Alfa 147

[schakal]

Bez italijana nema auta a ti pricaj sta hoces, sto si se ti vozio u alfama starim 20 godina to je druga prica, fiatov JTD motor je jedan od najboljih na svijetu.To da Alfe puno trose je istina, ali je i istina da strasno idu.A sto se tice pouzdanosti vozim svog Fiata JTD 50000km presao je do sada 175000km bez ikakvih problema.

[Citizen-X]

Bez italijana nema auta a ti pricaj sta hoces, sto si se ti vozio u alfama starim 20 godina to je druga prica, fiatov JTD motor je jedan od najboljih na svijetu.To da Alfe puno trose je istina, ali je i istina da strasno idu.A sto se tice pouzdanosti vozim svog Fiata JTD 50000km presao je do sada 175000km bez ikakvih problema.

Nije problem, prihvatam argumentaciju ako se odnosila na mene, ali sam vozio i BMW E21 (320i) koji je bio 80 godiste, E30 (318i) koji je bio 86, E36 (324td) koji je bio 93 i 96 godiste. Ti auti su imali vrlo rijetke ili nikakve kvarove. Nije valjda da sam takav sreckovic bio.

I sto ne bih valorizirao auta koja su stara 20g? Ili 10g ili 5? Je l' se to matere ti auta, otpisuju iz kategorije auta nakon 2-3 godine starosti?

Evo ti dokaz da inzenjering moze biti dugotrajan:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FvKeOVsRSSU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pe8tS-frgP8&feature=related

Na kraju krajeva, nekoj djecjoj raspravi koje je auto ili marka ili drzava proizvodjac bolje od koje, mi ne pada na pamet da pristupam i naprdjivam.
Ne hranim svoj ego i ne bolujem za autima toliko da bih se ovdje nekom za vratove hvatao. Forum inace smatram nekim vidom druzenja i iznosenja misljenja ili ideja, a ne ispucavanja testosteronskih kompleksa vise i nize vrijednosti i djecjih svadja "moje je bolje nego tvoje".

Samo sam dokone "inzenjere" i "strucnjake" htio da obavijestim

Kome se svidja nek cita - kome ne - do'v'djenja i prijatno.

[DoradO]

Bez italijana nema auta a ti pricaj sta hoces, sto si se ti vozio u alfama starim 20 godina to je druga prica, fiatov JTD motor je jedan od najboljih na svijetu.To da Alfe puno trose je istina, ali je i istina da strasno idu.A sto se tice pouzdanosti vozim svog Fiata JTD 50000km presao je do sada 175000km bez ikakvih problema.

[schakal]

Ja samo kazem da alfa 147 nije nista losije auto od golfa ili bilo kojeg drugog auta njegove klase!

[beco]

Posto se svadate ko je bolji golf ili alfa evo statistike i za golfa
Good: Far greater feeling of genuine quality than Mk IV, decent handling, engine innovations.
Bad: Generally hard ride.
What's Good
Code name A-5 on PQ35 floorpan. Dimensions 4,204mm x 1,759mm x 1,483mm high, so bigger than Mk IV with more head and legroom inside.

Engines include 75PS 1.4, 90PS FSI 1.4 FSI, 115PS 1.6FSI, 75PS (chain cam), 1.9TDI, 140PS 2.0TDI 16v, 150PS FSI 2.0, 185PS 2.0T, 175PS V5, 240bhp 3.2 V6 and possibly a 175bhp V5 TDI. 5-speed and 6-speed manual gearboxes. Multi-link rear suspension. Launched at Frankfurt Show in autumn 2003, with RHD UK sales from February 2004. Was equal European car of the year 2004. UK on sale date 30-1-2004. 2.0FSI, higher output engines, automatics and Direct Shift Gearbox delayed until late June early July 2004.

Prices at 16-12-2003:

Golf V 1.4S 75PS 3-dr: £11,995.
Golf V 1.4S 75PS 5-dr: £12,595
Golf V 1.4S FSI 90PS 3-dr: £12,535.
Golf V 1.4S FSI 90PS 5-dr: £13,035.
Golf V 1.6S FSI 115PS 6-spd 3-dr: £13,705.
Golf V 1.6S FSI 115PS 6-spd 5-dr: £14,205.
Golf V 1.9S SDI 75PS 3-dr: £14,595.
Golf V 1.9S SDI 75PS 5-dr: £15,095.
Golf V 1.9S TDI 105PS 3-dr: £14,595.
Golf V 1.9S TDI 105PS 5-dr: £15,095.
Golf V 1.6SE FSI 115PD 6-spd 3-dr: £14,785.
Golf V 1.6SE FSI 115PD 6-spd 5-dr: £15,285.
Golf V 1.9SE TDI 105PS 3-dr: £15,680.
Golf V 1.9SE TDI 105PS 5-dr: £15,680.
Golf V 2.0FSI 150PS 6-spd 3-dr: VW TBA.
Golf V 2.0GT TDI 140PS 6-spd 3-dr: £18,030.
Golf V 2.0GT TDI 140PS 6-spd 5-dr: £18,530.

