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mehoxy wrote: ↑25/11/2025 14:57 Zelenski i Ukrajina nisu u poziciji da uvjetuju bilo sta jer, vrlo ocigledno, gube rat.

TRUMPOV izaslanik Steve Witkoff, neposredno nakon uspjeha mirovnog sporazuma za Gazu, prošlog je mjeseca održao telefonski razgovor s visokim dužnosnikom Kremlja kako bi predložio suradnju na sličnom planu za Ukrajinu.

U razgovoru održanom 14. listopada, koji je trajao nešto više od pet minuta, Witkoff je savjetovao Jurija Ušakova, Putinova glavnog savjetnika za vanjsku politiku, kako bi ruski čelnik trebao pristupiti Trumpu.

Njegovi savjeti uključivali su i prijedloge da se organizira telefonski razgovor između Putina i Trumpa prije posjeta ukrajinskog predsjednika Volodimira Zelenskog Bijeloj kući kasnije toga tjedna, koristeći sporazum o Gazi kao uvod u razgovor.

A call with Putin right before Zelensky arrived could explain why things seemed to go off the rails right away last time the Ukrainian delegation was in DC.

Witkoff: And here’s one more thing: Zelensky is coming to the White House on Friday.
Putin envoy Ushakov: I know that. [chuckles]
Witkoff: I will go to that meeting because they want me there, but I think if possible we have the call with your boss before that Friday meeting.
Ushakov: Before, before — yeah?
Witkoff: Correct

Izvor naveo tri ključne točke neslaganja između SAD-a i Ukrajine: Predaja teritorija koji nije osvojen, ograničenje veličine ukrajinske vojske i ulazak Ukrajine u NATO

Bloomberg published a transcript of a conversation between Putin advisers Kirill Dmitriev and Yuri Ushakov about preparing their version of the peace plan.

The agency claims the conversation took place on October 29.

**Ushakov:** Hello?

**Dmitriev:** Yury Viktorovich.

**Ushakov:** Yes, Kirill Alexandrovich, well, I've sent everything over there. We'll be talking tomorrow.

**Dmitriev:** Great, great. Yes, yes, yes. I've flown to Saudi Arabia, but I think it's very important, yes, because this is a very good path forward.

**Ushakov:** Well, we need to do it to the maximum— what do you think, probably? But what exactly to pass along like that?

**Dmitriev:** No, look. I think we should take this paper and frame it as our position, and I'll just hand it over informally, saying that all of this is informal. And let them make it their own. But I doubt they'll take our version exactly, but at least as close as possible to it.

**Ushakov:** That's just the thing—they might not take it and then claim it's coordinated with us. That's what I'm afraid of.

**Dmitriev:** No, no, no. This will definitely be straight from me, together with you—I'll say it word for word, just as you instruct.

**Ushakov:** They could twist it later and that's it. Well, there's that risk. There is. Alright, whatever. We'll see.

**Dmitriev:** Yeah, I think just like that... And then you can also talk to Steve [Witkoff] about this paper. Meaning, we'll handle it carefully.

**Ushakov:** [Inaudible]

**Dmitriev:** Thank you so much, Yury Viktorovich. Thank you so much. Thank you. Goodbye.

Tri desetljeća nakon završetka opsade Sarajeva, koja je trajala 1425 dana i u kojoj je poginulo 11.541 osoba, europsko pravosuđe pokrenulo je službenu istragu o stravičnom činu poznatom kao "Sarajevo Safari". Govorimo o cijeloj industriji organiziranih "tura" radi "ubojstava iz zabave", kada su (kako istraga sumnja) bogati stranci plaćali ogromne svote novca za priliku da dođu u ratnu zonu za vikend i pucaju na civile...
...Priča o "Sarajevskom safariju" zvuči kao alarmantno upozorenje za Ukrajince: čak i najstrašniji zločini mogu ostati nekažnjeni desetljećima. Činjenica da je istraga započela tek trideset godina nakon opsade Sarajeva pokazuje slabost međunarodne pravde. Za stanovnike Kijeva i Ternopilja, Harkiva i Hersona, Zaporožja i Dnipra te drugih gradova i sela u Ukrajini to znači da čak i ako se današnji ruski zločini dokumentiraju, nema jamstva da će počinitelji biti kažnjeni za našeg života. Ali istovremeno, daje nadu da se i nakon desetljeća ratni zločini ne zaboravljaju. Pogotovo ako ne dopustite da ih svijet zaboravi.

Ekskluziva Reutersa: Trumpov mirovni plan sastavljen je u Kremlju!

Reuters: Američki mirovni plan za Ukrajinu zasnovan je na ruskom dokumentu

Mirovni plan od 28 točaka za okončanje rata u Ukrajini, koji podržavaju SAD, a koji je prošlog tjedna postao javan, temeljio se na ruskom dokumentu koji je Trumpovoj administraciji podnesen u listopadu, tvrde tri izvora upoznata s tim pitanjem, piše Reuters.

Rusi su dokument, u kojem su navedeni uvjeti Moskve za okončanje rata, podijelili s visokim američkim dužnosnicima sredinom listopada, nakon sastanka američkog predsjednika Donalda Trumpa i ukrajinskog predsjednika Volodimira Zelenskog u Washingtonu, rekli su izvori.

Neslužbeni dokument, poznat u diplomatskom žargonu kao "non-paper", sadržavao je tekst koji je ruska vlada prethodno iznijela za pregovaračkim stolom, uključujući ustupke koje je Ukrajina odbila, poput ustupka značajnog dijela svog teritorija na istoku.

"Ovo je prva potvrda da je dokument, o čijem je postojanju Reuters izvijestio još u listopadu, bio ključni doprinos mirovnom planu od 28 točaka", zaključuje Reuters.

