, which I hadn’t recalled at all. He moved differently, and the way he talked was different, not just in the accent, but in the way he was interacting with the prisoners. It was like [seeing] Jekyll and Hyde…. It really took my breath away.”
One prisoner then confronted John Wayne for tripping him on the way to the bathroom when no researchers were around to see the act. The prisoner accused him of enjoying his job, but John Wayne refused to budge, saying if he went easy on them, his role wouldn’t remain powerful. Maslach also
saw the guards take the prisoners to the bathroom with paper bags over their heads before their bedtime. Her fellow researchers teased her when this made her feel sick to her stomach. That night, she had a wildly intense fight with Zimbardo and demanded he end the experiment. He ultimately
realized that he and his colleagues had also lost compassion for the prisoners, just as the guards had, and the experiment needed to be stopped. The very next day it was all brought to a close. Maslach and Zimbardo married in 1972, and she became a full professor at Berkeley, conducting research into dehumanization. Her conclusions, as expressed here in a Stanford University press release, are still very relevant in today’s world.

“I started interviewing prison guards, real ones, and also people in emergency medical care. Out of that grew a lot of the research I have done over the years on job burn-out,” she said. Her work has looked at “how people who are responsible for the care and treatment of others can come to view those they care for in object-like ways, leading them, in some cases, to behave in ways that are really insensitive, uncaring, brutal and dehumanizing.”

Interestingly, Zimbardo’s high school classmate Stanley Milgram also conducted a groundbreaking experiment with similar implications in 1965. A white-coated researcher told the participants in the experiment to administer electric shocks to a stranger whenever that person got an answer incorrect on a questionnaire. The stranger was in an adjacent room, behind a one-way mirror, but the participant could see and hear everything. Although no real shocks were occurring, the stranger would scream in agony when the shocks were apparently being delivered. Every time the
participant felt queasy and questioned the researcher, he or she was simply told that the experiment must continue. Despite the cries of the stranger reaching the level of true death agony as the scale went up, fully two-thirds of all the participants administered the maximum dose of electricity—a
staggering 750 volts—which was clearly labeled “DANGER—SEVERE SHOCK.”131 Many of these participants were later horrified by their own dark potential after the true nature of the experiment was revealed to them. In the aftermath of the Milgram and Zimbardo experiments, new laws were
passed to prevent psychological experiments from violating ethics, and as a result, most of these tests are now simply in the form of paper-and-pencil questionnaires.
Both the Zimbardo and Milgram experiments reveal that ordinary people can easily dehumanize others when placed in unusual circumstances. Certain roles, such as the prison guard or the authority figure giving orders that we then feel compelled to follow, are expected to carry specific behaviors
along with them. Once you acquire wealth and power and begin interacting with a greater community of wealthy and powerful people on a regular basis, it becomes much easier to adopt their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors as your own. Even if you initially feel badly about certain attitudes and
practices they may have, the desire to obey the will of your peers can be very strong—as Milgram’s electric shock experiment revealed. The difficulties of having lifelong friends turn on you and want you to give them your money can be very dramatic, as Sandra Hayes discovered, along with many other lottery winners like her. Christina Maslach’s research after her experience with the Stanford Prison Experiment extended into a study of caregivers who develop job burnout after being responsible for the welfare of others. Government, military, finance, and corporate management jobs
all involve power over others. The constantly conflicting wants and needs of those they serve candefinitely create “compassion fatigue.”

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3726704/?ref_=nv_sr_1
Plot Summary:
1961. Stanley Milgram designs a psychology experiment in which people think they deliver electric shocks to a stranger in another room. Milgram is trying to come to terms with the Holocaust. His experiment is about conformity, conscience and free will. He doesn't expect the results, 65% of the subjects deliver shocks that may be fatal, obeying commands from a lab-coated authority figure. Milgram is accused of being a monster. His next experiments are more hopeful. He reignites controversy with his book, Obedience to Authority. Fortified by the love of his family, Milgram carries on, exploring human nature, fighting false perceptions. The film's style is as playful and provocative as a Milgram experiment, showing how Milgram's conscience and creative spirit continue to be resonant and inspirational.