5 Star NCAP occupant safety rating and 3 Stars for pedestrian safety.

Road test Golf range at http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=109

New GTI in UK from January 2005. Has 2.0 litre 200PS direct injected petrol engine taking it 0-60 in 7 seconds and on to a top speed of 147. Torque of 207 lb ft produced on flat curve from 1,800 - 5,000rpm. 17" or 18" wheels. DSG box available. 3 or 5 doors. List price from £19,995 and from £21,320 for DSG. Buyers can customise a car to their own spec when ordering. Was a dedicated website: http://www.newgolfgti.co.uk Customers can configure their own vehicle, which is then given a Unique Reference Number (URN). This can then be printed off and taken to their nearest Volkswagen retailer where the order is processed. Gof V GTi named Top Gear Car of the Year. 4-Motion versions from February 2005. 150PS FSI 4-Motion 5-dr £19,450. 140PS TDI 4-Motion 5-dr £19,780.

Specification changes and price cuts from 23-4-2005:

Golf S models now have climatic air conditioning as standard. Golf SEs 5-drs gain rear electric windows and a convenience pack of see you home home lighting with automatic headlights on; automatic dimming rear view mirror; rain sensor; and front footwell illumination. Golf GT FSI/TDI gets Climatic semi-automatic air conditioning fitted instead of Climatronic.

S 3 door 1.4 ltr 5 speed manual 75ps £11,845.00
S 5 door 1.4 ltr 5 speed manual 75ps £12,345.00
S FSI 3 door 1.4 ltr 5 speed manual 90ps £12,540.00
S FSI 5 door 1.4 ltr 5 speed manual 90ps £13,040.00
S FSI 3 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed manual 115ps £13,710.00
S FSI 5 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed manual 115ps £14,210.00
S FSI 5 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed auto 115 ps £15,535.00
S SDI 3 door 2.0 ltr 5 speed manual 75ps £12,490.00
S SDI 5 door 2.0 ltr 5 speed manual 75ps £12,990.00
S TDI 3 door 1.9 ltr 5 speed manual 105ps £14,600.00
S TDI 5 door 1.9 ltr 5 speed manual 105ps £15,100.00
SE FSI 3 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed manual 115ps £14,630.00
SE FSI 5 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed manual 115ps £15,130.00
SE FSI 5 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed auto 115ps £16,455.00
SE TDI 3 door 1.9 ltr 5 speed manual 105ps £15,525.00
SE TDI 5 door 1.9 ltr 5 speed manual 105ps £16,025.00
SE TDI 5 door 1.9 ltr 6 speed auto DSG 105ps £17,505.00
Sport FSI 3 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed manual 115ps £14,900.00
Sport FSI 5 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed manual 115ps £15,400.00
Sport FSI 5 door 1.6 ltr 6 speed auto 115ps £16,750.00
Sport TDI 3 door 1.9 ltr 6 speed manual 105ps £15,785.00
Sport TDI 5 door 1.9 ltr 6 speed manual 105ps £16,285.00
Sport TDI 5 door 1.9 ltr 6 speed auto DSG 105ps £17,630.00
GT FSI 3 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 150ps £16,995.00
GT FSI 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 150ps £17,495.00
GT FSI 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed auto 150ps £18,820.00
GT FSI 4MOTION 3 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 150ps £18,045.00
GT FSI 4MOTION 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 150ps £18,545.00
GT TDI 3 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 140ps £17,320.00
GT TDI 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 140ps £17,820.00
GT TDI 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed auto DSG 140ps £19,145.00
GT TDI 4MOTION 3 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 140ps £18,370.00
GT TDI 4MOTION 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 140ps £18,870.00
GTI 2.0T 3 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 200ps £19,995.00
GTI 2.0T 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed manual 200ps £20,495.00
GTI 2.0T 3 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed auto DSG 200ps £21,325.00
GTI 2.0T 5 door 2.0 ltr 6 speed auto DSG 200ps £21,825.00

New engines from summer 2006 include supercharged/turbocharged CHAIN CAM 140PS 1.4 TSI petrol, supercharged/turbocharged 170PS TSI petrol and 170PS 2.0 TDI PD. TSI 170 manual geared 25mph/1,000rpm in 6th and drives very well with up to 40mpg economy. TSI 170 DSG geared 30mph/1,000rpm in 6th and not so good. TDI PD 170 gruff with mismatched gear ratios. Not very pleasant to drive. Prices TSI 140 from £15,995, 39.2mpg combines, 169g/km CO2. TSI 170 from £18,095, 38.2mpg, 175g/km. The turbo is watercooled and the cooling continues after you switch off, so no need to idle a hot turbo. 1.4 TSI developed up to 240PS and won the 1.0 to 1.4 International Engine of the Year category 2006 and 2007.

September 2006, SE replaced by Match at £380 less. Has SE spec plus 15" Canberra Alloys, body coloured bumpers, side strips and door handles, leather trim steering wheel and gear knob and hand brake grip, front centre armrest
MFSW and a MP3 connector. From £14,995, but heavily discounted via brokers.

