Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
- cenecimoveocino
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#27 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Odes na PMF I kazes ovo nekom doktoru iz matematika I tjt.
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Chagalj
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#28 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
jeli omjer zlatnog reza se uzima sa 3 decimale, 1.618 ? DApaljevina wrote: Fi je iracionalan broj jer mu decimale idu u beskonačnost? Pa i broju 6.87345673214321432143214.... decimale idu u beskonačnost, a nije iracionalan broj. Vidi čuda.
Ne uzima se nikakav "omjer", nego aproksimacija, odnosno broj dovoljno sličan broju fi da to nama iz ljudske perspektive može služiti kao referentna tačka za fi. Ovaj tvoj je zlatni rez navodno dobio usporedbom ovog i onog cijelog broja, što uopće nije moguće o kojim god da se cijelim brojevima radilo.
jeli dobijemo 1.618..tri decimale iste kao u zlatnom rezu nakon sto podijelimo neponavljajuce cifre sa ponavljajucim ciframa? DA
pa u cemu je onda problem pobogu si???
Ono što znam o arapskom jest da je njegova fonologija i morfologija, kao i leksikologija dovoljno "elastična" da se ovim rezultatima vrlo lako može manipulirati. Štoviše, sam pojam "slova" (a da ne govorim "riječi") je vrlo lebdeći kod Arapa, jer neke vokale uopće ne pišu, tj. ne računaju kao slova, nego samo kao oznake. Da ne govorim o tome da muslimani nisu saglasni oko toga ako da broje ajete (postoje različite metodologije, pa se broj od 6 236 ne može uzeti kao univerzalan, ovisi od tradicije do tradicije).
nemoze se meni manipulirati zato sto sam licno prebrojavao sa Kuranskim pretrazivacem Corpus Quran koji ima na internetu
niko ne racuna vokale jer se nepisu, tako da ti to nepije vode, arapi pisu sa konsonantima i Kuran je pisam konsonantima pa su brojcana cuda uradjena na onome sto pise.Arapa, jer neke vokale uopće ne pišu, tj. ne računaju kao slova, nego samo kao oznake
ova brojcana cuda sto vidis gore su uradjena na osnovu onoga sto imamo danas a to je 6236 ajeta,i vidimo da je matematicki perfektno, taj neko ko tvrdi da ima vise ili manje ajeta nek donese dokaz, nemoze se oduzeti jedan ajet ili dodati, a da ne pobrkas programiranje, ma cak nemozes pomjeriti jedno slovo recimo iz fatihe a da ne unistis matematicko programiranje teksta.Da ne govorim o tome da muslimani nisu saglasni oko toga ako da broje ajete (postoje različite metodologije, pa se broj od 6 236 ne može uzeti kao univerzalan, ovisi od tradicije do tradicije).
eh da je to tako pisano onda bi ti zamjerka bila na mjestu, ali uopste ne ide u paru, nego se spomene na jednom mjestu 2 puta, na drugom nikako, na trece 1 puta znaci ne prati jedno drugog pa da mozes reci da je onda za ocekivatiNavedeni pojmovi su suprotni, dakle logično da se navode jedni uz druge. Recimo, "Na ovom svijetu radite ovako i onako..... a na onom će vas snaći kaznazbog......" Nije teško pretpostaviti da su većina ovih spominjanja uparena, tako da opet ni tu ne vidim ništa čudno, kao ni u činjenici da u proizvoljnom skupu brojeva polovina budu parni
znaci po ovome, andjeli su uvijek spominjani pored djavola pa da hje lahko upratiti, a pa nije slucaj takav, nego cak sta vise neznam jeli mogu igdje naci zajedno andjele i djavole jedno do drugo a ipak se spominju isto puta 88."Na ovom svijetu radite ovako i onako..... a na onom će vas snaći kaznazbog......"