(Sto se tice ovog filma, moje misljenje je da treba istraziti historiju prije donosenja nekih zakljucaka. Sluzbena historija nam ne pruza istinite fakte tako da neke informacije iz ovog filma treba uzeti sa rezervom.)

[sizifinho]

Ma ja, ja budala citam - kontam nesto pametno, al jok. Samo pametan covjek, ovaj cikica, demagogiranjem stvari koje su opce poznate, stvori "misteriju", predstavlja se kao bivsi "skeptik" prema teorijama zavjere - zna da ima publiku i fine pare zgrnu.

Naravno, evo primjeta kako oni formiraju svoja misljenja. Citajuci kvazi knjige od kvazi pisaca koji nista konkretno ne kazu, osim sto podupiru zavjere.
Kao sto rekoh, oni vjeruju da mi slijepo vjerujemo, a da su njima horizonti otvoreni, a kao sto mozemo vidjeti situacija je daleko drugacija.
Imam osjecaj da Tolkien nije objavio svog gospodara prstrnova i da je na njrgovr spise kasnije naisao jedan od ovih New Age isprdaka - starirastafari bi nam pricali o tako nekim Varuvarima i slicno.

Slijepo vjeruju bijasnim ljudima. Da je ovaj lik napisao kako govno pluta atlantikom.u znak protesta protiv svjetskih banki - stari bi ga citirao ovdje.

[Dozer]

A Dozer kaze da je svijet u cundari zato sto - mladi uce i slijepo vjeruju u sve sto im se kaze pa bla bla bla.

Hoce li ti ikada dodijati da izvrces ono sto ja napisem?
Napisao sam:

Ne, Sizife, nismo mi zato u kurcu, nego smo tu gdje jesmo upravo radi likova koji nesto znaju, a onda to koriste za manipulaciju i licne interese. Ima medju njima i samo takvih tokmaka, cinjenica, ali u svemu tome nisu problem svi oni.
Problem su ljudi kao ti, koji im slijepo vjerujete sve sto kazu, i uopste ne razmisljate da li je to zaista tako kako oni kazu i predstave. A pogotovoo vam ne pada na pamet da bilo sta istrazite. Zalosno je sto ste u takvom stanju svijesti s tako malo godina. To su vasi temelji, i na njima vi vec sada gradite svoj zivot. A to je totalno pogresno.
Kako jedan pametan lik rece - Inteligentnni ljudi uvijek preispituju i istrazuju sve oko sebe. Neinteligentni samo slusaju i vjeruju u sve sto "autoriteti" kazu.

Eto...ti mi pokazi gdje pise i dio ovoga sto si ti skontao da pise....

Vrijeme i prostor nama ne idu u korist. Svemir se konstantno siri a mi ni sa najnaprednijom tehnologijom iz sf-a koju je covjek trenutno mogao zamisliti - necemo nikad izaci izvan tog lokalnog klastera.

Drug moj, upravo ovo sto si napisao je sva sustina onoga o cemu ja pricam - sve sto ti i nasa nauka pricate je zasnovano na nasem postojecem znanju i pretpostavkama. A, da li uopste mozes pojmiti da, mozda, postoje stvari koje mi cak ne mozemo ni zamisliti?

Sanse su da, ako je bio zivot inteligentan vani, i ako mi nismo izuzetak koji potvrdjuje neko kozmicko pravilo -
vanzemaljci su najvjerovatnije davno izumrli, ili ce doci davno poslije nas.

Vidis li o cemu pricam? I sam kazes da je svemir toliki da ga mi ne mozemo ni zamisliti, a onda se pozivas na nekakva kosmicka pravila. Ko je i na osnovu kojeg znanja i iskustva na ovoj planeti u stanju uopste reci bilo sta cinjenicno o necemu sto ne mozemo cak ni zamisliti? Nije li ovo paradoksalno?

Najvjerovatniji slucaj bi bio da bi nas pogledali, izucili i otiski, ne mjesajuci se...kao sto ni covjek ne pokusava pretjerano previse promijeniti mravinjak na koji je naisao.