October 2006: Limited Edition of 1,500 Golf GTI Edition 30 with 230PS 2.0TFSI engine and 6-speed manual or DSG. 0-60 in 6.3 seconds with DSG, 6.5 seconds with manual. 150mph top. Body-coloured side skirts, new chin spoiler and body-coloured rear bumper. 18" ‘Pescara’ alloys. Golf ball gearknob. Deliveries from January 2007. £22,000 for 3-dr and £22,500 for 5-dr. DSG adds £1,330. Very quick. Works well with DSG.

SEVEN-SPEED DSG

Volkswagen has developed an evolution of its pioneering DSG gearbox. The new seven-speed system – a world first and codenamed DQ200 – uses a pair of dry clutches in preference to the six-speed version’s twin wet clutches. This increases efficiency and performance over the wet clutch six-speed system.

The six-speed DSG gearbox, introduced in 2003, uses a pair of clutches submerged in oil. The new seven-speed gearbox adopts a pair of dry, organic bonded friction linings that do not require cooling, making the drivetrain more efficient through the extra ratio and the fact that less power is required for the gear selection and clutch servo system.

Measuring only 369 mm in length and weighing only 79 kg including the dual-mass flywheel the gearbox is remarkably compact. These modest proportions mean it can be applied to models from the Polo right up to the Passat and, in its current form, it is capable of coping with power outputs of up to 170 PS and 184 lbs ft of torque.

In adopting seven-speeds, Volkswagen engineers were able to lower first gear to improve acceleration from a standstill. By contrast seventh gear has been raised to act as an overdrive function making it ideal for motorway driving with the additional effect of raising economy and comfort levels.

The volume of oil contained within the gearbox has also been reduced by 75 per cent. The oil circuits are split into two in an effort to protect the lubrication’s purity. As with a conventional manual gearbox, one of the circuits is used for cooling and lubrication of the gear teeth, the second feeds oil to the gear actuators. Since the clutch does not require cooling the quantity of oil was reduced from seven litres in the six-speed DSG gearbox to only 1.7-litres in the new seven-speed system.

Production of the gearbox started at the end of the 2007 with its first application in the UK in the Golf and mated to the 1.4-litre TSI petrol and 1.9-litre TDI diesel engines.

25-5-2007 Golf GT Sport replaced both Sport and GT. Darkened grille section intersected by horizontal fins and darkened headlights which visually separate the lenses into four, individual units. 17-inch multi-spoke ClassiXs alloys with 225/45 R17 tyres. Twin chrome exhausts on 170 PS. Leather-trimmed three-spoke
steering wheel, gearknob and handbrake, front sports seats, automatic light sensing headlights and rain sensing wipers. Climatic air conditioning, CD stereo with eight speakers and electric windows. Six airbags, ABS and ESP. 1.4-litre TSI petrol engines with 140PS or 170 PS, or 2.0 170PS TDI. Six-speed manual or DSG transmissions, three or five doors. Deliveries from summer 2007. From £17,422 for three-door with 1.4-litre TSI 140 PS engine, rising to £21,352 for five-door with the 2.0-litre TDI 170 PS engine with DSG transmission.

Launched Frankfurt Show September 2007 Golf BlueMotion offering 62.8 mpg (4.5 l/100 km) fuel consumption and 119 g/km CO2. 1.9 TDI engine with 77 kW / 105 PS and 250 Nm (184 lbs ft) of torque. Software in engine management reduces the idling speed combined with a particulate filter and simultaneously improves its emission performance. With longer gear ratios in third, fourth and fifth gears, engine speed levels are also lower while driving. Trimmed and flow-optimized underbody as well as nearly enclosed radiator grille. To ensure that the TDI engine still gets enough cooling air, the Golf BlueMotion has an effective dual fan. cW improved to 0.30. Light-running tyres, size 195/65 R15, optimized for rolling resistance and driven at higher air pressure. Top speed electronically limited 190 km/h (118 mph).

From late 2007 Volkswagen replaced its 1.6-litre FSI petrol engine with a new
CHAIN CAM 1.4 TSI fitted only with a turbochrger (like FIAT's) rather than both turbocharger and supercharger. Power is 122PS and torque 200 Nm (155 lbs ft) delivered from 1,500 to 3,500 rpm. Choice of 6-speed manual or new 7-speed DSG transmissions. Combined consumption of Golf 44.8 mpg for the new 1.4-litre TSI.
C02 down to to 149 g/km (139g/km with 7-spd DSG ). Production of the DSG
from the beginning of 2008, while manual models available to order from late October 2007.

Golf S 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 3dr 149g/km £14,152
Golf S 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 5dr 149g/km £14,652
Golf S 1.4-litre TSI 7 spd DSG 5dr 139g/km £15,982
Golf Match 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 5dr 149g/km £15,287
Golf Match 1.4-litre TSI 7 spd DSG 5dr 139g/km £16,617

Golf Plus Luna 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 5dr 157g/km £15,302
Golf Plus Luna 1.4-litre TSI 7 spd DSG 5dr 149g/km £16,607
Golf Plus SE 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 5dr 157g/km £16,147
Golf Plus SE 1.4-litre TSI 7 spd DSG 5dr 149g/km £17,452

Jetta S 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 153g/km £14,952
Jetta SE 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 153g/km £15,942

Eos 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 159g/km £19,847

Passat Saloon S 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 157g/km £15,672
Passat Estate S 1.4-litre TSI 6 spd manual 159g/km £16,792

For cars with satnav, Trafficmaster subscription included as from Week 45 2007 build.

