USA fan page

[Fudo387]

Jadni japanci, htjeli oni sve nesto, ali nikako shvaceni nisu bili.Zato je tu dobri bosnjo da otvori svijetu oci sta se desilo u WW2.

Ispravka krivog navoda, ovdje svima oci pokusava otovoriti nebeCki.

[UnscarD]

Eh da da jos nesto razjasnim posto vidim sta vas tacno boli. Sovjeti su isto tako mogli da odgovore da ne zele da posreduju u toj diplomatskoj incijativi i Japan bi isto reagovao. Potpisao kapitulaciju. Dakle za one od Vas koje brine to da su Sovjeti "nasamarali" Japan, nisu i to niko ne tvrdi. To su uradili Amerikanci.

Sovijeti su racunali na Japanski fanatizam i nadali su se da Japan nece potpisati odmah kapitulacijiu sto bi im dalo vremena da se dokopaju veceg uticaja u post WW2 Japanu. Zbog toga su objavili RAT. U tim poslednjim danima, Japan je bio samo pijun u igri izmedju Sovjeta i SAD-a.
Istorija koja se nama prodaje oko bombi nije moralna i zato je treba prilagoditi necemu sto ce izlgedati prijemcivije "zapadnom" uhu osjetljivom na bilo kakvu nepravdu. Tako nastaju mitovi.

Jadni japanci, htjeli oni sve nesto, ali nikako shvaceni nisu bili.
Zato je tu dobri bosnjo da otvori svijetu oci sta se desilo u WW2.

Obicno ti za prelazak u ironicno/cinicne komentare bez ikakvih argumenata treba vise od 2-3 posta nakon sto argumente prvo ispucas. Sta to sad bi ?

[Avetinho]

Mislim da neki od vas na ovu temu gledaju kroz prizmu dnevne politike i licnog animoziteta da li prema Rusima ili prema komunizmu. To mene naravno ne iznenadjuje. Kada jedan Smithsonian institut nije uspio u svojoj namjeri da 1995 u formi publikovanih radova i javne debate raskrinka nametnute istorijske mitove i pseudo-patriotizam, jer su se na njih okomile tadasnje desnicarske organizacije od kojih su neke instant prekinuli javne donacije ovoj instituciji a druge nastavak saradnje uslovile cenzurom na nivou Gebelsa ili Staljina, naravno da nije realno ocekivati neko realno i nepristrasno rezonovanje ovdje.

Pogledaj se u ogledalo. Ti sanjaris o nekom uticaju Rusa na koncesije SAD Japanu kod kapitulacije. Znas li kako je tekla i zavrsila trka na Berlin nekoliko mjeseci ranije? Samo kompletni ludjaci su se mogli nadati ruskoj milosti pred kraj WWII. Zato je teza nebulozna. Nije Japan cekao mig iz Moskve da ugovara uslove predaje, nego je SAD unistila ratnu masineriju, industriju i infrakstukturu Japana. Da li je posljednja kap (posljednje kapi tojest) bilo bombardovanje H i N, ili je Japan trebalo da se preda ranije, nije bilo do SAD nego do Japana.

Izvini fakat ali ja tebe uopste ne razumijem. Kakva Ruska milost? Ko o tome prica? Ko tvrdi da SAD nisu unistile Japan u svakom aspektu? Upravo to sto ga JESU unistile cini bacene bombe izlisnim a dodatne smrti civila nepotrebnim. Kako to tezu cini nebuloznom?
Naravno da je momenat predaje bio do Japana ali je do SAD-a bilo da li ce baciti ili ne bombe. Odluzili su da bace kako bi demonstrilrali silu Sovjetima. Demonstracija je bila skupa.

Zaboravio si da je SAD bacila bombe prije predaje Japana, a ne poslije. Ocigledno je da je svrha bombe bila trenutni prekid rata, a ne visemjesecno mrcvarenje invazijom. Ideja da se Japan htio predati, ali eto nije, nego se na to odlucio zato sto je dobio objavu od Rusa a ne zbog bombi, je vise nego smijesna.

[jefferson]

Eh da da jos nesto razjasnim posto vidim sta vas tacno boli. Sovjeti su isto tako mogli da odgovore da ne zele da posreduju u toj diplomatskoj incijativi i Japan bi isto reagovao. Potpisao kapitulaciju. Dakle za one od Vas koje brine to da su Sovjeti "nasamarali" Japan, nisu i to niko ne tvrdi. To su uradili Amerikanci.

