Forum Klix.ba

Black swan wrote:da...tinjalo je tri mjeseca od 10. mj 1992.
i tad je bas krenulo...ali pravo tek u aprilu

_BataZiv_0809 wrote:Na onom spomeniku u obliku kriza na putu Vitez-Lasva, pise "zrtve muslimanske opsade Viteza". Kakva je to opsada u pitanju? Na sta se tu misli?

melac wrote:

Pitar s Kariba wrote:
dobro objašnjeno!
stihijski se mogu dešavati incidenti ... stihijski se mogu dešavati zločini, pojedinačni ili manje brojni (namjerno neću da kažem manji ili veći, jer je ubistvo jednog nevinog čovjeka veliki zločin) ...ali, stihijski se ne može započeti rat .. za to mora postojati odluka, plan i mehanizam realizacije.. a to je upravo ovo gore objašnjeno.
ARBiH taj rat ni u ludilu nije trebao, pa je u oklijevanju i izbjegavanju sukoba izgubljeno dosta pozicija ... međutim, neke stvari su se ipak naučili od '92 i kad je puklo znalo se i udariti gdje treba ... i opet se je išlo na smirivanje, na potpisivanje mira ... odbranom g.vakufa i pritiskom na SB došlo se do vašingtona .. franjo se malo preračunao, a bio je slab na kordića

Meni se čini da Labud prije svega ima viziji početka sukoba u svakom mjestu, a to je posebno izraženo u SB, da je u svakom gradu sukob počeo incidentom, i to izgleda kao neka stihija, bio incident, krv se prolila i poslije nema povratka, svako svoju stranu drži pa kako završi. No plan je postojao, ali ne u smislu nekih razrađenih bitki, s pravcim udar, koja jedinica gdje napada i sl. ovdje se više radili o planu provokacija, i kako se gdje provokacija aktivirala tako su sukobi pojačavali do konačnog ratnog stanja, te ovo unosi percepciju da nije bilo nikakvog plana, moje mišljenje ( a mišljenje je relativno ), bolje kazati viđenje da je plan postojao, samo kako su ga vodili političari a ne vojskovođe tako je i izgledao, nije bio jasan. Nastavkom sukoba u SB nije odgovaralo nikome od dvije strane, osim VRS ( Republike Srpske ili Republike Srbije teško je razlučiti ), ABiH jer je pred kraj HVO ušao u ofanzivna djelovanja, a HVO jer nije imao sposobnosti ili snage da se spoji SB s Hercegovinom ( ili bolje reci nije imao više love za oržuje od VRSa ). tako ja to vidim.

Black swan wrote:da...tinjalo je tri mjeseca od 10. mj 1992.
i tad je bas krenulo...ali pravo tek u aprilu

stakasa wrote:

Black swan wrote:da...tinjalo je tri mjeseca od 10. mj 1992.
i tad je bas krenulo...ali pravo tek u aprilu

Otvoreni sukob je poceo klasicnim zlocinom HVO-a u Prozoru kada su pobijeni videniji Bosnjaci. Ali tad se je svako pravio da se to nije desilo pa se kasnije nije puno ni spominjalo

Black swan wrote:Bata se pravi naivan
Jer su hrvati u svako doba imali slobodne ceste ka hrvatskoj preko kupresa, jajca, i zepca
a mogli su i ostalim pravcima
Nije bilo cek pointa

melac wrote:

stakasa wrote:

Black swan wrote:da...tinjalo je tri mjeseca od 10. mj 1992.
i tad je bas krenulo...ali pravo tek u aprilu

Otvoreni sukob je poceo klasicnim zlocinom HVO-a u Prozoru kada su pobijeni videniji Bosnjaci. Ali tad se je svako pravio da se to nije desilo pa se kasnije nije puno ni spominjalo

U kojem periodu se ovo dogodilo?

stakasa wrote:

melac wrote:

stakasa wrote: Otvoreni sukob je poceo klasicnim zlocinom HVO-a u Prozoru kada su pobijeni videniji Bosnjaci. Ali tad se je svako pravio da se to nije desilo pa se kasnije nije puno ni spominjalo

U kojem periodu se ovo dogodilo?

Vruce je bilo, mozda neki septembar devedeset druge

Central Bosnia, Winter 1993 `Don't shoot, don't shoot,' the three soldiers cried out to their comrades as they staggered up the rain-sodden slope towards the Muslim lines at the edge of Novi Travnik. The BiH troops scrambled out of their bunkers among the trees, stumbling down the narrow trenches to take up their positions on the knoll of ground overlooking the Croat-held houses little more than a hundred yards below them. These were confused moments, though once in place it took the fighters only seconds to understand the full horror unfolding before their eyes. The men approaching them were their own, captured days earlier during a dawn infiltration of the Muslim lines by the HVO. Now, forced back across no man's land, the prisoners lurched unnaturally up the hillside. Their hands were strapped to their waists. Improvised claymore mines were attached to their chests, linked to the Croat houses by coils of wire that unravelled slowly with each step of their robotic progress. The human bombs were returning home. As the distance narrowed an officer shouted at his men to shoot them. They refused. Two of the prisoners were from Novi Travnik itself, pre-war friends of those in the trench. The third man was from the same unit. The Muslim troops argued frantically among themselves. Some of the soldiers ran back from the lip of the trench to their bunkers. The officer was screaming at the three men to halt. They kept on walking. As they neared the edge of the trench he too fell back. There were three individual explosions, so close together as to roll into one protracted thun-derous roar that bounced echoes between the cold black hills. Blood, shrapnel and tissue sprayed through the trees. For a few seconds there was silence. A couple of soldiers and the officer peered cautiously over the edge of the trench. In the shredded, ankle-high scrub before them they could make out three pairs of legs. It was all that was left of their friends. Though short of ammunition the Muslims' rifle barrels were smoking with heat by the time they finished blazing their empty rage away. The limbs of their men lay before them, tantalizingly close but dangerously out of reach. It was several days before they managed to negotiate a ceasefire and British UN troops came in to remove them.