TUV 2008 Report for cars 2 - 3 year old. After analysing seven million main inspections from 194 different models for over 160 criteria – including lights, brakes, chassis, exhaust and oil-loss – Coming in third and fourth were the VW Golf and Ford Fusion (2.2 percent each), and the Honda Jazz (2.3 percent).

Golf TDI Hybrid Geneva March 2008. Volkswagen engineers rose to the challenge of creating a viable, highly-efficient family vehicle capable of emitting less than 90 g/km of CO2 by creating the Golf TDI Hybrid concept, a car which combines an advanced 1.2-litre 75 PS diesel engine with an electric motor and the very latest generation of seven-speed DSG gearbox. It is capable of achieving 83 mpg on the combined cycle and emits just 89 g/km of CO2 – while around town the vehicle reverts to purely electric mode to be emission-free.

More at http://www.volkswagen.co.uk

Last Updated 22-4-2008

What's Bad
Launch of FSIs delayed in the UK because they depend on petrol which is almost 100% sulphur-free (less than 10 parts per million).

Detail problems: Headlight light sensors over sensitive; wiper rain sensors over sensitive; individual climate controls may not work properly; rattles and squeaks from trim; red door reflectors have replaced lights and they fall off. Rain sensing wipers tend to over-react. Steering wheel paddle shifts were originally a cool £515 extra for the GTi DSG, but standard for 2006MY cars from about July 2005.

GTI Edition 30 seat bolsters force shorter drivers into a round-shouldered posture.

Further warranty bproblems suffered by Stuart Bates on a Mk V less than 3 years old: ignition coil failures, radio that randomly switching on, door seals hanging off (all four replaced by dealer), radiator fans failing and being replaced, second radio/CD player failing, this time refusing to eject CDs and then randomly switching off.

Severe shortage of 1.4 TSI 120s by February 2008.

(Golf V BEING REPLACED BY CHEAPER TO BUILD MK VI in 2008/09)
What to Watch Out For
Dealer-set remote locking option of one press opens all doors or one press opens drivers door only and two presses opens all doors.

Plastic timing belt tensioners of 1.4 16v engines now failing regularly, though fortunately the belts are rarely flung off when this happens. Steering rack problems reported. Rear light lenses letting in moisture and fogging over. Reports of "grinding noise from steering rack" when turning left, not cured by replacing rack. On 1.9 TDI 105s both a clutch release bearing fault and a hesitation on running fault with no cure available from VW at 10-10-06.

FSIs are proving to be petrol sensitive. Best run on 99 Ron Shell V-Power Super.

More coils failures usually indicated by the emissions (lambda) light on the dash.

Battery drain caused by radio. If you don't leave a CD in the player, then it randomly thinks you've inserted one, then decides you haven't, and then switches the radio on. You then find the car in the morning either with with the radio blaring! or the battery flat.

One report in June 2007 of a TDI PD 170 running on its sump oil after having been overfilled. So check when cold on a flat surface and be very careful not to overfill.

On all PD diesel engines, if engine lube oil appears to rise, the reason may be that the injectors are leaking fuel oil into the bores. Very important to get this fixed or engine may start running on its lube oil and need to be stalled against the brakes or choked of air to stop. Alternatively it may be the 'Tandem pump" that is at fault
and has been leaking diesel into the engine. See Recalls below.

Many niggly faults on delivery. One reader's story:-

"I bought a VW Golf Mark 5 in December 2004. When I went to collect the car, the doors didn't fit properly, nor did they close properly either. There were a few other little things, but the doors were the main problem. The dealership, said that they would take the car in and try to fix it. After 3 days, the car came back and the doors were still massively out of alignment. The VW garage, said they would get me another car."

"In March, the new one came. Initially, there was a problem with the centre console cover, which was badly marked. I pointed this out to the salesman, who offered to replace the part, straight away, with a second hand part out of another car. I refused and waited three weeks for a new part."

"Then the Alarm failed, due to a faulty siren. This was fixed, however a week after it being fixed, a new fault appeared. Every time I went over a bump, the was a vibration and rattle, which progressively got worse. This took 5 times in the garage to find, and it was diagnosed as a faulty bracket behind the dashboard, which had incorrectly fitted during manufacture. Whilst it was in the garage, they also found that the CV joint was leaking grease heavily and had to be replaced."

"About a month ago, during the good weather, I noticed some discoloration in the paintwork on the passenger door. It was like the black, was slightly grey. I thought it was dirt, but polishing and washing has had no effect. It is only noticeable, when the sunlight is on the car."

"About two weeks ago, the alarm failed again. It has been diagnosed as the Alarm siren again. This was the last straw. I have gone back to VW to demand my money back. I paid £17,000 for the car and I am absolutely fed up with it and I have no confidence in the car. Its fine to drive, but it keeps going wrong."

"Now, there appears to be a squeak in the front suspension as well, when I go over a speed hump."

Some 2007 build cars with 6-speed boxes suffered from a planetary gear fault due to incorrect assembly. Cars fixed quickly by TSB when in dealers for servicing or other problems.

Door seal failures seem to be a common problem.