tako da ti to nepije vode
u Kuranu se racuna i solarno i lunarno racunanje vremena, za solarnu godinu se koristi Sinat , a za lunarnu AmOvo o godini od 365 dana i 12 mjeseci je međusobno kontradiktorno, jer se radi o dvama različitim računanjima vremena. Ako uzmemo da godina ima 12 mjeseci, onda ima 354 dana, ako uzmemo da ima 365 dana, onda ima 12.nešto mjeseci ("mjeseci" u gregorijanskom kalendaru su tu samo simbolično i nemaju nikakve veze s kretanjem Mjeseca).
tako da ti i to nepije vode, niti si upoznat sa racunanjem vremena izgleda.
nego da te pitam, jeli solarna godina ima 365 dana, ? da
jeli u Kuranu rijec Dan, arapski Jewm, u jednostavnoj singular formi spomenuto 365 puta? jeste, pa u cemu je onda problem momcino????
zato sto Kuranska znacenja su mnogostruka, nemora da znaci da samo je 19 andjela nad Dzehennemom, nego je taj broj isto naglasen kao iskusenje za nevjernike a vjernicima poveca vjerovanjeI da, također, ne vidim zašto bi broj spomenut u ajetu u kojem se opisuje Sekar (najdublji krug Pakla), a to je taj "iznad njega je 19", bio nekakav ključ za razumijevanje cijelog Kur'ana, osim ako islam nije zapravo sotonistička religija.
kako moze obican broj biti iskusenje za nevjernika a vjerniku povecati vjerovanje osim onako kako sam prezentirao ili nesto slicno ,da je programiran Kuran sa 19 a da to nemoze niko imitirati, sto jasno potvrdjuje ono sto BOg kaze u Kuranu da je nemoguce za ljude da urade jedan ovakav Kuran.
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Chagalj
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#29 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
volio bi to, da sam na fakultetu pokazao bi nekom porefosru matematike ovo pa da on kaze svoje misljenje na sve ovocenecimoveocino wrote:Odes na PMF I kazes ovo nekom doktoru iz matematika I tjt.
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Maxxtro
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#30 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Ako ti nije dovoljna ova sprdnja i ismijavanje preko foruma, ako bi htio to i uzivo iskusiti, slobodno izvoli otici do fakulteta.Chagalj wrote:volio bi to, da sam na fakultetu pokazao bi nekom porefosru matematike ovo pa da on kaze svoje misljenje na sve ovocenecimoveocino wrote:Odes na PMF I kazes ovo nekom doktoru iz matematika I tjt.
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L u c i f e r
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vaha123
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#32 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
2*sqrt(-abs(abs(x)-1)*abs(3-abs(x))/((abs(x)-1)*(3-abs(x))))(1+abs(abs(x)-3)/(abs(x)-3))sqrt(1-(x/7)^2)+(5+0.97(abs(x-.5)+abs(x+.5))-3(abs(x-.75)+abs(x+.75)))(1+abs(1-abs(x))/(1-abs(x))),-3sqrt(1-(x/7)^2)sqrt(abs(abs(x)-4)/(abs(x)-4)),abs(x/2)-0.0913722(x^2)-3+sqrt(1-(abs(abs(x)-2)-1)^2),(2.71052+(1.5-.5abs(x))-1.35526sqrt(4-(abs(x)-1)^2))sqrt(abs(abs(x)-1)/(abs(x)-1))+0.9
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Chagalj
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#33 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
znam ja dobro sta je sprdnja i ismijavanje, da to ima podloge razumio bi, ali do sad niko nije uspio osporiti ovo na jedan kvalitetan nacin sa dokazima, gdje ja nebi imao izgovora, pa evo molim te pogledaj ovo jedinog covjeka ovdje Paljevina on je jedini ulazio u duel sa ovim brojcanim cudima, pokusao da osporiti jedno po jedno, ali vidi se da covjek nije upucen, da pomalo nagadja, tvrdeci da su suportne stvari zajedno spominjanje kako bi se pratilo njihovo kretanje kroz knjigu sto nije istina, pa onda tvrdi kako je kontradiktornost pratiti solarnu godinu a muslimani racunaju lunarni kalendar, a nezna da u Kuranu ima solarna godina "Sinat", i hidzretska godina "Am" , cak sta vise se se naglasi na jednom mjestu 300 solarnih godina a to je 309 hidzretskih godina.Maxxtro wrote:Ako ti nije dovoljna ova sprdnja i ismijavanje preko foruma, ako bi htio to i uzivo iskusiti, slobodno izvoli otici do fakulteta.Chagalj wrote:volio bi to, da sam na fakultetu pokazao bi nekom porefosru matematike ovo pa da on kaze svoje misljenje na sve ovocenecimoveocino wrote:Odes na PMF I kazes ovo nekom doktoru iz matematika I tjt.