Sovijeti su racunali na Japanski fanatizam i nadali su se da Japan nece potpisati odmah kapitulacijiu sto bi im dalo vremena da se dokopaju veceg uticaja u post WW2 Japanu. Zbog toga su objavili RAT. U tim poslednjim danima, Japan je bio samo pijun u igri izmedju Sovjeta i SAD-a.
Istorija koja se nama prodaje oko bombi nije moralna i zato je treba prilagoditi necemu sto ce izlgedati prijemcivije "zapadnom" uhu osjetljivom na bilo kakvu nepravdu. Tako nastaju mitovi.

Jadni japanci, htjeli oni sve nesto, ali nikako shvaceni nisu bili.
Zato je tu dobri bosnjo da otvori svijetu oci sta se desilo u WW2.

Obicno ti za prelazak u ironicno/cinicne komentare bez ikakvih argumenata treba vise od 2-3 posta nakon sto argumente prvo ispucas. Sta to sad bi ?

Nista mi ne bi, drugacijeg odgovora na takvu glupost jednostavno nema.

[jefferson]

Mislim da neki od vas na ovu temu gledaju kroz prizmu dnevne politike i licnog animoziteta da li prema Rusima ili prema komunizmu. To mene naravno ne iznenadjuje. Kada jedan Smithsonian institut nije uspio u svojoj namjeri da 1995 u formi publikovanih radova i javne debate raskrinka nametnute istorijske mitove i pseudo-patriotizam, jer su se na njih okomile tadasnje desnicarske organizacije od kojih su neke instant prekinuli javne donacije ovoj instituciji a druge nastavak saradnje uslovile cenzurom na nivou Gebelsa ili Staljina, naravno da nije realno ocekivati neko realno i nepristrasno rezonovanje ovdje.

Pogledaj se u ogledalo. Ti sanjaris o nekom uticaju Rusa na koncesije SAD Japanu kod kapitulacije. Znas li kako je tekla i zavrsila trka na Berlin nekoliko mjeseci ranije? Samo kompletni ludjaci su se mogli nadati ruskoj milosti pred kraj WWII. Zato je teza nebulozna. Nije Japan cekao mig iz Moskve da ugovara uslove predaje, nego je SAD unistila ratnu masineriju, industriju i infrakstukturu Japana. Da li je posljednja kap (posljednje kapi tojest) bilo bombardovanje H i N, ili je Japan trebalo da se preda ranije, nije bilo do SAD nego do Japana.

Izvini fakat ali ja tebe uopste ne razumijem. Kakva Ruska milost? Ko o tome prica? Ko tvrdi da SAD nisu unistile Japan u svakom aspektu? Upravo to sto ga JESU unistile cini bacene bombe izlisnim a dodatne smrti civila nepotrebnim. Kako to tezu cini nebuloznom?
Naravno da je momenat predaje bio do Japana ali je do SAD-a bilo da li ce baciti ili ne bombe. Odluzili su da bace kako bi demonstrilrali silu Sovjetima. Demonstracija je bila skupa.

Mislim da su amerikanci prije svega brinuli o svojim vojnicima, pa onda o japancima.

[L u c i f e r]

Nejma istoricara do bosnje hvorumasa, masala...
Sve ti taj znade.
I ko je koga, i zasto, i s koje strane...
A glavni mu je argument vlastito misljenje...

[General War]

Eh da da jos nesto razjasnim posto vidim sta vas tacno boli. Sovjeti su isto tako mogli da odgovore da ne zele da posreduju u toj diplomatskoj incijativi i Japan bi isto reagovao. Potpisao kapitulaciju. Dakle za one od Vas koje brine to da su Sovjeti "nasamarali" Japan, nisu i to niko ne tvrdi. To su uradili Amerikanci.

Sovijeti su racunali na Japanski fanatizam i nadali su se da Japan nece potpisati odmah kapitulacijiu sto bi im dalo vremena da se dokopaju veceg uticaja u post WW2 Japanu. Zbog toga su objavili RAT. U tim poslednjim danima, Japan je bio samo pijun u igri izmedju Sovjeta i SAD-a.
Istorija koja se nama prodaje oko bombi nije moralna i zato je treba prilagoditi necemu sto ce izlgedati prijemcivije "zapadnom" uhu osjetljivom na bilo kakvu nepravdu. Tako nastaju mitovi.

jasta su se sovjeti natezali sa amerima preko japana kao i dan danas ..,i tako sovjeti namakli Kurilska ostrva koja su cisto japanska teritorija, a rusi ih i dan danas drze, evo sad i Ukrajina..tipicna "drste lopova" ...mdaaa mitovi.