Aircon compressors and condensors can fail early (under warranty) on 2.0 T 200 GTIs.

Quite a lot of turbo oil seal failures soon after the 3 year warranty expires. Cost of new turbo, intercooler and exhaust manifold £2,700. So best to buy an extended warranty that covers you for this before the manufacturer warranty ends.
Recalls
3-3-05 on LUPO,POLO,GOLF,BORA, TOURAN,NEW BEETLE,PASSAT AND SHARAN (WITH 2 PUMP INJECTOR ENGINE) built 1-3-04 to 31-8-04 bolts on tandem fuel pump may break.

[redondo72]

Ma kakav golf... znaš kako se kaže, ko nema za Ferrarija vozi Alfu.
Uostalom, na plin se kuva, na dizel greje a na benzin vozi.

[dr.iver]

Ja samo kazem da alfa 147 nije nista losije auto od golfa ili bilo kojeg drugog auta njegove klase!

naravno da nije, kakav crni golf

alfa je u premium segmentu te klase, u rangu sa audijem 3

[redondo72]

Najbolja reklama je za Alfinu novu Breru ( i po meni najlepši automobil ). Dok se drugi utrkuju da ismeju konkurenciju, da pokažu kako je njihov automobil najbolja ponuda, da na svakom koraku provuku brand name... Alfina Reklama za Breru... nema ništa od navedenog. Ima samo.... Brera... i to je dovoljno.

[fastmf]

Ma Alfa Romeo i inace talijanska auta su - "okolo kalaj, unutra belaj".

Jebo ti "cuore sportivo" kad je vise u "boxu" nego u voznji.

147 je ljepota svih ljepota. Moram priznati.

S druge strane dokazano su nekvalitetni auti i nadaleko poznati italijanski slamperaj moze neko nijekati, govoriti ma nije to tako.
Medjutim to je tako. Koliko god to nijece, statistike su porazavajuce.

Cinjenica je da su to rastrosni auti cak i sa malom kubikazom (1.6 npr - govoreci o benzincu) trose iznad 10L bez ikakvog problema.
Cinjenica jest da su ti motorcici i motori "navijeni" ali - u dosta slucaja nekvalitetni inzenjerski.

Tu se baš i nebih složio s tobom...
A potrošnja jednog serijskog vozila 1,6 ccm i sa varijabilnim sistemom otvaranja usisa i sa 120 KS doista je opravdana ...
Hoću reći još ga nisu napravili da ide i da ne troši

I BMW radi "cuore sportivo" ali izdrzi vise stotina hilj. km bez vecih problema.

Vozne karakteristike?
Ergonomija?
Ja baš i nisam za varijantu stotine hiljada km u kovčegu bez stila

Nije to baš tako (bez nekih većih problema) pogotovo serije 5 1999- 2,8ccm ...

Najbolji od tih motora je bas taj nastariji 1.7 Boxer sa cca 115 KS. Boxer tehnologija je inace vrlo pouzdana sto je na VW Bubi dokazano a pogotovo u Subaruu koji ne odustaje od iste desetljecima.

E baš taj odnosno boxer 16v sa 129,9 KS ne samo da je mrljavio nego i samo upravljanje u njemu nikako nije davalo dojam
lakoće u vožnji... vjere u zavojima svojstvene za ALFA ROMEO osim zvuka nisam baš doživljavao neku exoticu
u vw bubi boxer, a i sam taj auto je konstruktorski jedno veliko smeće nemožeš staviti u koš sa Subaru-ovim tehnološkim baukom iako i ti njihovi prvi 2,0Turbo su pretrpili prepravke silnih natezača zubčastog remena itd itd ..

[fastmf]

Bez italijana nema auta a ti pricaj sta hoces, sto si se ti vozio u alfama starim 20 godina to je druga prica, fiatov JTD motor je jedan od najboljih na svijetu.To da Alfe puno trose je istina, ali je i istina da strasno idu.A sto se tice pouzdanosti vozim svog Fiata JTD 50000km presao je do sada 175000km bez ikakvih problema.

Nije problem, prihvatam argumentaciju ako se odnosila na mene, ali sam vozio i BMW E21 (320i) koji je bio 80 godiste, E30 (318i) koji je bio 86, E36 (324td) koji je bio 93 i 96 godiste. Ti auti su imali vrlo rijetke ili nikakve kvarove. Nije valjda da sam takav sreckovic bio.

I sto ne bih valorizirao auta koja su stara 20g? Ili 10g ili 5? Je l' se to matere ti auta, otpisuju iz kategorije auta nakon 2-3 godine starosti?

s obzirom da si veoma obavješten i ptokovan i mudro zboriš istina kad pričamo o ovoj sferi nije valjda da neznaš za veliku krizu u italijanskoj auto industriji u drugoj polovini 80-ih pa sve do stvaranja koncerna i mukotrpnog rada na oživljavanju duha ....

Na kraju krajeva, nekoj djecjoj raspravi koje je auto ili marka ili drzava proizvodjac bolje od koje, mi ne pada na pamet da pristupam i naprdjivam.
Ne hranim svoj ego i ne bolujem za autima toliko da bih se ovdje nekom za vratove hvatao. Forum inace smatram nekim vidom druzenja i iznosenja misljenja ili ideja, a ne ispucavanja testosteronskih kompleksa vise i nize vrijednosti i djecjih svadja "moje je bolje nego tvoje".