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Od tebe sam ocekivao malo vise jer su te izvikali kako poznaje matematiku ovo ono...ali me nisi uvjerio.
da cu ti jedno malo matematicko cudo iz Kurana koje je vidljivo i opipljivo a koje neces moci imitirati
kao sto sam prilagao prije kako je ogromna cifra
evo recimo ovo

hajde sad ti meni daj nesto slicno samo u manje obimu
ovo hocu da vidim od tebe pa mi pokazi da nije nemoguce uraditi
123456 / 7 = rezultat bez decimala
654321 / 7 = rezultat bez decimala
ABCDEF / 7 = rezultat bez decimala
FEDCBA / 7 = rezultat bez decimala
ABCDEF i FEDCBA su pozicije brojeva kao sto imamo u gore Kuranskom slucaju
jesi li u stanju uraditi nesto ovako?
Mozda ce se neko pitati zasto bas 7, pa zato sto je Kuran programiran u broju 7 i 19, cak Bog u ajetima daje naglaske na 7 i 19.
15:87. I doista smo ti dali sedam ponavljajućih i i Kur’an veličanstveni.
74:30. Nad njim je devetnaest.
ovdje vidimo naglaske da ima nesto tu sa 7 i sa 19. pa kad malo bolje analiziramo vidimo da je Kuran programiran sa ova dva broja.
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L u c i f e r
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#34 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
U pravu si jbg.
Stvarno je čudo.

Stvarno je čudo.
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Trebam te
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#35 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Quran je Bozija rijec i cudo koje ljudi trebaju istrazivati i uciti kako bi donekle skontali koja je moc Qurana.
Ove matematicke teze su samo jedan mali dokaz sta Kuran sve ima u sebi, a poznato je da nekoliko profesora sa americkih i engelskih univerziteta procuavajuci Kuran su presli na Islam!!!
Niti i jedna ovozemaljska knjiga nema u sebi tako nesto slicno kao Kuran.

Ove matematicke teze su samo jedan mali dokaz sta Kuran sve ima u sebi, a poznato je da nekoliko profesora sa americkih i engelskih univerziteta procuavajuci Kuran su presli na Islam!!!
Niti i jedna ovozemaljska knjiga nema u sebi tako nesto slicno kao Kuran.
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Chagalj
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#36 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
evo slikovit primjer gdje je programiran raspodjela bismile sa rezultatom ako podijelimo sa 7
pa ko je ovo ustanju uraditi ovako nesto

pa ko je ovo ustanju uraditi ovako nesto

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L u c i f e r
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Trebam te
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#38 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Chagalj wrote:evo slikovit primjer gdje je programiran raspodjela bismile sa rezultatom ako podijelimo sa 7
pa ko je ovo ustanju uraditi ovako nesto
Niko osim Boga.
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mirzet87sa
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#39 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Ja cu ti ovo uraditi ali kad mi kazes za kog si glasao. 
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Chagalj
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#40 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
ni za koga jer se nema za koga glasati.mirzet87sa wrote:Ja cu ti ovo uraditi ali kad mi kazes za kog si glasao.
- HAVANA
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#41 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Ja odo iz ovih stopa u Dzamiju.Ovo me uvjerilo da sam bio u zabludi.
Imao sam ja jednog ovakvog na poslu,vazda mi truni o ovim stvarima.Radio 2 godine , poslije 2 godine kad odem negdje nazove me i pita kako ce dobiti neto cijenu iz bruto cijene?
Kaze 24600 bruto,koliko je neto?