[Avetinho]

Eh da da jos nesto razjasnim posto vidim sta vas tacno boli. Sovjeti su isto tako mogli da odgovore da ne zele da posreduju u toj diplomatskoj incijativi i Japan bi isto reagovao. Potpisao kapitulaciju. Dakle za one od Vas koje brine to da su Sovjeti "nasamarali" Japan, nisu i to niko ne tvrdi. To su uradili Amerikanci.

Sovijeti su racunali na Japanski fanatizam i nadali su se da Japan nece potpisati odmah kapitulacijiu sto bi im dalo vremena da se dokopaju veceg uticaja u post WW2 Japanu. Zbog toga su objavili RAT. U tim poslednjim danima, Japan je bio samo pijun u igri izmedju Sovjeta i SAD-a.
Istorija koja se nama prodaje oko bombi nije moralna i zato je treba prilagoditi necemu sto ce izlgedati prijemcivije "zapadnom" uhu osjetljivom na bilo kakvu nepravdu. Tako nastaju mitovi.

jasta su se sovjeti natezali sa amerima preko japana kao i dan danas ..,i tako sovjeti namakli Kurilska ostrva koja su cisto japanska teritorija, a rusi ih i dan danas drze, evo sad i Ukrajina..tipicna "drste lopova" ...mdaaa mitovi.

A jesi vidio podmetanja noge, kaze -- uvazeni profesor iz Kalifornije roni plac po neduznim Japancima.

Tako je isto bio uvazeni general iz Kanade, koji je imao odlicnu teoriju ko je bombardovao Sarajevo, pa imamo uvazenog doktora od Zenice ili odakle li je cija doktorska disertacija obradjuje dizanje kamenih blokova frulicama i koji tvrdi da su brda oko Viskog svemirski generatori energije, pa imamo metar onog ostalog polusvijeta sa doktorskim titulama koji godinama trubi o zgradama broj sedam i krilima aviona oko Pentagona.

I tako na mala vrata nastaju mitovi, a bosnje "historicari", geoanaliticari i sahisti gutaju li gutaju.

[madner]

Do trenutka kada Japan kapitulira, Japan je u ratu sa SADom. To da su mogli koristiti kristalnu kuglu, te da su trebali malo slabije udarati je potpuno deplasirano. Niko Japanu nije branio da kapitulira ranije, vojno, mogli su komotno.

[Avetinho]

Do trenutka kada Japan kapitulira, Japan je u ratu sa SADom. To da su mogli koristiti kristalnu kuglu, te da su trebali malo slabije udarati je potpuno deplasirano. Niko Japanu nije branio da kapitulira ranije, vojno, mogli su komotno.

Sreca njihova da Crna Gora nije imala A-bomb.

[Grover]

Family of Sladjana Vidovic, 16-Year-Old Who Committed Suicide, Suing Mentor Schools



On October 2, 2008, 16-year-old Sladjana Vidovic was found by her sister. Vidovic was dead, having committed suicide by hanging herself out of her bedroom window.

In her suicide note, the Bosnian native said that she was constantly bullied at school.

A lawsuit recently filed by her family claims that officials at Mentor Schools ignored repeated warnings and complaints about the bullying that led the teen to take her own life.

According to the AP:

The lawsuit says Sladjana Vidovic was verbally harassed and on one occasion was pushed down a set of stairs at Mentor High School, about 20 miles northeast of Cleveland.

The family's attorney, Kenneth Myers, says Vidovic, whose parents are from Croatia, was teased about her heritage and accent. He said Vidovic became depressed over the bullying and hanged herself from her bedroom window on Oct. 2, 2008.

Mentor, Ohio, is largely white and upper middle class. It’s listed as one of the “Top 100 places to live in the United States.” Its attraction for immigrants and others proves to be a deadly illusion. The Vidovics swap the perils of war in Bosnia and try to fit into this culture of conformity. Their daughter Sladjana endures constant bullying from the 8th grade on. Kids make fun of her name, her Croatian accent, her clothes and her perceived queerness. She suffers nightly death threats and daily physical abuse. The Vidovics seek help from the school. The principal, counselors, nurses, security guards, and police all systematically fail to stop the bullying or create a safer environment. No abuser is held accountable. Sladjana hangs herself at 16. Another victim of bullying, Eric Mohat, doesn’t tell his parents of the daily physical abuse, being called “fag” and “queer” at school. Eric is finally taunted into killing himself at 17.