Samo sam dokone "inzenjere" i "strucnjake" htio da obavijestim

Kome se svidja nek cita - kome ne - do'v'djenja i prijatno.

Na ovome svaka čast

[Citizen-X]

E baš taj odnosno boxer 16v sa 129,9 KS ne samo da je mrljavio nego i samo upravljanje u njemu nikako nije davalo dojam
lakoće u vožnji... vjere u zavojima svojstvene za ALFA ROMEO osim zvuka nisam baš doživljavao neku exoticu
u vw bubi boxer, a i sam taj auto je konstruktorski jedno veliko smeće nemožeš staviti u koš sa Subaru-ovim tehnološkim baukom iako i ti njihovi prvi 2,0Turbo su pretrpili prepravke silnih natezača zubčastog remena itd itd ..

Nije to bio taj '91 motor iz 33B, nego masina 117KS iz '87. 8-ventilska. 33A . Motor plah, zvijer za tezinu koju je vukao - skoro manje od tone, lezanje super ali je potrosnja bila strahobalna.
Sto se tice "bube" mislim da je smijesno reci da to auto nije bilo trajno i po imidzu i po kvaliteti. Pricam o autu koje je se proizvodilo vise desetljeca u skoro istom izdanju. To ipak - nesto znaci - jer - se i prodavalo - sirom svijeta. Ja o kvaliteti uratka pricam.

A ako iole si upoznat za mehanikom, barem amaterski, priznaces da "razvlacenje" remena u bloku koji je konfigurisan 180° i nije bas sretno rjesenje, ali je sam motor, uz pretpostavku da je sve konstruisano kako treba, kvalitetno rjesenje jer klipovi malte ne, plivaju u ulju skoro i bez potrebe za uljnom pumpom.
O voznim karakteristikama takve konfiguracije bi se mogli pisati eseji, ali je cinjenica da motor "stoji na podu".

[Citizen-X]

I BMW radi "cuore sportivo" ali izdrzi vise stotina hilj. km bez vecih problema.

Vozne karakteristike?
Ergonomija?

Ja baš i nisam za varijantu stotine hiljada km u kovčegu bez stila

Nije to baš tako (bez nekih većih problema) pogotovo serije 5 1999- 2,8ccm ..

Pricam o "coure sportivu" - motoru. Bez naglasa na vozne karaktersitike, stabilnost i slicno.

[dr.iver]

cuore sportivo nije motor
i u fici motor iz yuge 45 cini cuda, ali nije pracen ostatkom....

stoga je cuore sportivo cjelokupan paket, od izgleda, lezanja, pa do motora...a to alfa radi najbolje od svih

a sto trosi jebi ga, nije seks ako ne udje

[Citizen-X]

cuore sportivo nije motor
i u fici motor iz yuge 45 cini cuda, ali nije pracen ostatkom....

stoga je cuore sportivo cjelokupan paket, od izgleda, lezanja, pa do motora...a to alfa radi najbolje od svih

a sto trosi jebi ga, nije seks ako ne udje

Ne znam zaista sta ti je toliko smijesno? Mase ti neko prstom puno?
Srce u covjeka nije tijelo pod broj jedan, zna se sta je srce.
BTW motorom od juge neces puno dati fici.

Izgled nisam nikad ni osporavao Alfa Romeu osim mozda od preruzne od Guiliette pa do pojave 145.

Ja zaista, za svog zivota, ne pamtim sportske uspjehe Alfa Romea da bi ga se moglo svrstati u kvalifikaciju "uber alles".
Totalna blasfhemija. Mozda je jedino GTA uspjela nesto napraviti u GT kupu. Ali nista vise ni dalje od toga.

Dok se recimo za Lanciu moze navesti fantastican niz pobjeda na rallyjima, sampion svijeta. Lancia Delta HF Integrale je mitolosko auto, znas? Znas zasto? Zato sto je Lancia Delta imala strasno odmjeren dizajn, izgled, motor kao i konfiguraciju za pobjede. Zasto opet? Zato sto su dosta tehnologije posudjivali od Ferrarija - sportskog "srceta" Fiat-a S.P.A.

Medjutim, a kako drugacije nego na talijanski nacin, Lancia nije uspjela okruniti svoj sportski uspjeh ekonomskim, kao sto su to uradili npr Mitsubishi sa Lancerom u evo 10 generacija, Subaru sa Imprezom u evo vise od 10g. a nigdje ga ne potpisuju "cuore sportivo" - jer to je "cuore nepoderivo" i zna se dobro sta znaci kad vidis Subaru Imprezu (aaa to je ono relijasko auto), ili Lancera, ili pak Audi Quattro - pa je Audi izgradio imidz, Haldex, DSG na bazi Quattro pogona dobro ga iskoristivsi iz trkace opcije u komercijalne svrhe obicnom kupcu ponudivsi najbolja rjesenja koja je oprobao.