Jebem li ti uciteljicu,haj ti kuci...
Imao sam ja jednog ovakvog na poslu,vazda mi truni o ovim stvarima.Radio 2 godine , poslije 2 godine kad odem negdje nazove me i pita kako ce dobiti neto cijenu iz bruto cijene?
Kaze 24600 bruto,koliko je neto?
Jebem li ti uciteljicu,haj ti kuci...
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Chagalj
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#42 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
da vam kazem koliko je samo komplicirano pronaci cifru koja je djeljiva naopako sa jednim brojem
dovlljno je da testiramo ovo
broj sa 2 cifre
32 / 2 = 16
23 / 2 = 11.5 Nije djeljiv
pokusamo sa 3 cifre
144 /12 = 12
441 /12 = 36.75 Nije djeljiv
kad je tesko naci sa 2 ili 3 cifre kako je onda tesko naci sa 114 cifri koje je djeljiv sa desne i sa lijeve strane, i jos u rezultatu naglasi 7 gdje se nalazi u ajetu 15873 -15 sura 87 ajet 3 rijec = sedam
ovako jednostavna matematika a nemoguca za imitirati moze samo doci izvan ljudskog domena
dovlljno je da testiramo ovo
broj sa 2 cifre
32 / 2 = 16
23 / 2 = 11.5 Nije djeljiv
pokusamo sa 3 cifre
144 /12 = 12
441 /12 = 36.75 Nije djeljiv
kad je tesko naci sa 2 ili 3 cifre kako je onda tesko naci sa 114 cifri koje je djeljiv sa desne i sa lijeve strane, i jos u rezultatu naglasi 7 gdje se nalazi u ajetu 15873 -15 sura 87 ajet 3 rijec = sedam
ovako jednostavna matematika a nemoguca za imitirati moze samo doci izvan ljudskog domena
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mirzet87sa
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#43 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
a ti si jedan od onih sto nisu izasli na glasanje jer im odgovara situacija, e pa ti trazi nekog slicnog pa nek ti odgovori na zadatakChagalj wrote:ni za koga jer se nema za koga glasati.mirzet87sa wrote:Ja cu ti ovo uraditi ali kad mi kazes za kog si glasao.
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Trebam te
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#44 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
HAVANA wrote:Ja odo iz ovih stopa u Dzamiju.Ovo me uvjerilo da sam bio u zabludi.![]()
Imao sam ja jednog ovakvog na poslu,vazda mi truni o ovim stvarima.Radio 2 godine , poslije 2 godine kad odem negdje nazove me i pita kako ce dobiti neto cijenu iz bruto cijene?
Kaze 24600 bruto,koliko je neto?![]()
![]()
Jebem li ti uciteljicu,haj ti kuci...
Ne trebaju te brojevi tjerati u dzamiju, ali istrazivati i citati o tome nije na odmet, pocinjes oktrivati da postoji jos nesto osim i Neto/Bruto!
Nisi ti pozvan u dzmaiju jos, kad budes otici ces sam i bez brojeva!!!
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spacek
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#45 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
toliki kapacitet i igra se s brojevima i u njima trazi znacenjemirzet87sa wrote:a ti si jedan od onih sto nisu izasli na glasanje jer im odgovara situacija, e pa ti trazi nekog slicnog pa nek ti odgovori na zadatakChagalj wrote:ni za koga jer se nema za koga glasati.mirzet87sa wrote:Ja cu ti ovo uraditi ali kad mi kazes za kog si glasao.
a ne moze naci jednog kandidata na listu za kojeg ce glasati
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Trebam te
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#46 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Haj ne budalitoliki kapacitet i igra se s brojevima i u njima trazi znacenje
a ne moze naci jednog kandidata na listu za kojeg ce glasati
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spacek
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#47 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
jezim se od obrazovanih ljudi i pametnjakovica kojim je glavni izgovor ''nemam za koga glasati''. pa gdje ti je pamet tolika da svojom inteligencijom uspijes naci barem jedan izbor.Trebam te wrote:Haj ne budalitoliki kapacitet i igra se s brojevima i u njima trazi znacenje
a ne moze naci jednog kandidata na listu za kojeg ce glasatirazguli ako nemas sta pametnije reci
- pezzar
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#48 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Čitam i moram na ovo da reagujem i neću više.Chagalj wrote: ...
napomena, kad bi samo premjestili jedno slovo na drugu poziciju, ili kad bi samo skloniti jedno slovo, ili cak kad bi samo zamijenili pozicije dva slova nebi ovo funkcionalisalo, tolika je preciznost u programiranju Kurana i ove sure Fatiha.