Under their rules of engagement they could not attack the HVO, who were in any case caught up in crowds of Croat civilians. For a time it seemed as though the mob might turn on the UN troops themselves. We were already getting spat at and punched and, for those who could understand the language, there was talk of killing 'all the foreigners'. After intense negotiation and what appeared to be a promise by local HVO commanders to keep their people under control, the next vehicles from the convoy, which had been held over-night behind Muslim lines, took their chance the following day, this time with Warriors picketing the roads.

The situation was repeated: trucks halted by mobs; looting and robbing accompanied by bursts of gunfire. I saw one driver punched and kicked repeatedly by civilians and soldiers before being swung onto the prongs of a pitchfork thrust by a woman. Worse followed. Not fifty metres from Viktorija's house a truck was waved down by an HVO soldier. The driver slowed, produced his documents and waved them out of the window at the soldier. Unhurriedly the soldier lifted his Kalashnikov with one arm and fired into the driver's head at point-blank range. The window on the opposite side of the cab blew out in a spray of brains and the truck lurched across the road, crashing into a telegraph post. The gunman walked away. I ran up and peered in the cab. The body was slumped across the seat. His head looked like the pale and empty skin of a squashed baked potato, only with hair. Bits of his brain lay on the seat like jellied semolina. Men, women and children jostled aboard the truck and began to take sacks of flour from the back. They dispersed as more gunfire rattled around us.

Down the road a Warrior did open fire, cutting down two HVO as they prepared to attack another truck. The Croats dressed the bodies in suits, claimed they were innocent bystanders murdered by the British, and invited a TV crew to film the cadavers. I got to know the father of one of the men quite well. He is still trying to get financial compensation out of the UN, though he later admitted that his son had been in uniform that day.

A lone man ran down the road past Viktorija's house in a state of helpless fear. He was a Muslim driver who had miraculously escaped from his truck alive. 'Help me, help me,' he cried. We took him to the small UN press house outside the gates of the base. He sat under an apple tree with his head in his hands while a British captain and a colour sergeant actually argued about the man's fate. The key to his survival lay in getting safe passage through the UN camp to the klix Muslim hamlet on the other side. Yet under UN rules no Bosnian civilians were allowed into their bases. It never looked as if the British soldiers would kick the Muslim out into the street again, yet what seemed like an obvious course of action — providing an armed escort to take the man down the road through the base to the other side — took a long time to discuss, and even longer to implement.

It made your blood pound to see two 'peacekeepers' arguing about a man's life. Unarmed people were getting murdered before the eyes of a British force which had the firepower and equipment to take the whole valley in a matter of hours if it wished, yet could only watch, like bovine commuters in a London tube who shuffle past a gang of skinheads kicking a hapless individual on the platform. It was not the soldiers' fault, and ultimately the troops who saw what had happened must have faced much more personal disillusion than me. The blame lay with the organization that put them in that situation — the UN. Thank God it was not me in a Warrior that day, battling the instinct to crush the barricades and those upon them with its tracks, while instead having to look on as innocent men were bestially murdered.

Finansijski najteži sastanak bio je onaj od 8. jula 1993. s Milivojem Petkovićem u Njivicama, u vrijeme sukoba Hrvata i Bošnjaka. Petković je do kraja jula 1993. bio načelnik Glavnog stožera HVO-a, a tada ga je zamijenio Praljak. Mladić je zabilježio da su u zamjenu za oružje i “učinjene usluge” položene 1,191.246 tadašnjih njemačkih maraka i dvije cisterne dizela.

Dogovoreno je da Hrvati 8,092.032 marke plate u roku od sedam dana. Sav taj novac došao je, naravno, iz Hrvatske, jer se u to vrijeme HVO finansiralo direktno iz Zagreba.

Prvi sastanak koji je Haško tužiteljstvo izdvojilo je onaj od 5. oktobra 1992, kad se Mladić u Pečuhu našao s delegacijom Hrvatske i Herceg-Bosne.

Kao predstavnik Hrvatske bio je Slobodan Praljak, koji je od marta 1992. do jula 1993. bio pomoćnik Gojka Šuška. U julu 1993. postaje zapovjednik HVO-a. Praljak od Mladića traži da srpske snage prekinu granatirati Slavonski Brod. Hrvati iz Jajca Srbima će dati struju, a oni će im zauzvrat pustiti vodu. Praljak (ako je vjerovati dnevničkim bilješkama) predlaže Mladiću obustavu sukoba.

mishic wrote: Krenuli i pomjerili ih. U Gučoj Gori kada smo im uzeli zgradu Komande našli telegrame, zapisnike, karte... Sve dogovoreno, isplanirano, nacrtano... Teritorija koju smo mi držali podijeljena dokle će koji uzeti... Granice nacrtane...
A mi ispod Guče Gore formiramo linije odbrane sa po deset metaka... A na Vlašiću prema četnicima u rovovima ljudi i od po 70 godina. Bilo i ne ponovilo se!

domi wrote:Rat u SB je bio najveca glupost, Srbi su tu odradili dobar posao.