Da odem jos malo off topic, japanci su tu otisli najdalje htio to neko priznat ili ne, pa su godinu dvije nakon postavljanja VTEC sistema u McLaren Hondu, prenijeli isti u "civilne" pa je onda masovno pocelo uvodjenje "dual rezima" rada motora.
Ponudili su ljudima smrtnicima trkace (najbolje) rjesenje, isto kao sto su to uradili i rade u Kawasakiju, Yamahi itd. gdje je vrlo mala razlika izmedju trkace i komercijalne tehnologije. Naravno da ces ostaviti nesto "na mastu" i "razmisljanje" konkurenciji.

To je to kralju - a ja opet kazem - Alfa 147 je jedno prelijepo umjetnicko dostignuce, Walter Da Silva je odradio fantastican pos'o dobro komercijalizirajuci dizajn 156-ice, a Brera je sa 156-icom koja je bila musicava, Alfin (moguci) uzlet u nova i bolja vremena.

[dr.iver]

paralela covjek-auto ne stoji

dao sam obrazlozenje o cuore sportivo

sa motorom od yuge 45 u fici dobices dosta jer je fico lagan pa ide kao zvijer, uz odgovarajuci mjenjac iznenadice mnogobrojne gradske trakce na semaforu

nisi gledao DTM? alfa 155 v6? kasnije i 156, dok su imali podrsku same alfe...

Lancia je od Ferrarija posudila samo motor u Tehmi 8.32., ostalo je razvijeno u Abarthu...

hocemo jos pricati?

Brera i druge najnovije alfe su preskupe, nadam se da ce im se to isplatiti....

[Citizen-X]

paralela covjek-auto ne stoji

dao sam obrazlozenje o cuore sportivo

sa motorom od yuge 45 u fici dobices dosta jer je fico lagan pa ide kao zvijer, uz odgovarajuci mjenjac iznenadice mnogobrojne gradske trakce na semaforu

nisi gledao DTM? alfa 155 v6? kasnije i 156, dok su imali podrsku same alfe...

Lancia je od Ferrarija posudila samo motor u Tehmi 8.32., ostalo je razvijeno u Abarthu...

hocemo jos pricati?

Brera i druge najnovije alfe su preskupe, nadam se da ce im se to isplatiti....

Ja ti ne vidim nikakve price u ovome, samo tezu supljakanu i nadjacavanje - sto se mene tice argumentir'o sam ti dovoljno i jasno.

Meni se ne da, niti ima smisla naduravat' s tobom ili bilo kim - argumentacije - smijesne, o necemu o cem nema smisla.

Objasnio sam ti kako stoje stvari u automobilizmu, u ekonomiji, kvaliteti, Alfa Romeu,moje misljenje o AR-u....

Ti sto se mene tice gradi alfa romeu spomenik, medjutim, za neke ljude izgleda je objasniti operacija bez granica, pogledaj uokolo i vidi kakav je pecat ostavila ta marka u svijetu auta apsolutno nikakav ili beznacajan.
To auto kupuju samo entuzijasti koji imaju nerava i love da to gotive - do nekad.

Ovo za jugu i ficu ti je lolcina - burazeru, a evo i argumentiram:
fico i jugo su u pet deka po performansama , maksimalna brzina fice cca 110km/h, yuge 45 135 km/h
tezina fice cca 610kg, tezina yuge 45 cca 740.

Ti bi od fice pravio "zvijer" sa yuginim motorom Hajd da je Hayabusin pa i nekako

Nego ja sam svoje rekao i ispricao bato - pa pa od mene s ove floskula-teme.

[johntra]

ne vidim fakat razlog za prepucavanje oko naziva Coure sportivo, kad to ni Citizen, ni peti, ni deseti neće nikad promijeniti i taj naziv će ostati za vijeke vijekova...to je fakat...
druga stvar, Citizen nam kaže da Alfa nikad nije imala većih sportskih uspjeha, što je također besmislica, obrazložiću i to, nije problem...
treća stvar, Lancia Delta nije napravila ekonomski uspjeh, mada je tako zamišljena, ali nije ni čitava kompanija...ali nešto ne vidim da je Mitsu od toga omastio brkove, kad i ta kompanija zadnjih 10 godina minimum, grca u dugovima...a to se taman nekako poklapa sa zadnjim pobjedama u WRC-u...džaba im sve evolucije...
četvrta stvar, isprazna priča o Japancima koji se vole vrtiti u crvenom, a imaju obrtni momenat ko Vespa, nas na ovoj temi stvarno ne zanima...na kraju krajeva, zna se od koga su pokupili znanje...

[ado-šampion]

ne vidim fakat razlog za prepucavanje oko naziva Coure sportivo, kad to ni Citizen, ni peti, ni deseti neće nikad promijeniti i taj naziv će ostati za vijeke vijekova...to je fakat...
druga stvar, Citizen nam kaže da Alfa nikad nije imala većih sportskih uspjeha, što je također besmislica, obrazložiću i to, nije problem...
treća stvar, Lancia Delta nije napravila ekonomski uspjeh, mada je tako zamišljena, ali nije ni čitava kompanija...ali nešto ne vidim da je Mitsu od toga omastio brkove, kad i ta kompanija zadnjih 10 godina minimum, grca u dugovima...a to se taman nekako poklapa sa zadnjim pobjedama u WRC-u...džaba im sve evolucije...
četvrta stvar, isprazna priča o Japancima koji se vole vrtiti u crvenom, a imaju obrtni momenat ko Vespa, nas na ovoj temi stvarno ne zanima...na kraju krajeva, zna se od koga su pokupili znanje...