1)
11978617581126181124119836181072436009 / 19 =
630453556901377953901044009530128211
2)
60094310721883619241116181258117786191 / 19 =
3162858459046506275848220066216725589
Ako uzimaš za primjer 144 i 441, pa kažeš da nisu djeljivi sa 12, onda isto primjeni i gore, pa umjesto da promijeniš redoslijed blokovima brojeva, promijeni stvarni redoslijed. Odnosno:
naopako napisan broj 11978617581126181124119836181072436009 nije 60094310721883619241116181258117786191 nego
90063427018163891142118162118571687911, pa tako nije djeljivo sa 19.
Neću ja ulaziti u raspravu s tobom, znam da ćeš opet reći nešto tipa nije to naopak broj, jer su blokovi brojevi sura, ajeta ili šta god ti drugo bude odgovaralo.
Pozz
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L u c i f e r
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#49 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Recently a new sect of Islam is burgeoning among some pseudo intellectual Muslimswho on one hand cannot accept the stupidities preserved in the Hadith as they cast adark shadow on Muhammad and Islam presenting it as a barbaric, irrational andinhumane religion and on the other hand they are unable to sever their umbilical cordswith Islam altogether. They are called the Submitters. They deny the Hadith and maintainthat only Quran should be relied as the guidance for the Muslims. But they go farther andclaim that Quran contains a numeric miracle that is based on the number 19.http://www.submission.org[1]In their response, Hikmat, an ex-Muslim young lady friend of mine from India wrote thefollowing article.The basic question is-- “does style decide the validity of content?”Style is “how” a thing is presented.Content is “what” is presented. (meaning)My answer is No. Style cannot decide the validity of content.Proof – same thing can be presented in different styles and different things can bepresented in the same style. So there is no correlation between style and content.If we take the meaning of style in a broader sense it includes the language it ispresented, oral or written, hand written or printed or engraved, medium of print, if it iswritten font type, size, color etc. If we take style pertain to structure, it comprise of objective (number of letters, number of words, number of paragraphs or lines etc.) andsubjective (is it beautiful, rhythmic, eloquent, aesthetically presented etc.) qualities.Almost from every religion some claim that their scriptures contain mathematicalmiracles. Submitters claim that Quran is “mathematically” structured and so it is a miracleand consequently divine. They claim that Quran contains many “features” which aremultiples of 19. It was first explained in a monograph by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D entitled"Computer manifested Miracles in the Holy Qur'an".Assuming even if its structure is “mathematical” , it does not make its contentsautomatically valid. We have to examine the content to decide its validity.I would like to show whether it is a “miracle” or not from technical point of view withoutgoing into the content of Quran.Does mathematics prove this as a miracle? On the contrary mathematics show that it isnot a miracle. No mathematician takes submitters claim as serious. Because, it containsfundamental flaws.It is a lie-free deception.But it is not so easy to convince people of this conclusion; because when you read Khalifa’s work you can't help but be struck by how amazing it sounds. It really is veryimpressive. It is also true! Khalifa was not lying about his arithmetic; accidental errorsaside, all his "features" are really there.The trick is simple. From any book, you can select “options” or “features” or “Items” or what ever you call them. Like in the present case, number of words, number of letters,number of chapters, number of times a word occurs etc. the options are infinite. You canhave combination of options like number of letters in the chapter names, number of letters in the odd chapters, number of letters in the even chapters,…so on. Chances arethat some of the options are multiples of 19 or for that matter any number.List out the options that are matching with your criteria (i.e. multiples of 19). How manyoptions you think you will get? Thousands and thousands! With slight change in thedefinition of the options you can get still more options. So what submitters are showing is,the options that matched with their criteria. What about the options that they left?The real mathematical person will