Ovdje opet, naravno, grijesis. Pored mravinjaka cemo proci ti i ja, jer nas ne zanima. Mozda malo zastanemo i pogledamo kako i sta mravi rade, cisto znatizelje radi, ali to nije slucaj s mnogim drugim ljudima koji mrave vrlo pomno istrazuju i koriste za sve i svasta. Sto njih same, sto njihovu kiselinu, sto kopiraju njihovu organizaciju. Toplo ti preporucijem dokumentarac "Mravi" (Ants). Vjeruj mi da ces se sjebati kad to odgledas. Usput, znas li koja je ukupno najteza vrsta na planeti? Mravi.

S druge strane Dozer vjeruje u svoje ne zato sto je on kopao po wikileaksu sam od sebe, vec sto se nacitao necijih komentara po forumima, blogova i kvazi-stranica.
Kako znam da je procitao a nije sam dosao na zakljucke?
Jer je isuvise jednaka njegovs prica sa onom koju pise njegov ekvivalent na nekom drugom.internet forumu.
Ali doslovno. U argument.
Fotografije koje je on lijepio ovdje, gotovo u.identicnom redosljedu se mogu naci na redditu.

Ovdje nemam pojma o cemu pricas jer ja ne ucestvujem u ovakvoj temi nigdje drugo, niti citam bilo koji drugi forum. Ali, ne znam da li neko cita ovo ovdje pa prenosi negdje drugo. Ukratko, ja ti ne kopiram nikoga i ni odakle.

Tako da, ako uzmemo u obzir da dozer vjeruje u nesto jer je to neko tamo napisao iz glave
a sizifinho ne vjeruje jer je svoje.misljenje izveo na osnov naucnih fakta...ko tu slijepo vjeruje u sta? Sizif u nauku ili Dozer u pretpostavke individualaca po internetu?

Jos jednom - Dozer ovdje pise iz svoje glave, a ne kopira nikoga ni odakle, odnosno iznosim svoja misljenja na bazi raznih cinjenica.
A Sizifino nema svoje misljenje, nego samo citira ili interpretira ono sto su drugi rekli ili napisali, i to smatra faktima samo jer su ti neki priznati kao neki autoriteti.
Kako zaista mozemo znati da je to nesto sto oni kazu tacno i istina? Kako znamo da su njihove PRETPOSTAVKE o svemiru, vanzemaljcima, mogucnostima njihove posjete nama, itd. - TACNE?
Ako mi mozes dati neki jasan odgovor na ovo, a ne samo nesto tipa "ako je taj i taj, koji vazi za to i to tako rekao, valjda mi nismo pametniji od njega i ko smo mi da to dovodimo u pitanje" i sl. Nadam se da ti je jasno da ovakvim odgovorima samo potvdjujes ovo sto vam ja goroim o vasem slijednjenju bez vlastitog razmisljanja i misljenja.

[Dozer]

@Dozer
Mala ispravka, nas mozak ne luci THC ali upravo spomenute endokanabidoide koji u kombinaciji sa THC-om i CBD-om imaju blagodarne ucinke na nase tijelo i duh. Ta kombinacija je ustvari zasluzna za izgradnju imuniteta pa samim time drasticno usporavanje sirenja celija raka.

Mislim da grijesis.... THC aktivira receptore CB1 i CB2, a kanabinoidi koje nas mozak proizvodi aktiviraju upravo te receptore, sto znaci da nas mozak proizvodi THC.
http://phys.org/news/2007-06-cannabinoi ... ffect.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 151240.htm
Itd.

[sizifinho]

moj dozeru, dozeru... ccc
ko i napisao bih ti nesto, ali nakon svakog tvog komentara sam uvjeren da nemas pojma sta pricas jer si ocito negdje u mladosti preskocio neke korake

u svakom slucaju, apsolutno si upravu. Ja vjerujem u ono sto kolege naucnici prezentuju kao fakt, zato ti i neces nikad biti naucnik. Provjeravao bi, zbog svoje paranoje, svaki eksperimebt koji dokazuje nesto da bi se sto pisto uvjerio da je to tako. Zato i jesi, tu gdje jesi. U fantazijama.