Preuzeto sa: https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/svijet/ ... jl_home_g1

karanana wrote: ↑26/11/2025 16:19 takodjer kod ovog plana, bode me tacka, parafraziram: integracija rusije u svjetsku ekonomiju, G7 i ostale organizacije.

mislim, to je vjerovatno najbitnija tacka za rusiju, ali bas sam se pitao, ako ostane status gdje rusija dobija dio ukrajine koji je osvojila, hajde barem onda da se vjecno izolira i da ostane tamni vilajet sa sankcijama, ali ocigledno se to nece desiti. onda je bolje nek vojno uzmu ovo jos malo donbasa sto je ostalo bez ikakvog potpisivanja mira, ali da onda ostanu i sankcije i izolacija.
ali sigurrno to ne odgovara ni evropi jer i oni hoce da se vrate na rusku plinko/naftnu sisu

dr_Evil wrote: ↑11/11/2022 07:09 Rat kartama, Bosna all over again. Ljudi ginu dok neki sta im se vise ne dize u pozadini crtaju "mirovne" karte. Cim ko imalo dogovore neki moguci rasplet pomice se vojska. Mes cini da Nevenka Tromp i napisa knjigu o tome.

This is a transcript of Steve Witkoff and Yuri Ushakov Putin's foreign policy adviser.

Discussing how to manipulate President Trump Psychologically with Putin.

Steve Witkoff: Hi Yuri

Yuri Ushakov: Yeah Steve hi, how are you?

SW: Good Yuri. How you doing?

YU: I am ok. Congratulations my friend

SW: Thank you

YU: You made a great job. Just a great job. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you

SW: Thank you Yuri and thanks for your support. I know your country supported it and I thank you

YU: Yes, yes, yes. Yes. You know that’s why we suspend the organization of first Arabic summit

SW: Yes

YU: Yeah, because we think that you are making the real job there in the region

SW: Well listen. I am going to tell you something. I think, I think if we can get the Russia-Ukraine thing solved, everybody’ll be jumping for joy

YU: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you need to solve only one problem. [laughs]

SW: What?

YU: Russian-Ukrainian war

SW: I know! How do we get that solved?

YU: My friend, I just want your advice. Do you think that it will be useful if our bosses will talk on the phone?

SW: Yes, I do

YU: You do. And when you think it could be possible?

SW: I think as soon as you suggest, my guy is ready to do it

YU: Ok, ok

SW: Yuri, here’s what I would do. My recommendation

YU: Yes, please

SW: I would make the call and just reiterate that you congratulate the president on this achievement, that you supported it, that you respect that he is a man of peace and you’re just, you’re really glad to have seen it happen. So I would say that. I think from that it’s going to be a really good call

Because let me tell you what I told the President. I told the president that the Russian Federation has always wanted a peace deal. That’s my belief. And I believe the question is the issue is that we have two nations that are having a hard time coming to a compromise and when we do, we’re going to have a peace deal. I’m even thinking that maybe we set out like a 20-point peace proposal, just like we did in Gaza. We put a 20-point Trump plan together and I’m thinking maybe we do the same thing with you. My point is this...

YU: Ok, ok my friend. I think that very point our leaders could discuss. Hey Steve, I agree with you that he will congratulate, he will say that Mr. Trump is a real peace man and so and so. That he will say

SW: But here’s what I think would be amazing

YU: Ok, ok

SW: What if, what if... hear me out..

YU: I will discuss that with my boss and then I come back to you. Ok?

SW: Yeah because listen to what I’m saying. I just want you to say, maybe just to say this to President Putin, because you know I have the deepest respect for President Putin

YU: Yes, Yes

SW: Maybe he says to President Trump: you know, Steve and Yuri discussed a very similar 20-point plan to peace and that could be something that we think might move the needle a little bit, we’re open to those sorts of things to explore what it’s going to take to get a peace deal done. Now, me to you, I know what it’s going to take to get a peace deal done: Donetsk and maybe a land swap somewhere. But I’m saying instead of talking like that, let’s talk more hopefully because I think we’re going to get to a deal here. And I think Yuri, the president will give me a lot of space and discretion to get to the deal

YU: I see..

SW: ...so if we can create that opportunity that after this I talked to Yuri and we had a conversation I think that could lead to big stuff

YU: Ok, that sounds good

SW: One more thing: Zelenskiy is coming to the White House on Friday.

YU: I know that. [laughs]

SW: I will go to that meeting because they want me there, but I think if possible we have the call with your boss before that Friday meeting.

YU: Before, yeah?

SW: Correct

YU: Ok, ok. I got your advice. So I discuss that with my boss and then I come back to you, ok?

SW: Ok Yuri, I’ll speak to you soon

YU: Great, great. Thank you so much. Thanks you

SW: Bye, bye

YU: Bye

[Call Ends]

Armin2013 wrote: ↑26/11/2025 16:28 Većina nas ovdje želi da se rat završi na isti način, porazom Rusije, ali Rusija ima resurse za rat a Ukrajina nema i zavisi od pomoći, tako da će Ukrajinci morat pristati ne neke ustupke, pitanje je koliko i EU želi finansirati rat, i šta se sve dešava iza zatvorenih vrata.

Po meni i Ukrajinci su krivi za ovo, umjesto da se prijave u vojsku i poraze Rusiju dok su imali podršku i pomoć oni bježali, svi su znali da pomoć neće vječno pristizati. Ali lahko je sad pisat, možda bi i oni sad drugačije.

Bilo kakav ustupak Rusiji daje signale drugim državama da mogu napasti komšije, i proći bez nekih poslijedica.
Jer kako stvari stoje i Rusija i Izrael će se izvući bez nekih poslijedica.