ask:What is the number of options available?What percentage of options meeting your criteria? If the percentage is much higher thanthe statistically allowed probability, then we can call it some kind of “structured” or in thesubmitters language a “miracle”.As I have told, there are infinite number of options and you can get thousands of optionsthat are multiples of any particular number from any book.To give a crude analogy, it is something like this. From any beach with coarse sand, It ispossible that you can find some sand grains exactly weighing say one gram. How manyyou will get? It depends on how long you spend to collect the “required” grains. Then youbring all the sand grains each exactly weighing one gram and claim that the beach ismiracle and one gram is miracle number. If you do not know how many sand grains Idiscarded which are not fitting in my scheme, you may think it is a miracle.Rashada Khalifa did exactly same with the Quran.What can be possible features from Quran?Number of letters in each verse, number of letters in each Surah, total number of lettersin the whole book, number of letters in 1 St chapter, 2nd chapter….n th chapter. Nowsubstitute word for letter.Number of time the word God (or any other word for that matter) occurs, number of nouns, places, animals. etc. creativity is the limit.If number of letters in each chapter is coming as a multiple of 19 then take that category,if it is not fitting, check whether total number of letters in all the chapters is fitting into thescheme. With permutations and combinations (like adding chapter numbers and versenumbers) he could derive many features, which he calls as mathematical miracle of theQuran.What about the thousands of other features that are not matching his criteria (likediscarded sand grains)?With slight shift in the definition of what is being counted, he could show more“impressive” list.
2http://www.faithfreedom.org/print/3480
Some anomalies in Khalifa’s method.
1) Traditionally, in Islam the consensus of the reciters has had greater authority than anyparticular written text. Khalifa generally used the received text of the Quran known asHafs, written in the Egyptian style. There are other received texts, which differ in certainrespects from the text he used. Warsh (another common version), differs with Hafs inspelling. Though both versions are same in meaning when it comes to counting wordsand letters both are “different” Qurans. \1.He altered the Quran to fit into his scheme. (He claims he restored it to itsoriginal)If we define the "Qur'an" to mean the 'Uthmanic text as accepted today, hechanged some verses based on pronunciation and Tashkent Quran.(bastatan in 7:69 and Nuwn in Sura 68) but he has not incorporated all other variations from the text. then the question is why only two variations were adoptedand why not others?)2.He eliminated the last two verses of Sura 9.3.As far as combination of Sura and verse numbers coming to multiples of 19, itshould be understood that the division of verses in the Quran is based on fivedifferent systems:the Kufah system, following the tradition of Ali;the Basra system, following Mohammed's companion Asim ibn Hajjaj;the Shami system of Syria used by Mohammed's companion Abdu'lla-h ibn Umar the Makkah system andthe Madinah system.This makes it obvious that Mohammed did not undertake the division into verses.As far as the ordering of the Suras is concerned this was done by Khalif Uthman(Information from "Dictionary of Islam", pages 489-492).The division of verses or ordering of Suras, which form the “Structure” of Quranwas not originally there but introduced later. So any miracle nature attributedinvolving the number of Suras or verses is not part of Quran.4.What exactly is being counted? Just words or meaning of the words?Some times only words were counted irrespective of their meaning. Wherever it isnot adding up, same word is not counted basing that it was used in a differentmeaning.5.Some times all grammatical forms of the words were considered. Some timesnot. For example in considering singular, dual, and plural forms of a word thecriteria appears to be multiple of 19.There are other features of Quran which are multiples of 7, 11 etc. any one with a lotof time to waste can come up with any number of “features” from any book which aremultiples of any number. I have seen a document in circulation on the Internetshowing the “Mathematical” patterns in the document “the declaration of independence” of USA and “predicting” the future events from the pattern. Obviouslyit was floated for fun just to show how easy it is to fool people with “mathematical”