The Vidovics and Mohats both sue the school district, which pursues a policy of denial, destroys evidence, and willfully refuses to address bullying at all. At its heart, the documentary poses a harrowing question: What tragedies will some endure to maintain the status quo, and what risks must we take to reclaim the future of a community in conflict?"

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-hea ... or-schools

http://rt.com/shows/documentary/212679- ... -bullying/

[celava_dlaka]

Zato u rusiji cvece cveta, jel tako grover

[Avetinho]

Da bre, a i Kosovo boli, boliiii.

[JohnnyS]

Istini za volju, više smisla imaju groverovi upisi nego teorije uglednog japanskog profesora.

[Grover]

Jade Helm, U.S. Military Exercise: Troops To “Operate Undetected Amongst Civilian Population”



Operation Jade Helm: Special Forces ‘Realistic Military Training’ In Seven Southwestern States Prompts Martial Law Fears


A key component of the controversial Jade Helm military exercise set to take part in nine U.S. states this summer will involve soldiers operating “undetected amongst civilian populations,” to see if they can infiltrate without being noticed.

The “realistic” military training exercise, which will involve the Green Berets, Navy Seals, and the 82nd Airborne Division, is set to take place from July 15-Sepember 15, but has prompted concerns after Texas and Utah were labeled “hostile” territory in documents related to the exercise.

A Houston Chronicle report reveals that soldiers will attempt to blend in with the local population in an effort to test the effectiveness of infiltration techniques. Residents will be advised to report “suspicious activity” during the exercise.



“They’re going to set up cells of people and test how well they’re able to move around without getting too noticed in the community,” said Roy Boyd, chief deputy with the Victoria County Sheriff’s Office. “They’re testing their abilities to basically blend in with the local environment and not stand out and blow their cover.”

By directly involving unwitting members of the local population, this aspect of the drill contradicts theArmy’s assertion that, “The public can expect nothing much different from their day-to-day activities since much of exercise will be conducted in remote areas.”

Jim Stewart, chief deputy with the Brazos County Sheriff’s Office, told the Chronicle that the designation of Texas as “hostile territory” was merely a way of setting up a role playing exercise under which soldiers operate behind enemy lines.

The Army has failed to specifically address why Texas, Utah and a pocket of southern California were labeled as hostile territories in training documents for the exercise, merely insisting that the drill is designed to prepare troops for foreign occupations and has nothing to do with preparations for martial law.

No less than 17 different Texas cities will see an Army presence as part of the exercise, which will involve, “participants in civilian dress and civilian vehicles, military aircraft, low-altitude airdrops of personnel and weapons with blank rounds, to avert fearful reactions”.

The cities are Bastrop/Smithville, Big Spring, Caddo Lake, Caldwell, Christoval, College Station, Dell City, Eldorado, Goliad, Junction, Leakey, Menard, Mountain Home, San Angelo, San Antonio and Victoria.

News outlets, primarily Infowars, who questioned the nature of the exercise have come under fire from the Army and other mainstream media outlets, with the Chronicle characterizing the reaction as an example of, “ultra-right-wing fears of a government takeover in the Lone Star State”.

Despite assurances that the training is to prepare troops for overseas missions, Army documents in the past have made clear that plans for martial law are in place for within the Continental United States (CONUS).

A leaked 2012 US Army Military Police training manual, entitled “Civil Disturbance Operations,” described how soldiers would be ordered to confiscate firearms and kill American “dissidents.” The manual also revealed that prisoners would be detained in temporary internment camps and “re-educated” to gain a new appreciation of “U.S. policies,” in accordance with U.S. Army FM 3-19.40 Internment/Resettlement Operations.

Jade Helm has also drawn comparisons to a 2012 scenario outlined by retired Army colonel Kevin Benson, in which the U.S. Military is used to crush an insurgent rebellion overseen by Tea Party militia members who take over the city of Darlington, South Carolina.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/jade-helm- ... on/5438890

[agnostic_front]

Нови Мексико је срце Србије!!!

[Avetinho]

Boooli Koooosovo, booooli.