[sizifinho]

@Dozer
Mala ispravka, nas mozak ne luci THC ali upravo spomenute endokanabidoide koji u kombinaciji sa THC-om i CBD-om imaju blagodarne ucinke na nase tijelo i duh. Ta kombinacija je ustvari zasluzna za izgradnju imuniteta pa samim time drasticno usporavanje sirenja celija raka.

Mislim da grijesis.... THC aktivira receptore CB1 i CB2, a kanabinoidi koje nas mozak proizvodi aktiviraju upravo te receptore, sto znaci da nas mozak proizvodi THC.
http://phys.org/news/2007-06-cannabinoi ... ffect.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 151240.htm
Itd.

a ta izjava da mozak kuci thc...to je samo pokazatelj koliko ti povrsno sve shvatas. Jedna od najvecih gluposti do sad, oh kanabinoid kralju.

Taman kad mislim da se ne moze isfurat vise..on to uspije.

Evo velikim slovima
Dozeru, otvori clanak koji si zalijepio i nadji gdje pise da mozak luci thc. Ako to uradis izvinit cu ti se na mojoj izvali.
Nigdje.
legenda, majke mi...samo naslov procitao
garant kad mu je stari napisao ovo, Dozer se osjetio ugrozenim i ukucao na googleu " brain produces marijuana" - nasao clanak i turio ga tu.
Samo nemoj reci da je Dozer pogrijesio. Taj ne grijesi

[maraccana]

Ali kako mu ne dosadi, to je pitanje.... Kako nema trunke samopoštovanja i svijesti kada sam sebe izvaljuje čitavo vrijeme, eto opet dođosmo na psihologiju jer druge nema...

[sizifinho]

Ali kako mu ne dosadi, to je pitanje.... Kako nema trunke samopoštovanja i svijesti kada sam sebe izvaljuje čitavo vrijeme, eto opet dođosmo na psihologiju jer druge nema...

rekoh, neki korak u mladosti je preskocio

[stari_rastafari]

Slijepo vjeruju bijasnim ljudima. Da je ovaj lik napisao kako govno pluta atlantikom.u znak protesta protiv svjetskih banki - stari bi ga citirao ovdje.

Svoj ti posao a sa mnom mojne da peres usta.

Radi se o isjecku iz knjige a ne o cijeloj knjizi. Sve sto je u ovim isjeccima se moze i dokazati ako ne vjerujes podacima onda ih provjeri. Dosta stvari sam licno nasao negdje drugo mnogo prije nego sam uopste dosao na ovu knjigu.

Zanimljivo je da se recimo uopste nisi dotakao istrazivanja Zimbarda i Milgrama, koji su istiniti i desili su se, koji imaju svoju svrhu a to nije Milgramova potreba da se pomiri sa holokaustom kako se u filmu potencira. Holokaust je prica za sebe.

Zato, stipu se ti mene i komentarisi sta hoces ali mene preskoci.

[stari_rastafari]

@Dozer
Mala ispravka, nas mozak ne luci THC ali upravo spomenute endokanabidoide koji u kombinaciji sa THC-om i CBD-om imaju blagodarne ucinke na nase tijelo i duh. Ta kombinacija je ustvari zasluzna za izgradnju imuniteta pa samim time drasticno usporavanje sirenja celija raka.

Mislim da grijesis.... THC aktivira receptore CB1 i CB2, a kanabinoidi koje nas mozak proizvodi aktiviraju upravo te receptore, sto znaci da nas mozak proizvodi THC.
http://phys.org/news/2007-06-cannabinoi ... ffect.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 151240.htm
Itd.

Sasvim moguce da pogrijesim, ljudi smo, zar ne. No koliko znam nase tijelo zaista ne luci THC nego te endokanabidoide. I kao sto kaze u prvom linku iznad: "THC acts on the cannabinoid receptors, of which there are two types, CB1 and CB2. Both receptors are made such that THC can attach itself to them. In the brain this causes the intoxicating effect of hashish, cannabis and marijuana."

[sizifinho]

Slijepo vjeruju bijasnim ljudima. Da je ovaj lik napisao kako govno pluta atlantikom.u znak protesta protiv svjetskih banki - stari bi ga citirao ovdje.

Svoj ti posao a sa mnom mojne da peres usta.

