Ukrajina

[Bodkin]

Ne gledaj na to tako. Svijet mora imati ravnotezu da ne bi napredne,zemlje osim ideja sirile nasilno svoja trzista. Jer osim par zemalja u eu, ostali rade za njih. Rade da bi tih par moglo biti bogato. I to je u redu dok je dobrovoljno. Ali nije u redu mijenjati vlade, nasilno uvoditi uredjenja koja ne odgovaraju mentalitetu ili na kraju vojno intervenisati da bi p&g mogao prodati koju pelenu vise. E za to ti treba ravnoteza u misicima.

Sve je to fino, ali evo ti konkretno Rusije koja se ponaša imperijalistički potpuno isto kao i USA, samo u skladu sa svojim mogućnostima. Ona ne radi za nečiju dobrobit, a kao sve je dobro dok postoji multipolaran svijet? Poenta je da dok smo imali ideološke razlike, postojale su i razlike u viđenju načina uređenja svijeta, i različiti pravci. Sada imamo samo imperijalističke igre za resurse, uticaj i moć. Šta to bilo koga u Evropi može privući Rusiji?

Pa ne moze nista ali vidis sta sam napisao. Dobro je da postoje rusija i kina samo da amerika ne bi radila bas sve sto pozeli. Ovako rade 90%. Dakle ne radi se ovdje o tome da li bi rqdje zivio u rusiji ili usa i da li bi prije bio saveznik sa usa ili rusijom

[daddy-kool]

Pa ne moze nista ali vidis sta sam napisao. Dobro je da postoje rusija i kina samo da amerika ne bi radila bas sve sto pozeli. Ovako rade 90%.

Ono što sam ja napisao je da bi bilo bolje da postoji stvarni takmac Americi a ne ove drugorazredne sile.
A ne treba precijeniti ni USA, nemaju baš toliki kapacitet da rade šta požele.

[Kombat]

[Kombat]

[Bodkin]

Pa ne moze nista ali vidis sta sam napisao. Dobro je da postoje rusija i kina samo da amerika ne bi radila bas sve sto pozeli. Ovako rade 90%.

Ono što sam ja napisao je da bi bilo bolje da postoji stvarni takmac Americi a ne ove drugorazredne sile.
A ne treba precijeniti ni USA, nemaju baš toliki kapacitet da rade šta požele.

Bilo bi ali nema. Kina ce to biti za 10-20 godina pa cemo vidjeti. Nemaju da rade sve sto pozele ali imaju za 90% kako sam rekao

[GAU8]

Sve je to fino, ali evo ti konkretno Rusije koja se ponaša imperijalistički potpuno isto kao i USA, samo u skladu sa svojim mogućnostima. Ona ne radi za nečiju dobrobit, a kao sve je dobro dok postoji multipolaran svijet? Poenta je da dok smo imali ideološke razlike, postojale su i razlike u viđenju načina uređenja svijeta, i različiti pravci. Sada imamo samo imperijalističke igre za resurse, uticaj i moć. Šta to bilo koga u Evropi može privući Rusiji?

I ja ovo isto uporno govorim Rusofilima, kad god dođu s tezom kako možeš biti "rob imperijalista"

Pa oni se sami stavljaju u položaj roba samo drugog imperijaliste. (samo malo manje moćnog i samim tim manje utjecajnog i manje sveprisutnog)

Ali džaba, umjesto da zaista vide obje strane, kako sami tvrde, upravo oni vide samo jednu stranu.

[Renta]

Samo kratko.. kad već neki spominju kapital i njegovo kretanje i da je sve ovo samo zbog kapitala iz "trulog zapada".. Pa zar danas nije i Rusija kapitalistička zemlja, sa surovijim kapitalizmom od zapadnog?
Zar ruski kapital isto tako nije gladan, ne treba kretanje?
Zar gdje došao ruski kapital nije tamo iz čisto pragmatičnih razloga - da ruska ekonomija preživi, i iskoristi resurse zemlje gdje je kapital plasiran?

O čemu to pojedinci trabunjaju?? Rusija je skandinavija? Malo morgen.

Od dva zla uvijek biram zapadni.