3http://www.faithfreedom.org/print/3480
patterns.A last word about “Patterns” in poetry. I do not know much about Arabic poetry, but Iam aware of meter in some of the Indian languages, where each line of a verse hascertain fixed number of letters.Each type of poem has fixed letters in it. Few years ago, when I visited south India, Ipersonally observed a performance by a poet what is called as “Sathavadhanam”. It isa well-known art form (a kind of competition between poets) I feel it is relevant tomention it in this context. The main poet is called an “Avadhani.” He competes withhundred other poets.On a stage the hundred poets sitting ready to pose Questions or riddles to theAvadhani. Each one will ask a question and specifies in which poetic form he wantsthe answer. Very often the questioner request that the answer should contain in aparticular type of poem (number of letters are fixed) and it should contain certainwords or not to containing certain words or letters or combination of letters. Theyspecify all odd combinations and the most difficult questions. As soon as thequestioner finished his request the Avadhani is ready with the answer by composing apoem instantly without using any pen and paper and moves on to the next questioner.After listening hundred different questions from these hundred people Avadhani startsanswering by reciting poems in the form requested by the questioner. He answers toall the questions in the order it was asked. He does not note down the questions.Apart from this the avadhani should keep track of the count of bells that were rungtime to time to distract him.I was told that this kind of art is performed by many poets and there are innumerablepoets who perform this at a smaller scale with 8 questioners, which is popularlyknown as “Astavadhanam”.It is a matter of seconds for this kind Avadhanis to compose any poem with anyspecification and style. But no one considers them as miracle. It is their creativitycoupled with years of practice and concentration. I wonder what the Avadhanis say if asked to “produce a Sura like it…”Fortunately these Avadhanis do not know Arabic. Other wise God knows how many“miracle” Suras have been produced!Also the Christians have come with their own version of themathematical miracle of theBible[2]. See the following link.http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Numbe ... alm118.htm[2
]An interesting study:The Law of Truly Large Numbers (coincidences)
2http://www.faithfreedom.org/print/3480
Some anomalies in Khalifa’s method.
1) Traditionally, in Islam the consensus of the reciters has had greater authority than anyparticular written text. Khalifa generally used the received text of the Quran known asHafs, written in the Egyptian style. There are other received texts, which differ in certainrespects from the text he used. Warsh (another common version), differs with Hafs inspelling. Though both versions are same in meaning when it comes to counting wordsand letters both are “different” Qurans. \1.He altered the Quran to fit into his scheme. (He claims he restored it to itsoriginal)If we define the "Qur'an" to mean the 'Uthmanic text as accepted today, hechanged some verses based on pronunciation and Tashkent Quran.(bastatan in 7:69 and Nuwn in Sura 68) but he has not incorporated all other variations from the text. then the question is why only two variations were adoptedand why not others?)2.He eliminated the last two verses of Sura 9.3.As far as combination of Sura and verse numbers coming to multiples of 19, itshould be understood that the division of verses in the Quran is based on fivedifferent systems:the Kufah system, following the tradition of Ali;the Basra system, following Mohammed's companion Asim ibn Hajjaj;the Shami system of Syria used by Mohammed's companion Abdu'lla-h ibn Umar the Makkah system andthe Madinah system.This makes it obvious that Mohammed did not undertake the division into verses.As far as the ordering of the Suras is concerned this was done by Khalif Uthman(Information from "Dictionary of Islam", pages 489-492).The division of verses or ordering of Suras, which form the “Structure” of Quranwas not originally there but introduced later. So any miracle nature attributedinvolving the number of Suras or verses is not part of Quran.4.What exactly is being counted? Just words or meaning of the