[Grover]

Army Manual Outlines Plan To Kill Rioters, Demonstrators In America



“Warning shots will not be fired”

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Friday, July 6, 2012

A newly leaked US Army Military Police training manual for “Civil Disturbance Operations” outlines how military assets are to be used domestically to quell riots, confiscate firearms and even kill Americans on U.S. soil during mass civil unrest.

The document (PDF: Link), which is dated 2006 and was used for a self-learning course at the U.S. Army Military Police School at Fort McClellan, makes it clear that the operations described in the manual apply to both “CONUS and OCONUS,” meaning inside the Continental United States and outside the Continental United States.



The document outlines how military assets will be used to “help local and state authorities to restore and maintain law and order” in the event of mass riots, civil unrest or a declaration of martial law.

The primary function of military assets will be focused around, “breaking up unauthorized gatherings and by patrolling the disturbance area to prevent the commission of lawless acts,” states the document, adding, “during operations to restore order, military forces may present a show of force, establish roadblocks, break up crowds, employ crowd control agents, patrol, serve as security forces or reserves, and perform other operations as required.”

The manual also describes how prisoners will be processed through temporary internment camps under the guidance of U.S. Army FM 3-19.40 Internment/Resettlement Operations, which as we reported earlier this year, outlines how internees would be “re-educated” into developing an “appreciation of U.S. policies” while detained in prison camps inside the United States.

On page 20 of the manual, rules regarding the use of “deadly force” in confronting “dissidents” are made disturbingly clear with the directive that a, “Warning shot will not be fired.”

The manual includes lists of weapons to be used against “rioters” or “demonstrators,” including “antiriot grenades.” It also advises troops to carry their guns in the “safe port arms” stance, a psychological tactic aimed at “making a show of force before rioters.” Non-lethal weapons and water cannons are also included.

The document also explains how the military will be involved in spying on and gathering information on dissidents to identify the, “Existence of persons, groups, or organizations which have distinctively threatened or are creating disturbances.”

“Crowd control agents” will also be deployed for the purpose of “reducing resistance,” states the manual, which also implies that troops will be used to confiscate firearms.

“Restrictions on the sale, transfer, and possession of sensitive material such as gasoline, firearms, ammunition, and explosives will help control forces in minimizing certain forms of violence,” states the document on page 40.

“Consideration may be given to evacuating sensitive items, such as weapons from stores,” the manual also states on page 27.

A d v e r t i s e m e n t
{openx:74}

The document emphasizes how troops should make every effort, “to avoid appearing as an alien invading force and to present the image of a restrained and well-disciplined force whose sole purpose is to help to restore law and order with a minimum loss of life and property.”

This 115 page manual represents a shocking new insight into how the U.S. military will be used domestically to violently quell unrest in the aftermath of a total economic collapse or other national emergency.

Preparations for using troops to deal with mass civil unrest on U.S. soil have been in the works for years.

Back in 2008, U.S. troops returning from Iraq were earmarked for “homeland patrols” with one of their roles including helping with “civil unrest and crowd control”.

In December 2008, the Washington Post reported on plans to station 20,000 more U.S. troops inside America for purposes of “domestic security” from September 2011 onwards, an expansion of Northcom’s militarization of the country in preparation for potential civil unrest following a total economic collapse or a mass terror attack.

A report produced that same year by the U.S. Army War College’s Strategic Institute warned that the United States may experience massive civil unrest in the wake of a series of crises which it termed “strategic shock.”

“Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security,” stated the report, authored by [Ret.] Lt. Col. Nathan Freir, adding that the military may be needed to quell “purposeful domestic resistance”.

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was established under the pretext of a “mass exodus” of illegal aliens crossing the Mexican/US border.

During the Iran-Contra hearings in 1987, however, it was revealed that the program was a secretive “scenario and drill” developed by the federal government to suspend the Constitution, declare martial law, assign military commanders to take over state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens determined by the government to be “national security threats.”

With many Americans now becoming “pre-revolutionary” as a result of their fury at the Obama administration and equally unpopular lawmakers in Washington, potential civil unrest could spring not just from a poverty-stricken underclass, but also the shrinking middle class.

Perhaps that’s why the Department of Homeland Security is increasingly focusing its anti-terror apparatus on white middle class Americans, portraying them as domestic terrorists in a series of PSA videos. In addition, ‘Occupy’ protesters are also now being characterized as terrorists.

http://www.infowars.com/army-manual-out ... n-america/

[Grover]

Shocking Dashcam Footage Shows Arizona Cop Run Over Suspect



Shocking police dashcam footage has emerged showing an Arizona cop speeding to intentionally ram into an armed alleged thief in what police claim was a supposed bid to capture him.