[GAU8]

Od dva zla uvijek biram zapadni.

Upravo tako. Nema dobre strane. Samo možemo birati (po našem mišljenju) "bolje" zlo.

[Kombat]

[daddy-kool]

Bilo bi ali nema. Kina ce to biti za 10-20 godina pa cemo vidjeti. Nemaju da rade sve sto pozele ali imaju za 90% kako sam rekao

Neće, Kinezi imaju svoju civilizaciju koja nije dovoljno univerzalna, a nije ni prikladna našem mentalitetu da bi bila neka alternativa.

Kao što rekoh, trebaju bolje ideje u kulturnom, društenom i ekonomskom pogledu.

[Bodkin]

Bilo bi ali nema. Kina ce to biti za 10-20 godina pa cemo vidjeti. Nemaju da rade sve sto pozele ali imaju za 90% kako sam rekao

Neće, Kinezi imaju svoju civilizaciju koja nije dovoljno univerzalna, a nije ni prikladna našem mentalitetu da bi bila neka alternativa.

Kao što rekoh, trebaju bolje ideje u kulturnom, društenom i ekonomskom pogledu.

Nije nasem ali nije ni mcd bio prikladan pa gledaj danas. Nije ni nosanje kafe u tegli pa ja radim itd. Pare i reklame ce to sve promijeniti. Plus sto imas cijelu aziju gdje jeste prikladan. Gledaj globalno

[daddy-kool]

Nije ni nosanje kafe u tegli pa ja radim itd.

Nisam u toku, to je neki novi fazon?

[Bodkin]

Nije ni nosanje kafe u tegli pa ja radim itd.

Nisam u toku, to je neki novi fazon?

Ama starbucks fazoni. Litar kafe sa sobom nosis

[Captain Ahab]

Ruski ministar odbrane Shoigu sada prilagodjava pricu o rusenju malezijskog aviona te kaze da 'se nesreca desila u vazdusnom prostoru Ukrajine, koja snosi punu odgovornost za to sto se desilo'. Ali zaboravlja da kaze da se nesreca desila nad teritorijom pod kontrolom ruskih separatista, potpomognutih od strane Rusije...

Russian Defense Minister: Kiev Bears ‘Full Responsibility’ For MH17 Tragedy
MOSCOW, September 10 (RIA Novosti) – The Kiev government bears “full responsibility” for the crash of Malaysian Boeing in Ukraine, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday.
“The disaster took place in the airspace of Ukraine, which bears full responsibility for what had happened,” he told his Malaysian counterpart Hishammuddin Tun Hussein.
The tragedy would have never happened had Ukraine opted to solve its internal problems through peaceful means, Shoigu added.
“If Ukraine solved its internal problems without the military involvement, without last month’s bloodshed, without heavy artillery weaponry, including rockets, without aviation – helicopters, attack aircraft, fighter jets – I am sure that this tragedy would not have happened,” the Russian minister stressed.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17 in Donetsk Region, killing all 298 people on board.
According to a preliminary crash report issued on Tuesday, the plane broke into pieces mid-flight after being hit by “a large number of high-energy objects.”
The Ukrainian government claims that independence supporters in the country’s eastern regions shot the plane down but it has not provided any evidence to support those claims. Local militia leaders insist that they do not have weapons capable of shooting the MH17 aircraft down.
The Russian Defense Ministry said that an Ukrainian combat jet was detected in close approach to the MH17 shortly before it crashed. The presence of the Ukrainian Su-25 ground attack aircraft can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center. In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air Buk missile systems, according to the Russian Defense Ministry.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140910/192800 ... -MH17.html

[pici]

Ruski ministar odbrane Shoigu sada prilagodjava pricu o rusenju malezijskog aviona te kaze da 'se nesreca desila u vazdusnom prostoru Ukrajine, koja snosi punu odgovornost za to sto se desilo'. Ali zaboravlja da kaze da se nesreca desila nad teritorijom pod kontrolom ruskih separatista, potpomognutih od strane Rusije...