words?Some times only words were counted irrespective of their meaning. Wherever it isnot adding up, same word is not counted basing that it was used in a differentmeaning.5.Some times all grammatical forms of the words were considered. Some timesnot. For example in considering singular, dual, and plural forms of a word thecriteria appears to be multiple of 19.There are other features of Quran which are multiples of 7, 11 etc. any one with a lotof time to waste can come up with any number of “features” from any book which aremultiples of any number. I have seen a document in circulation on the Internetshowing the “Mathematical” patterns in the document “the declaration of independence” of USA and “predicting” the future events from the pattern. Obviouslyit was floated for fun just to show how easy it is to fool people with “mathematical”
3http://www.faithfreedom.org/print/3480
patterns.A last word about “Patterns” in poetry. I do not know much about Arabic poetry, but Iam aware of meter in some of the Indian languages, where each line of a verse hascertain fixed number of letters.Each type of poem has fixed letters in it. Few years ago, when I visited south India, Ipersonally observed a performance by a poet what is called as “Sathavadhanam”. It isa well-known art form (a kind of competition between poets) I feel it is relevant tomention it in this context. The main poet is called an “Avadhani.” He competes withhundred other poets.On a stage the hundred poets sitting ready to pose Questions or riddles to theAvadhani. Each one will ask a question and specifies in which poetic form he wantsthe answer. Very often the questioner request that the answer should contain in aparticular type of poem (number of letters are fixed) and it should contain certainwords or not to containing certain words or letters or combination of letters. Theyspecify all odd combinations and the most difficult questions. As soon as thequestioner finished his request the Avadhani is ready with the answer by composing apoem instantly without using any pen and paper and moves on to the next questioner.After listening hundred different questions from these hundred people Avadhani startsanswering by reciting poems in the form requested by the questioner. He answers toall the questions in the order it was asked. He does not note down the questions.Apart from this the avadhani should keep track of the count of bells that were rungtime to time to distract him.I was told that this kind of art is performed by many poets and there are innumerablepoets who perform this at a smaller scale with 8 questioners, which is popularlyknown as “Astavadhanam”.It is a matter of seconds for this kind Avadhanis to compose any poem with anyspecification and style. But no one considers them as miracle. It is their creativitycoupled with years of practice and concentration. I wonder what the Avadhanis say if asked to “produce a Sura like it…”Fortunately these Avadhanis do not know Arabic. Other wise God knows how many“miracle” Suras have been produced!Also the Christians have come with their own version of themathematical miracle of theBible[2]. See the following link.http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Numbe ... alm118.htm[2
]An interesting study:The Law of Truly Large Numbers (coincidences)
- plonker
- Posts: 251
- Joined: 30/01/2010 20:21
#50 Re: Potrebni su mi matematicari, POMOC MOLIM
Ili vidi ovo
144 186 138 198
114 228 150 66
96 114 186 180
174 156 204 114
Zbir cifara u prvom redu jako dobro poznat.
Ako ovu "determinantu" ili ti "matricu" podjelimo sa 6, a potom uradimo "transponse" dobićemo novu determinantu.
Ako tu determinantu čitamo po redovima, gdje svaki broj predstavlja slovo u našoj abecedi prema sljedećoj šemi:
a 11
b 12
c 13
č 14
ć 15
d 16
dž 17
đ 18
e 19
f 20
g 21
h 22
i 23
j 24
k 25
l 26
lj 27
m 28
n 29
nj 30
o 31
p 32
r 33
s 34
š 35
t 36
u 37
v 38
z 39
ž 40
možda ćeš dobiti odgovor na svoje pitanje.
Živio ti meni!
144 186 138 198
114 228 150 66
96 114 186 180
174 156 204 114
Zbir cifara u prvom redu jako dobro poznat.
Ako ovu "determinantu" ili ti "matricu" podjelimo sa 6, a potom uradimo "transponse" dobićemo novu determinantu.
Ako tu determinantu čitamo po redovima, gdje svaki broj predstavlja slovo u našoj abecedi prema sljedećoj šemi:
a 11
b 12
c 13
č 14
ć 15
d 16
dž 17
đ 18
e 19
f 20
g 21
h 22
i 23
j 24
k 25
l 26
lj 27
m 28
n 29
nj 30
o 31
p 32
r 33
s 34
š 35
t 36
u 37
v 38
z 39
ž 40
možda ćeš dobiti odgovor na svoje pitanje.
Živio ti meni!