Radi se o isjecku iz knjige a ne o cijeloj knjizi. Sve sto je u ovim isjeccima se moze i dokazati ako ne vjerujes podacima onda ih provjeri. Dosta stvari sam licno nasao negdje drugo mnogo prije nego sam uopste dosao na ovu knjigu.

Zanimljivo je da se recimo uopste nisi dotakao istrazivanja Zimbarda i Milgrama, koji su istiniti i desili su se, koji imaju svoju svrhu a to nije Milgramova potreba da se pomiri sa holokaustom kako se u filmu potencira. Holokaust je prica za sebe.

Zato, stipu se ti mene i komentarisi sta hoces ali mene preskoci.

Milgramovs istrazivanja se spominju u srednjoj skoli u psihologiji, tako da mislim da za njih zna svaki iole zainteresiran srednjoskolac.
Ne citas.
Kao sto sam rekao, sve sto tu pise u isječcima je opce poznato. Ne vidim kakve ima veze s tim kako smo nastali
Ponovo, offtopic.

[stari_rastafari]

Milgramovs istrazivanja se spominju u srednjoj skoli u psihologiji, tako da mislim da za njih zna svaki iole zainteresiran srednjoskolac.
Ne citas.
Kao sto sam rekao, sve sto tu pise u isječcima je opce poznato. Ne vidim kakve ima veze s tim kako smo nastali
Ponovo, offtopic.

Dakle slazes se sa detaljima u isjeccima s tim da je opce poznato?

Ima veze koliko i prica o vutri. Kakve veze ima s tim kako smo nastali sam pojasnio stranicama prije, ponavljao nekoliko puta i pomenuo jos jednom na prosloj stranici, no doci cemo opet na to, kad dodje vrijeme. Prije toga je potrebno utvrditi neke druge stvari. To je moje misljenje.

PS. Mene u gimnaziji na predmetu psiholgija nazalost nisu ucili o Milgramovim i Zimbardovim istrazivanjima i vjerovatno ih tada ne bih ni shvatio onako kako ih shvatam danas. U svakom slucaju nisam nikada cuo da se o tome ucilo u drugim srednjim skolama niti sam cuo ijednog srednjoskolca da o tome prica, a znao sam mnogo zainteresovanih srednjoskolaca za svasta nesto.

[Dozer]

Ovdje se, ocigledno, sve mora napisati do u slovo precizno jer neki nisu u stanju shvatiti nista ako to ne pise tako.... O razmisljanju o napisanom u kontekstu, suvisno je i pricati
Mada, iz mase stvari je ocigledno da ne razumiju napisano cak ni tada, kada je napisano do u milimetar tacno, nego i to prevrnu na nesto sto su samo oni shvatili.. Vec vidjeno, dokazano i potvrdjeno X puta kroz temu.

Zato ne vrijedi @Sizifu odgovarati, jer je ocito da nikada nece shvatiti, a @maraccan svojim komentarima odaje klasicnog prosjecnog adolescentnog navijaca.
Ali, zato sam siguran da ce @Stari sigurno shvatiti.
Ne, nas mozak ne luci bukvalno THC, tj. Delta 9 Tetrahidrocanabidol, nego luci protein koji ima isto dejstvo kao i THC iz marihuane.

Marijuana plant. Scientists have just shown that one of Bob Dylan's most famous lines--"everybody must get stoned"-- is correct. That's because they've discovered that the brain manufactures proteins that act like marijuana at specific receptors in the brain itself.

Ako ti proteini aktiviraju identicne receptore koje aktivira i THC iz marihuane, i ako se ti proteini ponasaju identicno kao i THC, da li tada mozemo reci da nas mozak proizvodi THC?

A ovdje se moze procitati dosta o nasem endokanabidoidnom sistemu - http://norml.org/library/item/introduct ... oid-system
Koga to zaista zanima, jasno...

[maraccana]

Prvo napiše ovo

kanabinoidi koje nas mozak proizvodi aktiviraju upravo te receptore, sto znaci da nas mozak proizvodi THC

http://forum.klix.ba/kako-nastadosmo-ni ... #p12521884

Pa onda ovo

Ne, nas mozak ne luci bukvalno THC, tj. Delta 9 Tetrahidrocanabidol, nego luci protein koji ima isto dejstvo kao i THC iz marihuane.

http://forum.klix.ba/kako-nastadosmo-ni ... #p12523399

I onda meni kaže - "@maraccan svojim komentarima odaje klasicnog prosjecnog adolescentnog navijaca."