Russian Defense Minister: Kiev Bears ‘Full Responsibility’ For MH17 Tragedy
MOSCOW, September 10 (RIA Novosti) – The Kiev government bears “full responsibility” for the crash of Malaysian Boeing in Ukraine, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday.
“The disaster took place in the airspace of Ukraine, which bears full responsibility for what had happened,” he told his Malaysian counterpart Hishammuddin Tun Hussein.
The tragedy would have never happened had Ukraine opted to solve its internal problems through peaceful means, Shoigu added.
“If Ukraine solved its internal problems without the military involvement, without last month’s bloodshed, without heavy artillery weaponry, including rockets, without aviation – helicopters, attack aircraft, fighter jets – I am sure that this tragedy would not have happened,” the Russian minister stressed.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17 in Donetsk Region, killing all 298 people on board.
According to a preliminary crash report issued on Tuesday, the plane broke into pieces mid-flight after being hit by “a large number of high-energy objects.”
The Ukrainian government claims that independence supporters in the country’s eastern regions shot the plane down but it has not provided any evidence to support those claims. Local militia leaders insist that they do not have weapons capable of shooting the MH17 aircraft down.
The Russian Defense Ministry said that an Ukrainian combat jet was detected in close approach to the MH17 shortly before it crashed. The presence of the Ukrainian Su-25 ground attack aircraft can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center. In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air Buk missile systems, according to the Russian Defense Ministry.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140910/192800 ... -MH17.html

mene samo cudi kako do sad nisu izasli sa pricom kako je sve namjesteno kako su se samoubilacki srusili i bacali iz aviona lutke da se prikaze sto vise zrtava itd itd...liliputanci smaljikojipovraca

[Captain Ahab]

Zanimljiva analiza Putinovog modusa operandi i njegovih mogucih buducih poteza u Ukrajini

Putin is great at duping people who say “don’t cry wolves”, me included. Each of his steps is so cautious, well-camouflaged and open to multiple interpretations that many observers fail to register his extremely dangerous overall trajectory. He probes and if he doesn’t meet any resistance, which almost always appears to be the case, he presses on. You can’t really say when exactly he dismantled Yeltsin-era democracy in Russia, but at some point it just became clear as a day. Acting in the same covert manner, he has dismantled the existing world order, but the world is yet to realise that.

The lesson we can learn from Putin is – think the unthinkable. It had been unthinkable he would invade Crimea, yet he did so. It had been unthinkable he’d start a war in Donbass, yet he did that, too. It had been unthinkable he would send regular troops to Ukraine, yet now it is sufficient to shuffle through Russian soldiers’ accounts on social networks or talk to their desperate relatives to figure out where they are and what they’ve been up to in recent weeks.

So it is totally worth acting on the assumption that nothing is inconceivable and whenever you pose a question about Putin’s ability to do something even more evil, the answer is likely to be positive. Yes, he can try to create a land corridor to Crimea by invading swathes of Ukrainian territory. Yes, his troops may march on Odessa and all the way to Moldova’s breakaway region of Transnistria. Yes, he can send tanks to seize Kiev and keep moving further west. The truth is we don’t really know who this men is and what he wants, whether he is driven by instinct or design, is he sane or suicidal and if there is anyone in his entourage or in Russia as a whole who can stop him.

He won’t tell us, but it is equally conceivable that he has reached the point where he wants to stop. It is quite possible that we should believe the head of the Russian Duma foreign committee Alexei Pushkov when he says that both sides are suffering “war fatigue” and that ceasefire agreements signed in Minsk last week signify “a logical end of the war”. But that already looked like wishful thinking when the rebels started shooting at Ukrainian positions near Mariupol on Saturday night, while the official Twitter feed of self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic @press_dnr announced that a full-out assault on Mariupol was under way.

All in all, Russia has made very little gain in eastern Ukraine – rebels control only parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, there is no land corridor to Crimea, while the settlement plan outlined in Minsk agreements looks suspiciously favourable for Ukraine. Rebel-held territories remain inside the country and there is no suggestion they’ll get the same rights as, for example Serb-held territories under Dayton agreement in Bosnia. It might be that Putin has just taken a break.