The incident was recorded February 19 on the dashcam of two Marana police cars that were following the suspect, Mario Valencia.



According to Marana police, Valencia was fleeing from a Walmart where he had allegedly stolen a rifle. He had already been intercepted by police near a post office, where he pointed the rifle at his head multiple times and threatened suicide before firing the gun in another direction and fleeing.

In the two videos, Mario Valencia is captured walking along a street in Marana, northwest of Tucson, while carrying a rifle that he points fires into the air.

A police officer in one of the patrol cars remarks: ‘One round just went out. He’s definitely loaded.’ He then tells his colleague, Officer Michael Rapiejko, in the other vehicle: “Unit right there just Stand off, Stand off the gun is loaded’ then he repeats himself ‘Unit on cartera park stay off.’ Seconds later Officer Michael Rapiejko’s vehicle can be heard and seen accelerating past. Seconds later, his vehicle goes up on the curb and smashes into the suspect’s body, sending him flying into the air.

The other officer can be heard shouting in shock: ‘Oh! Jesus Christ! Man down.’

“Everything in the video seems to point towards an obvious excessive use of force. It is miraculous that my client isn’t dead,” said attorney Michelle Cohen-Metzger.

According to KOLD, Police Chief Terry Rozema said that Rapiejko’s move actually saved the suspect’s life. Valencia was hospitalized for two days before being charged with aggravated assault on a police officer with a deadly weapon, discharging a firearm inside the city limits, and shoplifting involving a firearm.

Valencia was taken to University of Arizona Medical Center in serious condition. He stayed there two days before being booked into jail. Police were investigating whether Valencia was connected to three earlier incidents in Tucson.

http://revolution-news.com/shocking-das ... r-suspect/

[UnscarD]

Nejma istoricara do bosnje hvorumasa, masala...
Sve ti taj znade.
I ko je koga, i zasto, i s koje strane...
A glavni mu je argument vlastito misljenje...

Naravno. Sta treba da mi bude argument, mainstream istorija iz mainstrem izvora servirana u pauzi izmedju nekih resturator i nekih kamiondzija na tzv. komediji od History kanala? Ne hvala. Da bi potpuno shvatio mehanizme po kojima se ti mitovi (jer oni upravo to jesu) kreiraju, potrebno je da budes upoznat sa radovima Waltera Lipmana i Edwarda Berneya a posto sa istima nisi upoznat, mogu da razumijem otkud takav stav. Vjeruj u sta god zelis. Sto se mene tice, ova teza ima prilicno kredibiliteta i nadao sam se da ce neko ovdje da pruzi neki solidan kontra argument pa ce mozda pomenuti Japanskog ambasadora u Moskvi Naotake Sato-a i njegove dokumente u kojima upozorava Japanske zvanicnike da od sporazuma sa Sovjetima nema nista, ili da ce neko pomenuti koncept "Kokutai" i negirati njegovu vaznost i uticaj na vojne odluke Japana u tim poslednjim danima ali avaj. Sve sto sam dobio je gomila plitkih komentara bez ikakvih argumentata osim : gluposti i ja u to ne vjerujem. Da neko u nesto vjeruje ili ne vjeruje je naravno pravo svakoga pojedinacno, no to nema nista sa argumentovanom raspravom. Ali do mene je, imam ja taj obicaj da precjenim sugovornike. Hajde, ako nista, culi ste za nova tumacenja, neko je mozda nesto novo naucio, neko je procitao interesantan clanak a ja sam se kao i obicno, lijepo zabavio. Uzivajte.

[madner]

Dobio si najkonkretniji moguci argument, Japan je mogao i morao ranije kapitulirati ali nije. Zasto krivis USA za Japanske akcije?

[UnscarD]

Dobio si najkonkretniji moguci argument, Japan je mogao i morao ranije kapitulirati ali nije. Zasto krivis USA za Japanske akcije?