Pa valjda se da vidjeti tu, ko je adoloscent ili psiha, nešto od to tvoje sigurno...

[stari_rastafari]

Ne, nas mozak ne luci bukvalno THC, tj. Delta 9 Tetrahidrocanabidol, nego luci protein koji ima isto dejstvo kao i THC iz marihuane.

Marijuana plant. Scientists have just shown that one of Bob Dylan's most famous lines--"everybody must get stoned"-- is correct. That's because they've discovered that the brain manufactures proteins that act like marijuana at specific receptors in the brain itself.

Ako ti proteini aktiviraju identicne receptore koje aktivira i THC iz marihuane, i ako se ti proteini ponasaju identicno kao i THC, da li tada mozemo reci da nas mozak proizvodi THC?

A ovdje se moze procitati dosta o nasem endokanabidoidnom sistemu - http://norml.org/library/item/introduct ... oid-system
Koga to zaista zanima, jasno...

Dosta sam oko toga citao prije nekog odredjenog vremena tako da je sigurno nesto izlapilo. Medjutim, po mom sjecanju, nase tijelo kao sto smo vec rekli luci te endokanabidoide koji ustvari omogucavaju aktiviranje tih receptora pri unosenju u tijelo THC-a ili CBD-a. Ukoliko bi se taj protein ponasao identicno kao THC onda bismo vazda bili high. Probam procitati taj link dok nadjem malo vremena.
Meni ustvari jedino sto je bitno kada govorimo o ganji je da je ona upotrebljiva u vise sfera pa izmedju ostalog i u medicini i to na vise nacina. To je samo jedan od razloga zasto bi se trebala totalno legalizovati i dopustiti ljudima da je konzumiraju prema licnoj potrebi. Ja da se pitam zabranio bih alkohol.
Kada uzmemo u obzir za sta se sve moze iskoristiti stablo indijske konoplje, a zabranjeno je, onda je evidentno da iza postoje razni interesi koji onemogucavaju upotrebu jedne vrlo potente biljke koja ima potencijal izmjeniti i nas nacin poimanja stvari (npr umjesto da rusimo stabla mozemo koristiti indijsku konoplju za proizvodnju papira i ostalog tariguza; zasijati cijelu Saharu konopljom i regenerisati zemlju; praviti razgradivu plastiku itd itd)

U ove neke nazovi licne razmirice ne bih ulazio, vec sam rekao svoje sta sam imao. Ali u nacelu se sa tobom slazem. Zaboga, moras ovdje biti precizan kao medicinski skalpel i bezgresan da bi na kraju neko rekao: "Ma ti si ovo ono, vakav nakav. Pises i govoris gluposti..."
Kao sto vidis u postovima iznad, sad je sve ono sto sam napisao i postavio ovdje opce poznata stvar a kada upitas neka konkretna pitanja onda se to elegantno zaobidje izrugljivim osvrtom na neku gresku i lapsus koji kao dokazuju da sve ono sto napises ne vrijedi niti pisljiva boba. Do nedavno su te opce poznate stvari bilo nazivane i lazima, glupostima itd... Ali dobro, ja i to razumijem, kao sto sam vise puta rekao ni sam do jednog odredjenog trenutka nisam uzimao u obzir ovo o cemu pisem danas. Stavise smatrao sam to nemogucim i presao se.

EDIT: Ali moram priznati da mi je zanimljivo saznanje da se Milgramova i Zimbardova istrazivanja uce na srednjim skolama. Istrazivanja o kojima se do nedavno nije govorilo u javnosti. Istrazivanja koja imaju neku sasvim drugu svrhu od one prikazane javnosti.

EDIT2: @Dozer
Procitah ovaj zadnji link i uglavnom se slaze sa onim sto sam laickim jezikom objasnio.

[maraccana]

Bilo bi dobro da se napravi kompilacija svih Dozerovih izvala, kojima nema kraja...