But if that’s not the case, there is no room for complacency. The world was shocked when Russian troops invaded Georgia in 2008. At that time, the Russians could have marched all the way to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, but they stopped short of doing so and agreed to the EU-brokered truce. Was it conceivable at the time that Putin will repeat this adventure on a much grander scale and with a much bigger and stronger ex-USSR country, such as Ukraine? But he did so and there is no guarantee he won’t decide to do something even more unthinkable some years later, even if Ukraine and Russia agree on the terms of permanent settlement now.
...

http://fullofbias.wordpress.com/2014/09/10/yes-he-can/

[Captain Ahab]

Ruski ministar odbrane Shoigu sada prilagodjava pricu o rusenju malezijskog aviona te kaze da 'se nesreca desila u vazdusnom prostoru Ukrajine, koja snosi punu odgovornost za to sto se desilo'. Ali zaboravlja da kaze da se nesreca desila nad teritorijom pod kontrolom ruskih separatista, potpomognutih od strane Rusije...

Russian Defense Minister: Kiev Bears ‘Full Responsibility’ For MH17 Tragedy
MOSCOW, September 10 (RIA Novosti) – The Kiev government bears “full responsibility” for the crash of Malaysian Boeing in Ukraine, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday.
“The disaster took place in the airspace of Ukraine, which bears full responsibility for what had happened,” he told his Malaysian counterpart Hishammuddin Tun Hussein.
The tragedy would have never happened had Ukraine opted to solve its internal problems through peaceful means, Shoigu added.
“If Ukraine solved its internal problems without the military involvement, without last month’s bloodshed, without heavy artillery weaponry, including rockets, without aviation – helicopters, attack aircraft, fighter jets – I am sure that this tragedy would not have happened,” the Russian minister stressed.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17 in Donetsk Region, killing all 298 people on board.
According to a preliminary crash report issued on Tuesday, the plane broke into pieces mid-flight after being hit by “a large number of high-energy objects.”
The Ukrainian government claims that independence supporters in the country’s eastern regions shot the plane down but it has not provided any evidence to support those claims. Local militia leaders insist that they do not have weapons capable of shooting the MH17 aircraft down.
The Russian Defense Ministry said that an Ukrainian combat jet was detected in close approach to the MH17 shortly before it crashed. The presence of the Ukrainian Su-25 ground attack aircraft can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center. In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air Buk missile systems, according to the Russian Defense Ministry.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140910/192800 ... -MH17.html

mene samo cudi kako do sad nisu izasli sa pricom kako je sve namjesteno kako su se samoubilacki srusili i bacali iz aviona lutke da se prikaze sto vise zrtava itd itd...liliputanci smaljikojipovraca

Nemoj se cuditi, bila je i takva prica...

According to the Associated Press, rebel commander Igor Girkin said on the Russkaya Vesna website that witnesses to the crash have informed him that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh” when they fell from the sky. He also claimed that many of them had been drained of blood and stank of decomposition because they had been dead for days.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/19/u ... ad-bodies/

[sumirprimus]

renta,mudro zboris i bRez rukavica...
mozda se i ne slazem s tobom ,al zato i sluze forumi...
kontraargumentacija tipa vid mu glave,blajburg narkaca i sl,obicno ko i u rl imaju vise podrske,narod voli galamdzije,juris nasi,negoli stante ljudi da razmislimo...i tako..
malezija erlajns,su25?taka taka taka,boskoooo eto stuka...

[Bodkin]

Cuj narod voli galamdzije. Ako kaze da su jugoslaviju srbi voljeli jer su htjeli da budu kroz nju vecina u svim drzavama, a zvanicna statistika kaze da su se procentualno SMANJIVALI u hr, bih, slo, mak i cg onda mozemo zakljuciti da lik lupa ili izmislja podatke. Jel to posteno?

Sent from my Lumia

[Renta]

renta,mudro zboris i bRez rukavica...
mozda se i ne slazem s tobom ,al zato i sluze forumi...
kontraargumentacija tipa vid mu glave,blajburg narkaca i sl,obicno ko i u rl imaju vise podrske,narod voli galamdzije,juris nasi,negoli stante ljudi da razmislimo...i tako..
malezija erlajns,su25?taka taka taka,boskoooo eto stuka...

Thanks kolega.

