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JohnnyS wrote: ↑22/04/2026 21:38 Ima li ijedne države koja nije nastala na ubojstvima starosjedioca ili su Sjedinjene Američke Države jedine takve na svijetu?

banjaluka078 wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:25 Sekta će za njega izmisliti i novu matematiku.

https://www.index.hr/mobile/vijesti/cla ... ajnovije_m

banjaluka078 wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:29

toska wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:33

banjaluka078 wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:25 Sekta će za njega izmisliti i novu matematiku.

https://www.index.hr/mobile/vijesti/cla ... ajnovije_m

Pusti to, Ameri isti lijek placaju i 10 puta vise od cijena u EU.
Kako je to uopšte moguće, pogotovo u slobodnoj, trzisnoj ekonomiji?

Inzulin (razni tipovi):
Prosječna cijena po jedinici u SAD-u je 98,70 USD.
U većini zemalja EU cijena se kreće između 8 i 10 USD po bočici

zigzag wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:58

toska wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:33

banjaluka078 wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:25 Sekta će za njega izmisliti i novu matematiku.

https://www.index.hr/mobile/vijesti/cla ... ajnovije_m

Pusti to, Ameri isti lijek placaju i 10 puta vise od cijena u EU.
Kako je to uopšte moguće, pogotovo u slobodnoj, trzisnoj ekonomiji?

Inzulin (razni tipovi):
Prosječna cijena po jedinici u SAD-u je 98,70 USD.
U većini zemalja EU cijena se kreće između 8 i 10 USD po bočici

jeste ali u americi je inzulin najčišći i najkvalitetniji koji je svijet ikad vidio

banjaluka078 wrote: ↑23/04/2026 09:25 Sekta će za njega izmisliti i novu matematiku.

https://www.index.hr/mobile/vijesti/cla ... ajnovije_m

JohnnyS wrote: ↑22/04/2026 21:38 Ima li ijedne države koja nije nastala na ubojstvima starosjedioca ili su Sjedinjene Američke Države jedine takve na svijetu?

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 10:31

JohnnyS wrote: ↑22/04/2026 21:38 Ima li ijedne države koja nije nastala na ubojstvima starosjedioca ili su Sjedinjene Američke Države jedine takve na svijetu?

Ovo pitanje malo prejednostavljuje istoriju.

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 10:52

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 10:31

JohnnyS wrote: ↑22/04/2026 21:38 Ima li ijedne države koja nije nastala na ubojstvima starosjedioca ili su Sjedinjene Američke Države jedine takve na svijetu?

Ovo pitanje malo prejednostavljuje istoriju.

Ili se ne uklapa u priču o genocidnoj Americi i ostalim pravednim državama nastalim valjda Božjim davanjem

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 11:39

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 10:52

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 10:31

Ovo pitanje malo prejednostavljuje istoriju.

Ili se ne uklapa u priču o genocidnoj Americi i ostalim pravednim državama nastalim valjda Božjim davanjem

ovo je veoma glupa diskusija, na razini ravne zemlje - you know that, right?

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 11:50

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 11:39

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 10:52

Ili se ne uklapa u priču o genocidnoj Americi i ostalim pravednim državama nastalim valjda Božjim davanjem

ovo je veoma glupa diskusija, na razini ravne zemlje - you know that, right?

Ako ti tako kažeš. S druge pak strane možeš reći koja to zemlja nije nastala tako da nije potamanila ili porobila starosjedioce.

Samo se to Americi uzima kao neki argument, a Rusija koja je od Kijeva došla do Vladivostoka ili Arapima koji iz Medine došli do Casablance valjda bez da ikog vide putem ne uzima.

Ne treba komplicirati jednostavne stvari, manje više sve države su nastale trijebeći druge narode, to je bio standard prije i zato treba prestati to koristiti kao stavku u raspravama.

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 12:52

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 11:50

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 11:39

ovo je veoma glupa diskusija, na razini ravne zemlje - you know that, right?

Ako ti tako kažeš. S druge pak strane možeš reći koja to zemlja nije nastala tako da nije potamanila ili porobila starosjedioce.

Samo se to Americi uzima kao neki argument, a Rusija koja je od Kijeva došla do Vladivostoka ili Arapima koji iz Medine došli do Casablance valjda bez da ikog vide putem ne uzima.

Ne treba komplicirati jednostavne stvari, manje više sve države su nastale trijebeći druge narode, to je bio standard prije i zato treba prestati to koristiti kao stavku u raspravama.

Ucili smo po skolama koje su drzave/imperije bile kolonijalne sile i koje su provodile kolonijalizam, kao i kako su u tim procesima pocinjeni teski zlocini nad autohtonim stanovnistvom --> USA, Kanada i Australija su primjeri takvih kolonija.

S druge strane, Njemacka nije nastala kroz kolonizaciju starosjedilaca na svom teritoriju, vec ujedinjenjem postojecih drzava.
Ali npr. Njemacka jeste kao kolonijalna sila u Africi jeste posebno u tadasnjoj Njemackoj Jugozapadnoj Africi (danas Namibija) pocinila genocid.
U Namibiji je i prije i poslije tog genocida bilo konflikata medju starodjediocima - ali se oni nisu medjusobno poubijali da bi danjasnja Namibija bila onakva kakva jeste.

Konflikt nije “ubojstvo starosjedilaca” i veoma jednostavan pogled na svijet je kada se svaka historijska smrt ili sukob automatski izjednaci s “ubojstvom starosjedilaca” u smislu kolonijalnog osvajanja.

Historijski procesi su ipak nesto kompleksniji.