Hehe, baš si interesantan. Čak te ne zanima ni priča o kompaktnoj limuzini koja od 0-60 mph ubrzava za 3,5 sekunde?!

Pogledaj ovo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ZWJjC6 ... re=related

Kad ovo neka Alfa bude mogla, a tu ubrajam i 8C Competizione, za čiju cijenu se mogu kupiti tri ovakva Lancera, javi mi da te vodim na pečenje.

Inače kad se na ovom forumu priča o talijanskim autima nedostaje realnosti. I to od koga su japanci pokupili znaje, od talijana nisu sigurno, a općepoznato je da su japanci u svojim počecima i u auto-industriji i u elektronici i u svemu drugom sve krali od drugih da bi na kraju postali bolji od njih. Tako je Toyota danas najjača auto-kompanija, Sony je najjači elektronički div ... Lexus LS je po mnogima najbolje auto na svijetu (izuzimajući ekskluzivne marke) a prije 15-ak godina su milimetarski kopirali S-klasu ...

[schakal]

Ovdje se svaka tema svodi na to gdje se prave najbolja auta!Covjek je pitao da li je alfa 147 dobro auto i ja mislim da jeste.A sto se tice ubrzanja od 0-100 to nije najbitnije, ferrariju F430 F1 treba do 100kmh 4s a Lancer mu u trci nebi mogao ni prismrditi.e ovo je auto samo da jos dodje do ceste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q4Q5n72iDE

[dr.iver]

mnogo je neznalica na ovom podforumu i koriste odsustvo ikakve moderacije. toliko.
i smijesno je pitati ovdje bila sta ozbiljno.

[Bobi]

Kakve ba moderacije...nema shanse da vam se petljam u raspravu ...toliko nebuloza na jednom mjestu ...uzitak pravi .

[ado-šampion]

Ovdje se svaka tema svodi na to gdje se prave najbolja auta!Covjek je pitao da li je alfa 147 dobro auto i ja mislim da jeste.A sto se tice ubrzanja od 0-100 to nije najbitnije, ferrariju F430 F1 treba do 100kmh 4s a Lancer mu u trci nebi mogao ni prismrditi.e ovo je auto samo da jos dodje do ceste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q4Q5n72iDE

Nisi razumio šta sam htio da kažem. Pošto je Johntra rekao da japanci nisu relevantni, htio sam da pokažem koliko brz i ozbiljan sportaš može biti jedna japanska KOMPAKTNA limuzina. Zato sam i stavio taj klip gdje profesionalni vozač utrka sa (preteškim) Murcielagom na stazi ne može odmaći novinaru u Lanceru. Tebi je glupo poređenje (nemoj se uvrijedit) jer je s jedne strane kompaktni auto a s druge strane čisto sportski Ferrari, koji je za većinu najplaćenijih automobilskih novinara (Tiff Needel, Jeremy Clarkson...) najbolji sportski auto na svijetu.
Ovdje nije poenta koje je najbolje auto, nego su poenta toliki nerealni hvalospjevi o Alfi i u isto vrijeme blaćenje drugih auta.

[johntra]

joj kako si me pobio sa ovim klipom, još se tresem...ccc, našao mi postavljati klipove automobila, koji mi izazivaju emocije isto kao da sam vidio najnoviji Končarov šporet
nemaš ti pojma, onako iskreno...voziš štokrlicu i sjekirom dizajnirano auto, pa kontaš nema dalje od zemlje izlazećeg sunca...
zna se od koga su Japanci naučili tehnologiju izvlačenja mase konja iz malo kubikaže i čije su automobile pomno rastavljali do u šaraf, krajem sedamdesetih...prema tome nemoj šupljirat bezveze...znaš li gdje se nalazi najveći fan klub Lancie Delte???
imaš samo jedan pokušaj da pogodiš odgovor...
čovjek je pitao za auto sa početka ovog vijeka, a razni stručnjaci su krenuli u pobijanje odličnih tehnoloških rješenja iz osamdesetih godina...neko će naići i pročitati, vidi fakat su ova auta smetlje...
do tada ti uživaj u svom Lanceru od tri i pol sekunde, koji uopšte nije velikoserijsko auto, nego su na njegovom razvoju radile ČAK četiri kuće, što tunerske, što sportske...nema dalje, oca mi....

[ado-šampion]

Ima dalje od zemlje izlazećeg sunca ... Minhen.
Meni je dovoljno da mu nijedna Alfa ne može prismrdit u trku, nema boljih emocija
Izlizao ti se taj Končar šporet, moraš pronaći nešto novo, a i argumenti su ti za 10, čim kudiš japanska auta jedina što znaš je da ti "izazivaju emocija ko Končar šporet". Mora da ti talijani daju pare, dok ih toliko braniš.

[madner]

Koncarov sporet, ali zahrdo i nikad ociscen nakon 20 godina koristenja.

Opel je imao sportsku limuzinu 1990, ali nije se prodavala. Pravit se da je to nesto posebno...