Kakav je to argument? Ukoliko ne postoji krivnja za necije akcije tokom ratnog stanja, zasto onda imamo razne konvencije i ratne tribunale koji ponasanje unutar ratnog stanja regulisu? To sto se Japan nije predao i sto je i dalje bilo ratno stanje ne znaci da su USA izuzeti iz odgovornosti za bilo koju akciju koju urade.
Konkretno u ovome slucaju oko atomskih bombi, krivim USA iz ociglednih razloga. Zbrisali su 2 grada puna civila direktno i onda uzrokovali nevidjene patnje generacijama koje su dosle. Potpuno nepotrebno jer bi i bez bacenih bombi Japan kapitulirao a misljenje visopozicioniranih USA zvanicnika oko ove situacije sam postao par strana ranije. Cak i da se uzme u obizr to da je prva bomba imala smisla (a nije) druga bacena 3 dana kasnije kada jos ni vijesti o steti nisu stigle do vojnog vrha Japana, nema bas nikakvo opravdanje. Kako bi ti opravdao evo tu drugu bombu? Zasto im nije dato 10-15 dana ? Znas zasto? Zato sto je bilo neophodno testirati efekte PLUTONIJUMSKE bombe jer su URANIJUMSKU vec testirali pa su pozurili da preduprijede kapitulaciju Japana. Testiranje tako strasnog novog oruzja na neduznim civilima je ratni zlocin a buduci da su kao posljedicu, stravisnu cijenu platile i generacije koje dolaze (cak i dan danas) to je zlocin protiv covjecnosti.

[madner]

Dobio si najkonkretniji moguci argument, Japan je mogao i morao ranije kapitulirati ali nije. Zasto krivis USA za Japanske akcije?

Kakav je to argument? Ukoliko ne postoji krivnja za necije akcije tokom ratnog stanja, zasto onda imamo razne konvencije i ratne tribunale koji ponasanje unutar ratnog stanja regulisu? To sto se Japan nije predao i sto je i dalje bilo ratno stanje ne znaci da su USA izuzeti iz odgovornosti za bilo koju akciju koju urade.
Konkretno u ovome slucaju oko atomskih bombi, krivim USA iz ociglednih razloga. Zbrisali su 2 grada puna civila direktno i onda uzrokovali nevidjene patnje generacijama koje su dosle. Potpuno nepotrebno jer bi i bez bacenih bombi Japan kapitulirao a misljenje visopozicioniranih USA zvanicnika oko ove situacije sam postao par strana ranije. Cak i da se uzme u obizr to da je prva bomba imala smisla (a nije) druga bacena 3 dana kasnije kada jos ni vijesti o steti nisu stigle do Japana, nema bas nikakvo opravdanje.

Zato sto ovo uporno ponavljas. Napravio si konstrukciju po kojoj je USA trebala prestati napadati naciju s kojom ratuje, koja nije prihvatila uslove za kapitulaciju koju si postavljeni u Potsdamu. Dok Japan ne kapitulira, sasvim je logicno da USA koristi svoje vojne kapacitete kako bi porazila protivnika.

Hiroschima i Nagasaki su bili bitni vojni ciljevi, ako i vecina drugih gradova koji su bombadovani. Pa nije isao golub pismonosa da obavjesti o steti. Japan nije kapitulirao poslje prve bombe, jeste poslje druge.

[UnscarD]

Nisam ja napravio nikakvu konstrukciju nego su to cinjenice. Imas vrh USA vojske koji je bio protiv bombe jer su znali da je pitanje dana kapitulacija Japana. Imas politicki vrh unutar USA koji je znao da se za kapitulaciju Japana samo ceka Sovjetski odgovor. Citati su ti na stranama ranije. Dakle ne postoji nikakva potreba da se bombe bace, pogotovo ne na gradove pune civila. Hiroshima i Nagasaki su imali vojne mete ali su svi znali da ce biti zbrisani i svi civili koji nisu i ne mogu biti meta. Odnosno mogu, ali to je onda ratni zlocin.
Ne znam kako ne moze da razumijes ocigledno. Jesu u ratu ali to ne znaci da je sve dozvoljeno. Da li negiras to da je unutar USA krugova odgovornih za odluku da se bombe bace postojala svijest da ce ako to urade biti zbrisani gradovi puni civila? Ukoliko je postojala ta svijest (a naravno da jeste jer bombe su testirane ranije i znao se njihov ucinak - cak i onaj o radijaciji) i ako uz to dodamo cinjenicu da su svi znali da je Japan pred predajom, kako je moguce opravdati bacene bombe i to u razmaku od svega tri dana? Nema i ne moze biti opravdanja za to.

[AleksoMKD]

Ljudi, ko god da je prvi napravio atomske bombe, upotrebio bi ih bez da trepne u WW2.