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 13:03

vee-jay wrote: ↑23/04/2026 12:52

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 11:50

Ako ti tako kažeš. S druge pak strane možeš reći koja to zemlja nije nastala tako da nije potamanila ili porobila starosjedioce.

Samo se to Americi uzima kao neki argument, a Rusija koja je od Kijeva došla do Vladivostoka ili Arapima koji iz Medine došli do Casablance valjda bez da ikog vide putem ne uzima.

Ne treba komplicirati jednostavne stvari, manje više sve države su nastale trijebeći druge narode, to je bio standard prije i zato treba prestati to koristiti kao stavku u raspravama.

Ucili smo po skolama koje su drzave/imperije bile kolonijalne sile i koje su provodile kolonijalizam, kao i kako su u tim procesima pocinjeni teski zlocini nad autohtonim stanovnistvom --> USA, Kanada i Australija su primjeri takvih kolonija.

S druge strane, Njemacka nije nastala kroz kolonizaciju starosjedilaca na svom teritoriju, vec ujedinjenjem postojecih drzava.
Ali npr. Njemacka jeste kao kolonijalna sila u Africi jeste posebno u tadasnjoj Njemackoj Jugozapadnoj Africi (danas Namibija) pocinila genocid.
U Namibiji je i prije i poslije tog genocida bilo konflikata medju starodjediocima - ali se oni nisu medjusobno poubijali da bi danjasnja Namibija bila onakva kakva jeste.

Konflikt nije “ubojstvo starosjedilaca” i veoma jednostavan pogled na svijet je kada se svaka historijska smrt ili sukob automatski izjednaci s “ubojstvom starosjedilaca” u smislu kolonijalnog osvajanja.

Historijski procesi su ipak nesto kompleksniji.

Naravno, Nijemce je na obale Rajne spustio Odin osobno.

Sve i jedna država je nastala ubijanjem starosjedioca, samo je pitanje kad je to bilo. Stavljati teret nekom Joeu iz Michigana jer je glasao za Trumpa, apsolutno da. Jučer, danas, sutra. Držati nad njim hipoteku jer je prije 150 godina otud netko otjerao Indijance. Ne, nikako.

These too the Sclaveni routed with no trouble, and they slew the most of them in a most disgraceful sight ; they also captured Asbadus and for the moment made him a prisoner, but afterwards they burned him by casting him into a fire, having first flayed strips from the man's back.

Having accomplished these things, they turned to plunder all the towns, both of Thrace and of Illyricum, in comparative security ; and both armies captured many fortresses by siege, though they neither had any previous experience in attacking city walls, nor had they dared to come down to the open plain, since these barbarians had never, in fact, even attempted to overrun the land of the Romans.

Indeed it appears that they have never in all time crossed the Ister River with an army before the occasion which I have mentioned above. Then those who had defeated Asbadus plundered everything in order as far as the sea and captured by storm a city on the coast named Topirus,- though it had a garrison of soldiers ; this is the first of the coast towns of Thrace and is twelve days' journey distant from Byzantium.

And they captured it in the following manner. The most of them concealed themselves in the rough ground which lay before the fortifications, while some few went near the gate which is toward the east and began to harass the Romans at the battlements.

Then the soldiers keeping guard there, supposing that they were no more than those who were seen, immediately seized their arms and one and all sallied forth against them. Whereupon the barbarians began to withdraw to the rear, making it appear to their assailants that they were moving off in retreat because they were thoroughly frightened by them ; and the Romans, being drawn into the pursuit, found themselves at a considerable distance from the fortifications.

Then the men in ambush rose from their hiding-places and, placing themselves behind the pursuers, made it no longer possible for them to enter the city. Furthermore, those who had seemed to be in flight turned about, and thus the Romans now came to be exposed to attack on two sides. Then the barbarians, after destroying these to the last man, assaulted the fortifications.

But the inhabitants of the city, deprived as they were of the support of the soldiers, found themselves in a very difficult situation, yet even so they warded off the assailants as well as the circumstances permitted. And at first they resisted successfully by heating oil and pitch till it was very hot and pouring it down on those who were attacking the wall, and the whole population joined in hurling stones upon them and thus came not very far from repelling the danger.

But finally the barbarians overwhelmed them by the multitude of their missiles and forced them to abandon the battlements, whereupon they placed ladders against the fortifications and so captured the city by storm.

Then they slew all the men immediately, to the number of fifteen thousand, took all the valuables as plunder, and reduced the children and women to slavery. Before this, however, they had spared no age. but both these and the other group, since the time when they fell upon the land of the Romans, had been killing all who fell in their way, young and old alike, so that the whole land inhabited by the Illyrians and Thracians came to be everywhere filled with unburied corpses.

Now they killed their victims, not with sword nor spear, nor in any other accustomed manner, but by planting very firmly in the earth stakes which they had made exceedingly sharp, and seating the poor wretches upon these with great violence, driving the point of the stake between the buttocks and forcing it up into the intestines ; thus did they see fit to destroy them.

These barbarians also had a way of planting four thick stakes very deep in the ground, and after binding the feet and hands of the captives to these they would then assiduously beat them over the head with clubs, killing them like dogs or snakes or any other animal. Others again they would imprison in their huts together with their cattle and sheep—those, of course, which they were utterly unable to take with them to their native haunts —and then they would set fire to the huts without mercy.

Thus did the Sclaveni consistently destroy those who fell in their way. But from this time onward both these and those of the other group, being as it were drunk with the great quantity of blood they had shed, saw fit to make prisoners of some who fell into their hands, and consequently they were taking with them countless thousands of prisoners when they all departed on the homeward way.

JohnnyS wrote: ↑23/04/2026 17:13 Ma to je pojednostavljeno i ravnozemljaški