[pici]

Nemoj se cuditi, bila je i takva prica...

According to the Associated Press, rebel commander Igor Girkin said on the Russkaya Vesna website that witnesses to the crash have informed him that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh” when they fell from the sky. He also claimed that many of them had been drained of blood and stank of decomposition because they had been dead for days.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/19/u ... ad-bodies/

ovo treba u laboratorije secirat im mozgove i vidjet na koji nacin se to moze genetski odstranit...ovo nisu ljudi

[pici]

sreda 10.09.2014 | 13:03 -> 13:50
Merkel: Sankcije Rusiji odmah
Izvor: Tanjug

Nemačka kancelarka Angela Merkel pozvala je EU da odmah primeni sankcije uvedene Rusiji zato što mirovni plan za istok Ukrajine još nije u potpunosti sproveden.


EU je odobrila uvođenje novih sankcija Rusiji zbog ukrajinske krize, ali je precizirala da će sačekati nekoliko dana sa sprovođenjem tih kaznenih mera kako bi dala Moskvi vremena da nastavi mirovne napore.

Merkelova je u parlamentu istakla da je važno da mirovni plan koji su izradili Ukrajina i Rusija, bude sproveden i dodala da su "prekid
vatre i oslobađanje zarobljenika samo dve od 12 tačaka" plana.

Ostale tačke uključuju povlačenje ruske vojske iz regiona i mogućnost da stanovnici Donjecka i Luganska sami odluče o budućem statusu tih regiona na istoku Ukrajine, dodala je nemačka kancelarka.

Merkelova je rekla da iako "nema 100 odsto prekida vatre, ali postoji poboljšanje" situacije na terenu, i ukazala na izostanak pune primene ostalih tačaka mirovnog plana.

U tom svetlu, "podržavamo da sankcije budu objavljene i nadam se da će odluka biti uskoro doneta", rekla je Merkelova.

Usvojene sankcije stupaju na snagu tek kad budu objavljene u Službenom glasniku EU.

"Želim da dodam da ćemo prvi ukinuti nove sankcije ako 12 tačaka zaista bude ispunjeno", istakla je nemačka kancelarka.

Ona je naglasila da su vrata za pregovore otvorena i da će ostati otvorena, prenose nemački mediji.

Nemačka kancelarka je u Bundestagu branila prošlonedeljne odluke NATO u vezi sa Rusijom i istakla da se sloboda Ukrajine mora osigurati.

Ukrajinske vlasti i proruski pobunjenici potpisali su u petak u Minsku protokol o prekidu vatre.

[Captain Ahab]

Primirje se uglavnom odrzava. Ukrajina priprema legislativu o statusu teritorija pod kontrolom separatista. Nema govora o federaciji ili autonomiji, vec 'privremenom specijalnom statusu' - zasad je nejasno sta on podrazumijeva.

Poroshenko i Putinko salju pomirljive glasove (Poroshonko npr. tvrdi da se vec 70% ruske vojske povuklo iz Ukrajine). Lavrov kaze da ce Rusija uciniti sve da se primije i dogovor iz Minska odrze.

Pojavio se i potpisani protokol iz Minska: http://www.osce.org/ru/home/123258?download=true

Tekst je prilicno generalan ali i povoljan za Ukrajinu, i mnogi na (novo)ruskoj strani ga vec smatraju izdajom.

Sta se desava dalje? Da li je ovo samo predah prije nastavka borbi - Ukrajini da se pregrupira, Rusiji da pokusa izbjeci nove sankcije?

Ili je ovo maksimum koji Putin misli da moze izvuci u ovom trenutku bez placanja prevelike spoljnopoliticke i ekonomske cijene, a istovremeno i nuzni minimum s kojim moze da 'sacuva obraz' i povuce se iz rata?

[Renta]

Vidjećemo da, Putin je vuk u janjećoj koži i svašta je za očekivati od njega.
Sigurno je da će ići na maksimum zahtjeva pa dokle stigne.

[daxon]

Uspješno završena vježba ukrajinskih i američkih vojnih snaga u Crnom Moru...
Uspješno
http://www.rustelegraph.ru/news/2014-09 ... deo-18635/